it just seems to me that mentality might be a better term to use then
consciousness...

this is a notoriously difficult problem....





On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@charter.net>wrote:

>   Hi B,
>
>     Speaking only for myself, I do believe that consciousness is causally
> effective, in the sense that if it did not exist then certain other features
> of the world would not exist and that my belief that I (an indicator for
> inner subjective experience of “being in the world”) is not just an
> illusion.
>     Is this belief justified? Hard to say, but so far I have not found
> that the materialist, physicalist, etc. have successfully given me
> unassailable reasons to believe that by experience of “being in the world”
> is just some kind of nonsense that we lie to ourselves about., pace Dennett,
> Churchland, etc.
>     I supposed that I might be considered a dualist, but unlike Descartes,
> I argue against the notion of substance as an ontological primitive; instead
> it is proposed that all properties emerge from process ala Bergson and
> Heraclitus. I see mind and body as a specific instantiations of the Stone
> duality and the relation between them is an isomorphism. There is no “causal
> link” between the two, in the Humean sense, needed. For an elaboration of
> this view see: http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/ratmech.pdf
>     AFAIK, Bruno adheres to an Idealist version of Platonism. We welcome
> your thoughts and comments.
>
> Onward!
>
> Stephen
>
>
>   *From:* B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:25 PM
> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: consciousness
>  furthermore you seem to conceive of a consciousness apart from its
> properties... you are making the erroneous distinction of attribute and
> essence.... you sound much like Descartes.
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:24 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "A property of consciousness is"
>>
>> it sounds like you are reifying "consciousness"... consciousness is not a
>> thing in itself, consciousness does not exist in and of itself... it can
>> only be understood within the interdependent and complex framework of
>> sensation, bodies, space.... consciousness of something, in and through
>> something.... inseparable from the system of space, energy, matter and
>> motion... and essential equal to it.... not something seperate and distinct
>> from it that can exist independently of it....
>>
>> consciousness is not something that exists in itself.... consciousness is
>> always embodied consciousness of life.... in and through life and the
>> complex instrument of form and the mystery of sensation and generation.
>> Consciousness is a phenomena of the "body" and its natural system... and is
>> equal to that "body" and "body system".
>>
>> it sounds like you guys are reifing consciousness....
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Pzomby <htra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 4:23 am, selva kumar <selvakr1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Is consciousness causally effective ?
>>> >
>>>
>>> In my opinion, yes, if in simple terms, it is logically correct to
>>> state:  A property of consciousness is….the capacity and ability of
>>> individual human consciousness to create intentionally desired
>>> physical and mental effects.
>>>
>>>  --
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