The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 107 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: Differential for E46 M3 Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:49:28 -0500 From: "Jason Kay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *snip* > Your test for an LSD is valid, but not relevant. The test will tell if the > car is equipped with LSD or not (the M3 is), but it will not tell if the LSD > is functional. Especially in the case of the E46 M3, E60 M5 and E63 M6, all > of which have a combination Salisbury/Viscous unit with very low static lock. > And the E36 MCoupe/MRoadster, which have very little static lock in their 4 > disc Salisbury units. > > Also, the test you quote will not be accurate on Quaife/Torsen equipped cars. Brett, There is a similar discussion right now on the Rennlist(Porsche) site... So I'm curious, how can you tell if a Limited Slip Diff is still working on a Torsen/Quaife equipped car? TIA, -Jason '86 951 "Sparky" '70 240Z "Dusty" '97 Contour "Bambi" '03 325xi sport "Daisy" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:29:28 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Power out of a tight corner. One can determine the presence of a Quaife or Torsen by working both rear tires by hand with the driveshaft locked. Essentially, when one rear tire tries to overspeed, torque is transferred to the slower tire, but the overspeeding tire needs some resistance to effect the torque transfer. A casual test will show the Quaife or Torsen to behave like an open diff, but holding one rear tire will tend to lock up the other tire. Gary Derian > >> Your test for an LSD is valid, but not relevant. The test will tell if >> the car is equipped with LSD or not (the M3 is), but it will not tell if >> the LSD is functional. Especially in the case of the E46 M3, E60 M5 and >> E63 M6, all of which have a combination Salisbury/Viscous unit with very >> low static lock. And the E36 MCoupe/MRoadster, which have very little >> static lock in their 4 disc Salisbury units. >> >> Also, the test you quote will not be accurate on Quaife/Torsen equipped >> cars. > > Brett, > There is a similar discussion right now on the Rennlist(Porsche) site... > > So I'm curious, how can you tell if a Limited Slip Diff is still working > on a Torsen/Quaife equipped car? > > TIA, > > -Jason > '86 951 "Sparky" > '70 240Z "Dusty" > '97 Contour "Bambi" > '03 325xi sport "Daisy" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:36:29 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> yep. that's one of the reasons if you're using a quaife you REALLY don't want any drive wheel lift in corners. Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Derian Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] Differential for E46 M3 Power out of a tight corner. One can determine the presence of a Quaife or Torsen by working both rear tires by hand with the driveshaft locked. Essentially, when one rear tire tries to overspeed, torque is transferred to the slower tire, but the overspeeding tire needs some resistance to effect the torque transfer. A casual test will show the Quaife or Torsen to behave like an open diff, but holding one rear tire will tend to lock up the other tire. Gary Derian > '97 Contour "Bambi" > '03 325xi sport "Daisy" Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:07:19 -0500 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jason Kay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That's an easy one. If it's a Quaife/Torsen gear driven LSD, it's still working. Basically, they can't stop working without a catastrophic failure. Brett Anderson KMS Jason Kay wrote: > *snip* > > >>Your test for an LSD is valid, but not relevant. The test will tell if the >>car is equipped with LSD or not (the M3 is), but it will not tell if the LSD >>is functional. Especially in the case of the E46 M3, E60 M5 and E63 M6, all >>of which have a combination Salisbury/Viscous unit with very low static lock. >> And the E36 MCoupe/MRoadster, which have very little static lock in their 4 >>disc Salisbury units. >> >>Also, the test you quote will not be accurate on Quaife/Torsen equipped cars. > > > Brett, > There is a similar discussion right now on the Rennlist(Porsche) site... > > So I'm curious, how can you tell if a Limited Slip Diff is still working on a > Torsen/Quaife equipped car? > > TIA, > > -Jason > '86 951 "Sparky" > '70 240Z "Dusty" > '97 Contour "Bambi" > '03 325xi sport "Daisy" > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:45:28 -0600 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brett, While we are on the subject do you have a recomendation for a fluid for final drive use for an E39 M5? I tried contacting Redline to see if their 75W90 will work and they didn't reply. Regards -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:02:57 -0500 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jamie Howton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Differential for E46 M3 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Redline 75W90 works fine. So does Royal Purple MaxGear, Amsoil 75W90, Mobil 1 75W90, etc Any synthetic gear oil advertised for LSD should work without any issue, provided it's changed at respectable intervals. Brett Anderson KMS Jamie Howton wrote: > Brett, > > While we are on the subject do you have a recomendation for a fluid > for final drive use for an E39 M5? > > I tried contacting Redline to see if their 75W90 will work and they > didn't reply. > > Regards > > -- > Jamie Howton > 2000 M5 > 1995 M3 > Hampshire, IL > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:21:55 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? Hey, somebody had to ask. :^) Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:03:19 -0500 >From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Brian Ruiz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "UUC Digest" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert <grin>. >Gary Derian > > > >>I remember seeing a link a while back to a tutorial >> about trimming the front bump stops on a set of >> Bilstein Sports. Anyone have the link to this? Was >> it on the UUC site or somewhere else? I can't seem to >> find it. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Brian >> 95 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:30:02 -0800 From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I remember reading about this procedure once. I recall the critical elements being refried beans, a funnel, plumbers putty and acrylic tubing. Someone must have saved that link...anyone? Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial > Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? Hey, > somebody had to ask. :^) > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:03:19 -0500 >>From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Brian Ruiz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "UUC Digest" > <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial >>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert > <grin>. >>Gary Derian >> >> >> >>>I remember seeing a link a while back to a tutorial >>> about trimming the front bump stops on a set of >>> Bilstein Sports. Anyone have the link to this? Was >>> it on the UUC site or somewhere else? I can't seem to >>> find it. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Brian >>> 95 M3 > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:01:55 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You don't have to open that part of the strut insert. Bilstein front inserts are upside down. When you pull off the bottom cap of the outer tube, you expose the strut rod and bump stop. You do not penetrate the gas pressurized oil chamber. Gary Derian > > >> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? Hey, >> somebody had to ask. :^) >> >> Scott Miller >> GGC BMW CCA >> >>>Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert >> <grin>. >>>Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:19:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just curious. What is the point of cutting the "bump stop"? Ryan- > You don't have to open that part of the strut insert. Bilstein front > inserts are upside down. When you pull off the bottom cap of the outer > tube, you expose the strut rod and bump stop. You do not penetrate the > gas > pressurized oil chamber. > > Gary Derian >> >> >>> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? >>> Hey, >>> somebody had to ask. :^) >>> >>> Scott Miller >>> GGC BMW CCA >>> >>>>Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert >>> <grin>. >>>>Gary Derian > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:14:52 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bilsteins have very tall bump stops that limit wheel travel, especially with lowered suspension. Rumor has it that they have changed their bump stop spec. Gary Derian > Just curious. What is the point of cutting the "bump stop"? > Ryan- > > > >> You don't have to open that part of the strut insert. Bilstein front >> inserts are upside down. When you pull off the bottom cap of the outer >> tube, you expose the strut rod and bump stop. You do not penetrate the >> gas >> pressurized oil chamber. >> >> Gary Derian >>> >>> >>>> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? >>>> Hey, >>>> somebody had to ask. :^) >>>> >>>> Scott Miller >>>> GGC BMW CCA >>>> >>>>>Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert >>>> <grin>. >>>>>Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:41:26 -0500 From: "Marc Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cars on lowering springs tend to bottom out against the bump stop of Bilstein struts, making the car ride more harshly, and placing the burden of managing your car's handling on a chunk of rubber instead of a shock absorber/strut. Marc Plante E36 M3/4 (still stock cause I'm cheap these days). Vienna VA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [UUC] <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:19:52 -0800 (PST) > > > Just curious. What is the point of cutting the "bump stop"? > Ryan- > > > > > You don't have to open that part of the strut insert. Bilstein front > > inserts are upside down. When you pull off the bottom cap of the outer > > tube, you expose the strut rod and bump stop. You do not penetrate the > > gas > > pressurized oil chamber. > > > > Gary Derian > >> > >> > >>> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? > >>> Hey, > >>> somebody had to ask. :^) > >>> > >>> Scott Miller > >>> GGC BMW CCA > >>> > >>>> Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert > >>> <grin>. > >>>> Gary Derian > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:57:37 -0800 From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 01:41 PM 3/29/2006, Marc Plante wrote: I was paging through a BMW training document some time back (I believe it was for the Z4) where it stated that the factory bumpstops (the yellow foam ones you always find on factory dampers) are 'tuned' to be part of the overall suspension system, and that they need to be replaced if damaged or otherwise. Interesting. I don't remember what I did when I put Konis on my E46. I know the Bilstein inserts I put in my M6 didn't come with any bumpstops, and were far too thick to take OE ones. >cars on lowering springs tend to bottom out against the bump stop of >Bilstein struts, making the car ride more harshly, and placing the >burden of managing your car's handling on a chunk of rubber instead >of a shock absorber/strut. > > >Marc Plante >E36 M3/4 (still stock cause I'm cheap these days). >Vienna VA > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [UUC] <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:19:52 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > Just curious. What is the point of cutting the "bump stop"? > > Ryan- > > > > > > > > > You don't have to open that part of the strut insert. Bilstein front > > > inserts are upside down. When you pull off the bottom cap of the outer > > > tube, you expose the strut rod and bump stop. You do not penetrate the > > > gas > > > pressurized oil chamber. > > > > > > Gary Derian > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hey Gary, just curious - how do you put the gas back in afterwards? > > >>> Hey, > > >>> somebody had to ask. :^) > > >>> > > >>> Scott Miller > > >>> GGC BMW CCA > > >>> > > >>>> Easy, 1) open strut insert, 2) cut bump stop, 3) close strut insert > > >>> <grin>. > > >>>> Gary Derian > > > > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:48:46 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The Bilstein bump stops are down inside. For Konis, use the stock ones, unless you have lowered the suspension. Gary Derian > At 01:41 PM 3/29/2006, Marc Plante wrote: > > I was paging through a BMW training document some time back (I believe it > was for the Z4) where it stated that the factory bumpstops (the yellow > foam ones you always find on factory dampers) are 'tuned' to be part of > the overall suspension system, and that they need to be replaced if > damaged or otherwise. Interesting. > > I don't remember what I did when I put Konis on my E46. I know the > Bilstein inserts I put in my M6 didn't come with any bumpstops, and were > far too thick to take OE ones. > >>cars on lowering springs tend to bottom out against the bump stop of >>Bilstein struts, making the car ride more harshly, and placing the burden >>of managing your car's handling on a chunk of rubber instead of a shock >>absorber/strut. >> >> >>Marc Plante >>E36 M3/4 (still stock cause I'm cheap these days). >>Vienna VA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> bilstein bump stop tutorial Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I also believe that only certain Bilsteins, like the E36 ones, need to worry about the internal bumpstops, since it seems to be a feature of their monotube shocks. Twin tube shocks, like the ones Bilstein make for the E46, seem to be plug-n-play. The external bumpstops do need to be trimmed if you are using lowering springs. --Andre ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
