> On 11 Feb 2019, at 09:42, Philip Thrift <cloudver...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Interest in the psychical (experience, consciousness) aspect in all > biological levels has sort of taken off recently, it seems. > > cf. > > Cosmopsychism, Micropsychism, and the Grounding Relation > <https://philpapers.org/go.pl?id=GOFCMA&proxyId=&u=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpapers.org%2Farchive%2FGOFCMA.pdf> > Philip Goff <https://philpapers.org/s/Philip%20Goff> > > > Language is not experience/consciousness of course, but I think there is some > sort of connection between the existence of protolanguages (of lower level > animals) and protoconsciousnesses.
The presence of a language isa symptom of Turing universality, or simpler. I tend to believe in bacteria’s consciousness only because of molecular genetics, which shows them to be small natural computer. We can program them, actually. But that consciousness is in arithmetic, and simple universal machine are only their differentiating starting point, in their histories. Now, an eukaryotic cell seems to be a descendent of small colony of bacteria (and virus possibly), and a pluricellualr is a a colony of clone of bacteria, + bacteria. Bacteria still rules life on this planet, and that is for long! Bruno > > > - pt > > > > On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 6:42:20 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > I do not hold to the idea of panpsychism and the existence of God is > something that can be dismissed with no loss of understanding of reality. It > is harder to know about consciousness in living things. I hesitate in some > ways to think that prokaryotes are conscious in the way we are, just greatly > diminished. My dogs are conscious beings I am pretty convinced, but I think > their mental landscape is smaller than that of a human. So somewhere in that > spectrum consciousness may emerge. Plants may have some form of > consciousness, and they do signal and appear to have some level of awareness > of their surroundings. > > Consciousness is in a way a sort of bootstrap process where a being generates > an internal representation of themselves and themselves in this world. It is > then a sort of virtual process, and one where there being encodes a > representation of themselves within themselves. I think it has some form of > truncated self-reference such as Gödel's theorem. It might serve to give an > estimate on say Chaitin's halting probability so the being is able to take a > risk. This may be extended in part to all sort of complex self-adaptive > systems, in particular biological organisms. > > LC > > On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 5:34:01 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Two recent books: > > The First Minds: Caterpillars, Karyotes, and Consciousness > Arthur S. Reber > https://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Minds.html?id=RBLEugEACAAJ > <https://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Minds.html?id=RBLEugEACAAJ> > > Brain-Mind: From Neurons to Consciousness and Creativity > Paul Thagard > https://books.google.com/books/about/Brain_Mind.html?id=jJjHvAEACAAJ > <https://books.google.com/books/about/Brain_Mind.html?id=jJjHvAEACAAJ> > > via > When Did Consciousness Begin? > Paul Thagard > https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/hot-thought/201901/when-did-consciousness-begin > > <https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/hot-thought/201901/when-did-consciousness-begin> > > Thagard's 10 hypotheses: > > 1. Consciousness has always existed, because God is conscious and eternal. > > 2. Consciousness began when the universe formed, around 13.7 billion years > ago. > > 3. Consciousness began with single-celled life, around 3.7 billion years ago > (Reber). > > 4. Consciousness began with multicellular plants, around 850 million years > ago. > > 5. Consciousness began when animals such as jellyfish got thousands of > neurons, around 580 million years ago. > > 6. Consciousness began when insects and fish developed larger brains with > about a million neurons (honeybees) or 10 million neurons (zebrafish) around > 560 million years ago. > > 7. Consciousness began when animals such as birds and mammals developed much > larger brains with hundreds of millions neurons, around 200 million years > ago. [Thagard] > > 8. Consciousness began with humans, homo sapiens, around 200,000 years ago. > > 9. Consciousness began when human culture became advanced, around 3000 years > ago (Julian Jaynes). > > 10. Consciousness does not exist, as it is just a scientific mistake > (behaviorism} or a “user illusion” (Daniel Dennett). > > - pt > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org > <mailto:email@example.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.