On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 12:16:33 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
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> On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 7:36:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 9 Jan 2019, at 15:13, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
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>> On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 4:06:08 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 Jan 2019, at 22:27, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Why - in  numerical reality (UD)  - can't there be vampires, werewolves, 
>>> that sort of things? They can certainly be "created" in computer 
>>> simulations of stories of them …
>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly, that is why we need to recover physics by a notion of 
>>> “bettable”. If you see a vampire, not explained by the notion of 
>>> observable, you can infer that either:
>>>
>>> Mechanism is false, or
>>> You are dreaming, or
>>> You belong to a “malevolent” simulation (à-la Bostrom, made by angry 
>>> descendent who want to fail us on reality).
>>>
>>> Fortunately, we don’t see vampires, and up to know, thanks to QM, we see 
>>> exactly what mechanism predicts.
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Seth Lloyd of course says the universe is a quantum computer. 
>>
>>
>> That would entail Mechanism, but Mechanism entails that the physical 
>> universe is not a quantum computer, unless our substitution level is so low 
>> that we need to emulate the whole physical reality (not just the observable 
>> one) to get “my” consciousness. The term “universe” is also problematical 
>> to me.
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>>
>>
>>
>> But what if there are qualia in addition to (or combined with) quanta as 
>> the fundamental elements of nature. 
>>
>>
>> You can always speculate a non existing theory to “contradict” an 
>> existing theory. Why assumes something when we can explain it without 
>> assuming it. What if the thermodynamic of the car motion works only if 
>> invisible horses pull the car?
>>
>> Nature is also a imprecise term. All my scepticism on the existence of 
>> nature comes from the observation of nature. The physical science are not 
>> the metaphysical science, unless we postulate (weak) materialism, which is 
>> inconsistent with mechanism.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Then the quantum computer - a purely quantum information processing 
>> (QuIP) machine - needs to be upgraded to a qualium(+quantum) 
>> experience(+information) processing (QuEP) machine.
>>
>>
>> With mechanism, the qualia are “easily” explained by the necessary 
>> variant of provability logic in G*. To add “material” to this would entail 
>> the existence of infinitely many p.zombie in arithmetic, and makes both 
>> consciousness and matter into irreductible mystery. What is the goal?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The universe (now a QuEP machine) could have conscious beings who make up 
>> stories about vampires and werewolves.
>>
>>
>> The arithmetical universe? Yes. Necessarily so with the computationalist 
>> hypothesis.
>>
>> Some of your remark shows that you have not studied my contribution. To 
>> avoid repetition, it might be useful to study it. Just criticising a 
>> conclusion because we have another theory is not that much interesting, 
>> especially when the “other theory” is not presented in a specific way (as 
>> your use of many links illustrates).
>>
>> All what I can say is that you are logically coherent: you believe in 
>> matter and you believe that mechanism is false. But the empirical facts go 
>> in the opposite direction. The empirical test of the existence of primary 
>> matter that I have given fails up to now.The world would be Newtonian, 
>> Mechanism would be judged reasonably refuted. Gödel + EPR-Everett saves 
>> Mechanism.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>  
>
> I don't think your theory refutes the existence of matter. (That would be 
> a surprise to materials scientists, fro example.)
>
> At best, your theory (universal numbers, machines, dovetailers) is a 
> possible *denotational semantics* for experiential processing, which *takes 
> place in matter*.
>
> (But that still can be a contribution, but it is by no means the complete 
> picture.)
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>
> - pt
>
>
>
A better way: *Matter does explain consciousness, once the true nature of 
matter is appreciated.*

- pt 

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