[FairfieldLife] All sympathy to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1874818,00.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] All sympathy to Turq
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1874818,00.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: CC and sensitivity?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: It's hard to believe that a CC'd weiner isn't less sensitive than a non-CC'd... That's what a doc claimed in a documentary! ? In a penis documentary a doctor claimed that a circumcised penis is not less sensitive than a non-CC'd. If that's the case, I think if I'd be jewish (or almost any American?) I'd go grazy with that nearly continuous stimulation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? I know of one documented case in the movement. With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not more common among believers: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. It caused a weird cult of people accepting it around the time of Marcus Garvey. Nice topic! Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: CC and sensitivity?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just curious whether Eki and B. Mullquist are aware that cardemaister is suddenly fixated on penises. LOL! I believe they are. According to the Perfect Penis, most normal men are, more or less, every now and then, at least on their own dick... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. defending everything you've been told by Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. And what you're upset about is that some of the TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect
--- Michael Dean Goodman wrote: heart has a feeling - an attraction or repulsion - then the whole rest of the individuality (the intellect, and its servants, the mind and senses) go out and FIND evidence to support, to validate, that belief. Our photography teacher at MIU, whose name escapes me this morning, told us to formulate an image in our minds,then go find it and shoot it. I found this quite astounding; I was under the impression that photographers found arresting images and captured them upon discovering them. Stieglitz did something like the former case when he found clouds that captured some feeling he wanted to illustrate. He called the photos his Equivalents series. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect
--- Michael Dean Goodman wrote: heart has a feeling - an attraction or repulsion - then the whole rest of the individuality (the intellect, and its servants, the mind and senses) go out and FIND evidence to support, to validate, that belief. Our photography teacher at MIU, whose name escapes me this morning, told us to formulate an image in our minds,then go find it and shoot it. I found this quite astounding; I was under the impression that photographers found arresting images and captured them upon discovering them. Stieglitz did something like the former case when he found clouds that captured some feeling he wanted to illustrate. He called the photos his Equivalents series. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect
Thank you Michael, I am at work and have just skimmed your reply, and realize this is a text I will have to come back and exrecize my intellect on to understand more profoundly :-) JGD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, where does mind stop and intellect start? Any hard criteria? The mechanics of perception and discrimination that our intellect would LIKE us to believe in goes like this: sensory input comes in from the objective world, is registered by the mind and turned into thoughts, and the intellect objectively evaluates that input, dis- criminates, and makes intelligent decisions. But the mechanics of perception and discrimination that Maharishi laid out goes like this: first, we have a belief on the level of the heart, the faint feeling level, deeper than the intellect. That means that the heart has a feeling - an attraction or repulsion - then the whole rest of the individuality (the intellect, and its servants, the mind and senses) go out and FIND evidence to support, to validate, that belief. They ig- nore evidence that doesn't support that belief - that evidence, that sen- sory experience, that knowledge, that interpretation does not register. So it turns out that we're not objective at all. The intellect has been lying, and puffing up its own importance, by pretending to be objective and in charge, when really it's just a lackey for the heart. And, if we think about it, this makes sense based on our own experiences. When we love someone (or some place or some thing), we see the details about them, and interpret them through our love. They can do only good - their flaws are not flaws. But when they disappoint us and break up with us, although we keep seeing the same details about them, we interpret those through our anger. Now we are astounded that we ever saw all that goodness in them; now they can do no good. Even what we originally saw as their strengths are now seen as flaws. It's the same exact person (or place or thing) - but vastly different interpretation by our intel- lect - based on changes in our underlying feeling. That underlying feel- ing boldly flavors the (apparently) objective discriminative work of the intellect. When we have a deep personal belief, then even the strongest intellect will ignore logic and even ingore direct experience that invalidates that belief, and will use all of its skill to argue for the validity of that belief, and to find evidence to support that belief. There has been fascinating perceptual research that demonstrates this. Show a bunch of people a photo of a large room filled with hundreds of different objects and a number of people - and flash it in front of their eyes for just a fraction of a second. Then ask them to write down what they saw. Based on their beliefs and desires, they will have seen very different things. Same photo, but very different experiences. If one person was very hungry, then their perceptual machinery uncon- sciously sorts through everything in that fraction of a second and gloms on to items related to eating in some way. Hunger colors the objecti- vity of their perception. If another person had no need for food, but was feeling lonely, then their perceptual machinery sees the people in the photo (but not the food ob- jects). They would swear that there was little if any food in that pic- ture. Again, their desire colors their perception. If a third person had a deep belief (instead of a physical or emotional need), say the belief that men are wonderful teachers, then they'll re- member seeing the man in the photo, standing over a seated woman, with his hand raised to emphasize some point of knowledge he was lovingly sharing. If a fourth person had a deep belief that men are abusive, then they'll remember seeing that man in the photo, standing over a seated woman, with his hand raised to hit her. The intellect (and its servants, the mind and the senses) supports the heart. - Another angle, that more directly responds to your question, Peter: Katha Upanishad 3.10-11 Beyond the organs objects of perception are the subjective senses. Beyond the subjective senses is the mind. Beyond the mind is intellect. Beyond intellect is the individual self/ego/jiva/soul. Beyond the self/ego/jiva is the transcendental unmanifest Self. Beyond the transcendental unmanifest Self is the The Great (Brahman, Brihat). There is nothing beyond The Great. That is the limit, the highest that may be reached, the end of all suffering. In the subjective field of life: 1. The senses perceive. 2. The mind is subtler and receives those perceptions as thoughts. 3. The intellect is subtler yet and analyzes those thoughts. The intellect discriminates, compares, makes
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Woof. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. defending everything you've been told by Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. And what you're upset about is that some of the TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Name three such things, please. Just three. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. Name three such things, please. Just three. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Name three such things, please. Just three. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. So... Examples please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. Cite three of these lies, please. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. Cite three of these lies, please. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. (That won't be Berry, though.) He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. Cite three of these fantasies, please. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. P.S.: Especially when the person spouting the vague generalities is a well-documented chronic liar himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sad: Indias Despairing Farms, a Plague of Suicide
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On India's Despairing Farms, a Plague of Suicide By SOMINI SENGUPTA Published: September 19, 2006, NYT BHADUMARI, India Here in the center of India, on a gray Wednesday morning, a cotton farmer swallowed a bottle of pesticide and fell dead at the threshold of his small mud house. And some are even going blind. See this BBC Reith lecture going back to the year 2000: http://tinyurl.com/czerb Uns. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? I know of one documented case in the movement. With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not more common among believers: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. It caused a weird cult of people accepting it around the time of Marcus Garvey. Nice topic! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Spraig, Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes found in hypnotic subjects while there is with TMers. I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a subset of the broader trance phenomenon. MMY calls the TM induced states higher states. I think this is marketing hype with no evidence of higher anything in its practicers with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated self-regard. I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice to study it, or not. Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that shows consistent physiological correlates to hypnosis? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the recertified teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. From the Wikipedia article on eunuch: Non-castrated eunuchs There is much evidence indicating that ancient and medieval cultures used the term eunuch much differently than we do today. In the compendium of ancient Roman civil law created by Justinian I in the 6th century known as the Digest or Pandects, eunuchs are characterized as not diseased or defective and as physically capable of procreation (Digest 21.1.6.2) -- that is, unless they are missing a necessary part of their anatomy (D 21.1.7). This implies that some eunuchs are anatomically whole. The word eunuch is said to be a general designation that includes eunuchs by nature as well as those who have suffered some kind of physical injury (D 50.16.128). Eunuchs are also distinguished from castrati in the Roman laws: eunuchs, if not castrated, were eligible to marry women (D 23.3.39.1), institute posthumous heirs (D 28.2.6), and adopt children (Institutions of Justinian 1.11.9), while castrati were excluded from all of these rights. In her essay Living in the Shadows: Eunuchs and Gender in Byzantium, Kathryn M. Ringrose demonstrates how eunuch societies included not only castrated men but also homosexuals, transgenders, ascetics, celibates and a wide range of men who were technically impotent or disinterested in women for a wide range of reasons. In India, for instance, a recent study (Citation Needed) of eunuchs revealed that only 8% were actually castrated and less than 1% were intersexed (hermaphroditic). The vast majority of the Indian eunuchs studied were either effeminate homosexual men or crossdressing transgenders, causing many historians to wonder if a similar reality existed in other eunuch cultures around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch In other words, the Greek term translated eunuch, while it literally meant bed-keeper, referring to castrated men who guarded a ruler's bed chamber, was commonly used to mean simply a man who did not have sex with women. In that light, have another look at the Bible verse: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. The first appears to refer to men who are biologically and/or psychologically incapable of having sex with women (including, perhaps, gay men, as well as those who are impotent); the second to castrated (including self- castrated) men (perhaps also men who were not permitted to marry or even those who were sterile); and the third to men who were voluntarily celibate. It's interesting to note that in the Book of Daniel are these verses (1:3-4): The king spoke to Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring in certain of the children of Israel, even of the seed royal and of the nobles; youths in whom was no blemish, but well-favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and endowed with knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability to stand in the king's palace; and that he should teach them the learning and the language of the Chaldeans. The master of the king's eunuchs was asked to choose from among his charges young Jewish men in whom was no blemish. This obviously cannot refer to castrated men, yet they were called eunuchs. It's also important, as with virtually any Bible text, to look at the *context* (Matthew 19:1-11), in which Jesus is responding to a question concerning Moses, who sent his wife away so as not to be distracted in his mission of leading his people to the Promised Land. Jesus' disciples suggest that in such a situation-- nominally a divorce, which Jesus has just said is against God's law--it would be better not to marry at all. Jesus then goes on to deliver the teaching about eunuchs (Matthew 19:12), essentially asserting that not all men are *called* to be in a traditional marriage. In that context, eunuch clearly refers to those men who do not marry and have children, not just to those incapable of having sex with women,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Yeah, that is really taking one(or two) for the team! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the recertified teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird - and some is of course healthy also - . I know one from Purusha that is not able to meditate more than a few minutes - the Sidhi-techniques is out of question. One from Mother Divine stopped with TM. The healthies ones, as I see it, is the people that have had a good balance between TM and Activity and balanced food - enjoying life outside meditation. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason (Islam Democracy- In...
In a message dated 9/18/06 10:38:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (snip)"I'm asking for a name and quote from someone who says Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handle democracy. I gather you just made that part up."It's not a question of evolution, More of a question of having a democracy,In a culture of Islam.Islam is based on subjugation of woman.So right there, no democracy is possible.And so many other reasons...Mr.Bush was influenced by a Russian writer-Natan Sharansky, Soviet human rights activist and Israeli politician ...Anyway, this Russian guy, convinced Mr.Bush, that democracy would be the answer to everything...Mr.Bush bought this notion, lock, stock and barrel...The only problem is, it may be compatible with European and other systems of religion...or belief system.But Islam does not allow for free debate.Beheadings are more the style there.Therefore,,, democracy does not work, and is incompatible with Islam..R.G. R.G. I have to agree with how you put. I wasn't referring to people on this list as seeing the Muslims as being somehow less than Human, but exactly as you put it. That they, as a people, are not ready for Democracy because it is not compatible with their culture. I was referringto Social evolution not biological evolution. And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may needmore time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. Iraq would be a particularly hard place to put it to the test since there has been an age old conflict between Sunni, Shi'ia and Kurds and there is so much mistrust between each ethnic group. Where as in other Muslim nations one group or the other is the overwhelming majority and the minorities have learned to get along better. If Democracy could be nurtured in Iraq long enough for each group to feel secure and not threatened by each other, the other Muslim nations would find it a snap should they decide to make the same move. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? ...or... Debra Lafave? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? I missed that seesion, I guess. :) I can address TTC's and general practice in centers in the early 70's. A period when many of us, not all, were taught to teach TM. It was my experience that were were not taught to lie. In fact, i think the popularity of SIMS in that period was due to an abundance of bright shiny faces speaking from the heart about how great this thing was. An organizational ethos to lie would have quashed that spirit. Jerry did a lot of the lecturing details with us on my TTC. I always had a lot of respect for Jerry and viewed him as a person of integrity. If Turq and Curtis are making the case that Jerry was a con man, I don't buy into their myth. Barry brings up some teacher issues and questions. First, these were not mainstream questions in my experience, during 500+ initiations. They were rare or non-rexistant. Regardless, no organizization or business is required to disclose propriety information. They disclose what is needed to address the customers' issues and concerns with regards to the use of the product or service. Knowing how many mantras there are, or how they are chosen, is not necessary, for any TM student's paractice, nor does such knowledge, if known, improve the practice. Its a non-issue about some proprietary teaching methods. So I wa prepared when asked, to provide some general, correct answers. It is not lying to not disclose every single inner working of an organization or business. Every business or governmental entity puts their product, service, issues, etc, in its best light. Some such spinning is reasonable, other is abusive and deceitful. In the world, there is a broad spectrum to the ranging from fair to highly manipulative and deceitful for PR, promotion and responses to inquiries. The general approach to answering questions at SIMS lectures in the early 70's were far more tame, far more towards or on the fair/good side of the spectrum than the heavy spinning done by most businesses, advertisising, political campagins government officials. If barry and curtis are shocked by the spinning of the TMO in the early 70's -- the era I am addressing -- then they must be totally floored, up in arms, and rioting in the streets regarding the far more heavy handed spinning, lying and distortions prevelant in almost every noon and cranny of modern life. Where I think distortions did exist in that era, not conscious deceit, was in teachers claiming or implying that there more was in the TM research than there was. I think was due to a lack of understanding of the research and its limits. And youthful enthusiasm. When I started lecturing about the sidhis to many audiences, as part of the first wave of teams of governors, a different dynamic was happening. I cringe a bit at that era. Yet, I found a transcript recently of one of my lectures. It was quite craftily spun for a mid-20ish type. No lies. Just making the best case I could for the unimaginable. I was not taught to do that. It just came out, was refined over time, lecture after lecture. Regarding Barry story of course credit, that is an organizational area, not something many teachers were involved in. And thus not relevant to a discussion claims that all TM teachers were taught to lie. However, sounds like 1976-7 that Barry is referring to. That may have been when organizationally things began to go down hill. And when many teachers began to leave due to the lack of organizational integrity. ATR credit being taken back, and all. But just up to that period, I saw a lot of integrity -- again I credit Jerry. I was responsible for banking the course credit for 40+ people on a project in 1972. Everyone was able to use thier credit to my knowledge. And I cashed in mine for a course starting in spring 1976. Up to that period, the organization did not lie as far as saw. MIU pulled some fast ones in 1973-5, IMO, but thats another story. Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/18/06 11:00:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here's what you said:"Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam or that we have no business helping these people get rid of their dictators that steel their wealth that pours into their nations by the hundreds of billions of dollars. The same also say it's too costly or lets just do what we can to get along so we can do business and keep the oil flowing as cheaply as we can. No, not everybody wants to keep the third world nations impoverished and under the thumbs of dictators, just some."Do you really not find your incredibly feeble copoutabove embarrassing?You were *obviously* referring to politicians. Butnow that you're trying to wiggle out of that andpretend you were talking about people on this forum,it turns out there's only *one* person, and you aren'teven sure they used that term.Moreover, "not ready for" is very different from"not evolved enough." One may be entirelycircumstantial--he wasn't ready for the big leagues(because he hadn't trained long enough)--but thatdoesn't mean *inherently* incapable."Not ready for democracy" is a statement about thesituation; "not evolved enough for democracy" is aninsult to a nation's people. They aren'tinterchangeable.You tried to put that insult, which you yourselfmade up, in the mouths of liberals. Shame on you. Let me ask you then Judy, do you think Iraq is "ready" for Democracy? Or do you think they need a "strong man" to keep their society in order? Obviously several on this list think it was a mistake to change the regime in Iraq. Which means they think Iraq would have been better off ruled under Saddam. Most of the Democrat party NOW believes that if they had known before what they know now, they would have been against the war and there would have been no regime change at least with their consent. So my question to you is, was removing Saddam from power a mistake? And do you think that Iraqi's are not ready for Democracy now?If removing him from power was not a mistake, what would you have replaced him with? Perhaps my word selection accusing liberals of thinking of Arabs as not being "evolved" enough would have been better put as being "not ready for", but either way you put it, it is still an insult to Muslim nations to think they are some how not ready to take the step up to a democratic form of government which Iraq would not have now had Democrat Monday morning Quarter backs had their way. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
Andrea. I would have stayed on Purusha longer. --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? ...or... Debra Lafave? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
My experience and perception in and of the movement (early to late 70's) mirrors New Morning's. However, I didn't rise to any position of power or influence within the movement beyond center chair in a couple of different cities, so some of the organizational shenanigans that Turq refers to weren't part of my experience. When Jerry was effectively retired from the movement a great anchor of integrity was lost. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? I missed that seesion, I guess. :) I can address TTC's and general practice in centers in the early 70's. A period when many of us, not all, were taught to teach TM. It was my experience that were were not taught to lie. In fact, i think the popularity of SIMS in that period was due to an abundance of bright shiny faces speaking from the heart about how great this thing was. An organizational ethos to lie would have quashed that spirit. Jerry did a lot of the lecturing details with us on my TTC. I always had a lot of respect for Jerry and viewed him as a person of integrity. If Turq and Curtis are making the case that Jerry was a con man, I don't buy into their myth. Barry brings up some teacher issues and questions. First, these were not mainstream questions in my experience, during 500+ initiations. They were rare or non-rexistant. Regardless, no organizization or business is required to disclose propriety information. They disclose what is needed to address the customers' issues and concerns with regards to the use of the product or service. Knowing how many mantras there are, or how they are chosen, is not necessary, for any TM student's paractice, nor does such knowledge, if known, improve the practice. Its a non-issue about some proprietary teaching methods. So I wa prepared when asked, to provide some general, correct answers. It is not lying to not disclose every single inner working of an organization or business. Every business or governmental entity puts their product, service, issues, etc, in its best light. Some such spinning is reasonable, other is abusive and deceitful. In the world, there is a broad spectrum to the ranging from fair to highly manipulative and deceitful for PR, promotion and responses to inquiries. The general approach to answering questions at SIMS lectures in the early 70's were far more tame, far more towards or on the fair/good side of the spectrum than the heavy spinning done by most businesses, advertisising, political campagins government officials. If barry and curtis are shocked by the spinning of the TMO in the early 70's -- the era I am addressing -- then they must be totally floored, up in arms, and rioting in the streets regarding the far more heavy handed spinning, lying and distortions prevelant in almost every noon and cranny of modern life. Where I think distortions did exist in that era, not conscious deceit, was in teachers claiming or implying that there more was in the TM research than there was. I think was due to a lack of understanding of the research and its limits. And youthful enthusiasm. When I started lecturing about the sidhis to many audiences, as part of the first wave of teams of governors, a different dynamic was happening. I cringe a bit at that era. Yet, I found a transcript recently of one of my lectures. It was quite craftily spun for a mid-20ish type. No lies. Just making the best case I could for the unimaginable. I was not taught to do that. It just came out, was refined over time, lecture after lecture. Regarding Barry story of course credit, that is an organizational area, not something many teachers were involved in. And thus not relevant to a discussion claims that all TM teachers were taught to lie. However, sounds like 1976-7 that Barry is referring to. That may have been when organizationally things began to go down hill. And when many teachers began to leave due to the lack of organizational integrity. ATR credit being taken back, and all. But just up to that period, I saw a lot of integrity -- again I credit Jerry. I was responsible for banking the course credit for 40+ people on a project in 1972. Everyone was able to use thier credit to my knowledge. And I cashed in mine for a course starting in spring 1976. Up to that period, the organization did not lie as far as saw. MIU pulled some fast ones in 1973-5, IMO, but thats another story. Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. So... When were you taught to lie? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Numa Numa
Off.world posted a link to a 4-minute home-made video made by a 20- year-old girl in California that is on youtube. Well, I'm addicted. I've seen it now about 10 times and will go back for more. You must see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-JbSj9L6YENR To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spraig, Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. Cought. PHysiological researchers looking for consistent neurological correlates of hynosis hav exactly the same agenda: to find any such consistent neurological correlates. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes found in hypnotic subjects while there is with TMers. I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a subset of the broader trance phenomenon. MMY calls the TM induced states higher states. I think this is marketing hype with no evidence of higher anything in its practicers with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated self-regard. I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice to study it, or not. Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that shows consistent physiological correlates to hypnosis? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sad: India’s De spairing Farms, a Plague of Suicide
In a message dated 9/19/06 1:25:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The farmer, Anil Kondba Shende, 31, left behind a wife and two smallsons, debts that his family knew about only vaguely and a soggy,ruined 3.5-acre patch of cotton plants that had been his only sourceof income. Three and a half acres of cotton is nothing! There is no income from that! Even if one used the best cotton seed, fertilizers and pesticides, 3.5 acres can not produce enough cotton to feed a one person for long. In the United States cotton is planted in terms of hundreds of acres using the most modern techniques in order to be profitable. Sorry for Anil and family but the days of such subsistence farming is over. They would do better to sell such farms and invest in learning skills and trades. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... OK, so the TM orgnizatio engages in shoddy, dishonest, even reprehensible business practices. That's a far cry from what Curtis was talking about to Skolnick. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. A woman (or man) who chases 14-year-olds, especailly when they are professionally beautiful (as was the case with the former model) obviously has severe emotional problems. Getting involved romatically with a 14-year-old is never a good idea (even for other 14-year-olds!), but is a sign of serious emotional/mental issues for a 26-year-o;ld and to even hint that those issues won't reflect back on the 14-year-old is silly, at best. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... So any who disagree will be lying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience and perception in and of the movement (early to late 70's) mirrors New Morning's. However, I didn't rise to any position of power or influence within the movement beyond center chair in a couple of different cities, so some of the organizational shenanigans that Turq refers to weren't part of my experience. When Jerry was effectively retired from the movement a great anchor of integrity was lost. Slolnick describes Curtis as center chair for DC and as such, the highest ranking person to ever defect from the TMO. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? I missed that seesion, I guess. :) I can address TTC's and general practice in centers in the early 70's. A period when many of us, not all, were taught to teach TM. It was my experience that were were not taught to lie. In fact, i think the popularity of SIMS in that period was due to an abundance of bright shiny faces speaking from the heart about how great this thing was. An organizational ethos to lie would have quashed that spirit. Jerry did a lot of the lecturing details with us on my TTC. I always had a lot of respect for Jerry and viewed him as a person of integrity. If Turq and Curtis are making the case that Jerry was a con man, I don't buy into their myth. Barry brings up some teacher issues and questions. First, these were not mainstream questions in my experience, during 500+ initiations. They were rare or non-rexistant. Regardless, no organizization or business is required to disclose propriety information. They disclose what is needed to address the customers' issues and concerns with regards to the use of the product or service. Knowing how many mantras there are, or how they are chosen, is not necessary, for any TM student's paractice, nor does such knowledge, if known, improve the practice. Its a non-issue about some proprietary teaching methods. So I wa prepared when asked, to provide some general, correct answers. It is not lying to not disclose every single inner working of an organization or business. Every business or governmental entity puts their product, service, issues, etc, in its best light. Some such spinning is reasonable, other is abusive and deceitful. In the world, there is a broad spectrum to the ranging from fair to highly manipulative and deceitful for PR, promotion and responses to inquiries. The general approach to answering questions at SIMS lectures in the early 70's were far more tame, far more towards or on the fair/good side of the spectrum than the heavy spinning done by most businesses, advertisising, political campagins government officials. If barry and curtis are shocked by the spinning of the TMO in the early 70's -- the era I am addressing -- then they must be totally floored, up in arms, and rioting in the streets regarding the far more heavy handed spinning, lying and distortions prevelant in almost every noon and cranny of modern life. Where I think distortions did exist in that era, not conscious deceit, was in teachers claiming or implying that there more was in the TM research than there was. I think was due to a lack of understanding of the research and its limits. And youthful enthusiasm. When I started lecturing about the sidhis to many audiences, as part of the first wave of teams of governors, a different dynamic was happening. I cringe a bit at that era. Yet, I found a transcript recently of one of my lectures. It was quite craftily spun for a mid-20ish type. No lies. Just making the best case I could for the unimaginable. I was not taught to do that. It just came out, was refined over time, lecture after lecture. Regarding Barry story of course credit, that is an organizational area, not something many teachers were involved in. And thus not relevant to a discussion claims that all TM teachers were taught to lie. However, sounds like 1976-7 that Barry is referring to. That may have been when organizationally things began to go down hill. And when many teachers began to leave due to the lack of organizational integrity. ATR credit being taken back, and all. But just up to that period, I saw a lot of integrity -- again I credit Jerry. I was responsible for banking the course credit for 40+ people on a project in 1972. Everyone was able to use thier credit to my knowledge. And I cashed in mine for a course starting in spring 1976. Up to that period, the organization did not lie as far as saw. MIU pulled some fast ones in 1973-5, IMO, but thats another story. Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. Interesting since I knew plenty of people who never knkelt and were still taught. In my latter days of learning advanced techniques, including when I took one from Neil Patterson, I didn't kneel and yet was still taught... about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Numa Numa
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off.world posted a link to a 4-minute home-made video made by a 20- year-old girl in California that is on youtube. Well, I'm addicted. I've seen it now about 10 times and will go back for more. You must see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-JbSj9L6YENR Bah, there are plenty of videos of MUCH higher quality out there. Go to http://tinyurl.com/kuppj which is the finished work animation forum. Anything with several stars next to it is generally topnotch. For your convenience the URL is sorted by reader-rating. On the web, in general, you have things like this which is one of my all time favorites (as well as one of the most popular animations on the web):: Jinai and the Bugrom: LIVE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3WK_5qHGPU To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. A woman (or man) who chases 14-year-olds, especailly when they are professionally beautiful (as was the case with the former model) obviously has severe emotional problems. Getting involved romatically with a 14-year-old is never a good idea (even for other 14-year-olds!), but is a sign of serious emotional/mental issues for a 26-year-o;ld and to even hint that those issues won't reflect back on the 14- year-old is silly, at best. But it's different for boys than for girls. Tell me how such a relationship is nothing but positive for the 14- year-old boy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. A woman (or man) who chases 14-year-olds, especailly when they are professionally beautiful (as was the case with the former model) obviously has severe emotional problems. Getting involved romatically with a 14-year-old is never a good idea (even for other 14-year-olds!), but is a sign of serious emotional/mental issues for a 26-year-o;ld and to even hint that those issues won't reflect back on the 14- year-old is silly, at best. are you suggesting that I've said otherwise..? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. How? I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: My experience and perception in and of the movement (early to late 70's) mirrors New Morning's. Slolnick describes Curtis as center chair for DC and as such, the highest ranking person to ever defect from the TMO. Curtis, do you claim this? I lived at the DC center for a while in 1972. I don't even recall who the center chair was. Like in many centers, it was sort of a rotating job among core teachers. Regardless, whoever the center chair was, he/she was hardly a movement heavy by nature of their position. If they were heavy, then they were heavy for other reasons -- such as golden boy regional lecturer, etc. I also volunteered and hung out alot at Gayely, the national center / local center combined, in 1971. Six layers of heirarchy under one roof. Sims National Director -- Jerry. Sims President, Bob Brant. Regional coordinator (1 of 4 in US), Rick Nelson. Then a state coordinator, a local coordinator (greater LA or SoCal) and a center chairperson. Jerry, possible Rick, are the only ones I would consider movement heavies. And maybe a few really good teachers who held no formal position. A bit later, I was center chair of a major metro area. I was hardly a high-ranking movement heavy because of this. So at least in those days, being center charperson of a metro center, meant little. Everyone was pitching in doing stuff. And as far as defection what exactly does that signify -- in contrast and distinct from 1000's, in later 70's who dropped out from full time, even part time involvement in the TMO -- as they got jobs, got married, pursued careers, got disllusioned with TMO, etc. How is Curtises defection much different from any number of other drop-outs who took new directions? Jonny Gray, Billie Clayton, Devindra, even Rob Mcrutchan (sp) types, leaving the TMO were much more noteworthy and eye-opening than high-ranking Curtis's defection, IMO. Even a Rick Archer getting kicked out of the Domes. But Curis was of a different era than me, early 80's ?, so things may have been different. Curtis, whats your take on Andrew's blurb? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
In a message dated 9/19/06 11:08:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]. wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie?I missed that seesion, I guess. :) SIMS never taught me to or suggested that I lie and I never felt the need to do so either. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason (Islam Democracy- In...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/18/06 10:38:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (snip) I'm asking for a name and quote from someone who says Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handle democracy. I gather you just made that part up. It's not a question of evolution, More of a question of having a democracy, In a culture of Islam. Islam is based on subjugation of woman. So right there, no democracy is possible. And so many other reasons... Mr.Bush was influenced by a Russian writer- Natan Sharansky, Soviet human rights activist and Israeli politician ... Anyway, this Russian guy, convinced Mr.Bush, that democracy would be the answer to everything..t Mr.Bush bought this notion, lock, stock and barrel... The only problem is, it may be compatible with European and other systems of religion...or belief system. But Islam does not allow for free debate. Beheadings are more the style there. Therefore,,, democracy does not work, and is incompatible with Islam.. R.G. R.G. I have to agree with how you put. I wasn't referring to people on this list as seeing the Muslims as being somehow less than Human, but exactly as you put it. That they, as a people, are not ready for Democracy because it is not compatible with their culture. I was referring to Social evolution not biological evolution. And yet, you claimed in another message that the word evolved should have clued readers in to the fact that you were referring to people (turned out to be one person, and maybe not even him) on this forum. The sense in which evolved is most often used here has to do with evolution of consciousness-- spiritual evolution--not sociological or biological evolution. So I'm not buying your further backpedal. And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may need more time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. May need more time and help = not ready Any time I've seen *anyone* suggest anything about the difficulties Iraqis are having with democracy, it's been in the sense of needing more time and help, not that democracy is incompatible with their culture. And I've never, *ever* heard what Bush claimed, that there were people who thought that those with a different skin color than ours weren't capable of democracy. (Who was Bush referring to by the word ours, I wonder?) Iraq would be a particularly hard place to put it to the test since there has been an age old conflict between Sunni, Shi'ia and Kurds and there is so much mistrust between each ethnic group. All of which was very well known long before Bush invaded Iraq. He was warned over and over again that democracy would be very hard to institute and would take careful planning and follow-up, and he ignored every single warning. He marched into Iraq and proceeded to foul things up so badly that now it's not just going to be very hard, it's going to be virtually impossible. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. A woman (or man) who chases 14-year-olds, especailly when they are professionally beautiful (as was the case with the former model) obviously has severe emotional problems. Getting involved romatically with a 14-year-old is never a good idea (even for other 14-year-olds!), but is a sign of serious emotional/mental issues for a 26-year-o;ld and to even hint that those issues won't reflect back on the 14- year-old is silly, at best. are you suggesting that I've said otherwise..? Was really speaking to shemp, and as you can see, he disagrees... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Peter wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. I never heard such questions asked and doubt they ever were. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. Never heard this asked either. However, when I learned, I did not kneel and was taught anyway, and I know many others for whom that was the case. about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. I never heard this question answered directly, either truthfully or with the hint Barry suggests. In any case, typically the question was How many mantras are there? not How many mantras are used in TM? -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. When I learned TM in 1976 and ever since, when that question was asked, what I heard was that the criteria were objective, period. There was never any suggestion as to the *number* of criteria. But we were told it was a very simple process. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. So far, every one of the teachers who has responded, with the sole exception of Curtis, has flatly contradicted Barry's assertion. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/19/06 11:08:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? I missed that seesion, I guess. :) SIMS never taught me to or suggested that I lie and I never felt the need to do so either. Curtis called it the SIMS Shuffle because lying was so prevalent amongst SIMS people or at least Skolnick hinted that Curtis was his source for this term. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 1 - THE TRUTH OF REALITY
"please use your discrimination and judgment in assessing this material. If something rings true to you, fine. If something does not resonate, please leave it behind, for we would not wish to be a stumbling block for any. THE TRUTH OF REALITY Introduction by Mike Pitts The worldin which we liveis filled with aseemingly infinitearray of truths. Everyone on this planet has their individual beliefs stemming from every aspect of how they perceive their own lives to be; their personal relationships, physical conditions and appearances, financial statuses, religious and/orspiritual beliefs, political beliefs, their likes and dislikes, and the list goes on and on.Then there are also collective beliefs that often dictate or control how large numbers of people interact within theirrespective societies. Quite often these beliefs are acted upon without giving any thought as to what is really occurring as a result of those actions, nor how the general consensus of those actions came into being in the first place.Theysimply justify those actions by saying, "Well that's just the way it is.", or " It has always been that way.", or "It's the law.". At this point, the thinking stops. There's no more reason to think. It has previously been decided for them. Andthey have become the followers of that particular way of thinking. This is in most cases how the collective mind/consciousness of the people works at the present time. Once an issue has been decided by any group of so-called authority figures, it can become a dead issue that is continuously carried out with impunity, giving little or no further conscious thought to a special situation of, nor circumstances surrounding the individual. Mindless actions can then be handled with a rubber stamp. People who hold the [powers of the rubber stamp] become automatons for moving those actions forward, day in and day out. Caring for the individual becomes lost in the shuffle. Could their jobs become anymore mundane ? Do their lives follow the same course ? Or do they dream of a better world to come ?If you are reading this, then count yourself as one of the fortunate ones who have decided to think for themselves. You have chosen to "think outside of the box". You are beginning to see thetruth of yourworld more clearly. Most thoughts and beliefs today have been based on half-truths and outright lies from the past. This fact has been thoroughly discussed in the previous sections of this website. Information is continuously withheld from the mass public due to controlling elitist powercrats who feel it is their Divine Right to do so. The mass public remains mostly ignorant to what is true, and what is not. And this is happening in every area of our lives with the exception of where the individual decides to take their own power back. This happens when one begins to be true to ones own self. One begins to realize the true power contained within ones own spirit. Power is not physical strength. Power is spiritual strength. Each of us is connected to our own higher spiritual self, and that connection is never broken. It is always tied directly to the Source of All Creation. It is only weakened to the extent that one accepts the darkness of despair and ignorance. Conversely, it is strengthened as one moves more towards enlightenment. It is our God-given Right and our Divine Purpose to seek knowledge in every way. In doing so, our connection to the Supreme Source of Creation becomes stronger, and any limitations begin to fade away. It is important to note that our limitations are all self-imposed. It is extremely important to learn and understand one simple, yet all-encompassing rule. Your Thoughts Create. And nothing travels faster than the speed of thought. Each individual upon this planet creates their own reality moment by moment, day by day. The more that one succumbs to despair, the more despair one creates for ones own self. Despair can run rampant in war-torn nations, situations of poverty, disease epidemics, starvation, and so on. Each individual is capable of joining these disparaging situations, and each are also capable of creating alternative realities to these situations. In our perceived Universe, as well as in a plethora of Universes beyond our wildest imaginations, everything that exists is comprised of Consciousness. Conscious thought is threaded and interwoven into everything that exists, whether it can be seen or not. There is only a minute portion that can be seen to exist until one attains higher levels of consciousness. Even then, there are yet higher levels that still are not seen from the successive lower levels. But even then, they can be perceived through imagination, thus lifting ones consciousness to the higher level. If we can think it, then we can eventually bring it into existence. It does come into existence on a higher level, even though it may take awhile to manifest on ones
[FairfieldLife] Navaratri starts this week
Navaratri, the nine night celebration of the Divine Mother in various forms, starts this week on Saturday. Traditionally one would read or listen to Chandi Path during this time. Chandi Path tells the story of the creation of Durga, a form of the Divine Mother and her various battles against different demons. It's also considered to be one big long mantra that has some good effects when listened to. Chandi Path can be difficult to find, so I have posted both a translation and three downloadable MP3 files on www.puja.net for those who'd like them. The link is at the bottom of the opening page. Regards, Ben To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird Can you say Schaedenfreude, boys and girls? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. Four so far have contradicted you and Barry: Shemp, new morning, Mark Reavis, and MDixon. So you're claming that these four are believer teachers who are lying to protect daddy MMY. snip The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. Skolnick did not tell you anything remotely like the whole story, Curtis. You might even say that by telling you misleading fractional truths, he lied to you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some coomets, addressed to all posters on this thread, not solely Larry. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, You know this boy personally? From the interview with DLF, from recorded phone convos, he has deep voice, sounds like he is 6'6, and been around the block. Some 9th grade guys are at or near adult height, features -- and quite sexually active. hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. Some 14 year olds could. Hardly a universal. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) Where does this molestation stuff come from. They had been on student field trips. There was flirting going on for some time. At a point, he asked her for a blow-job. She complied. Later, he asked to have sex. She complied. While not great judegment on her part, its hardly molestation. I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has been trying to portray me and several other people on this forum as liars for YEARS, to find that most posters still like us better than they like her. :-) And that they still read our posts and chuckle over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. Me, I think it's really funny. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: SIMS Taught Us to Lie?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 9/19/06 11:08:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? I missed that seesion, I guess. :) SIMS never taught me to or suggested that I lie and I never felt the need to do so either. Curtis called it the SIMS Shuffle because lying was so prevalent amongst SIMS people or at least Skolnick hinted that Curtis was his source for this term. The SIMS shuffle was a common term / joke. There were not classes on how to do the SIMS shuffle. How and when one was seen doing the SIMS Shuffle? Hmm, Often it was by poor and mediocre lecturers. As i recall, it was as much a term applied to the organization. Not always prone to straight answers. Regarding lectures and questions, it was not particularly difficult to stay on message -- that is the main points of a standard Intro lecture all teachers are trained in. Pretty easy to answer the range of questions that arise from such in matter-to-fact ways. IMO, some lecturers were unduly prone to going out on a limb with their lecurers. These at times prompted wierd questions. Some lecturers need to shuffle around to get back on message. And MMY was famous for short humerous quips that cut off lines off questioning that he did not want to go. Like when asked about reincarnation, he would say We are against that. Funny, and quite true and complete on a deeper level. Teachers picked up on that. Some such quips were sometimes seen as the SIMS shuffle at times, perhaps. Again, keeping on message, and difussing questions beyond the scope of the lecture, are hardly lying. Hardly something SIMS teachers were trained to do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) I can only speak for myself but if a 26-year-old that looked like Debra Lafave had had sex with me when I was 14, it would have done a world of good for my self-esteem. I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has been trying to portray me and several other people on this forum as liars for YEARS, Correction: who has been *documenting* that you are liars for years. to find that most posters still like us better than they like her. :-) Unlike Barry, I don't care whether posters like me or not. And that they still read our posts and chuckle over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. The *overwhelming* majority of posters here read and respond to my posts. It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. I suspect it's Barry who is driven crazy at night by the recognition that his long campaign to have others killfile me has failed miserably. Me, I think it's really funny. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason ( Theocracy Vs. Democracy)
(snip) And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may need more time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. May need more time and help = not ready I mean that what they have in Islamic culture, is a Theocracy: A government based in 'Supreme religious authority'... Therefore there is no seperation of church and state, which is the corner-stone of our democracy... So, in that situation, you either have a King of a Theocracy. And that is what all of the Arab countries in the middle east have. Either a king or a dictator. Simply incompatible...with free thinking, and equal rights. very fascist really... R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason ( Theocracy Vs. Democracy)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may need more time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. May need more time and help = not ready I mean that what they have in Islamic culture, is a Theocracy: A government based in 'Supreme religious authority'... Therefore there is no seperation of church and state, which is the corner-stone of our democracy... So, in that situation, you either have a King of a Theocracy. And that is what all of the Arab countries in the middle east have. Either a king or a dictator. Simply incompatible...with free thinking, and equal rights. very fascist really... R.G. Like vedic culture, rajas, and laws based on scripture? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I was never taught that on my TTC. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason ( Theocracy Vs. Democracy)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may need more time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. May need more time and help = not ready I mean that what they have in Islamic culture, is a Theocracy: A government based in 'Supreme religious authority'... Therefore there is no seperation of church and state, which is the corner-stone of our democracy... I wouldn't call it THE cornerstone, it may be one of them and is certainly not something that makes or breaks a democracy. Canada doesn't have the separation of church and state. Up until about 8 years ago (when they amended the constitution for Quebec) all public schools in Quebec were either Protestant or Catholic. Jews were deemed Protestant and sand hymns every morning like everyone else...I went to a Protestant grade school where 90% of the kids and 90% of the faculty were Jewish and no one complained. The Quebec National Assembly has a Cross of Jesus over the Speaker's Chair. It is the tradition of the Members of Quebec's National Assembly to, upon both entering and leaving the chamber, to bow before the Speaker's Chair...and it isn't clear whether they are bowing to the Speaker or to Jesus. So, in that situation, you either have a King of a Theocracy. And that is what all of the Arab countries in the middle east have. Either a king or a dictator. Simply incompatible...with free thinking, and equal rights. very fascist really... R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear that Judy has never *had* that desire to help others, so I don't think it would ever have become relevant. All she's ever been interested in is sucking attention. All she'll EVER be interested in is sucking attention. It's just who she is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
common guys, we know that it is a sex fantasy to get a BJ from good looking sexy teacher. But just stop and think above your pants for a minute to really realize what's involved here. it's not a pretty sight. to those who support her, I'm not sure what are you suggesting exactly, do you want Debra to just walk away because you think she just made a guy happy.? are we naive. Do you think that in the future ,part of any teacher's job description is to give good BJs? (because if you do I'm going back to school as a student, but wait I'm an adult, I wouldn't get messed up). BTW, what would you think and feel, if it was a male teacher with a 14 y.o girl, you would likely want the him (the male teacher) to spend half of his life behind bars, not to mention if it was your girl, you likely feel real hostility towards him, whishing you could meet him in dark alley. Debra Lafave should get a sever punishment, at least as if it was a male teacher using a girl student. We should stand firm behind our resolution that school is a place to bestow values and knowledge and not deteriorate it into a whorehouse. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: Some coomets, addressed to all posters on this thread, not solely Larry. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, You know this boy personally? From the interview with DLF, from recorded phone convos, he has deep voice, sounds like he is 6'6, and been around the block. Some 9th grade guys are at or near adult height, features -- and quite sexually active. hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. Some 14 year olds could. Hardly a universal. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) Where does this molestation stuff come from. They had been on student field trips. There was flirting going on for some time. At a point, he asked her for a blow-job. She complied. Later, he asked to have sex. She complied. While not great judegment on her part, its hardly molestation. I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) I can only speak for myself but if a 26-year-old that looked like Debra Lafave had had sex with me when I was 14, it would have done a world of good for my self-esteem. When it occured she was 23 and he was 14. My hot 34 year old neighbor (my friend's mother!) tried to put the moves on me when I was 14. My mother picked-up the vibes from her and prevented it from happening. Screwing my friends mom would have put a bit of a kink in the psyche of a 14 year old. 2 years later, when I was 16 she tried it again but I wasn't interested because I was already sexual with age appropriate girls. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to those who support her, Its odd if you are including me in that. If so, quite a internal distortion you made of what i wrote. I was clarifying some gross distortions in yours and others posts. That hardly translates into letting DLF go free. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous] TMO lies
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. I tend to agree. While I too find much to fault the TMO about, I was personally never lied to about TM or the TM-Sidhis, and they were true to their word about my TM-Sidhis credit in 1979-80-- I worked for the TMO for six months, was given the full CIC, worked another six months for the TMO, and that was it. As for all the questions I could've asked about mantras, etc., my first experience with TM and subsequent practice was rewarding enough that I didn't concern myself with esoterica (e.g. how many mantras are there? Where does the tradition come from?). I just plain didn't care. After all a tradition, any tradition, is just a long-term habit. As for the deceit and arrogance and stuff about the TMO, I always stayed away from it once I was exposed to it. Something I think a lot of the disenchanted ex teachers here didn't do was to take responsibility for themselves when they became aware that either the TMO or Maharishi was discovered to go against their ethics, values or principles. I did, and so don't have to wallow in all of these recriminations decades later. Even if I didn't understand the particular behavior, I've always been intuitive enough so that if it 'smelled' bad, I stayed away. I would suggest that instead of continuing to rehash these old stories about how X said Y but did Z, it is far easier to admit our mistakes, lack of insight, whatever, and...move on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear that Judy has never *had* that desire to help others, so I don't think it would ever have become relevant. Of course, that's only clear in Barry's increasingly sick mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason ( Theocracy Vs. Democracy)
more on the Pope's hypocrisy and stupidity: http://www.slate.com/id/2149863/nav/tap1/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: common guys, we know that it is a sex fantasy to get a BJ from good looking sexy teacher. But just stop and think above your pants for a minute to really realize what's involved here. it's not a pretty sight. to those who support her, I'm not sure what are you suggesting exactly, do you want Debra to just walk away because you think she just made a guy happy.? I really don't see what she did that was so wrong. are we naive. Do you think that in the future ,part of any teacher's job description is to give good BJs? No. (because if you do I'm going back to school as a student, but wait I'm an adult, I wouldn't get messed up). BTW, what would you think and feel, if it was a male teacher with a 14 y.o girl, you would likely want the him (the male teacher) to spend half of his life behind bars, Absolutely. But there SHOULD be a double standard because men and women are different. For the same reason women shouldn't see combat. not to mention if it was your girl, you likely feel real hostility towards him, whishing you could meet him in dark alley. Debra Lafave should get a sever punishment, at least as if it was a male teacher using a girl student. We should stand firm behind our resolution that school is a place to bestow values and knowledge and not deteriorate it into a whorehouse. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: Some coomets, addressed to all posters on this thread, not solely Larry. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, You know this boy personally? From the interview with DLF, from recorded phone convos, he has deep voice, sounds like he is 6'6, and been around the block. Some 9th grade guys are at or near adult height, features -- and quite sexually active. hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. Some 14 year olds could. Hardly a universal. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) Where does this molestation stuff come from. They had been on student field trips. There was flirting going on for some time. At a point, he asked her for a blow-job. She complied. Later, he asked to have sex. She complied. While not great judegment on her part, its hardly molestation. I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Think back to when you were a 14-year-old. Suppose your teacher put the moves on you. Who would you rather it be: Andrea Dworkin? You made a very clear point here. lol however even a golden gun kills, she could have done some serious emotional damage to a young aged boy. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) I can only speak for myself but if a 26-year-old that looked like Debra Lafave had had sex with me when I was 14, it would have done a world of good for my self-esteem. When it occured she was 23 and he was 14. My hot 34 year old neighbor (my friend's mother!) tried to put the moves on me when I was 14. My mother picked-up the vibes from her and prevented it from happening. Screwing my friends mom would have put a bit of a kink in the psyche of a 14 year old. 2 years later, when I was 16 she tried it again but I wasn't interested because I was already sexual with age appropriate girls. So, you discriminate based on age? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous] TMO lies
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. I tend to agree. While I too find much to fault the TMO about, I was personally never lied to about TM or the TM-Sidhis, and they were true to their word about my TM-Sidhis credit in 1979-80-- I worked for the TMO for six months, was given the full CIC, worked another six months for the TMO, and that was it. As for all the questions I could've asked about mantras, etc., my first experience with TM and subsequent practice was rewarding enough that I didn't concern myself with esoterica (e.g. how many mantras are there? Where does the tradition come from?). I just plain didn't care. After all a tradition, any tradition, is just a long-term habit. As for the deceit and arrogance and stuff about the TMO, I always stayed away from it once I was exposed to it. Something I think a lot of the disenchanted ex teachers here didn't do was to take responsibility for themselves when they became aware that either the TMO or Maharishi was discovered to go against their ethics, values or principles. I did, and so don't have to wallow in all of these recriminations decades later. I had a somewhat similar experience. Although I always thought the teaching was wonderful, almost from Day One I thought the way MMY ran the movement was quite questionable. So there was always a grain of salt there for me when it came to MMY announcing this or that plan. As a result, I was never devastated so much when even greater sleaze was revealed years later. Even if I didn't understand the particular behavior, I've always been intuitive enough so that if it 'smelled' bad, I stayed away. I would suggest that instead of continuing to rehash these old stories about how X said Y but did Z, it is far easier to admit our mistakes, lack of insight, whatever, and...move on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. Even if I had, I would have approved them for TTC because 1) it wasn't my *job* to make judgments like that, 2) seemingly unlike my fellow teachers, I never believed I was *capable* of making such judgments, and 3) I honestly think that the best thing Maharishi ever did was to give a few people the oppor- tunity to become teachers. They (we) weren't ready for it, they (we) were not adequately trained to do the job, and they (we) made lots of mistakes as they (we) tried to do the job. But at the same time we got to learn a lot, and to help a few people, and to exper- ience what it feels like to put your ego aside and work for the benefit of others. That smooths many rough edges. I'd give almost anyone who sincerely desired it that opportunity, rather than be the person who stood in their way. I mean, just look at the alternative, all the people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. So when I met someone who *was* actually willing to walk their talk and *do* something like becoming a TM teacher, I was NOT going to be the one to stand in their way. Think of the alternative, those people who never even *aspired* to become teachers. Look -- every day on this forum -- at how their lives turned out, and what they turned into. I like to think that the people I approved for TTC turned out better. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I mean, just look at the alternative, all the people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? Speaking for myself, you'll see me showing up for a course when it's possible for me to do so. They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Has nothing to do with money, in my case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. I think it was you who wanted to know of the organization that helps people who have overwhelming and/or psychotic experiences as a result of meditdation or another spiritual practice. Grof and Grof wrote a book called Spiritual Emergency and I believe their website is www.realization.com I do not know what happens when you contact them or who replies. You can also Google spritual emergency and get some info. That link is a training management firm. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous] TMO lies
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: I tend to agree. While I too find much to fault the TMO about, I was personally never lied to about TM or the TM-Sidhis, So you really did learn to fly, Jim? Yeah- close enough- the program definitely exceeded my expectations subjectively. Did some very looong hops, and also had some unimaginable experiences which broke some major boundaries. If anything, the advertising erred on the side of being too conservative, for me personally. and they were true to their word about my TM-Sidhis credit in 1979-80-- I worked for the TMO for six months, was given the full CIC, worked another six months for the TMO, and that was it. Great! I really am glad to hear someone got their credit. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What we have to do to stay safe
From Glen Greenwald's blog, Unclaimed Territory, today: The fruits of the President's interrogation policies In addition to all of the other horrors and disgraces highlighted by our Government's conduct in kidnapping an innocent Canadian citizen and torturing him for a year in Syria, this fact -- reported by the WP article -- should be particularly highlighted and broadcast far and wide: Arar, now 36, was detained by U.S. authorities as he changed planes in New York on Sept. 26, 2002. He was held for questioning for 12 days, then flown by jet to Jordan and driven to Syria. He was beaten, forced to confess to having trained in Afghanistan -- where he never has been -- and then kept in a coffin-size dungeon for 10 months before he was released, the Canadian inquiry commission found. That is what the President and his followers insist we have to do in order to stay safe -- abduct people, hold them in secret prisons and torture them. That way, they will confess to crimes they didn't commit, admit that they trained in terrorist camps located in countries they've never been to, tell us about non-existent terrorist plots they invented to satisfy their interrogators, and confirm that detainees whom they don't know and never met are very bad Al Qaeda terrorists -- all so that they won't be tortured any more. And then we'll all be safer. And by doing all of that, we will have taken important steps in winning the hearts and minds of the Muslim world -- so that Al Qaeda won't be able to exploit anti-American resentment for recruitment purposes any longer -- and, by example, we will be leading a revolution in the Middle East where democracy and a respect for human rights finally prevail. http://tinyurl.com/kdmvy The Washington Post article from which Greenwald quotes: http://tinyurl.com/obdjk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: to those who support her, Its odd if you are including me in that. no, that was more stating my opinion on the topic. If so, quite a internal distortion you made of what i wrote. I was clarifying some gross distortions in yours and others posts. That hardly translates into letting DLF go free. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guys: who would you rather be molested by?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: common guys, we know that it is a sex fantasy to get a BJ from good looking sexy teacher. But just stop and think above your pants for a minute to really realize what's involved here. it's not a pretty sight. to those who support her, I'm not sure what are you suggesting exactly, do you want Debra to just walk away because you think she just made a guy happy.? I really don't see what she did that was so wrong. She had sex with a CHILD, sexual misconduct or sex abuse if you will. are we naive. Do you think that in the future ,part of any teacher's job description is to give good BJs? No. (because if you do I'm going back to school as a student, but wait I'm an adult, I wouldn't get messed up). BTW, what would you think and feel, if it was a male teacher with a 14 y.o girl, you would likely want the him (the male teacher) to spend half of his life behind bars, Absolutely. But there SHOULD be a double standard because men and women are different. For the same reason women shouldn't see combat. everyone should be equal before the law. Why her gender should play a role here? not to mention if it was your girl, you likely feel real hostility towards him, whishing you could meet him in dark alley. Debra Lafave should get a sever punishment, at least as if it was a male teacher using a girl student. We should stand firm behind our resolution that school is a place to bestow values and knowledge and not deteriorate it into a whorehouse. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, larry.potter larry.potter@ wrote: Some coomets, addressed to all posters on this thread, not solely Larry. How? the boy is too young, not emotionally developed enough, You know this boy personally? From the interview with DLF, from recorded phone convos, he has deep voice, sounds like he is 6'6, and been around the block. Some 9th grade guys are at or near adult height, features -- and quite sexually active. hence can be emotionally manipulated ,developed dependency, deteriorate into depression, drugs and so on. Some 14 year olds could. Hardly a universal. of course it also depends on the specific personality and his emotional stance. to some boys it could boost their false ego. (years ago kids got married when they were 13 y.o in some cultures, but that's different situation from being molested ) Where does this molestation stuff come from. They had been on student field trips. There was flirting going on for some time. At a point, he asked her for a blow-job. She complied. Later, he asked to have sex. She complied. While not great judegment on her part, its hardly molestation. I would have done my paper route for free for a year if I would have had a tryste with her. ...or... Debra Lafave? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. Nor am I speaking about the lack of integrity in the TMO that is so evident and definitely involves lying as in the pandit project, as in bold-faced promising recerts they would be paid as two of the most recent examples. But as far as teaching goes, my experience is closer to how new.moring describes it. Comments below to some of the specifics that Barry talks mentions though: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. We were never told to say no if the question comes up. We were instructed to use the example of doctors taking the hypocratic oath to aphrodite and all the gods--A comparable level of relevance. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. We were never told this. Not to say that Barry wasn't, but we weren't. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. We were never told this either. The question didn't come up. Different era perhaps. -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. This is something we were definitely not told. Nor is it something I have ever even heard before. I'm curious now if this was a common instruction during that time. -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. We were never told to hint at any numbers at all, just to say--if pushed--we don't discuss that except in the context of teacher training. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. Set criteria; information on the interview form As new morning said, there is spin involved, sure. There is also ideology, belief, and paradigm. Those things can shift over time. It doesn't make one a retrospective liar to have believed something, or have believed in something. Again, I don't know what anyone else's experience on TTC was. I'm not saying others weren't told those things, only that we weren't. I think it's a lot more difficult these days to teach TM without lying because everything a teacher says is belied by the lack of integrity of the organization. Where at one time, the organization could gain credence, plausibility, and a certain amount of leeway from the success of the techniques (which was, after all, what kept so many going in spite of the TMO), now the credibility of the technique(s) suffers becasue of the idiocy and lack of ethics of the organization. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Debbie henning -- 'Shhhhh...(Let's make a deal!)
(snip) TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. That's what I think; like originally I heard, that when they bought the original college property there, in FF; That the asking price was around: $12-13 million. Much of it was past bills as the old Parsons College, left a huge debt, to the town, and the property was becoming an overgrown weedy eye-sore, for FF. So, I believe, Maharishi negotiated a price for the University property of around $2 million. Good Deal!!, I'd say... Also, it is a tradition in India, to always 'negotiate' the best deal possible; almost like it is stupid, not to think of 'all ways', to get a better deal; Almost, like if you feel you have 'good karma'; And something comes your way; You let the 'bad karma', of the seller; Work to your benefit... I think that's the psychology behind these negotiating tactics. R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Pope's speech on Faith and reason ( Theocracy Vs. Democracy)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel babajii_99@ wrote: (snip) And I have to disagree with the premise, that Islamic countries are not ready for Democracy. I think any civilized people are ready for it, but may need more time and help depending on what their previous experiences have been. May need more time and help = not ready I mean that what they have in Islamic culture, is a Theocracy: A government based in 'Supreme religious authority'... Therefore there is no seperation of church and state, which is the corner-stone of our democracy... So, in that situation, you either have a King of a Theocracy. And that is what all of the Arab countries in the middle east have. Either a king or a dictator. Simply incompatible...with free thinking, and equal rights. very fascist really... R.G. Like vedic culture, rajas, and laws based on scripture? Yes, exactly: That is why Maharishi prefers this system, and is not fond of democracy's as we know... To follow the vedic culture, like Maharishi wants, would create, an 'Ideal Society', I believe... However: The increasing polarized Islamic culture seems bent on destructive tendencies to say the least. So, yes, there are 'Enlightened Kings, or Rajas' And yes, there are evil dictators, bent on destruction. Big difference, wouldn't you agree? R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
