The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 188 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Re: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Re: And it returns to CAIs, but only maybe? Re: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Re: Coolant color (was Re: best replacement radiator for E36 6 cyl? ) Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Aftermarket Steering Wheel Replacing Airbag Wheel Re: Banned - perhaps Re: Does an E36 need an STB? (was: Banned - perhaps) Strut Bars (was CAI's) Re: Banned - perhaps Re: [bmwuucdigest] A/C for induction Re: Air Filter Pleat Reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:11:33 -0700 From: Kurt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve Albrecht wrote: > I also recall one time when someone asked why he didn't have a CAI > like Conforti had? And, why he didn't sell strut braces. He responded > that a CAI offered such a small improvement as compared to the stock > BMW intake that it wasn't worth the effort, but he was getting such > demand for a CAI that he was going to go ahead and offer one. As for > strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry. Steve is a > good business man and uses the income from these types of products to > help finance the research on the more worthwhile projects. What does Steve consider a reasonable improvement? I was living in Salt Lake City when Josh and Jim were developing the Conforti CAI and I stopped by their shop frequently. They spent a lot of time on the dyno doing most of their testing on an E36 M3. I remember Josh being shocked when he built his first system for the 328 and he saw a 14hp increase without any software changes. He ran the test several times because HE didn't believe it was possible. Needless to say, he was very pleased. Maybe Steve thinks that 14 hp is too small an improvement for the effort? Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:53:13 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hmm, maybe Dinan figures that charging $300-500 for an intake with no improvement (dyno proven to be of very little HP improvement) would require charging $1200etc for one that does show a real world HP gain that can be duplicated by other owner's on a DYNO? Makes you wonder. And lets not turn this into a Dinan pro&con thread. Some of us have dynoed to see the benefits or lack of for Dinan products and some of you swear by them. Each to his own, I just trust figures that are at least re produce able such as the JC intake which produce the HP claimed on my car, on a dyno in front of me. The dinan intake on the car was a wash compared to the stock air box, they both made the same HP. Mike -> -----Original Message----- -> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Zimmerman -> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:12 PM -> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> Subject: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: [UUC] Banned - perhaps) -> -> -> -> -> Steve Albrecht wrote: -> -> > I also recall one time when someone asked why he didn't have a CAI -> > like Conforti had? And, why he didn't sell strut braces. -> He responded -> > that a CAI offered such a small improvement as compared to -> the stock -> > BMW intake that it wasn't worth the effort, but he was -> getting such -> > demand for a CAI that he was going to go ahead and offer -> one. As for -> > strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry. -> Steve is a -> > good business man and uses the income from these types of -> products to -> > help finance the research on the more worthwhile projects. -> -> -> What does Steve consider a reasonable improvement? I was -> living in Salt -> Lake City when Josh and Jim were developing the Conforti CAI and I -> stopped by their shop frequently. They spent a lot of time -> on the dyno -> doing most of their testing on an E36 M3. I remember Josh -> being shocked -> when he built his first system for the 328 and he saw a 14hp -> increase -> without any software changes. He ran the test several times -> because HE -> didn't believe it was possible. Needless to say, he was -> very pleased. -> -> Maybe Steve thinks that 14 hp is too small an improvement -> for the effort? -> -> Kurt -> -> Search the -> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> -> -> _____________________________________________________________ -> _____________ -> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of -> the BMW CCA. -> -> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate -> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! -> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com -> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:24:53 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Michael Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[uucdigest]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: And it returns to CAIs, but only maybe? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Re: And it returns to CAIs:, but only maybe? If you want cold air to get to your intake, whatever kind if intake you use, run a 3 inch diameter round rubber curved right angle plumbing coupler from the foglight bracket upward toward either your CAI or the inlet of your airbox.. The amount of extra dirt that accumulates on the inlet to my airbox and on the hood insulation above the airbox area verifies that this blows a lot of outside air up to the intake. The round rubber coupler pops nicely into the rectangular hole in the foglight bracket. What are these CAI performance number comparing themselves to? If its the stock airbox with both the "intake air silencer" cone and the accordion air inlet tube in place is not an apples to apples comparison. To compare a CAI plus software remap tuned for it to a stock airbox and mapping is outright dishonest. There is also the european //M3 airbox at about $150. which is another viable option to increase intake airflow. If you keep the factory airbox but remove the intake silencer cone and external accordion tube, you open it up immensely. To improve on this, I attached a 4" to 6" round straight rubber plumbing coupler (the Home Depot mod) to the oval opening at the front of the airbox. When in place in the car, this inlet is pressed into an oval shape behind the headlight bucket, and is right above where the right angle tube from the foglight hole is. On the dyno at a couple of Bay Bimmerz dyno days, this gutted stock airbox gave approx the same power as similarly modded cars with CAIs. CAI power curves tended to be a bit peakier than the factory airbox. So you get a HP or two more, but at the expense of a pound or two of torque About Dinan: When I was having them remap my ECU after I opened up the airbox and installed a Supersprint exhaust, they tried the stage 2 software intended for their CAI, and we were gettting CEs around 6500. Steve Dinan came out and test drove my car with me to check out what was happening. The codes showed too lean where the CE light was coming on. Their CAI should not be used without a remapping. Its a resonant tube tuned for certain airflow rates and its mappings are different than what they'll map on an engine with the stock airbox. Dinan then instructed his guy which of his other mappings to burn on my ECU and the increase in both power and fuel economy which resulted justified the expense at the time. ymmv, Barry Michael Lawrence wrote: >Hmm, maybe Dinan figures that charging $300-500 for an intake with no >improvement (dyno proven to be of very little HP improvement) would >require charging $1200etc for one that does show a real world HP gain >that can be duplicated by other owner's on a DYNO? > >Makes you wonder. And lets not turn this into a Dinan pro&con thread. >Some of us have dynoed to see the benefits or lack of for Dinan products >and some of you swear by them. Each to his own, I just trust figures >that are at least re produce able such as the JC intake which produce >the HP claimed on my car, on a dyno in front of me. The dinan intake on >the car was a wash compared to the stock air box, they both made the >same HP. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:19:23 -0700 From: "John Kjos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: Banned - perhaps) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kurt, That's about the same HP gain that Dinan claims for E39 540i's. Very few on the lists I read agree that there is ANY GAIN, including Steve. Over time, I tend to go along with them because of the number of "expert opinions" with similar comments. THEN one comes up like this. I'm just going to leave everything as is and learn to drive better. Off to PIR next week I go. John Kjos '99 540i/6: Dinan S1 '01 525iTa: Stock Portland, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Zimmerman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: And it returns to CAIs (was Re: [UUC] Banned - perhaps) > > > Steve Albrecht wrote: > > > I also recall one time when someone asked why he didn't have a CAI > > like Conforti had? And, why he didn't sell strut braces. He responded > > that a CAI offered such a small improvement as compared to the stock > > BMW intake that it wasn't worth the effort, but he was getting such > > demand for a CAI that he was going to go ahead and offer one. As for > > strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry. Steve is a > > good business man and uses the income from these types of products to > > help finance the research on the more worthwhile projects. > > > What does Steve consider a reasonable improvement? I was living in Salt > Lake City when Josh and Jim were developing the Conforti CAI and I > stopped by their shop frequently. They spent a lot of time on the dyno > doing most of their testing on an E36 M3. I remember Josh being shocked > when he built his first system for the 328 and he saw a 14hp increase > without any software changes. He ran the test several times because HE > didn't believe it was possible. Needless to say, he was very pleased. > > Maybe Steve thinks that 14 hp is too small an improvement for the effort? > > Kurt > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:19:04 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Coolant color (was Re: best replacement radiator for E36 6 cyl? ) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> What color is the BMW coolant? Blue. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:40:15 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'll further add to this - back around 1990, Steve Dinan gave a presentation on suspension mods at a GGC general membership meetings. (This is when we still actually used to have such meetings.) He said nothing about strut braces. After he was done, someone asked about strut braces. His reply went something like this. 1. Learn how to drive your car. 2. When you've learned and are ready for mods, do: Wheels Tires Springs Shocks Sway bars Front and rear camber 3. Then learn how to drive your car again. 4. When you can consistently drive your car it its limits, if you still need to improve your lap times by a tenth of a second, buy a strut brace. Having said that, here are my observations: 1. A car that has had front end damage might better benefit from a strut brace than one that has never been damaged. 2. Many people who own strut braces swear that they can feel the difference. That may be and I can't argue with them, since I don't have a strut brace. But there is a difference between the car feeling better, and the car going faster. 3. Those who have used strut braces say the ones with hinges at each end do nothing, but the ones without hinges do, um, something. 4. Dinan now sells them. If people are going to spend money on something, why should he not offer to sell them one? But I wonder how many of Steve's customers first ask him his opinion? :^) Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:12:30 -0400 (EDT) >From: Mark Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Does an E36 need an STB? (was: Banned - perhaps) >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Howdy, > >On Thu, 13 May 2004, Steve Albrecht wrote: >> As for strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry. > >So... This prompts a question. > >Do E36's used with sticky tires & stiffer suspension benefit from an STB? > >There's one on our car that was there when we got it, but it makes >adjusting camber a bit of a PITA. If it's worthless in terms of >performance, I'll remove it and save myself a bit of hassle/weight. > >Thanks! > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:50:27 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I would think that using a strut brace and an X brace would reduce some of the flex in the front end. Maybe it doesn't improve handling THAT much, but it probably improves the car's longevity. particularly if a car is thrashed about on a track. Then again, I suspect I have different longevity expectations than most for my cars. Marc Plante E36 325i, 220k [For Sale] E36 M3/4, 49k 2002 Audi AR Vienna, VA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:04:22 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Does an E36 need an STB? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nah, they just get in the way. Gary Buff 95 318ti--no strut brace 03 325--ditto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:07:50 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Aftermarket Steering Wheel Replacing Airbag Wheel Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Due to the current state of the airbag/horn unit on my E30 1990 325i (said state being, the threads on the Torx screws that hold the unit to the wheel are all messed up - again - and the one screw that is holding the airbag to the wheel can neither be completely screwed in nor removed through conventional methods), I am once again thinking about replacing the wheel with a non-airbag aftermarket steering wheel. I would be intereste in hearing from anyone who has done this on their E30 street car. What wheel did you buy? How did you adapt it to the steering column? I am already aware, for example, that the Momo adaptor for non-airbag cars positions the wheel incorrectly on airbag cars, and Momo does not have an adaptor for airbag cars. Thanks, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i w/ rattling airbag unit 1991 325iA up on jackstands getting new brakes, as soon as I borrow some impact wrench to remove the left front caliper bracket-to-strut bolts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:24:46 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Banned - perhaps Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> this may not be so far-fetched. the concept SVT Lightning used a system which was designed to pre-cool a volume of air for a short burst of added power. info is here : http://www.svt.ford.com/conceptLabLightning.asp I dunno whether they intend to do this for the production engine when it comes out, but it seems to have some potential. Ben Pavel Tcholakov wrote: > I am aware of the laws of thermodynamics so I know you can't make power by > feeding the AC cooled air into the intake. However what about using that air to > cool down the manifold while idling? I know people often pack dry ice around > their manifolds at the drag strip, and at the track people let their cars idle > for a good few minutes after sessions. > > If you route some cold air around the intake manifold you might achieve some > tiny but measurable gains (talking about a difference of 0.1-0.2 in a 1/4 mile > run). Dry ice is probably far more efficient, but it might work :-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 May 2004 11:38:31 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Does an E36 need an STB? (was: Banned - perhaps) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Albrecht has it right. I was at a local SAE meeting where Dinan was displaying his first E36 supercharger installation. I asked about the STB on that car, and he said it made no discernable difference on the track, because the E36 body is already so stiff. He called it "jewelry for the engine compartment" and "eye candy" and said his marketing people insisted that it be produced. Could be a different story for an E36 that has loosened up with use ... Curt Ingraham Oakland, CA Mark Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Steve Albrecht wrote: > > As for strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry. > > So... This prompts a question. > > Do E36's used with sticky tires & stiffer suspension benefit from an STB? > > There's one on our car that was there when we got it, but it makes > adjusting camber a bit of a PITA. If it's worthless in terms of > performance, I'll remove it and save myself a bit of hassle/weight. > > Thanks! > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Strut Bars (was CAI's) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve A (hi, by the way, haven't seen you in a while) wrote: "As for strut braces on a BMW, he called them engine room jewelry." On my tired E34 M5 it made an immediate difference. The car was much more responsive to initial steering input and it gave me the added benefit of providing clearance for my wiper that should have been provided by BMW. However, on the newer much stiffer cars being built by BMW it may have little or no effect. I thought my car was a little flexible until I drove an E24 M6. Wow, on initial turn in you get a big flex until the suspension sets. So, it is turn, wait for chassis to turn, suspension sets, wait, RA1's take a set, throttle. Car sticks like glue though. Kevin Kelly '91 M5 '00 323iT (put a jack anywhere and the whole side of the car is off the ground, unlike the E34) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:10:09 -0700 From: John Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Banned - perhaps Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > John Kjos writes: COLD AIR: If cold air is the answer, why don't I just > route an A/C vent to the front of the air filter? I could care less > about cabin temperatures when I'm concerned about performance. Perhaps a > switch could be installed that allows ALL THE A/C OUTPUT to the air > intake. Because the airflow capacity of the air conditioning system is so small relative to the engine's intake requirements when under load/WOT conditions that it'd offer a very, very small gain at best, less than the power consumed by the AC system. However... One would note that Ford has developed, patented, and (at least in the show-version of the 'next Lightning') implemented a system that uses the vehicle's AC to cool the intercooler's air-to-water coolant reservoir, in order to provide a short-term dose of 'supercooled' air while under boost. Note that we're talking about a supercharged engine here, and about a system that's a net power *consumer* (it takes more power to chill the water than you net from using it to cool the intake charge) but the difference is here that you're chilling the water under cruise/part-throttle conditions when you have plenty to spare, and using it at WOT when you want every bit you can get. One would note that the local power utility (Pacific Gas and Electric) built, twenty or so years ago when Diablo Canyon (their nuke on the Central California coast) was being built and looked like it'd be providing surplus off-peak power for the foreseeable future, something called the Helms Canyon Pumped Storage Project. It consisted of a set of vertical-axis turbines in an underground cavern between a pair of reservoirs out in the foothills past Fresno, where during the day water would run downhill through the turbines and generate peak-use power, and at night the turbines would be motored to pump the water back UPHILL using all that surplus off-peak DCPP power. Once again, a net power consumer, but (supposed to be) cheap peak-load power. John. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:28:09 -0500 From: "Robert M. Ellsworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [bmwuucdigest] A/C for induction Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I am aware of the laws of thermodynamics so I know you can't make power by > feeding the AC cooled air into the intake. You're not violating the laws of thermodynamics at all. You're densifying the intake charge,just like intercooling, and using the A/C as a heat pump rather than using an air-cooled intercooler. Moreover, all that's required for additional cooling during hard acceleration (where you don't want the compressor running) is a larger high-side refrigerant reservoir. Ford has developed just such a system for production (I believe it has about 16-17sec of "reserve" cooling). I would think that dry ice around aluminum engine parts would be a relatively short route to incredible cracking and surprise failures. I'd think you'd be better off with a set of finned or pin tubes in the air intake, much like an intercooler, with a mixture of dry ice and a low-freezing liquid like alcohol to give good contact. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:58:38 -0700 From: "John Kjos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Air Filter Pleat Reply Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How about the 2nd derivative of the 3rd law of thermodynamics? I bet you haven't considered that factor!!! John Kjos '99 540i/6: Dinan S1 '01 525iTa: Stock Portland, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] Air Filter Pleat Reply > The second law of thermodynamics or in other words TANSTAAFL prevents > running A/C to increase power. > > Gary Derian > > > > > > COLD AIR: If cold air is the answer, why don't I just route an A/C vent > to > > > the front of the air filter? I could care less about cabin > > > temperatures when > > > I'm concerned about performance. Perhaps a switch could be installed > that > > > allows ALL THE A/C OUTPUT to the air intake. > > > > Well, I am pretty sure that the amount of power robbed by the A/C exceeds > > that of the amount additional horsepower it might make due the cooler air > > for the intake. This sounds a little bit like the h*mster charger... > > > > ;-) > > > > You could always pack your intake with dry ice. I hear that Gary D has > some > > for sale on eBay... > > > > Regards, > > > > Rich > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
