The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 72 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Dyno Run Mis-Information Re: <E46> M Variable Differential Lock Time for F rotors and pads - thinking Zimmerman (TMS) Re: SS brake lines Re: SS brake lines Re: SS brake lines Re: SS brake lines Re: SS brake lines Re: SS brake lines <E36> M52 air pump American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:51:20 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Dyno Run Mis-Information Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't know. Compare to test specs, but altitude and temperature play a large role. Its best to compare before and after for the mods. Gary Derian --- John Kjos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Gary, > > Thanks. I just got a G2. Haven't had a chance to use > it yet, but I have it > at least. What 0-60 and 1/4 mile times should I > expect? I faintly recall a > 0-60 (stock) time of 5.7 secs. Sound right? > > John Kjos > '99 540i/6: Dinan S > '01 525iTa: Stock > Portland, OR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E46> M Variable Differential Lock Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes but a clutch type diff will prohibit minor corrections to one wheel slip conditions. I think it just works better for non track use. The oil chambers that apply the clutches have bleed ports. Restricting that port can increase the lockup action of the diff. Gary Derian --- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > No, that's not it. The M5 has the same ABS/DSC > system as the M3, and it has > a conventional Salisbury LSD. > > It's not a new concept with BMW. With a couple of > minor tweaks, it's the > same diff that was installed in the rear of the E30 > 325iX. > > I can't tell you why they chose to use it, but the > reason it's not all that > good is because of it's delayed action. It won't > begin to lock up until one > wheel begins to spin, and it doesn't have enough > "spring" pressure to lock > it up enough. > > A Salisbury style diff, or Quaife, or Torsen, will > lock up "automatically" > on throttle input, regardless of wheel speed. > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > The "looseness" permits the traction control, > stability control, etc. and > > ABS to work better. > > Gary Derian > > > > > > > > O.k. now I'm really curious--why is this diff > not very good? (lack of > > > performance or reliability?) Why do you suppose > BMW chose it over the > > > "clutch pack" type for this application? Can > you give me a quick "pros > > > and cons" on diffs? > > > Ken Koch > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:03:24 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Time for F rotors and pads - thinking Zimmerman (TMS) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Currently running ATE Power Disc on 325 calipers/rotors. I liked them fine but I'd like to try something new. Turner has Zimmerman crossdrilled front rotors. I was thinking - match these with PBR (non-metal) pads (for longer rotor life). Street braking habits are late and hard, with a few autocrosses per year. Dust is not a big concern, but rotor life is. Suggestions? Phil 1995 325 Ti Club Sport ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:31:48 -0600 From: "Scott Staewen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A question for those in the know: what about teflon coated SS lines for street cars? How do maintenance and safety for these lines compare to stock lines and uncoated SS, somewhere in the middle? I wouldn't mind a bit firmer pedal feel myself... rss _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage � 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:01:04 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The factory lines are quite good, with very durable construction. There is a VERY thick mesh-reinforced hose with a rather thick outer dust boot (hose w/in a hose). The factory lines are also bigger around with a considerably thicker wall than the aftermarket lines. I had a front brake line get a bubble in it which turned out to be only the dust boot. I cut the line open to see & they are very substantial.....you would really have to have something catastrophic for the factory lines to fail, I think. Since I had already ordered the braided lines as replacements, that's what I went with. Were I to do it again, I would go with the factory lines (this is on a track car, BTW), as I really don't see any advantages to the braided lines. People say that they provide a stiffer pedal, but I failed to notice this & after looking at the factory lines could see that they are even possibly less compliant than the aftermarket stuff. Couple of notes about braided lines: The ones made in the US will have standard size fittings. I do like the fact that the fittings rotate. The braided lines are probably better at preventing damage due to debris & racers commonly use them. I bet most racers don't keep them in very long though..... And about M3's being overkill on the street.....any BMW is overkill on the street. I really think that any M3 is going to have more brakes than you ever need on the street (or track for that matter), meaning that a street car with braided lines & floating rotors is really unnecessary......unless you want that stuff because you want it, which no less valid a reason for getting this stuff--basically the same reason as owning a BMW to drive to work & back. Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Scott Staewen > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:32 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [UUC] SS brake lines > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > A question for those in the know: what about teflon coated SS > lines for > street cars? How do maintenance and safety for these lines > compare to stock > lines and uncoated SS, somewhere in the middle? I wouldn't > mind a bit firmer > pedal feel myself... > rss > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans > to choose from! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > ______________________________________________________________ > ____________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of > the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:03:53 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > SS lines do have one advantage for track use. The > caliper can become very hot and cause a rubber line to > fail at the caliper fitting. SS/Teflon lines have > much high heat resistance. Its a problem on Mustangs. > Perhaps not a BMW problem. > > Gary Derian Hehe, funny anecdote about this. We're doing a Mustang Cobra skizzle at CMP this weekend & the driver packet has something about this. It follows up a statement like, "while Mustangs are very well designed cars & designed for this kind of, blah, blah." With, "factory lines must be replaced with stainless lines to prevent the common failure of the front brake lines." Seems kinda contradictory.....thanks for giving me a laugh Gary. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:44:06 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Exactly! Floating rotors and braided lines won't make you stop any shorter, and if you're cooking your M3 brakes on the street, you're driving like an idiot and should be at the track, or possibly institutionalized. I'm upgrading to that stuff because it's more fun that replacing stock with stock. And, of course, to support the economy! > And about M3's being overkill on the street.....any BMW is overkill on the > street. I really think that any M3 is going to have more brakes than you > ever need on the street (or track for that matter), meaning that a street > car with braided lines & floating rotors is really unnecessary......unless > you want that stuff because you want it, which no less valid a reason for > getting this stuff--basically the same reason as owning a BMW to drive to > work & back. > > Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:46:16 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SS lines do have one advantage for track use. The caliper can become very hot and cause a rubber line to fail at the caliper fitting. SS/Teflon lines have much high heat resistance. Its a problem on Mustangs. Perhaps not a BMW problem. Gary Derian --- "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > went with. Were I to do it again, I would go with > the factory lines (this > is on a track car, BTW), as I really don't see any > advantages to the braided > lines. People say that they provide a stiffer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:13:53 -0800 From: "JSN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: SS brake lines Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It exists in BMWs. SS lines solved heat swelling issues on my M5 brake equipped E34 535i. The brake engagement point would change lap to lap as the lines got hot and swelled. With SS lines, no more swell and the brake engagement became very predictable. Please, no helpful comments about tracking a car that heavy. :) I used Earl's brand teflon covered SS lines from BMP Design. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] SS brake lines > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > SS lines do have one advantage for track use. The > caliper can become very hot and cause a rubber line to > fail at the caliper fitting. SS/Teflon lines have > much high heat resistance. Its a problem on Mustangs. > Perhaps not a BMW problem. > > Gary Derian > > --- "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > went with. Were I to do it again, I would go with > > the factory lines (this > > is on a track car, BTW), as I really don't see any > > advantages to the braided > > lines. People say that they provide a stiffer > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:05:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: <E36> M52 air pump Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I replaced my air pump over the weekend (original had died); did the valve too. The new pump makes next to no noise at all, where the original really screamed. Not that I necessarily mind less noise, but I am rather curious as to what is "normal". Are M52 air pumps generally as loud as was the OE on my car, or was that sucker (pun intended) bad all along? - Kevin Jay '96 328is, red/tan, new air pump, whisper quiet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:14:22 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'UUCDigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It's a pretty sad day when American cars are typically reported as more reliable than anything......Funny enough, all of Saab & Volvo's cars scored well (my roommate gets CR), & they're euro marques owned by 'Murican companies. I like the part about an 8 year old Lexus has fewer reported problems than a new 7 series. I wonder what kind of a nightmare those'll be in 8 years!!!! I actually thought about this on Sunday. The moonroof on my roommate's G20 shattered & Tim Ng picked one up from a pull-a-part. We had the old one out & new one within 20 minutes. 6 bolts & 2 plastic covers. BMW would never do anything so easily or intuitively...... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sv/20040309/tc_sv/uscarstopeu ropeaninreliability Lee 88 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:33:32 -0500 From: "Rob Levinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---- Original Message ---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [UUC] American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT > >It's a pretty sad day when American cars are typically reported as >more reliable than anything. There has never been a really good reason for American-made cars to be less reliable other than economics. Quality level X = production cost Y + warranty cost Z. X factored into total marketing scheme was reasonably lower for many years, and the reaction to adjust the formula (accounting for ground-level anti-marketing from disgruntled customers sitting in service area waiting rooms) to bring X higher has undoubtedly been a slow and difficult process. But the domestics are businesses, and when it makes sense to spend money to make money, common sense dictates that they will eventually spend the money. If quality sells as well as cupholders, then quality will be installed as standard equipment. Why this has taken so long (especially considering the huge rush of sales that Buick enjoyed from the textbook late-'80s LeSabre high quality review) is partly a mystery, partly testament to the ovewhelming inertia of large corporations. .....Funny enough, all of Saab & Volvo's cars >scored >well (my roommate gets CR), & they're euro marques owned by 'Murican >companies. Even more funny is that new Saabs are powered by a version of GM's Ecotec engine as found in the Saturns, Sunfire, and new Cobalt. Nothing particularly wrong with that engine (especially considering the 3 forms of forced induction GM is playing with), but it is curious how much Saab is (or is not) really left in Saab. >I like the part about an 8 year old Lexus has fewer reported problems >than a >new 7 series. I wonder what kind of a nightmare those'll be in 8 >years!!!! I predict huge nightmares. They've become disposable bundles of complexity, much like digital cameras. The 8 year old Lexus is remarkably simple in comparison, so by definition will have fewer problems. Less parts = less problem potential. The new car experience is being forced more and more into leasing. You know what your expenses are, you've got no post-warranty mess or resale value to worry about, and (from the manufacturer's perspective) the guy down the line who wouldn't be buying a new car anyway gets to worry about it. - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:59:40 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > There has never been a really good reason for American-made cars to > be less reliable other than economics. Quality level X = production Two words: cost cutting. I know they're still doing it. > > Even more funny is that new Saabs are powered by a version of GM's > Ecotec engine as found in the Saturns, Sunfire, and new Cobalt. > Nothing particularly wrong with that engine (especially considering > the 3 forms of forced induction GM is playing with), but it is > curious how much Saab is (or is not) really left in Saab. My 01 9-3 is a lot less "Saab" than Saabs of yore. But it's heart is still the same 2.0L turbo charged descendant of the original 99 turbo. There was a lot of pontificating over on Saab lists about the new motors. One thing that was always nice about the Saab engines is that they were pretty over-specced, allowing huge amounts of boost to be safely run (well, aside from the trannies anyway). It's thought that the new engines won't be so good. I think GM thinks it's a Saab if the ignition is between the seats. > > I predict huge nightmares. They've become disposable bundles of > complexity, much like digital cameras. The 8 year old Lexus is > remarkably simple in comparison, so by definition will have fewer > problems. Less parts = less problem potential. > > The new car experience is being forced more and more into leasing. > You know what your expenses are, you've got no post-warranty mess or > resale value to worry about, and (from the manufacturer's > perspective) the guy down the line who wouldn't be buying a new car > anyway gets to worry about it. I think that there's something to this. I bet the auto-makers would like nothing more than to see that automobile be come a disposable consumer good. I know that certain big 3 companies have gone back to using steel that will actually rust to pieces again rather than the super high-quality (albeit much more expensive) stuff used in the late 80s/early 90s. I can see execs at, say Ford saying, "all these cars that last are killing sales." About the 8 yr old Lexus, in it's defense, it's probably also much more reliable than a comparable 8 yr old BMW. It is what they're known for after all. > > - Rob Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:41:02 -0500 (EST) From: Joel Gallun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Rob Levinson wrote: > The new car experience is being forced more and more into leasing. I wonder what the economics of leasing are when the residual values approach zero? joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:21:11 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: American cars more reliable????? kinda, slightly OT Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Mar 9, 2004, at 9:33 AM, Rob Levinson wrote: > But the domestics are businesses, and when it makes sense to spend > money to make money, common sense dictates that they will eventually > spend the money. If quality sells as well as cupholders, then > quality will be installed as standard equipment. Why this has taken > so long (especially considering the huge rush of sales that Buick > enjoyed from the textbook late-'80s LeSabre high quality review) is > partly a mystery, partly testament to the ovewhelming inertia of > large corporations. A large part of why it's taken so long is misplaced patriotism. "Buy American, even if it sucks." Where is the incentive for the auto makers to improve their products if people are going to buy them anyway? - Mark ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
