Re: [darktable-user] Base curve and white balance issue with DT 3.0

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 13 janvier 2020 15:28:04 CET Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> Hi Viktors,
> 
> There are two problems in your case:
> 
> 1. Nikon-like alternative basecurve turned just Nikon-like.
> 2. New color preservation settings which messed highlights and colors.
> 
> First issue: I had similar problem in the past. I believe there was
> problem with Exif interpretation. E.g. image information used to show
> Nikon d7100 but now it shows NIKON D7100. Can you try to reimport some
> file and check it in image information?
> 
> Second issue: I addressed it in the past
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3693 and
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3677 — so nothing to
> do.
> 
> Timur.
> 
> On Sun, 2020-01-12 at 13:04 +0200, Viktors Krasovskis wrote:
> > Hi. The DT 3.0 is nice. However I noticed a serious problem when
> > working with my Nikon D7200 RAW files. The DT 2.6.2 version I was
> > using did automatically apply the D7200 base curve preset and the
> > initial rendering of the RAW file looked quite similar to camera's
> > JPEG file (tones, saturation, white balance and the exposure). It was
> > a good starting point for my editing. Now the DT 3.0 applies a wrong
> > base curve preset (nikon like) and when I choose the D7200 base curve
> > preset then the images looks desaturated, underexposed and less
> > detailed. I tried to fix this with the exposure, white balance,
> > saturation and contrast sliders and I still can't get a similar look
> > like in camera's JPEG, the skin tones look weird, the shadows are too
> > dark, bet when I raise them I loose contrast. In other words the
> > colors are not so natural like the were rendered in DT 2.6.2. I've
> > also tried the filmic RGB module (with the base curve and without),
> > still can't adjust the image better as it was done by default in DT
> > 2.6.2. What I'm doing wrong? Is it a bug? I can provide my Nikon RAW
> > and JPEG files to compare.
> > 

One thing to keep in mind: the basecurves give *one* interpretation of the raw 
data, not *the* interpretation. 

And while it provides an easy starting point, there are disadvantages: I 
noticed that in my case, the automatically selected curve (Sony-like) threw 
away about 1 stop in the highlights. And there are more basecurves that behave 
that way.

So following the camera maker's taste has its issues...

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Install on Ubuntu 19.10

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 15 janvier 2020 23:46:22 CET Patrick Shanahan wrote:
(...)
> https://www.darktable.org/install/
>   Ubuntu 16.04, 18.04, 18.10, 19.04
> 
> does noone actually read the web pages ...

Isn't that like reading the manual?



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Re: [darktable-user] Denoise Profiled SLOW ?

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 16 janvier 2020 13:59:30 CET Anna Simon wrote:
> What kind of computer are you using?
> 
> I can definitely confirm that denoise profiled non-local is slower that
> denoise profiled luma/chroma preset. So the difference you have measured
> is probably correct.
> 
No real reason to doubt his values
but...
> On 16.01.20 11:09, Christian wrote:
> > Hi,
> > can you confirm that the profiled-denoise is very slow
> > with the default settings?
> > 
> > My measurement (exporting 1 image):
> > 
> > denoise off: 7.3 s
> > raw denoise: 8.5 s
> > denoise profiled default settings: 53 s (!)
> > denoise profiled luma preset: 13.8 s
> > 
> > OpenCL is disabled.
> 
How were those times measured, and how often were the measurements repeated? 
If those are total times for the development, another process using the disk 
at the wrong moment can throw off the timing. And some system processes do 
write to disk (logging).
The difference between no denoise, raw denoise and luma preset are not 
surprising, the time for profiled denoise at default settings is.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Strange behaviour in Ratings

[Remco Viëtor]

On Monday, 10 February 2020 08:55:19 CET Andrew Greig wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I have been working on a wedding set of images and I have been rating
> good as 4 stars and 2 stars as no good, 1 star images will not be seen
> by the couple. I have been working for hours now and have more to
> follow, but on opening up the project after a shutdown overnight, the
> ratings have gone back to the default 1 star. None of my ratings has
> persisted. I think my work is OK, but now un-rated. I thought ratings
> were written to the sidecar file for each image. Any clues? Is there a
> way to commit the ratings before exiting?
> 
> Many thanks

All I can say is that for me, ratings (like edits, color tags etc.) always 
survived a shutdown of the program. That is under Linux (OpenSuse, now Leap 
version 15.1).

It might help if you tell us what version of darktable, and what OS you are 
using (including version). Also any particulars about how you start darktable, 
where you store the database, etc., might be useful  (if different from 
default). Also, have you used another program to edit or rename the images?

You could also have a look at a few of the sidecar files, to check if the 
ratings are written there.

Remco






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Re: [darktable-user] pre-sorting of unsharp pictures

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 1 mars 2020 08:34:53 CET Dr. A. Krebs wrote:
> Dear Bernhard.
> 
> this looks very promising.
> 
> Can I use it (dt 3.0) already?
> 
> How can I include this feature to pre-sort hundreds of pics?
> I assume I need a scripting thing?
> 
> Anyway, I wish all a wonderful beginning of spring!!!

If it's really urgent, you could have a look at Digikam, which has a "quality 
sorting" that can work on a collection of images.

You find it under the menu item "tools->maintenance", and it works by 
assigning a flag to the images depending on whether they are considered high, 
medium, or low quality. 
It can take into account noise, blur and one or two criteria, where the user 
can decide which to use, and what's the weight assigned to each. 

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Photos with default settings for Canon M3 are very dull

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 1 mars 2020 19:55:53 CET Christian wrote:
> Am 01.03.2020 um 10:26 schrieb openhab.doc:
> > Since darktable 3.0 I am no longer satisfied with the default settings for
> > my Canon M3. The colors of the photos with the default settings of
> > darkroom
> > are very dull compared to JPG images or JPG previews. With darktable 2.6
> > the difference was less.
> > 
> > I use darktable on Manjaro Linux.
> > 
> > How can I give the colours back their luminosity?
> > Is there a slider or module?
> 
> Hi Pierre,
> quick solution may be to set the new "preserve colors" setting in
> basecurve module to "none".
> 
> Better solution is to learn the new recommended RGB-based-workflow
> using modules like filmic-RGB and color balance.
> 
> https://pixls.us/articles/darktable-3-rgb-or-lab-which-modules-help/
> 
> Chris
I'd also check which modules are activated by default. 
The "very dull" look is typically what you get before activating either 
basecurve or filmic RBG (which both more or less map the linear raw image to 
the logarithmic display image).

And, did OP apply any non-standard styles or presets in 2.6?

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] OBS key expired

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 7 mars 2020 14:35:42 CET Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Timur Irikovich Davletshin  [03-07-20 08:04]:
> > https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=graphics:darktable:sta
> > ble&package=darktable
> > 
> > SUSE and Debian
> > 
> > 
> > https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=graphics:darktable:mas
> > ter&package=darktable
> > 
> > Debian - all versions, others - only some of them (e.g. all Ubuntu
> > versions except 18.04 are old).
> > 
> > Timur.
> > 
> > On Sat, 2020-03-07 at 07:51 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > * Timur Irikovich Davletshin  [03-07-20
> > > 
> > > 04:31]:
> > > > darktable OBS Project key was expired on 2020-03-05. Can anyone fix
> > > > it?
> > > > 
> > > > Another issue — those build are not regularly updated, master
> > > > branch
> > > > builds for more than one week. Snapshots from the stable release
> > > > branch
> > > > builds — still 2.6.3.
> > > 
> > > what operating system?
> > > what location?
> > > 
> > > generalities are very difficult to address.
> 
> I know nothing of debian but opensuse has two locations for master and a
> toss-up which to follow, I follow darix:
> 
> 
> https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/graphics:/darktable:/master/openS
> USE_Tumbleweed/x86_64/
> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/darix:/darktable:/master/op
> enSUSE_Tumbleweed/x86_64/
> 
> and again, generalities ???  don't debian and openSUSE have multiple
> versions?

Is the availability of different versions relevant in this case? I'd expect 
all builds to be signed with the same key; if that key expires,  package 
managers will complain, irrespective of versions, etc.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Demosaicing

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 24 avril 2020 15:28:24 CEST Peter Schlaufer wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I wanted to try out, what the demosaicing module was doing to one of my
> pictures, but I could not do anything. I git the message, that demosaicing
> does only work with RAW files, they are however DNG files, because I
> process my RAF files before with Iridient X Transformer. Is this of
> importance?
In short: yes, as your DNG files are *not* raw files.

It says on the Iridient web page that "X Transformer is a utility that can be 
used to convert Fujifilm RAF images to DNG format using Iridient Digital's 
high quality RAW processing algorithms."

A bit later they list the RAW processing stages that can be applied, the
first one mentioned is 
"Interpolation or demosaic processing. 
This transforms the camera sensor's X-Trans or Bayer color filter
information to produce a full color RGB image. This processing is 
always applied by Iridient X-Transformer and cannot be disabled or
undone."

So your particular DNG files aren't raw files, they do not contain the raw 
data to be demosaiced.
That means that darktable's demosaic module has nothing to work on, and will 
*not* be enabled (in short, it won't do anything to your pictures)

But have you tried using the native RAF files in darktable?

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] JPG EXIF DATA

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 29 avril 2020 07:44:31 CEST David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> currently when I export JPG images there is no EXIF data attached. Is
> there some way to include that data?
> 
I didn't find an option to include EXIF data on jpg export, but for me those 
data are attached (latest official version), and as EXIF block.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] interesting results with between-image-matching (SIFT, SfM) and different raw developers.

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 16 mai 2020 04:58:09 CEST Ritchie, Andrew C wrote:
> I've been comparing darktable with different raw developers for the last
> little bit, really hoping I could get it to give me the "best" results. I
> just posted a comparison of my preliminary results on a forum for SfM
> photogrammetry that I frequent. My main finding is that JPGs/TIFs generated
> with darktable and openimageio (and also native DNG) didn't work as well
> for our purposes as JPGs/TIFFs generated with Affinity Photo (!) or Capture
> One. I would love to know what about the RAW processing made these
> softwares work "best" but I wanted to bring it up in case any darktable
> users or devs have any insights. I think I might get better results with
> auto-leveling and using the right colorspaces, but not totally sure what
> darktable is doing differently than CaptureOne or Affinity Photo (though I
> know from a variety of posts that at least in Capture One's case it's
> partly related to input profiles and camera curves). From one of Affinity's
> blog posts on their demosaicking algorithm improvement I'm wondering if
> that's a significant factor.
> 
> Link to my post below, but the quick sum is that with Affinity or Capture
> One post-processing, I can get ~5-10% "better" results than with "raw" (DNG
> is the only supported "RAW" input for the software). With darktable and
> oiio I can't quite match the raw. I tried and didn't finish evaluating
> other softwares because they weren't satisfactory from a color processing
> or performance standpoint. Affinity is barely satisfactory from a
> performance standpoint but I think it's a bug with threadripper support.
> 
> Post link (with pretty chart):
> 
> https://www.agisoft.com/forum/index.php?topic=11952.msg54532#msg54532

If you want useful comments from here, some detail on what you processed, how 
you did it, and what the target was, would be very helpful. 
 
> I know mine is a non-standard use of darktable, but I really like a lot of
> things about the program, so I spent a lot of time trying to get it to work
> well with my raws. At the end I *think* that the limitations of
> auto-applying images were what made other software work better, and I'm
> disappointed that my "best" results weren't with darktable and/or
> openimageio. I think there's a chance that it's because I'm not an image
> expert, and some simple concept or setting is eluding me, but I wanted to
> point out my results in case there are other issues like demosaicing or
> auto-something or ... I don't even know. I think darktable is great and I'm
> going to continue to follow it and would love any ideas folks have to try
> to get better results. I think probably some test pipeline could even be
> automated by a good programmer with hugin's imagematching back-end (sorry
> forget what it's called) - because I imagine a lot of the SIFT algorithms
> are the same. Also there are automated photogrammetry pipelines (like
> Alice) that darktable could be tested with but that's beyond the scope of
> my work now.

I *think* you are working with cartography information, but I'd have to spend 
a lot more time confirming that, than you'd have needed to be more explicit.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 26 mai 2020 08:49:11 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am a new user to Darktable 3. I played a little bit with Darktable 2.xx
> last year, but i'm hoping to now start diving a little deeper in earnest,
> at least as far as my demands as an occasional hobby & travel photographer
> demand it.
> 
> I've been doing a bit of research & am trying to follow the 'now & future
> recommended' Tone Equaliser, Filmic RGB / 'linear' type editing scenario as
> described in various videos & websites that i have found.
> 
> I am getting some very erratic behaviour with respect to history. So
> erratic that its difficult to reduce to a cause with any certainty.
> 
> What i have been able to observe is that it seems to be primarily concerned
> with use of the Filmic RGB module.
> 
> specifically, selecting a previous place in the history stack causes
> behaviours such as:
> 
> * new random occurrences of the Filmic RGB module in the history (sometimes
> with what looks to be cumulative / duplicating processing effect) &/or
> 
> * sudden truncation of the history stack to the point of (what was planned
> to be) a 'temporary' reversion: edits & modules simply disappear from the
> history above the point of reversion, deactivate, & revert to their default
> settings.
> 
> As i am new to Darktable (& v.3) specifically, i thought i would raise here
> in the first instance rather than jump in a 'report' a bug. But, bug or
> not, this is basically rendering this unusable for me at present.
> 
> I'm on an old OSX machine basically frozen at 10.11.6. Longer term, i hope
> to migrate to a dedicated Linux machine for photography (& video) but at
> the moment resource & space restrictions see me using what is effectively
> my 'music' computer.
> 
> I'd appreciate any advice or help, or hopefully someone can reproduce this
> or advise of similar so a solution can be found with next update or release.
> 
> Finally, is there a way to either get a digest of this forum, or interact
> with it in an 'online only' mode (like a Nabble group for example ...) so i
> can keep a lot of unnecessary traffic out of my inbox?
> 
> Appreciate your time & help, & i hope a successful future with Darktable is
> ahead of me once i can get this issue sorted.

Perhaps it's mostly a misunderstanding about the way the history stack works:
It shows the order in which modules were actived or had their parameters 
changed.

 The order in which modules are shown there has *no* relation with the order 
in which modules are applied. Only the latest (closest to the top) version of 
each module will be used to generate the final image (duplicates you created 
explicitly will have a unique name, and count as a separate module)

If you add a module, then add a second one, when you then change the 
parameters of the first, you will see an extra copy of the first module in the 
history stack. E.g. alternating between "exposition" and "filmic" will get you 
a whole stack of "filmic" and "exposition" in the history stack, which is 
perfectly normal.
Using the "compress history stack" button will remove all the superseded 
items, and only keep the last added version.

Also, if you select a module in the history stack, and then do an edit, 
everything above the selected line will be discarded, and then the new line 
will be added.

If you want to keep a snapshot to compare two stages in your edit, can use the 
"snapshots" item just above the history stack: select the line whare you want 
to take a snapshot, and click on the "take snapshot" button. Then make sure 
you select the top line in the history stack again...
You'll see a new line appear under "snapshots" with the name and number of the 
line selected when you took the snapshot. Click on that one, and you'll see a 
split view with half showing the current edit, other half showing the snapshot 
state. A second click on the selected shapshot gets you back to the "normal" 
view.

Tl;dr: for simple edits, you can mostly ignore the history stack, apart from 
an occasional compression if it gets too long.

I hope this clarifies the history stack functioning a bit,

Remco.







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Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 26 mai 2020 10:01:19 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote:
> Thanks Remco.
> 
> I appreciate the points you are making, however i think there is more to
> the issue than this.
> 
> I didn't experience these issues when i toyed with Darktable last year in
> V2, not did i experience the issues when i initially installed V3 & played
> with the more 'familiar' editing strategy of using Tone Curve, Colour Zones
> etc, & flicking back & forward in the history to assess the progress of my
> edits. After all, what else would the history be designed to do?
> 
> I'll certainly use 'snapshots' going forward, but i think there is an issue
> here. Going 'back' in the history for example occasionally drops everything
> subsequent / above in the stack simply by making the selection, without
> subsequent editing.
> 
> Similarly, occasionally the effect of Filmic RGB seems to 'duplicate' or
> compound spontaneously on the image for no reason, & this happens
> concurrent with multiple instances appearing in the history.
> 
> Often multiple instances of Filmic RGB spontaneously appear in the history
> with no logical correlation to any history compression action, or
> associated module usage.
> 
> I can only describe the overall effect as 'chaotic', whereas the scenario
> you describe is logical & predictable.
> 
> So I do feel like there is a bona-fide issue here. I'll continue to play
> with it, & report additional symptoms or behaviour i see as problematic,
> but there appears to be no effective diagnosis tool i can export or provide
> by way of 'history' that leads to the problem, as the 'history' itself
> appears to be either part of the problem, or disconnected from the reality
> of the user intention or command sequence at some stage.
> 

Something else I noticed: sometimes when I start editing basecurve and sharpen 
are auto-applied, sometimes they aren't (there seems to be a pattern, but I 
haven't quite nailed it down). In such cases, using filmicRGB becomes 
"strange". And I did specirfically set dt *not* to auto-apply the basecurve.
 And I also use version 3.0.2.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Can I invoke an external programme from DarkTable

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 20 juin 2020 14:47:22 CEST Anton Aylward wrote:
(...)
> 
> My first thought on seeing the original question was "yes, but why? this is
> DT not LR".  I'm a Linux user and not conversant wit those windows tools in
> detail but it occurs to me that what PS is doing is 'layers'.  Is that the
> specific requirement? As you say, Guillermo, DT's tools are powerful.  I
> have a number of books that notionally describe working in PS but I have no
> problem mentally translating them to work in DT.

Basically, DT is a parametric editor that works on one image: you describe the 
transformation, possibly with a mask to limit the area to which it is applied. 
That works for a lot of the required editing, but sometimes you need to be 
able to work with pixel precision, or with several files at once. 

And that's where programs like krita, Gimp and PS come in. Creating a very 
precise mask for e.g. dodging and burning is a lot easier in such programs 
than it is in DT, as you can literally paint (a mask) pixel by pixel. Also, 
things like adding precisely placed text is relatively easy. 
The down-side of that is that the image files they need can get very large. 
And you almost need a graphics tablet to comfortably work with that precision.

Layers are needed for some jobs (like making composites) and handy for others, 
but they are not the critical difference.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Turning Darktable into a file manager

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 26 juin 2020 23:43:21 CEST August Schwerdfeger wrote:
> As far as "user stories" go, I recall that users have written to this list
> more than once about two specific missing features: some form of batch
> renaming, and support for the full range of IPTC and other metadata, which
> is a must-have for many professionals. Neither of these would preclude the
> use of other digital asset management tools.

The only thing that's really important in that case is that dt *preserves* all 
metadata from the original file and allows to write all those metadata to 
duplicates and derived files (on export). That would include any metadata dt 
doesn't understand or use. Afaik, that is not quite the case now (duplicates 
seem to lose some fields, that may be redundant, but were present in the 
original XMPs).

Editing of said metadata could (should?) be done by a dedicated application. 
I think it is a bit too much to expect dt to handle all metadata editing: XMP 
is extensible through XML namespaces, which means that any user can add valid 
fields to the metadata, which dt would then have to know how to interpret.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Turning Darktable into a file manager

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 26 juin 2020 22:22:46 CEST August Schwerdfeger wrote:
> The optimal solution, then, would be to allow those who want file-manager
> capabilities to get and/or implement them without having to distract the
> core developers from the image-editing side.
> 
> I think this would be best done through the Lua API. There are already many
> file-manager-type operations fully supported through Lua, and a few
> additions/improvements there would be more beneficial than any amount of
> file-manager capabilities added in the Darktable core, since it would
> enable people who are not so familiar with C or the innermost guts of
> Darktable to make more contributions, leaving the core developers free to
> tackle the image editing.

That would only work *if* those Lua add-ons are kept as *separate* downloads, 
with a separate maintainer. If they become part of the standard package, the 
core developers would de facto become the maintainers of that code. 
Especially important if Lua can change (or the API exposed by dt changes...). 

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Server client mode?

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 5 juillet 2020 19:50:45 CEST Guillermo Rozas wrote:
> > If I understand correctly - SQLite won't work well in a client / server
> > mode
> > 
> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1321493/sqlite-for-client-server
> 
> In the case of darktable the problem described there (performance because
> of simultaneous access) won't be a big issue. The problem is that SQLite
> doesn't have the access locking and multi-access control baked in, you need
> to code your own database server that includes those features. So it won't
> be as simple as saying "let multiple instances access the library", there
> must be a middle-program written for it.
> 
> You could use another database format, like digiKam that has MySQL support
> (optional and experimental), but then the user needs to provide its own
> MySQL server, so it's not 'easy' to use.
> 
> > It may be an approach to go around with synchronizing the DB on 2 or
> > more machines (I haven't tried it actually)
> 
> You can certainly do that, but you will still have the same problems I
> described before (probably worse because syncing is real time in this
> case). The problem is not how do you share the databases, the problem is
> that you share them at all ;)

Another problem is latency, whenever there's a network involved. That was a 
recurrent problem for Digikam, even with MySQL, simply due to the amount of 
data that had to be transported over a relatively narrow channel (compared to 
local disk access). It wouldn't be that noticable when editing files one by 
one, but using the DAM functions could be slow...

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Server client mode?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 6 juillet 2020 07:35:59 CEST Michael Mosmann wrote:
> Am 05.07.20 um 23:02 schrieb Guillermo Rozas:
> > Really, the best option now is the local copies feature. Anything else
> > is fighting against the way darktable is designed to work (as a
> > standalone local application). You can do it, but, as they say, "you can
> > keep the pieces when you break it".
> 
> Just for my understanding: IMHO darktable will modify the image metafile
> on any change ... so one could use just some sync tools like nextcloud
> to propagate the changes between different computers.
> 
> Is there some information which is not stored in image metafiles and
> only stored in the local darktable db?
It's the other way around: creating (and updating) sidecar files is optional 
(Settings -> core options -> XMP). But even if you have all info in sidecars, 
changes need to get into the database: sidecars being optional, dt uses its 
database for normal operation.

In any case, there isn't really a problem when dealing with a single user, or 
when you can *guarantee* single access. The real problems start when there is 
a possibility of several users accessing the same data. Still no problem when 
they are only reading data. But when users can also *write* to the same data 
at the same time (as when they start editing images), accidents (i.e. data 
loss) will happen, the only question is "when?". 

A simple example: user A loads an image for editing. B loads the same image to 
edit. He gets the same version as A. Now A makes some changes and writes those 
back to the server. Now compare the version B has with the version on the 
server. And what happens when B then makes their edits, and saves to the 
server? 

Preventing such data races is not trivial.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Server client mode?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 6 juillet 2020 08:28:40 CEST Torstein Eide wrote:
> I would agree that latency is not a problem. I don't think the server side
> need to handle all work that the client does.
> The client should only periodically send changes to the server database, as
> a background task. So I think client still need a database, but with a
> server that handles the storage/backup/config.

Latency concerning database updates probably isn't a problem. Image transfers 
might be, though. 

And I'm afraid that accumulating changes locally for bulk transfer to the 
server is asking for problems when several users have access to the server 
*simultanuously*. Solvable, of course, but like anything in parallel and 
distributed computing, not trivial.

Note: when you can absolutely guarantee that only *one* user can have access 
during a darktable session, a lot of the pitfalls disappear.





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Re: [darktable-user] Over/Under Exposure indicator.

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 6 juillet 2020 07:29:41 CEST David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> Can somebody please confirm: if the over/under exposure indicator is
> 'on' and the softproofing indicator is also 'on', then the underexposure
> markings are _not_ displayed. The overexposure indicators are correctly
> shown.
> 
> If others are seeing the same I will redmine report.
I keep seeing both under- and over-exposure markers in sooft-proof mode. 
Perhaps this depends on your softproof profile?

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Darkroom module tabs (on the right side) disappeared ?

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 7 juillet 2020 17:10:29 CEST marc.ca...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> In Darkroom (DT 3.02 for Windows), I don't get the module tabs (on the right
> side) for favourite, basic, tone, color, . anymore.  I get what is in the
> history stack but in different sequence.
> 
Did you by any chance click the small triangle at the right border (those 
triangles cycle through the different states for the corresponding bar, one 
state is "collapsed", i.e. invisible).

That the order in the right bar differs from the order in the history stack is 
normal, history stack shows modules in the order you added/modified them 
(oldest at the bottom), iirc the right bar shows them in order of application 
in the pixel pipe (lowest first).

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Best demosaicing method for sony alpha 6600 sensor

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 10 juillet 2020 13:15:22 CEST Victor wrote:
> I see that DT 3.0.2 defaults to the fast PPG method to demosaic images.
> I wonder whether for my sony alpha 6600 sensor a better choice for
> demosaicing exists.
> 
> I tried amaze but don't know how to set the "color smoothing" and "match
> greens" options and above all hot to evaluate results.

Choice of demosaicing (from the provided options) doesn't depend on the 
sensor, but on the subject. 

In general, the "Amaze" method can give better results, but is a lot slower. 
It can also give some mosaic artifacts, though, in which case the VNG4 method 
might be better, but that one gives slightly softer results (see manual).

The "color smoothing" and "match greens" are usually not needed, but you can 
experiment with them to see if in your case there is an improvement.

Which method and which settings to use depend on the subject, and the final 
use of the image: if you only prepare images for screen viewing, PPG should be 
good enough (the improvements from the other methods will disappear during the 
downscaling); Otherwise, judge your image at 100% magnification, and see what 
gives the best results.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Camera calibration profiles

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 24 juillet 2020 11:15:26 CEST Mikael Ståldal wrote:
> I have been using Adobe Lightroom 6 for quite some time, and now I am
> trying to switch to Darktable.
> 
> In Lightroom, I could apply camera calibration profiles to make RAW
> images look like JPEGs from from camera. And also chose between
> different profiles from the camera (like portrait, landscape,
> monochrome, vivid). Is it possible to do this in Darktable?

In darktable, you can use the different basecurve presets for that (only for 
the "standard" rendering, afaik). There are some options in the settings 
dialog for that.

But keep in mind that, although using the basecurve rendering gives a quick 
and reasonable result, it has disadvantages. I lose about 1 stop in the 
highlights using the standard basecurve for my Sony camera. Also, it can be 
much harder to get a decent result if the image needs extensive adjustments.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] How is initial content of history stack built?

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 25 juillet 2020 09:15:21 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
> Correct, previously I was trying to get monochrome applied
> automatically. But, aside from knowing that I was not trying to do that
> in this case, please note that I have not said the whole image is in
> monochrome; only a selection of pixels have turned a sort of 'polluted'
> grey - with, apparently, some red in them. 

When you have defined a preset to be auto-applied, it will be applied whenever 
you open an image for the first time in the darkroom (provided the image 
matches, of course)

> I don't see how this can be
> the result of some preset as, as part of this learning exercise, I have
> performed a clean install of DT and all my test images, newly copied
> from LightRoom.

A clean install means that you also removed the old database and configuration 
files? Note that some of these can be hidden (~/.config/darktable/* under 
linux, no idea where to find such files for MS-Windows).

> None of this answers the question of how did the
> monochrome module get into the history stack in the first place. 

Well, that part *was* answered by Patrick Shanahan...
As you seemed to have set up a preset to be auto-applied to "matching images", 
that preset will still exist, *and be applied*, when you just re-install the 
program.
Btw, did you follow the suggestion from Patrick, starting darktable with 
"  darktable --library :memory: "? 
Among other things, you won't get any preset applied on importing an image/
folder.

> Of
> course one valid explanation is that I am so intellectually stunted that
> I do things  without realising it or perform actions with no idea of
> their consequences. If this were the case,  would I be able to use DT at
> all?

I'd rather not comment on this.

Remco






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Re: [darktable-user] Re: Manual lines for perspective correction?

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 25 juillet 2020 11:37:47 CEST Felix E. Klee wrote:
> Terry Pinfold 
> 
> writes:
> > I tested the image on the latest Windows version of DT and the auto
> > correction options worked well for me.
> 
> Thanks for trying it out.  Here is my result with Darktable 3.0.2 on
> Windows 10:
> 
> https://archive.org/details/p-1100853-corrected
> 
> I don’t like it.  The dominant vertical lines on the left and the right
> side of the image are not straight.  One problem is that they’re bent
> due to optical distortion and maybe also due to construction.  Still, I
> think having the top and bottom points aligned would look much better.
> So if I could draw two green lines manually, then this would be a quick
> solution.
> 
> > You can put guides on and use manual slider controls to set yourself
> > if you prefer.
> 
> I know, but it’s no fun.  Darktable is sluggish on my machine (i7-8650U,
> 16GiB, Intel graphics).
> 
> > Applying specific lens distortion correction first may help improve
> > final result, but I was pleased with the job auto did.
> 
> Yes, with that camera lens distortion correction is needed.  The lens,
> as far as I know, is identical to that in its predecessor, the DMC-FZ5.
> 
> This image of course is not great anyhow, having flare and bad contrast.
> Nevertheless it’s good for illustrating my issue with perspective
> correction in Darktable.
> 
> > BTW, GIMP has very good manual perspective tool options if DT result
> > is not to your liking.
> 
> That takes too much time, plus it’s destructive.  I want to process
> images quickly.

You can try the "crop and rotate" module, with the keystone option. You set 4 
points, defining 2 lines that should be vertical, or 2 that should be 
horizontal (or both). As there's no interactive correction, that is fast. 
Click OK and the correction is applied. Then you can crop as wanted.

Of course, that won't take care of the curved verticals, either, but that's a 
job for the lens correction module.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] DT: I must be holding it wrong....

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 25 juillet 2020 13:36:37 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
(...)  I’m using one of my better photos as a test
> case. Looking at LR I can see that I had to adjust just two variables 
> (exposure and highlights) in LR to correct the exposure defects and  get
> a result that pleases me – especially the look of the sky. I guess this
> took about 1 minute to do.
> 
> In contrast I have spent more 6 months trying to get comfortable with DT
> and specifically more than 6 hours on this one image. The results I get
> are an embarrassment, even to me (which is not easy). Is there a way
> that I can effectively describe the situation so that others, with the
> necessary skill and confidence in DT, can advise me where I am going wrong?

If Lightroom starts by applying a treatment that's as close as possible to the 
in-camera jpeg when you start editing an image, you're indeed in for a shock 
when you start with darktable...

That said, any new program takes time to master, and the more powerful the 
program, the steeper the learning curve. And darktable is powerful.

I got the impression that you were trying to do things which you didn't quite 
understand (e.g. the auto-applied preset), and which you do not need for 
editing a single image.

Your best bet is to start from a completely clean install (don't forget to 
remove the ~/.config/darktable directory, and perhaps the .xmp files modified 
by darktable. You might perhaps want to start with a small selection of images 
where you do *not* carry the LR sidecar files (so you really start from the 
basic raw file). Copy those to a separate directory, and play there for a 
while. darktable can work on any image on your drive(s), it's not bound to any 
particular directory structure.

Then work on a single image, and one that doesn't pose particular problems (no 
blown highlights, not too many out-of-gamut colours, ...). Try and get a 
decent result from that, and try to specify what's not as you want it. And 
don't be afraid to start again a few times. The "duplicate manager" allows you 
to easily create a new version with previous processing removed.

You won't get perfect results the first few tries, though...

And while you are restarting, you might want to have a look at this article,
describing a (relatively) new workflow:

  https://discuss.pixls.us/t/darktable-3-0-for-dummies-in-3-modules/15849

And a bit more technical:

  https://pixls.us/articles/darktable-3-rgb-or-lab-which-modules-help/

Note that this filmic-based workflow will not give you results close to the 
in-camera jpeg. Then again, that shouldn't be the goal in raw development 
anyway: in-camera processing is set up to deal with the largest possible 
fraction of images satisfying the largets possible fraction of users, but has 
Limitations. One that I hit: the Sony basecurve cut off about 1EV from my 
dynamic range in the highlights... And I find the results often over-sharpened 
(which can cause visible halos at high contrast edges).



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Re: [darktable-user] DT: I must be holding it wrong....

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 25 juillet 2020 14:39:51 CEST Guillermo Rozas wrote:
> > Is there a way that I can effectively describe the situation so that
> > others, with the necessary skill and confidence in DT, can advise me where
> > I am going wrong?
> 
> You can post it in the Play Raw category at Pixls.us (
> https://discuss.pixls.us/c/processing/playraw/30). Attach to the post the
> RAW file with an adequate license, and optionally your XMP and JPG export.
> You can also describe what you want to achieve, and where you think you're
> falling. Posts there usually receive several answers with different ways of
> editing the RAW, and you can ask about the ideas behind each edit to get an
> insight not only in the technical part, but also the artistic part. I've
> learnt a lot by just reading the posts there.
> 
Do keep an eye on the programs used by the others, not everyone there uses 
darktable. It still shows what's possible, but you might not be able to 
reproduce easily in dt what someone else did in e.g. RawTherapee.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] DT & life on the road

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 4 août 2020 16:53:57 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * darkta...@911networks.com  [08-04-20 10:39]:
> > Soon (I hope), I'll be going on the road with my laptop. DT is
> > installed. My main DT is on my desktop at home.
> > 
> > I wouldn't be surprised if I took around 5000 images. I will have a
> > large external USB hard drive.
> > 
> > I'd like to review the images and do some "light processing" while on
> > the road but the rest will be done later at home.
> > 
> > I don't want to have to do the work twice. What do you suggest to pass
> > the DT work done on the laptop to the desktop at home?
> 
> run dt on you laptop as:
>   darktable --library :memory:
> 
> set dt to always write xmp files
> 
> when you get home, import the saved photo w/xmp files on dt using your
> normal/master system.
> 
> all will be there including your edits, tagginng, ...

If I'm not mistaken, OP also uses Digikam. My suggestion would be to do 
initial tagging and culling there, and adding titles/captions, with digikam 
set to write sidecars. Doing that once returned home means you will probably 
have forgotten some of the interesting details. And handling 5000 images after 
some time has lapsed doesn't improve that...

Then you can use darktable as described by Patrick. The sidecars written by 
digikam are picked up by darktable with no problem wrt to keywords, captions, 
titles, and rating (due to different handling of colour flags, those are not 
transferred afaik).

And: do some tests before leaving (to see if the transfer works as it should)

And of course: enjoy the trip.
Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] OpenCL on a MacBook Pro

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 14 août 2020 11:02:44 CEST Giuseppe Pagnoni wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have just installed the latest 3.2.1 version on a 13" MacBook Pro
> (latest model) with an Intel Iris Plus Graphics 1536 GPU.  I don't
> really see much of an increase in speed when I activate the OpenCL
> support.  Is this the way it is supposed to be? Could you suggest a
> way to test it more rigorously?
> 
> thank you in advance for any comments
> 
> giuseppe

Does darktable actually *use* the OpenCL? Best way to check that is starting 
dt with >darktable -d opencl (manual, section 10.2.5). 

Also, on MacOS, compiling the required opencl kernels can fail partway through 
the process. As the kernels that were compiled succesfully are retained, the 
(only) solution to this seems to be restarting darktable several times. Once 
all the kernels are succesfully compiled, opencl should work.
If this is the case, you should get compiler error messages in the darktable 
output from darktable -d opencl.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 19 août 2020 23:00:17 CEST Guillermo Rozas wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, den 19.08.2020, 14:40 -0400 schrieb Michael:
> > > I thought compiling led to faster?
> > 
> > This might be the case or not. Depending on your CPU. When you
> > compile for your machine, the compiler can set all optimization
> > options according to your system. A package maintiner however
> > has to compile it in a way that it runs on all possible CPUs
> > the package is meant for. This means it can not take best advantage
> > of non standart CPU features you might have paid you CPU mmanufacturer
> > for. A special built for your system can.
> 
> That was the case before (although I don't know how much faster). However,
> last time I asked I was told that darktable's binaries are now compiled for
> different architectures [1], so this should be less important. So... YMMV ;)
> 
> Regards,
> Guillermo
> 
> [1] https://discuss.pixls.us/t/darktable-3-0-1-compilation-issues/17084/4

A lot of the calculation-intensive work is done through openCL, and those 
parts are compiled at *runtime*. So getting the non-openCL part a few percent 
faster isn't going to have that much influence, the more as that part concerns 
user interaction. And user-interaction is boring for computers (they spend 
most of their time waiting...)

And getting the fastest possible executable means picking the right compiler 
settings, not always that straigh-forward.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Darktable 3.2, a short review

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 20 août 2020 17:18:22 CEST marc.ca...@gmail.com wrote:
> Jack,
> 
> I do indeed think that I also will not be able to easily convince friends to
> use darktable. As an amateur, my reason for trying to use dt has to do with
> the subscription model that is being established more and more by software
> publishers. Not only by Adobe, also Microsoft does that with Office 365. So
> you might convince your friends as follows.
>
 You may or may not like the subscription model, but buying the software and 
upgrades wasn't cheap either (afaik, yearly costs came to about the same 
amount). 

> “If you don't want to be held in hostage financially with your own
> collection of photos in the catalog, you should consider leaving Lightroom.
> Because you cannot control the price and the easiness of access to your own
> work in the catalog.”
>
As for being held hostage: if you stop paying for LR etc., you will not be 
able to easily modify your existing edits, true. Otoh, if for whatever reason 
you can no longer use darktable, you'll find yourself in the exact same 
situation... 

In both cases, you'll still have your original files and any edits you 
exported to an external file (jpg, tiff, png, ...)

And in both cases, if you  write sidecar files, you'll have access to all the 
metadata as well (if they weren't written with the exports).

> Furthermore, I don't really trust Capture One in that area either. There is
> speculation that they also may apply a subscription only model in the
> future.

Keep in mind that those (windows) programs are written and maintained by large 
corporations, with a *paid* staff of programmers, documentation writers etc. 
There is no way that a free open source program like darktable can reach a 
similar level of staffing. 

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] to compile darktable or not....

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 21 août 2020 03:58:38 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * darkta...@911networks.com  [08-20-20 20:47]:
(...)
> > I'm soon setting up a laptop with Opensuse Leap. I'd like to have
> > the latest DT.
> > 
> > I've never compiled DT before but I would like to compile it myself with
> > all the "bell & whistles".
> > 
> > Is there a script for compile all the "extra" for before adding them
> > into DT?
> 
> the instructions on github page work fine.
> on your openSUSE system, first you need the necessary apps to do the
> building,
>   zypper -v si -d darktable
> 
> now follow github instructions.

That said, in my experience there usually is a compiled version available for 
Opensuse rather soon after a new version is published. Although you'll need  
one of the additional (OBS) repositories.

And be aware that things can get hairy if ever you have to compile 
dependencies as well (like how do you solve version incompatibilities).

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] iop order issues ruined many old edits (3.2.1)

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 5 septembre 2020 18:15:53 CEST Scott wrote:
> Hello.  I've recently updated to DT 3.2.1 and I've found that many
> (most?) of my old edits are now ruined when I open them in darkroom.
> I think it consistently occurs when I have two instances of profiled
> denoise in versions before DT 3.  For years I edited my pictures with
> the 2 profiled denoise instances as I found recommended a few times
> (one for luma and one for chroma), which makes me surprised that there
> are not many others with this issue.  I did not use DT 3 before 3.0.2
> since I knew there were issues with iop order in 3.0.0 and I didn't
> want to risk being in the situation that I'm now in.  The vast
> majority of my edits are in DT 2, mostly 2.6 series.  The link below
> contains some screenshots and additional information, so I won't
> repeat it all here.  A few devs have indicated that I've lost my work
> in this issue report, but I figured I'd ask here for any additional
> tips or ideas before throwing away hundreds of hours of edits.
> 
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/6207
> 
> Thanks for any ideas!
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

It seems that this was an issue present in some *development* versions *only*.
As I never use those for serious work, it's not surprising I haven't had any 
of those problems.

And this kind of problems is the *reason* I don't use development versions for 
anything I consider serious work...

That said, would the following work?
  - disable both profiled denoise instances
  - click "compress history stack" (that should remove the old active 
instances from the history stack)
  - in the history stack, move to the line just below those two now disabled 
modules (you should now be on the third line in the history stack)
  - click again on "compress history stack". 
You should now have no instances of profiled denoise in your stack.

And, are all your old edits affected, or only those you edited with the faulty 
dt version?

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Lens recognized but not found warning

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 6 septembre 2020 12:27:19 CEST J. Paul Bissonnette wrote:
> in the Darktable 3.2.1 Lens Correction module
> 
> Camera shown as Olympus, E-M5 MarkII
> Lens shown as Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-100mm IS Pro
> warning or comment line
> camera/lens not found -  please select manually.
> 
> The lens is in the lensfun database.
Check that the name is exactly the same in database and dt module



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Re: [darktable-user] Can DT be loaded onto MAC running Mojave OS

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 10 septembre 2020 11:46:20 CEST Terry Pinfold wrote:
> Hi all,
>   Can DT be loaded onto MAC running  Mojave OS? I have a student who
> has a Mac with Mojave and is unsure about loading the latest release of DT.
> She currently has 3.0.0 loaded and it works.
No idea of there is a current dt build for that verqion of MacOS, but:

Why does she want to switch to the latest release? Does she need the filmic 
developments, or certain bug fixes? If not, and she has a working setup, it 
might be safer to stay with 3.0.0, at least until the end of the project.

If she still wants to switch, at the very least make sure of a good (double) 
backup of the database, and make sure there's still a 3.0.0 version available 
for her system.

Remco.





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Re: [darktable-user] Re: Question regarding watermark location in Ubuntu Linux

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 3 octobre 2020 19:14:36 CEST Top Rock Photography wrote:
> One thing which occurred to me, and I cannot see why this will be so, but I
> thought of permissions on your files. Do this….
> 
> >  ls -l ~/.config/darktable/watermarks/*.svg
> 
> and you should see something to the effect of
> 
> >  -rw-rw-??- 1 $USER1 $USER2 ??? MM DD 
> > 
> > /home/$USER1/.config/darktable/watermarks/MyWatermark.svg
> 
> First off, $USER1 and $USER2 would normally be the same thing. (If it is
> not, that does not mean that something is wrong; just that something is
> unusual, and that might be a problem).

Well, on my system (and most, if not all, other linux/unix systems I've seen),
$USER1 is indeed your login name, but $USER2 (group) is *not* the same, 
commonly I'd expect a normal user to be a member of group "users".

> Second, $USER1 ought to be your Linux login username. (If it is not, then
> something is probably wrong).
> Finally, depending on what $USER1 and $USER2 are, the lines ought to start
> with one of,
> -rw-r- …
> -rw-rw …
> -rw-r--r-- …
> -rw-rw-rw- …
The only important part here is the first group of "rw-", the others won't 
change anything (in this respect), as darktable is running with the login name 
as user.

> If it does not, then we may have an idea of where to start.
> 
> So tell us what you see when you type the command, and we can possibly go
> from there.
> (If what you see is one of the four above listed patterns, and
> $USER1==$USER2, then I am still stumped, but it may still help to know).

As I said "$USER1==$USER2" would be strange...

for OP:
Something else that *may* play a role (based on some other questions about 
access I've seen): are you by any chance using a snap package for version 
3.2.1, and a different install method for 3.0.2? 

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Raw Denoise

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 19 octobre 2020 02:40:33 CEST David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> I am noticing recently that 'raw-denoise' is creating a soft/smudged
> look on my images. For some time I have been automatically using this
> module on all images. The problem that I am seeing may be related to my
> switch to filmic processing  I wonder if anybody else is seeing
> something similar.
> 
> Manjaro/Arch/git version ... fuju XPro2 camera.

When it's too strong, yes, it blurs the image, like all denoising routines. 
Filmic shouldn't have anything to do with it, but might make the effect more 
visible if you lift the shadows more.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Question regarding SVG files and why they work differently

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 26 octobre 2020 13:27:52 CET Willy Williams wrote:
> The end result found is that Inkscape does not have the ability to embed
> fonts into a .svg file. Ubuntu Linux does not respond to fonts as
> Windows does.  I've had to resign myself to the fact that a logo
> designed to work well in darktable on Windows must be redesigned to work
> tolerably well in darktable under Ubuntu Linux, and the fact that the
> two will not look identical under both operating systems due to Windows'
> ability to kern fonts as needed while Linux seems to lack the kerning
> ability.
Can't you transform a text to curves? in that case, you'd freeze the 
lettershape and the kerning, while keeping scalability.

I know that fonts are not supposed to scale linearly, so unless your logo is 
pure text, scaling would change the visible aspect in any case.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 5 novembre 2020 09:15:37 CET Archie Macintosh wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 06:44, Martin Straeten 
> wrote: 
> 
> > Best solution to get nikon colors is using the software provided by nikon
> 
> Indeed. Isn’t that the digital equivalent of choosing to use
> Kodachrome  — the sort of choice we all made in the film days when
> there was no equivalent to what we now call ‘RAW’.

But always work on a *copy* of the original raw file. 
We've seen a few problems with esp. nikon raw files (.NEF) that were 
attributed to Nikon's software modifying the NEF files in a way that made them 
unreadable for most other software. Not a pleasant surprise if it hits you and 
you do not have a backup. And this can happen with any software that writes to 
raw files!

>Don’t be satisfied with a look you don’t like even after hours of
>work, just because of some spurious ‘moral’ argument that ‘RAW is
>best’.
If you like the look of the camera jpegs, why even bother with raw 
development? If it's to reproduce the in-camera look, you're wasting your 
time...

Raw development is good if you do *not* like the look your camera produces, or 
when you have images the camera software can't handle (images with high 
dynamic range come to mind, or images with a lot of "led blue", like some 
theatre settings...). But raw development has to be learned...

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Getting machine JPG colours in RAW editing

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 6 novembre 2020 05:29:37 CET David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> This conversation is taking place on a darktable forum ... I am not sure
> why options for corrupting a RAW file with other pieces of software is
> really relevant.

Well, OP was asking about getting the same output from his raw as the camera 
produces, he was advised that the easiest way would be to use Nikon's 
software. Some versions of which have been noted for modifying the NEFs, 
making them unreadable for many other programs, among which dt.

Are you saying that we should not suggest alternate solutions (with mention of 
potential pitfalls) because "This conversation is taking place on a darktable 
forum" ?

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] darktable + OpenCL

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 7 novembre 2020 02:06:34 CET ternaryd wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> OpenCL worked just fine with darktable, until
> this morning, when I updated my debian sid.
> darktable-cltest writes:
> 
> - could not find opencl runtime library
>   'libOpenCL'
> - could not find opencl runtime library
>   'libOpenCL.so'
> - found opencl runtime library 'libOpenCL.so.1'
> - opencl library 'libOpenCL.so.1' found on your
>   system and loaded
> - could not get platforms: -1001
> - FINALLY: opencl is NOT AVAILABLE on this
>   system.
> 
(...)
> 
> Is there anything else I could look out for?
> 
> Thanks,
Is the (proprietary) NVidia driver used (lsmod)?

Without it, no openCL (and you have
>- could not get platforms: -1001
listed in your output)

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] darktable + OpenCL

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 7 novembre 2020 21:29:13 CET Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2020 19:46:24 +0100
> 
> KOVÁCS István  wrote:
> > It has been reported that a new driver, compatible with kernel 5.9, is
> > available.
> > https://discuss.pixls.us/t/linux-and-darktable/21113/6
> 
> This is wrong since the kernel will not load the proprietary Nvidia
> blobs as the are currently. My Nvidia version is 450.80 and the opencl
> libraries as rejected to be loaded by the kernel. The opencl library
> will not be able to be loaded until Nvidia fixes it and until this is
> done your only option is to revert to kernel 5.8.

But, according to the linked thread on pixlus, the newest NVidia driver is 
version *455.38* ...




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Re: [darktable-user] Scanning and EXIF information

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 15 novembre 2020 21:52:02 CET Andrew Greig wrote:
> Thanks Stephane,
> 
> I have taken your warning on messing with RAW files on board. I can
> produce a text file with my information and store it with the RAW files.
> Is it possible to change the data exported to a jpg or png to reflect
> the settings for the images? And leave the RAW files untouched?

You could add the scanning info as a caption in darktable, it won't be stored 
in the raw file, but darktable will keep it in the database (and sidecar), and 
export it to the jpg/png.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Reset the processing stack of some images

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 22 novembre 2020 10:06:29 CET bjodev wrote:
> Hello DT-Users,
> is there any easy way to discard the processing stack of a bunch of
> images, without resetting the stack manually for each of them?
> I want to redo some of my edits, without reimporting the images, as I
> would loose the rating and tagging on those images.
> 
> So I am looking for a "fresh start" that only affects the edits and not
> the rating, tagging, geopositioning etc.
Select the images in the lighttable view, go to the "history stack" panel in 
the right sidebar, and click "discard history".

Alternatively, and that would allow comparing the new edit with the old,
go into darkroom mode and use the duplicate manager to create a "virgin" copy. 
Afaik, that preserves tagging and such, but starts with a minimal history 
stack. Note that such a "duplicate" does *not* copy the image itself, it just 
creates a new entry for editing (and an extra sidecar file, if you write 
those)

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] lighttable/folder/open takes a long time

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 23 novembre 2020 12:16:35 CET GianLuca Sarto wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> it's not really an issue, just wondering...
> 
> I load my RAWs in one folder which has now about 10K images.
> 
> Each time I add a bunch of 30-50 images, it reads all folder just to add
> the new ones.
> 
> Does it has to be so?
> 
> I mean, rsync has the ability to filter files that are already on
> destination, could the same feature be implemented in DT?
Rsync still has to check some data for each file as well. Which means the 
whole directory has to be read in (not each individual file, in first 
instance). And rsync "just" compares raw directory info.

As you add the images to an existing folder, dt has to check each file against 
its *database* to see if the file is present, and if there have been changes 
since last startup. Database queries have more overhead than simple directory 
comparisons, so will be slower. 

How long does dt take to add those 30-50 files?

Another question is whether storing all the raws in one flat directory is the 
fastest in normal use. Unless you always use a filter, scrolling through the 
files is going to be slow. Using sub-directories probably speeds up using dt. 
(and once a directory is imported, the data is retained in the database, so 
e.g. searches will see all the imported images) 

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] dt 3.2.1 freezes on every import, probably user error; how to correct?

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 29 novembre 2020 17:34:04 CET tony Hamilton wrote:
> Not sure that I fully understand 'run from the command-line' to import a
> file or a folder, but when I pass the address of a previously unseen
> folder to darktable using CLI it opens that folder with no problem,
> giving me darkroom access to all the included images. I don't see any
> errors, but it should be noted that I wouldn't know where to look for
> them if there were any. I cannot tell if I am using OpenCL or not. A
> comprehensive search on the internet returns NO 'hits' which discuss
> OpenCL on Linux Mint 20, so I have no information on how to tell if
> OpenCL is installed, or being used. I am using Linux Mint 20 driving an
> nVidia GTX 645 OEM card, using driver nvidia-driver-455 version
> 455.38-0ubuntu0-20.04.1.

Iirc, the darktable manual has a whole section on openCL, and another on the 
different start-up options. Did you read those?

Also, openCL isn't all that different from one Linux distribution to 
another...

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] dt 3.2.1 freezes on every import, probably user error; how to correct?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 30 novembre 2020 19:27:18 CET tony Hamilton wrote:
> Really confused; what is this? Where is this text window? In
> Libre-Office? Or another text editor? Which one? I am looking for a text
> window which contains this text or do I enter this text? What does 'not
> darktable-cli do? What is the meaning of the text string
>  (It seems to be syntactically incorrect: what
> entity is 'less than 'path' ? is 'path' both greater than and less than
> 'to' at the same time? In data terms, what are the values of these
> variables? Where do I find them ?). if I enter this text, does it need
> to be saved in a specific format or a specific location? Will some other
> application process this text ? If so, which one? How does it relate to
> darktable ?
Suggestion: get some basic information about Linux and its manpages.
That should help you understand notations like  (though you 
seem to have realised the <...> notation represents a variable, while trying 
to hide that...)

I find your posts more and more aggressive, and less and less informed about 
very basic things concerning your chosen operating system (chosen, as it's 
really hard to get a pre-installed Linux system, let alone get it by 
accident).

If by any chance Linux was forced on you by one of your children, ask them to 
explain the basics?

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Can't go into "darkroom" mode only for certain files?

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 1 décembre 2020 04:33:07 CET Nick Rahl wrote:
> I can open and edit images, for the most part, just fine.
> 
> But there are certain "film rolls"/folders, where I can open them in
> "lighttable" mode fine, but when I double click to edit it, it goes into
> darkroom mode, and the main editing area is gray and says "loading image
> DSC_0961.NEF ... " forever. It never loads.
> 
> Reboot and closing and reopening doesn't solve the issue. I can go into
> lighttable and switch film rolls and edit those fine. But at the moment,
> there are two rolls that I can't edit because it is "loading" the image
> forever when I try to.
> 
> v 3.0.2 on Mint 19.3
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
It seems the question has been answered here:
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/cant-edit-certain-images/21559

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Exporting to AVIF format

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 6 décembre 2020 12:58:19 CET Alejandro Criado-Pérez wrote:
> Hello darktable users!
> 
> Can anybody please confirm if they can or can't export any image to the
> new and coolest AVIF format?
> 
> I'm trying to debug an issue with darktable exporting images to AVIF. I
> reported the issue #7177
>  in github.
> 
> If you don't see the AVIF format in the list of file types to export
> then its because you don't have libavif installed in your system. That's
> ok. But if you do see it on the list, does darktable produce an error
> when you try to do it?
> 
> Please let me know what version of libavif and darktable you are using,
> both if it work or if it doesn't work for you.
> 
> For me, it fails with libavif 0.8.3 and darktable master branch.
> 
> Hopefully this way we can find the problem.
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Alejandro Criado-Pérez
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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Looking at the issue you reported, it seems that the problem is in the Exiv2 
library. 

Looking a bit further, especially towards Exiv2, it looks as if Avif support 
there is on hold until they sort out some patent-related issues (due to the 
similarities between HEIF and Avif). 

So the problems you are seeing might just be due to Exiv2 not reading/writing 
the format, so not really a darktable issue. As Exiv2 is used to add the 
metadata to the converted file, *in principle* dt should be able to write an 
AVIF file as long as no metadata have to be added.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Geeqie RAW preview as starting point for DT

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 13 décembre 2020 13:24:34 CET cimatosa wrote:
> Dear DT community,
> 
> 
> I have been using DT for quite a while now and I'm very happy with rich
> features and resulting images.
> 
> However, since my workflow includes preselecting my RAW files using
> Geeqie I'm always a bit frustrated when I load my images into DT after
> having seen the "rather well pleasing" preview of the RAW data in
> Geeqie. I takes quite some effort to get close to the Geeqie results
> using DT, so I have not managed yet to create a suitable style that
> would work a default / starting point for further processing.
> 
> So here is my question, does anyone know or has experiences on how to
> convince DT to give me the same results as Geeqie?

TL;DR: not possible...

To elaborate a bit: Geeqie is presented as an image viewer, with some very 
basic "editing" capabilities, like rotating the image over a multiple of 90°.
That means that it doesn't display raw data, but uses the embedded, camera-
generated, jpeg included in the raw file for preview purposes (which is 
usually much smaller than the raw file). So what you are looking at is not 
"Geeqie results" but "camera results". 
If you want that, just shoot jpeg. There are a lot of photographers (including 
professionals) who do just that, especially when they have to deal with a lot 
of shots and a short deadline.

Now, in dt, the basecurve is supposed to mimic the in-camera raw processing. 
This is never perfect (if only because it's too simple), and won't take into 
account scene modes or personal settings on the camera that influence its jpg 
generation. But it's about the closest you can hope to get to the in-camera 
rendering without a lot of work on your part. And in that case, why stick to 
the camera rendering?



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Re: [darktable-user] Color calibration: white balance disabling not enough

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 26 décembre 2020 17:42:18 CET Michael Below wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am playing with the new version (very nice!), and specifically with
> the move from whitebalance to color correction: I noted that it is not
> enough to disable whitebalance module. The color correction module will
> continue to show an error message (warning triangle) for "previously
> whitebalanced" images, saying that the white balance module is using
> the camera reference point. I have not yet found out how to get rid of
> the warning: Disabling the whitebalance module is not enough. once it
> helped to also reset the settings of the whitebalance module (and turn
> it back off again), but with other images I am turning around in
> circles.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this? What is the proper workflow to move from
> whitebalance to color correction?
> 
> The color correction results look very nice, once I get there...
> 
> Cheers
> Michael
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

The idea is to use the white balance module set to camera reference (the 
right-most button in the WB module does that). Then use the color calibration 
module to set the "correct" illuminant.

There is a problem in that a whitebalance has to be set before demosaicing 
(which is where the original WB module works), but the color calibration 
module needs to work on demosaiced data. So by setting the WB module to 
"camera default" we can do our demosaicing and a known starting point for the 
color calibration module.

See 
https://discuss.pixls.us/t/introducing-color-calibration-module-formerly-known-as-channel-mixer-rgb/21227
 for all the gritty details, and for a 
description of the module from the author.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] DT 3.4 no longer has zone system module (gone!)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 5 janvier 2021 00:37:09 CET Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Tanya Riseman  [01-04-21 18:20]:
> > You are supposed to use the tone equalizer module instead of the zone
> > system module now. According to the manual, zone system is deprecated.
> > 
> > This really disappoints me.
> > 
> > The zone system is pretty easy for beginners to pick up. (I've only used
> > DT
> > since August.) The 2D image of the different zones in the picture is
> > really
> > handy and I don't think it appears in any other modules.
> > 
> > The tone equalizer is much harder to get up to speed with. It lacks a 2D
> > zone image. It only has crosshairs that correspond to a hard to understand
> > contrast mask, not the zone. Usually(?) in the dark regions, changes to
> > the
> > EV levels don't have any effect if you are outside of the mask's range of
> > levels. Even if you optimize the mask. Very frustrating. You can kinda
> > match the zone system results sometimes but after a much longer time of
> > fiddling. It just is not a more generalized substitute for the zone
> > system.
> > They behave differently.
> > 
> > I'd appreciate it if the developers restored the zone system.
> 
> color zones is still there, just hidden by default
> open an image in darkroom and just below the histogram is an input box
> where you can search for modules by name and maybe description.  type
> "zone" and see what you get.
> 
> ps: rtfm, it will help you and will describe the change to tone equalizer
> and how to get color zones back.
> 
> don't be down on the developers because you haven't read the very fine
> manual.

color zones != zone system

The "zone system" module is now deprecated, and planned to be removed for new 
edits soon (it will stay in the code for existing edits, so there's no urgent 
need to redo those).

Personally, I find the "tone equaliser" module at least as easy to use, once 
you get a bit familiar with the masking part. The view of the different zones/
tonalities is more precise, imho.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] folder levels

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 5 janvier 2021 15:54:13 CET Willy Williams wrote:
> Interesting!  On my machines, I still can get to the setting for folder
> levels under [Preferences / lighttable / number of folders to show in
> lists] where it is set to 3.
> 
> 
> Yet, if I look in darktablerc, I see .  It appears that Preferences
> overrides darktablerc.  True or false?
(...)
That should indeed be the case:
your *local* darktablerc (see below) is read on startup, and the values there 
are used and shown in the Preferences dialog. Changes made through the 
Preferences dialog are written back to your local darktablerc (on exiting 
darktable(?)). 

Some changes can only be applied on start-up, so those require a restart to be 
visible. But they are still stored internally and written back to darktablerc.

But keep in mind that there are *two* versions of darktablerc:
- a global one, used on first start, and containing default values. Users 
normally cannot write to this file.
- a local one, written when you exit darktable and used on subsequent runs. So 
in effect, the local darktablerc overrules the global darktablerc.

So the value in the *global* darktablerc can be different from what you see in 
the Preferences dialog...



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Re: [darktable-user] DT 3.4 no longer has zone system module (gone!)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 13 janvier 2021 01:40:12 CET Bill Martz wrote:
> I am not receiving all emails, just some. I didn't receive any that gave
> information about the preset, only emails that indicated there was one.
> Would someone fill me in?
Perhaps check spam folders, I regularly find some mails from this list there 
(not sure why, perhaps too many urls/phone numbers?)

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Where are Collections stored?

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 16 janvier 2021 07:01:55 CET Bruce Williams wrote:
> Hi all!
> I THOUGHT I'd found a limit to the number of Collections that could be
> saved.
> But it looks more and more like wherever my Collections are stored,
> darktable can no longer write/execute on that location, as not only can I
> not store any NEW Collection, I can't delete an existing one either.
> I'm on Linux MInt 20 and dt 3.4.0+88~g0e4ecc1fa-dirty.
> I have library, keyboardrc and .db files located in .cache in my user
> filesystem area.

That's ...surprising, for me at least: afaik, a *cache* can be invalidated at 
any moment, and it should be possible to clear it w/o causing problems.

For me (on openSUSe Leap 15.2), the files you mention are stored under 
~/.config/darktable

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] How to switch back to the the standard screen?

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 17 janvier 2021 11:47:02 CET Achim Dittrich wrote:
> Dear darktable users,
>  
> I have somehow gotten into a view where I don't find a way to switch back to
> the standard 3 column screen (s. attached image). I uninstalled and re -
> installed darktable but still I'm locked up in that view. 

Try clicking on the small triangles left and right of the window (about mid-
height)

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Usage and modifying description/title metadata fields

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 18 janvier 2021 04:43:13 CET Niranjan Rao wrote:
> Ubuntu 20.04, darktable 2.4.1
> 
> 
> Apologies if this sounds really dumb question, but I am trying to figure
> out what's the usage of fields like description/title. I could not
> figure out a way to edit these fields from darkroom view, but lightroom
> allows me to set the values.
> 
> 
> If you set title and/or description, are there any other tools - may be
> like web browser or file explorer like tools that can show the
> information on mouse hover or something. I think it will really neat if
> functionality already exists.
> 
> At least on Ubuntu, I did not see title/description displayed in default
> image viewer or image properties even though it shows other information.
> 
For raw files (and perhaps other formats as well), dt doesn't write to the 
original image file, and I don't think image viewers bother with sidecar 
files. So your image viewer doesn't get to see the title and description (nor 
tags/keywords you added!)

You get the description and title fields written in exported files (if you 
didn't change that), and then your image viewer should pick them up.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Best way to tag image from command line?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 18 janvier 2021 04:45:04 CET Niranjan Rao wrote:
> Thank you, but I was thinking darktable allowing to select a list of
> images based on SQL.
> 
Perhaps look up "SQL injection"? 

Apart from that, SQL isn't all that simple to use, a few of the concepts are 
not self-evident. 



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Re: [darktable-user] Still no GUI module order possible?

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 17 février 2021 17:39:23 CET Maurizio Paglia wrote:
> First of all I desire to point out it was not my intention to be rude or
> blame nobody.
> Nevertheless the reply " that's quite easy - because none of those who want
> this feature become
> active, fork the code and simply implement the stuff ... " is really
> impolite.
> I cannot write C and cannot start learning C at 52 only to send a pull
> request that will be ignored...

Keep in mind that that particular reply was given *after* OP's question was 
answered with an explanation why changing the current interface was not a good 
idea (according to devs and several users).
And *after* a few others jumped in claiming that it (or something similar) 
should be implemented because "intuitive interface". 

I got the impression they thought that it couldn't be all that difficult to 
do... So it was proposed they do the work (after about 70 messages in the 
thread).


Oh, and while you claimed you were not asking to change the dt GUI, in 
practice what you are asking *is a change in the interface*. Currently, 
changing the module order has a well-defined effect: it changes the pipeline 
order *to reflect the module order in the interface*. And changing that link 
between user action and effect is a change in the interface (and a rather 
important one).

"The interface" is not just how things look on the screen, it's also how 
interacting with it influences the program's behaviour and results.





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Re: [darktable-user] Still no GUI module order possible?

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 18 février 2021 09:54:21 CET Andreas Herold wrote:
(...)
> In my opinion, the user needs to have a model of the functionality in his
> mind. The current discussion is in my opinion an indicator, that DT has
> here some room for improvement.
Darktable, or its users? 

The pixel pipe and its link to the shown module order is well described in the 
manual (https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/darkroom/), but you have to 
read a bit more than just the sections on how the interface looks.

All darktable can do is providing the relevant information in an accessible 
way. It is up to the *user* to look for and use that information. So just 
downloading and installing the program is not enough. 

Same as with any piece of somewhat advanced equipment, the manual is an 
essential part of the package, and should at least be skimmed on first use of 
the package. Assuming a new tool works "just like the one I'm used to" is 
likely to provide unpleasant surprises...

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Not seeing replies to my posts

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 24 février 2021 00:29:41 CET Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Jean-Luc CECCOLI  [02-23-21 18:16]:
(...)
> > Patrick, I do not use any email client, but my isp's web interface - which
> > is not configurable at all. I only can choose to use html or plain text,
> > no automatic cc nor reply-to nor whatsoever. If I choose html, then each
> > CR is seen by others like 2 CR - a blank line between each line - and
> > misquoting appears on replying. Pretty unreadable. If I choose plain
> > text, then I may have problems with posts from people using such
> > interface - double CR and misquoting, that means one cannot see who wrote
> > what. Attempted that when using the same tool there is no problem, then
> > we can assume the problem is araised between the two parts.
> I would stongly consider another email client.
> fwiw: your current email client is wanadoo.fr's web interface.
> and you can use another email client.

Confirmed, that's exactly what I'm doing:
ISP is wanadoo, I use KMail as mail client (which does reply to the list). 
POP3 (IMAP possible afaik) and SMTP, identifier and pass same as for the web 
interface.

Two caveats:
- (By default?) this only recovers the inbox, I haven't bothered to see 
whether I could also recover the "indésirables", and part of the mailing list 
messages ends up there (not checked if it's linked to the originating email 
address or domain)
- Sending can be a bit slow, SMTP servers seem a bit overloaded. But that 
might just be a matter of visibility (you probably won't see the delays on web 
mail)

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Re: latest update (for Dave Stephens)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 3 mars 2021 22:10:33 CET KOVÁCS István wrote:
> Dear Dave,
> 
> Please stop spamming the list and asking the question over and over
> again, hijacking discussion threads.
> The reason you're not getting a reply is because you do not provide
> any details. I don't think anyone here knows what 'enclosed unchecked
> boxes' you're referring to.
> 
> Are you on Windows? Are you facing an installation issue? If on
> Windows, and it's warning you about the download potentially
> containing malware, stop worrying, the alert if false.
> 
> We're here to help, but please describe your problem clearly. If you
> need to share screenshots, please don't send them to the list; upload
> them somewhere, and share a link. And please keep the discussion on
> the list, don't mail any of us directly, unless prompted.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kofa

To me that series of posts smelled like a publicity for a program version for 
phones... (also given the domain name for the originating email)




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Re: [darktable-user] Can timestamp information in xmp files be altered with external script?

[Remco Viëtor]

On vendredi 5 mars 2021 10:30:11 CET Jean-Pierre Verrue wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The timestamps were created precisely to record all darktable's input/output
> operations. It is therefore normal that the export timestamp is updated
> with each export.
> 
> Resetting it to -1 would cause you to irretrievably lose the information.
> Moreover, as Patrick says in his previous answer, this modification of the
> xmp file should be saved in the DB, otherwise it will be overwritten during
> a later export operation.
> 
> The fact that a checksum calculation is different after an export is quite
> normal since it reflects the fact that "something happened" to this file.
> The content of this file is entirely governed by darktable and other photo
> software. It is therefore unwise to rely on it for other uses.

Also, if you use a checksum on the whole file for version control, you 
indicate that you want to see all changes to the file. If you only want to 
follow part of the information, you'd have to limit your checksum for version 
control to that part of the info...

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] changing directory

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 1 avril 2021 11:32:54 CEST Postmaster wrote:
> >> cd ~/...photo-directory-1; darktable --init
> >> cd ~/...photo-directory-2; darktable --init
> > 
> > can you tell me where & how to use --init ? seems logical, but no --init
> > here :(
> 
> so i presume that this feature no longer exists in the current
> version(s) of darktable.
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Afaik, such a feature has never existed in darktable, it is a proposal...

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] News about darktable 3.6

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 1 avril 2021 17:03:27 CEST Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Apr 2021 16:49:05 +0200
> 
> Pascal Obry  wrote:
> > Some views have also been removed like Map, Tethering, Slideshow to
> > keep the most important ones. 
> 
> Does this also means that the supporting code for tethering has been
> removed?
> If not, how do you then access tethering mode?
Is the date of the original post important in any way?

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Newbie

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 8 avril 2021 11:39:48 CEST Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:26:17 +0800
> 
> Leong KT  wrote:
> > I am thinking of changing over to Darktable. Does it support X100V
> > raw files? Also, it seems that installing Darktable seems dauntingly
> > complicated. Is there a simple workaround?
> 
> 'apt install darktable' seems mighty simple to me?

Isn't "apt" a *linux* package manager? and lightroom a *windows/macOS* 
program?

But what seems so "dauntingly complicated"? Basically, it's "run the 
installer"... It might help if we have some details about operating system and 
specific problems

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 17 avril 2021 09:10:56 CEST Postmaster wrote:
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

OK, I see where the problem is...





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Re: [darktable-user] lighttable displayed images question

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 26 avril 2021 17:14:40 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> when I open dt as:
>   darktable --library :memory: /paka/xhome/Pictures/2021/*
> 
> and /paka/xhome/Pictures/2021/* contains 250+ images in
> 
> /paka/xhome/Pictures/2021/
(...)
> why not all of the imported images?
> 
> and substitutng
>   /paka/xhome/Pictures/2021*
>   for
>   /paka/xhome/Pictures/2021/*
> displays *no* images
> 
> confused ???
> 
> darktable-3.5.0~git1893.57ae83ee8d
> on openSUSE Tumbleweed

Have you tried setting the option "recursive directory traversal..." in import 
settings? 

 I'm not quite sure what darktable actually "sees" with the first command you 
gave, where the wildcard is interpreted by the shell.

The result with your second command seems logical, if there are no images in 
/paka/xhome/Pictures/2021/. Recursive traversal should solve that.

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] lighttable displayed images question

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 26 avril 2021 17:49:39 CEST Patrick Shanahan wrote:
(...)
> > Have you tried setting the option "recursive directory traversal..." in
> > import settings?
> 
> yes, it *is* set and was set to 5 levels but I do not find that parameter
> now.  :(
> 
> darktablerc shows:  show_folder_levels=5
> 
this line in darktablerc perhaps:
ui_last/import_recursive=FALSE

Remco




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Re: Presets setting too many parameters, sometimes (was: [darktable-user] Activating the pipeline)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 5 mai 2021 19:06:33 CEST Jean-Luc CECCOLI wrote:
> > Message du 05/05/21 13:31
> > De : "Patrick Shanahan"
> > 
> > A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : Re: Presets setting too many parameters, sometimes (was:
> > [darktable-user] Activating the pipeline)> 
> > * Michael Staats  [05-05-21 01:33]:
> > > Hi Patrick
> > > 
> > > On 04/05/2021 17:01, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > > * Michael Staats  [05-04-21 08:51]:
> > > >> Hi
> > > >> FYI: Just opened feature request #8861
> > > >> 
> > > >> "Smart Presets": More flexible presets: only set some parameters of a
> > > >> module
> > > > 
> > > > can you not do that already by setting the scope or just "%" which
> > > > matches
> > > > everything?
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure what you mean by "setting the scope". If you are talking
> > > about the matching criteria, where you can set "%" to match everything:
> > > Well, this can be used to decide if a preset will be applied, or not.
> > > But not which parameter of the module is affected, it's always all
> > > parameters, with values that were active when the preset was created.
> > > Which is fine for many cases, but not for all.
> > > 
> > > Ok, coming back to my use-case: For my Sigma 17-70, I could of course
> > > create, say, 10 presets in lens correction, each for a different focal
> > > length, and match this in the matching criteria. But I'm afraid, this is
> > > a bit too tedious.
> > 
> > so what you desire is possible but not "easy" ...
> 
> I think that is not possible at all, unless one creates a preset for each
> focal length - e.g., for a 17-70, it would need 54 presets at least. And
> 131 for a 70-200 ! ouch ! I think certain values ought to be flexible,
> depending on, for instance, the focal length. I do not mean I want this,
> though. I know it may be very difficult to implement, if not impossible, as
> I read such requessts in threads for other photo software.
If the problem is lens recognition, perhaps using the ".exiv2" configuration 
file might help to link ambiguous lens IDs to the lens you actually own.
(the ".exiv2" file in your home directory is for Linux, no idea if there's a 
windows equivalent, nor how to use it)

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Exporting edited image

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 17 juillet 2021 04:00:13 CEST 01myphotos01 wrote:
> HiI worked further on an edited image and exported it. The re-edited image
> does not get saved and shows as a black image only. It never happened so in
> 3.4 . Why can't I save, if someone could guide please. Thanks NeilSent from
> my Galaxy

Which dt version do you use? And which OS/version?

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] How to validate ?

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 10 octobre 2021 09:22:43 CEST Pierre Couderc wrote:
> Beginner question :
> 
> I go in darkroom, and crop module.
> 
> My image is fine :  how do I validate ?
> 
> I see no button, and if I turn back in lighttable image is not croped...
> 
> Thanks for help.
> 
> PC

There is no explicit validation, crop should be applied when you leave the 
module, provided it is actvated (small icon right of the module should be 
highlighted in history)

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] How to validate ?

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 11 octobre 2021 07:44:58 CEST Pierre Couderc wrote:
(...)
> 
> Thank you all.
> 
> I have made many trials, but still does not success in "crop and rotate".
> 
> I am obliged to open another module such as "crop" and then switch to
> lighttable...

Using "crop" instead of "crop and rotate" is also recommended at the moment. 
One advantage is that "crop" is placed after the retouch module, so you can 
e.g. heal spots using a source outside the cropped area.

Of course, if you have to rotate the image as well, or for some kinds of 
perspective correction, you still need "crop and rotate". But even in those 
cases I prefer to use the "crop" module for actual cropping.



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Re: [darktable-user] problem installing darktable

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 16 octobre 2021 02:56:33 CEST Terry Pinfold wrote:
> Hi Andrew, for clarity I still need to know if this current post is top or
> bottom posting. Sorry for such a basic question, but I am unsure what I can
> do differently if you tell me this is still a top post.
I'd say this is a troll...

Why? top posting and bottom posting is* relative to quoted content* ...



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Re: [darktable-user] Filmic .. Auto-Tune

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 1 décembre 2021 00:04:57 CET David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> dt .. 3.7.0+1592~g30e678a45e Arch/Manjaro/XFCE
> 
> I am finding that when I initially use the Filmic-RGB auto -tune
> function that my black slider is almost always pushed to the extreme
> left hand side while the white slider is positioned fairly correctly.
> 
> This does not appear to be due to poor exposure. Even if I adjust the
> exposure  even more accurately the slider still goes hard to the left.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Noise in the image?




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Re: [darktable-user] Filmic .. Auto-Tune

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 5 décembre 2021 09:21:12 CET Terry Pinfold wrote:
> We are discouraged from changing the carefully thought out order of the
> modules. I would really appreciate some feedback on if there are any
> perceived issues with changing the order of the following modules.  

There can be issues with moving a module to the other side of filmic, see 
below

> I would
> like to put the contrast equalizer after filmic for the reasons identified
> by David at the start of this thread. I would also like to move the RGB
> levels and RGB curves modules after filmic since I often want to use these
> for contrast or lighting adjustments after filmic. I also do not understand
> why tone equalizer is placed before filmic, 

The modules you mention are all supposed to work in unbound linear scene-
referred mode. That means that the pixel values are linear with the light 
energy (if you multiply the energy by 2, you multiply the pixel value by 2). 
And the pixel values are not restricted to the interval 0.0 .. 1.0. So larger 
corrections that push pixel values beyond 1.0 are not a problem.
You may have to adjust the settings in filmic to get a proper mapping, but 
there will be no loss of information or detail.

Filmic transforms the linear scene-referred mode to display mode. That means 
that after filmic, the pixel values are proportional to the log of the light 
energy (bluntly said, if you multiply the light energy by 2, you increase the 
pixel value by 1). In addition, filmic performs a tone mapping to pull the 
pixel values back into the display range of 0..1 (for current LDR displays, 
not sure what's going to happen for HDR displays)

That means that using the modules meant for linear scene-referred images after 
filmic can cause colour shifts and other strange behaviour, especially when 
they  push pixel values outside the 0..1 range, where you get hard clipping, 
i.e. loss of information and detail.
Also a given correction will look different between light and dark regions.

> but I blindly trust that
> Aurelein is responsible for this order and he has the wisdom to know where
> to place his modules. I have heard him say that some modules are placed in
> the wrong order, but I don't know which ones. Advice would be appreciated.

The LUT module is a bit problematic, as it uses external files that can assume 
either scene space (i.e. the LUT has to go before filmic) or display space (in 
which case the LUT has to come after filmic). So for that module, there isn't 
one correct place in the pipeline.

Apart from that one module, I don't know about modules being in the wrong 
order. Only that in *some* cases, moving a module to a different place gave a 
better result. 



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Re: [darktable-user] Filmic .. Auto-Tune

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 5 décembre 2021 22:58:44 CET Terry Pinfold wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. So is it your opinion that if I adjust the image in
> filmic to get the 'starting' look that pleases me and then use the RGB
> curves module to further tweak the image you see no problems in that within
> the pipeline it comes before filmic but in my workflow it comes after? I
> really do appreciate the feedback because I would always adjust filmic
> before RGB curves in the workflow. I will also read the manual sections to
> understand the design of the RGB curves module.

So do I. So if I know I'm going to do things that would require re-adjustment 
of filmic, I tend to leave a bit of wiggle room in filmic (esp. the white 
point about 1 EV or so higher than strictly necessary). 

On a first pass, I mostly do "technical" corrections: exposure, white balance, 
lens and perspective corrections, and cropping. This includes a first 
adjustment of filmic. If I want to do more creative editing, I tend to leave 
at least 1-2 EV headroom in filmic (depending on what I plan to do).
Then, after the creative editing is done, I do a final adjustment in filmic.

That's something I try to plan for early on, not always easy, but it makes the 
work  a lot easier (basically, try to previsualise where you want to go with 
the image).



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Re: [darktable-user] ICC profiles / SoftProof / Export

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 9 décembre 2021 14:21:22 CET KueWW wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've downloaded ICC profiles from a printing laboratory.
> I've placed them in the ".config/darktable/color/out" and dt detects
> them. Everything's fine so far.
> 
> Selecting the profile to SoftProof works and the result is shown well, I
> think.
> 
> Even when I select the ICC profile to export the image using this
> profile dt says "the profile is replaced bay sRGB because the selected
> ICC profile is not supported". There are just some profiles this message
> appears. Some others seems to work fine.
> 
> My question are:
> Why does the SoftProof preview seems to work and the export don't?
> What can I do to check / solve this issue?
Those ICC profiles you downloaded are "device profiles", not "colour spaces" 
(yes, very confusing that they look the same...).

Device profiles are specific to a device, and describe the differences between 
the colours a device actually shows, and those it is supposed to show 
according to the colour space it uses. For that reason, you never (need to) 
apply them on export. But when using such a profile in "soft proof" mode, you 
can check if the colours in your image fit within what the device can 
represent. 

In your case, softproof will show if the print more or less corresponds to 
what you expect. As paper and screen are completely different media, the 
correspondence will always be only approximate (for starters, your screen 
emits light, often too much, and paper only reflects light).

On export, you select a "colour space", which describes what observed colour a 
given RGB triplet (for sRGB) represents (under defined lighting conditions). 
And again, device profiles are not colour spaces, so cannot be used there.




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Re: [darktable-user] Fresh git install.

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 18 décembre 2021 07:05:59 CET David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> Hi Patrick ... thanks for that, hopefully somebody with Manjaro may have
> an idea.
> 
Not using Manjaro, but perhaps you can check if the required header files are 
present under /usr/include. Under OpenSUse they are under /usr/include/OpenEXR
and installed from package openexr-devel



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Re: [darktable-user] Broken images after upgrade to 3.8.0

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 4 janvier 2022 18:33:36 CET Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 18:13:13 +0100 (CET)
> 
> Jean-Luc CECCOLI  wrote:
> > Many softwares that can open NEF files, XNview for instance, free and
> > easy to use.
> 
> What you see is the embedded jpeg file. Since you have darktable
> installed you will also have exiftool installed so a quick and dirty
> solution: exiftool -b -JpgFromRaw -w .jpg -ext NEF some.nef > some.jpg

Or use it to check for the image size and orientation first?
It might be useful to have a look at the rawspeed database as well 
(/usr/share/darktable/rawspeed/cameras.xml for me). Although if you start 
messing with that file, I'm not responsible for any results.




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Re: [darktable-user] Imported images are always way too dark

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 12 janvier 2022 12:08:08 CET Frank J. wrote:
> Am 10.01.22 um 22:12 schrieb bwh vanBeest:
> > Hi,
> > When I import a  series of images straight from the camera (Nikon
> > D850, Nikon nef format) in Darktable (scene-referred workflow), the
> > images invariably show up as way too dark, as if they are
> > underexposed. The histogram shows a big unexposed part on the
> > highlights. I am pretty sure though that when I took the pictures the
> > exposure is about right (according to the camera histogram). The
> > camera-generated jpg is also ok.
> > What can be the cause of this and what can I do about it?
> > 
> > Kind Regards,
> > Bertwim
> 
> Same effect here.
> 
> I use Olympus-cameras, RAW only, correction +/- 0 EV in the Camera.
> 
> After importing in DT the default in module "exposure" is "+0.5 EV" but
> this is too dark for nearly all pictures.
> 
> I need to use a correction between +1.5 and +2.5 EV for the best look.
> 
> This is not new in DT 3.8 but in 3.6 (or 3.4?) with the change to
> scene-referred workflow.
> 
> I never compared with camera JPG.
> 
> Frank
You have two effects here: one is the exposure of the middle gray parts of 
your image (the one that "exposure" works on), the other is the tone curve 
applied by the camera. That tonecurve can add quite a bit of midtone contrast, 
limiting the room available for shadows and highlights, and also increase the 
apparent exposure a bit (to "protect" the shadows). That tone curve is 
replaced by filmic, which tends to be softer/more delicate with the shadows 
and the highlights.

The correction you need to apply in exposure seems to depend on the camera 
brand, I find I need to add about 1-1.5 EV for my Sony.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] DT can't access files on external hdd with special software

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 12 janvier 2022 14:17:47 CET Hieke van Hoogdalem wrote:
(...)
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t download the latest version yet. Will it work on M1 Macs? The
> installation notes say that Intel is required – can that be it? I can
> hardly believe but I just needed to ask.
> 

Well, better believe it. Darktable is developed by unpaid volunteers, who work 
on what they want to work on *within the possibilities of available hardware*.

In order to get dt to work on M1 Macs, a developer has to have access to one 
of those machines, and be willing to make the effort to port dt to it. Apple 
is particularly unpleasant for this, as programs need to be signed and 
notarised by Apple, which requires at least one of the developers to register 
for 100$/year. (Strictly speaking, you can get an unsigned application to 
work, but it's not fun for the end user...)

Remco



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Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Timestamp oddity

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 19 janvier 2022 23:56:49 CET Bruce Williams wrote:
> OK, I think I understand what you said Nick. :)
> I also tried some of those ls switches on my own memory card and was able
> to replicate your results. Of course, mine are all +11, not -5, but that's
> to be expected.
> But where does that leave us?
> Is this a dt issue that the devs can fix?
> Or is it a linux issue?
That will depend on whether the camera stores the time zone somewhere in the 
metadata when it writes "local time" there. The Exif standard has fields for 
storing time offsets (time zone info) since 2016 or so, but that's not 
necessarily implemented even in newer cameras. Older cameras *can't* use such 
fields (other than in the makernote section).

As said earlier, any program reading times from the metadata without time zone 
info will have to make an assumption, either use the "computer time zone" or 
UTC. And there is no way to know which is correct, so not a Linux issue.

And how would you handle import of e.g. older images taken on a trip abroad, 
in a completely different timezone?

I think the only solution for now would be to set your camera to UTC (which 
has disadvantages as well).
The dt devs could perhaps add an option to specify a timezone on import, but I 
have no idea how complicated that would be, nor what other implications that 
would have.



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Re: Fwd: Fwd: [darktable-user] Timestamp oddity

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 20 janvier 2022 14:41:47 CET Bernhard wrote:
> Remco Viëtor schrieb am 20.01.22 um 14:13:
> > I think the only solution for now would be to set your camera to UTC
> > (which
> > has disadvantages as well).
> 
> That's what I am doing for years now.
> Imagine you are travelling along the border Spain/Portugal or
> Greece/Macedonia/Albania and go back and forth - ok, 2 time zones. But if
> you do that in spring or autumn in the time of switch from standard time to
> daylight saving time or back you end up with total mess.
Oh, I agree that that's getting very messy. But as long as the camera metadata 
don't retain time zone information, every solution I can think of will be 
messy. 

Using UTC has at least the merit that it's a fairly neutral point, with no 
messing with DST and such. And if you ever need the local time, you can get 
the information needed for the correction. 

Needs differ of course, but I've rarely needed the exact time when an image 
was taken. Even when linking images to a GPS track, what I use are time 
differences (to get a correlation between the times recorded in the GPS track 
and the timestamps in the images). I don't keep my camera synchronised to any 
particular clock anyway (more like "set and forget"...).





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Re: [darktable-user] Timestamp oddity

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 22 janvier 2022 07:28:57 CET Top Rock Photography wrote:
> IF one's card is 32GB or less, it will not store time zone data, and that
> may cause problems. If one does not have local time being kept correctly
> by the OS, that may cause problems. If one's camera does not save local
> time correctly, that may cause problems.

Two different things going on here:
We have the file timestamps as handled by the different OSs. Those can change 
for different reasons, mostly access and file modification (but there's the 
"touch" command).

We also have metadata timestamps, generated by the camera. Most of these 
shouldn't change. And afaik, Exif metadata couldn't store timezone as a 
standard tag before 2016 (makernote is a different issue.

I'm getting a bit confused which of these groups of timestamps are being 
discussed here...

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Re: Files suddenly invisable and unimportable

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 23 janvier 2022 16:45:14 CET Hieke van Hoogdalem wrote:
> (...)

Could you at least remove the attached images when you reply? Twice the same 
image isn't adding anything to your post, just using up disk space and 
bandwidth.

(one image isn't much, but you are not the only one sending mail)



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Re: [darktable-user] Style with automatic selection

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 30 janvier 2022 04:39:37 CET Niranjan Rao wrote:
> On darktable 3.8.0
> 
> 
> Many modules have a dropper or equivalent to pickup the optimized
> values, examples are filmic and color calibration modules. Question is
> when I create style from this, will it use the actual value or for the
> new style it will treat as if dropper is clicked.
The style uses the values at the moment of the creation of the style, and 
won't use the dropper. 

That is something that you can easily test for yourself: create a style (with 
only the module you want to test) and apply it to another (ideally completely 
different) image, check the value after application of the style.



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Re: [darktable-user] Style with automatic selection

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 30 janvier 2022 08:38:07 CET Terry Pinfold wrote:
> I imagine it would be difficult for the developers to program DT so that a
> style will use the dropper with the new image. I can see advantages if it
> was practical to implement.

Well, there's also the little detail of the area or point used with the 
dropper: for e.g. exposure, the default is to use the whole image, but you can 
use a small area to determine auto-exposure. 

Of course, storing that in the style is possible, but (imo) useless for a 
style: you rarely want to re-use the exact same pixel locations. And if you 
have to select the area "by hand", the usefulness of a style disappears.




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Re: [darktable-user] Mask won't apply

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 7 février 2022 18:19:57 CET Hieke van Hoogdalem wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm trying to apply masks. The idea is simple, but I can't get it working. I
> searched for YouTube tutorials, but they don't cover my problem.
>(...)
> So here's the situation. I have this image that I had to brighten up quite a
> bit, but now a small part is overexposed. I want to use a mask to bring
> that down. But… when I draw a mask and change the exposure, it's being
> applied to the complete image. (Yes, I did create a new instance in the
> expose module before I started to create the mask.)
If you are using the scene-referred workflow, you could use the tone equaliser 
for this (or perhaps adjust filmic).

As for the mask, did you visualise it ("circle in square" icon next to "mask 
refinement) and did it show the area you wanted to mask (yellow) ?

> I found this tutorial that showed something about 'blend mode' and telling
> that 'normal' applies to the complete image. You have to chose 'mask'. But
> when I click on 'blend mode' I get a much larger list without the option
> 'mask'.
I haven't seen a "mask" option in blendmode ever (that is, the last few 
years). I found that I always have to check the date on any kind of tutorial, 
as changes are rather fast (not only for darktable) .
> 
> What can I do to make this work?
First we have to know what went wrong...
Keep in mind that in your case, masking and reducing exposition can lead to  
strange tone transitions at the edges. That's why I suggested tone equaliser 
or filmic adjustments instead of masking.




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Re: [darktable-user] Tokina lens not detected

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 7 février 2022 18:29:08 CET Ludger Bolmerg wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am on DT 3.8.0 on FreeBSD with lensfun 0.3.95. Although this may not
> be a DT issue I would appreciate any hint how to solve my problem.
> DT does not recognize my Tokina 11-20mm F2.8 IF DX lens and only shows
> "lens 139" instead. I double-checked the lensfun database and found an
> entry for this lens.  I also ran lensfun-update-data to upddate the
> lensfun database.
As you are using a third-party lens, the information available to lensfun 
might cover several lenses. As your lens is in the database, you can use the 
drop-down menu in the lens correction module to manually select the lens, or 
create a .exiv2 file in your home directory linking the lens ID to the lens 
(look on the web for details on how to do that)



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Re: ****SPAM(2.9)**** Re: ****SPAM(2.9)**** Re: [darktable-user] Mask won't apply

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 8 février 2022 21:41:07 CET Terry Pinfold wrote:
(removed about *2000* lines... RV)
> --Hi Hieke,
>I am posting my reply again from my gmail server rather than my
> University server. I apologise that I can not control if my post appears at
> the top or bottom of the list. The server does whatever the server wants to
> do.  I have also tried to attach a screenshot for clarity.

That's... not true in my experience: the editor may put the cursor at the 
bottom or the top of the quoted text, but they all allow you to move that 
cursor. 

But in either case, that's no reason to leave *over a 1000 lines* of 
irrelevant material, including signatures. Not all Terry's fault in this 
case...

> With respect I say that you seem confused about working with masks. I hope
> the following explanation may help you. Masks for me are the whole reason I
> love using DT compared to alternative programs.
> 
>  I often want to brighten or darken a section of an image, similar to how I
> would have dodged or burned in a traditional film darkroom. To achieve this
> with a digital image I make a new instance of exposure and adjust the
> exposure slider (sometimes I deliberately overdo the adjustment and will
> return to it later). This adjustment moves the whole of the image's
> exposure, but then I use the drawn mask option which looks like a crayon. I
> then often use the add path option to very roughly select the area I want
> to apply the effect to. The transition will be harsh and obvious. To fix
> this problem I then move the feather radius and blurring radius sliders
> about a third of the way to the right (amount may vary between images).
> This feathering and blurring then creates an invisible transition. I return
> to the exposure slider and fine turn the strength of the effect.

But that's after you have a basic mask selecting the area you want to modify. 
Problem here seems to be in that first step...

> Forget the blend mode options until you have mastered basic masking
> techniques.
I don't agree. You select a blend mode only *after* you have a mask that 
affects the area you want. 






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Re: [darktable-user] Mask won't apply

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 7 février 2022 20:01:16 CET Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Hieke van Hoogdalem  [02-07-22 13:13]:
> > ? I don't see new text __
> > 
> > Op 07-02-2022 18:51 heeft Patrick Shanahan  
geschreven:
> > * Hieke van Hoogdalem  [02-07-22 12:47]:
> > > Tnx but like I explained: Safari has huge problems. I can’t visit
> > > tutorials now. I can send and receive emails and use Whatsapp,
> > > luckily, but my browser refuses often. Like now.
> > > 
> > > Hartelijke groet,
> > > 
> > > Hieke van Hoogdalem
> > > 
> > > Van: Ludger Bolmerg 
> > > Datum: maandag 7 februari 2022 om 18:35
> > > Aan: 
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [darktable-user] Mask won't apply
> > > 
> > > Here you can find some excellent videos on masking in DT
> > > 
> > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxHYygok15XQ6bqu9FK-oCw/videos
> > > 
> > > On 2/7/22 18:19, Hieke van Hoogdalem wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi there,
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to apply masks. The idea is simple, but I can't get it
> > > working. I searched for YouTube tutorials, but they don't cover my
> > > problem. Also: my new M1 Macbook is malfunctioning and often stops
> > > internet all of a sudden without restarting properly. So my online
> > > resources are really small. Watching on my phone is an option, but
> > > the content doesn't cover my question, like I said.
> > > 
> > > So here's the situation. I have this image that I had to brighten up
> > > quite a bit, but now a small part is overexposed. I want to use a
> > > mask to bring that down. But… when I draw a mask and change the
> > > exposure, it's being applied to the complete image. (Yes, I did
> > > create a new instance in the expose module before I started to
> > > create the mask.)
> > > 
> > > I found this tutorial that showed something about 'blend mode' and
> > > telling that 'normal' applies to the complete image. You have to
> > > chose 'mask'. But when I click on 'blend mode' I get a much larger
> > > list without the option 'mask'.
> > > 
> > > What can I do to make this work?

> maybe you should actually read postings.
And ccould you please remove excessive signatures?




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Re: [darktable-user] 3.8.1 Under expose / black level warning error ? and FILMIC !

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 16 février 2022 21:42:41 CET Terry Pinfold wrote:
> I agree with Bruce that Filmic tries to reduce clipping of the blacks and
> the whites and this is the desired behaviour of filmic. It is really worth
> watching Aurélien's video on this. Even if some of it gets very technical
> it gives a good understanding of the what and why of filmic.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZVK2s68QA
> 
Also, a right-click on the over/underexposure button (the divided square) 
gives you the option to indicate what you consider under-exposure in EV below 
100% white. Useful if you know how the final image is going to be used 
(screen, print...). 



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Re: [darktable-user] Recovering xmp data from Exported jpg files

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 20 mars 2022 00:20:09 CET Andrew Greig wrote:
> I have been told that I can recover the xmp files from my exported (and
> correct) jpgs. So I need to discover the process. I imagine that I would
> need to load my jpg files into Darktable instead of my RAW files with
> their ovewritten xmp files. But what is next, please?

No, you should *not* inport your jpegs in darktable.

What you can do, is read the jpeg as a sidecar file:
select the required image in the lightroom, and in the right sidebar, the 
module "history stack" has an option "load sidecar file". Click that and 
select the jpeg you want to use the edit from.
Afaik, there's no easy way to automate that for a group of images.

And may I suggest regular backups of at least the database (ideally also of 
the images and sidecar files)?

Remco

P.S. your previous problems were with the *"export"* module, here you seem to 
have been using the "history stack module". Different modules, so the "append/
overwrite" switches are independent!



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Re: [darktable-user] Recovering xmp data from Exported jpg files

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 20 mars 2022 08:28:07 CET Andrew Greig wrote:
> On 20/3/22 17:59, Remco Viëtor wrote:
> > On dimanche 20 mars 2022 00:20:09 CET Andrew Greig wrote:
> >> I have been told that I can recover the xmp files from my exported (and
> >> correct) jpgs. So I need to discover the process. I imagine that I would
> >> need to load my jpg files into Darktable instead of my RAW files with
> >> their ovewritten xmp files. But what is next, please?
> > 
> > No, you should *not* inport your jpegs in darktable.
> > 
> > What you can do, is read the jpeg as a sidecar file:
> > select the required image in the lightroom, and in the right sidebar, the
> > module "history stack" has an option "load sidecar file". Click that and
> > select the jpeg you want to use the edit from.
> > Afaik, there's no easy way to automate that for a group of images.
> > 
> > And may I suggest regular backups of at least the database (ideally also
> > of
> > the images and sidecar files)?
> > 
> > Remco
> > 
> > P.S. your previous problems were with the *"export"* module, here you seem
> > to have been using the "history stack module". Different modules, so the
> > "append/ overwrite" switches are independent!
> > 
> > 
> > __
> > __ darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> Hi Remco,
> 
> I have done exactly as instructed, Light-table view with the selected
> file highlighted
> 
> In the History stack module I clicked on the Load Sidecar file and
> navigated to the Folder containing my full size edited jpgs, choice was
> xmp files or all files. Nothing showed with xmp files button but when I
> selected all files, I had access to the jpgs but selecting the correct
> jpg did nothing but return me to the Light-table view.  Is there any way
> to just extract the xmp data without Darktable running?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Andrew
Exiftool or Exiv2 can do that, as far as I know. But I've never tried to do 
that.

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 6 avril 2022 09:48:05 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
> If an image is removed from the dt catalog in the windows version, is
> the tag and metadata, which had been applied to the image, automatically
> lost? Or is it still available in some way such that if the image is
> added back into the catalog, that tag and metadata will be re-associated
> with the image?
> 
> As a secondary question, where is this data held, in the Windows version?
I'll let the devs answer the part about where data is stored and whether re-
associating old data with a new image is possible...

My question is: would it be *acceptable* to have a newly imported image get 
the data from an older, removed image? What criterium would you use to 
associate the new image with the old data? "name" isn't particularly reliable, 
"id" isn't possible (the 'new' images hasn't one yet...), so that would leave 
a checksum or fingerprint (relatively slow operation).

Also, I'd expect the tags and added metadata to be stored in the database, and 
remain there after just removing an image (just marked as deleted).
But: that database can be cleaned/purged/compressed every now and then. In 
that case, the data of removed images *is* deleted from the database. And that 
would make re-using existing data unpredictable...

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] The configuration and operation files of darktable V4.2

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 6 avril 2022 23:00:19 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
> On 06/04/2022 20:48, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > * tony Hamilton  [04-06-22 14:30]:
> >> Is this most useful of documents, by Jean-Pierre Verrue, dated
> >> 06/03/2019,
> >> the latest version for dt 3.8 ?
> > 
> > what document would that be?
> 
> The document with the name as given in the subject line of my original
> post. Easily found in Pixls,Us under the topic
> 
> 
>   "How to tell where darktable’s data folder is
>  
>  28>"
A link which could have been given in the original post, avoiding the need for 
many to waste time before they can even start answering the question...

It's simple, really: providing the information needed up front makes it easier 
to get an answer (and usually quicker). No protocol, just basic self-interest.
The more as those that are best placed to answer, are usually also the most 
solicited.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] Question regarding .svg watermarks comparing Windows and Ubuntu Linux

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 4 mai 2022 02:38:36 CEST Top Rock Photography wrote:
> The issue has nothing to do with Windows, nor fonts, and everything to do
> with darktable.
> I have only used Linux for the last umpteen years, and I had created some
> watermarks —in Linux— to use with darktable. Everything was fine until the
> 3.x branch. (may have been earlier).
> 
> All my text, which looks great in any other SVG viewer, and used to look
> great in darktable, now has overlapping characters. Converting the text to
> a curve does not work, since the majority of my text is dynamic. $Title,
> $Description, $date, $sequence-number, etc.
> 
> I should have made a bug report, but, due to the excellent team at
> darktable, I kept telling myself, “no problem, boss, dem soon fix dis.”
> 
> Well, I think that it is time for a bug report.

Then what's stopping you?

*We* cannot do it for you, as we don't know exactly what you did/didn't do, 
nor do we know your system.

And your mail certainly doesn't give enough info for a decent bug report...

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Exposure module, what happens here?

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 15 mai 2022 17:33:10 CEST Niranjan Rao wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> darkatable version 3.8.1, on Ubuntu 20.04
> 
> 
> I'm trying to understand what happens when I change the exposure module
> mode from automatic to manual. I've noticed it many times, if I change
> the mode from automatic to manual, application shows "working" message
> and does something to image. I've not changed any other settings of
> exposure module yet, just switching the mode.

If I switch the module from manual to automatic (or back) I see a small change 
in the applied exposure. It looks like the two sets of parameters are 
completely independant.
That means that the whole pipeline has to be recalculated, including possibly 
'expensive' modules like "diffuse or sharpen".

Remco





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Re: [darktable-user] Missing Flip

[Remco Viëtor]

On samedi 11 juin 2022 18:16:19 CEST David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> I notice that 'flip' is no longer available in the crop module. Will it
> reappear at some point?

Module "orientation", "transform" section, two buttons on the right...



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Re: [darktable-user] An issue with watermarks under Linux Mint

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 10 juillet 2022 18:12:19 CEST Willy Williams wrote:
(...)
> As a related note, I've not been able to locate where the darktable
> executables reside under Linux Mint.  They seem to be carefully
> concealed, despite the fact that darktable seems to be working properly,
> as do all the other applications that I've managed to load.
> 
> Willy Williams

If you can easily start dt from the command line, the executable must be in a 
directory specified in $PATH (try "echo $PATH" in a terminal).

Or your package manager might be able to tell you were the various files are 
installed.

Remco




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