Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 27, 2013 4:26 am
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to
function suggests its ...
On 27 May 2013, at 05:05, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
Understood, Jason. I became familiar with this digital universe
concept, first, through Hans Moravec, in Mind Children. I wonder how
possible it is to discover that we are part of an ancestor
simulation?
By reasoning, taking the FPI into consideration. We cannot discover
this, but evaluate the probability, which might be high indeed. By the
FPI, our consciousness relied on all computations (infinity) which is
going through you state. In a sense, you are both in the simulations
by ancestors (which exist in arithmetic) and all the other
simulations, which exist also in arithmetic.
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
From: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to
function suggests its ...
On 5/25/2013 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:35 AM,
<spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:
Interesting Jason,
My issue with the multi-generated clones
created either by the actions of a multiverse or
the actions of hypercomputers, my concern is that,
its such a waste (in my opinion) that a Jason who
belongs to an identical Earth, but humans all have
elephant tricks instead of noses. Or a Jason Resch,
belonging to a species that has rectangular crystal
panels built in their stomachs and backs (see
thru). I am shooting for ridiculous incarnations of
J. Resch, in order to illustrate the unlikeliness,
of this method of producing the actual person-
thoughts feelings memories. The memory thing as a
blue print, to me, seems, essential, for
resurrection. I could be totally wrong, but I am
merely trying to simplify this for myself, if
nobody else. Thanks, Jason.
Mitch,
Consider a few points: First, roughly 100
billion humans have ever lived in this history of
humans, the life expectancy of humans over most of that
time was 10 years, so roughly there have been 1
trillion years worth of human experience. Second, if
transhumanism is correct and we transcend our
biological limits we could not only live much longer
but generate experiences at greatly accelerated rates.
It would take the then current population of people
(say it is 10 billion) only 100 years to generate the
same total amount of experience of all humans going
back millions of years. Even if only 10% of the
population, spends only 1% of their time simulating/
experiencing alternate lives or histories, it would
take a mere 100,000 years for most of "human"
experiences to be generated artificially by our
descendents. This ignores the acceleration that is
possible. Electricity flows through wires about a
million times faster than neurotransmitters conduct
signals in the brain. This implies that without any
miniaturization, human thought could be accelerated by
about a factor of a million times, so it could take
only a month (rather than 100,000 years) for these
accelerated humans spending only 0.1% of their
collective time simulating ancestors for the bulk of
human experience to be artificially generated. Now
consider that such a civilization could live for
billions of years. If each post-human experiences a
few thousand or a few million ancestor lives, or
alternate species, etc., then odds quickly become
overwhelming that your current moment of awareness is
not explained by that of some biological being on a
physical planet but that of some advanced being
conducting a simulation on some advanced computational
substrate.
Jason
-Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 11:10 am
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after
the brain ceases to function suggests its ...
On Fri, May
17, 2013 at 4:57 PM,
<spudboy...@aol.com
> wrote:
So
, Jason,by this reasoning, a
sufficiently advanced
technology, then, in
indistinguisable from
Resurrection.
If used for such purposes. Even
if technology is not used for the
explicit purpose of resurrection, say
it is only used for exploration
purposes, where simulation is applied
to explore other possibilities of
existence and being, a side effect
will be to provide new paths for the
consciousness of the simulated beings
to follow. It is a bit like the guy
who dreamed he was a butterfly. If
it was an completely accurate dream
(as simulation technology could
allow), then the butterfly is given
the ability to "ressurect" to become
a human. Similarly, advanced "omega
point" civilizations or Jupiter
brains may choose to explore
potentiality for consciousness and
thus try to experience the lives of
other beings. Such an intelligence,
existing in any physical universe
that provides infinite energy/
infinite computing power has the
ability to experience the life of
every other being anywhere in any
universe (assuming
computationalism). If one of these
exists anywhere, the it provides us
the potential to wake up as it, just
as the butterfly has the potential to
wake up as a human. Such a being may
even feel compelled to provide a
pleasant afterlife given all the
suffering that exists in the physical
worlds, although this point is more
contentious.
I
mention this because I have
discussed tech resurrection,
as, at least, an
intellectual phenomenon, over
at the Kurzweil forum. There is
an enthusiast for
technologically based
resurrection, on the forum,
has produced a moderately,
large, website, that presents
this concept. Most people will
say this in impossible, and who
am I to dispute them? But I
still find the topic
interesting, none the less.
That is interesting to me. What
is the website?
My suspicion is that there
is some feature of the universe
that acts as a substrate for
all actions and characteristics
and records it all. I am trying
to peg it down to the Planck
length as sort of a storage
cell. The styllus to read-write
could be anything from photons
to neutrinos, that would write
to the planck length. Who knows
if it is even plausible, but I
sort of like it anyway. I like
NDE stuff too, and try to sort
the most cogent stories from
the least cogent.
Whether or not it is recorded
or extractable in this universe
is immaterial. If the universe
is infinitely large or infinitely
varied, we each reappear an infinite
number of times. There are a
countably infinite number of
programs, and for any given level of
complexity, there is a finite number
of possible programs shorter than
some length. Any consciousness we
simulate is the consciousness of
something that exists somewhere else
in the infinitely varied/infinitely
large universe, and if the universe
is really this big, then someone else
far away could simulate you perfectly
without having to extract a record of
you. Just running Bruno's UDA for a
long enough time "ressurects"
everyone, we are all contained in
that short program.
To which, one is tempted to respond: So what? If there is all
this simulation going on, what reason is there to suppose it is
being done by being anything like us or that the worlds in which
the simulations take place (the "real" ones, if there are any)
are anything like this one. You are simply led back to trying
to discover what are possible worlds, where "possible" can be
anything from "familiar enough I can understand it" to
"nomologically possible" to "not containing contradictions".
Brent
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