Re: [CGUYS] Well-thought analysis of MSFT - Michael Crichton
Do you have an actual argument to make or are insults all you offer? Remember, Dr. Crichton died in 2008 and had not revised his position before his death. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 11:16 PM, TPiwowar wrote: On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:51 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: What makes you sure? Do you have any evidence to support that view? Is there anything materially different about our understanding of climate between then and now that is especially compelling? I'm sure that in lalaland nothing has changed since the last ice age. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
Why would you suppose I am not being serious (real)? FDR (and his allies) dealt a mortal blow to our system of a limited government of enumerated powers. His economic policies whipsawed private enterprise, badly hampering any ability to plan long term and thus to re-invest in the economy when they don't know the rules or have any confidence that the rules will not suddenly and arbitrarily change. He took a bad situation and made it worse, and only the wartime build up put the economy back to work, and the post war boom was the result not of his earlier actions, but a function of being the only industrial power still standing. Matthew On Aug 3, 2009, at 1:55 AM, Constance Warner wrote: Oh, do get real. In the 1930's, there was 25% unemployment [much higher in some places], starvation, ecological collapse, foreign wars on the horizon, large numbers of internally displaced people, native fascism, a growing U.S. communist party [partly supported by the Soviet Union], and an incipient class war. Working conditions in some places in this country [like my home state] were basically Early Industrial Revolution--and, if you examine the history, it really was as bad as you think. Things were going to hell very, very fast, and it took drastic action to drag the country back from the brink. Complete recovery took awhile, but the early measures did help. The New Deal saved the country from a lot worse situation than we have at present. In fact, FDR's most notable achievement may have been saving capitalism; to a lot of people at the time, communism and similar systems were looking pretty good, compared to the mess that they blamed, rightly or wrongly, on laissez-faire capitalism and Wall Street speculators. (And no cracks about communism is what we have now, please. As an amateur Kremlinologist with a special interest in the satellite countries--remember them?--I know the difference, and so do you.) I'm a little chagrined that I let myself get baited into joining the fray. I just have to believe that the statements about FDR ruining the economy are something in the matter of a joke, or at least an exaggeration. But in my home state, the scars of the Great Depression are still visible, so I don't think it's particularly funny. And as for worship: I don't care who worships what, really. I'm actually more concerned about exaggerations and outright lies about programs like the cash for clunkers program and other proposals of this administration. I won't even speculate about the motives of people who lie and exaggerate, because they're sufficiently evident not to need further exposition here. The economy may be in better shape than it was last fall, and some of the current programs seem to be having some effect. But the chances are NOT ZERO that we could still have another Great Depression; and certain news [sic] reporters, by trying to tear down any Democratic program they see, and in particular by lying about those programs, seem to be pushing us toward the edge of the cliff. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
Did I say Hoover was a hero? That is a straw man argument worthy of Tom. Matthew On Aug 3, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: So Hoover was the real hero? You must drink the Kool-Aid every 15 minutes. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Why would you suppose I am not being serious (real)? FDR (and his allies) dealt a mortal blow to our system of a limited government of enumerated powers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
Tom; More of your insults is all you have to offer. I think I am done bothering with you. Sent from my phone. On Aug 3, 2009, at 7:44 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 3, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: Why would you suppose I am not being serious (real)? Because it is you MO. You make outrageous claims with nothing to back them up and then you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge facts presented by others. You totally waste everybody's time. Hence the analogy to the birthers. As much as Betty's response is praiseworthy and I'm sure appreciated by many List members, she is sowing seeds on barren land. *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Just Imagine
Imagine this: 1. We would not be looking at record deficits 2. We would not be elevating tax cheats to positions of power. 3. The president would not be calling police responding to 911 calls stupid. 4. We would not be about to confirm a Supreme Court justice who does not accept a right to self defense, who thinks foreign law (outside of treaties) has bearing on the US Constitution, and who flat out lies to congress to get confirmed. 5. The government would own a majority stakes in GM 6. We would not need a site such as this: /http://joebidensaidthat.com/ Yeah, just imagine. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:56 PM, TPiwowar wrote: Just imagine if John McCain had won the election boobs like this would be running the country and we would be facing the prospect of our grandchildren speaking Chinese instead of English. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Selection bias?
Found this on an organization career interest site: This application cannot be successfully completed with a Mac. Must have some really sharp web designers there, eh? Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
FDR On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:36 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: By the way, who was this last President who totaled our economy? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
You said totaled, not damaged. Lots of P's have damaged it, R D both. Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Carter, Nixon, Johnson. FDR was the last one to do such serious, systemic, harm that it the effects are still active today. On Aug 2, 2009, at 6:36 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Matthew Taylortaylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote: FDR That's who I thought you meant. Hadda be a democrat, right? I was thinkin' of someone else. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Wireless keyboard w. built-in mouse/ pointer for mac??
Use a Wireless trackball. On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:15 PM, db wrote: (So would having a keyboard with a separate mouse as there is no where to place the mouse but one's lap.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
There were monuments to Lenin, Stalin, Hussein, Mao, et. al. Your point? On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:35 PM, TPiwowar wrote: On Aug 2, 2009, at 6:49 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: FDR was the last one to do such serious, systemic, harm that it the effects are still active today. That's why a grateful nation built a huge monument to honor him. I know, I know, there is no such monument in lalaland. BTW, it really is a great monument. If you haven't visited, put it on your bucket list. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Well-thought analysis of MSFT - Michael Crichton
Interesting you should choose the Late Mr. Crichton. Many in the AGW Alarmist camp revile his heretical views that consensus != science. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:44 PM, TPiwowar wrote: The greatest challenges facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or, as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance. . . . Michael Crichton * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
Reverend; If you don't think FDR is worshiped by many you are not paying attention. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: There are differences between shines and monuments/memorials. One is for the purposes of remembrance one is for the purpose of worship. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Well-thought analysis of MSFT - Michael Crichton
To amplify my point: http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-ourenvironmentalfuture.html On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: Interesting you should choose the Late Mr. Crichton. Many in the AGW Alarmist camp revile his heretical views that consensus != science. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:44 PM, TPiwowar wrote: The greatest challenges facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or, as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance. . . . Michael Crichton * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gubmint computer grab
Agreed. My point was that what some worship, others loathe. A statue / monument does not make someone great, it only makes them popular with those as had the pull to erect the monument. Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Anyone or anything can be and are worshipped. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Well-thought analysis of MSFT - Michael Crichton
What makes you sure? Do you have any evidence to support that view? Is there anything materially different about our understanding of climate between then and now that is especially compelling? Matthew On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:35 PM, TPiwowar wrote: On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: To amplify my point: http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-ourenvironmentalfuture.html Reasonable and thoughtful. However, this speech was given over 4-1/2 years ago. Since then scientists have accumulated much additional evidence. If he were alive today I'm sure he would revise his position. Of course in lalaland we are invincible. Confident that Captain America will fix it using his super cooling breath or something like that. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless
No, it is a corporation exercising on behalf of its stockholders the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Matthew On Jul 25, 2009, at 5:17 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Bribery works, and money flowing to elected representatives from corporations is nothing but that. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Yes, it is a bit of jargon. Strangely, none of them can produce a title or deed of ownership. If I best you in some challenge I might say I own you. Does not make you my property. Matthew On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:59 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: No one denied there isn't a market. It's just not something you can own, at least not in any literal sense. Marketing types even use the term owning the market. It is exactly what they strive to do. Literally. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?
Hmm - I don't normally go for coffee but ... What shops are these? Matthew On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:09 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't believe anyone has actually answered the exciting question yet. We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And the shops are quite busy. Jeff M * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
Interestingly enough when I got my economics degree I did not have a grade problem. In the historical example there often was a deed of sorts to a commons - a provision in the royal charter of a town would designate certain lands as commons as the town was recognized as having a corporate existence separate from any individual townspeople. This is distinct from a market, wherein the crown might grant a monopoly on trade out of a port or such to a foreign land, but could not control what happened on the other end. Matthew On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:47 AM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote: Yes, it is a bit of jargon. Strangely, none of them can produce a title or deed of ownership. A circular argument. By definition The Commons have no deed of ownership. Circling back to my original comment: some of you have an obvious problem understanding the concept of The Commons. Your responses have proved this to be true. QED. You are lucky I'm not grading your papers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On the contrary Tom - you clearly do not understand the concept. The Market is nothing more than a convenient term for the aggregation of all the individual transactions and interactions under examination. A company does not own the market in a monopoly, they control or dominate the resource at the core of the transactions. By your logic if I invent a widget or widgets and process by which they are used that grants a new or vastly improved capability and there by gain a monopoly I am abusing a commons - a commons that did not exist until I invented it. Matthew On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:23 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: This is just flat out wrong. No one owns a market. You are expressing propriety where none exists. How do you own an abstract concept? I think you have a problem understanding what economists call the Commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_commons Markets are a common good from which we all benefit and which we must all protect (or suffer the consequences). When one company essentially owns a market it is called a monopoly and is an abuse of the Commons. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Bans Palm Pre from iTunes
On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:01 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: By your logic if I invent a widget or widgets and process by which they are used that grants a new or vastly improved capability and there by gain a monopoly I am abusing a commons - a commons that did not exist until I invented it. Not by my logic. What I stated is the way it is viewed by economists. Demonstrate please. Certainly your wikipedia link does not define commons as such. A patent is exactly a limited grant of monopoly rights. No - it is a limited protection for specific intellectual property. I can have a patent for a specific type of flying toy, but not protection for all toys that fly - and the latter is the market - those buyers and sellers concerned with flying toys. It is a deal made between society and inventors so that the society may benefit from the work of inventors. Each contributes something of value so that a deal may be struck. In the end the patent expires and the inventor must return their exclusive part of the market to the Commons. No - in the end others can make use of the inventor's invention after the agreed upon exclusive period is over. Other folks still don't get to sell Widget brand thingamabobs - they can just sell thingamabobs under their own brand that are copies. For those that claim that the market is not a thing, your example is a great counter-example. If the market were not a thing then how could it be given away in a patent-grant transaction? The market is not given away - the patent holder has exclusive rights to offer a specific thing into the market. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Batch downloading of bank check images
Why would we object? We might not use the restroom in the merchant's establishment, but the cost for it is folded into the merchants cost of doing business and thus reflected in the price. Not every minor cost should be itemized or made a la carte. We do have a choice, most of us preferred the alternative. Remember cash discounts for gas, etc.? Was not worth the hassle for most folks and most gas stations did away with it. Matthew On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Constance Warner wrote: It's true that the credit card companies and the banks provide services to merchants and their customers, but for a price: interest and other fees for the customers, and fees for the merchants. But, in the form of higher prices [which merchants must charge to cover the cost of credit card fees], you're paying the credit card companies even if you NEVER use a credit card. [The merchants really have no other alternative; the banks and credit card companies are the only ones with any power in this situation.] I guess I'm surprised that Libertarians and their friends don't object to this; they're paying for something they're not getting, and they have no choice in the matter. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Advertising for cell phones
I thought it was where kids were warehoused until their parents got home from work and could then teach their kids to parrot back the homework sent home with them. You mean the kids were supposed to learn something beyond playground / lunchroom rules while at school? Matthew On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: And some people wonder why our school system here in the US is so lacking. On-the-job behavior should have been learned in grade school. After all, schooling is, or was supposed to be, learning to do a job and how to act and be productive in adult life. Jeff M On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:16 AM, t.piwowar wrote: This is true of almost anybody on their first job. They have to learn that on-the-job behavior is different from off-the-job behavior. Up to now they have only experienced the latter. That's the point of a first job. On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Mike Sloane wrote: And we had to make it absolutely clear that doing any of that stuff while driving county vehicles was grounds for dismissal. The kids were taken aback when this was discussed - constant yakking and texting are such normal parts of their lives that it never occurred to them that they weren't supposed to be doing it while working and that the county pays them to work, not do idle chatter. (For most of them, the job with the commission is their first employment experience.) They are permitted to use the cellphones for emergencies when away from the vehicles or when the truck radios are out of range - they are often working in very remote areas of the county. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Has Apple Crossed the Line?
Interesting - usually it is libertarians who take a strong freedom of expression position. The Liberals and Conservatives just argue about which expression to ban. Now this libertarian thinks consensual expression is fine, and thinks Apple is well within its rights to choose not to facilitate its sale in all cases. Matthew On Jun 26, 2009, at 12:37 PM, t.piwowar wrote: * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
What are good tools for imbedding metadata in files that would not otherwise have such? On Jun 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, t.piwowar wrote: If you embed metadata in each file * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MIT's futuristic, networked bus stop design
Yes, many cities have roads paid for by tax dollars that the citizens are not allowed to freely use. How is this consistent with principals of liberty? What you call subsidy I call hiding from the taxpayer the true cost of the service delivered, convincing them they are getting a bargain when in truth they are not. It takes governments to truly distort a marketplace, and governments can also restore a free market while ensuring that costs are born by those that impose them. Of course polluters should be prevented from polluting, and when that has failed made to pay the cost of restitution and clean up. If society decides through the framework of its representatives that carbon is a pollutant then tax it sufficient to offset the societal costs it imposes (and by taxing it get less of it) by raising the costs of things that rely on carbon. Matthew On May 28, 2009, at 3:01 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: For mass transit to work and not be a net drain it has to be survivable at a market price. Many cities have downtown areas where cars aren't permitted. The key word is PUBLIC transportation. Public transport benefits all, whether or not you use it. I don't know of a good transportation system that isn't subsidized, but there might be some. Assuming that mass transit has to be private, existing on the whims of the marketplace is naive. The free market fantasy is killing us with pollution and bankruptcy. Should all roads be toll roads? Of course not. There has to be a balance--and free WiFi with schedules. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MIT's futuristic, networked bus stop design
Nothing they can do to increase ridership will help so long as they operate under a model that has them loose money on each rider. You can't make it up in volume. Matthew On May 27, 2009, at 6:01 PM, db wrote: Nice gadget ... too bad that in times of increased ridership because of gas prices/ economy and funding issues, most city bus systems are facing budget shortfalls and service cutbacks... Expensive gee wiz bus tech gadgets ... will that help or make the $ problem worse? Honest question ... not sarcasm... db * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MIT's futuristic, networked bus stop design
No, volume hurts most public transit because the cost to serve additional passengers is greater than the revenue received from those passengers. Yes, you can make a bit more if you are filling mostly empty busses and train cars, but when you need to expand service to need greater demand you will loose money if the increase in demand can not generate sufficient revenue to pay the cost of expanded service. It is very simple math. Public utility models assume that on average every user covers their costs. Public transit in the US typically does not. Matthew On May 27, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Volume does help. The problem I see that they need to correct is a view of public transportation as ill suited to anyone with an income over the poverty level in some cities. Anyone will tell you that if you increase your volume you increase your profit. Most public transportation does not get into enough neighborhoods (not in my back yard) and reach enough people to make it truly cost effective. I lived in one city (when I was growing up) that did not reach our neighborhood with the bus for 15 years! My mother had a cleaning lady and if she could not drive or get a ride she had no way of getting to our house until they extended the bus routes. The other problem was they cut off the bus in the early afternoon. DUMB. Operating a public transportation service like a public utility might make better sense and try and reach more people Just a thought. Stewart At 07:25 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: Nothing they can do to increase ridership will help so long as they operate under a model that has them loose money on each rider. You can't make it up in volume. Matthew On May 27, 2009, at 6:01 PM, db wrote: Nice gadget ... too bad that in times of increased ridership because of gas prices/ economy and funding issues, most city bus systems are facing budget shortfalls and service cutbacks... Expensive gee wiz bus tech gadgets ... will that help or make the $ problem worse? Honest question ... not sarcasm... db * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] monitor suddenly won't work in new computer
Can you try the monitor on another computer? Even try it on the old one would be a valid test of the monitor's health. On May 20, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Kathy Bilton wrote: Hi - I just got a new little Compaq cheapie computer (CQ2009 Desktop PC) for my mom to replace her old one. I turned the old one off - monitor working just fine. Started hooking up the new computer (attached Envision monitor which has always worked perfectly, keyboard, etc.) Turned on the computer (light came on and it sounded OK) but when I tried to turn on the monitor - the light on it did not come on. The light on its power supply was on. I turned off computer. Did lots of plugging and ubplugging all to no avail. Any thoughts about what happened? I don't have another monitor to try on it, and am afraid to borrow one - as I wonder if the computer did something to cause the monitor not to work. Thanks for any help. My poor little mom was so looking forward to getting this set up!! Her old one had slowed to being unusable even after I did everything I oculd think of to try to get it working better. Please copy to me any answer as I get the digest. --Kathy * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] I wonder
I work at a community college. Well over half the laptops I see students sitting around with are Macs. ISTR reading a year ago that Macs dominated the market for college age student/family purchased (as opposed to college issued - there are some that do) laptops were Macs. In my social circle (a rather eclectic bunch) I can't recall the last time (it was over two years ago, that much I know) I saw someone take out a laptop at an event or party where it was not a Mac. Many of them also have desktop PC's as gamer machines or older ones converted to linux. As a pure anecdote at our local rec league soccer signup two weekends ago they had a pair of Macs running Bento tied into a roving registrar with a Bento app on his iPhone taking the registrations. In previous years it was all manual. Matthew On May 19, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: I've been doing a lot of traveling lately. I've been using many airports and ferries. I've also been paying attention to the laptops people are using. While I know the Mac market share is approaching 10% I found it strange the about 50% of the laptops I saw where Macs. Could be Mac users just like to travel more? Jeff M * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Java C++ - Quickest way to learn
Probably the best way is to just buy a book and start coding. As to what to code you could look around for an open source project to join. Parallel to this a class at the local community college will help credential you. Do you already have a clearance? Matthew On May 18, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Michael Drabick wrote: I am looking for the quickest way to get up to speed on these two programing languages, as I have become one of the victims of this troubled economy. I have been to a few Job fairs and every one wants Java and C++/C# programmers with clearances. It seems the government is the only one with money to spend and they want their projects done in those languages. I learned Fortran Basic decades ago so this shouldn't be that difficult. Any advise would be appreciated. Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Java C++ - Quickest way to learn
I don't think that Mozilla is Java based. Sourceforge would be the place to check to see what Java based open sourced projects are out there. Found an interesting link here that might prove useful: http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=229 On May 18, 2009, at 3:08 PM, Michael Drabick wrote: Matthew, No clearances, but do know of a back door to get one. Community College sounds like a good idea. Open Source - would Mozilla be one of those using Java? Mike Matthew Taylor wrote: Probably the best way is to just buy a book and start coding. As to what to code you could look around for an open source project to join. Parallel to this a class at the local community college will help credential you. Do you already have a clearance? Matthew On May 18, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Michael Drabick wrote: I am looking for the quickest way to get up to speed on these two programing languages, as I have become one of the victims of this troubled economy. I have been to a few Job fairs and every one wants Java and C++/C# programmers with clearances. It seems the government is the only one with money to spend and they want their projects done in those languages. I learned Fortran Basic decades ago so this shouldn't be that difficult. Any advise would be appreciated. Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] I wonder
I used to be, but I could not get much help wrt hardware - they mostly argued about which languages were better. On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, mike wrote: Anyone out there on a politics list? Do they ever break out into computer subjects? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] I wonder
If you still think Like Mac = Liberal then you have not been paying attention on this forum. On May 18, 2009, at 3:27 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: The old Mac versus Windows/DOS/PC flame wars have always been, in great part, about conservatives and liberals. The conservatives, politically, have always been perceived to be Mr. I'm A PC, while the liberals, politically, have always been the Mac guy. To me it is that simple, and it is still that way today. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Revealed Truth
I am not legally twisting anything, nor am I supporting the policy. You are simply starting from a conclusion and rejecting any logic incompatible with your conclusion. That has not place in law or science. I am not arguing what we did or did not do was right. I am not arguing what we did was useful. Neither of those opinions informs a discussion of what the controlling law is. Matthew On May 16, 2009, at 11:35 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: And so legally you twist the definition because certain members of the military agreed to have it done to them with their training. What contract did the prisoners at Guantanamo(sp) sign? And what about the law against any contract under duress? The argument is BS. Jeff M On May 16, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: The law in an ass, and always has been as it is an imperfect creation of an imperfect institution put in pl;ace by imperfect beings. Nevertheless, the law determines what is legal. Either you argue that every POTUS, ever chairman of the Joint Cheifs, and much of the senior command staff are criminals because they approved and implemented SERE and SERE = torture, or you can not argue that identical practices are criminal torture. There are many places where the common usage definition of a term does not match the legal definition, but in matters of law it is the legal definition that is controlling. Matthew On May 16, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: Yes, I've heard this argument, and it's stupid. Because we torture our own servicemen and call it training doesn't change what it is. However, it is a good game. I wonder how many other definitions we can change to suit our legal needs? Jeff M On May 16, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: The problem is the legal reasoning that says it was not torture is quite sound - the key being that as I understand it we did nothing that we do not do to our own servicemen in the resistance portion of SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training. If the assumption is that we are not torturing our own servicemen, then doing the same to others might be extremely poor judgement in the circumstances, might be held to be wrong for a variety of reasons, but it still would not be torture. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Revealed Truth
The problem is the legal reasoning that says it was not torture is quite sound - the key being that as I understand it we did nothing that we do not do to our own servicemen in the resistance portion of SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training. If the assumption is that we are not torturing our own servicemen, then doing the same to others might be extremely poor judgement in the circumstances, might be held to be wrong for a variety of reasons, but it still would not be torture. Matthew On May 16, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: What? As an American, where is it my, or our job to protect Russians by performing torture on others who aren't attacking the USA? Sorry, but my feelings are that torture is torture. Try and rename it and rationalize it all you want. It still, with our history of wars and trials, a war crime for all who participated. I was just following orders, is a BS argument. As humans we are all born with this amazing thing, choice. The military is bound by legal orders. When torture is concerned that's been pretty much a no brainer. Ignoring established military conduct and USA law shows a complete contempt or disregard for USA laws and morals and the idea of right and wrong. If someone brings up 9/11, remember that old saying, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Jeff M * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Have you seen this net?
When did you last see it? What do you mean by stole it anyway? When did we have our internet that we now do not have and was taken from us by illicit means? Matthew On May 16, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: greedy corporations that stole our Internet * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Revealed Truth
The law in an ass, and always has been as it is an imperfect creation of an imperfect institution put in pl;ace by imperfect beings. Nevertheless, the law determines what is legal. Either you argue that every POTUS, ever chairman of the Joint Cheifs, and much of the senior command staff are criminals because they approved and implemented SERE and SERE = torture, or you can not argue that identical practices are criminal torture. There are many places where the common usage definition of a term does not match the legal definition, but in matters of law it is the legal definition that is controlling. Matthew On May 16, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Jeff Miles wrote: Yes, I've heard this argument, and it's stupid. Because we torture our own servicemen and call it training doesn't change what it is. However, it is a good game. I wonder how many other definitions we can change to suit our legal needs? Jeff M On May 16, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: The problem is the legal reasoning that says it was not torture is quite sound - the key being that as I understand it we did nothing that we do not do to our own servicemen in the resistance portion of SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training. If the assumption is that we are not torturing our own servicemen, then doing the same to others might be extremely poor judgement in the circumstances, might be held to be wrong for a variety of reasons, but it still would not be torture. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Revealed Truth
You bought that one? On May 10, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: As BHO recently announced, Science is back. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Are old LPs worth anything?
I should think ebay would give a good idea of the market price. On May 9, 2009, at 2:37 PM, db wrote: Is there a website you can search for LP value on? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Saving Web pages in Firefox
What OS do you run? Under OS X you can just print to PDF and get a pretty good copy. If you want to descend links then Acrobat will capture a site for you. On May 5, 2009, at 2:13 PM, computerg...@att.net wrote: Hello all. I would like to save web pages in firefox. When I try to do so, it only saves the images, none of the text. Is there a way to save all this information? I use Firefox 2.0, and believe I save them as a web page. Thanks for any reply, Bill. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Silverlight
How about non standard html coding? I have lost track of the number of web apps that will only run on IIS and only work client side on IE. Matthew On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Tony B wrote: Can you name a single example of that? Probably not, because even Windows itself runs just fine on e.g. Macs. Not so for OS X - well, not easily anyway. Silverlight is still fairly new, but it works on all platforms. It's specious to claim that someday in the future when it becomes popular they'll throw some switch and make it only work in Windows. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: Tony B wrote: Actually, Silverlight is supposed to be an alternative to Adobe's ubiquitous Flash. In fact, it's the *only* alternative, as nobody else has even attempted to offer one. I thought you were all opposed to monopolies and all in favor of alternatives? Are you naive or just making believe you are naive? We've all seen how MS does things like lure the public in with an alternative to something and then alters it so that it only works for Windows users. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First OS X Botnet Said to be Activating
This is what is known in the UNIX world as an honor virus. You have to put in place software you know to be illegitimate and give it administrative access to install, or do something otherwise known to be self destructive. If I were dumb enough to do this I could discover that shock of shock my enterprise heavily firewalled role restricted servers are vulnerable. Got root / admin + malware = got security issue. Matthew On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: Mac owners who downloaded pirated (free) versions of iWork '09 and Photoshop CS4 - said to be 20,000 downloads - also received the iServices trojan. The trojan has reportedly begun to activate for DSS attacks. Details: http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/04/17/mac.based.botnet.active/ Don't much pity those who d/l pirated software, but it is disturbing to see OS X vulnerabilities exploited (even though this trojan requires human stupidity to actually install it). Thank you, Mark Snyder * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First OS X Botnet Said to be Activating
Agreed. Still makes it an honor virus. They KNEW the software was not legit and they gave it admin access to install. Any one know if a virus / malware scan using clamx-av or such would have caught it before installation? Matthew On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:53 PM, mike wrote: Right, they download some infected torrent, input their password to install the program they want to install...and with it, the trojan. But they don't have to keep being in root/admin to have the now installed trojan to run. On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matthew Taylor taylorsmatt...@gmail.comwrote: But they need root / admin access to install on a properly run machine. The trouble with trying to make things idiot proof is that idiots are so persistent and ingenious. On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:17 PM, mike wrote: Trouble is, these botnets don't need root to run. On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Matthew Taylor taylorsmatt...@gmail.comwrote: This is what is known in the UNIX world as an honor virus. You have to put in place software you know to be illegitimate and give it administrative access to install, or do something otherwise known to be self destructive. If I were dumb enough to do this I could discover that shock of shock my enterprise heavily firewalled role restricted servers are vulnerable. Got root / admin + malware = got security issue. Matthew On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: Mac owners who downloaded pirated (free) versions of iWork '09 and Photoshop CS4 - said to be 20,000 downloads - also received the iServices trojan. The trojan has reportedly begun to activate for DSS attacks. Details: http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/04/17/mac.based.botnet.active/ Don't much pity those who d/l pirated software, but it is disturbing to see OS X vulnerabilities exploited (even though this trojan requires human stupidity to actually install it). Thank you, Mark Snyder * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Macbook Pro right mouse in XP?
No special software should be needed. I use a logitech trackman marble (a track ball) and have used mice as well. They just worked. What mouse are you using? If you are doing a p2v conversion of an already activated copy it should not prove an issue. One good way is to hook up an external drive and p2v it under Windows (with VMware's free utility) to that drive. Then just copy the VM over to your Mac once back in OS X. Matthew On Apr 13, 2009, at 5:15 PM, Fred Jones wrote: I ended up using Bootcamp and installed Windows XP without any trouble on my new Macbook Pro. Everything seems fine except I don't seem to have a right mouse button when I'm in Windows XP. I understand that shift-F10 is a keyboard shortcut,but I would really like to use the mouse for this. I noticed a freeware program called Apple Mouse Utility that might work? Does anyone have any suggestions for enabling right mouse action in Windows XP? I was also wondering if I tried to run Windows XP using VirtualBox,Fusion or Parallels if Microsoft Windows XP activation would have a problem since I already validated XP on a separate partition. Seems that the license should allow using Windows XP both ways since it would be installed on the same computer? Not quite a MFB yet, but I will say so far everything just works on the Mac side and the MBP is a very cool computer. As always - Thanks for any help! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Remote login tool /
I think Windows remote desktop might do it. Aqua Connect should as well - I think the trial is free. On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:15 PM, db wrote: Sorry that I am always asking for OS X recommendations but never the less ... here is another one: If I wanted to be able to login and remotely control an OS X iMac (Leopard) from a XP win PC is that possible and if so what application would be best for that purpose? (I think Timbucktu is only used for remote login between Macs?) db * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
Yup - it is ultimately game play that sustains interest in a game system. The rest is chrome. On Apr 1, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Video quality, audio quality, number of voices, smoothness and responsiveness, connectivity, none of that irrelevant crap really matters in gameplay. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
No - I am saying, as one with decades professionally in and out of academic environments, that the overwhelming majority of classroom settings are inhospitable to both the physical profile and battery life of a 17 inch laptop. A smaller laptop that will actually fit on a standard class chair/desk, especially one in a lecture hall, is a vastly superior choice for what you will be doing in a classroom setting. Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad for whatever the need is. The best of both worlds. Thus, by first rationally analyzing the problem, you end up with a better solution. In this case it could be PC or Mac depending on the software needed. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:58 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: - I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard. Not in class you don't. At home you use a real keyboard and any of a number of inexpensive flat panel monitors. Once again, you're telling me what I need and don't need, which has been the basic McFan response here. The response is not, Right, Apple doesn't have that at this point, I wish they did, it's Gawd, you're just too stupid to know your own needs, so we'll tell you what they are. This is pretty much the definition of hubris. Why is mighty Apple unable to produce a $699 laptop (especially when they don't even have to pay for the OS that sits on it)? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Different definition of budget. When you as an adult buy a pair of shoes, do you buy the cheap ones that will wear out in a year or two, or good quality ones that with care will last a decade or more? When you buy a power tool that you plan to use a lot do you buy a Walmart special that will die with heavy use or spend more to get a solid tool that will outlast you (I still have some of my father's power tools that work great)? Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can pay less up front at a long term cost. Understand the difference? Matthew On Mar 31, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: I will again ask the question that no one answers: Why is there no Apple laptop for those on a budget? It's clearly not impossible to build such a box, so there has to be some other reason. What is it? Too many Mac- owning busboys and homeless people (to use Tom's characterization of typical PC owners) would ruin the meticulously crafted image? If everyone could buy a Mac, the brand would cease to be cool? What is the reason? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 11:59 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: 1. What capabilities I need. 2. What capabilities I want. 3. What capabilities would be nice. Then I figure out what it costs to get first 1, then to add on 2, then to add on 3. Only at that point do I decide what I am willing to spend to get those things and if there is a match. New vs. used is way down near the bottom of 3. I would say that in the MS add, *NEW* and *SHINY* were at the top of the list. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a list versus with a list. When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows etc.) If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I revise my needs list. Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you because you will take what they tell you, you need. By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is foreign. It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I am not buying it. I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese. (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi national cars. I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.) Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the equation. The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00. That was the main point they wanted to make. All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they were trying to say. But you know what they say about assumptions. :-) Stewart At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That can be a self fulfilling limitation though - the TCO appears high because of the labor, limiting the number management will purchase, with the limited number being used to justify not buying the one unit and application that would lower the TCO ... Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. I fully understand that, but we don't have enough Macs on the network to justify the cost at this point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: 1. What capabilities I need. 2. What capabilities I want. 3. What capabilities would be nice. That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a laptop. You start with capabilities and needs. Yes, and if your needs include taking your computer to class or on the road, the very first conclusion one might reach is iMac is not the solution. Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides: - I need to take my computer to class. Refurbished Macbook - $849 - I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard. Not in class you don't. At home you use a real keyboard and any of a number of inexpensive flat panel monitors. - I can afford $1,000 and no more. Less would be real nice. We're all waiting. There you go - you get a solid reliable highly portable machine, and at home you have an even larger screen and a full keyboard. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] CanSecWest
I wonder why they don't have Opera as a target? Too hard or too unimportant? Matthew On Mar 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, mike wrote: CanSecWest kicked off again.. http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2009/03/18/pwn2own-2009-day-1---safari-internet-explorer-and-firefox-taken-down-by-four-zero-day-exploits \ Safari, IE 8 and firefox all taken down easily by the same guy who took Apple down last year. So far chrome is the only left standing, although that seems to be more from lack of trying then anything. They are supposed to take cracks at the mobile market next, that should be more interesting. Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Criminal Intent [Was: Windows Media Player sound
The first US depression did not occur until after the government started meddling in the economy. Look it up. All governments are corrupt by their nature - that is why we need to keep them small. Matthew On Mar 15, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: If the US had not been run by corrupt leaders for the last 8 years the current economic crash would not have happened. We are now suffering the consequences of their malfeasance. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Can't print -- OS X Leopard
I would like to know how to find a bank giving away Mac's ... On Mar 12, 2009, at 10:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: I'm glad the bank has good security--just not on my Mac. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
You can not ignore what is not there. On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Ding! You win the prize for the obvious - the bills threatened the availability of abortion without consequences and had to be opposed - even if this meant tolerating infanticide Why are you ignoring the fact that this infanticide was already illegal? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
You would think, but no, not in the cases in question. The issue related to failed abortions that resulted in the live delivery of an infant. Absent intense medical care this child would die. In most cases this child would probably die anyway. These children were not being given any care, life saving or even palliative care as the intent had been their death all along. In my book that is infanticide, and the proposed law would have made that clear. Obama and others voted against it to protect unfettered abortion rights. As an aside, this all relates to the legal definition of personhood. To be a homicide the victim has to be a person. That is the principle reason that most on the pro abortion sidesideside fight any effort to recognize the personhood of a child in the womb. The implications are obvious. Matthew On Feb 15, 2009, at 9:13 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote: Matthew Taylor You can not ignore what is not there. On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Ding! You win the prize for the obvious - the bills threatened the availability of abortion without consequences and had to be opposed - even if this meant tolerating infanticide Why are you ignoring the fact that this infanticide was already illegal? Infanticide is legal? Wouldn't that come under the homicide label? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] One handedness
I broke my hand a while back. I found that using a Logitech Trackman marble track ball was of great help. I already was partial to them, but a mouse would have been impossible to use with my hand. Matthew On Feb 15, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Constance Warner wrote: I'd like to hear from any list members who have also had broken wrists or arms, and how long it took before you could use BOTH HANDS on a computer keyboard again, what you did by way of therapy, what helped, what not to do, etc. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history
On Feb 14, 2009, at 2:34 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: Your arguments are valid, but kind of missing the point. People are going to have to change, period, in the way they think of energy usage. Right - eventually, if most non-dystopian futurists are correct, energy will be something we hardly think of at all due to its plentiful on demand nature. How we get there is the issue. Or we're going to have to pour money and energy (pun intended) into changing what we use as energy. Very large cities were created due to trade. These huge cities, due to modern transport are no longer necessary. Other way around - modern transport makes huge cities possible - without it we can not supply the food and consumables the denizens require. In our past, city size was a function of available food supply from the local country side via road, river, only occasionally via sea (think Rome). Modern economic theory - that would be free trade - when combined with modern transport made it possible to have large cities where the city owners did not control the source of the food. They're just a remanent of the past that's struggling to hold on. Struggling to hold on? The rate of urbanization is increasing last I heard. How many cities are going broke trying to sustain their population and infrastructure? How many are spending huge amounts of money on stuff other than core city services? Bigger isn't always better. Didn't computers prove that? It is also irrelevant, because sometimes bigger is better or more efficient. Also, industrial capacity is a bit of a misnomer. It's relevant if you hope to sustain the world with no change. But the world with no change in its' past structure is becoming less relevant everyday. Industrial capacity refers to the ability to make stuff - industry - that people want. I don't know what that will be next year, let alone next decade, with enough precision to get rich off the knowledge, but I do know people will want industrial products. We, as a country or world, didn't start using electricity or oil over night. But no one ever went back on electricity once it was available to them. It's going to take time, acceptance and a means of profitability for those who help to make it viable for the industrialized world as a whole. There have been many great ideas put forth over the years to help jump start this. There has been next to no $ put forth compared to what's been spent to keep the oil flowing. And the oil, as anyone can plainly see, is a finite resource. But like our economy is showing today, we love to put stuff off. Thank our progressive hide the true cost of things tax structure in part for that. We subsidized oil through our indirect taxes (income, business pass through taxes). Subsidies always distort the market - always. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Recommendation for OS X replicating software?
RSYNC and CRON are rock solid, the latter in use for several decades, the former for many years, thought not several decades. I use both regularly, RSYNC for backups on my OS X boxes, CRON for a variety of tasks (though rarely on my OS X boxes). Matthew On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:39 PM, db wrote: Aww shoot! In reading people's responses to my original post, I thought I might go with CCC but since I am actually researching for a friend, it's not good to hear that I would be setting them up with something that is likely produce problems eventually ... that then I will have to try to fix.. :( I agree that dependable is pretty much everything when it comes to backups What about the other choices mentioned: Deja Vu ($25), Super Duper ($?) and Cronnix / rsync (free)? And I guess upgrading to Leopard Time Machine should be included in the mix... In looking at the reviews (mixed...) for Deja Vu just now, I came across another option ChronoSync ($40): http://www.econtechnologies.com/pages/cs/chrono_overview.html Anybody have experience re: good stability/ dependability with ChronoSync or the other options? db Tom Piwowar wrote: I'm using Bombich Carbon Copy Cloner at this moment. I use it too, but have found it less than reliable over the years. His top selling point for version 3 is that it is not as bad as previous versions. That kind of MS-style marketng does not impress. The problem with CCC is that it relies primairly on the UNIX system. CCC is primairly a friendly user interface for configuring UNIX. When something goes wrong the errors you get are from UNIX and therefore do not relate well to the settings you made in CCC. Last week a client's computer reported during a CCC run: The shell tool could not be found. Error code 35. Well, what does one do with that? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history
But we are not doing that now - we subsidize oil prices heavily by spending other tax dollars on deployments to the Gulf to keep the market stable, and the price down. Matthew On Feb 14, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: it's entirely possible that, if left to market forces only, development of alternatives won't come in time to avoid some very nasty consequences. This is why government support for research might not be a bad thing; one of the functions of good government is to support things like this when it's necessary and the private market isn't going to cut it. It just has to be smart enough to avoid foolishness like ethanol, hydrogen, and biodiesel. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history
Been a while since I spent much time on it so I can't recall the specific references. I will see what I can find in my library as time permits. All are in the general class of hard science fiction essayists (i.e. they right fiction, but also right non-fiction on the underpinnings of their fictional works). I can give you some examples from memory though. Fission - expensive now, but the theoretical knowledge is already out there for more efficient designs that are safer still. The worry about waste products is a stalking horse for anti nuclear scare groups. We don't have to keep it around for 10,000 years. We have to keep it around for 100 year, 200 year max, maybe much less. Why? Because by that time we will have the technology to at a minimum toss it into the sun. More likely to recycle it for some productive use. Any prediction that assumes no material advance in capabilities that are only in degree, not in kind is belied by the history of the human race. Solar Power collection - expensive now, but it will get much, much, cheaper. It will get cheaper still in orbit which solves the current problem of waste heat - space is the great heat sync (ok, technically it is not, but you can radiate waste heat there all you want). Power can be beamed down to receptors in suitable places with little impact. Hydrogen fuel - we have no shortage of sea water. Using focused solar or nuclear power we can crack sea water and get what we need for portable power generation. Right now it is not cheap enough, but it will become so. None of these have notable heat producing effects on a global climactic scale. The real challenge is consumption efficiency - can we avoid waste heat from all this plentiful energy. I am not up on the current science in that regard, but what I understand is that if it becomes a problem we will have to be producing a lot more power than we project for the next 50 years. Matthew On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Elaine Zablocki wrote: At 07:57 AM 2/14/2009, Matthew Taylor wrote: Right - eventually, if most non-dystopian futurists are correct, energy will be something we hardly think of at all due to its plentiful on demand nature. How we get there is the issue. Could you please give names, references, something I could read? I haven't read anyone who says energy will be something we hardly think of at all due to its plentiful on demand nature. If there are intelligent people who think that could be a possibility, that would sure cheer me up. (Plentiful energy that doesn't increase global warming??) Recently I've been remembering an early Robert Heinlein story ... I bet lots of folks on this list know it... the one where they discover a way to capture energy from the sun at no or very little cost... (and fight big companies that don't want this information made public) ... the usual Heinlein interplay between a smart scientist guy and an equally smart wise-cracking woman... I can't recall the name of the story, or find it on my shelves. But I find myself remembering it these days, and thinking if that is ever going to become a reality, now would be a real good time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Ding! You win the prize for the obvious - the bills threatened the availability of abortion without consequences and had to be opposed - even if this meant tolerating infanticide. The final bill that Obama voted against contained the same language as in a Federal law he said he preferred. Then he voted against in anyway. And no, I did not read about this in any smear site. All of this is in the public record - you just object to the logical conclusion. On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Jordan wrote: Matthew Taylor wrote: I have not seen MM's take on Obama's support of infaticide, but it is real. I have read the original bill. I have read the final bill after it was modified to meet Obama's and other's objections. At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or pallitive assistance and that was a position Obama preferred as a matter of law. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? It matters not at all to the question of O's views that some R's also supported it. Obama and other opponents said the bills posed a threat to abortion rights and were unnecessary because, they said, Illinois law already prohibited the conduct that these bills purported to address. Read something other than right wing smear sites. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
On Feb 13, 2009, at 2:42 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: One of the problems with Solar and Wind is that at present and in the coming future (I have heard at least a decade) is that we can not generate enough power from them. True - and we have a nimby problem as well when it comes to locating the collection points and transmitting the electricity. I think a lot of Armageddon preachers (cultural not theological) have been beating the drums and not addressing the real issues. And this is new how? Where wind makes sense do wind. Where solar makes sense do solar. Do not make a round peg fit into a square hole. (Solar works much better down here than wind) And where Nuclear makes sense do that, and where coal makes sense, do that. But most of all we need to develop power generating methods that do not rely solely on oil. Agreed. Using solar and nuclear to crack sea water for hydrogen has promise in the long run. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history
On Feb 13, 2009, at 7:45 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: One of the problems with Solar and Wind is that at present and in the coming future (I have heard at least a decade) is that we can not generate enough power from them. True - and we have a nimby problem as well when it comes to locating the collection points and transmitting the electricity. No, it's not true. You are thinking about renewable energy in a very narrow way. No, I am not. I am thinking about industrial scale industry production. Around 30% of all energy used in this country is wasted through lack of energy efficiency. Probably true. Efficiency is cheap. It's easy and doesn't require a much of a change in your lifestyle--energy meter, insulation, timers, smart switches, replace a broken water heater or refrigerator or AC with an efficient one; you're going to do it anyway, so get a good one and reduce your energy bill. Same for other appliances including transportation. Been there, done that where I can, will do that where I can not yet afford when I can. Increasing the availability and use of mass transportation where possible also saves energy. Sometimes, and sometimes at the cost of lost freedom and lost time. However one of the big misconceptions is that solar and wind have to be part of the power grid. They do if they are going to replace industrial capacity currently provided by fossil fuels. Passive solar doesn't at all. Try smelting or running electrified rail off passive solar. Photovoltaics can be but don't have to be unless you don't produce 100% of your own power. Which won't help folks living in dense cities where they can not produce their own power. The NIMBYs and CAVEs [citizens against virtually everything] are a small but very loud contingent and often can be tempted by the money they'll be saving. Offshore wind farms can be several miles out to sea where they can barely be seen, where the wind is steadier. Other wind farms are in the mountains, and on private farms where owners are paid rent by the turbine companies. And you still have to have transmission lines. if you are not consuming the energy produced on site. Turbines run slowly enough that they're not a significant danger to migrating birds according to recent reports on newer turbines. Individuals in remote locations can generate their own off-grid power. Agreed, and insufficient to our national needs. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Recommendation for OS X replicating software?
BTW - there appears to be a graphical interface open source product called Cronix. I have not used it as I am a command line kind of guy. Matthew On Feb 13, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote: If all you want is file replication use rsync (already part of the OS) scheduled with the OS X / UNIX cron function. Matthew On Feb 13, 2009, at 6:24 PM, db wrote: I would like to set up automatic file replication on a pre Time Machine Tiger G5 so as to provide a 2nd copy of all critical user data files on a separate but local hard drive. Any recommendations? Hopefully freeware. db * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history
I hear you. I would love to bike to work. I also want my kids to have a house and property where they could to play in the woods and breath air relatively free of gasoline and diesel fumes. Avoiding drive by shootings was a plus as well. I made the choice in favor of my kids and live an hour by car from where I work by the back roads. Offer me a job with a comparable salary a 10 minute bike ride away and I am there. On Feb 13, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: Efficiency is cheap. You're right. I happen to be a bicycle commuter. In fact I don't even own an internal combustion powered vehicle. I've been car free for twenty years, and I don't miss it. It takes me ten minutes to get to work. No parking hassles or expenses, I park my bike in my office. Yes there's an art to doing this, but practice makes perfect. Of course it costs more to live in the city center but this is offset by low transportation costs. It IS possible to game the system in an ecologically and personally beneficial way. My lifestyle wouldn't (maybe) work for everyone, but I'll bet it would for some. I'm an American conservative with a European socialist lifestyle. Too bad I don't get a big bailout check for acting responsibly. I pay my bills and taxes, I'm kind to strangers, and I always try to give more than I take. I'm sure that there are many others that do the same. And I don't ask for much. Personally I'd settle for a nice pair of English dress shoes and a new preamplifier, as long as the Democrats are hell-bent on giving away my money. I figure that would about cover it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Every source I can recall him mentioning has been a left wing ax grinder. I did not say he reads nothing else, I said IF. I have not seen MM's take on Obama's support of infaticide, but it is real. I have read the original bill. I have read the final bill after it was modified to meet Obama's and other's objections. At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or pallitive assistance and that was a position Obama preferred as a matter of law. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? It matters not at all to the question of O's views that some R's also supported it. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: If you are so limiting your news source I can understand how you come by your viewpoints. If you read on the left blogosphere, Media Matters, TPM Muckraker, and Huffington Post you'll typically see links to legitimate researched reports. Didn't notice him saying that he limited his sources to these, did you? The conservatives love to refer to Media Matters as a left wing smear site. The problem with this is, MM documents *everything* it says with links to external materials, often to original sources. It's pretty hard to call something a smear when it uses original documents to prove that what you said was wrong. Well, I guess it's not *that* hard, since O'Reilly and others do it constantly. Repetition-makes-truth in action. The conservative commentators keep talking about how the rescue bill includes $4.something billion for ACORN; MM documents the falsity of this using links to the bill itself. Bernie Goldberg butchers the Brokaw/ Rose interview; MM provides links to the actual interview so you can see what Brokaw really said. Limbaugh keeps saying that Obama favors infanticide (seriously); MM provides links to the original Illinois bill, Obama's comments, and the recorded vote showing that many Republicans took the same position. It goes on and on and on. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Actually one of the time honored smear tactics is to stick to the facts, meticulously, but SELECTIVELY reported, and devoid of important context. In my experience both the left and right excel at this, of late the left more consistently. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Sorry Chris but you are wrong on this one, MM is a left wing/progressive site, it does NOT monitor all news, only what it considers as 'right wing' disinformation. Mike, of course it is a left wing site. It does not pretend to be anything else. That does not, however, make it a *smear* site, which is what I was complaining about. Everything they say is scrupulously documented. Stating facts is not smearing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Jeff; One of the consistent trends of our recent political history is that the broadly conservative and libertarian thinks the left is badly misguided but educable, while the left thinks conservatives and libertarians are evil and selfish. On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: If you just want to be a political bigot and jawbone about how those people are just shiftless and no good, good for target practice but not much else, then have a nice day. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
It is not illegal at the present time is the problem. The bill was in part an attempt to make it illegal, as the practice was ongoing in Illinois hospitals. Can you point to a single case of prosecution that would indicate the state thought it to be illegal? On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or palliative assistance See, this is wrong. I guess you are saying this because the final bill did not contain language making this practice illegal. You're right; it did not. But neither did it have any language making drunk driving, embezzlement, or kidnapping illegal--does that make them legal? Of course not. The fact is, this practice was -already- illegal; it is homicide according to existing Illinois law. So, the statement that it's legal is just plain wrong. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? Well, in the way that it is not support for infanticide at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
It does sound as if time spent there is quality time. That is besides the point was making though. It is possible to convey misinformation without uttering a single thing that is not true. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Actually one of the time honored smear tactics is to stick to the facts, meticulously, but SELECTIVELY reported, and devoid of important context. In my experience both the left and right excel at this, of late the left more consistently. It doesn't sound like you've spent much quality time at the MM site. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
On Feb 10, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Vicky Staubly wrote: That any state feels it can prohibit who I am as a person is outrageous and should not be permitted in any civilized country, let along one that claims to be as enlightened as we claim. People like you and Scalia belong in the Dark Ages. Best to put me there with them - and all others who support a government of laws and not of men. The very essence of judicial impartiality is that a judge must rule on the law says, not what they wish the law to be. In this nation there is a long established jurisprudence that the state can indeed legislate matters of personal morality when the legislature finds a compelling interest in doing so. The state does it all the time. The state regulates vice, be it the sex trade, recreational pharmaceuticals, or other activities it considers detrimental to the public good. I don't think it should, certainly not in the manner it does, but that is a political choice the people through their representatives have made. The state regulates marriage - the very act of sanctioning any form of marriage, of defining marriage in law is an act of legislating morality. If you argue for same sex marriage sanctioned by the state you are asserting the power of the state to define marriage - that is legislating morality. If our judges start, some would argue continue, ruling based on their philosophy of what the law should be, or should mean today, as opposed to what the drafters of a law meant at the time that they drafted it, then we no longer have a government of laws. We simply have a government of political majority - whatever that majority might be, whenever and wherever assembled. That is a recipe for tyranny, not liberty. I respect your life choices - I have made some unorthodox choices myself. I don't demand others welcome my choices, or even support my choices. I certainly don't demand that the law be changed to suit my choices - I do what I can to persuade others to support my views that the laws should be changed in an orderly manner. Finally, if Liberal isn't a bad word anymore, why do Liberals call themselves Progressives now instead. I have some more bad words for you, but I don't want to subject the nice people on this list (as opposed to you) to them. I can't help but notice you did not address the question - why do most liberals appear to prefer progressive? Progressive is such an interesting label. It implies change is valuable for the sake of change itself - that the old must be dispensed with simply because it is the old. It gives no weight to custom and tradition as the evolved wisdom of society, yet most progressives strenuously argue that evolution has shaped the members of society who now must change that society in the name of progress. Such an interesting contradiction. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
Please remember who declared war upon whom, and who has chosen to remain at war. Israel accepted the UN partition plan - the bulk of the palestinian arabs, backed by their arab neighbors, rejected the partition and declared war. They lost the first phase of the war (1948) and every subsequent phase of the war (1956, 1967, 1973, 1982 ...), though of course many define still alive, still fighting as winning, but only for the arab side. Now it can be argued that the partition plan was an injustice in the first place - many argued that immigration to palestine should not have been allowed - that the British should have used force to keep out Jewish refugees of WWII ( Curiously often the same folks argue that the US should not use force to keep out immigrants to the US ), and that the British should have created an arab state in Palestine where no distinct arab state had existed in 100's of years - certainly not since the days of the initial Israeli conquest of Canaan. Most recently the region had been governed by the Ottoman Empire, before that the Mameluke Sultanate and Fatimid Caliphate out of Egypt, intermingled with crusader periods. There were greater Arab states that ruled for a while after the conquest from the Eastern Roman Empire, based out of Mecca, Baghdad, and Damascus. What would have made creating exclusively an arabian statelet the right thing to do escapes me. I am not asking the Palestinians to say thank you. I am asking them to cease shoving their children under the water so they can stand on their shoulders and throw bombs at Israel while their children suffer beneath them. On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Ralph wrote: You keep asking why, when their oppressors let them raise their heads out of the water to take a breath of air, the Palestinians don't thank the Israelis and immediately start acting like grateful citizens. It might be useful to imagine how Americans would have reacted if we had lost the Korean War and subsequently been occupied by Korean troops for the last 50 years. With prime parts of our country occupied and our citizens squeezed into smaller and smaller areas. With control points manned by troops who arbitrarily disallowed passage to anyone they pleased. How many would be saying, The North Koreans only want to live in peace - If only the Americans would work with them instead of fighting...? The Israeli army forcibly evicted Israeli settlers from Gaza when Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza. The result was a violent Hamas takeover in Gaza, raids on Israeli border posts, the kidnapping of a soldier, and indiscriminate rocket fire from Hamas controlled Gaza into Israel. Given that history, where is the incentive for Israel to do anything but take a hard line? The people of Gaza would be a lot less needy if they concentrated on building a civil society. If every crate that brought in weapons through a tunnel brought in food and medicine how much better would the Gazans be today? If Hamas resolved to live in peace with Israel there would be no need for a closed border. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Vicky Staubly wrote: Matthew Taylor wrote: I respect your life choices - I have made some unorthodox choices myself. I don't demand others welcome my choices, or even support my choices. I certainly don't demand that the law be changed to suit my choices - I do what I can to persuade others to support my views that the laws should be changed in an orderly manner. Have I advocated storming city hall and stealing marriage licenses? I'm saying that I don't care how unjust laws get changed. And if you had greater respect for the law rather than your preferred outcome you would care how the laws are changed. The constitution and the ordinary body of law have proscribed methods of change, the latter harder to change than the former. I advocate following the rules to change the rules, not using judges to change the plain meaning of the rules or just toss them out as unpopular or incompatible with the judge's idea of what the law should be when it clearly is not that. Did black people tell the supreme court after Brown vs Board of Education... no, no, we'll wait until we can get favorable laws in all 48 states? How does this apply to our discussion? That decision said the constitution (14th Amendment chiefly) meant what it said it did - equal protection. Did slaves after the civil war say No, no, I'll wait until my state of South Carolina outlaws slavery? Define wait - it took the 13th Amendment to outlaw slavery nation wide. The Emancipation Proclamation did not do that. I wish that the people of the US would reject past injustices sooner, As do I. but it seems that it's usually the courts and/or the federal government that first tries to fix things. I disagree. Much change comes from ordinary citizens and interest groups lobbying for incremental change. When the courts are used to short circuit the process before there is a consensus for change that usually creates a tremendous backlash. Then the bigots cry states rights! and let their demand for small/weak federal government (or against activist judges) try to justify their bigotry. Wow, talk about a loaded, inflammatory statement. Am I bigoted because I support the rule of law? Am I bigoted because I think the text actually matters? Am I bigoted because I support a republican form of government rather than direct democracy? It's also telling that you called it my lifestyle and a choice. Because everything you do, everything I do, is a lifestyle and a choice. Those choices can be guided or constrained by external forces or internal makeup, but as an autonomous individual possessed of free will, your actions are a choice. Strangely, your religion, more of a choice than my lifestyle, does more damage than my lifestyle, and yet no one suggests you give it up. Argument by unsupported assumption. I have no religion. I am an agnostic - a militant agnostic. This existence of the supernatural can neither be proved nor disproved by natural means. And plenty of people do suggest I give up my agnosticism and find faith - in their deity naturally. Granted a few don't care which deity, as long as there is one. Did I say anything about your lifestyle was damaging, or wrong? I do not think I did. You also dragged marriage into the discussion, trying to say I want more (or changed) laws, but it was Lawrence v. Texas that started this discussion (for me anyway). That overturned a state law which made what I do in the privacy of my own bedroom (if I lived in Texas) a crime. How is having that law small unobtrusive government? You simply brings up that excuse when it suits your bigotry. I think that law is a terrible law and should have been REPEALED long ago. The people of Texas through their elected representatives disagreed, as is their privilege under our constitutional system. I do not want any government in my or your bedroom. Under our present laws though they are allowed to be there in certain circumstances. That was my point - in our system the state MAY legislate morality. I do not think they should absent some other compelling interest, but I do not argue that they may not, for our constitution and the common law that precedes it are clear that morality can be legislated. You write as though you think you know me and my views on personal life and morality. Clearly you do not and have chosen to project a straw man to denigrate. I shouldn't have jumped into this political discussion, but I was simply trying to show that this kind of bigotry affects real people, people you know, but obviously don't care about. Again, you assume much yet know little about me. Why is this? Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Now we get to the heart of the matter. Crooked = disagrees with your position. Got it. On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Jordan wrote: Oh, OK. It's better if there were 7 crooked judges. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Wikipedia false fact proves itself]
I will often start with Wikipedia to get a grounding in terminology to be used for other searches, and to check out their outside links. On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:57 PM, mike wrote: Ah a rare time I agree with Tom. More problems in that many school endorse the use of wikipedia for historical references etc. Frightening. The greater degree of lack of import means the greater chance I'll go to wiki to read about it. Mike On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: So the circle was closed: Wikipedia states a false fact, a reputable media outlet copies the false fact, and this outlet is then used as the source to prove the false fact to Wikipedia. Any media that uses Wikipedia for its fact checking is not reputable. I would call it lazy media. Too lazy to contact the Minister's office to get the correct information. This is particularly interesting in light of this week's Time magazine cover story about How to Save Your Newspaper http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1877191,00.html Time tries to distinguish its brand of reputable media from the rest of the internet rabble to make the case that we ought to be paying for their Web content. Of course, if they get their facts from the Wikipedia, their content should be covered by copyleft and they can not legally charge for it. Ha, ha, ha! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
If you are so limiting your news source I can understand how you come by your viewpoints. On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Jordan wrote: If you read on the left blogosphere, Media Matters, TPM Muckraker, and Huffington Post you'll typically see links to legitimate researched reports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
In many ways RR was the textbook neo-conservative - he was a Democrat before as he said I did not leave the Democratic Party, The Democratic Party left me. On Feb 8, 2009, at 1:23 AM, Eric S. Sande wrote: Please give me an example where liberals did overthrow a government and replaced it with a democratic one along the lines of the western world. Velvet Revolution, Czechoslovakia. Pretty much the same thing happened in other countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Thank you Ronald Reagan. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
Those were classical liberals, aka paleoconservatives in todays lexicon. One could argue that Lincoln's Republicans overthrew that federal republic government by force with a more national republic, and then FDR's brand of liberals overthrew that government when they eviscerated limited government by ruling that the commerce clause essentially lets Congress legislate on any matter in any manner. On Feb 8, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Please give me an example where liberals did overthrow a government and replaced it with a democratic one along the lines of the western world. Neocons will disagree, but I nominate the USofA. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Talk about your mac vs. pc wars!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4547649/French-fighter-planes-grounded-by-computer-virus.html French fighter planes grounded by computer virusFrench fighter planes were unable to take off after military computers were infected by a computer virus, an intelligence magazine claims. by Kim Willsher in Paris French fighter jets were unable to take off after military computers were attacked by a virus Photo: AFP The aircraft were unable to download their flight plans after databases were infected by a Microsoft virus they had already been warned about several months beforehand. At one point French naval staff were also instructed not to even open their computers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OS X trojan
I amazes me, though it probably should not, that people get hit by stuff like this. This sort of Trojan requires three layers of stupidity - first you have to download pirated software, then fail to thoroughly scan it, then you have to give pirated software admin authority to install. No system is safe against voluntary installation of suspect software. Matthew On Feb 7, 2009, at 11:14 AM, mike wrote: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19859/P50/ There is a link in that article to the fix in case anyone is interested. I know no one on this list would need it of course...but perhaps you have some mac friends who think their machines are bullet proof and are in need of it. MacDailyNews reports 20k machines infected, there is a link on the reddit front page that suggests it may be 50k. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
As opposed to the world wide good liberal activists and supporters of liberation have done over the years. Pot, kettle, kettle, pot. Have fun knocking heads. Matthew On Feb 7, 2009, at 8:52 AM, gerald wrote: At 07:44 PM 2/6/2009, you wrote: Over time people have gotten better at working together in an organized if imperfect fashion. The cons/neocons call that big government. neocons want democracy but in the name of democracy their incompetence and religion beliefs have created anarcy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
On Feb 6, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Until very recently in our history few Americans would assume that if they failed at something government would back them up. This is plainly false. Going back 1000s of years history shows us people working together in an organized if imperfect fashion to solve common problems. Given that American history is fairly recent, what value is there in going back 1000's of years to demonstrate that government has existed? Read some colonial and expansion period American history, both political and cultural. You won't find many examples of people seeking government bail outs. Yes, government and the general citizenry collaborated on really big infrastructure (canals, railroads and such). Not so many government jobs programs. What you do see its lots of people working together in an organized if imperfect fashion - through their churches, abolitionist societies, service clubs, grange associations, and others. Why do you appear to assume that only government can serve as an organizing force? You are arguing for a brutal and savage world. Is that wise? No, I am not. The world is brutal, and parts of it quite savage. Free people can choose to be other than brutal and savage through voluntary cooperation of communities of interest outside of government's coercive powers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
On Feb 6, 2009, at 7:11 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: And a principle enabler of that opportunity was a people unshackled by restraining government and class structures, free to make the most those opportunities through hard work. This is the concept of everyman as noble savage. No, this is the concept of the rights of man. That man is not a subject of a king bound to a station by birth, but responsible for their own destiny - imperfect, often selfish, but endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. You might recognize that last part. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
Ever heard of liberation theology? Seen the news reports of all the delightful celebrities cozying up to left wing thugs and dictators? Idolizing the Viet Cong and NVA? Worshiping at the feet of the Sandanista's (and Ortega is at it again I hear)? I love the way you and Tom keep calling me a neo-con given that I am nothing of the sort. On Feb 7, 2009, at 4:53 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: As opposed to the world wide good liberal activists and supporters of liberation have done over the years. Where did this happen? The liberators I recall are mostly the cons overthrowing popularly elected governments in places like Iran [at least twice], Chile, Australia, Honduras, Cuba [remember Batista? He was our puppet], El Salvador, Nicaragua [at least 4x], Venezuela [cons failed], Panama [at least twice], and plenty more cons' targets. What liberals overthrew a government and deliberately made a worse situation for the people? Don't pretend that Castro was liberal-- he's a nationalist who overthrew our Mafia-run puppet [my family made it out in time] then faced an unwarranted embargo, so give another example, please, or cut out this neocon propaganda. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
Clearly in your first paragraph you identify part of the problem - not charging what it costs to provide the service now and going forward. You came on board and had the needed spine to push for what had to be done - I commend you. My question is why should municipal governments not bear all municipal responsibilities? One of our growing problems has been raising taxes at the higher levels and then passing them back down to lower levels. This is inefficient and it makes it harder for the lower level governments closer to the voters to raise needed funds, and fosters a taxes are someone else's problem attitude. Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 6:40 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT-EI) wrote: In my small government experience, it was council members' fear that raising water and sewer rates angers the voters, their neighbors. So previous councils pretended the problems in the water and sewer systems didn't need to be funded. They did cheap, little fixes that made the problems a bit less visible. By the time I got on council we almost lost our two water towers due to lack of maintenance. Our waste water plant was near end of life, but no one had thought of funding a replacement; they thought we could get another grant. People yelled at me many times when they saw I was behind increasing rates. I asked each of them if we should keep rates low and then shut it all down when it falls apart in two to three years. They weren't pleased, but they saw that we were serious and that we could not get any state or federal grants. This is the result when we keep cutting taxes at higher levels and shift all responsibilities to municipal governments. This is also the result when big governments increase the mandatory requirements we must meet, but provide no funding to meet them. It is not pretty or easy when small towns suddenly start seeing the gigantic future bills! If the state legislature keeps cutting taxes, the local taxes and fees will have to increase dramatically. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:51 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves Not if the laws of the jurisdiction mandate such up front. I also never said there should not be adequate planning - I assume it is the duty of the government to plan for such eventualities. Are you telling me you are not? I think the cons/neocons describe this as passing debts on to future generations. Past generations built the infrastructure. Then the cons/neocons got control and screamed no taxes -- I want to be free (probably because they were hippies in their youth). Then the bridges started to fall down, the water mains broke, and the power grid failed. Now guess who has to pay the debt: it is us. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
It seems to me that there was an actionable tort against the owners of the land where the service station was, and the owners of the station at the time of abandonment. Were they made to pay costs for remediating the pollution they caused? What did the municipality consider more important to fund than the remediation? Was the cost such that they could not float capital bonds? Did the locals consider personal remediation? ISTR that there are on site filters that can handle ethyl-lead - I have a filtration system for my well water. My process means that you will not be taxed for the exclusive benefit of me. My process means that people will choose to live largely where their circumstances and preferences allow, recognizing that all preferences might not be achievable due to circumstances. Small towns have been closing for over a century under the present system. From my reading of history, this is large the result of the production efficiencies of mechanized agriculture, lowering food prices and freeing the labor that used to produce food to other uses. Was this a bad thing? Should more people be sent back to small farms and food prices raised to preserve some idyllic vision of rural life? My family and I are localvores - we get our milk from a local dairy (delivered in glass bottles no less), much of our produce in season from a farm co-op, beef and pork from the local 4-H kids when we can. It is much more expensive, but we are lucky enough to be able to afford it. Not every one can. We still also buy all of the same on occasion from supermarkets. Modern agriculture and trade brings my daughter oranges, my wife avocados, my son blueberries, and me some peace of mind. Should we give that up in the name of small farms? I agree that government farm subsidies favor large farms - I don't think we should subsidize farms at all - they don't need it. What you call subsidizing the little guy economists call penalizing success. How is it justified to rob Peter to pay Paul? Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: For many small communities if it were not for state or federal governments they would never be able to provide these services. When I lived in WI, the local community had a water system. Worked great until they found pout their source of water was being contaminated by an underground source. An old abandoned Service station had underground tanks that had leaked over decades and contaminated the area with ethyl-lead. Either shut down the water system and subject everyone to possibly getting contaminated water, or find a source of funding to get remediation. (More than local municipality can afford) They got federal grants to get it fixed. (Area that was contaminated still condemned and this is 10 years ago) Your process, means that those without will always be without because they will never have the resources that larger municipalities have. Small towns will have to close and everyone can move into the big city. Government keeps advocation for larger farms which are more efficient, but at what cost? These large farms produce milk at a cheaper price, but the cost, is more concentrated waste, higher turn over of cattle, and poor quality of product. Sometimes the Government has to help subsidize the little guy to help level the playing field or what we end up with is not what we thought we wanted. Stewart At 08:18 AM 2/4/2009, you wrote: Clearly in your first paragraph you identify part of the problem - not charging what it costs to provide the service now and going forward. You came on board and had the needed spine to push for what had to be done - I commend you. My question is why should municipal governments not bear all municipal responsibilities? One of our growing problems has been raising taxes at the higher levels and then passing them back down to lower levels. This is inefficient and it makes it harder for the lower level governments closer to the voters to raise needed funds, and fosters a taxes are someone else's problem attitude. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
And yet they do this because it is clear that their own publics would not support paying market prices directly. And it also helps keep third world farmers at starvation level because they can not compete with European (and American) subsidized agriculture. Good job. Oh, and then we send tons of food aid, further crashing what market price for food there was, and empowering the thugs who gain control of the food aid. Great system you got there Tom. On Feb 4, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Sometimes the Government has to help subsidize the little guy to help level the playing field or what we end up with is not what we thought we wanted. This is also why the average European Safeway puts an American gourmet shop to shame. They support their small farmers and the farmers give the public an abundance of good food. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Groupwise on Itouch or Iphone
This might not help much but here goes. I don't think you can out of the box. Groupwise will speak IMAP and POP, which the iPhone/touch can handle, but it also uses a security certificate which I am not sure they can handle. For push email there is a company called Notify (first link) that makes an add on to Groupwise allowing full integration and push. For a general overview of Groupwise IMAP or POP see the second link. Hope this helps. Matthew http://helpdesk.boisestate.edu/email/groupwise/popimap.shtml http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/08/14/groupwise.iphone.sync/ On Feb 4, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Sandra Raredon wrote: Would appreciate if anyone on the list would know how to set up Groupwise account on Itouch (and or iphone). My sister is a nurse and has groupwise mail at the hospital. She would like to read her mail while in transit. I set up my own itouch with gmail, outlook, but when I tried to help her with Groupwise, I failed miserably! If anyone could write the steps and settings I should use. Thanks very much. Sandra -- ~~ ªª ªª ªª ª Sandra J. Raredon New home email: aster...@gmail.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
On Feb 4, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Not particularly true. What is not true? Statistics have shown there is enough food produced in the world to feed everyone. Agreed The problem is with distribution. Also very HUGE problem corrupt governments that would rather their populace die than allow them the needed food. Agreed - with the caveat that part of the distribution problem is that in some areas the locals can not price compete with subsidized imported food, and so leave the farms and head for the cities. Case in point, Ethiopia in the 80's. Everyone remembers the outcry for all the starving people in Ethiopia and the Band Aid and the albums produced to get food aid over there. Remember Sam Kinison? Get in the trucks - you live in a freaking desert - we are taking you to where the food is I laughed so hard I cried. What is not talked about is how much food went over there and how little of it got to those needing it. A good portion was stolen and confiscated by the leaders of the country and then resold for their benefit. It was widely discussed, just not by the rock stars to did a gig and moved on. Our church body has an Aid program that sends goods and aid overseas for disasters. (One of the higher rated agencies) One of the things we insist on is having someone on the ground where the aid is going to oversee what is transpiring. Helps make sure things get where they are supposed to better. Good for them. I used to give to some church groups. I stopped when it became clear that the child / family I was supposedly helping never saw a dime of the aid I gave. I trust yours is better run. Stewart At 09:23 AM 2/4/2009, you wrote: And yet they do this because it is clear that their own publics would not support paying market prices directly. And it also helps keep third world farmers at starvation level because they can not compete with European (and American) subsidized agriculture. Good job. Oh, and then we send tons of food aid, further crashing what market price for food there was, and empowering the thugs who gain control of the food aid. Great system you got there Tom. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
Not at all practical, but the routine was funny. I found this link to three versions of the bit for those who don't know what we are talking about. Warning - he is quite profane. http://bobsfunnies.blogspot.com/2008/03/sam-kinison-ethiopia-sketch.html Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Remember Sam Kinison? Get in the trucks - you live in a freaking desert - we are taking you to where the food is I laughed so hard I cried. I remember this--it was very funny advice, but not real practical. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
But by providing a support structure for Hamas, you help perpetuate the suffering. I know it is harsh, but sometimes you have to let people suffer until they change the behavior that creates the suffering. I would be all in favor aid programs to take people out of Gaza, or to take Hamas out of the picture, but simply supplementing the Hamas medical arm enables them to devote more effort to their execrable behavior. Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I am sorry to see you are in Gaza enabling Hamas. Money is fungible and I can not support Hamas. Matthew If people are in need people are in need. It does not matter the stripes of their politics. People are in need in Gaze. I do not agree with Hamas either but there are tons of folks there that are in need. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
You are correct there. The flood plains of the Mississippi river basin were as fertile as they were in part because they were flood plains. Our insistence that we build along the shore and ward off floods, rather than learn to live with them, has done great damage to the ecosystem. Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. wrote: NOT True. And, we should do EXACTLY the same. Several cities along the Mississippi have finally relocated to higher ground. Scottsville in Virginia did so about ten years ago (after building a levee taller than the fences in Israel, to no avail). We all need to recognize the nature of flooding, desertification, and the like- whether you ascribe to climate change (the ostriches abound) or not. Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM ] On Behalf Of Chris Dunford Sent: 02/04/2009 12:07 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves Remember Sam Kinison? Get in the trucks - you live in a freaking desert - we are taking you to where the food is I laughed so hard I cried. I remember this--it was very funny advice, but not real practical. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
Yes, spoiled by liberty into thinking that liberty was a natural state of man. Something about self evident truths which I guess you think no longer apply. Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:08 PM, db wrote: Basically, I think American's are spoiled rotten in general and are beginning to get their comeuppance and a lesson about priorities and the power and advantages of working together in an organized if imperfect fashion (ie: government) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Ralph wrote: But by providing a support structure for Hamas, you help perpetuate the suffering. As opposed to the good done with the billions of dollars supplied by U.S. taxpayers to kill Palestinians? Peace is possible the day the Palestinian people want to live in peace. To date the majority has not so chosen. I do not support everything Israel does or has done, but until all their neighbors, including the Palestinians, accept its right to exist and live in peace, the war those neighbors declared continues to their detriment. As the best example of a functioning representative republic in the region we should aid them as we can. I know it is harsh, but sometimes you have to let people suffer until they change the behavior that creates the suffering. You'd sing a different tune if they were your relatives being given a white phosphorus bath. I hope my relatives would choose to build at home rather than try to tear down the entire neighborhood, and thus avoid said bath. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Taxes and good life
I think you meant to say the Declaration of Independence, rather than Constitution. Liberty does not, and has not always equalled the franchise. A compelling argument can be made that only those who have a permanent stake in a society, and who pay taxes to support it, ought to be able to vote how those taxes are spent. Back then that meant property owning males. We have expanded that definition of who deserves the franchise, and the tax base, since then. Matthew On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: That statement by Jefferson in the Continuation is a real reflection of the Enlightenment teaching of the 17 and 18th century. Before this time the concept of liberty was very limited and only tot hose who had. Even in the US the early Fathers believed that only those who owned property should vote. Not a very broad concept of liberty. See this web site for more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
On Feb 2, 2009, at 6:59 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Why? Were you under the impression I was a diest? Choosing Gold over God is a good indicator of avarice. Can't do the former if you don't believe the existence of the latter is proven. False distinction. By definition excessive taxation would not be good governance. Then we clearly do not have good governance today, and throwing more money at it won't create it. Case closed. That's right we don't have good governance today. Due to the excessive influence of the cons/noecons the public sector is starved. This morning NPR reported that 20 years ago the US spent 7 percent of GNP on infrastructure, now it is just 4 percent. That's why roads and bridges are crumbling and water main breaks are a daily occurance. The budgets at the federal and state level both are being starved by massive entitlement spending and as the population ages it will only grow worse. Any demographer will tell you this. 20 years ago we also spent a lot more on the military but we cut that back (some argue to far). What is interesting is it was never the federal gov't that paid for most roads (highways excepted) and water infrastructure - that is state and local. They have chosen, and in the case of entitlements have been forced, to spend on other things. You see this in state after state. Take MD for instance - hardly a state run by neo-cons or cons in any meaningful way. How come they are not massively better off for the lack? Voluntary associations. You must have heard of them? You know, voluntary fire companies, service organizations, the Boy Scouts, etc., etc.. All run better and leaner than government. That is simply bullshit. A fantasy you perpetuate to justy cupidity. Justy cupidity? Sounds like a really sick anime name. In any event, have you ever seen how such service organizations run? Compared their overhead vs. direct operations expense to that of government? How many are you involved with that you know so well that they do not run better and leaner than gov't? I have experience with all of them. Oh, so you get to decide what my fair share is? Who was it who said To each according to their needs ... Once again name calling substituted for rational thought. Where is the name calling? So what is the alternative to each according to their needs? You let you neighbors starve to death or die from minor, untreated diseases. Last month a local 12-year-old boy dies of a toothache. Untreated the infection spread to his brain. It was a long agonizing death. And his parents should be charged with negligence for the neglect that brought him to that point. I will bet his general hygiene and diet stank - if we are talking about the case I recall from the papers a while back, the reports certainly implied neglect. You just don't accept that not every problem is the responsibility of government. Oh, so you get to decide what my fair share is? Who was it who said To each according to their needs ... I think you have amply demonstrated that you should not be the decider. I definitely would be better at it than you, but I will leave it to our elected officials. I really don't want to be dictator. I think you have demonstrated that you want to pick everyone else's pocket so you can feel better about not helping out personally. If it is government's problem then you don't have to do anything. I prefer to go out and get my hands dirty supporting my community. My standard is there must be a compelling need before I use government to take from my neighbor. Good. Meeting compelling needs is exactly what I'm focusing on. I'm glad we are finally in agreement. Foreign wars of choice are a compelling need? The NEA is a compelling need? The war on drugs (and civil liberties) is a compelling need? Income transfers are a compelling need? No, they are not. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Resodding the mall, was Re: [CGUYS] Senate Approves
He was a politician - same thing. No doubt Tom Oh, that 140K in taxes Daschel is your idol. On Feb 2, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Then why didn't you vote for Bob Barr? He supported all your views. Bob Barr is a hypocrite. While in Congress he was constantly meddling in the affairs of the local people and acting a bully. His favorite tactic was to put holds on legislation important to the locals until they capitulated to his weird damands. A prime example of why I consider cons/neocons to be scumbags. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
