Hi Stephen P. King No, the subject has to perceive the object, not be the object. He must be apart from the object of perception. Perception, intelligence, consciousness all require such an external observer/chooser.
Think of a chess game. The players are not the rooks and pawns, they study the game from outside the game. Roger Clough, [email protected] 9/25/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-24, 10:50:33 Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment On 9/24/2012 9:59 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > By self I mean conscious self. Computers > are not conscious because codes can describe, > but they can't perceive. Perception requires a > live viewer or self. > > I had no racial intentions in mind when I spoke > of not having a subject, and I find it difficult to > see how you could imagine that. And not having > a subject would mean you are dead. HI Roger, We can faithfully capture the idea of perception by considering a process of actively generating and updating an internal model of the entity and its interactions with its environment. The "subject" or self" is, in this reasoning, identified with the internal model. We can limit the infinite regress problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus_argument) that might be considered as an argument against this idea by the following means: 1) Each model and any sub-model are (up to some limit) isomorphic (see Kleene's theorems), so one only needs resources to code the initial model and any bits that represent the differences between it and its sub-models. The "self" is the model plus the updating mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
