The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 79 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: distilled water or not? Re: Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Re: Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Wanted: 16 x 9 Navigation screen head unit <FS> Parts Microfiche - get 'em while they're hot!
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:55:12 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Some people wash their cars with bottled water, too. All a matter of how obsessive you want to be. I doubt there's a shred of evidence that using distilled water in your cooling system will extend engine life or performance in any measurable way. It just sounds good, like changing your oil every 3,000 miles. Reed/Seattle > > Minerals in tap water will leave deposits in your engine. Distilled water > is cheap and won't leave anything unwanted behind. It's well worth the > extra $2 and the trip to the grocery store. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:19:40 -0500 From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> We're on well and septic here. We've invested thousands of dollars in filtration and purifying equipment to try and keep the plumbing alive. I still won't use the water in any of the cars. I used bottled water from the supermarket. If the mineral content of the water, even after filtration, can clog up shower heads and spigot screens, imagine what it can do to the tiny channels in the radiator and heater core.... Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > Some people wash their cars with bottled water, too. All a matter of how > obsessive you want to be. I doubt there's a shred of evidence that using > distilled water in your cooling system will extend engine life or > performance in any measurable way. It just sounds good, like > changing your > oil every 3,000 miles. > > Reed/Seattle > > > > > Minerals in tap water will leave deposits in your engine. > Distilled water > > is cheap and won't leave anything unwanted behind. It's well worth the > > extra $2 and the trip to the grocery store. > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.598 / Virus Database: 380 - Release Date: 2/28/2004 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:54:26 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, that's different! I was assuming your tap water was decent. If your water is so bad it's destroying your plumbing, I'd agree that bottled water in the bimmer is a good idea. As far as I can tell our Seattle water hasn't reached that stage, yet. Reed/Seattle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > We're on well and septic here. We've invested thousands of dollars in > filtration and purifying equipment to try and keep the plumbing alive. > > I still won't use the water in any of the cars. I used bottled water from > the supermarket. > > If the mineral content of the water, even after filtration, can clog up > shower heads and spigot screens, imagine what it can do to the tiny channels > in the radiator and heater core.... > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:12:35 -0500 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There is nothing wrong with my city water in Detroit, but it still has plenty of minerals and whatnot in it that I'd prefer to keep out of my cooling system, especially if it's as easy and cheap as a trip to get distilled water from the grocery store. It's also only once every couple of years - much different than spending $35 on an unnecessary oil change every month or two. Chris B. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Reed Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, that's different! I was assuming your tap water was decent. If your water is so bad it's destroying your plumbing, I'd agree that bottled water in the bimmer is a good idea. As far as I can tell our Seattle water hasn't reached that stage, yet. Reed/Seattle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:45:11 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reed et al. Distilled water no matter what, IMHO. No matter how 'good' your tap water is, it will have chlorine, flouride, and/or other things you really don't want interacting with your cooling system components, anti-freeze, Water Wetter, whatever. -Jay ***** > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Well, that's different! I was assuming your tap water was decent. If your > water is so bad it's destroying your plumbing, I'd agree that bottled water > in the bimmer is a good idea. As far as I can tell our Seattle water hasn't > reached that stage, yet. > > Reed/Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:32:38 -0600 From: "M Kittock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A couple of thoughts.... One, I've never, ever heard of someone putting tap water in cooling systems. Always distilled. The other is it needs to be distilled water, not spring or filtered water. Distilled water by definition has no minerals (the distillation process leaves behind everything), it is not the same as filtered water. Mark > [Original Message] > From: Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 3/11/2004 6:45:51 PM > Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? > > Well, okay, if you say so. As I originally said, I just don't think you'd > ever find any data to support that. I think you'd agree that untold > millions of engines over the years have lived to a ripe old age while being > routinely filled with tap water and antifreeze. I'm not saying it's stupid > to use distilled water, just that it's one of those things that we do > because it might make a difference, but we'll probably never know for sure. > I would guess that cooling systems end up being contaminated with plenty of > minerals and the like, whether you use filtered water or not. > > So there! :) > > > No matter how 'good' your tap water is, it will have chlorine, flouride, > > and/or other things you really don't want interacting with your cooling > > system components, anti-freeze, Water Wetter, whatever. > > > > -Jay > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:45:45 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, okay, if you say so. As I originally said, I just don't think you'd ever find any data to support that. I think you'd agree that untold millions of engines over the years have lived to a ripe old age while being routinely filled with tap water and antifreeze. I'm not saying it's stupid to use distilled water, just that it's one of those things that we do because it might make a difference, but we'll probably never know for sure. I would guess that cooling systems end up being contaminated with plenty of minerals and the like, whether you use filtered water or not. So there! :) > No matter how 'good' your tap water is, it will have chlorine, flouride, > and/or other things you really don't want interacting with your cooling > system components, anti-freeze, Water Wetter, whatever. > > -Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:26:44 -0500 From: "Karl Zemlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have seen plenty of old radiators with visible crusty crud deposited inside. Any car where I have used distilled water has never shown the slightest hint of deposits. Here in Indianapolis our water is VERY hard - I wouldn't THINK to put tap water in a radiator. I grew up in a town with very good water and I'm sure it isn't as much of an issue, but for the $2.00 it's going to cost, I don't even see the point in debating it. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reed Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? Well, okay, if you say so. As I originally said, I just don't think you'd ever find any data to support that. I think you'd agree that untold millions of engines over the years have lived to a ripe old age while being routinely filled with tap water and antifreeze. I'm not saying it's stupid to use distilled water, just that it's one of those things that we do because it might make a difference, but we'll probably never know for sure. I would guess that cooling systems end up being contaminated with plenty of minerals and the like, whether you use filtered water or not. So there! :) > No matter how 'good' your tap water is, it will have chlorine, > flouride, and/or other things you really don't want interacting with > your cooling system components, anti-freeze, Water Wetter, whatever. > > -Jay Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:59:55 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What? Don't see the point in debating it? What else is there to talk about? Better to have a nonsensical debate about radiator water than to think seriously about the world political situation, or some other depressing subject. Okay, fine, let's get back to endless theories on the usefulness of holes in rotors. I suggest that this list needs to lighten up and realize we are all more or less full of it. It's interesting to discuss this stuff, but let's not take it all so seriously. Okay, let me have it! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Zemlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? > I have seen plenty of old radiators with visible crusty crud deposited > inside. Any car where I have used distilled water has never shown the > slightest hint of deposits. Here in Indianapolis our water is VERY hard - I > wouldn't THINK to put tap water in a radiator. I grew up in a town with > very good water and I'm sure it isn't as much of an issue, but for the $2.00 > it's going to cost, I don't even see the point in debating it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reed > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:46 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [UUC] distilled water or not? > > > Well, okay, if you say so. As I originally said, I just don't think you'd > ever find any data to support that. I think you'd agree that untold > millions of engines over the years have lived to a ripe old age while being > routinely filled with tap water and antifreeze. I'm not saying it's stupid > to use distilled water, just that it's one of those things that we do > because it might make a difference, but we'll probably never know for sure. > I would guess that cooling systems end up being contaminated with plenty of > minerals and the like, whether you use filtered water or not. > > So there! :) > > > No matter how 'good' your tap water is, it will have chlorine, > > flouride, and/or other things you really don't want interacting with > > your cooling system components, anti-freeze, Water Wetter, whatever. > > > > -Jay > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short > Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:59:50 -0800 From: "Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: distilled water or not? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wow, you must be really young. Or something. I don't think anybody I knew growing up ever used anything but tap water when they changed their coolant. Of course, they weren't driving BMW's, just Novas and Falcons, so they probably didn't realize how sensitive cars are. And those are the cars that lived a very long time. Sort of like all those chain smokers who've lived into their eighties, I guess. Reed > A couple of thoughts.... One, I've never, ever heard of someone putting > tap water in cooling systems. Always distilled. The other is it needs to > be distilled water, not spring or filtered water. Distilled water by > definition has no minerals (the distillation process leaves behind > everything), it is not the same as filtered water. > > Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:44 -0500 From: Phil Marx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have the Zimmerman vented/cross-drilled rotors on my kids' 318ti with Hawk HPS pads and I've not noticed any problem with water. Stops better than most any BMW I've driven. But then I never considered water a problem in braking before. But come to think of it why else would they use them on motorcycles? It can't be the heat since my BMW bike weighs only 460 lbs. and has dual-front drilled rotors. How much heat could possibly be generated in stopping 660 lbs. (with rider) with the same rotor area as a 5000 lb. car? Really can't be the weight since those holes don't save that much. I'm guessing it must be the water issue. I have vented/slotted rotors on my 2002 but that's generally for scrubbing the gunk off the pads that gets picked up from the rotors. -Phil Marx Maverick wrote: >I have not tried them on this car, but past experience and checking >with some old racing buddies tells me that cross-drilled rotors >clear water much faster than plain ones. I am assuming that slotted >should do better too, but I am unsure. The same effect that >out-gassing pads have of floating the pads, drilling helps both >issues. > >David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:06:27 -0500 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David, Okay, remembering that the pad is nearly dragging on the rotor even without pressure and the rotor is spinning, how much water can really be between the pad and rotor interface to clear anyway? Once pressure is applied, the pad will act as a squeegee to keep water from getting into the interface surfaces. The spinning rotor takes care of the rest. That's probably your best method for clearing of water. That said, the high pressure and very quick addition of a lot of heat would likely make very quick work of any possible residual moisture that can hang on to a spinning rotor and get past the leading edge of the pad. I'd be more inclined to believe you're seeing poor brake performance on first apply in the wet due to the relatively low temperature of the pad/rotor. The rain/moisture will cool the rotor significantly. What type of pads are you using? Sport street pads can often have terrible cold performance especially on first application. The coefficient of friction varies greatly at the temperature extremes. Sorry, just my skeptical opinions of ANY need for cross-drilled rotors on modern cars other than aesthetics. Chet Dawes Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:33:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Maverick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have not tried them on this car, but past experience and checking with some old racing buddies tells me that cross-drilled rotors clear water much faster than plain ones. I am assuming that slotted should do better too, but I am unsure. The same effect that out-gassing pads have of floating the pads, drilling helps both issues. David A reduction of several car lengths is a HUGE positive improvement. But I have to admit, I'm a wee bit skeptical. Unless you're constantly driving through huge puddles of standing water that are six+ inches deep, I don't see how rain would cause a reduction in braking distance (by affecting the calipers as opposed, of course, to affecting tire grip) on any modern disc-braked car (as opposed to drums). Are you saying that the water gets onto the rotor and pads, and this prevents complete braking? And that drilling helps to evacuate that water? Have you compared drilled rotors v. solid rotors on the same car, in the rain, to arrive at your conclusion? If not, how did you reach your conclusion? I'm really curious, so whatever further info you can provide would be appreciated. thx, --Dennis **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:22:14 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Cross drilled? (was: Time for F rotors and pads - Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David said > > I am planning on using cross-drilled (probably Zimmerman) rotors when I > replace brakes on my 96ti sport. Either direct replacement, or if I get > ambitious 325 fronts (with the proper calipers). I am not sure of the > benefit of the drilling in cooling, but I am sure they help when driving in > the rain. I have several times been driving in rain and had to wait for the > brakes to clear water to get them to working. I am talking several car > lengths worth at speed, and as far as I am concerned, any reduction is a > positive one. I am betting this has more to do with the type of brake pad than the rotor. I have experienced similar issues where driving on the highway in the rain for extended periods without using the brakes will result in a short lag until the brakes work. I have found the problem to be more pronounced with pads such as Mintex Reds and PBR Metal Master. I have not had a problem with Jurid/Pagid/Textar/Ferodo. My choice of rotors remained constant (standard vented rotors...no grooves or holes). Marco said > > I can get brembos for around $50, I haven't found floaters for less than > $130. The Euros do look cooler ;-) but you will not get any improvement in > braking. You can get floating rotors for less than that. I have procured them for around $110 each. I do beleive there are some benefits to floating rotors....at double the cost, that is debatable. Regards, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:49:37 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Wanted: 16 x 9 Navigation screen head unit Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Group, I'm in need of a 16 x 9 navigation head unit from a 2001 and newer e39 5 series, e53 X5 or e38 7 series. Anyone? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:33:50 -0500 From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: <FS> Parts Microfiche - get 'em while they're hot! Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Still got some left guys. Buy 'em in bulk and save me having to move them to our new location. https://www.koalamotorsport.com/fiche.htm Brett Anderson KMS ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
