Hello all

On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Austin Donnelly wrote:

> On Monday, 1 Nov 1999, Michael Natterer wrote:
> > <shift>+mouse2  --> copy & paste the selection mask or
> >                     copy & paste the selection itself (if it's floated)
> > <ctrl>+mouse2   --> cut & paste the selection ifself
> >                     (works only if it's floated)
> But, people like dragging with mouse1 - its more of a psychological
> think.  Also, not everyone has a 3 button mouse, so putting too much
> on mouse2 is probably bad.

Gimp is a X11/UNIX program, which is designed to make use of three mouse
buttons. I say get a three button mouse or don't use Gimp. It's a ton
easier to use the middle mouse button than to remember a trillion mod key

> I realise distinguishing between mouse1 click, double click and drag
> make the event logic more complex, but I think it's worth it in
> reduced number of "help me!" emails.

I think the best way to avoid help mails is to have a system. Which I
think I'm writing just now if I remember correctly ;-).

> Note also alt+mouse1 drag on a selection moved the mask itself, so
> this feature already exists.  

Well see in your own mail below where you say use PS mod keys/short cuts.
When you move a PS selection you move the selection it self. You aren't
making it into a floating selection. See more below. I'm just saying use
"to float" if you want to have a floating selection. 

> Sven Neumann wrote:
> > So my proposal is:
> >  <Shift> is used for line mode in all paint tools
> >  <Ctrl>  is the default tool toggle key
> >  <Alt>   limits your moevent to 15 degree directions
> Check what PhotoShop uses, and use that.  I have hazy memories of
> MacPaint and SuperPaint using <shift> to limit to 15 degrees.

Well what about how you move a selection is PhotoShop? Gimp uses the total
opposite of PhotoShop and many other Win/Mac image manipulation programs.

The reason why Gimp uses to float when you drag a selection is because it's
still there since the days we didn't have layers. When you don't have
layers you want a float to be able to do selections and masks with in the
floating selection. 

Today this is very confusing --> the user drags a selection gets a float,
if he then try to make another selection (to e.g add) she will get a mask
with in the float. She will most likely start to say four letter words
now and leave Gimp to rest in peace. 

I say if you want a float use "to float", don't "force" an unaware user
into floating selections.

Furthermore it is very important to be able to transform the selection (not
the selection with substance). Imagine that you want to select a round
traffic sign in a photo taken from an angel. This is done by making a
circle selection and the shear it. Today this is very cumbersome since the
transform tool will transform the substance of the selection and not the
selection it self. (Yes I have tried to use quick mask and make a
transform in the "red" image. It doesn't work or at least it doesn't work
in my CVS very uptodate Gimp. This is still a work around and not a good

> Michael Natterer wrote:
> > Comments, flames???
> I think we have larger problems than UI ones right now, and I suggest
> people start fixing them.  Eg:
>     - shrink wrap redraws the entire image 3 times (yes, 3!)
>     - redundant redraws in a number of other places
> These _really_ bite when working with (say) 3000x3000 images.

Yea they probably do, but I think Mitch is a UI programmer and wanted
flames or Comments on the UI thing. Note: I'm not saying that we shouldn't
fix the redraw problem. They are also important, a slow application is not
user friendly.

Cheers and take care Olof

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