Hi Stathis Papaioannou 

You need a self or observer to be conscious, and computers
have no self. So they can't be conscious. 

Consciousness =  a subject looking at, or aware of, an object.

Computers have no subject. 


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Stathis Papaioannou 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-23, 09:02:12
Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment


On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:53 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > If anyone is not familiar with David Chalmers "Absent Qualia, Fading
>> > Qualia, Dancing Qualia" You should have a look at it first.
>
>
> I confess I have not read it because I have little confidence it's any
> better than the Chinese Room. Well OK I exaggerate, it's probably better
> than that (what isn't) but there is something about all these anti AI
> thought experiments that has always confused me. Let's suppose I'm dead
> wrong and Chambers really has found something new and strange and maybe even
> paradoxical about consciousness, what I want to know is why am I required to
> explain it if I want to continue to believe that a intelligent computers
> would be conscious? Whatever argument Chambers has it could just as easily
> be turned against the idea that the intelligent behavior of other people
> indicates consciousness, and yet not one person on this list believes in
> Solipsism, not even the most vocal AI critics. Why? Why is it that I must
> find the flaws in all these thought experiments but the anti AI people feel
> no need to do so?
>
> In the extraordinarily unlikely event that Chambers has shown that
> consciousness is paradoxical (and its probably just as childish as all the
> others) I would conclude that he just made an error someplace that nobody
> has found yet. When Zeno showed that motion was paradoxical nobody thought
> that motion did not exist but that Zeno just made a mistake, and he did,
> although the error wasn't found till the invention of the Calculus thousands
> of years later.

The paper presents a very strong argument *in favour* of computers
having consciousness. I haven't seen anyone who understands it refute
it, or even try to refute it. It's worth reading at least part 3, as
it constitutes a proof of that which you suspected.


-- 
Stathis Papaioannou

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