Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any 
less important to say.  You all judge some on this list for doing the exact 
same thing you are.  If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging 
bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have 
lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a 
terrible loss.  I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject 
even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is 
not the easy thing to say.  She had every right to say what she did as everyone 
else did to sling childish insults back. One line "snips" are the trademark of 
a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject.  Yes, 
everyone is here to provide information and support.  Yes, everyone has 
differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak 
their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. 
We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it.  If 
you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try 
to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in 
this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this 
argument, not just one.  Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group 
and not an individual.  I believe we've all done that at one time or another.  
And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two 
people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list.  If any 
of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did 
start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but 
I can assure you one'll find just as many (if not more) people of 
the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable 
viruses is not a good situation, regardless  of how well the intentions are.  
Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how 
good intentions go.  


Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing.  I just 
read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw.  Look, as I have 
stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda 
or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put 
in tough places with tough decisions to make.  If you're forced to declaw, or 
if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they 
were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision.  
Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a 
SHELTER, a non-profit organization dedicated to rescuing and helping otherwise 
helpless animals, making these choices across the board.  There's a big 
difference there and in an individual owner having to make tough decisions.  It 
sounds like (and I'm just stating fact here, not passing judgement on the open 
forum) that the shelter in question declaws across the board (with the exeption 
of FeLV/FIV+) every time a cat comes in the shelter.   Same for mixing.  They 
mix every positive cat that comes through, regardless of which diagnosis they 
have.  That was the concern.  Not individual choices that have to be made.  
Diane R. was in a tough spot, and had to make a tough decision.  I don't know 
that I would have made a different one if I were in her place.

-----Original Message-----

From: Kat 


Sent: Wed, Sep 26 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: list matters

  Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to  better 
get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot  by throwing 
flames!  And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe  that's exactly 
what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us  about tolerance and how 
to make changes effectively.     I might have joined in the discussion with my 
experiences, but not under  the current judgemental/jump all 
over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies  that have been going on.    Kat (Mew 
Jersey)     On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:    > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 
2007 09:51:15 -0400  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  > Reply-To:  > To:  > Subject: Re: 
list matters  >   > And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, 
that "our"  > includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin 
Luther  > King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not 
 > merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for  > the 
appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here  > has the 
right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all  > have opinions, 
and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether  > you like them or 
agree with them or not.  I'm relatively new to the  > group, I'll admit, but 
you lose your fundamental credibility when you  > start trying to silence 
certain people because you don't agree with  > them. Look, I think many of us, 
some of whom are too shy to speak  > out, are horrified at the thought of a 
shelter declawing all their  > cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its 
fair to single out  > Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have 
every right  > to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe 
amputation.  >     

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