Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
I did a blood transfusion on my cat with an 8 Doxy he started bouncing back within a day. He was not FeLV+, but he did have Hemobart Beth Dont Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Tue, 8/24/10, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 10:13 PM Sounds like the vet is not too interested in working with felv cats. Gave up before fighting, huh. With a hematocrit of eight the cat's in real trouble. If it's hemobartonella the rbcs are being continually destroyed. They will generally transfuse around 18 so she doesn't have much time to make a decision. I would go to the emergency clinic if deciding to do the transfusion as they often have blood in house. For hemobartonella, all it would really take is a drop of blood to look at under the the scope to see if there is agglutination. It isn't a definitive test, but very suggestive if there is a limited sample. As far as treating with doxy at this hct, I would. To the best of my knowledge, doxy does not cause bone marrow suppression and the benefit of treatment far outweighs the risk if this is truely a bartonella issue. It is unfortunate further work-up wasn't done. If it were me, I would probably go to the emergency clinic, give sub q fluids, see if I could get a smear to look for agglutination and if there was I would do the transfusion and start doxy. This, however, can be expensive and invasive. She could just try the doxy without a transfusion - in that case I would probably also do prednisone as you need to stop any further destruction of rbcs, but only for a matter of days. It may not work, but it would be the least invasive and less expensive. She may than add some supplements - I'd do cod liver oil about half of human gel capsule(for the Vitamin A, Vitamin D), NAC - about 100mg, and sodium ascorbate - 750mg, and consider the herbal tonic. As you know, no guarantees, but God is in the business of miracles, I believe. Good luck and God bless. Jenny On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.comwrote: my suggestion is CERTAINLY to check for hemobartenellosis--why it wasn't done initially, i have no idea. not knowing the kind of anemia either, makes it difficult. the vet involved claimed that they were having trouble finding any blood, and they wouldn't be able to call til after 5PM. i'd thought that the vast majority of cats in the US were one type, just wasn't sure which. perhaps the vet just presumed she'd want the cat euthed, so once he got preliminary results, he didn't keep looking. you think that doxy is not too hard on the system of a kitty with such a low hematocrit? the good thing is that the cat's mom is NOT going to do extraordinary care to make herself feel better. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:24 PM, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: Hey, With respect to blood transfusions in cats. Most cats are blood group A - around 99% in the US. As it is in people you need to match the blood types. Because there is such a high prevelance of type A in the US, they do not always do a type and cross - to me this seems foolish as it would be easy to just do a cross and look for any reaction in the test tube. I don't think they always know how to do this in general vet labs. If you have a cat that is O or B (again unlikely in the US), they will react to the transfusion of an A blood type donor. I personally have had bad luck with transfusions in felv because you are only treating the symptoms of the disease and they will have to be transfused every month or two. Every transfusion increases the risk of a bad transfusion reaction. If, however, the cat has a regenerative anemia (lots of reticulocytes) and something like a hemobartonella infection, the transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may yield positive results. What I am trying to say is that, if the cat is anemic because his bone marrow is not producing more red blood cells, a transfusion will only prolong the inevitable by a month or two (this would be end stage effects of the felv). Unless there is some novel treatment for felv in this stage (I haven't found much - LTCI, acemannan and interferon have been proposed and sometimes help but no guarantees) and you are willing to try one of them, I would probably not opt to do a transfusion. If, on the other hand, there is a regenerative anemia and an underlying cause for the anemia - like hemobartonella - a transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may be helpful. Especially
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
THANKS! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: I did a blood transfusion on my cat with an 8 Doxy he started bouncing back within a day. He was not FeLV+, but he did have Hemobart Beth Dont Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Tue, 8/24/10, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 10:13 PM Sounds like the vet is not too interested in working with felv cats. Gave up before fighting, huh. With a hematocrit of eight the cat's in real trouble. If it's hemobartonella the rbcs are being continually destroyed. They will generally transfuse around 18 so she doesn't have much time to make a decision. I would go to the emergency clinic if deciding to do the transfusion as they often have blood in house. For hemobartonella, all it would really take is a drop of blood to look at under the the scope to see if there is agglutination. It isn't a definitive test, but very suggestive if there is a limited sample. As far as treating with doxy at this hct, I would. To the best of my knowledge, doxy does not cause bone marrow suppression and the benefit of treatment far outweighs the risk if this is truely a bartonella issue. It is unfortunate further work-up wasn't done. If it were me, I would probably go to the emergency clinic, give sub q fluids, see if I could get a smear to look for agglutination and if there was I would do the transfusion and start doxy. This, however, can be expensive and invasive. She could just try the doxy without a transfusion - in that case I would probably also do prednisone as you need to stop any further destruction of rbcs, but only for a matter of days. It may not work, but it would be the least invasive and less expensive. She may than add some supplements - I'd do cod liver oil about half of human gel capsule(for the Vitamin A, Vitamin D), NAC - about 100mg, and sodium ascorbate - 750mg, and consider the herbal tonic. As you know, no guarantees, but God is in the business of miracles, I believe. Good luck and God bless. Jenny On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.comwrote: my suggestion is CERTAINLY to check for hemobartenellosis--why it wasn't done initially, i have no idea. not knowing the kind of anemia either, makes it difficult. the vet involved claimed that they were having trouble finding any blood, and they wouldn't be able to call til after 5PM. i'd thought that the vast majority of cats in the US were one type, just wasn't sure which. perhaps the vet just presumed she'd want the cat euthed, so once he got preliminary results, he didn't keep looking. you think that doxy is not too hard on the system of a kitty with such a low hematocrit? the good thing is that the cat's mom is NOT going to do extraordinary care to make herself feel better. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:24 PM, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: Hey, With respect to blood transfusions in cats. Most cats are blood group A - around 99% in the US. As it is in people you need to match the blood types. Because there is such a high prevelance of type A in the US, they do not always do a type and cross - to me this seems foolish as it would be easy to just do a cross and look for any reaction in the test tube. I don't think they always know how to do this in general vet labs. If you have a cat that is O or B (again unlikely in the US), they will react to the transfusion of an A blood type donor. I personally have had bad luck with transfusions in felv because you are only treating the symptoms of the disease and they will have to be transfused every month or two. Every transfusion increases the risk of a bad transfusion reaction. If, however, the cat has a regenerative anemia (lots of reticulocytes) and something like a hemobartonella infection, the transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may yield positive results. What I am trying to say is that, if the cat is anemic because his bone marrow is not producing more red blood cells, a transfusion will only prolong the inevitable by a month or two (this would be end stage effects of the felv). Unless there is some novel treatment for felv in this stage (I haven't found much - LTCI, acemannan and interferon have been proposed and sometimes help
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
No, we didn't get a good reason as to why it really happened. And to be honest, after looking back on everything I'm not even sure they checked her blood type. =( It was definitely a learning lesson though for the future. Michelle Brockman It is when we forget ourselves that we do the things which will be remembered Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:59:31 -0700 From: mr_mok...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc did the vet have any idea about why a rejection would occur? surely it's standard to type the donor and donee before transfusing... it's an option in the tool box and knowing about it is good. also, every cat is different [just like us] and mileage may vary when it comes to various treatments Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous From: Michelle Brockman teals...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 3:53:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... Michelle Brockman It is when we forget ourselves that we do the things which will be remembered From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:57:26 -0400 To: lini...@fastmail.fm; gcru...@centurytel.net; ma...@bemikitties.com; FeLVTalk@felineleukemia.org; felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com; cats.ro...@gmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... Michelle Brockman It is when we forget ourselves that we do the things which will be remembered From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:57:26 -0400 To: lini...@fastmail.fm; gcru...@centurytel.net; ma...@bemikitties.com; FeLVTalk@felineleukemia.org; felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com; cats.ro...@gmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
did the vet have any idea about why a rejection would occur? surely it's standard to type the donor and donee before transfusing... it's an option in the tool box and knowing about it is good. also, every cat is different [just like us] and mileage may vary when it comes to various treatments Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous From: Michelle Brockman teals...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 3:53:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... Michelle Brockman It is when we forget ourselves that we do the things which will be remembered From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:57:26 -0400 To: lini...@fastmail.fm; gcru...@centurytel.net; ma...@bemikitties.com; FeLVTalk@felineleukemia.org; felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com; cats.ro...@gmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
my suggestion is CERTAINLY to check for hemobartenellosis--why it wasn't done initially, i have no idea. not knowing the kind of anemia either, makes it difficult. the vet involved claimed that they were having trouble finding any blood, and they wouldn't be able to call til after 5PM. i'd thought that the vast majority of cats in the US were one type, just wasn't sure which. perhaps the vet just presumed she'd want the cat euthed, so once he got preliminary results, he didn't keep looking. you think that doxy is not too hard on the system of a kitty with such a low hematocrit? the good thing is that the cat's mom is NOT going to do extraordinary care to make herself feel better. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:24 PM, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: Hey, With respect to blood transfusions in cats. Most cats are blood group A - around 99% in the US. As it is in people you need to match the blood types. Because there is such a high prevelance of type A in the US, they do not always do a type and cross - to me this seems foolish as it would be easy to just do a cross and look for any reaction in the test tube. I don't think they always know how to do this in general vet labs. If you have a cat that is O or B (again unlikely in the US), they will react to the transfusion of an A blood type donor. I personally have had bad luck with transfusions in felv because you are only treating the symptoms of the disease and they will have to be transfused every month or two. Every transfusion increases the risk of a bad transfusion reaction. If, however, the cat has a regenerative anemia (lots of reticulocytes) and something like a hemobartonella infection, the transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may yield positive results. What I am trying to say is that, if the cat is anemic because his bone marrow is not producing more red blood cells, a transfusion will only prolong the inevitable by a month or two (this would be end stage effects of the felv). Unless there is some novel treatment for felv in this stage (I haven't found much - LTCI, acemannan and interferon have been proposed and sometimes help but no guarantees) and you are willing to try one of them, I would probably not opt to do a transfusion. If, on the other hand, there is a regenerative anemia and an underlying cause for the anemia - like hemobartonella - a transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may be helpful. Especially if there is some desire to attempt to treat the felv - LTCI, interferon, acemannan, a combination of herbal remedies, etc. If all they want to do is a transfusion, I can almost guarantee that is will simply prolong the inevitable by a few weeks. Hope that helps. Jenny On 8/24/10, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
An HCT of 8 is critical, if it isn't stopped very quickly, the cat will die shortly. My vet did transfusions on two of my FeLV cats, she should definitely seek a new vet. The vet should have been able to tell if the anemia is regenerative or non-regenerative. If non-regenerative, not Hemobart. If he suspects Hemobart, did he start the cat on Doxycycline (the drug of choice for Hemobart)? I would say the chances for the cat surviving without a transfusion in the very near future is very slim, even with a transfusion it may a longshot. Gary -- From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:57 PM To: Lance lini...@fastmail.fm; gary gcru...@centurytel.net; Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com; FeLVTalk FeLVTalk@felineleukemia.org; felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com; cats.rocks cats.ro...@gmail.com Subject: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV positive a few months ago. kitty is NOT doing well--with a hematocrit of 8. she asked her vet about doing a transfusion, and he said that's not done with FeLV cats. well, other than getting a new vet, i'm asking you guys for help. (he's also saying it could be whatever-they're-now-calling-hemobartenellosis.) i've got all the info from the rescue, and the contact info of the cat's mom. i know that some of you have experience with this, which i do not: if any of you are willing/able to help walk lisa (the human) and josie (the cat) through this, please let me know! feline anemia boards? i've suggested she check www.adopt.bemikitties for local vets (she MAY be in the miami, FL area, but not sure on that yet--that's where the rescue is), as well as amer assn of feline practitioners for a vet near her, but i think that talking with someone who knows what they're talking about would be a big help. thanks! MC, out of her depth ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
Usually, a transfusion with un-typed blood can be done once, but there is a risk. If the blood is typed and a matching blood used, the risk is very slight. Gary -- From: Michelle Brockman teals...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
thanks, gary! i cannot for the life of me figure out why the vet didn't check for hemobartenellosis, and no, cat is NOT on doxy! on clavamox. (don't even ask.) MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
Just another two cents to addwe had very good luck with two transfusions of typed blood on our kitty several years ago. She didn't have FeLV issues. Sara -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen,etc Usually, a transfusion with un-typed blood can be done once, but there is a risk. If the blood is typed and a matching blood used, the risk is very slight. Gary -- From: Michelle Brockman teals...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ NOD32 5394 (20100824) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
i'm hoping that belinda sees this--i THINK that she's got all the literature references. what i'd been remembering is what i'm hearing back--that hemobartenellwhatever MUST be ruled out, as well as whether it's another form of regenerative anemia. i'd forgotten about the one untyped/crossmatched transfusion without trouble--again, this isn't the end of things that i usually work with! thanks to all--i'm sending things along. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Sara Kasteleyn skastel...@cicresearch.com wrote: Just another two cents to addwe had very good luck with two transfusions of typed blood on our kitty several years ago. She didn't have FeLV issues. Sara -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen,etc Usually, a transfusion with un-typed blood can be done once, but there is a risk. If the blood is typed and a matching blood used, the risk is very slight. Gary -- From: Michelle Brockman teals...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc I always caution people about transfusions based on my own experience. Our kitten needed a transfusion due to her levels being so low which she did get. After the transfusion she perked up and seemed like she was getting better however an hour and half after she started to crash. Three hours later she was dead. The vet said that cats can have a bad reaction to the transfusion and in essence 'reject' the new blood. I wasn't aware if this before hand. I would have rather had a few more days with her rather than be blindsided by her death by transfusionif she was going to die anyway. Hopefully someone can give some helpful suggestions - I just know that transfusions, depending on the circumstances aren't always the best answer. I know too that we tried procrit but that took too long to have any effect and ultimately was pointless. Prayers for Josie... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ NOD32 5394 (20100824) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
Sounds like the vet is not too interested in working with felv cats. Gave up before fighting, huh. With a hematocrit of eight the cat's in real trouble. If it's hemobartonella the rbcs are being continually destroyed. They will generally transfuse around 18 so she doesn't have much time to make a decision. I would go to the emergency clinic if deciding to do the transfusion as they often have blood in house. For hemobartonella, all it would really take is a drop of blood to look at under the the scope to see if there is agglutination. It isn't a definitive test, but very suggestive if there is a limited sample. As far as treating with doxy at this hct, I would. To the best of my knowledge, doxy does not cause bone marrow suppression and the benefit of treatment far outweighs the risk if this is truely a bartonella issue. It is unfortunate further work-up wasn't done. If it were me, I would probably go to the emergency clinic, give sub q fluids, see if I could get a smear to look for agglutination and if there was I would do the transfusion and start doxy. This, however, can be expensive and invasive. She could just try the doxy without a transfusion - in that case I would probably also do prednisone as you need to stop any further destruction of rbcs, but only for a matter of days. It may not work, but it would be the least invasive and less expensive. She may than add some supplements - I'd do cod liver oil about half of human gel capsule(for the Vitamin A, Vitamin D), NAC - about 100mg, and sodium ascorbate - 750mg, and consider the herbal tonic. As you know, no guarantees, but God is in the business of miracles, I believe. Good luck and God bless. Jenny On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.comwrote: my suggestion is CERTAINLY to check for hemobartenellosis--why it wasn't done initially, i have no idea. not knowing the kind of anemia either, makes it difficult. the vet involved claimed that they were having trouble finding any blood, and they wouldn't be able to call til after 5PM. i'd thought that the vast majority of cats in the US were one type, just wasn't sure which. perhaps the vet just presumed she'd want the cat euthed, so once he got preliminary results, he didn't keep looking. you think that doxy is not too hard on the system of a kitty with such a low hematocrit? the good thing is that the cat's mom is NOT going to do extraordinary care to make herself feel better. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:24 PM, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: Hey, With respect to blood transfusions in cats. Most cats are blood group A - around 99% in the US. As it is in people you need to match the blood types. Because there is such a high prevelance of type A in the US, they do not always do a type and cross - to me this seems foolish as it would be easy to just do a cross and look for any reaction in the test tube. I don't think they always know how to do this in general vet labs. If you have a cat that is O or B (again unlikely in the US), they will react to the transfusion of an A blood type donor. I personally have had bad luck with transfusions in felv because you are only treating the symptoms of the disease and they will have to be transfused every month or two. Every transfusion increases the risk of a bad transfusion reaction. If, however, the cat has a regenerative anemia (lots of reticulocytes) and something like a hemobartonella infection, the transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may yield positive results. What I am trying to say is that, if the cat is anemic because his bone marrow is not producing more red blood cells, a transfusion will only prolong the inevitable by a month or two (this would be end stage effects of the felv). Unless there is some novel treatment for felv in this stage (I haven't found much - LTCI, acemannan and interferon have been proposed and sometimes help but no guarantees) and you are willing to try one of them, I would probably not opt to do a transfusion. If, on the other hand, there is a regenerative anemia and an underlying cause for the anemia - like hemobartonella - a transfusion in conjunction with treatment of the hemobartonella may be helpful. Especially if there is some desire to attempt to treat the felv - LTCI, interferon, acemannan, a combination of herbal remedies, etc. If all they want to do is a transfusion, I can almost guarantee that is will simply prolong the inevitable by a few weeks. Hope that helps. Jenny On 8/24/10, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: just got an email from a rescue i work with, about someone who adopted a FeLV
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
Baileys anemia was non regenerative and epogen and prednisolone kick started his red cell production and he did fine for almost 6 months, he passed from undiagnosed pancreatic cancer but his HCT when he passed was still at 33%. He started the epo when his HCT was at 18%, it dropped to 15% (this is normal for it to drop for 2 to 3 weeks), then started going up, when it got to 40% we started dosing once a week instead of 3 times a week and he did fine for almost 6 months. You have to keep an eye on blood pressure as epogen can raise it. Most Drs. freak out when it continues to drop thinking they are having an antibody reaction, that is not the case, sometimes it takes 2 to 3 weeks to start working and sometimes the dose isn't high enough. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
PS. My vet did more than 5 transfusions on a positive and never had problems. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] URGENT: help needed re: info on transfusions/epogen, etc
THANK YOU, honey--i was hoping you'd jump in. okay, here's the latest--she's found an er vet that she's worked with before and likes (this one she took kitty to yesterday was a desperation choice, as she's moved recently--and everything to him is money.) they've got the bloodwork from the first vet, and i think that she's taking josie in tonight. i've got the bloodwork results if anyone wants to see them; otherwise, i guess we'll wait to see what the er vet has to say. again, thanks to all. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Baileys anemia was non regenerative and epogen and prednisolone kick ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
Hi Michael, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Is your son well? I hope he is. I promise to do all I can to help you and your family. You are a very kind person and GOD rewards those that help others. For all those that don't know about Michael Johnson or Second Chance Meows, let me tell you that Michael is a very kind human being. Last year he took in Snowball - Felv+, the 8th member of his cat family. The very cute white Siamese mix with baby blue eyes. Remember him and/or me? He along with Susan Hoffman helped me start Snowball's fundraiser and arranged transportation. Thanks to Michael, Snowball has a home and a family that loves him very much. Take Care and Stay Positive, Reyna Castano Say hi to Snowball for me : ) --- On Thu, 1/21/10, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 8:04 PM Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
I remembered this situation but not names. Hi Reyna! Again, bless you for helping Snowball! Laurie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Reyna Castano Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 4:58 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed Hi Michael, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Is your son well? I hope he is. I promise to do all I can to help you and your family. You are a very kind person and GOD rewards those that help others. For all those that don't know about Michael Johnson or Second Chance Meows, let me tell you that Michael is a very kind human being. Last year he took in Snowball - Felv+, the 8th member of his cat family. The very cute white Siamese mix with baby blue eyes. Remember him and/or me? He along with Susan Hoffman helped me start Snowball's fundraiser and arranged transportation. Thanks to Michael, Snowball has a home and a family that loves him very much. Take Care and Stay Positive, Reyna Castano Say hi to Snowball for me : ) --- On Thu, 1/21/10, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 8:04 PM Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
its updating i added secondchanceme...@yahoo.com to my paypal account so it can stay the same. i love the widgets they are great Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 3:08:54 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed OK, well it appears my real time isn't updating in real time but the money is going to Michael, would you verify that Michael. My programmer is looking at it to see what the problem is. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
MC, please DO cross-post to FeLVPositiveCats. I missed that one. --- On Sat, 1/23/10, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 2:17 PM hi, michael-- sorry to hear about the troubles. i can't do anything before the deadline here, as i'm on disability, and sort of overstepped my allotment for january already... something that you might think about, tho, is asking folks to do a monthly stipend--we're paying a rent payment of $800/month just that way, with most folks just sending $5 or $10 a month. even folks like me can manage the $5 amount! (and could do so for you, too.) remember that a lot of folks feel that the only thing they have to offer is money, because they can't take in another critter, and they can't do transport or physically have the time to volunteer at a shelter or event. we always tell them that money is a very acceptable thing for them to give people want to help, and will if they can--you're not forcing them to, you're just letting them know that there is need. would you mind if i posted the link on the other FeLV list that susan hoffman and i moderate (FeLVPositiveCats)? i'd mostly let your chip-in page speak for itself, but mention that both susan and i have worked with your personally. let me know! MC On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
hi, michael-- sorry to hear about the troubles. i can't do anything before the deadline here, as i'm on disability, and sort of overstepped my allotment for january already... something that you might think about, tho, is asking folks to do a monthly stipend--we're paying a rent payment of $800/month just that way, with most folks just sending $5 or $10 a month. even folks like me can manage the $5 amount! (and could do so for you, too.) remember that a lot of folks feel that the only thing they have to offer is money, because they can't take in another critter, and they can't do transport or physically have the time to volunteer at a shelter or event. we always tell them that money is a very acceptable thing for them to give people want to help, and will if they can--you're not forcing them to, you're just letting them know that there is need. would you mind if i posted the link on the other FeLV list that susan hoffman and i moderate (FeLVPositiveCats)? i'd mostly let your chip-in page speak for itself, but mention that both susan and i have worked with your personally. let me know! MC On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
Hi Michael, I would like to also put a widget up that I have you can see it here, it is a new program I had a programmer make for me, I figure a picture might help pull at the heart strings a bit, MC you can out this on your list too if you want. You can see it here: http://myfundit.com/index.html Yours is the first one on the page, I am assuming the secondchanceme...@yahoo.com is you Pay Pal email, it needs to link to your PP email so the money goes into your account. If your PP address is something else let me know so I can fix it. If you have a picture you'd like to use send it to me, I'm using one of mine so there is something there. Anyone with a website that would like to put it up can click the PLUS and copy and paste it. It updates in real time when someone makes a Pay pal donation to you. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
Thanks for letting us know. I remember Michael taking a rescued cat for a woman who found her way to the FeLV list. LCS -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:18 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed hi, michael-- sorry to hear about the troubles. i can't do anything before the deadline here, as i'm on disability, and sort of overstepped my allotment for january already... something that you might think about, tho, is asking folks to do a monthly stipend--we're paying a rent payment of $800/month just that way, with most folks just sending $5 or $10 a month. even folks like me can manage the $5 amount! (and could do so for you, too.) remember that a lot of folks feel that the only thing they have to offer is money, because they can't take in another critter, and they can't do transport or physically have the time to volunteer at a shelter or event. we always tell them that money is a very acceptable thing for them to give people want to help, and will if they can--you're not forcing them to, you're just letting them know that there is need. would you mind if i posted the link on the other FeLV list that susan hoffman and i moderate (FeLVPositiveCats)? i'd mostly let your chip-in page speak for itself, but mention that both susan and i have worked with your personally. let me know! MC On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
OK, well it appears my real time isn't updating in real time but the money is going to Michael, would you verify that Michael. My programmer is looking at it to see what the problem is. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
i did send it to that list but it never posted and i could not get on the home pageplease put it there if you will Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 2:17:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed hi, michael-- sorry to hear about the troubles. i can't do anything before the deadline here, as i'm on disability, and sort of overstepped my allotment for january already... something that you might think about, tho, is asking folks to do a monthly stipend--we're paying a rent payment of $800/month just that way, with most folks just sending $5 or $10 a month. even folks like me can manage the $5 amount! (and could do so for you, too.) remember that a lot of folks feel that the only thing they have to offer is money, because they can't take in another critter, and they can't do transport or physically have the time to volunteer at a shelter or event. we always tell them that money is a very acceptable thing for them to give people want to help, and will if they can--you're not forcing them to, you're just letting them know that there is need. would you mind if i posted the link on the other FeLV list that susan hoffman and i moderate (FeLVPositiveCats)? i'd mostly let your chip-in page speak for itself, but mention that both susan and i have worked with your personally. let me know! MC On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com wrote: Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Fw: a little help needed
Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary - Forwarded Message From: Second Chance Meows secondchanceme...@yahoo.com To: felvpositivec...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:56 PM Subject: a little help needed Hey everyone, I writing today because we here at Second Chance need some help. back in Oct Our son had to go to the hospital for major surgery and spent 14 days in the ICU and we kind of fell behind in some things. I know lots of you don't know me real well but those of you that do know i don't ask for help but i do give it. please take the link and pass it around to all you know if you would. I'm trying to do some fund raising to help us keep our house so the 8 cats we have will continue to have a home. just follow the link to our donation page or pass it along to others if you will http://secondchancemeows.chipin.com/second-chance-meows Michael Johnson Founder/Owner Second Chance Meows A FeLV Sanctuary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Kelly L wrote: At 06:29 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: Oh I totally understand. The FELV vaccine is one I hate to use. I have had very healthy negative cats have horrible reactions to it. I dread using it, and I make sure I have the necessary meds incase they do have a reaction. and with an immune compromised cat it could be worse i agree. I would not feel comfortable mixing a known positive with non vaccinated negatives and if finances was an issue as the test can be expensive I would error on the side of caution, We just do the best we can and weight the potential outcomes. Kelly the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Help needed
The Oklahoma vet thought it might help too. I have no idea - but these cats are now 9-10 years old. I should have them tested again, just hate to stress them. There also may be a difference (in the effect on FELV cats) between the various vaccines. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 9:05 PM, catatonya wrote: I personally have never heard of this happening. In fact my vet vaccinated my positive twice saying it might help and couldn't hurt. (This was over 10 years ago..) But many cats are vaccinated without being tested, and unless the cat were already sick and showing symptoms I doubt the vaccine would hurt. I would vaccinate everyone. I don't think it would cause a negative cat to become positive. Just my 2 cents from my experience. t Chris Behnke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to be careful with vaccinating because there are cases where that has caused a cat to become positive. That was another thing the vet talked to me about. She feels that as long as they are indoors, it is not required to vaccinate as the vaccaine is not 100% guaranteed. Chris - Original Message - From: Kelly L To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Help needed At 03:50 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote As I mentioned I had one positive and 13 negative...ALL stayed negativevery very very hard to catch even my positive cats best friend, mutual grooming cuddling etc never go it and that was 7 years ago. Kelly : Personally, I would not spend the money to test. If you test you have to retest later, etc I would instead vaccinate everyone as I could afford it. Start with the youngest. They are most susceptible. That's just my opinion of what I'd do in your situation. t Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
no, i've never heard that it was of any benefit. On 2/28/07, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Kelly L wrote: At 06:29 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: Oh I totally understand. The FELV vaccine is one I *hate* to use. I have had very healthy negative cats have horrible reactions to it. I dread using it, and I make sure I have the necessary meds incase they do have a reaction. and with an immune compromised cat it could be worse i agree. I would not feel comfortable mixing a known positive with non vaccinated negatives and if finances was an issue as the test can be expensive I would error on the side of caution, We just do the best we can and weight the potential outcomes. Kelly the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
Yup, I don't vaccinate for Rabies either. Just adopted out a nice Persian to an older lady, we talked about it and then agreed not to vaccinate for Rabies. She took kitty to the vet, who promptly recommended (and did) rabies vacination. Ain't that life. I have always been of the mind NOT to vaccinate pos. for FELV - but like I say, these are the ONLY FELV cats that I've seen live past 3 yrs of age. Something to ponder. Gloria - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed) Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
that's very interesting, gloria--it would be neat to hear others chime in on this. you, my friend's mom... wouldn't it be a kick to find out that the vaccine actually DID have a beneficial effect, after all this time?? heaven knows, there hasn't been nearly enough research done with this virus to know much one way or another--a lot or anecdotal reports might guide new research if it existed, tho. On 2/28/07, Gloria B. Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I don't vaccinate for Rabies either. Just adopted out a nice Persian to an older lady, we talked about it and then agreed not to vaccinate for Rabies. She took kitty to the vet, who promptly recommended (and did) rabies vacination. Ain't that life. I have always been of the mind NOT to vaccinate pos. for FELV - but like I say, these are the ONLY FELV cats that I've seen live past 3 yrs of age. Something to ponder. Gloria - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed) Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
It is against the law here to not vaccinate against rabies. I could have my rescue closed down if I transferred an unvaccinated cat, either to another rescue or to an adopter. Otherwise I wouldn't vaccinate against rabies either. On 2/28/07, Gloria B. Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I don't vaccinate for Rabies either. Just adopted out a nice Persian to an older lady, we talked about it and then agreed not to vaccinate for Rabies. She took kitty to the vet, who promptly recommended (and did) rabies vacination. Ain't that life. I have always been of the mind NOT to vaccinate pos. for FELV - but like I say, these are the ONLY FELV cats that I've seen live past 3 yrs of age. Something to ponder. Gloria - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed) Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
yeah, that's the thing with rabies--if your locale requires it, and you do NOT have up-to-date vaccinations, all of your animals can be confiscated. however, in the case of elderly or impaired cats, most jurisdictions will accept exemption letters from a vet. On 2/28/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is against the law here to not vaccinate against rabies. I could have my rescue closed down if I transferred an unvaccinated cat, either to another rescue or to an adopter. Otherwise I wouldn't vaccinate against rabies either. On 2/28/07, Gloria B. Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I don't vaccinate for Rabies either. Just adopted out a nice Persian to an older lady, we talked about it and then agreed not to vaccinate for Rabies. She took kitty to the vet, who promptly recommended (and did) rabies vacination. Ain't that life. I have always been of the mind NOT to vaccinate pos. for FELV - but like I say, these are the ONLY FELV cats that I've seen live past 3 yrs of age. Something to ponder. Gloria - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed) Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
Cricket lived until he was 4.5 years (and I still hold that the FeLV would not have kicked in had he not been stressed out by 10 extra people living in our home for a week during Hurrican Katrina). It's quite possible I had him vaccinated for FeLV when he was a kitten. I made a note to self to check his records when I get home, and if he was, I'll post. :) Wendy --- TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's very interesting, gloria--it would be neat to hear others chime in on this. you, my friend's mom... wouldn't it be a kick to find out that the vaccine actually DID have a beneficial effect, after all this time?? heaven knows, there hasn't been nearly enough research done with this virus to know much one way or another--a lot or anecdotal reports might guide new research if it existed, tho. On 2/28/07, Gloria B. Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, I don't vaccinate for Rabies either. Just adopted out a nice Persian to an older lady, we talked about it and then agreed not to vaccinate for Rabies. She took kitty to the vet, who promptly recommended (and did) rabies vacination. Ain't that life. I have always been of the mind NOT to vaccinate pos. for FELV - but like I say, these are the ONLY FELV cats that I've seen live past 3 yrs of age. Something to ponder. Gloria - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed) Gloria, Once upon a time there was a thread on the list talking about the possible benefits of vaccinating a pos cat. Maybe it was something that you posted about these particular kitties from OK? Some healthy animals have adverse reactions to vaccines of any sort, it may have more to do with the stress of dealing with the vaccine then the fact that it is the felv vac in particular. After all, it is never recommended to vaccinate an animal that is showing symptoms of any kind. Perhaps the theory of not vaccinating a felv pos asymptomatic cat comes from the fear that the stress will activate the virus, and not necessarily anything in particular about the felv vac in and of itself. I wouldn't vac a felv pos cat for felv on purpose, not unless I could be convinced about the possible benefits. I also wouldn't vac a pos cat for rabies because there is little chance of my house cat coming in contact with disease. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: BUT, MC, Have you ever heard that it was beneficial? That's what this lady's vet was saying. Gloria On Feb 27, 2007, at 6:25 PM, TenHouseCats wrote: i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, *Gloria Lane* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Kelly L wrote: At 06:29 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: Oh I totally understand. The FELV vaccine is one I hate to use. I have had very healthy negative cats have horrible reactions to it. I dread using it, and I make sure I have the necessary meds incase they do have a reaction. and with an immune compromised cat it could be worse i agree. I would not feel comfortable mixing a known positive with non vaccinated negatives and if finances was an issue as the test can be expensive I would error on the side of caution, We just do the best we can and weight the potential outcomes. Kelly the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
i've never seen anything that said that vaccinating positive cats HURT them--or activated the virus, as some folks have claimed--just that it was a waste of money and vaccine i have a friend whose mom's cat died of FeLV complications a year or so ago--they'd never tested her when she came to them as a kitten 8 years or so before, so she was just regularly vaccinated! On 2/27/07, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to use it too - I know there are different varieties that are preferable, and I've heard to avoid the ones that are combined with other vaccines. Interesting thing - I've always heard to avoid vaccinating positives with the FELV vaccine. But I've learned to be open to other options - since I took in 3 FELV cats from a lady in Oklahoma. Hmmm, maybe a couple of years ago? They're 10-11 years old now. Her vet vaccinated them for FELV, as a way of dealing with the FELV. And they're alive today, and I've never had one live that long. Go figure. Gloria On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Kelly L wrote: At 06:29 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: Oh I totally understand. The FELV vaccine is one I *hate* to use. I have had very healthy negative cats have horrible reactions to it. I dread using it, and I make sure I have the necessary meds incase they do have a reaction. and with an immune compromised cat it could be worse i agree. I would not feel comfortable mixing a known positive with non vaccinated negatives and if finances was an issue as the test can be expensive I would error on the side of caution, We just do the best we can and weight the potential outcomes. Kelly the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Help needed
I had 12 cats when I found out one was positive and had been with everyone else for months. I spent a lot of money retesting and everyone else has remained negative. I then brought in another positive (on purpose) because I am not worried about my cats catching the leukemia. The negative cats do need to be vaccinated. It doesn't 'hurt' if you vaccinate someone and they later turn out to be positive. But unless someone gets sick I wouldn't test them again. All my cats mix freely together, eat together, use same litters, etc tonya Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time.
Re: Help needed
I personally have never heard of this happening. In fact my vet vaccinated my positive twice saying it might help and couldn't hurt. (This was over 10 years ago..) But many cats are vaccinated without being tested, and unless the cat were already sick and showing symptoms I doubt the vaccine would hurt. I would vaccinate everyone. I don't think it would cause a negative cat to become positive. Just my 2 cents from my experience. t Chris Behnke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to be careful with vaccinating because there are cases where that has caused a cat to become positive. That was another thing the vet talked to me about. She feels that as long as they are indoors, it is not required to vaccinate as the vaccaine is not 100% guaranteed. Chris - Original Message - From: Kelly L To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Help needed At 03:50 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote As I mentioned I had one positive and 13 negative...ALL stayed negativevery very very hard to catch even my positive cats best friend, mutual grooming cuddling etc never go it and that was 7 years ago. Kelly : Personally, I would not spend the money to test. If you test you have to retest later, etc I would instead vaccinate everyone as I could afford it. Start with the youngest. They are most susceptible. That's just my opinion of what I'd do in your situation. t Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus
Help needed
What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time.
Re: Help needed
Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Help needed
the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time.-- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
RE: Help needed
I second this. You say she stayed away from the others pretty much, and FeLV is pretty hard to catch casually. And when you do have the others tested: Please ask your vets BEFORE you take the others in for tests what their philosophy is on treating FeLV+ or FIV+ cats. If they routinely euthanise asymptomatic kitties, you may want to find another vet who is more enlightened. Do NOT let the vet euthanize anykitty just because it tests positive. There's a huge possibility for false positives with the in-office test, and aside from that, otherwise healthy FeLV+ cats can live long happy lives. It sounds as though the one you lost was starting to get sick, and possibly the stress of the surgery moved things along. It sounds to me like the vet did stuff in the wrong order, actually. You would think they'd have done the non-invasive tests first, and maybe an ultrasound, before doing the invasive stuff. I'm sorry for your loss. Gentle Bridge vibes to her. You sound like great catparents. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org
Re: Help needed
I think it is pretty likely they won't test positive - the disease is pretty hard to spread in adult cats. Opinions vary on this list about mixing positive and negative. In this case, my opinion would be if they have been together this long why separate them now? But they aren't my cats, so you need to make a decision you feel comfortable with. I'm sorry for the loss of your cat. On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
RE: Help needed
If they all *seem* healthy now, chances are that most if not all of them *are* healthy. I'm assuming the girl who got sick already had FeLV when she came to you and has been asymptomatic up till now (i.e. that there's not a source among your other cats from whom she could have caught it). I hope this is the case. Many listmembers will tell you that they mix positive and negative cats without the disease spreading, and I believe some of these aren't even vaccinated. The vaccine is a further safety net of course -- if vaccinated, your negative kitties should remain negative even mixed with the positives. Oh -- I forgot to mention in my other post just now that you should always insist on a retest (in a few months) with the IFA test. This test has to be sent out to a lab for processing, but is more reliable than the in-office (Snap or ELISA) test. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now
Re: Help needed
have to agree with what the majority have said--by now, the others have all been exposed anyway, and since 70% of healthy, adult cats can be exposed and throw the virus off, the odds that your menagerie is mostly safe if high. as far as i know, once a cat has been exposed and has thrown off the virus, further exposure isn't going to affect it, so even if some ARE positive, the others aren't going to re-catch it, and separating out any positives now is sort of locking the barn door after etc. i'd only really worry about any new cats brought into the house, and if i were going to actually test, i'd probably only test the high-risk populations, if any: the very young, the very old, and the otherwise health/immune-compromised. i DID test everyone almost seven years ago when a cat who'd lived with us, who had tested negative, died from FeLV, and everyone who'd lived with her tested negative, including some kittens and elders (high risk)--my vet recommended, at that time, that i not bother retesting until someone became symptomatic. no one ever has, and i've never retested. MC On 2/26/07, Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they all *seem* healthy now, chances are that most if not all of them *are* healthy. I'm assuming the girl who got sick already had FeLV when she came to you and has been asymptomatic up till now (i.e. that there's not a source among your other cats from whom she could have caught it). I hope this is the case. Many listmembers will tell you that they mix positive and negative cats without the disease spreading, and I believe some of these aren't even vaccinated. The vaccine is a further safety net of course -- if vaccinated, your negative kitties should remain negative even mixed with the positives. Oh -- I forgot to mention in my other post just now that you should always insist on a retest (in a few months) with the IFA test. This test has to be sent out to a lab for processing, but is more reliable than the in-office (Snap or ELISA) test. Diane R. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Debbie *Sent:* Monday, February 26, 2007 11:07 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: Help needed the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always
Re: Help needed
I personally thought that the operation was a bit extreme for vomiting, but 2 vets were in agreement. They x rayed her and saw just like a fuzzy mass in her intestines that they thought was something stuck. We brought her home after the operation and she had stopped vomiting. Her name was Elsa. She was such a good kitty. I just couldn't get her to eat at the last so we called the vet. They asked then if she had had a leukemia test. I had told them no in the beginning. That's when they ran it and said it was possitive. We went ahead and agreed to put her to sleep because the vet said she thought the fluid would just come back on her lungs. We have been heartbroken on all of this. A few months ago we found two other cats. One had been injured by farm equiment and ended up dying. The other was so diseased and debilitated that they put him down. My husband and I both cried over these and they weren't even ours. We have tried to help and now I wonder if we just made matters worse. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Feb 26, 2007 12:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I think it is pretty likely they won't test positive - the disease is pretty hard to spread in adult cats. Opinions vary on this list about mixing positive and negative. In this case, my opinion would be if they have been together this long why separate them now? But they aren't my cats, so you need to make a decision you feel comfortable with. I'm sorry for the loss of your cat. On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 squar
Re: Help needed
all of our cats are within 3 1/2 to 4 yr. group, so no one is elderly. We have one cat that had problems with urinary tract crystals, 2 with hormone problems (loss of hair by tail), and only one that is what I would call thin. They all run, jump, play, eat well, and like I said they have all their other vaccinations. Does the group feel like a snap test is accurate at all? If we have them tested can I know that a negative is truly a negative? I doubt we will be able to retest everyone if we test all 14 now. How do you think a vet should approach this sort of thing? I live in a rural community so our vets are more than likely not exceptionally qualified on feline leukemia. No insult intened. -Original Message- From: TenHouseCats <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Feb 26, 2007 12:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed have to agree with what the majority have said--by now, the others have all been exposed anyway, and since 70% of healthy, adult cats can be exposed and throw the virus off, the odds that your menagerie is mostly safe if high. as far as i know, once a cat has been exposed and has thrown off the virus, further exposure isn't going to affect it, so even if some ARE positive, the others aren't going to "re-catch" it, and separating out any positives now is sort of locking the barn door after etc. i'd only really worry about any new cats brought into the house, and if i were going to actually test, i'd probably only test the high-risk populations, if any: the very young, the very old, and the otherwise health/immune-compromised. i DID test everyone almost seven years ago when a cat who'd lived with us, who had tested negative, died from FeLV, and everyone who'd lived with her tested negative, including some kittens and elders (high risk)--my vet recommended, at that time, that i not bother retesting until someone became symptomatic. no one ever has, and i've never retested. MC On 2/26/07, Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they all *seem* healthy now, chances are that most if not all of them *are* healthy. I'm assuming the girl who got sick already had FeLV when she came to you and has been asymptomatic up till now (i.e. that there's not a source among your other cats from whom she could have caught it). I hope this is the case. Many listmembers will tell you that they mix positive and negative cats without the disease spreading, and I believe some of these aren't even vaccinated. The vaccine is a further safety net of course -- if vaccinated, your negative kitties should remain negative even mixed with the positives. Oh -- I forgot to mention in my other post just now that you should always insist on a retest (in a few months) with the IFA test. This test has to be sent out to a lab for processing, but is more reliable than the in-office (Snap or ELISA) test. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of DebbieSent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Help needed the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none hav
RE: Help needed
Bless you for trying to help these babies. Sometimes all you can do is provide comfort and caring at the last. Elsa was lucky to have you. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:41 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I personally thought that the operation was a bit extreme for vomiting, but 2 vets were in agreement. They x rayed her and saw just like a fuzzy mass in her intestines that they thought was something stuck. We brought her home after the operation and she had stopped vomiting. Her name was Elsa. She was such a good kitty. I just couldn't get her to eat at the last so we called the vet. They asked then if she had had a leukemia test. I had told them no in the beginning. That's when they ran it and said it was possitive. We went ahead and agreed to put her to sleep because the vet said she thought the fluid would just come back on her lungs. We have been heartbroken on all of this. A few months ago we found two other cats. One had been injured by farm equiment and ended up dying. The other was so diseased and debilitated that they put him down. My husband and I both cried over these and they weren't even ours. We have tried to help and now I wonder if we just made matters worse. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 12:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I think it is pretty likely they won't test positive - the disease is pretty hard to spread in adult cats. Opinions vary on this list about mixing positive and negative. In this case, my opinion would be if they have been together this long why separate them now? But they aren't my cats, so you need to make a decision you feel comfortable with. I'm sorry for the loss of your cat. On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all
Re: Help needed
It depends on their ages. Kittens have a much harder time throwing off the virus if exposed-about a 40% chance they will test positive for it after 6 months. Within that time frame, they can be in the process of throwing it off, but after that, if they are still testing positive, it's more likely they won't throw it off, but not impossible. We've had cats here prove that. Kittens born with their mother's positive antibodies have the same chance of fighting it off. Older cats are much less likely to catch it. From what I have seen here, only less than about 3%, if that, of adult cats actually contract FeLV from another cat they live with, and since there wasn't much contact between yours, it's highly unlikely any of them contracted it. Fighting (blood/saliva transfer) is a big cause of adult transmission, from what I've seen. I have three cats that never caught FeLV from the 4th after living with him for 4 years and using the same food and litter boxes. We didn't know he was FeLV+ for a long time. They are all negative. Hope this helps. :) Wendy --- Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: Help needed
http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html play out the wonderful articles on FeLV that phaewyrn has collected on the above page, and sit down with your vet and go over them. believe us, it doesn't matter what size city you're in, there are good and bad vets everywhere--what matters is if they are willing to learn for so long, the treatment of choice for FeLV was euthanasia, so too many vets just stopped bothering to find out if that had changed you gave elsa love and warmth, and a home--that can only be a good thing. MC On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: all of our cats are within 3 1/2 to 4 yr. group, so no one is elderly. We have one cat that had problems with urinary tract crystals, 2 with hormone problems (loss of hair by tail), and only one that is what I would call thin. They all run, jump, play, eat well, and like I said they have all their other vaccinations. Does the group feel like a snap test is accurate at all? If we have them tested can I know that a negative is truly a negative? I doubt we will be able to retest everyone if we test all 14 now. How do you think a vet should approach this sort of thing? I live in a rural community so our vets are more than likely not exceptionally qualified on feline leukemia. No insult intened. -Original Message- From: TenHouseCats Sent: Feb 26, 2007 12:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed have to agree with what the majority have said--by now, the others have all been exposed anyway, and since 70% of healthy, adult cats can be exposed and throw the virus off, the odds that your menagerie is mostly safe if high. as far as i know, once a cat has been exposed and has thrown off the virus, further exposure isn't going to affect it, so even if some ARE positive, the others aren't going to re-catch it, and separating out any positives now is sort of locking the barn door after etc. i'd only really worry about any new cats brought into the house, and if i were going to actually test, i'd probably only test the high-risk populations, if any: the very young, the very old, and the otherwise health/immune-compromised. i DID test everyone almost seven years ago when a cat who'd lived with us, who had tested negative, died from FeLV, and everyone who'd lived with her tested negative, including some kittens and elders (high risk)--my vet recommended, at that time, that i not bother retesting until someone became symptomatic. no one ever has, and i've never retested. MC On 2/26/07, Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they all *seem* healthy now, chances are that most if not all of them *are* healthy. I'm assuming the girl who got sick already had FeLV when she came to you and has been asymptomatic up till now (i.e. that there's not a source among your other cats from whom she could have caught it). I hope this is the case. Many listmembers will tell you that they mix positive and negative cats without the disease spreading, and I believe some of these aren't even vaccinated. The vaccine is a further safety net of course -- if vaccinated, your negative kitties should remain negative even mixed with the positives. Oh -- I forgot to mention in my other post just now that you should always insist on a retest (in a few months) with the IFA test. This test has to be sent out to a lab for processing, but is more reliable than the in-office (Snap or ELISA) test. Diane R. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Debbie *Sent:* Monday, February 26, 2007 11:07 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: Help needed the price is for what they call a snap test, a vaccination, and a booster in a few weeks. This was the cheapest vet in a tri county area. We live in Ohio. do you really think there is a possibility that they won't test possitive? If some do and some don't do they need separated, if vaccinated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, I would check around with other places in your area to see if you can find the tests cheaper. I can get a combo test here for $16 per cat, which would be way less than $1,000. At this point I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to test all of them. They have been together and likely either have it or they don't (most likely not). On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2
RE: Help needed
It's sort of amazing how widely vets' philosophies can differ, even within the same practice. Old School is to automatically euthanize, sometimes without even asking the owner's permission, which is why it's important to ask your vet *up front* what their procedures are, so you don't end up with unnecessary losses without even knowing it till it's too late. People on this list have also printed off the tons of good info on the website and brought it to their vets to read, and it has resulted in more knowledgeable and open-minded vets. Any good vet should be willing to learn and adapt. Your rural vet may not be up to speed on all the issues, but a couple of forward-looking articles on current FeLV prognosis and treatment might help them progress. I think there can be false negatives as well as false positives under certain circumstances, though the latter are far more prevalent. As far as retesting, only the cats that test positive need to be retested. And probably you should wait until after any retests to vaccinate, should you decide to vaccinate, since vaccinating an already positive cat isn't good. Chances are that if they've all mingled this long, nobody will be *further* infected during this waiting period. I thought MC's suggestions were really good -- your present group is stable and not at particular immunological risk, so hold off on testing unless someone else starts showing symptoms, but make sure to have any new additions tested to make sure you're not releasing a wolf among the sheep, or pigeons, or whatever that saying is. Best of luck and thanks for caring so much. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed all of our cats are within 3 1/2 to 4 yr. group, so no one is elderly. We have one cat that had problems with urinary tract crystals, 2 with hormone problems (loss of hair by tail), and only one that is what I would call thin. They all run, jump, play, eat well, and like I said they have all their other vaccinations. Does the group feel like a snap test is accurate at all? If we have them tested can I know that a negative is truly a negative? I doubt we will be able to retest everyone if we test all 14 now. How do you think a vet should approach this sort of thing? I live in a rural community so our vets are more than likely not exceptionally qualified on feline leukemia. No insult intened. -Original Message- From: TenHouseCats Sent: Feb 26, 2007 12:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed have to agree with what the majority have said--by now, the others have all been exposed anyway, and since 70% of healthy, adult cats can be exposed and throw the virus off, the odds that your menagerie is mostly safe if high. as far as i know, once a cat has been exposed and has thrown off the virus, further exposure isn't going to affect it, so even if some ARE positive, the others aren't going to re-catch it, and separating out any positives now is sort of locking the barn door after etc. i'd only really worry about any new cats brought into the house, and if i were going to actually test, i'd probably only test the high-risk populations, if any: the very young, the very old, and the otherwise health/immune-compromised. i DID test everyone almost seven years ago when a cat who'd lived with us, who had tested negative, died from FeLV, and everyone who'd lived with her tested negative, including some kittens and elders (high risk)--my vet recommended, at that time, that i not bother retesting until someone became symptomatic. no one ever has, and i've never retested. MC On 2/26/07, Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they all *seem* healthy now, chances are that most if not all of them *are* healthy. I'm assuming the girl who got sick already had FeLV when she came to you and has been asymptomatic up till now (i.e. that there's not a source among your other cats from whom she could have caught it). I hope this is the case. Many listmembers will tell you that they mix positive and negative cats without the disease spreading, and I believe some of these aren't even vaccinated. The vaccine is a further safety net of course -- if vaccinated, your negative kitties should remain negative even mixed with the positives. Oh -- I forgot to mention in my other post just now that you should always insist on a retest (in a few months) with the IFA test. This test has to be sent out to a lab for processing, but is more reliable than the in-office (Snap or ELISA) test. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: Help needed
Hi Debbie, It sounds like you and your husband are doing and have done everything you can. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't be so hard on yourself; you've taken a lot on. I agree that printing off information and taking it to your vet would be wise, although since it's so expensive there, you might look into low cost clinics that are the closest. Most likely they will be located in the more densely populated cities, like Cincinnati, etc. That would probably save you quite a bit of money and the clinic might be willing to work with you pricewise since you have so many (ie. only charging for one office visit instead of 15, etc.). Your current vet should also be willing to work with you pricewise. If not, I'd start looking elsewhere. Definitely do not allow any pts. That is an old school practice. :) Wendy Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: Help needed
what does the pts stand for? Definitely do not allow any pts. -Original Message- From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 1:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, It sounds like you and your husband are doing and have done everything you can. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't be so hard on yourself; you've taken a lot on. I agree that printing off information and taking it to your vet would be wise, although since it's so expensive there, you might look into low cost clinics that are the closest. Most likely they will be located in the more densely populated cities, like Cincinnati, etc. That would probably save you quite a bit of money and the clinic might be willing to work with you pricewise since you have so many (ie. only charging for one office visit instead of 15, etc.). Your current vet should also be willing to work with you pricewise. If not, I'd start looking elsewhere. Definitely do not allow any pts. That is an old school practice. :) Wendy Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
RE: Help needed
Put to sleep. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed what does the pts stand for? Definitely do not allow any pts. -Original Message- From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 1:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, It sounds like you and your husband are doing and have done everything you can. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't be so hard on yourself; you've taken a lot on. I agree that printing off information and taking it to your vet would be wise, although since it's so expensive there, you might look into low cost clinics that are the closest. Most likely they will be located in the more densely populated cities, like Cincinnati, etc. That would probably save you quite a bit of money and the clinic might be willing to work with you pricewise since you have so many (ie. only charging for one office visit instead of 15, etc.). Your current vet should also be willing to work with you pricewise. If not, I'd start looking elsewhere. Definitely do not allow any pts. That is an old school practice. :) Wendy ___ _ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
Re: Re: Help needed
Hello Debbie and welcome. I'm so glad you found us, you sound like you'll fit right in here. Most of us, and I would guess most folks that have had to deal with felv are the type that bring in the wayward ones off the street. Bless you and your husbands for having such open and caring hearts. I'm so sorry for your recent losses. I understand completely how heart wrenching it is to find an animal in need when it's already too late to save them. Please take some comfort in knowing that you helped relieve their suffering and gave them the opportunity to be loved and cared about. As far as sweet Elsa goes, it does sound like she was in the last stages of a very serious illness, (kitties with felv are immune compromised and succumb to secondary illness, not felv itself). Once they start developing symptoms like fluid build up it's costly both in suffering and expense to turn them around, usually, unfortunately, it does signal the beginning of the end. You did the best you could for her and you have nothing to feel guilty about with what took place. Life's hard lessons can really get you down, but you have learned and will learn more as you do your homework about the realities of felv. That's a good thing. You might be able to help educate your vets too, so you may be influencing the lives of many kitties and their guardians in the future. It's an unhappy fact that many well intentioned vets still think of felv as a death sentence and advise euthanasia when someone tests pos, even if the kitty has no symptoms of illness. It's probably because, like you kind folks, the vets usually don't know they are dealing with felv until the end stages when not a lot can be done to turn things around. They see kitties suffering and they just don't know the facts. The facts are that many cats test pos and throw off the virus, the test is actually a false-pos, or they do actually have felv, but with aggressive preventative care, (acting immediately at the first sign of illness, good nutrition, low stress environment, etc), they can and do live happy and healthy lives for a long time to come. It may just be Elsa's legacy to enlighten not only you but your vet as well. That little girl may change the lives of many to come. Please do your best to fight the feeling that you did/do the wrong thing in giving cats in need refuge and love. It's always a good thing to help those in need to the best of your ability. Just look around you at all the sweet angels that call your house home when you start to doubt that. As others have stated, a good many of us have mixed felv pos and negs together. It's a judgement call to do so, but in your case it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to separate cats that have been living together for so long. They've either caught it or they haven't, separating them now will only cause them stress, (one of the no nos with felv). Healthy adult cats have a very good chance of not catching it at all or catching it and fighting it off. I would probably test the four you mention here, and would separate any newcomers that enter your household until they are tested and if neg, vaccinated. If anyone starts acting sick, I'd bring them to the vet immediately and the first thing I'd do is get them tested so you know whether you are dealing with felv or not. Did you say they are all indoor kitties? I probably wouldn't even vaccinate indoor only cats. If you do decide to vaccinate, then you should test those cats first because imo there's no sense, (and could be harm, although there has been debate about that), in vaccinating a cat that already has felv. It is suggested to retest anyone testing pos because the snap test isn't 100% reliable, and also because an infected cat can throw the virus and become neg later. You wouldn't retest a cat that tests neg on the snap test, (false neg tests are more unlikely than false pos), unless you had reason to suspect they had been infected since the last test. The reason it has been suggested to retest using the IFA is because it is more reliable. You asked if you can be sure that a neg snap test result means the cat is truly neg... The answer to that is no, but it is more likely that they are neg though. Felv can be sequestered in the bone marrow, (not present in the blood), and a ELISA test would not show that. If your kitties are acting healthy, then I wouldn't worry, I know that is sometimes easier said than done, but worry does not help. Arm yourself with information, watch them all carefully, get the ones that seem compromised tested and go from there. That's my two cents, (well, I guess it's more like a buck fifty :-) ). Nina Debbie wrote: all of our cats are within 3 1/2 to 4 yr. group, so no one is elderly. We have one cat that had problems with urinary tract crystals, 2 with hormone problems (loss of hair by tail), and only one that is what I would call
Re: Help needed
My husband and I agreed to have the cats all tested. We called close to 20 vets for pricing. None are extremely cheap. The cheapest test by itself was close to $38.00. There was only one vet that offered a snap test cheaper. It is somewhat aggravating because we have spent close to $10,000.00 on the cats and paid all in cash. No one vet seems willing to reduce rates by that much. We will end up I am sure paying at least $900.00 (this yr. alone). Guess they don't realize eventually the money will run out. If it weren't for my husband I would never be able to do this. He retired in the U.K. and moved to the U.S. He took an early lump sum retirement. That is the only way we have been able to do this. I work full time but we live on about $32,000.00/ yrly. before taxes. There are so many pets in need and also people. Sometimes it gets very overwelming. Sure wish we got tax breaks for pet care, but heck most people are lucky to get reimbursed for human healthcare these days. I want to thank EVERYONE for answering my post. All the info. has been greatly appreciated. It is nice to hear from others who love animals like I do. I am at work at the moment and the folks here really don't care at all about pets. It is refreshing to hear that there are people out there that do. Thanks again. Please stay in touch. regards, Debbie -Original Message- From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 1:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, It sounds like you and your husband are doing and have done everything you can. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't be so hard on yourself; you've taken a lot on. I agree that printing off information and taking it to your vet would be wise, although since it's so expensive there, you might look into low cost clinics that are the closest. Most likely they will be located in the more densely populated cities, like Cincinnati, etc. That would probably save you quite a bit of money and the clinic might be willing to work with you pricewise since you have so many (ie. only charging for one office visit instead of 15, etc.). Your current vet should also be willing to work with you pricewise. If not, I'd start looking elsewhere. Definitely do not allow any pts. That is an old school practice. :) Wendy Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: Help needed
Debbie, I don't know if you know any vet techs that would come to your house and draw a tiny bit of blood from some of your kitties, but you can buy the FeLV test kits online CHEAPER at the Revival Animal Health website. The STAT Screen FeLV Test at RevivalAnimal.com at http://www.revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=99%2D033 for under $8 a test (sold in lots of 10 tests). It is a whole blood test, not a saliva test. The Assure FeLv Leukemia Virus Antigen Test Kit is also available at http://www.revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=99%2D004 for a little under $10 a test (sold in lots of 25 tests). Where there's a will, there's a way... Kat (Mew Jersey) On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Debbie wrote: Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:25:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Again I just want to say Thank You. This post has been so helpful. Most groups ignore new post or you might get one opinion. Everyone here has been so helpful. I have always loved cats and will go on loving them. When I was a child my mother suffered from schizophrenia - often times I felt very alone. My cats were my best friends. We lived isolated in the country and mom and dad never put out food for the cats (although I used to snitch bread and milk for them). Back then they were expected to catch mice and fend for themselves. I found that even without them getting food on a regular basis they still stayed and still showed love! That type of companionship and friendship can never be replaced.
Re: Help needed
Debbie, There is financial help out there. Scholarships if you will. Especially if you are living on a fixed income, and are a senior. Here's just one link with links to places that will help out! I gave this list to one lady on the hyperthyroidism site, and one of the groups helped her out! http://www.cavycareinc.org/help_w_vet_bills.htm :) Wendy --- Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My husband and I agreed to have the cats all tested. We called close to 20 vets for pricing. None are extremely cheap. The cheapest test by itself was close to $38.00. There was only one vet that offered a snap test cheaper. It is somewhat aggravating because we have spent close to $10,000.00 on the cats and paid all in cash. No one vet seems willing to reduce rates by that much. We will end up I am sure paying at least $900.00 (this yr. alone). Guess they don't realize eventually the money will run out. If it weren't for my husband I would never be able to do this. He retired in the U.K. and moved to the U.S. He took an early lump sum retirement. That is the only way we have been able to do this. I work full time but we live on about $32,000.00/ yrly. before taxes. There are so many pets in need and also people. Sometimes it gets very overwelming. Sure wish we got tax breaks for pet care, but heck most people are lucky to get reimbursed for human healthcare these days. I want to thank EVERYONE for answering my post. All the info. has been greatly appreciated. It is nice to hear from others who love animals like I do. I am at work at the moment and the folks here really don't care at all about pets. It is refreshing to hear that there are people out there that do. Thanks again. Please stay in touch. regards, Debbie -Original Message- From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 1:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Debbie, It sounds like you and your husband are doing and have done everything you can. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't be so hard on yourself; you've taken a lot on. I agree that printing off information and taking it to your vet would be wise, although since it's so expensive there, you might look into low cost clinics that are the closest. Most likely they will be located in the more densely populated cities, like Cincinnati, etc. That would probably save you quite a bit of money and the clinic might be willing to work with you pricewise since you have so many (ie. only charging for one office visit instead of 15, etc.). Your current vet should also be willing to work with you pricewise. If not, I'd start looking elsewhere. Definitely do not allow any pts. That is an old school practice. :) Wendy Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: Help needed
I totally agree! Pets often give us what we can't get from humans!!! :) Wendy --- Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again I just want to say Thank You. This post has been so helpful. Most groups ignore new post or you might get one opinion. Everyone here has been so helpful. I have always loved cats and will go on loving them. When I was a child my mother suffered from schizophrenia - often times I felt very alone. My cats were my best friends. We lived isolated in the country and mom and dad never put out food for the cats (although I used to snitch bread and milk for them). Back then they were expected to catch mice and fend for themselves. I found that even without them getting food on a regular basis they still stayed and still showed love! That type of companionship and friendship can never be replaced. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: Help needed
I know how hard it is to come up with the cash and how expensive vet care can be. I have been fortunate enough to find a rescue organization in my area that helps me with costs sometimes. I've developed a relationship with them and they trust me enough to know that I have the cats best interest at heart. If they have enough money in the till, they will pay for spay/neuters and some vet care for new arrivals. If they don't, or if it's a procedure that their group wouldn't normally allocate funds to, they'll let me use their group discount, (at the vet that gives discounts to them), put the cost on their bill and then I pay them back in the form of a donation. This helps me because I get the discount and also can deduct the donation on my taxes. It helps them because they can show my donation on their books, and of course they appreciate my efforts to help the animals. Call around to all the groups in your area and tell them what you do for the cats in your care. Let them know that you don't expect them to do anything for you, but would be grateful for suggestions and any help they might provide. They might have extra food/supplies to share, or they might be willing to let you use their vets for things like testing, vaccinations, or spay/neuters. Some groups do their own vaccinations and testing, they may be willing to test your guys at their cost. It never hurts to ask and usually it's so refreshing to them to get calls from people that are doing their part to help animals. So many people call rescues to dump what should be their own responsibility in the rescue's lap and expect them to rush over and take care of whatever problem they need help with never taking into account how overwhelmed and under resourced they are. Approach them in the right way, and I'm sure you'll find a valuable resource. I'm glad if the group has helped you to feel less alone in the good work you are doing. It's been a Godsend to me and so many others. I love the people here! Good luck Debbie, I hope you stay in touch and let us know how you guys are doing. Nina Debbie wrote: My husband and I agreed to have the cats all tested. We called close to 20 vets for pricing. None are extremely cheap. The cheapest test by itself was close to $38.00. There was only one vet that offered a snap test cheaper. It is somewhat aggravating because we have spent close to $10,000.00 on the cats and paid all in cash. No one vet seems willing to reduce rates by that much. We will end up I am sure paying at least $900.00 (this yr. alone). Guess they don't realize eventually the money will run out. If it weren't for my husband I would never be able to do this. He retired in the U.K. and moved to the U.S. He took an early lump sum retirement. That is the only way we have been able to do this. I work full time but we live on about $32,000.00/ yrly. before taxes. There are so many pets in need and also people. Sometimes it gets very overwelming. Sure wish we got tax breaks for pet care, but heck most people are lucky to get reimbursed for human healthcare these days. I want to thank EVERYONE for answering my post. All the info. has been greatly appreciated. It is nice to hear from others who love animals like I do. I am at work at the moment and the folks here really don't care at all about pets. It is refreshing to hear that there are people out there that do. Thanks again. Please stay in touch. regards, Debbie
To Kat Re: Help needed
Kat, Do you know if a prescription is needed before buying the FeLV tests online? :) wendy Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: Help needed
I actually spoke to the local humane societies. I asked if I bought all the shots if they knew someone who would give them to my cats for a donation to their group. The vet we took Elsa to, also was their suggestion. The vet suggested just vaccinating all without testing, when I mentioned this to the humane society they disagreed! I'm thinking this is great - it's their vet and they don't believe in her advice. They told me I should get all the cats tested or expect to lose some or all of them to the disease. -Original Message- From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 2:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I know how hard it is to come up with the cash and how expensive vet care can be. I have been fortunate enough to find a rescue organization in my area that helps me with costs sometimes. I've developed a relationship with them and they trust me enough to know that I have the cats best interest at heart. If they have enough money in the till, they will pay for spay/neuters and some vet care for new arrivals. If they don't, or if it's a procedure that their group wouldn't normally allocate funds to, they'll let me use their group discount, (at the vet that gives discounts to them), put the cost on their bill and then I pay them back in the form of a donation. This helps me because I get the discount and also can deduct the donation on my taxes. It helps them because they can show my donation on their books, and of course they appreciate my efforts to help the animals. Call around to all the groups in your area and tell them what you do for the cats in your care. Let them know that you don't expect them to do anything for you, but would be grateful for suggestions and any help they might provide. They might have extra food/supplies to share, or they might be willing to let you use their vets for things like testing, vaccinations, or spay/neuters. Some groups do their own vaccinations and testing, they may be willing to test your guys at their cost. It never hurts to ask and usually it's so refreshing to them to get calls from people that are doing their part to help animals. So many people call rescues to dump what should be their own responsibility in the rescue's lap and expect them to rush over and take care of whatever problem they need help with never taking into account how overwhelmed and under resourced they are. Approach them in the right way, and I'm sure you'll find a valuable resource. I'm glad if the group has helped you to feel less alone in the good work you are doing. It's been a Godsend to me and so many others. I love the people here! Good luck Debbie, I hope you stay in touch and let us know how you guys are doing. Nina Debbie wrote: My husband and I agreed to have the cats all tested. We called close to 20 vets for pricing. None are extremely cheap. The cheapest test by itself was close to $38.00. There was only one vet that offered a snap test cheaper. It is somewhat aggravating because we have spent close to $10,000.00 on the cats and paid all in cash. No one vet seems willing to reduce rates by that much. We will end up I am sure paying at least $900.00 (this yr. alone). Guess they don't realize eventually the money will run out. If it weren't for my husband I would never be able to do this. He retired in the U.K. and moved to the U.S. He took an early lump sum retirement. That is the only way we have been able to do this. I work full time but we live on about $32,000.00/ yrly. before taxes. There are so many pets in need and also people. Sometimes it gets very overwelming. Sure wish we got tax breaks for pet care, but heck most people are lucky to get reimbursed for human healthcare these days. I want to thank EVERYONE for answering my post. All the info. has been greatly appreciated. It is nice to hear from others who love animals like I do. I am at work at the moment and the folks here really don't care at all about pets. It is refreshing to hear that there are people out there that do. Thanks again. Please stay in touch. regards, Debbie
Re: Help needed
At 03:50 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote As I mentioned I had one positive and 13 negative...ALL stayed negativevery very very hard to catch even my positive cats best friend, mutual grooming cuddling etc never go it and that was 7 years ago. Kelly : Personally, I would not spend the money to test. If you test you have to retest later, etc I would instead vaccinate everyone as I could afford it. Start with the youngest. They are most susceptible. That's just my opinion of what I'd do in your situation. t Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org/http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007
Re: Help needed
You have to be careful with vaccinating because there are cases where that has caused a cat to become positive. That was another thing the vet talked to me about. She feels that as long as they are indoors, it is not required to vaccinate as the vaccaine is not 100% guaranteed. Chris - Original Message - From: Kelly L To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Help needed At 03:50 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote As I mentioned I had one positive and 13 negative...ALL stayed negativevery very very hard to catch even my positive cats best friend, mutual grooming cuddling etc never go it and that was 7 years ago. Kelly : Personally, I would not spend the money to test. If you test you have to retest later, etc I would instead vaccinate everyone as I could afford it. Start with the youngest. They are most susceptible. That's just my opinion of what I'd do in your situation. t Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 2:56 PM
Re: Help needed
At 06:07 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: never heard of a cat becoming positive from FELV vaccineif that was the case no one would vaccinate their cats and it would be taken off the market, With the FIV vaccine once a cat has received it it will always TEST positive but not have it, You have to be careful with vaccinating because there are cases where that has caused a cat to become positive. That was another thing the vet talked to me about. She feels that as long as they are indoors, it is not required to vaccinate as the vaccaine is not 100% guaranteed. Chris - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Kelly L To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Help needed At 03:50 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote As I mentioned I had one positive and 13 negative...ALL stayed negativevery very very hard to catch even my positive cats best friend, mutual grooming cuddling etc never go it and that was 7 years ago. Kelly : Personally, I would not spend the money to test. If you test you have to retest later, etc I would instead vaccinate everyone as I could afford it. Start with the youngest. They are most susceptible. That's just my opinion of what I'd do in your situation. t Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cats were all spayed and neutered and had all shots except the feline leukemia. They have been to the vet yearly or whenever needed. We aquired so many at once we could not afford the testing and shots. A lady I worked with found 3 kittens in a dumpster, 2 weeks later 4 more - we bottle raised all of them and they all lived. At that same time a stray came in winter and had 4 babies. They all lived also. A month after this we took a trip 500 miles away and found 2 kittens starving in a field in the middle of nowhere. We brought them back. These were tested (not sure why vet decided this) and they were ok at that time. All the cats got along and seldon fought. If they did it was not the biting, scratching, etc... Soon after that a cat roamed up at a barbeque we had. She was young and in heat. We did not want her to get pregnant and she stayed so we brought her in. She was a very shy cat. She liked attention but seldom went near the others. Her eyes, nose, and mouth were clear (no discharge). A few weeks ago she started throwing up. We took her to the vet. She had nver been seriously ill (none have). They are all around 4 yrs, old now. Anyhow the vet said something was probably stuck in her intestines so they operated. All they found was enlarged lymph nodes. They did a biopsy and said they were not cancerous. She started doing better but then it was hard to get her to eat. We took her back in and they said her lungs had fluid in them. They drained it off. After all of this they came back and said she tested postive for leukemia. They recommended putting her to sleep. Now we have a nightmare. We have all the others, plus just paid out $700.00 for a cat that they ended up putting down. Don't know if the operation threw her into it all or what. We are going to have the others tested but it will be over $1000.00. We feel awful. If you don't have the money though it isn't always as some people think to keep up with everything. -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika Sent: Feb 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I don't think anyone can give you odds on that. I would say it would be unlikely that they will all be positive and quite possible that none will be positive. If there is anything I have learned from this list it is that FELV is pretty hard to catch. Were any of the cats vaccinated against FELV? On 2/26/07, Debbie mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the odds of having 15 cats and one tests postive - will the others all be postive? These are cats that are strictly indoors now in a 1200 square foot house. The infected cat was not outwardly sick and di not socialize with the other cats, however they used same litter boxes and ate from same dishes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. All cats are close to same age, different litters, aquired at the same time. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org/http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 2:56 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007
Re: Help needed
Hi Debbie I went through this scenario this past fall started with 11 cats. Two cats became ill. One Died at the vets office was never tested for FeLV but I guarantee based on symptoms he was also FeLV. This prompted testing of Junior who tested positive and was sick with a 106.5 fever. Ok now I have 9 more cats with the high costs of testing and Junior had already cost me $1000 bc he was hit by a car. I worked out something with the vet. They only charged a short visit and tested 4-5 cats at a time plus the Idexx snap test. They further gave me a multicat discount, and then finally Idexx had a rebate at the time so I got refunded $15 from Idexx. The vets office even submitted that paperwork. Here was the bad news 2 more cats tested positive and one also tested for FIV. He was sick when I got him from a shelter and was showing symptoms of being sick again. I did have him PTS. Tiny tested positive, Junior's half brother. Tiny was asymptomatic. Junior was sick with a URI for quite a while following the positive test. Then an eye infection he is mostly blind now due to the fact he already lost sight in the eye where he was hot by a car. However the good news id he is stable now and has outlived the short term life expectancy for FelV cats. I have him on several supplements and he received a course of immuno regulin. Tiny died Xmas day, but I was there and I do not think his FeLv status had anything to do with it. He had some other undiagnosed condition that I could guess at but it would only be a guess. After I had all the cats tested I had them Vaccinated for everything, That was expensive as well. I now have mixed the cats and no other cats have been sick. Daisy my newest baby is BIG TIME in heat. She has been screaming for two days. She peed on my pillow last night and gain this morning marked my headboard.Thank god her appt is tomorrow. The clinic was booked 7 weeksin advance. She had never been in heat when I made the appointment. Junior has a checkup next week. I need to call his vet this week to see if she will refill his Tresaderm. It was fron another vet clinic where he was treated for his car injuries. He ears have gotten better since I started using it but I am out now. It seems he did have some kind of ear infection. Thats about it. Good luck with your loved ones. Sally Davis On 2/26/07, Debbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually spoke to the local humane societies. I asked if I bought all the shots if they knew someone who would give them to my cats for a donation to their group. The vet we took Elsa to, also was their suggestion. The vet suggested just vaccinating all without testing, when I mentioned this to the humane society they disagreed! I'm thinking this is great - it's their vet and they don't believe in her advice. They told me I should get all the cats tested or expect to lose some or all of them to the disease. -Original Message- From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 26, 2007 2:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Help needed I know how hard it is to come up with the cash and how expensive vet care can be. I have been fortunate enough to find a rescue organization in my area that helps me with costs sometimes. I've developed a relationship with them and they trust me enough to know that I have the cats best interest at heart. If they have enough money in the till, they will pay for spay/neuters and some vet care for new arrivals. If they don't, or if it's a procedure that their group wouldn't normally allocate funds to, they'll let me use their group discount, (at the vet that gives discounts to them), put the cost on their bill and then I pay them back in the form of a donation. This helps me because I get the discount and also can deduct the donation on my taxes. It helps them because they can show my donation on their books, and of course they appreciate my efforts to help the animals. Call around to all the groups in your area and tell them what you do for the cats in your care. Let them know that you don't expect them to do anything for you, but would be grateful for suggestions and any help they might provide. They might have extra food/supplies to share, or they might be willing to let you use their vets for things like testing, vaccinations, or spay/neuters. Some groups do their own vaccinations and testing, they may be willing to test your guys at their cost. It never hurts to ask and usually it's so refreshing to them to get calls from people that are doing their part to help animals. So many people call rescues to dump what should be their own responsibility in the rescue's lap and expect them to rush over and take care of whatever problem they need help with never taking into account how overwhelmed and under resourced they are. Approach them in the right way, and I'm sure you'll find a valuable resource. I'm glad if the group has helped you to feel less alone in the good work you are doing. It's been a Godsend to me
Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy
Re: Vacinating postivies (was Re: Help needed)
At 06:29 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote: Oh I totally understand. The FELV vaccine is one I hate to use. I have had very healthy negative cats have horrible reactions to it. I dread using it, and I make sure I have the necessary meds incase they do have a reaction. and with an immune compromised cat it could be worse i agree. I would not feel comfortable mixing a known positive with non vaccinated negatives and if finances was an issue as the test can be expensive I would error on the side of caution, We just do the best we can and weight the potential outcomes. Kelly the main reason I don't like to vaccinate positives is I had one cat that was very healthy despite the FeLV+ status and the vet accidently gave him the vaccine, he went down hill immediately and then diedNOW, I doubt there was a connection, but. it was my vets who said don't vaccinate the positives and this was an honest mix up (I have many cats and brought them en mass for vaccines...) so if I know they are positive, I don't vaccinate. Tracy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007
toilet training help needed for adult cats
Hi all I just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for the London Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one of her readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturally is counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds a real cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find an answer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has any ideas that they think would work better than those the reader has tried already (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! Kerry Dear Aggie We have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properly toilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, we don't seem to be able to change their habits. They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try to clean, but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed. We have tried: 1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whether we can re-train them 2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine I presume they re-fouled it almost immediately 3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joy We are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it is really getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contact details of a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful. If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treat the planking underneath? By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedom to go out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!! Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugs Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Sigh... Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was really upset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and told him how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he was comfortable again he let me come back and pet and cuddle with him and he purred. I talked it over with him but I don't think he'll be receptive to the idea ever again. lol. Are they more receptive to shots than syringe? Forget the turkey juice, he wont even LOOK at the syringe much less let it near him. In a panic at 915 I called Petco (my LAST resort EVER) as one of the retailers listed for pill pockets. This week is a rough week as far as extra cash goes, I've had to stretch it a LONG ways. The site said and for only 4 or 5 dollars! yea right, I walk into Petco and THEY'RE selling them for 11 bucks for the bags sold for under 5 online! I yelped to the lady who helped me find them Holy crap! Eleven dollars! These are 4 bucks online! I walked out astounded and ran to look for them elsewhere. I couldnt find them anywhere else, by the time I'd gone, it was too late they were closed so i got some soft cat treats thinking I could shove the pills into the treat (which I was able to) but he turned his nose up at them. Sigh. Jenn, i did try sitting on him, but again, as you said, there's the problem with there being just me and no one to help with the front legs. At least not every day. I only see my boyfriend on weekends so the rest of the week would be shot. :( I'll call the vet tomorrow and discuss other options. Maybe I will have him boarded for treatment. I dunno. I hate having animals at the vet even for just that. I'm such a baby. I cried my eyes out when I had to leave Linus overnight. Of course he was having surgery under anesthesia so I was a MESS. If only I could describe his expression and behavior when we went to pick him up. I'll never forget it. (As he sits here with his head and front paws on my lap my little puggy. I call him babyhead because his head is so little and he looks like a baby pup. lol.) Gosh my emails are really long. Does everyone wanna kill me yet? lol. Thanks so much everyone. I was so distressed. I dont want him to be sick anymore. I'm so worried and I hate stressing him out. I cry easy when I get overwhelmed at things like this so I was a little over the edge earlier. Anyhow, tomorrow's a new day and I can speak with the vet. Hugs, Rebecca hr IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such
Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats
First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly.If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't seem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter.I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere. "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful.If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treattheplanking underneath?By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedomtogo out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!!Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated,-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugsSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Sigh...Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was reallyupset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and toldhim how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he was comfortable again he let me come back and pet andcuddle with him and he purred. I talked it over with him but I don't think he'll be receptive to the idea everagain. lol. Are they more receptive to shots than syringe? Forget the turkey juice, he wont even LOOK at the syringe muchless let it near him. In a panic at 915 I called Petco (my LAST resort EVER) as one of the retailers listed forpill pockets. This week is a rough week as far as extra cash goes, I've had to stretch it a LONG ways. The site said "andfor only 4 or 5 dollars!" yea right, I walk into Petco and THEY'RE selling them for 11 bucks for the bags sold for under5 online! I yelped to the lady who helped me find them "Holy crap! Eleven dollars! These are 4 bucks online!" Iwalked out astounded and ran to look for them elsewhere. I couldnt find them anywhere else, by the time I'd gone, itwas too late they were closed so i got some soft cat treats thinking I could shove the pills into the treat (which Iwas able to) but he turned his nose up at them. Sigh. Jenn, i did try "sitting" on him, but again, as you said, there'sthe problem with there being just me and no one to help with the front legs. At least not every day. I only see myboyfriend on weekends so the rest of the week would be shot. :( I'll call the vet tomorrow and discuss other options. MaybeI will have him boarded for treatment. I dunno. I hate having animals at the vet even for just that. I'm such a baby. Icried my eyes out when I had to leave Linus overnight. Of course he was having surgery under anesthesia so I was aMESS. If only I could describe his _expression_ and behavior when we went to pick him up. I'll never forget it. (As hesits here with his head and front paws on my lap my little puggy. I call him babyhead because his head is so littleand he looks like a baby pup. lol.) Gosh my emails are really long. Does everyone wanna kill me yet? lol. Thanks somuch everyone. I was so distressed. I dont want him to be sick anymore. I'm so worried and I hate
RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats
Title: Message Thanks SO much Barb. This is perfect! The person sounds like a real genuine cat person, soI feel sure that she will follow your instructions. (As we know, a lot of folks would just think, "I don't think so", and take the cats off to the nearest shelter/pound.) I'm going to pushAgto putthe whole Q A in her column (as well as responding to the reader directly which she always does)---maybe it will save some cats' lives. (Isn't this the number one reason catsend up gettingeuthanized?) What's "nbsp" by the way?! Kerry -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly. If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't seem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter. I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere.! nbsp; "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to! be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful.If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treattheplanking underneath?By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedomtogo out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!!! Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated,-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugsSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Sigh...Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was reallyupset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and toldhim how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he was comfortable again he let me come back and pet andcuddle with him and he purred. I talked it over with him but I don't think he'll be receptive to the idea everagain. lol. Are they more receptive to shots than syringe? Forget the turkey juice, he wont even LOOK at the syringe muchless let it near him. In a panic at 915 I called Petco (my LAST resort EVER) as one of the ! retailers listed forpill pockets. This week is a rough week as far as extra cash goes, I've had to stretch it a LONG ways. The site said "andfor only 4 or 5 dollars!" yea right, I walk into Petco and THEY'RE selling them for 11 bucks for the bags sold for under5 online! I yelped to the lady who helped me find them "Holy crap! Eleven dollars! These are 4 bucks online!" Iwalked out astounded and ran to look for them elsewhere. I couldnt find them anywhere else, by the time I'd gone, itwas too late they were closed so i got some soft cat treats thinking I could shove the pills into the treat (which Iwas able to) but he turned his nose up
Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats
kerry: check out this link: http://www.preciouscat.com/WebPages/catattract.html cat attract litter has worked for MANY MANY rescue folks i know of; i've used it myself with good results (it's not the best for a LOT of cats at once, just because it sort of cements up--but most folks don't have the number of cats i do!) they even have a UK distributor, who is NOT mentioned on their website--yep, i called! R L Pet Products, in W Sussex, 44-1273-454-005. DEFINITELY worth a shot--plus, there's a booklet that comes along with each bag that's got a lot of good suggestions in it -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
For Michelle UK: toilet training help needed for adult cats + enzyme Q
Title: Message Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. A thought---these brand names won't be available in UK---Michelle--do you happen to know ofa UK brandthat works really well? Or, does anyone know the effective ingredient to look foron the packaging? Hopefully the ingred names are the same in both countries. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:13 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats Thanks SO much Barb. This is perfect! The person sounds like a real genuine cat person, soI feel sure that she will follow your instructions. (As we know, a lot of folks would just think, "I don't think so", and take the cats off to the nearest shelter/pound.) I'm going to pushAgto putthe whole Q A in her column (as well as responding to the reader directly which she always does)---maybe it will save some cats' lives. (Isn't this the number one reason catsend up gettingeuthanized?) What's "nbsp" by the way?! Kerry -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly. If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't seem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter. I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere.! nbsp; "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to! be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful.If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treattheplanking underneath?By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedomtogo out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!!! Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated,-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugsSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Sigh...Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was reallyupset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and toldhim how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he was comfortable again he let me come back and pet andcuddle with him and he purred. I talked it over with him but I don't think he'll be receptive to the idea everagain. lol. Are they more receptive to shots than syringe? Forget the turkey juice, he wont even LOOK at the syringe muchless let it near him. In a panic at 915 I called Petco (my LAST resort EVER) as one of the ! retailers listed forpill pockets. This week is a rough week as far as extra cash goes, I've had to stretch it a LONG ways. The
RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats
You guys are just great. Thank you so much MaryChristine, and for finding out about UK distributor. This is just wonderful. My sister is a good person, but she is NOT a cat person (none of my family are)--she's actually scared of cats. I'm also hoping this will bring her around a littleshe's in a useful position to advocate were she inclined. Kerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:26 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats kerry: check out this link: http://www.preciouscat.com/WebPages/catattract.html cat attract litter has worked for MANY MANY rescue folks i know of; i've used it myself with good results (it's not the best for a LOT of cats at once, just because it sort of cements up--but most folks don't have the number of cats i do!) they even have a UK distributor, who is NOT mentioned on their website--yep, i called! R L Pet Products, in W Sussex, 44-1273-454-005. DEFINITELY worth a shot--plus, there's a booklet that comes along with each bag that's got a lot of good suggestions in it -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 hr IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor hr This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
for Barb MC RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats
I'm one of the few that don't know of this listthis is great! I now have a great package of ideas to send on!! I SO appreciate all this info!! Thank you thank you! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:30 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats http://catsinternational.org/articles/housesoiling/unabridged_litterbox_ 1.html http://catsinternational.org/articles/housesoiling/unabridged_litterbox_ 2.html for those few of you who don't know already, catsinternational.org is a great resource for all sorts of behavioral questions -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 hr IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor hr This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats
um, i was TERRIFIED of cats, and thought i hated the little beasts til one of my shelties brought one home back in '75. after the current dogs in the family at that time passed on, i haven't had one since. cats, well, we KNOW that's another story! (people who knew me in the first 26 years of my life, when i adored dogs and hated cats can hardly believe where my life has gone!) so there's hope for your sister yet! (even my mother, who REALLY hated and was afraid of them said, on the last day of a week-long visit where she slept in a room that was screened off, well, i can see how they'd sort of grow on you) MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: For Michelle UK: toilet training help needed for adult cats + enzyme Q
actually Kerry, I just spoke with Anti-Icky Poo and they are negotiating with Pets @ Home (British pet stores) and it should be available there in 3-4 weeks. If you give me this gal's email, I will send it to Richard, the guy at Anti-Icky Poo and he'll give it to Ken, the guy at Pets @ Home and Ken can contact her when he has product:)do I rock or what?"MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent.A thought---these brand names won't be available in UK---Michelle--do you happen to know ofa UK brandthat works really well? Or, does anyone know the effective ingredient to look foron the packaging? Hopefully the ingred names are the same in both countries.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:13 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats Thanks SO much Barb. This is perfect! The person sounds like a real genuine cat person, soI feel sure that she will follow your instructions. (As we know, a lot of folks would just think, "I don't think so", and take the cats off to the nearest shelter/pound.)I'm going to pushAgto putthe whole Q A in her column (as well as responding to the reader directly which she always does)---maybe it will save some cats' lives. (Isn't this the number one reason catsend up gettingeuthanized?)What's "nbsp" by the way?!Kerry-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly.If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't seem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter.I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere.! nbsp; "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to! be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful.If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treattheplanking underneath?By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedomtogo out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!!! Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated,-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugsSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Sigh...Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was reallyupset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and toldhim how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he was comfortable again he let me come back and pet andcuddle with him and he purred. I talked it over with him but I don't think he'll be receptive to the idea everagain. lol. Are they more receptive to shots than syring
Re: For Michelle UK: toilet training help needed for adult cats + enzyme Q
and in the meantime - the type of cleaner needed is a live bacterial enzyme solution - these little guys are what eat organic stinky stuff. Am now going to check w/LiquiZyme:)Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:actually Kerry, I just spoke with Anti-Icky Poo and they are negotiating with Pets @ Home (British pet stores) and it should be available there in 3-4 weeks. If you give me this gal's email, I will send it to Richard, the guy at Anti-Icky Poo and he'll give it to Ken, the guy at Pets @ Home and Ken can contact her when he has product:)do I rock or what?"MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent.A thought---these brand names won't be available in UK---Michelle--do you happen to know ofa UK brandthat works really well? Or, does anyone know the effective ingredient to look foron the packaging? Hopefully the ingred names are the same in both countries.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:13 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats Thanks SO much Barb. This is perfect! The person sounds like a real genuine cat person, soI feel sure that she will follow your instructions. (As we know, a lot of folks would just think, "I don't think so", and take the cats off to the nearest shelter/pound.)I'm going to pushAgto putthe whole Q A in her column (as well as responding to the reader directly which she always does)---maybe it will save some cats' lives. (Isn't this the number one reason catsend up gettingeuthanized?)What's "nbsp" by the way?!Kerry-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly.If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't seem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter.I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere.! nbsp; "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the cats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to! be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviourist, we would be very grateful.If in the end we have to change the carpet, should we then seal or treattheplanking underneath?By the way, we live on the edge of Dartmoor they have complete freedomtogo out, but choose not to!! Little beasts!!! Any help or ideas will be gratefully appreciated,-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of veggiepugsSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:53 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Sigh...Thank you everyone for your replies to my cries! lol. I was reallyupset. I'm so upset that he's sick and doesn't feel well, but won't take the pill. I tried explaining it to him, and toldhim how sorry I was...he ran away a few times and then when he w
RE: For Michelle UK: toilet training help needed for adult cats +enzyme Q
Title: Message Barb: You Rock!!! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:11 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: For Michelle UK: toilet training help needed for adult cats +enzyme Q and in the meantime - the type of cleaner needed is a live bacterial enzyme solution - these little guys are what eat organic stinky stuff. Am now going to check w/LiquiZyme:)Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually Kerry, I just spoke with Anti-Icky Poo and they are negotiating with Pets @ Home (British pet stores) and it should be available there in 3-4 weeks. If you give me this gal's email, I will send it to Richard, the guy at Anti-Icky Poo and he'll give it to Ken, the guy at Pets @ Home and Ken can contact her when he has product:) do I rock or what?"MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. A thought---these brand names won't be available in UK---Michelle--do you happen to know ofa UK brandthat works really well? Or, does anyone know the effective ingredient to look foron the packaging? Hopefully the ingred names are the same in both countries. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:13 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: toilet training help needed for adult cats Thanks SO much Barb. This is perfect! The person sounds like a real genuine cat person, soI feel sure that she will follow your instructions. (As we know, a lot of folks would just think, "I don't think so", and take the cats off to the nearest shelter/pound.) I'm going to pushAgto putthe whole Q A in her column (as well as respondi! ng to the reader directly which she always does)---maybe it will save some cats' lives. (Isn't this the number one reason catsend up gettingeuthanized?) What's "nbsp" by the way?! Kerry -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb MoermondSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: toilet training help needed for adult cats First off, the only thing that works on the odor is aliquidenzyme cleaner. Anti-Icky Poo and Liqui-Zyme are both excellent. The area in question must also be completely saturated with the cleaner in order for it to work properly. If at all possible, you shouldconfine them to a smaller space until they learn about the boxes and have them out of that space only when being supervised.Putlitter boxes in their favorite spot(s) and use some old rags/towels instead of litter, since they don't s! eem to connect litter to potty. When they do their businessin the box, praise them and give them a treat. Once they get accustomed to using the box for their business, slowly start switching over to litter. I'm doing something like this at the moment because Smoky has just gotten over his 2nd bout of interstitial cystitis and he thinks it's OK to tinkle anywhere.! nbsp; "MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi allI just got this email from my sister -- she writes a column for theLondon Times, does not have cats, and she just got this Q from one ofher readers -- my sister knows all about you wonderful guys so naturallyis counting on me to supply the answer! The reader/cat owner sounds areal cat lover :) so it would be great if she/the c! ats could find ananswer that was sure to work. Is there such a thing? If anyone has anyideas that they think would work better than those the reader has triedalready (see below) please let me know. Thanks in advance! KerryDear AggieWe have taken in 4 (adult) rescue cats, who it seems were never properlytoilet trained. Although they have been with us for a few years now, wedon't seem to! be able to change their habits.They have a favourite (big) patch of deep pile carpet which we try toclean,but it keeps on smelling - please, please...any ideas would be welcomed.We have tried:1) talking to the vets researching whether they are stressed whetherwecan re-train them2) hiring a steam cleaner, but they could still smell the urine Ipresume they re-fouled it almost immediately3) we have had a local carpet cleaning firm in, still no joyWe are softie animal lovers know ! that it is not their fault, but it isreally getting us down, so if you have any cleaning tips or contactdetailsof a cat behaviour
Re: help needed--problem with subQ
I've had this problem too. It's annoying. I've tried marking the bag with magic marker, and shortening the line so that I can stand at eye level with the bag and put the cat up on a table... tBONNIE J KALMBACH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kerry,There are different kinds of fluid bags, I know because I go to two different vets and get fluids from both (one is the vet school because I see a specialist there).I suggest calling your vet's office and talk to a tech. On Fu's bag, which I can see from here, there is a sort of rubber stopper at the bottom through which I inject air; other bags have a little spout like projections covered with rubber through which you can put a needle. Your vet techs can also tell you how to deal with fluids bags where the sides stick together and make it difficult to see how much you've given. I've been doing fluids for several cats for years - sometime if I can't see the fluid line, I'll just judge by how fast the fluid is going in and then I'll decide whether to do two or three minutes. I try this before I inject air into the bag.As for the old Ringer bags you mentioned in your other post, remember to check the expiration date. And after a bag has been opened, you only want to use it for no more than 10-14 days.Best wishes to you and Pookie,Bonniewww.elephants.com- Original Message -From: Kerry MacKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2005 0:25 amSubject: Re: help needed--problem with subQTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Thanks Bonnie---which bit is the medicine port--is it the hole at the bottom of the bag (once the bag's unsealed) that you put the "hose" in? Do i take the hose back out to put the air in--won't the fluid pour out then? Oh dear! Kerry - Original Message - From: "BONNIE J KALMBACH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <FELVTALK@FELINELEUKEMIA.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: help needed--problem with subQKerry, This is what the vet techs who work for my vet do. They get a clean syringe and put a needle on the end. Then they inject air into the bag via the medicine port. As a nurse on the CRF list objected to this, thinking of humans no doubt, I asked the vet school pharmacist who she said it was OK as the fluids were just going under the skin. But I would just inject one syringe full of air into the bag if thats enough to help you see the water line. If you have to do it a second time, I'd use a new needle. If the syringe has been used before, I'd wash it thoroughly and rinse with very hot water. Does this help? Bonnie in WI www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:48 pm Subject: help needed--problem with subQHi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've neverstarted a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
Re: help needed--problem with subQ
Kerry, There are different kinds of fluid bags, I know because I go to two different vets and get fluids from both (one is the vet school because I see a specialist there). I suggest calling your vet's office and talk to a tech. On Fu's bag, which I can see from here, there is a sort of rubber stopper at the bottom through which I inject air; other bags have a little spout like projections covered with rubber through which you can put a needle. Your vet techs can also tell you how to deal with fluids bags where the sides stick together and make it difficult to see how much you've given. I've been doing fluids for several cats for years - sometime if I can't see the fluid line, I'll just judge by how fast the fluid is going in and then I'll decide whether to do two or three minutes. I try this before I inject air into the bag. As for the old Ringer bags you mentioned in your other post, remember to check the expiration date. And after a bag has been opened, you only want to use it for no more than 10-14 days. Best wishes to you and Pookie, Bonnie www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2005 0:25 am Subject: Re: help needed--problem with subQ To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Thanks Bonnie---which bit is the medicine port--is it the hole at the bottom of the bag (once the bag's unsealed) that you put the hose in? Do i take the hose back out to put the air in--won't the fluid pour out then? Oh dear! Kerry - Original Message - From: BONNIE J KALMBACH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: help needed--problem with subQ Kerry, This is what the vet techs who work for my vet do. They get a clean syringe and put a needle on the end. Then they inject air into the bag via the medicine port. As a nurse on the CRF list objected to this, thinking of humans no doubt, I asked the vet school pharmacist who she said it was OK as the fluids were just going under the skin. But I would just inject one syringe full of air into the bag if thats enough to help you see the water line. If you have to do it a second time, I'd use a new needle. If the syringe has been used before, I'd wash it thoroughly and rinse with very hot water. Does this help? Bonnie in WI www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:48 pm Subject: help needed--problem with subQ Hi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've neverstarted a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
help needed--problem with subQ
Hi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've never started a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
Re: help needed--problem with subQ
Kerry, This is what the vet techs who work for my vet do. They get a clean syringe and put a needle on the end. Then they inject air into the bag via the medicine port. As a nurse on the CRF list objected to this, thinking of humans no doubt, I asked the vet school pharmacist who she said it was OK as the fluids were just going under the skin. But I would just inject one syringe full of air into the bag if thats enough to help you see the water line. If you have to do it a second time, I'd use a new needle. If the syringe has been used before, I'd wash it thoroughly and rinse with very hot water. Does this help? Bonnie in WI www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:48 pm Subject: help needed--problem with subQ Hi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've neverstarted a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
Re: help needed--problem with subQ for Pookie
Another question-- i have a spare unused couple of Ringer's bags that i bought last year. I tried to fit one up just now (I can see the fluid level on these) but there's no fluid coming out when I unlock it---obviously I'm doing something wrong. Any idea what I need to do to get this bag working for me? I'm pretty new to this---now i wish I'd insisted the shelter tech show me how to fit up a new bag from scratch. Thanks for any info! Kerry - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:48 PM Subject: help needed--problem with subQ Hi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've never started a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
Re: help needed--problem with subQ
Thanks Bonnie---which bit is the medicine port--is it the hole at the bottom of the bag (once the bag's unsealed) that you put the hose in? Do i take the hose back out to put the air in--won't the fluid pour out then? Oh dear! Kerry - Original Message - From: BONNIE J KALMBACH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: help needed--problem with subQ Kerry, This is what the vet techs who work for my vet do. They get a clean syringe and put a needle on the end. Then they inject air into the bag via the medicine port. As a nurse on the CRF list objected to this, thinking of humans no doubt, I asked the vet school pharmacist who she said it was OK as the fluids were just going under the skin. But I would just inject one syringe full of air into the bag if thats enough to help you see the water line. If you have to do it a second time, I'd use a new needle. If the syringe has been used before, I'd wash it thoroughly and rinse with very hot water. Does this help? Bonnie in WI www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:48 pm Subject: help needed--problem with subQ Hi all I've just started a new bag to give Pookie his fluids--and I can't tell on this bag where the discernible water level is! I actually let some go down the sink in an effort to find the level and that didn't work. I've neverstarted a new bag before (I'm still fumbling my way around subQs) and I can't believe this is happening. Luckily Pookie seems ok, but i need to figure out fast what to do. Has anyone come across this--any idea how to fix?! Kerry
help needed in New Orleans
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:44:44 -0400 From: Jane Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help Jane!!! Hi everyone! This is Mark writing to you from Jane's email. I just spoke with her, and received an update on the activities in New Orleans. The state Vet has advised that they are no longer to accept anymore animals at the Lamar Dixon Expo center. To combat this recent decision, Jane has found another location. However, in the last hour, there is a problem with that center. Jane is desperate for a new location. A farm, barn, warehouse or other location that can be set up to house rescued animals. The rescue effort is not done! They are still rescuing about 100 animals from homes every day. The ones that they are finding dead, did not die from the hurricane, but are dead from starvation/dehydration. They've been found in carriers, and curled up on their people's beds. The clock is still ticking! So please, if you have a source for a location, please respond ASAP. As for help, they are still in need of people to come to New Orleans to perform various task. Yes they still need those who can rescue and feed, but they also need those who can do shelter work, administration work, check in animals, drive them to shelters, etc, etc. Lamar Dixon is still housing the volunteers, just not taking in any animals. Please go down ASAP. New volunteers are to meet at 9 pm between barns 12 for orientation/direction. They meet again at 5:30 am to get going and to be briefed on the days activities. Please contact me and I will get a message to Jane. Thanks for your help! Mark P.S. For those who have extensive email list/web sites, please post this as soon as you can. Thanks! P.S.S. The national groups have pulled out of New Orleans as per orders of the state vet, Jane is operating the rescue efforts on her own with the help of the volunteers. Please help! P.S.S.S. She just called me to advise that they need Vets as well.
