a question I want to pose to the community as well as Bruno is: Bruno, have you ever seriously studied Nietzsche... he is probably the single most persuasive critic of Platonism that has ever existed.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:08 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote: > it just seems to me that mentality might be a better term to use then > consciousness... > > this is a notoriously difficult problem.... > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Stephen Paul King > <stephe...@charter.net>wrote: > >> Hi B, >> >> Speaking only for myself, I do believe that consciousness is causally >> effective, in the sense that if it did not exist then certain other features >> of the world would not exist and that my belief that I (an indicator for >> inner subjective experience of “being in the world”) is not just an >> illusion. >> Is this belief justified? Hard to say, but so far I have not found >> that the materialist, physicalist, etc. have successfully given me >> unassailable reasons to believe that by experience of “being in the >> world” is just some kind of nonsense that we lie to ourselves about., pace >> Dennett, Churchland, etc. >> I supposed that I might be considered a dualist, but unlike Descartes, >> I argue against the notion of substance as an ontological primitive; instead >> it is proposed that all properties emerge from process ala Bergson and >> Heraclitus. I see mind and body as a specific instantiations of the Stone >> duality and the relation between them is an isomorphism. There is no “causal >> link” between the two, in the Humean sense, needed. For an elaboration of >> this view see: http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/ratmech.pdf >> AFAIK, Bruno adheres to an Idealist version of Platonism. We welcome >> your thoughts and comments. >> >> Onward! >> >> Stephen >> >> >> *From:* B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:25 PM >> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: consciousness >> furthermore you seem to conceive of a consciousness apart from its >> properties... you are making the erroneous distinction of attribute and >> essence.... you sound much like Descartes. >> >> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:24 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "A property of consciousness is" >>> >>> it sounds like you are reifying "consciousness"... consciousness is not a >>> thing in itself, consciousness does not exist in and of itself... it can >>> only be understood within the interdependent and complex framework of >>> sensation, bodies, space.... consciousness of something, in and through >>> something.... inseparable from the system of space, energy, matter and >>> motion... and essential equal to it.... not something seperate and distinct >>> from it that can exist independently of it.... >>> >>> consciousness is not something that exists in itself.... consciousness is >>> always embodied consciousness of life.... in and through life and the >>> complex instrument of form and the mystery of sensation and generation. >>> Consciousness is a phenomena of the "body" and its natural system... and is >>> equal to that "body" and "body system". >>> >>> it sounds like you guys are reifing consciousness.... >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Pzomby <htra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 1, 4:23 am, selva kumar <selvakr1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > Is consciousness causally effective ? >>>> > >>>> >>>> In my opinion, yes, if in simple terms, it is logically correct to >>>> state: A property of consciousness is….the capacity and ability of >>>> individual human consciousness to create intentionally desired >>>> physical and mental effects. >>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
