On 24 Sep 2012, at 16:13, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

A computer being not conscious ? All computer operations
(to my mind,probably not yours) are actual (in spacetime).
But  consciousness is an inherent (mental, not in spacetime)
activity.

All right, in that sense a computer cannot think. I agree, but a brain cannot think too, nor any body. They can only manifest consciousness, which, we agree on this, is in Platonia.

Computer can support a knowing self, like a brain, unless you decide not, but then it looks like arbitrary racism. You just decide that some entities cannot think, because *you* fail to recognize yourself in them.

You could at least say that you don't know, or give argument, but you just repeat that brain can support consciousness and that silicon cannot, without giving an atom of justification. This can't be serious.



Cs = subject + object

A computer has no inherent realms, no conscious self or observer.

Instead, a computer is all object (completely in the objective realm),
no subject.

You can implement a self-transformative software on computers.

You should be more careful and study a bit of computer science before judging computers, especially if you assert strong negative statements about them.

Bruno




Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-24, 09:52:34
Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment


On 24 Sep 2012, at 14:51, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stathis Papaioannou

Try to define consciousness. If you can't,
how do you know that a computer is conscious ?

Try to define consciousness. If you can't
how do you know that a computer is not conscious?

Bruno








Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stathis Papaioannou
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-24, 08:38:48
Subject: Re: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stathis Papaioannou

You need a self or observer to be conscious, and computers
have no self. So they can't be conscious.

Consciousness = a subject looking at, or aware of, an object.

Computers have no subject.

So where do you get the idea that computers have no self, no subject
and can't be observers or be conscious? You may as well claim that
women aren't conscious but just act as if they are conscious, like an
advanced computer pretending to have a self.


-- Stathis Papaioannou

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