On 17 Oct 2012, at 19:12, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

Sorry, I lost the thread on the doctor, and don't know what Craig believes about the p-zombie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

"A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and perception is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except in that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1] When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain though it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus, or tell us that it is in intense pain)."

My guess is that this is the solipsism issue, to which I would say that if it has no mind, it cannot converse with you, which would be a test for solipsism,-- which I just now found in typing the first part of this sentence.

Solipsism makes everyone zombie except you.

But in some context some people might conceive that zombie exists, without making everyone zombie. Craig believes that computers, if they might behave like conscious individuals would be a zombie, but he is no solipsist.

There is no test for solipsism, nor for zombieness. BY definition, almost. A zombie behaves exactly like a human being. There is no 3p features that you could use at all to make a direct test. Now a theory which admits zombie, can have other features which might be testable, and so some indirect test are logically conceivable, relatively to some theory.

Bruno









Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
10/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-17, 08:57:36
Subject: Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overlycomplexcomputations ?




On 16 Oct 2012, at 15:33, Stephen P. King wrote:


On 10/16/2012 9:20 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King

Thanks. My mistake was to say that P's position is that
consciousness, arises at (or above ?)
the level of noncomputability.  He just seems to
say that intuiton does. But that just seems
to be a conjecture of his.


ugh, rclo...@verizon.net
10/16/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


Hi Roger,

IMHO, computability can only capture at most a "simulation" of the content of consciousness, but we can deduce a lot from that ...



So you do say "no" to the doctor? And you do follow Craig on the existence of p-zombie?


Bruno




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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