Re: [hlds] ST3Gaming.com using 100mbit connection to DoS rival servers

[Blood Letter]

Uh, null routing is simply a routing rule that indicates that packet should be 
dropped without any further processing.

The suggestion was to  just null route the source and enjoy the weekend.
You can't do it at the ISP level unless you talk to your ISP.


 From: dlin...@fragonline.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 14:28:56 -0600
 Subject: Re: [hlds] ST3Gaming.com using 100mbit connectionto  DoS 
 rival   servers
 
 Seriously?  Do you not know what null routing is?  It's exactly what you
 said later in your email.  Your bandwidth provider routes that source
 straight to the nowhere.  Not sure why you think it's done on the server.  
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter
 Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 2:08 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] ST3Gaming.com using 100mbit connection to DoS rival
 servers
 
 
 Uh, because the packets come over the wire and your NIC has to handle them
 all regardless of HOW you handle them?
 
 You can NOT solve a DoS attack through ANY use of firewalling or routing at
 the target end.
 You MUST cut the attack off as close to the source as possible.
 
 An attack like the one described here is simple enough to fend off because
 it's coming from a single source over a relatively low bandwidth pipe.
 Your ISP should be able to block it at their border routers and the constant
 knocking shouldn't put any load on their equipment.
 If it continues, and if they get around to it, they can then report the
 activity to their peering partners (other ISPs) to get them to block the
 traffic at their end.  If the behavior persists, this continues until
 eventually the source is cut off.
 
 A distributed attack is much harder to cut off, because it has many sources.
 A distributed attack can bring down major connections.
 
 
 
  From: dlin...@fragonline.net
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:43:57 -0600
  Subject: Re: [hlds] ST3Gaming.com using 100mbit connection to DoS
 rival servers
  
  Why not just null route the source and enjoy the weekend?
 
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Re: [hlds] l4d2 - did I miss something in the config?

[Blood Letter]

This is the same problem I had back at launch.
The only solution I've found was to have someone OUTSIDE my lan connect to 
the game.

The server is not properly reserving the lobby when you try to connect to it 
from inside the lan.

If your server is on 192.168.0.9, you have to reserve the lobby from OUTSIDE 
the 192.168 subnet.
In my case, I had to have a friend (on the internet) join the server, (making a 
valid lobby reservation), then I could join the existing lobby no problem.


I believe you may be able to get around it another way - open up the console 
and do a
connect IP
command.

Put your public IP (not your 192.168 IP) in the connect command.
I don't remember if I tested this or not.
You might as well test the connect command with both your public IP and the 
192.168 IP.


 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:08:45 +0200
 From: i...@ics-base.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] l4d2 - did I miss something in the config?
 
 Being in the same steamgroup isn't a requirement anymore with L4D2. I've 
 hosted a lobby multiple times with random folks and i have settings set 
 that i get the steamgroup exclusive servers whenever i search a server 
 (since i know they work ok and are always free). The other people who 
 aren't in the steamgroup of my servers, end up there too.
 
 -ics
 
 Christoffer Pedersen kirjoitti:
  And all of you are in that group?
 
  On 28/12/2009, at 14.43, Rick Payton r...@mai-hawaii.com wrote:
 

  So We finally got L4D2 tonight, and I tried setting up a steamgroup
  exclusive server for me and my kids to play on. Whenever I try to  
  join,
  it says the session is no longer available. My server.cfg is all of 4
  lines - hostname, rcon_password, sv_steamgroup, and
  sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1.
 
 
 
  Server starts up fine - here's the startup command I'm using: -console
  +log on -game left4dead2 +map c1m1_hotel -port 27015 +ip 192.168.1.5
 
 
 
  Pure vanilla server. Is the NAT stuff playing hell with Steamgroup
  exclusivity like it did in L4D, or did I miss something?
 
 
 
  --mauirixxx
 
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Re: [hlds] l4d2 - did I miss something in the config?

[Blood Letter]

mm_dedicated_force_servers did not fix it.  I tried it already.
The same problem did not exist in L4D.


 From: richard@gmail.com
 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:12:31 -0500
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] l4d2 - did I miss something in the config?
 
 If you want to be the lobby leader and bring a lobby, including you, into
 the server behind your NAT, use:
 
 mm_dedicated_force_servers externalip:port|internalip:port
 
 You'll have to use this before creating the lobby as the console is no
 longer available while in a lobby.
 
 If you're just trying to connect to it without using a lobby, then you'll
 also have to add:
 
 sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0
 
 to your config.
 
 -Richard Eid
 
 
 On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Blood Letter
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
 
  This is the same problem I had back at launch.
  The only solution I've found was to have someone OUTSIDE my lan connect
  to the game.
 
  The server is not properly reserving the lobby when you try to connect to
  it from inside the lan.
 
  If your server is on 192.168.0.9, you have to reserve the lobby from
  OUTSIDE the 192.168 subnet.
  In my case, I had to have a friend (on the internet) join the server,
  (making a valid lobby reservation), then I could join the existing lobby no
  problem.
 
 
  I believe you may be able to get around it another way - open up the
  console and do a
  connect IP
  command.
 
  Put your public IP (not your 192.168 IP) in the connect command.
  I don't remember if I tested this or not.
  You might as well test the connect command with both your public IP and the
  192.168 IP.
 
 
   Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:08:45 +0200
   From: i...@ics-base.net
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] l4d2 - did I miss something in the config?
  
   Being in the same steamgroup isn't a requirement anymore with L4D2. I've
   hosted a lobby multiple times with random folks and i have settings set
   that i get the steamgroup exclusive servers whenever i search a server
   (since i know they work ok and are always free). The other people who
   aren't in the steamgroup of my servers, end up there too.
  
   -ics
  
   Christoffer Pedersen kirjoitti:
And all of you are in that group?
   
On 28/12/2009, at 14.43, Rick Payton r...@mai-hawaii.com wrote:
   
   
So We finally got L4D2 tonight, and I tried setting up a steamgroup
exclusive server for me and my kids to play on. Whenever I try to
join,
it says the session is no longer available. My server.cfg is all of 4
lines - hostname, rcon_password, sv_steamgroup, and
sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1.
   
   
   
Server starts up fine - here's the startup command I'm using: -console
+log on -game left4dead2 +map c1m1_hotel -port 27015 +ip 192.168.1.5
   
   
   
Pure vanilla server. Is the NAT stuff playing hell with Steamgroup
exclusivity like it did in L4D, or did I miss something?
   
   
   
--mauirixxx
   
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Re: [hlds] Help with Multiple IPs SRCDS

[Blood Letter]

Redirect all traffic at the NIC level?

 From: jeffsu...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:07:09 -0800
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] Help with Multiple IPs  SRCDS
 
 Okay, so--
 
 We have to move IPs for our gameserver soon, but as of now we have access to
 both the old and new IPs in order to make it easier to transition the
 players to the new address. The plan was to have the server accessible from
 both the new and old IPs, and then eventulaly drop off the old IP once we
 were ready. However, srcds doesn't seem to want to let me do that. It's one
 IP or the other, so far.
 
 When I have no +IP specified, it uses the new IP, and the old IP won't
 function. If I specify the old IP, the old IP works, but the new one
 doesn't. Lastly, if I set it to +ip 0.0.0.0, the new IP works and the old
 one won't. I got the idea for the 0.0.0.0 from near the bottom of
 http://forums.srcds.com/viewpost/63761#pid63761. I need people to be able to
 access it both ways for a bit, so we can retain as much of our playerbase as
 possible, but it's going to be really difficult if I can't have both working
 as described.
 
 Anyone have any ideas or anything?
 
 Thanks,
 Jeff // Atreus
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Re: [hlds] TF2 update issue

[Blood Letter]

 This isn't rocket science.

Considering we're talking about the gunboats and the scottish resistance...

Anyway, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it's Beetle's Mod causing the 
instability.
I always disable it until he updates a couple of times after every major TF2 
update.

Though the other problems you mention just sound weird.
I'd do an update with verifyall.
  
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Re: [hlds] Autoupdate for SRCDS Win32?

[Blood Letter]

The autoupdate flag only works for the linux server.

To autoupdate Windows servers, you can create a batch file that updates the 
server, then starts the server in a new command line window.
Then, have the batch file return to the update line.

ECHO OFF

:UPDATE
Echo Updating
[your update command goes here]

:START
ECHO Starting Server
start /wait [your server startup command goes here]

GOTO UPDATE

When you want to update, just give the server the exit command.
The batch file will then hit the GOTO line and repeat.

You can schedule a shutdown whenever the server has been idle for a while, with 
a couple different plugins.

So in theory, people are playing on your server, update is released, server 
empties out after they finish, server sits idle for a little bit, server exits, 
updates, and restarts.


 From: email4for...@mezelf.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:36:38 +0100
 Subject: [hlds] Autoupdate for SRCDS Win32?
 
 For the past 2 weeks I have found myself having to manually update my 2 L4D2
 servers about 9 times.
 
 The sad downside is that I can only see that it is 'out-of-date' (via
 console) after I manually change the map as well as not showing up in Group
 Servers.
 
  
 
 Is there a working option to have SRCDS autoupdate?
 
 At the moment it takes about half an hour per day to keep them updated and
 like most other people, I have other things to spend time on as well.
 
  
 
 MeZelf
 
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Re: [hlds] Profanity in your server

[Blood Letter]

Msleeper shits up the list again.
  
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available

[Blood Letter]

There is no reason FAT32 would be less secure than NTFS.

The built-in security permissions of NTFS are pointless, and the OS can ignore 
them at any time.
The only security NTFS has is encryption, which no one uses, is weak compared 
to non-file system-based methods, and in general is a pointless overhead.

NTFS is bloated and has lots of overhead.

FAT32 is great, but the limitations on depth, file size, and number of files 
are a problem.
Fragmentation and corruption are also a problem.

This is why we have FAT64 (exFAT).

 Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 10:05:21 -0800
 From: mi...@macawusa.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
 
 I always convert fat32 to NTFS on portable drives. I transfer or backup files 
 that are over 4GB all the time, can't do that with a fat32. Fat32 fragments 
 much more than NTFS, has many other features missing. No Windows server 
 should be running on a fat32 partition for security reasons alone, not even 
 counting on performance issues. For OS's I only run windows system and I no 
 longer support anything older than 2000 so I have no compatibility problems. 
 FAT is a very old spec, maybe it is time to get into the new stuff :)
 
 Mike 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb
 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:05 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
 
 If you are running steam off a portable drive, it is most likely
 fat32.  Also, people running multiple operating systems still
 generally will have at least one fat32 partition for compatibility
 reasons.
 
 On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Mike Fleener mi...@macawusa.com wrote:
  I am a real world certified tech and there is no reason for using fat32
  on a windows systems and many reasons for using NTFS.
 
  Mike
  Macaw Enterprises
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ook
  Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:55 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
 
  Because ntfs isn't the only file system in the world? Because many of us
 
  keep some partitions fat32 because there is no reason to use ntfs?
  Because
  we haven't got around to it? It may offend the purist, but out there in
  the
  real world a lot of people use fat32 for a variety of reasons.
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jonah Hirsch crazydog...@gmail.com
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
 
 
  My thoughts exactly. But because that was fixed, SOMEONE is using
  FAT32.
  The
  question is: why?
 
  Jonah Hirsch
  ---
 
 
  On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:54 PM, msleeper
  mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.comwrote:
 
  If you are using a computer that still has a FAT32 partition, you
  deserve to have your games crash.
 
 
  On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 18:50 -0800, Ook wrote:
   I'm guessing the crash on startup fix is for the client, not the
   server?
  My
   server has always run fine on fat32, but there is NTFS WTF VALVE?
  being
   screamed from one side of steam support to the other over what
  happened
  to
   the client a week or so ago :)
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; 'Half-Lifededicated Linux
  server
  mailing
   list' hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com;
   hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com
   Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:32 PM
   Subject: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
  
  
   A required update for Left 4 Dead 2 is now available.  Please run
   hldsupdatetool to receive the update.  The specific changes
  include:
   
- Fixed crash on startup when using FAT32 file system
- Fixed in-game chat input where the local encoding differs from
  the
  input
language's
- Fixed bug where Survivor Bots would sometimes become
  unresponsive
in
Scavenge games
- Updated subtitle localization files for Hungarian, Portuguese,
  Romanian
and Russian
- Fixed exploit that allowed players on the Infected team to
  spawn
directly next to the Survivors
   
Jason
   
   
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available

[Blood Letter]

It doesn't belong here, nor does it have anything to do with security.

I will continue to correct some flat out incorrect information though.

FAT32 corruption has nothing to do with the drivers implementing it - it's a 
fundamental weakness of a file allocation table based file system.  99% of the 
time corruption happens when you bork an operation, usually due to a power 
outage or system crash during a write.  When that happens, you have to scan and 
repair.

NTFS is more resilient to this kind of damage because of the way file mappings 
are maintained.

For more resiliency, we use journaling or transaction based file systems.

And yes, certifications are useless.

 Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 18:13:03 -0500
 From: grossk...@wolfservers.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available
 
 Does this conversation really belong in the HLDS mailing list? Seems liek it
 would be more appropriate for a computer security mailing list.
 
 On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Matt Stanton 
 inflatablesoulm...@brothersofchaos.com wrote:
 
  The bottom line is that there are a million ways to make any server
  insecure, and a million more ways to make a windows server insecure.
  ntfs will help with security if and only if your users are set up with
  only the permissions they should have, and only if your server is not
 
 
 *deleted other stuff*
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Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available

[Blood Letter]

Yup.  Can you try opening the console and doing the ol' connect IP:port ?

Try with your lan IP (should fail), then try with your wan IP (might work).

I've noticed that when I simply click on the server from my steam group list, 
it tries to connect via the lan ip (and fails).
If I try to connect to an existing lobby, it works.  Probably because 
connecting to a lobby results in feeding a connect ip:port statement with the 
wan ip, not the lan ip.

Once this is figured out / patched / whatever, I need to figure out how to get 
the search key working with it.
I don't like having to join the server (when I can) and then call a vote / rcon 
to switch game type, map, and difficulty.
I'd much rather prefer to join/create a lobby, let it fill up, and throw the 
search key in to get to my server.  (Valve also needs to fix the bug where youc 
an't bring up the console while in the lobby).

When I try this now, all I get lots of waiting then bam, I'm running a local 
server.  There's no popup message asking if you would like to run a local 
server (like there was in L4D).



 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:40:47 +0800
 From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 The issue seems to have something to do with lobby reservation. I don't 
 know if you see this too, but if you create a lobby on the NAT side of 
 things, the server will complain about bogus payload data, and then show 
 the reservation. I can confirm that reserving the lobby from outside the 
 NAT seems to be fine.
 
 It's almost as if the NAT client reserves the lobby, then the server 
 accepts, then ignores it...
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  Looks like having someone else join the server (from outside the lan) works 
  fine.
  Then I can join just fine.
 
  Weird...
 

  From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:51:58 -0800
  Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 
  Really?  No one else has this issue?
 
  Can someone with a working config behind a nat post their server.cfg and 
  command line?
 
  
  From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:26:47 -0800
  Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 
  Zero problems when running with sv_lan 1.
 

  Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:05:37 +0800
  From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
  Yes, on a Linux server. Are you running it behind a NAT firewall? We 
  were told that using mm_dedicated_force_servers public|private would 
  fix this, but it doesn't. Test this for me, if you start with +sv_lan 1 
  does it then work flawlessly?
 
  Blood Letter wrote:
  
  Anyone getting this?
 
  Windows.
 
  --command line--
  srcds.exe -console -game left4dead2 -maxplayers 8 -ip 192.168.1.11 
  -port 27015 -nohltv +sv_lan 0 +map c1m1_hotel
 
  --server.cfg--
  hostname Love Me Sexy
  rcon_password 
  password
  sv_steamgroup 12345
  sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1
  sv_search_key searchkey
 
  Forwarding pots 27000-27015 to 192.168.1.11 .
 
  ??

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Re: [hlds] Server Key

[Blood Letter]

Uh, search key doesn't work for me, and force dedicated server requires that I 
can actually connect to the server.

I currently can not start a lobby and join the lobby to my server.
I currently can not join my server directly from the steam group server list.

I have to have someone outside of my lan join the server from the steam group 
list.
Then and only then am I able to join the server (by joining their lobby 
explicitly or implicitly through the steam group server list).

Joining the server normally results in a session no longer valid error when 
it attempts to connect.
Using a search key results in absolutely nothing - the server is never found, 
and I never attempt to connect.

And why would I set a default search key or force dedicated servers list?
My server is public and I would only want to use it if it's free - otherwise 
I'm content joining whatever server I'm matched with (when I'm lobby leader).

I can bind shortcuts.  I can set launch options.  I can get on my server which 
isn't functioning as it should.
But I should have the direct option of choosing a server (mine and my 
favorites) as well as the option of being matched to one.

It's not rocket science.  I shouldn't have to jump through ANY hoops to:

Open the game, get directly (no lobby screen) to my server or a favorite 
server, if available.
Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to use my server or a favorite server, if 
available.
Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to match me to an available server.


 From: mu...@anbservers.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:54:12 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 Add +sv_search_key key to launch options 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Johan Andersson
 Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:04 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 bind F8 mm_dedicated_force_servers IPADRESS
 
 Press F8 before starting the search for a server.
 
 Couldn't be any easier tbh.
 
 --
 From: Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
 Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:41 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 
  Terrible solution.
  Nothing bugs me more than being a member of a bunch of pointless steam 
  groups.
  (Well, automagically being joined to random steam groups for no reaosn 
  bugs me a lot too.)
 
  I don't want that crap cluttering up my friends list.
  I don't want shitty updates about your steam group has an event in 5 
  minutes! popping up all the time.
 
  I shouldn't have to put up with that crap to maintain a list of servers I 
  like.
  This is what server favorites was for.
 
  Would love to see the following:
 
  - An extra button on the UI - Favorite Servers
  - A Favorite Servers page which lists servers you have tagged as 
  favorite, their ping, map, player count, game mode, and lobby status.
  - Ability to select a server from the list and remove it from your 
  favorites or connect to it (if lobby restrictions and player count allow).
  - A UI button to add server to favorites.  Show it on the server info 
  popup in game.
 
  I'm not even asking for a full server browser - just a favorite's list.
 
 
 
  From: matthew.j.gottl...@gmail.com
  Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:32:03 -0600
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
  Make a steam group called Joebob's L4D Servers and invite everyone.
 
 
  On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:25 PM, shoskins73 shoskin...@gmail.com wrote:
   I'm assuming that only works if I'm the Lobby Leader?  What happens if 
   I'm
   in someone elses Lobby and they start the game, will it take me to my 
   server
   while everyone else goes to another server?
  
   Long story short, I had a server for the first 2 months L4D was out and
   stopped using it as it was such a PITA to get a Lobby connected to it 
   (at
   that time there was no sv_search_key function at all.  This whole setup
 
   for
   using specific servers is crap, especially when not everyone on your 
   friends
   list is in any one particular Steam Group.
  
  
  
   On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jake Skenna halflife...@gmail.com 
   wrote:
  
   I'd put the command in an autoexec.cfg so you can get your own server 
   every
   time without having to enter it once you get in game.
  
  
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Re: [hlds] Server Key

[Blood Letter]

I've already posted about it, and someone else has the same issue.
I have the most basic of configs.  It should work, and I have run many servers 
in the past with no issue.

I don't get what you don't understand - these should all be GUI options - not 
things I have to set in the console (which is inaccessible while in a lobby) or 
bind to shortcut keys or to the startup options.

The issues I'm having with getting the server to properly accept my lobby 
reservation are separate.

 From: mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:34:44 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 This seems like a lot of user error then since all of that stuff works
 for everyone else, or at least works as much as it is supposed to. Why
 doesn't search key work for you? You should investigate that. Why can't
 you actually connect to the server? That also seems like something
 that should be important to figure out.
 
 The search key and force dedicated servers lets you, as lobby leader,
 specify what servers you want to preference to. If the servers are full
 then you'll go to another server, just like you normally would.
 
 I don't get what you're not understanding. I should have the direct
 option of choosing a server (mine and my favorites) as well as the
 option of being matched to one. That's exactly what search key and/or
 force dedicated servers does. You specify a server to use, and if it is
 free then you go to it. Your little list of complains all work with
 minimal effort, except the first one which doesn't really make sense
 with the type of environment in L4D/L4D2.
 
 This isn't TF2 or CSS, you can't just join any server and start playing.
 If you want to do that, then remove your server from the lobby system
 and connect directly via IP. If you want to use a lobby, then use some
 combination of the many server CVARs to make it possible. You can't have
 it both ways, they conflict how eachother work.
 
 
 On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:24 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  Uh, search key doesn't work for me, and force dedicated server requires 
  that I can actually connect to the server.
  
  I currently can not start a lobby and join the lobby to my server.
  I currently can not join my server directly from the steam group server 
  list.
  
  I have to have someone outside of my lan join the server from the steam 
  group list.
  Then and only then am I able to join the server (by joining their lobby 
  explicitly or implicitly through the steam group server list).
  
  Joining the server normally results in a session no longer valid error 
  when it attempts to connect.
  Using a search key results in absolutely nothing - the server is never 
  found, and I never attempt to connect.
  
  And why would I set a default search key or force dedicated servers list?
  My server is public and I would only want to use it if it's free - 
  otherwise I'm content joining whatever server I'm matched with (when I'm 
  lobby leader).
  
  I can bind shortcuts.  I can set launch options.  I can get on my server 
  which isn't functioning as it should.
  But I should have the direct option of choosing a server (mine and my 
  favorites) as well as the option of being matched to one.
  
  It's not rocket science.  I shouldn't have to jump through ANY hoops to:
  
  Open the game, get directly (no lobby screen) to my server or a favorite 
  server, if available.
  Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to use my server or a favorite server, 
  if available.
  Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to match me to an available server.
  
  
   From: mu...@anbservers.net
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:54:12 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
   
   Add +sv_search_key key to launch options 
   
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Johan Andersson
   Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:04 PM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
   
   bind F8 mm_dedicated_force_servers IPADRESS
   
   Press F8 before starting the search for a server.
   
   Couldn't be any easier tbh.
   
   --
   From: Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
   Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:41 PM
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
   
   
Terrible solution.
Nothing bugs me more than being a member of a bunch of pointless steam 
groups.
(Well, automagically being joined to random steam groups for no reaosn 
bugs me a lot too.)
   
I don't want that crap cluttering up my friends list.
I don't want shitty updates about your steam group has an event in 5 
minutes! popping up all the time.
   
I shouldn't have to put up with that crap to maintain a list of servers 
I 
like.
This is what server favorites

Re: [hlds] Server Key

[Blood Letter]

And telling me to not complain on this list isn't going to stop me from doing 
it.
What's your point?



 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:44:34 -0600
 From: gulf...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 They should be GUI options, but they aren't.  And complaining on this list
 isn't going to get valve to add it to L4D2.
 
 On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
 
  I've already posted about it, and someone else has the same issue.
  I have the most basic of configs.  It should work, and I have run many
  servers in the past with no issue.
 
  I don't get what you don't understand - these should all be GUI options -
  not things I have to set in the console (which is inaccessible while in a
  lobby) or bind to shortcut keys or to the startup options.
 
  The issues I'm having with getting the server to properly accept my lobby
  reservation are separate.
 
   From: mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:34:44 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
  
   This seems like a lot of user error then since all of that stuff works
   for everyone else, or at least works as much as it is supposed to. Why
   doesn't search key work for you? You should investigate that. Why can't
   you actually connect to the server? That also seems like something
   that should be important to figure out.
  
   The search key and force dedicated servers lets you, as lobby leader,
   specify what servers you want to preference to. If the servers are full
   then you'll go to another server, just like you normally would.
  
   I don't get what you're not understanding. I should have the direct
   option of choosing a server (mine and my favorites) as well as the
   option of being matched to one. That's exactly what search key and/or
   force dedicated servers does. You specify a server to use, and if it is
   free then you go to it. Your little list of complains all work with
   minimal effort, except the first one which doesn't really make sense
   with the type of environment in L4D/L4D2.
  
   This isn't TF2 or CSS, you can't just join any server and start playing.
   If you want to do that, then remove your server from the lobby system
   and connect directly via IP. If you want to use a lobby, then use some
   combination of the many server CVARs to make it possible. You can't have
   it both ways, they conflict how eachother work.
  
  
   On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:24 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
Uh, search key doesn't work for me, and force dedicated server requires
  that I can actually connect to the server.
   
I currently can not start a lobby and join the lobby to my server.
I currently can not join my server directly from the steam group server
  list.
   
I have to have someone outside of my lan join the server from the steam
  group list.
Then and only then am I able to join the server (by joining their lobby
  explicitly or implicitly through the steam group server list).
   
Joining the server normally results in a session no longer valid
  error when it attempts to connect.
Using a search key results in absolutely nothing - the server is never
  found, and I never attempt to connect.
   
And why would I set a default search key or force dedicated servers
  list?
My server is public and I would only want to use it if it's free -
  otherwise I'm content joining whatever server I'm matched with (when I'm
  lobby leader).
   
I can bind shortcuts.  I can set launch options.  I can get on my
  server which isn't functioning as it should.
But I should have the direct option of choosing a server (mine and my
  favorites) as well as the option of being matched to one.
   
It's not rocket science.  I shouldn't have to jump through ANY hoops
  to:
   
Open the game, get directly (no lobby screen) to my server or a
  favorite server, if available.
Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to use my server or a favorite
  server, if available.
Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to match me to an available
  server.
   
   
 From: mu...@anbservers.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:54:12 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key

 Add +sv_search_key key to launch options

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Johan
  Andersson
 Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:04 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key

 bind F8 mm_dedicated_force_servers IPADRESS

 Press F8 before starting the search for a server.

 Couldn't be any easier tbh.

 --
 From: Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
 Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:41 PM
 To: hlds

Re: [hlds] Server Key

[Blood Letter]

Oh shut up, you've been posting your dumb crap here for years, and you're why I 
left.  Yes you, specifically.
I came here for help about my problem, and all of one person has had the 
decency to even respond - luckily it was someone with the same problem.

 From: mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:00:09 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
 
 The point is that you're blowing hot air at a bunch of people that don't
 care. Get a blog or post your whining on steampowered.
 
 
 On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 16:56 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  And telling me to not complain on this list isn't going to stop me from 
  doing it.
  What's your point?
  
  
  
   Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:44:34 -0600
   From: gulf...@gmail.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key
   
   They should be GUI options, but they aren't.  And complaining on this list
   isn't going to get valve to add it to L4D2.
   
   On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Blood Letter 
   bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
   
   
I've already posted about it, and someone else has the same issue.
I have the most basic of configs.  It should work, and I have run many
servers in the past with no issue.
   
I don't get what you don't understand - these should all be GUI options 
-
not things I have to set in the console (which is inaccessible while in 
a
lobby) or bind to shortcut keys or to the startup options.
   
The issues I'm having with getting the server to properly accept my 
lobby
reservation are separate.
   
 From: mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:34:44 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Key

 This seems like a lot of user error then since all of that stuff works
 for everyone else, or at least works as much as it is supposed to. Why
 doesn't search key work for you? You should investigate that. Why 
 can't
 you actually connect to the server? That also seems like something
 that should be important to figure out.

 The search key and force dedicated servers lets you, as lobby leader,
 specify what servers you want to preference to. If the servers are 
 full
 then you'll go to another server, just like you normally would.

 I don't get what you're not understanding. I should have the direct
 option of choosing a server (mine and my favorites) as well as the
 option of being matched to one. That's exactly what search key and/or
 force dedicated servers does. You specify a server to use, and if it 
 is
 free then you go to it. Your little list of complains all work with
 minimal effort, except the first one which doesn't really make sense
 with the type of environment in L4D/L4D2.

 This isn't TF2 or CSS, you can't just join any server and start 
 playing.
 If you want to do that, then remove your server from the lobby system
 and connect directly via IP. If you want to use a lobby, then use some
 combination of the many server CVARs to make it possible. You can't 
 have
 it both ways, they conflict how eachother work.


 On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:24 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  Uh, search key doesn't work for me, and force dedicated server 
  requires
that I can actually connect to the server.
 
  I currently can not start a lobby and join the lobby to my server.
  I currently can not join my server directly from the steam group 
  server
list.
 
  I have to have someone outside of my lan join the server from the 
  steam
group list.
  Then and only then am I able to join the server (by joining their 
  lobby
explicitly or implicitly through the steam group server list).
 
  Joining the server normally results in a session no longer valid
error when it attempts to connect.
  Using a search key results in absolutely nothing - the server is 
  never
found, and I never attempt to connect.
 
  And why would I set a default search key or force dedicated servers
list?
  My server is public and I would only want to use it if it's free -
otherwise I'm content joining whatever server I'm matched with (when I'm
lobby leader).
 
  I can bind shortcuts.  I can set launch options.  I can get on my
server which isn't functioning as it should.
  But I should have the direct option of choosing a server (mine and 
  my
favorites) as well as the option of being matched to one.
 
  It's not rocket science.  I shouldn't have to jump through ANY hoops
to:
 
  Open the game, get directly (no lobby screen) to my server or a
favorite server, if available.
  Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to use my server or a favorite
server, if available.
  Open the game, make a lobby, tell it to match me

Re: [hlds] File download speeds

[Blood Letter]

Not that I know of, unfortunately.
Just about any http redirect will be better than serving through the server - 
just grab some free/cheap hosting.
If you own the box, just throw up a free FTP server on it and point it to the 
same dir as the server itself, and then give it it's own subdomain 
(ftp.serverip).

 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:47:42 +1100
 From: chris_holma...@yahoo.com.au
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] File download speeds
 
 Hey all,
 
 As I'm sure we're all aware, by default SRCDS puts a speed limit on 
 downloads when clients are downloading maps, mods, textures, whatever, 
 from the server when they connect. I'm also sure we're all aware that we 
 can use a HTTP/FTP redirect to allow fast downloads, but I'm curious if 
 there is a way to get faster download speeds without having to set up a 
 mirror - ie, can the artificial speed limit srcds imposes be bypassed 
 by, say, a cvar or sourcemod plugin?
 
 Thanks
 -Chris
 
 
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Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available

[Blood Letter]

Really?  No one else has this issue?

Can someone with a working config behind a nat post their server.cfg and 
command line?

 From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:26:47 -0800
 Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 
 Zero problems when running with sv_lan 1.
 
  Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:05:37 +0800
  From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
  
  Yes, on a Linux server. Are you running it behind a NAT firewall? We 
  were told that using mm_dedicated_force_servers public|private would 
  fix this, but it doesn't. Test this for me, if you start with +sv_lan 1 
  does it then work flawlessly?
  
  Blood Letter wrote:
   Anyone getting this?
  
   Windows.
  
   --command line--
   srcds.exe -console -game left4dead2 -maxplayers 8 -ip 192.168.1.11 -port 
   27015 -nohltv +sv_lan 0 +map c1m1_hotel
  
   --server.cfg--
   hostname Love Me Sexy
   rcon_password 
   password
   sv_steamgroup 12345
   sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1
   sv_search_key searchkey
  
   Forwarding pots 27000-27015 to 192.168.1.11 .
  
   ??
   
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Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available

[Blood Letter]

Looks like having someone else join the server (from outside the lan) works 
fine.
Then I can join just fine.

Weird...

 From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:51:58 -0800
 Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 
 Really?  No one else has this issue?
 
 Can someone with a working config behind a nat post their server.cfg and 
 command line?
 
  From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:26:47 -0800
  Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
  
  
  Zero problems when running with sv_lan 1.
  
   Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:05:37 +0800
   From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
   
   Yes, on a Linux server. Are you running it behind a NAT firewall? We 
   were told that using mm_dedicated_force_servers public|private would 
   fix this, but it doesn't. Test this for me, if you start with +sv_lan 1 
   does it then work flawlessly?
   
   Blood Letter wrote:
Anyone getting this?
   
Windows.
   
--command line--
srcds.exe -console -game left4dead2 -maxplayers 8 -ip 192.168.1.11 
-port 27015 -nohltv +sv_lan 0 +map c1m1_hotel
   
--server.cfg--
hostname Love Me Sexy
rcon_password 
password
sv_steamgroup 12345
sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1
sv_search_key searchkey
   
Forwarding pots 27000-27015 to 192.168.1.11 .
   
??
  
_
Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.
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[hlds] The Session is No Longer Available

[Blood Letter]

Anyone getting this?

Windows.

--command line--
srcds.exe -console -game left4dead2 -maxplayers 8 -ip 192.168.1.11 -port 27015 
-nohltv +sv_lan 0 +map c1m1_hotel

--server.cfg--
hostname Love Me Sexy
rcon_password 
password
sv_steamgroup 12345
sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1
sv_search_key searchkey

Forwarding pots 27000-27015 to 192.168.1.11 .

??
  
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Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available

[Blood Letter]

Zero problems when running with sv_lan 1.

 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:05:37 +0800
 From: clontar...@iinet.net.au
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] The Session is No Longer Available
 
 Yes, on a Linux server. Are you running it behind a NAT firewall? We 
 were told that using mm_dedicated_force_servers public|private would 
 fix this, but it doesn't. Test this for me, if you start with +sv_lan 1 
 does it then work flawlessly?
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  Anyone getting this?
 
  Windows.
 
  --command line--
  srcds.exe -console -game left4dead2 -maxplayers 8 -ip 192.168.1.11 -port 
  27015 -nohltv +sv_lan 0 +map c1m1_hotel
 
  --server.cfg--
  hostname Love Me Sexy
  rcon_password 
  password
  sv_steamgroup 12345
  sv_steamgroup_exclusive 1
  sv_search_key searchkey
 
  Forwarding pots 27000-27015 to 192.168.1.11 .
 
  ??

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Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update

[Blood Letter]

So did this update fix the empty server issue for anyone?
Mine is still bone dry.

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Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update

[Blood Letter]

If it's not fixed today, my server will be shut down.
What the hell is the point?

My server is 100% pure vanilla.
No traffic.

 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:13:08 -0700
 From: mrrjwhe...@yahoo.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update
 
 El oh el... if only we could roll back. The larger 3/11 update was fine and 
 fixed a few things that needed attention. However, the 3/12 update left many 
 of us bone dry as far as seeing any public traffic, the 3/13 update made no 
 difference.
 
 Sent from the barren dessert...
 
  
 
 
 
 
 From: Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:49:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update
 
 We did not update the servers yet, because it is not required. Servers are 
 all full.
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Robert Whelan mrrjwhe...@yahoo.com
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update
 
 
 Same here, The only traffic we're getting is from steam group/search key 
 connects. We don't have setmaster anywhere in our configs either, this was 
 only a band aid required back during the release. It seems 
 sv_steamgroup_exclusive and sv_allow_lobby_connect_only are useless up to 
 and including the last patch. I literally have 1000's of bad challenge 
 attempts to get into our servers
 
 Still no word from valve...
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Admin Bob admin_...@cox.net
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:48:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update
 
 Still empty. Still getting errors:
 A2C_print from 68.142.72.250:2701
 Bad challenge
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Adam Nowacki
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:09 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Client Update
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  So did this update fix the empty server issue for anyone?
  Mine is still bone dry.
 
 Maybe because people want to play on official servers? The search works
 now and will actually fall back to non-official servers thanks to a
 longer search timeout.
 
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Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring

[Blood Letter]

So how long does the average easy achievement take on an achievement map?
Is it less than 15 minutes?

msleeper, get to it - kick and ban after 1st achievement AND 15 minutes.

 From: mikesti...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:08:33 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring
 
 Well I not so sure this is all setup to stop fake-clients... Seems like you
 just need to provide a good experience for the end user.. If you pass off a
 server as full when there is no one in the server this will kill your server
 over time (redirect servers also).  If you use fake clients to add maybe a
 few players to your player count and have a system to turn off your fake
 clients when your server has a low population. So people are not so much
 thinking that they are joining a 'full' server you should still be ok from
 what it looks like.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn .
 Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:26 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring
 
 Nice to see that VALVe finally did something about fake client servers. I
 hope it'll work.
 
 2009/3/13 Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de
 
 
  TF2 is designed to have the best game experience with 24 players. So, the
  game experience changes with more or less players.
 
 
   The maximum number of players in TF2 is 32 and it's the server admin's
   choice, how many slots he wants to have.
   If an admin starts his server with 24 slots, 20 slots, 10 slots or 2
  slots
   instead of 32, he accepts, that less players can score the server up. On
   the
   other side on 32 slot servers there are more connections which give
 minus
   points.
  
   The score is not a result of the server settings, it's a result of
 active
   connected players and when a server can make more people happy (in
 having
   the max slots available), it should get a better score than low slotted
   servers.
  
   I don't want to see 2 slot (or 24) TF2 servers which have the same score
   than my 32 slot server.
  
 
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available

[Blood Letter]

My server two days ago was ranked #31 according to Valve's thingy.
It's been dead since yesterday's update.

I don't think it's an issue of less players.

 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:59:47 +
 From: sidest...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
 
 Ive taken setmaster out - done a verify all, rebooted it twice, and no
 traffic all day :(
 
 On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 
  You might have to wait a bit, I have noticed fewer players playing L4D
  nowadays. Which makes sense considering we've had zero new content and
  no easy way to distribute user content (since server download doesn't
  work).
 
 
  On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 14:55 -0700, Aaron Rapp wrote:
   Msleeper,
  
   You were right. We still had the setmaster in there, so I took it out. I
  ran
   the update on the server, again.
  
   Unfortunately, I'm not getting the original A2C_PRINT issue, but the
   servers are still sitting empty.
  
   Aaron Rapp
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stiehm
   Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:38 PM
   To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
  
   Ok sounds good thank you guys for your input on this.
  
   Kenny Loggins
   ClanAO.com
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
   Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:27 PM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
  
   NIO DEWD WE MUST BLAME TEH PLUGINZ
  
   Running 19 servers here all with MM+SM, they are all getting traffic at
   normal Lobby rates. Make sure you don't have any of that setmaster crap
   in your configs that was posted a few days ago. It worked before this
   patch but it might not now.
  
   Also, make sure you actually updated to the most recent version, version
   number won't change. It wasn't a required update for some reason, but if
   you don't then your shit is still broke.
  
  
   On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 16:20 -0500, Admin Bob wrote:
I don't believe it is sourcemod that is causing this.  I decided to
  delete
and reinstall my server.  I did not install sourcemod, and I'm still
  not
getting any players.
   
Some people claim that their server are still up and running and it's
because they are vanilla, but I've played on sourcemod servers since
  this
has been going on.  It seems to be happening to some, but not all
  servers.
   
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stiehm
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:04 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
   
So what's the deal with sourcemod and L4D? I have about 22 servers that
   are
always full. Have been online since day one and they all site empty
  now?!?
Not even one player in all 22 servers? Did I miss something? Is the
sourcemod tag affecting the ability for the lobby to send me players?
  This
was all working great up till last night and I made no changes
   
Any information would much appreciated and thank you in advance.
   
   
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of TheNob
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:17 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
   
Yes! Some feedback from Valve would be nice :(
   
Some active threads in the steam forum:
   
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821502
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9392051
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9389611
   
   
   
2009/3/13 Robert Whelan mrrjwhe...@yahoo.com
   
 Hell, I'd be happy if they just acknowledge the damn problem.




   
   
   
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Re: [hlds] Urgent fix required for no query response for passworded servers!

[Blood Letter]

Do you have sv_password set to a blank password
Or do you have no sv_password line in your configs?

 From: drunkenf...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:45:17 -0700
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Urgent fix required for no query response for 
 passworded  servers!
 
 It's broken on mine with no password set.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Steven Hartland
 Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:13 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: [hlds] Urgent fix required for no query response for passworded
 servers!
 Importance: High
 
 The update last night broke query responses for servers with
 a password set.
 
 This urgently needs fixing as it means that servers fail up
 checks at GSP and hence get constantly restarted until they
 are determined failed and then shutdown.
 
 Regards
 Steve
 
 
 This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the
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 recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise
 disseminating it or any information contained in it. 
 
 In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please
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 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] [L4D] Server Browser List Custom Tab

[Blood Letter]

Queue addon/configs to clear sv_tags in 3...2...

 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:39:38 +
 From: philipbembri...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] [L4D] Server Browser List Custom Tab
 
 Sourcemod now adds sourcemod to sv_tags, see here:
 http://wiki.alliedmods.net/SourceMod_1.2.0_Release_Notes
 
 2009/3/12 Major NuT mjr...@gmail.com
 
  Curious if anyone knew this, but based on peoples reports of not being on
  the master list, I also encountered same issue.  The recommendation of
  adding the sv_gametypes coop,versus tag was helpful.  SourceMod is placed
  on both servers, 1 being private, other being public.
 
  Both servers ONLY show up on the Custom tab, which I'm not so worried
  about.  I guess the custom comes from having SM though?  I guess this is
  first time I really looked close, but when using sv_search_key -- that also
  shows up in the tags list?  I guess that makes sense, however, I thought it
  would be hidden.
 
  Any one else think this way or am I just bringing up the rear end?
 
  Thanks in advance,
 
  [FLASH] MjrNuT
  Arise from Flames and Ash, Behold Immortality
 
  www.flamesandash.com
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available

[Blood Letter]

Same for me.
Disabled MMSM.

Still no traffic.

Head tilt.  Baroo?

 From: admin_...@cox.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:05:32 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
 
 Even after the update we had last night, I was getting traffic on my server.
 After the update we had today, I haven't had any traffic since.  I don't
 even have sv_search_key set.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
 Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:31 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
 
 Looks like this works for me, my servers are slowly getting traffic. It
 also looks like you guys fixed the AI Bots showing up and possibly
 keeping real players from joining. Great work!
 
 
 On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 13:16 -0700, Jason Ruymen wrote:
  Left 4 Dead has been updated.  This is not required, but certainly
 recommended.  Please run hldsupdatetool to receive it.  The specific changes
 include:
  
  - Fixed sv_search_key appearing in server browser
  - Fixed issue where changing the sv_search_key did not update the master
 correctly
  - Fixed master server issue with Linux fork mode that affected
 availability of Valve dedicated servers
  - Tank melee attack can now hit multiple Survivors in one swing
  
  
  Jason
  
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Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring

[Blood Letter]

Those players go elsewhere, your players will still go to your server.
I highly doubt you'd be on the de-listed end of the spectrum.

I hope server score/rank is never made visible in any way.
We do NOT need another e-peen measurement tool.

 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:40:03 +0100
 From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring
 
 This is utterly shit (sorry for the language).
 
 - Mods: I'm running a few heavily modded TF2 server with many custom 
 MM:S plugins. Although its all listed in server-name AND tags, I see 
 people join, realize the mods, rant in chat and leave. This is going to 
 hurt me and my community
 
 - Custom maps: This will put an end to custom maps completely. Not only 
 the majority of players avoid custom maps, many people connect, wait for 
 the download bar 1-2 seconds and disconnect again. Also, when a custom 
 map is played, many players disconnect at mapchange. If they connected 
 on the previous map, I get minus score for that. How nice...
 
 - Exploiting: Some of my servers are empty at night. So a player now can 
 join it, disconnect and leave again just to hurt me?
 
 We KNEW for a long time valve is getting up the fight against mods again 
 after they reverted the sv_tags delist shit.
 It seems this is what they thought out this time to fight custom servers.
 
 I'm paying *** money from my own pocket each month to provide 
 servers for THEIR game. I help them to earn money while I spend my money.
 LET MY FU* server alone goddamn.
 
 (And again, sorry for the language. I'm in wrath).
 
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available

[Blood Letter]

 1.0.1.0 3777 here.
Ugh...
Why, Valve, why?

Is it so hard to do ANY testing?

 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:54:45 +
 From: tom.chi...@googlemail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
 
 Should  the server version be 1.0.1.1 after this is applied? I don't seem to
 be getting it.
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Re: [hlds] Steam client crash

[Blood Letter]

No it isn't.
TF2 alt-tab takes forever, regardless of how much RAM your PC/videocard has.

 From: gamead...@127001.org
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:48:24 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
 
 It already is, if you have enough RAM..
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-
  boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dustin Wyatt
  Sent: 09 March 2009 17:08
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
  
  While you're right, using noborder is pretty awesome anyway.  Makes
  alt-tab
  almost instantaneous.
  
  On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net
  wrote:
  
   No, that's what we call a 'workaround', not a fix.
  
   Saint K.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Matthew
  Gottlieb
   Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:52 PM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
  
   Run in a windows without a border.  Problem solved (given your video
  card
   has enough power to support this).
  
   ~ Mooga
  
   On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net
   wrote:
  
Crap, this was ment to be send directly to valve and not the list.
   
Cheers
   
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 4:39 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: [hlds] Steam client crash
   
Hi,
   
From the latest update there is a crash in the steamclient. When
  your
alt+tabbed out of the game(TF2 in this case), and you then try to
  join a
server (from windows), steam.exe crashes and it puts hl2.exe in a
  stall.
   
In the past it never used to do this, and people in our community
  use
   this
allot to join our gameservers when their on auto-retry.
   
Would you mind looking into the issue?
   
Regards,
   
Saint K.
   
   
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Re: [hlds] Steam client crash

[Blood Letter]

Does it trap your mouse to the game window?

 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:48:51 -0500
 From: matthew.j.gottl...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
 
 This also works great if you're running a system with multiple screens ;)
 
 
 On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:45 PM, turb0z tur...@undergamer.com wrote:
 
  It may have been said already, but run in windowed mode with no border and
  alt tab is AWESOME.  Running a 9800GTX+ and have seen no performance drops.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:04 PM
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
 
 
  No it isn't.
  TF2 alt-tab takes forever, regardless of how much RAM your PC/videocard
  has.
 
   From: gamead...@127001.org
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:48:24 +
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
  
   It already is, if you have enough RAM..
  
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-
boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dustin Wyatt
Sent: 09 March 2009 17:08
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
   
While you're right, using noborder is pretty awesome anyway.  Makes
alt-tab
almost instantaneous.
   
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net
wrote:
   
 No, that's what we call a 'workaround', not a fix.

 Saint K.

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Matthew
Gottlieb
 Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:52 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash

 Run in a windows without a border.  Problem solved (given your video
card
 has enough power to support this).

 ~ Mooga

 On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net
 wrote:

  Crap, this was ment to be send directly to valve and not the list.
 
  Cheers
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 4:39 PM
  To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
  Subject: [hlds] Steam client crash
 
  Hi,
 
  From the latest update there is a crash in the steamclient. When
your
  alt+tabbed out of the game(TF2 in this case), and you then try to
join a
  server (from windows), steam.exe crashes and it puts hl2.exe in a
stall.
 
  In the past it never used to do this, and people in our community
use
 this
  allot to join our gameservers when their on auto-retry.
 
  Would you mind looking into the issue?
 
  Regards,
 
  Saint K.
 
 
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  Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1990 - Release Date:
03/08/09
  17:17:00
 
 
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Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?

[Blood Letter]

Sigh...

I posted before (December?) with this issue.
Stock was fine.
Stock + MM+SM showed 14.
It was repeatable and consistent.

It magically fixed itself after a few restarts.

Something about MM+SM causes this.
So yes, I will blame teh addons and teh pluginz!

Do you have to be an ass in everything you do?

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:21:22 -0400
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?
 
 OH NOES SUMTING IS WRONG, BLAME TEH ADDONS AND TEH PLUGINZ!

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Re: [hlds] Steam client crash

[Blood Letter]

And you need to be able to alt tab to whatever admin utilities you run, or a 
remote session to the server, from the client machine you use to test.

You DO test, don't you?

Just about anything that involves the client impacts the server.
Don't client update notices get sent to this list?

 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:33:36 -0500
 From: matthew.j.gottl...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Steam client crash
 
 Says the person who uses their gaming computer to admin the server.  I use
 one of the other random boxes for that...
 
 On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Dustin Wyatt dustin.wy...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Correct.
 
  Being able to alt-tab out of your game to administrate the server IS
  relevant to server administration.
 
  On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:40 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 
   This entire thread is relevant to server administration.
  
  
  
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Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?

[Blood Letter]

Same happened to me...

 From: eclyp...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:57:16 -0400
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?
 
 
 this has happened to me as well. Just happened this morning. my provider 
 automatically disabled all my servers because I was using extra slots
 
 Thank you,
 Alec Sanger
 P: 248.941.3813
 F: 313.286.8945
 
 
 
  Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:45:47 +0100
  From: mail...@ml86.de
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?
  
  Versus mode?
   Is there something weird going on? All the sudden all my servers are 
   showing
   up as 14 slots in L4D.
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Re: [hlds] Duck in Midair Fix Needs to be Reverted or Retooled

[Blood Letter]

We want you to still be able to jump sentryguns.

I'd opt for just about anything that reduces the sentry-humping lameness.


 From: gamead...@127001.org
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:42:08 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Duck in Midair Fix Needs to be Reverted or Retooled
 
 What I love is how, despite the OP in that forum thread quoting the thing
 that says it's to do with the hitbox changes, not the midair duck changes,
 so so many of the replies are about how they didn't test the midair thing
 or need to let you duck twice in midair or something equally unrelated.
 
 (I assume the OP on hlds wasn't aware of the true source of the issue, which
 is fair enough)
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-
  boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
  Sent: 06 March 2009 02:22
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Duck in Midair Fix Needs to be Reverted or
  Retooled
  
  Followed by 3 pages of people saying how that isn't good enough.
  
  Gotta love Valve game fans!
  
  
  On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 18:17 -0800, Ryan Mannion wrote:
   http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816875
  
   Quote:
   ===
   Crouch jump will be fixed, 3 u valve
   I sent an e-mail to Robin Walker and, being the ninja that he is, he
   replied within minutes.
  
   The reply stated
  
   It was a side effect of the changes we made to ensure the bounding
   box more correctly matched the player's animation, so that hitboxes
   were correct. We want you to still be able to jump sentryguns, so
   we'll be doing something about it.
  
   Robin.
  
   This is a thank you thread, as well as a great relief (I'm sure) to
   many spies and engies everywhere.
   ===
  
   Ryan
  
   On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Ryan Mannion floormas...@gmail.com
  wrote:
The jump timing has been altered somehow, though. A few examples:
   
* Engineers cannot jump on top of their sentries
* On cp_badlands, you can no longer jump on top of the crates on
  the
center point trains
* On pl_frontier_b2, in BLU spawn, you can no longer jump from the
track area to the train platform
   
Ryan
   
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com
  wrote:
You can duck ONCE in midair.
   
On 3/5/09, Ryan Mannion floormas...@gmail.com wrote:
The duck in midair change makes it impossible to jump on top of
crates, ledges, and many other map elements that are meant to be
reachable by this method. These aren't exploitable areas - just
  normal
parts of maps that take advantage of the delay involved in a
crouch-jump as a tradeoff to using that path/area. Please revert
  this
change or permit it to be reverted.
   
Ryan
   
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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

HPET (High-Precision Event Timer) basically increases the resolution of event 
timing.
Think of having a log for every event that happens.

Without HPET, you're log might look like this:
Event @ Hours:Minutes:Seconds

With HPET, you're log might look like this:

Event @ Hours:Minutes:Seconds:Milliseconds

The big change with HPET is on your kernel's timer.  The change on the 
processor itself is minimal.

You need Vista/Server 2K8 or later to use HPET.
You need a CPU that supports it.  Both AMD and Intel have CPUs that support 
HPET.  AMD's implementation (or that of the AMD motherboards') has been buggy 
for consumer-level hardware.  I do not know if their server hardware is any 
better, but it probably is.
You need a motherboard that supports it.  Almost all modern motherboards will 
if they're compatible with a processor that has it.

Of course, all of this is completely unnecessary.

Again with the 1000 fps bullshit?


 From: tur...@undergamer.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:34:42 -0600
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 Answers:
 
 1. Only Intel, and only certain motherboards.
 2. HPET only gives your processor advanced timing to achieve 1000fps.  Yes,
 you need srcdsfpsbooster in order to run 80fps.  If you don't run HPET,
 you'll only achieve 500fps with fps_max 0.
 
 The answer isn't clear with google.  I probably spent a good hour or so
 searching before I found information on how HPET works and why it's needed
 to achieve 1000fps in Server 2k8.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of CLAN RCR
 Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:26 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 Hey Midnight, I looked up HPET and this is what Microsoft says about it.
 
 The High Precision Event Timer (HPET) was developed jointly by Intel and
 Microsoft to meet the timing requirements of multimedia and other
 time-sensitive applications. Originally, the HPET was called the Multimedia
 Timer (MM Timer), but the name was later changed to avoid confusion with a
 Microsoft DirectX timer, and to better describe the timer.
 
 
 I had a couple questions..
 
 1. Is that only active with an Intel processor?
 2. Does the srcdsfpsbooster use HPET to do what it does I know it uses some
 media player extention, but if HPET the reason why it works?
 If you don't know, that's fine.. I'll dig more and figure it out, but I
 thought it might be a handy opportunity to ask.
 
 Currently we're running an Opteron 2.4ghz dual core processor and
 experiencing 43% processor utilization on a full 32 slot server. I have no
 idea why it's using so many resources.. We even have fps_max set at 300 from
 the 600 we use to run.
 
 -Matt
 
 On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Midnight mido...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  2008.  Better Kernel (google for the details), supports HPET (though
  only really needed for 1000fps servers). 2003 does not.
 
 
  Cc2iscooL wrote:
   2008. Hands down.
  
   On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 5:47 PM, mu...@anbservers.net wrote:
  
  
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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

I see you have experience with Nvidia's 690G.
LOL.

 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:10:50 -0500
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 From: g...@velocity-servers.net
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 At 10:26 AM 3/2/2009, CLAN RCR wrote:
 Hey Midnight, I looked up HPET and this is what Microsoft says about it.
 
 The High Precision Event Timer (HPET) was developed jointly by Intel and
 Microsoft to meet the timing requirements of multimedia and other
 time-sensitive applications. Originally, the HPET was called the Multimedia
 Timer (MM Timer), but the name was later changed to avoid confusion with a
 Microsoft DirectX timer, and to better describe the timer.
 
 
 I had a couple questions..
 
 1. Is that only active with an Intel processor?
 
 No. It's more or less chipset specific.
 
 2. Does the srcdsfpsbooster use HPET to do what it does I know it uses some
 media player extention, but if HPET the reason why it works?
 If you don't know, that's fine.. I'll dig more and figure it out, but I
 thought it might be a handy opportunity to ask.
 
 That uses an API. It only supports it if it's enabled in the BIOS. If 
 it's disabled, it uses either
 the PIT, or the TSC.
 
 Currently we're running an Opteron 2.4ghz dual core processor and
 experiencing 43% processor utilization on a full 32 slot server. I have no
 idea why it's using so many resources.. We even have fps_max set at 300 from
 the 600 we use to run.
 
 Older opertons do not support HPET. Certain AMD chipsets report 
 incorrect operating frequencies for HPET, so you
 may get clock aliasing. I seen a couple of nVidia boards report HPET 
 running at 25mhz when they are really running at 10mhz
 
 
 -Matt
 
 On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Midnight mido...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   2008.  Better Kernel (google for the details), supports HPET (though
   only really needed for 1000fps servers). 2003 does not.
  
  
   Cc2iscooL wrote:
2008. Hands down.
   
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 5:47 PM, mu...@anbservers.net wrote:
   
   
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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

Are you joking?
I ran 4 L4D servers on an old dual core athlon, and it never got over 50% CPU 
usage.

L4D does not tax the CPU at all, despite all the hype about the amazingly 
complex (yeah, right) AI Director.

1000 FPS!!! servers are a joke.

 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:23:36 -0800
 From: mido...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 4-5 concurrently.  I think your RAM is fine since your CPU is so small.
 
 
 mu...@anbservers.net wrote:
  Well let me ask you this.
 
  How many l4d servers to you think I can run on this box with 2003/2008?

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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

2008.

People tend to like to stick to old operating systems because they fear change.
They see higher memory usage as a problem, and not an indication of a more 
robust system.
They see an extra process running and immediately call it bloat, and look for 
ways to disable it.

There is no point in running any server above 100 fps/tickrate.
It can cause networking issues for clients.
(There is a big difference between tickrate and framerate, as well.)


 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 18:47:54 -0500
 From: mu...@anbservers.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 If you were choosing an os for a new server would it be 2003 or 2008
 
 Box specs are
 
 Core2Duo E6600 (2 x 2.4Ghz)
 2048MB DDR2 RAM
 250GB 7200RPM SATA2 HD
 
 I like 2008 but I would like to hear what the experts have to say.
 
 P.S.
 
 msleeper take it easy on a noob
 
 
 This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

You'll only ever see bad performance when you run out of CPU overhead, RAM, or 
bandwidth.
What are you talking about?

You want your average usage to be under 100%, sure.  But 50% was my peak when I 
forced a non sotp panic event on all servers and spawned a bunch of crap.

 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:16:06 -0800
 From: mido...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 That's kinda the point.  You don't want to go over 40-50% CPU usage or 
 you will soon start seeing bad performance.
 
 You can add 2GB so you have 4GB and then run 8-10 servers, but you'll be 
 pushing your luck.
 
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  Are you joking?
  I ran 4 L4D servers on an old dual core athlon, and it never got over 50% 
  CPU usage.
 
  L4D does not tax the CPU at all, despite all the hype about the amazingly 
  complex (yeah, right) AI Director.
 
  1000 FPS!!! servers are a joke.

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Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008

[Blood Letter]

I was monitoring CPU usage at the machine...


 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:10:19 -0500
 From: kil...@righttorule.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] 2003 or 2008
 
 Also the cpu number in the stats query isn't the best
 
 Midnight wrote:
  That's kinda the point.  You don't want to go over 40-50% CPU usage or 
  you will soon start seeing bad performance.
 
  You can add 2GB so you have 4GB and then run 8-10 servers, but you'll be 
  pushing your luck.
 
 
  Blood Letter wrote:

  Are you joking?
  I ran 4 L4D servers on an old dual core athlon, and it never got over 50% 
  CPU usage.
 
  L4D does not tax the CPU at all, despite all the hype about the amazingly 
  complex (yeah, right) AI Director.
 
  1000 FPS!!! servers are a joke.

  
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

Read some of the stuff there...

Wow.  Msleeper's servers take donations and offer benefits to their 
Supporters, and they intend to let people buy ads to spam in-game!  Wonder 
how much of a hit to his donations he'll get from this fiasco.

We
are also going to be adding a new way to support! Starting soon, we are
going to be offering in-game ads to the public. Want to tell everyone
that you pwn Scouts for a living? Or that no zombie is safe from you?
Soon you can, and let EVERYONE know!

As always, we are open to
ideas and suggestions, so if you have a cool idea for a Supporter
benefit, let us know! Who knows, if we use your ideas we might give you
some freebie Supporter. 




 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:18:42 -0600
 From: cc2isc...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 Kekekekeke.
 
 http://forums.f7lans.com/farm-at-f7lans-be-banned-t1380.html
 
 It's on your forums. As far as I'm concerned it's an official bulletin from
 F7. :)
 
 On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, f0rkz h...@f0rkznet.net wrote:
 
  How about we keep f7 out of this.  This was an uncoordinated event not
  discussed with upper management.
 
 
  f0rkz
  f7lans.com - Not your moms marble madness
 
 
  On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Chris wrote:
 
   So, I didn't know what clan msleeper was running but thought there
   would be
   loads of people complaining on his forums, and right enough in his
   bans
   section loads of people are complaining... First thread I saw this
   reply
   from one of his TF2 Division members:
  
   Or just do it on another non F7 server like everyone else who farms
   achievements does and don't fall for msleepers little trap next
   time. 
  
   I think you should ban this guy msleeper, not only does he play on
   your
   server but he's one of your clan members in TF2 Division and he's
   condones
   and obviously is involved in the highly illicit practice of
   farming,  and
   advising those who play on your servers to farm elsewhere!
  
   On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Blood Letter
   bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
  
  
   This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a
   one-man parade.
  
  
  
   What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share
   their
   toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!
   You're
   not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate
   you
   too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
   him because he's stupid!
  
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
   people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't
   against the
   rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server
   admins
   to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
   saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
   same way I do? Of course not.
  
   I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel
   about
   farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you
   feel,
   so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
  
  
   On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
   msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using
   to
   judge
   your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
  
   Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might
   possibly
   be
   off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
   moot
   point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is
   behind the
   driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is
   somehow a
   banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
   consider the
   other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
  
   -Matt
  
   On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   wrote:
  
   Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is
   back
   up
   to where it was before, not like I care too much.
  
  
  
   I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
   plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
   self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something
   that
   nobody is being held at gun point to use.
  
   If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
  
  
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a one-man 
parade.



What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
him because he's stupid!

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
 people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
 rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server admins
 to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
 saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
 same way I do? Of course not.
 
 I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
 farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you feel,
 so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
 
 
 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
  msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
  your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
  
  Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
  off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
  point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
  driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
  banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider the
  other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
  
  -Matt
  
  On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
  
   Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
   to where it was before, not like I care too much.
  
  
  
   I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
   plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
   self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
   nobody is being held at gun point to use.
  
   If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
  
  
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

He claims it's because he thinks fake clients are bad.  (And a fake server is 
better?  LOL)
The real reason is because he wants to toy with people and play God.

 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:03:25 -0500
 From: thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 Whats the point again of having them join the server get an achievement and
 then get banned? So they get an achievement off you, you allow them to in
 your opinion Cheat and then get banned? So its ok to momentarily allow
 them to cheat why not use fake clients and auto ban them as they join?
 Atleast thats more upfront about it as opposed to allowing them to get their
 sin then have you ban them.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

You've already claimed that they are dishonest players who earn achievements 
through farming.

Why would you make any time-based considerations for this group, using any 
standard created with honest players in mind?

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:19:35 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 The 30 day ban is for a good reason - I feel that 30 days is plenty of
 time for honest players to earn the unlockables through normal,
 real-world means. People with kids and wives and 40-hour-a-week jobs -
 but also a sense of decency.
 
 Their names and SteamIDs are going to stay up on the list page though.
 
 
 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:12 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
  The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off his
  servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol... IDK seems
  like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player is a hacker
  and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not perma ban?
  Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise their hands
  to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban? Out of
  curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it feel to
  have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] A question of ethics

[Blood Letter]

I have used the unlocker to get the scout achievements (all others were 
earned by grinding in regular maps).
I have never used a fake clients plugin, nor will I ever.

The ONLY thing that gets you banned from any of my servers is 
exploiting/hacking.
I don't care if you're spamming racial epithets on the mic, using porn sprays, 
or killing your teammates.
That's what muting, disabling sprays, and kicking are for.

There is NOTHING else you can do to get yourself banned from my servers.

Everyone has a good time, and when there is a problem player, people simply 
ignore/kick them.

 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:45:55 +0100
 From: donnie.newl...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] A question of ethics
 
 How many of you who look down on msleepers truly horrible and
 unforgivable acts against the community that threaten to ruin the very
 core of everything we hold dear have ever used a fake client plugin?
 
 What do you think players find more annoying, not being able to join
 one out of a hundred communities for doing something that the
 community are against or not being able to find a place to play
 because of hundreds of empty servers trying to lure players in there
 so that they can... well, I don’t know exactly. Leave and try to find
 a new one obviously. At least I know which of these two honeypots I
 think is worse.
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
 From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.
 
 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
 
 msleeper schrieb:
  I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
  who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
  there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
  step one.
 
  I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
  night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
  stopped.
 
  The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
  My publicly available list of farmers is here:
  http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
 
  I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
  about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
  but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
 
 
  Sent from my honeypot
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being banned 
from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.

You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements - 
they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous achievements) 
achievement (and probably progress towards others) before being banned.

You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many achievements as 
other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less due to overhead - 
since they have to go find another server afterward, etc.).

You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public list, 
but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) would be 
hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of servers will 
NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of the list, let 
alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT running 
sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).

You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain way.  
That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause, especially with 
the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another server (instead of the 
honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than to 
grind for achievements.
I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and whatever 
other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding, or promote 
social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is intentionally turned 
into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, 
because people feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, 
and the Ubersaw.

It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people enjoy 
their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is fine, but I 
hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server which has let 
thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to 
despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community (ass), 
while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
 between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
 is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
  
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
  
  msleeper schrieb:
   I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
   who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
   there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
   step one.
  
   I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
   night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
   stopped.
  
   The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
  
   I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
   about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
   but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
  
  
   Sent from my honeypot
  
  
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is about 
bettering the community or taking a stand.

I am not missing the point of a honeypot.  I am a degree-wielding computer 
scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security sector 
and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually following 
through and taking action.  They are a useful approach in terms of improving 
security (through statistical research), but since you're not Valve you're not 
really going to improve the core problem, are you?

It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people 
join servers running achievement maps is to farm.

This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:

-Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them?  Just ban them 
on join.
--The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join and 
thus ban more.

-So why not just report false clients?  Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help you 
out.  He posts here.  Though he still maintains that their servers are vanilla 
and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or shuffle you off 
to other servers.
--The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny them 
things.  You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily and with 
an inflated sense of self-righteousness.  You are the worst kind of admin.  You 
are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, and exploiters.

As to why your assumption is incorrect:

Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends (right 
click friend, view game info, join!).
Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and not 
the map.
Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is considered 
a bad thing.

If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask you 
about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2.  If a free weekend is upon 
us, then there will be a lot of new players.  Should someone be banned from 
your servers just because they joined your honeypot?  Should they be banned 
from other servers who have picked up your list?

Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what you 
think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.  That's fine.  
What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you calling 
these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having a differing 
opinion about how to play a game.  If you had your way, those players would be 
banned from TF2 entirely.  You are actively trying to spread your list of over 
2000 bans.  Do you really think that all those people deserve to be banned?  
(Yes, you do:  These are known achievement farmers! Ban them NOW!)

What you claim is dubious.  Your intentions are not noble.  Your methods are 
detrimental to TF2 as a whole.
I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some achievement, 
so I never have to deal with your servers.


 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.
 
 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
 
 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being 
  banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
  
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements 
  - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous 
  achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards others) before 
  being banned.
  
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less 
  due to overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward, 
  etc.).
  
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public 
  list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) 
  would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of 
  servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of 
  the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT 
  running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).
  
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain 
  way

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

[Blood Letter]

I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone

Really?

Achievement Farmers: Be Warned! Server admins are fighting back!
You can help STOP achievement farming!

Until Valve can find a way to stop those who belittle the meaning
and purpose of Achievement and Unlockables, you can do something to
stop them!

Achievement farming ruins the integrity, the purpose, of
achievements. The word achievement doesn't mean dick around in a map
for 45 minutes and earn unlockables, and since Valve has yet to take a
step towards stopping those who belittle the work and dedication of
others, I have.

Download the SourceMod plugin here.

Take Back Team Fortress!

These are known achievement farmers! Ban them NOW!


You admit that joining the server running that map isn't wrong, yet you don't 
realize that some people will join and inadvertently earn an achievement?  You 
don't realize that by setting the threshold of wrong to earning an 
achievement on an achievement server your honeypot is functioning just as any 
other achievement server?

You claim over 2000 bans.  I say you've aided and abetted in the farming of 
over 2000 achievements.  You're a tool.







 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:17:32 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I wait for people to earn achievements before having them banned,
 because you're right, joining the map isn't doing anything wrong.
 Earning achievements on an achievement farming map on the other hand...
 
 I don't understand your comment about fake clients. My opinion of that
 is well known and I anxiously await the patch which will rid the world
 of fake clients.
 
 I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone, and I'm not trying to
 force anyone to setup a honeypot server. If people want to follow my
 lead though, I am giving everyone the tools necessary to do so. And yes,
 I think every single 2100+ and counting people deserve to be banned.
 They cheated the system.
 
 Once again, if you want to continue this, I am on IRC and am happy to
 argue there. I'll go ahead and copy this over to AlliedModders since you
 want to bring it there too.
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 15:05 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is 
  about bettering the community or taking a stand.
  
  I am not missing the point of a honeypot.  I am a degree-wielding computer 
  scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
  I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security 
  sector and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually 
  following through and taking action.  They are a useful approach in terms 
  of improving security (through statistical research), but since you're not 
  Valve you're not really going to improve the core problem, are you?
  
  It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
  You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people 
  join servers running achievement maps is to farm.
  
  This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:
  
  -Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them?  Just ban 
  them on join.
  --The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join 
  and thus ban more.
  
  -So why not just report false clients?  Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help 
  you out.  He posts here.  Though he still maintains that their servers are 
  vanilla and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or 
  shuffle you off to other servers.
  --The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny 
  them things.  You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily 
  and with an inflated sense of self-righteousness.  You are the worst kind 
  of admin.  You are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, 
  and exploiters.
  
  As to why your assumption is incorrect:
  
  Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends 
  (right click friend, view game info, join!).
  Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and 
  not the map.
  Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is 
  considered a bad thing.
  
  If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask 
  you about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2.  If a free weekend 
  is upon us, then there will be a lot of new players.  Should someone be 
  banned from your servers just because they joined your honeypot?  Should 
  they be banned from other servers who have picked up your list?
  
  Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what 
  you think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.  That's 
  fine.  What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you 
  calling these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having 
  a differing opinion about

Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming

[Blood Letter]

Probably applies the data steam cloud gathered to lock away the weapons of 
anyone who used the unlocker.

(Hint:  It won't do that.)

 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:57 -0500
 From: gamerzwo...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming
 
 What does this update do exactly?
 
 On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:59 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Yay, I love you.
 
  On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com
  wrote:
 
   A required update for Team Fortress 2 is on the way.  It should be live
  in
   about 30 minutes.
  
   Jason
  
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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming

[Blood Letter]

That update's a SPY!

 From: eclyp...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:14:55 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming
 
 
 you're both wrong... they're changing the steamIDs to use 2 instead of 0: or 
 1:
 
 :P
 
 Thank you,
 Alec Sanger
 P: 248.941.3813
 F: 313.286.8945
 
 
 
  From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:12:50 -0800
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming
  
  
  Probably applies the data steam cloud gathered to lock away the weapons of 
  anyone who used the unlocker.
  
  (Hint:  It won't do that.)
  
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:57 -0500
   From: gamerzwo...@gmail.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming
   
   What does this update do exactly?
   
   On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:59 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:
   
Yay, I love you.
   
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com
wrote:
   
 A required update for Team Fortress 2 is on the way.  It should be 
 live
in
 about 30 minutes.

 Jason

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[hlds] L4D - Players crashing server?

[Blood Letter]

Does the recent hubbub over players crashing servers apply to L4D as well as 
TF2?
(I didnt read too much into it since it never happened to me...until today).

If so...

General Supplies
STEAM_1:0:21988540
72.181.185.131

Was using the Hunter exploit (pounding through doors, including the safe room 
door) garatuitously.
Warned him, he continued.
Banned him, and server was crashed a few seconds after.


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Re: [hlds] New inexplicable rate restriction making 26x+ serverslaggy.

[Blood Letter]

I don't play on 32 player servers because, generally, lag and performance takes 
a nose dive after 24.
If this is much more of a problem now, then it is probably crippling 32 player 
servers.

I think the gameplay simply sucks beyond 24 players, but since Valve officially 
supports 32 players, then they sure as hell should be supporting the servers 
with 32 slots.
I'm willing to bet it was just a huge oversight (Valve not testing on 32 player 
servers at all) from the last patch, and the fix will come soon.


 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:49:36 -0500
 From: sishgu...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] New inexplicable rate restriction making 26x+ serverslaggy.
 
 Hi,
 
 Can you guys please cut out the immature bullshit fighting? If you don't
 agree with the way someone runs their server then just don't help them with
 their problem by _ignoring_ them. Concentrate more on your own actions and
 less on that of others. You don't actually think that you are going to
 persuade someone to not do what they are doing, right?
 
 Some people that view this mailing list actually read it for the bugs and
 the solutions, not to read your endless bickering.
 I suspect that this post will be futile in its efforts, but I had to try
 once.
 
 Also, ontopic, my 32 man has this issue. I appreciate valves many bugfixes
 to gameplay, and so does my community. We still remain hopeful that timeout
 issues as well as these new lag bugs will be resolved in a timely manner.
 
 -Sish
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Re: [hlds] Suggestion for new scout update (public servers owners)

[Blood Letter]

Farming servers are usually intentional.
Valve won't ban farmers.  They won't even take their unlockables/achievements 
away.

What they will do is take away the unlockables/achievements of some of the 
people who unlock them via console (you just know that workaround will be left 
in, AGAIN).

I, for one, welcome our new baseball throwing (please!) overlords.

 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 02:31:44 +0200
 From: alexandrualexa...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] Suggestion for new scout update (public servers owners)
 
 Try to put a class limit, so there won't be a farming server !
 
 Also Valve: You said that you will ban people which are farming, am i right
 ?
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Re: [hlds] Client timed out emptying server

[Blood Letter]

Seems a little premature.
They come and they go.

Etc.



 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:39:08 +1100
 From: dogg...@bigpond.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Client timed out emptying server
 
 It dropped Sex :(
 
 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Nephyrin Zey nephy...@doublezen.netwrote:
 
  Dropped iffaca from server (iffaca timed out)
  Dropped humdain from server (humdain timed out)
  Dropped Aids from server (Aids timed out)
  Dropped Adebisi from server (Adebisi timed out)
  Dropped TBD Gwop from server (TBD Gwop timed out)
  Dropped blargles from server (blargles timed out)
  Dropped [C2GS] JaXXXon from server ([C2GS] JaXXXon timed out)
  Dropped dgreenleaf10 from server (dgreenleaf10 timed out)
  Dropped jay1s2345 from server (jay1s2345 timed out)
  Dropped zeo_hydra from server (zeo_hydra timed out)
  Dropped sparkitus from server (sparkitus timed out)
  Dropped Sex from server (Sex timed out)
  Dropped Animal Rock from server (Animal Rock timed out)
  Dropped Sir Prize from server (Sir Prize timed out)
  Dropped A_Potato from server (A_Potato timed out)
  Dropped gman376 from server (gman376 timed out)
  Dropped FriendlyHobo from server (FriendlyHobo timed out)
  Dropped [PalF] Rogue from server ([PalF] Rogue timed out)
  Dropped alkalinebattery from server (alkalinebattery timed out)
  Dropped Danicus from server (Danicus timed out)
  Dropped Exantha from server (Exantha timed out)
  Dropped Matt Hatter Machete Squad from server (Matt Hatter Machete
  Squad timed out)
  Dropped jeanclaudtransam from server (jeanclaudtransam timed out)
  Dropped Lt. Shiny Sides from server (Lt. Shiny Sides timed out)
  Dropped bretto from server (bretto timed out)
  Dropped Falz from server (Falz timed out)
  Dropped [p*h] Alaklyn from server ([p*h] Alaklyn timed out)
  Dropped bari-man from server (bari-man timed out)
  Dropped [C2GS] Phoenik from server (Disconnect by user.)
 
 
  On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote:
   They're getting back at you for running 32 slot servers :P
  
   On 1/19/09, Nephyrin Zey nephy...@doublezen.net wrote:
   Dropped trew from server (Disconnect by user.)
   Dropped HellFaun from server (Disconnect by user.)
   Dropped BluEs Vs. ReDs from server (BluEs Vs. ReDs timed out)
   Dropped [noob4lyfe]Kudo from server ([noob4lyfe]Kudo timed out)
   Dropped jmarsland from server (jmarsland timed out)
   Dropped StoneHunter from server (StoneHunter timed out)
   Dropped Juice from server (Juice timed out)
   Dropped B-Wreck from server (B-Wreck timed out)
   Dropped Bear from server (Bear timed out)
   Dropped Boxer Rumble from server (Boxer Rumble timed out)
   Dropped Dooms Day from server (Dooms Day timed out)
   Dropped acher tyler from server (acher tyler timed out)
   Dropped Dr. Blair from server (Dr. Blair timed out)
   Dropped Bill45a from server (Bill45a timed out)
   Dropped [GJ] Agent X from server ([GJ] Agent X timed out)
   Dropped aiyah its wrx from server (aiyah its wrx timed out)
   Dropped pie from server (pie timed out)
   Dropped {Sith}Bane from server ({Sith}Bane timed out)
   Dropped mbb152 from server (mbb152 timed out)
   Dropped The_Red Stapler from server (The_Red Stapler timed out)
   Dropped -ToastY-N-SexY- from server (-ToastY-N-SexY- timed out)
   Dropped ANIMAL_cz from server (ANIMAL_cz timed out)
   Dropped Trotts from server (Trotts timed out)
   Dropped Upper_Hand from server (Upper_Hand timed out)
   Dropped www.atomicstorm-16 from server (www.atomicstorm-16 timed out)
   Dropped Wynd from server (Wynd timed out)
   Dropped Easyblue[CIA] from server (Easyblue[CIA] timed out)
   Dropped A Jewish Guy from server (A Jewish Guy timed out)
   Dropped Namu from server (Namu timed out)
  
   ffu-
  
   Valve, jesus christ. And no, this is not on map change.
   - Neph
  
   On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 7:56 PM, DeaD_EyE dead...@gbs-clan.de wrote:
   Nephyrin Zey schrieb:
   THIS:
   Dropped Mallen from server (Mallen timed out)
   Dropped Rural Knight from server (Rural Knight timed out)
   Dropped Zenorex from server (Zenorex timed out)
   Dropped Mrwinner from server (Mrwinner timed out)
   Dropped Klemma from server (Klemma timed out)
   Dropped ghia_cruzer74 from server (ghia_cruzer74 timed out)
   Dropped moonfist from server (moonfist timed out)
   Dropped Alinorth from server (Alinorth timed out)
   Dropped DemianUG from server (DemianUG timed out)
   Dropped Jude_ from server (Jude_ timed out)
   Dropped SecuROM from server (SecuROM timed out)
   Dropped The_Sledgehammer_Spammer from server (The_Sledgehammer_Spammer
   timed out)
   Dropped Sansabar from server (Sansabar timed out)
   Dropped shrug from server (shrug timed out)
   Dropped jamesosogood from server (jamesosogood timed out)
   Dropped AlphA.ArazustA from server (AlphA.ArazustA timed out)
   Dropped chthonic from server (chthonic timed out)
   Dropped stmiki0 from server (stmiki0 timed out)
   Dropped [RedRaidr] from 

Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available

[Blood Letter]

This is directed at everyone bitching about the timing of the update, not just 
you.

Release it when it's done.  
It would be nice if we were told in advance that an update is expected to be 
released sometime during the day, but the bottom line is if you can't be 
bothered to update a server, don't run a server.  If you're upset that your 
server is having trouble updating because thousands of other servers are trying 
to update at the same time, I suggest measuring your ePeen by something other 
than how fast your servers come up after updates, and how full they are.


 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:00:57 -0800
 From: k...@howies.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
 
 Friday afternoon is a really terrible time to release patches.
 
 Release them on Wednesday morning, that way it can be taken care of before
 it's even any wear near the day or week peaks.
 --
 Kyle Cassidy
 
 949.340.7180 office
 949.701.0759 cell
 http://Howies.com
 
 
 On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Cc2iscooL cc2isc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  From now on we will release patches whenever you are sleeping so your
  servers are empty.
 
  Thanks,
  Cc2iscooL
 
  On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:05 PM, jps.sgtr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Will you PLEASE quit releasing your patches on Friday afternoon  I'm
   getting sick of having to update my client and server before I can play.
   This is getting ridiculous!
  
  
   On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:13 PM, hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com
   wrote:
  
   
   
--
   
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:53:11 -0800
From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, 
  hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
   
   hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com,
   hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com
   hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com
Message-ID:
   
   
  ec42140f113a234ea70d682a310d100a01d869e...@exchange07.valvesoftware.com
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   
A required update for Left 4 Dead has been released.  Please use
hldsupdatetool to receive the update.  The specific changes include:
   
- Fixed an exploit with melee where swapping weapons ignored the
  intended
delay between swings.
- In Versus mode, the Tanks' health now reflects the damage he takes
  from
burning.
- Fixed an exploit related to the joinclass command
   
Jason
   
   
   
   
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[hlds] Metamod/Sourcemod Setting Maxplayers to 14?

[Blood Letter]

Just installed MM+SM on my server, and set myself up as admin.

Seems to have set my maxplayers to 14 (or at least, the reported maxplayers).
My commandline still shows 8.  I don't see any reference to this setting in any 
of the sourcemod config files, and I've never seen this behavior before.

Anyone have any idea what's going on?

This is with sourcemod version 1.2.0-hg2518 , and metamod source 1.7.0 .
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Re: [hlds] Metamod/Sourcemod Setting Maxplayers to 14?

[Blood Letter]

The maxplayers shown was 8 until I installed metamod/sourcemod, then it became 
14.

Haven't tried manually setting the shown number to 8 yet.

 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:05:02 -0600
 From: jeffsu...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Metamod/Sourcemod Setting Maxplayers to 14?
 
 I assume you're talking about L4D. If so, it's not MM/SM's fault. That's how
 Valve has it setup.
 
 Though I haven't figured out how to use the Spec slots yet.
 
 
 On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
 
 
 
 
  Just installed MM+SM on my server, and set myself up as admin.
 
  Seems to have set my maxplayers to 14 (or at least, the reported
  maxplayers).
  My commandline still shows 8.  I don't see any reference to this setting in
  any of the sourcemod config files, and I've never seen this behavior before.
 
  Anyone have any idea what's going on?
 
  This is with sourcemod version 1.2.0-hg2518 , and metamod source 1.7.0 .
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Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen AndAnswer! --- they don't owe you anything.

[Blood Letter]

You assume people are concerned with just one problem.

Valve has not commented on any of the other issues that have been brought up 
here, or anywhere else for that matter.

The lack of communication with players, let alone server operators, is 
unacceptable.
This list is the closest thing we as a group have to an official communication 
line with Valve.

Many Valve apologists have been known to praise Valve for responding to this 
list and direct emails.
In the past, this was true, and it was great.

It seems that since the release of the L4D beta, Valve did a 180 with regards 
to its customer support.


 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 23:06:42 +
 From: craig.collinso...@googlemail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen AndAnswer! --- they don't owe   
 you anything.
 
 as valve has allready said they are aware of the problem and are working on
 it and they have NO ETA!
 jeesus

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Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!

[Blood Letter]

When talking about server binaries, you've got your OS and your CPU. 
Any system configuration issues are understandable.  (For example, if
Norton broke the server.)  Seems to me the x86 instruction set + 
listed-as-supported linux/windows kernel versions provide only a dozen or so 
combinations.
If you didn't test on said hardware+os, don't list it as supported.

But the fact is we know the issues with the server code, and the client code, 
are not due to configuration differences, as they are experienced by all, and 
are repeatable.


 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:12:15 +
 From: oli...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
 
 If you had ANY remote idea of how many hardware/os configurations there are
 out there that could cause problems, you would be a little more lenient.
 While some of valve's releases have been a little too buggy for anyones
 liking, i'm sure that they test things as much as they can before release,
 why would they want to let them selves be known for this sort of thing.
 If valve took a day to fix a release for L4D for example, you sound exactly
 like the type of person who would spend time, opening up his email client,
 and writing another rant about how much valve fails for not releasing on
 time.
 
 2009/1/6 SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com
 
  it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with
  any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without
  testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times
  after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update.
  Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and
  L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going
  to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test
  something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting
  more frequent.
 
  Karl Weckstrom wrote:
   Now THAT is what I consider Well said.
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter
   Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
  
  
   If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers,
  without which their games would be useless, they suck.
  
   If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go
  unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend,
  they clearly prioritize sales over customers.
  
   I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a
  system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into
  the office if necessary.  If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power
  grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make
  sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are
  safe.
  
   If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days.  Do they
  only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing?  I hope not.  Any company
  worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share.
  
   Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying.  They get torn apart
  because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and
  they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any
  semblance of documentation.
  
   Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer.  If you're
  saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you
  don't understand a single thing about having a job.  If your job is to make
  games, you do that.  If your job is to deliver mail, you do that.  Working
  in a  particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off.
  
   If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct
  documentation, then they get support and sales.  Going from an F to an A
  doesn't change the fact that you still had an F.
  
   No one is treating Valve like shit.  We are simply demanding we get some
  support, some documentation, and some communication.  We get none of those
  things.  Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level
  of quality and service from the business you are patronizing.
  
   If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect,
  that's fine.  They'll just lose our money and our support.  Let's be clear
  here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around.  I'm
  sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own.  I
  can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I?  Regardless, I
  wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support
  gets a passing grade.
  
   Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with
  even a remote knowledge of programming

Re: [hlds] TF2 West Coast Issues [IMPORTANT]

[Blood Letter]

But but!  An admin from CircleX posts on this list and he said he runs vanilla 
servers and is on the up and up!
(Too lazy to dig up the emails about it where I called him out on it and he 
denied it.)

It's jerks like those that make legit admins harder to come by, and the games 
less fun.

Valve has a responsibility to maintain the quality of game, and it sucks that 
they don't in this case.
The security ramifications of the holes/bugs that some of these servers are 
exploiting is far worse though.

But hey, Valve doesn't give a rat's ass about server operators, why should you 
expect them to give a rat's ass about people who have already paid for the game?

 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:23:55 -0800
 From: dontwannaname...@yahoo.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 West Coast Issues [IMPORTANT]
 
 You can take Q off that list. Qosis closed Q today. 
 http://theqclan.com/viewtopic.php?t=29762postdays=0postorder=ascstart=0
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Randy W randygene...@gmail.com
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 11:34:14 AM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 West Coast Issues [IMPORTANT]
 
 let me guess you are one of those people who use fake clients too? I would
 like to say first that *PAT* does NOT run any fake clients. We believe in
 playing by the rules. As you can see from the fake client thread we are not
 one of those clans:
 
 *
 
- Lotus Clan
- -Q-
- ]TGP[
- CircleX
- GTFO
- Doorman is God
- Steamfriends.com EU
- OG
- Mod.me
- Ownage
- SourceOP
- Saigns
- X-Factor Gaming (XFG)
- LMF
- Alpha Omega
- sonsofsteel.de
- -MCG-
- DeX
- Imperox
- COTB
- The Couch Online
- Fragmasters
 
 *All of the above clans use fake player counts and they do deserve to be
 delisted, but let's keep that for a separate post. My server is run
 legitimately - no fake counts, etc - and there is no reason it should not be
 showing on the master server list.
 
 
 On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:27 AM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote:
 
  you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there
  games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell
  there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I
  used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch
  maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve
  doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly
  noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D.
 
  Valve will no reply to your issue nor do they care like they will not
  reply to us about any other bug. just give up
 
  Steve wrote:
   I would like to know, too.  I haven't had a problem with the list, but
   that would explain why my West coast Insurgency server has suddenly been
   unusually empty for about a week.  It was #1 ranked last week, and now
   it's at #5 according to GameTracker.  I know of one person on the East
   coast who reported being unable to see the server.
  
   Randy W wrote:
  
   Is anyone else noticing issues with West Coast servers? There's only
  ~150 -
   200 servers showing up for me on the West Coast, and over 1600 on the
  East
   Coast. Earlier the number jumped around between 50 and 200. I'm also
  certain
   this isn't an issue on my end, as other people I know are seeing the
  same
   issue. Some of my servers are appearing on the server list, then
   disappearin, then re-appearing, etc.
  
   Really need some assistance here Valve, this has been happening all
  weekend!
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Re: [hlds] L4D: TK'ing becoming more of an issue

[Blood Letter]

My idea has been to implement a leash.


If a person is being a jerk or running off too far ahead or straggling far 
behind, you can vote to leash them.
Get the average position of all non-leashed players, and any leashed player 
will be forced to stay within a distance x of that average position.

(It would drag/restrain the leashed person, not restrict the the rest of the 
group).

Of course, leashing a person who's acting like a one-man army and trying to be 
the hero will probably just piss them off and cause them to attack/work against 
the team.
And anyone who's already acting against the team will still be able to do so.

Just a random idea.
I'm sick of people demanding to be the center of attention and charging ahead 
like fools, and I'm sick of people straggling way in the back because they 're 
alt tabbing or just in general not really paying attention.

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 00:52:13 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D: TK'ing becoming more of an issue
 
 The 25 health thing could be an issue - on higher difficulties that's less
 than one shotgun shot...
 
 About the leaving spawn thing, I'm not sure.  The game will already replace
 players with bots if they're completely idle, and I'm sure someone somewhere
 has come up with some tactic or other for the first level of no mercy that
 needs a player to stay behind on the roof (probably not a _good_ tactic, but
 nevertheless...)
 
 Though if they were to go with that, I'd say within x seconds of everyone
 else and at least y distance away from the nearest player
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds-
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 07 December 2008 23:24
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: [hlds] L4D: TK'ing becoming more of an issue
  
  I rent a server, but occasionally I have to join other servers without
  active administrators. In the past couple of days I've run across game
  degrading behavior stemming from pairs of team killers. They aren't
  autokicked nor vote kicked. Typically I just leave and find another
  lobby,
  but it happened twice in a gaming session and feel that it could be
  resolved fairly easily and quickly by Valve.
  
  If a player chooses not to leave a spawn area within 45 seconds, they
  should be auto-kicked.
  If a player chooses to shoot at a team player for 30 seconds (or a
  total of
  25 health), they should be auto-kicked.
  
  There are probably other harsher rules, but should control some of the
  behavior in the game. It's become a more frequent problem and one that
  can't be resolved by a team that can't get a majority of the votes for
  a
  vote kick.
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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

What about maplists and map cycles?  Or mission cycles?
What about switching between versus and coop maps?

Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps in the 
maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command line)?
There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui.
There should be.  (Then there should be an option for server admins to restrict 
their servers to a specific type or not.)

What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a versus 
map?  Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected.
What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, the max 
number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.?

My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to versus 
maps when I want coop only.  It's not an issue of people being unable to set up 
servers, it's an issue of non-existent documentation from Valve.  Valve has no 
documentation.  I'm done working for Valve.  I'm not going
to support their games with my money, my time, and my servers until
they support me.

 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:09:05 -0600
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 QFT.  Documentation complete.
 
 On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, as
  so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and
  port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've
  pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and
  optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs
  doing.
 
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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

Yes, you can change the number of zombies, hitboxes, etc.  I was just
listing it as an example of undocumented things you can do.

This has everything to do with documentation.
Documentation is supposed to tell us what does what, what we can change, what 
we can't change, what the effects are, etc.

I want to limit my server to coop only because whenever it becomes a versus 
server it sits empty, and if i want to play with my friends I have to rcon in 
and force a map change, or restart it.  I don't particularly like the versus 
mode.  If a lobby is set to versus mode, and my server is set to coop only, it 
shouldn't join my server.  As it is, we have NO DOCUMENTATION to tell us what 
the intended behavior of versus vs coop modes is, the effect of lobbies of a 
different type trying to join your server, etc.

Valve Fails At Documentation.


 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:09:54 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 None of this is about documentation.  It's about the server being done in a
 certain way, and you wishing it was different.  Some of the things you are
 talking about make good sense to me (there should be a proper lobby for
 direct connect / steam group joins, although this is a client issue not a
 server one).  Some of them should not imo be possible without a server-side
 mod (like changing game behaviour like the amount of zombies; can't remember
 offhand if that exists as a cheat command atm or not).  Some of them make no
 sense (like wanting to limit to coop or versus only - what's supposed to
 happen after a versus lobby has tried to connect to a server that's
 restricted the maps to coop only?)
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds-
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blood Letter
  Sent: 25 November 2008 16:30
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg
  files?
  
  
  What about maplists and map cycles?  Or mission cycles?
  What about switching between versus and coop maps?
  
  Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps
  in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command
  line)?
  There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui.
  There should be.  (Then there should be an option for server admins to
  restrict their servers to a specific type or not.)
  
  What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a
  versus map?  Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected.
  What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values,
  the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.?
  
  My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to
  versus maps when I want coop only.  It's not an issue of people being
  unable to set up servers, it's an issue of non-existent documentation
  from Valve.  Valve has no documentation.  I'm done working for Valve.
  I'm not going
  to support their games with my money, my time, and my servers until
  they support me.
  
   Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:09:05 -0600
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg
  files?
  
   QFT.  Documentation complete.
  
   On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source
  servers, as
so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP
  and
port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and
  you've
pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group
  ID, and
optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else
  needs
doing.
  
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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation.
This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development.

I don't care if running a server was as simple as:

1:  Download this file.
2:  Run it.

Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project.
Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.  I hope you don't have jobs in the 
industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in the 
field.

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to
 explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or
 should be any different.
 
 Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on
 srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help
 us all.
 
 On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote:
  QFT.  Documentation complete.
  
  On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, 
   as
   so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and
   port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've
   pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and
   optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs
   doing.
  
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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product.
Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame.

I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places.
They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer.

How do I make my server coop or versus only?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?

How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in
 arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has
 Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release?
 
 The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the
 minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki
 or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things.
 
 On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation.
  This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development.
  
  I don't care if running a server was as simple as:
  
  1:  Download this file.
  2:  Run it.
  
  Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project.
  Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.  I hope you don't have jobs in the 
  industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in 
  the field.
  
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg 
   files?
   
   Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to
   explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or
   should be any different.
   
   Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on
   srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help
   us all.
   
   On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote:
QFT.  Documentation complete.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source 
 servers, as
 so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP 
 and
 port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and 
 you've
 pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group 
 ID, and
 optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else 
 needs
 doing.

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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

You can't drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system - 
you have no control over that.
I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using 
sv_search_key.

I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to change 
between coop and versus maps.
If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only.

The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure.  But if I don't want hat 
game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off (and the lobby 
system would then not pick my server when looking for a server).  What 
frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the server, then 
after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus mode.  No new 
lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to manually join because 
it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like versus.
If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it to a 
coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui.  We would 
then have to rcon and force a map.  We could set up a coop lobby and hope we 
get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very low.  We could 
use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might as well just 
manually change the map.  This doesn't work so well if I'm not around and my 
friends want to play on my server.  They don't have my password, and I'm not 
giving it to them (well, one of them does...).

Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon.  The point is I want the server 
to do a few simple things automatically.  I'm not even asking for something 
difficult.  I just want the server to obey the maplist file.  Anything 
involving rcon is NOT a solution.  I don't know about you, but I have a full 
time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a server, injecting 
commands into it.  Nor do I want to fiddle around with commands while I'm 
actually playing.  I want the server to be a dedicated coop server, open to the 
public.  Or, a server open to the public, with a gui option for ANY user to 
vote for ANY map (including switching between versus and coop maps).

You can't find a solution, can you?  There is none.

 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 Inline responses.
 
  What about maplists and map cycles?  Or mission cycles?
 
 Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the
 lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key
 cvar.  This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your
 dedicated server.  If you're finished playing and want to let others find
 your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key cvar
 via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ).
 
  What about switching between versus and coop maps?
  Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps
  in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command
  line)?
 
 Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and
 want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command.
 
 For a versus map:
 
 rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop
 
 For a coop map:
 
 rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment
 
 Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name.  If you're interested in
 the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the
 console autocomplete with the available maps.  Once you've found the desired
 map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go.
 
  There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui.
  There should be.  (Then there should be an option for server admins to
  restrict their servers to a specific type or not.)
 
 Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode.
 
  What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a
  versus map?  Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected.
  What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values,
  the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.?
 
 I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill.  Change the difficulty
 when the stronger team is playing as survivors.  This can be done using the
 z_difficulty cvar.  There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies,
 but I haven't used them.
 
  My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to
  versus maps when I want coop only.
 
 So you're fatal flaw here is that you're doing it wrong.  Valve wants
 everyone to use the lobby system.  I know that the steam group server
 concept doesn't reflect that, but if you're looking to kick start your
 server try creating a public lobby and using the sv_search_key cvar.  If
 that's not the approach use the changelevel command when you're connected to
 the server.
 ___
 To 

Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

I KNOW I can't.

People here say if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at the 
forums.  I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply impossible, 
by design or by flaw.
People defending Valve's lack of documentation and support do nothing but stick 
their fingers in their ears and repeat if you need help, just read the mailing 
list, look at the forums.

I point out obvious flaws or omissions or behavioral oddities, and people 
ignore them.  Some people will respond and say the lobby controls that or 
you can't.

If Valve's answer is you can't (without a good reason) for some basic 
functions, my server is going down, and I will never buy another Valve game.
If Valve continues to ignore server operators, my server is going down, and I 
will never buy another Valve game.

Valve basically has free labor, hosting, and marketing for their games.  They 
are dependent on us, NOT the other way around.
And yes, I will continue to bitch and whine and moan about it.

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:26:15 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps.
 You can't.
 
 If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only.
 You can't.
 
 On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:21 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  You can't drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system 
  - you have no control over that.
  I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using 
  sv_search_key.
  
  I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to change 
  between coop and versus maps.
  If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only.
  
  The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure.  But if I don't want 
  hat game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off (and 
  the lobby system would then not pick my server when looking for a server).  
  What frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the server, 
  then after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus mode.  No 
  new lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to manually join 
  because it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like versus.
  If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it to a 
  coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui.  We 
  would then have to rcon and force a map.  We could set up a coop lobby and 
  hope we get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very low. 
   We could use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might as 
  well just manually change the map.  This doesn't work so well if I'm not 
  around and my friends want to play on my server.  They don't have my 
  password, and I'm not giving it to them (well, one of them does...).
  
  Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon.  The point is I want the 
  server to do a few simple things automatically.  I'm not even asking for 
  something difficult.  I just want the server to obey the maplist file.  
  Anything involving rcon is NOT a solution.  I don't know about you, but I 
  have a full time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a 
  server, injecting commands into it.  Nor do I want to fiddle around with 
  commands while I'm actually playing.  I want the server to be a dedicated 
  coop server, open to the public.  Or, a server open to the public, with a 
  gui option for ANY user to vote for ANY map (including switching between 
  versus and coop maps).
  
  You can't find a solution, can you?  There is none.
  
   Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg 
   files?
   
   Inline responses.
   
What about maplists and map cycles?  Or mission cycles?
   
   Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the
   lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key
   cvar.  This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your
   dedicated server.  If you're finished playing and want to let others find
   your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key 
   cvar
   via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ).
   
What about switching between versus and coop maps?
Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps
in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command
line)?
   
   Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and
   want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command.
   
   For a versus map:
   
   rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop
   
   For a coop map:
   
   rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment
   
   Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name.  If you're interested

Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

Do you know what by design means?
We do not know the intended behavior of anything because we have no 
documentation.
For all we know, there is simply a missing ui component that allows people to 
switch game modes.

For all we know, servers are supposed to obey their maplist files, and lobbies 
requesting a specific map that doesn't exist on a server will not choose that 
server.

I say this because of *drum roll* common sense and logical reasoning.  Ever 
consider custom maps?  The maplist is central to this issue.  Yet now, it is 
completely ignored.

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:38:23 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of
 exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's
 usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those
 things, there would be options to set.
 
 I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical
 reasoning.
 
 On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  Who are you to say that it's by design?  Did you design it?  Were you in on 
  the meetings?
  
  The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the lobby 
  system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular map/mission.
  Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the 
  lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type.
  
  The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were 
  called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially be 
  booted.
  The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that 
  Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching.
  
  
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg 
   files?
   
   These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for
   you.
   
How do I make my server coop or versus only?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?
   You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision 
   making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific 
   BSP files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System 
   tells your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out 
   and sends the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus 
   only play, but is again a huge hack.
   
How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?
   
   Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it sounds 
   like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot and 
   it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop 
   game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game.
   
   
   On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product.
Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame.

I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places.
They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer.

How do I make my server coop or versus only?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?

How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game?
If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission?

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg 
 files?
 
 I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up 
 in
 arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has
 Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release?
 
 The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the
 minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a 
 wiki
 or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things.
 
 On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of 
  documentation.
  This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development.
  
  I don't care if running a server was as simple as:
  
  1:  Download this file.
  2:  Run it.
  
  Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming 
  project.
  Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.  I hope you don't have jobs in 
  the industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a 
  degree in the field.
  
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds

Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

It's not my first server.
Fairly straightforward?  Not a chance.
A lot of conflicting, incomplete info, in many places.  It should be a lot of 
complete, consistent, official info in one place.
The point is there ARE no answers - from Valve or anyone - for a lot of the 
problems people are having.

My server's running fine now, except for the fact that it somehow loads a 
versus map, even though none are in the rotation.
And there's no way in the gui for people to vote for a map of a different type.

 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:48:34 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 You know from time to time we all need help. I see no reason to flame valve
 though. The dedicated servers are fairly straight forward, there is a lot of
 info that can be found in many places about commands etc. All it takes is
 your time to go look as opposed to having the answers just handed to ya. If
 this is your first server ever I can understand that it seems daunting but
 dont be afraid to experiment on the servers, worst case scenario is you
 would have to re install but uh its not brain science or rocket surgery.
 
 On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Blood Letter [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
 
 
  What?  You mean Valve's comments about supporting the server admins aren't
  enough?  You want actual support?
  Valve, you suck at supporting server admins, despite what you say.
 
  I think Valve should host some sample servers, with public config files,
  and throw up some more public config files once in a while to show how to
  do random neat thing.  Seems like an HLDS developer blog is in order...
 
  Barring that, documentation (complete, correct, and unambiguous) please.
  No, not a wiki.
  No, not a list of cvars with missing and ambiguous definitions.
  Documentation.  I'm sure some intern was tasked with compiling napkin
  scrawls and white board scribbles into a semi-cohesive document.
 
  Hell, I still haven't figured out how the actual resolution of the banner
  display space.  It varies according to resolution apparently...
  I could stretch it to fill the space, but then it looks ugly.
  I could pad it, but that looks ugly too.
  (Granted, my mobo died 8 days ago, so I haven't messed with my servers
  since.)
 
  I'll be setting up a server again this weekend.  Hopefully by then the dust
  will have settled, but I doubt it.
 
 
   Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:56:55 -0500
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg
  files?
   
   Careful, frank :) I said the same thing a few weeks ago only to be
  barraged with waah waaah wh what a crybaby type emails flooding the
  list.
  
   But yeah. I agree with you. 100%. Valve *NEEDS* to develop some
  documentation. Rule #1 - Documentation should accompany development, not be
  done after the fact.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Hotte
   Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:50 PM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
  
   Been through HUNDREDS of emails and it's like a guessing game for most
   people to figure out what's what with setting up the servers the way we
  want
   them.
  
   Is it too much to ask to get proper instructions on what commands we need
   for our servers?
  
   I really find this very poorly organized.  You create a multiplayer game,
  at
   least provide us with proper guidance instead of a quick blurp here and
   there.
  
  
   Thanks in advance.
  
  
  
   Busterking
   10-78 Clan Boss
   Visit our website
   Join our forums
   www.10-78.com
   - Original Message -
   From: Alec Sanger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:37 PM
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Mapcycle and VS mode in L4D
  
  
   
I can't seem to get VS only to work, even though I removed the non vs
  maps
from the mapcycle file. Any ideas?
   
   
Thanks Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:17:12 -0700 From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re:
[hlds] Mapcycle and VS mode in L4D  So far removing the maps has
  worked
for me, there is also this  director_no_human_zombies = 1 -
Prevents humans from joining the zombie team  okay, sorry if
this has been answered already.   I'm looking to set up a dedicated
  VS
server and a dedicated COOP server.  Do we know exactly how the cycle
works in regards to maps? It just  removing vs maps from mapcycle
  going
to make it coop only? Anyone tested  any of this? 
_ 
  Color
coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious 
email. 
   
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Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker

[Blood Letter]

Yeah, but your analogy falls apart.
Cheaters don't get money from cheating, so having to buy a new copy of a game 
is a deterrent.
Stealing accounts can get you into serious trouble, and the more often you have 
to do it, the more likely you are to get caught.

VAC and sv_pure go a long way to keep the cheaters out.
Good communication with other admins can fill the gaps quite well.

I honestly don't think there's a better way to handle it, and I've never seen 
VAC give out a false positive.
And if it does, just email Valve.  Odds are others have had the issue, and odds 
are Valve wants to rectify it.

 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:39:32 +0100
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker
 
 The length of the bans does not matter because cheaters are never
 banned, only their account is. It's like taking the robbers shotgun
 away and put it in jail for a year, five years or forever, it does not
 matter, because the robber is still free and will just buy or steal a
 new shotgun. Next day he is back in business.
 
 On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Leonard L. Church
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  Gregory Matherne wrote:
  The logic does hold, the VAC ban is only 1 year, so if you rob a bank you
  are sent to jail for some amount of time.  Durring that time you are
  banned from all other activities. Sounds like a fairly good analog to me.
 
  Actually, VAC bans never go away. Not sure why you think they are only 1
  year long.
 
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Re: [hlds] L4D Community Server Idea - Matchmaking

[Blood Letter]

I would drop the Server Browser Join Enables tag.  Long tags caused people to 
be unable to join from lobbies during the beta.
(Plus, I don't like that tag - why not just Browser Joinable ?)

You might also check to make sure that your server isn't in versus mode.

I found that when my server is in versus mode, it doesn't fill up as quickly or 
as often.

Versus mode is set when a versus map is loaded.
There is no way for users to change a server's map.  They can change the 
campaign, but they can not change the mode (versus or coop).

This sucks, because I'd like to let users pick whatever the hell they want.
I've removed all verses maps from my map cycle.  (Do mapcycles even matter for 
L4D?)



 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:35:38 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Community Server Idea - Matchmaking
 
 
 do you have anything in your configs?
  
 Below is a copy of my config - pretty basic... Just not seeing the numbers I 
 was expecting...
  
 ---
  
  
 // server name hostname Stompfest Chicago ::L4D:: Server 1 
  
 // rcon passsword rcon_password XXX 
  
 // Server password sv_password  
 sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0 sv_tags Server Browser Join Enabled 
  
 // Steam Groupsv_steamgroup 2060
  
 // bandwidth rates/settings
 // execute ban filesexec banned_user.cfgexec banned_ip.cfgwriteidwriteip
  
  
 -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: 
 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:18:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Community Server 
 Idea - Matchmaking  I've got 4 servers full at the moment. They've been 
 full pretty much since launch.  -Original Message- From: [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alec Sanger Sent: 
 Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:58 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
 Subject: Re: [hlds] L4D Community Server Idea - Matchmaking   Anyone elses 
 servers been pretty much empty the whole day? Right after a release it seems 
 like every server fills with ease. I'm not seeing that this time... Maybe 
 it's something in my configs? Should I be avoiding certain lines? 
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Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker

[Blood Letter]

I've run into a few hackers running my TF2 server.
We as server operators must work together to get rid of the riff raff.
To accomplish that, we must be willing to trust each other.

Proof is nice, but the moment you put up a video, you'll have people (just 
for the hell of it) saying Some people are just that good., LOL, you're just 
a noob., U Mad., Could you run these commands and check ..., etc.

The ONLY thing that gets you banned from my servers is hacking (including 
exploiting maps and trying to exploit the server).
I find it is best to deal with these people swiftly, and without recourse.  I 
do not engage them in conversation, nor do I tell them why they were banned.  
If I am not sure they are hacking, I observe them.  If I'm still not sure, I 
assume they aren't.  Usually, hackers just hop from server to server causing 
shit.  It's unlikely I'll see them again, but I do make a note of them in case 
others encounter them.

And before the issue is raised - I fully support public display of the hacker's 
IP and Steam ID.

 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:44:36 +
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Hacker
 
 Why should we bother to ban someone if you can't be bothered to provide 
 evidence?
 
 Ben B wrote:
  people were leaving in droves, i wasn't going to waste time recording a demo
  when it was so obvious.
 
  http://gs1.1.fpsbanana.com/psychostats/player.php?id=2051
 
  look at this stats, 50 snipers kills in 16 minutes, 25 rifle kills, all
  headshots
 
  On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Ferenc Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

  2008/11/20 Ben B [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
  So I wanted to play on my server, 18 poeple on it, filling up... so while

  I
  
  load, this hacker gets on with his aimbot/speed hack as sniper, and
  basically makes most people quit, there are only 5 people remaining when

  I
  
  get in game.
 
  You have no Idea how enraged I was over this, I told him I was giving his
  ID
  to anyone I can find, so here I go.
 
  nicknames: Pitty: like 1000? lol, [COTB]austantacious
  Steam Page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997419331
  STEAM_ID: STEAM_0:1:18576801
  IP: 24.2.199.151
 
  Please ban this pile of crap from all your servers until vac gets him or
  something D:.
 
  --
  From Ben B. (Goerge)
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  please visit:
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  next time get some proof(ineye demo or something).
 
  Tyrael
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  please visit:
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Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?

[Blood Letter]

What?  You mean Valve's comments about supporting the server admins aren't 
enough?  You want actual support?
Valve, you suck at supporting server admins, despite what you say.

I think Valve should host some sample servers, with public config files, and 
throw up some more public config files once in a while to show how to do 
random neat thing.  Seems like an HLDS developer blog is in order...

Barring that, documentation (complete, correct, and unambiguous) please.
No, not a wiki.
No, not a list of cvars with missing and ambiguous definitions.
Documentation.  I'm sure some intern was tasked with compiling napkin scrawls 
and white board scribbles into a semi-cohesive document.

Hell, I still haven't figured out how the actual resolution of the banner 
display space.  It varies according to resolution apparently...
I could stretch it to fill the space, but then it looks ugly.
I could pad it, but that looks ugly too.
(Granted, my mobo died 8 days ago, so I haven't messed with my servers since.)

I'll be setting up a server again this weekend.  Hopefully by then the dust 
will have settled, but I doubt it.


 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:56:55 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 Careful, frank :) I said the same thing a few weeks ago only to be barraged 
 with waah waaah wh what a crybaby type emails flooding the list.
 
 But yeah. I agree with you. 100%. Valve *NEEDS* to develop some 
 documentation. Rule #1 - Documentation should accompany development, not be 
 done after the fact.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Hotte
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:50 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
 
 Been through HUNDREDS of emails and it's like a guessing game for most 
 people to figure out what's what with setting up the servers the way we want 
 them.
 
 Is it too much to ask to get proper instructions on what commands we need 
 for our servers?
 
 I really find this very poorly organized.  You create a multiplayer game, at 
 least provide us with proper guidance instead of a quick blurp here and 
 there.
 
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 
 
 Busterking
 10-78 Clan Boss
 Visit our website
 Join our forums
 www.10-78.com
 - Original Message - 
 From: Alec Sanger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Mapcycle and VS mode in L4D
 
 
 
  I can't seem to get VS only to work, even though I removed the non vs maps 
  from the mapcycle file. Any ideas?
 
 
  Thanks Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:17:12 -0700 From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: 
  [hlds] Mapcycle and VS mode in L4D  So far removing the maps has worked 
  for me, there is also this  director_no_human_zombies = 1 - 
  Prevents humans from joining the zombie team  okay, sorry if 
  this has been answered already.   I'm looking to set up a dedicated VS 
  server and a dedicated COOP server.  Do we know exactly how the cycle 
  works in regards to maps? It just  removing vs maps from mapcycle going 
  to make it coop only? Anyone tested  any of this?  
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[hlds] Changing From Versus To Coop?

[Blood Letter]

So, I'm running my own server with default configs.
I see it fine, and I can join it.
But when we call a vote, we can't change it from Versus to Coop.

???

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Re: [hlds] Status

[Blood Letter]

I'd just like to say that nothing was ever wrong with the custom tab.

The issue was server admins and plugin writers actively working to break the 
tagging system, to avoid going to the custom tab and to keep populations up, 
even if it's people joining and leaving quickly.


 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:51:16 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Status
 
 You have to realise that Valve are forever treading a fine line  
 between the players and the server admins.
 
 If you look at some of the mods being run out there, some of them are  
 actively player-hostile, especially to new players, as the game  
 experience changes semi-randomly. Instant respawn in particular turns  
 many maps into unwinnable meat-grinders.
 
 The custom tab was a laudable effort to help new players get  
 acquainted with the vanilla game before they get assaulted by the  
 variations - but when it proved to be imperfect, they listened and  
 changed.
 
 The fact that they're engaging in a dialogue to try and reach a  
 compromise that suits everyone is what you should be paying attention  
 to, rather than making knee-jerk reactions.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 12 Nov 2008, at 08:25, Timothy L Havener [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 
  I had that hope after the custom tab debacle. I now no longer hold  
  onto
  it. I give up on Valve.
 
  [ЯтR] The-/iller wrote:
  Hopefully its only nibbling in ignorance, as we are they're bread and
  butter, and hopefully it will be balanced in the end, keep console as
  console and PC above it all.
 
  Timothy L Havener wrote:
 
  Where once Valve was an innovator in the way we play online games  
  they
  have no become a force of complete destruction to the way we play PC
  games.  By reverting to a console style server browser they have
  devolved their game into an Idoit's Guide to Online Gaming.  This is
  just another move on the chess board to marginalize server admins  
  and
  take complete control of the gaming experience.  Anyone who  
  doesn't see
  that is blind.  I had a little respect for them left after TF2 and  
  it is
  now gone. Keep pissing off admins, Valve, its always good to bite  
  the
  hand that feeds you.  I'm sure those uneducated gamers out there  
  that
  you are catering to will step up to the plate when all of us are  
  gone.
  Good luck with that.
 
 
 
  Dj Satane wrote:
 
 
  Let me get something straight, Erik wrote:  When a player or two  
  leaves
  Left 4 Dead the game suffers quite a bit, and we were worried  
  that the
  server browser model wasn't the right one for this game.
 
  Erik, you don't explain the matchmaking how it solves the problem  
  you
  are talking about. How does console style matchmaking solves  
  the problem
  of people leaving a left 4 dead game? How does server browser  
  supposedly
  does not solve this problem?
 
  On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Erik Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
  First off, thanks to everyone for running servers for the demo.  
  We knew
  going into the release that we were going to need to figure out  
  some ways to
  make it worth it for server administrators, and now we have a  
  ton of
  feedback to work with.
 
  Right now we're looking at ways that server administrators can  
  both build a
  community around their game server (by subscribing to  
  matchmaking) as well
  as service their group of regulars that play on their server.  
  Hooking game
  servers into Steam Community is going to be our first step, and  
  we're
  working on that now.
 
  There is a key difference between Left 4 Dead and games like  
  Counter-Strike
  and Team Fortress in terms of matchmaking that we wanted to  
  solve, and
  didn't think the server browser could accomplish. In CS and TF2,  
  you can
  have 2 or 3 players leave in the middle of a game, have their  
  slots filled
  by new people, and everyone else's experience doesn't completely  
  suffer.
  When a player or two leaves Left 4 Dead the game suffers quite a  
  bit, and we
  were worried that the server browser model wasn't the right one  
  for this
  game. In hindsight, there are a number of cases where the server  
  browser
  does a better job than the new matchmaking system does, so it is  
  highly
  likely that we'll be adding it back in soon. It isn't trivially  
  easy to turn
  back on, but there is overlap between it and the Steam Community  
  work we'd
  like to do.
 
  Right now we're working toward getting that release out within a  
  week or
  so.
 
  There are a number of Valve employees reading all of the posts  
  on this
  list, and while we can't reply to every question that comes  
  across, the
  discussions here are ones we reference commonly when talking  
  about what to
  do next internally.
 
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Re: [hlds] MATCHMAKING BROWSER

[Blood Letter]

Did he think a vote was being called?
Did he confuse Aye with I?

 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:27:52 +
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] MATCHMAKING BROWSER
 
 Nice input.
 *Goes back to the cool corner*
 
 2008/11/12 brian lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  I
 
 
 
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Re: [hlds] L4D server issue's summery

[Blood Letter]

I was running 2 full servers and CPU usage never got past 2 or 3% on normal 
play, on my old Athlon X2 4600+.
Even running endless panics on expert (I assume the AI is a tad more complex 
and demanding on Expert), CPU usage maxed out at 2 or 3% (combined).

It wasn't until I was messing around and gave my self a few hundred molotovs, 
pipe bombs, and medpacks did my server choke.  It slowed to a crawl when I 
threw a pipe bomb into the mountain of items.  CPU usage jumped to 50% (I guess 
it's not multi-core optimized?  Or at least by default it isn't...) and slowly 
chugged away at finding out where each of those items should go.

I noticed that the framerate is always listed as 21.3 FPS at the top of the 
console.  I'm using default configs.
Is that 21.3 FPS accurate?  It falls to 10 when hibernating.  What are you guys 
getting?  And did you mess with any server-side settings to get it?


(Since my motherboard, or possibly my PSU, bit the dust after an unfortunate 
tripping incident, I won't be able to contribute my 2 servers for the mass 
flood of users tomorrow when the demo goes public.  I hope to be beack online 
in a week or so)



 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:27:35 +0100
 Subject: [hlds] L4D server issue's summery
 
 I thought I'd post a summery of the current issue's we're experiencing with
 L4D as a lot got done in random mails on the list.
 
 Here it goes;
 
 Linux: Can't create more then 4 servers when using normal command line +ip
 +port
 Linux: Can't rcon query servers when -fork is used and +ip is unset
 Linux: (Feature request) per fork configs
 Linux: When more then 5 servers are specified with the -fork option, the 6th
 server will end up at 27025 rather then 27020 (bug or intention?)
 
 Windows: L4D influences FPS on TF2 servers. After a couple of hours of full
 L4D servers the TF2 servers drop down from 500FPS to below 20 permanently
 until L4D servers are rebooted
 Windows: 'status' query won't return current played map
 Windows: Servers will remain empty and have laggy readings when the add
 master server commands are not configured
 
 Some feedback: On our Linux machine when running 4 L4D servers with normal
 options the total CPU load is around 55% and the total mem useage is around
 60%. When using the -fork 6 option the combined CPU load is around 50% and
 the memory load is also around 50% (conclusion, running with -fork makes 2
 more servers possible in the same load).
 
 Cheers,
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Status

[Blood Letter]

I know everyone's excited about getting any sort of response from Valve, but 
the devil's in the details.

What if a server is full of public players, or partially full, and a lobby of 
preferred players wants to join?
How are mutliple preferred groups handled?

I suggest something like the following (you may want to sit down for this one):


This system assumes lobby leaders get to see a server browser and pick
(and reserve if not empty/not enough slots/friends only) a preferred
server, or pick any server that they like, or use the automatic server
matching.

sv_preferred_group_reserve

0 - the server doesn't reserve itself for preferred groups

1 - the server reserves itself for preferred groups

sv_preferred groups
List the Steam groups (similar for Live! ?) you want to give preferred access 
to (in order of preference) and allow the server to reserve space for.

Simple enough.

sv_preferred_group_private_override
0 - if a lobby set to friends only is on the server, members of the
preferred group cannot join until the current group leaves even if the
lobby leader is a friend of one of the current players

1 - if a lobby set to friends only is on the server, members of the preferred 
group cannot join until the current group leaves unless the lobby leader is a 
friend of one of the current players, in which it functions as if it were set 
to 2

2 - if a lobby set to friends only is on the server, members of the preferred 
group can join and fill any open slots (manually individually, or via lobby if 
there are enough slots for the whole lobby).

Details, details.

sv_preferred_group_takeover
0 - if a preferred lobby leader tries to join the lobby to a server that has 
people playing, the current players are given a notice, but are allowed to 
finish and leave at their own pace.  The lobby then gets a reserve (and no new 
players may join the current game), overriding other reserves of less preferred 
groups, and possibly being overridden by a more preferred group (see 
sv_preferred groups).  When the server is empty, the lobby currently holding a 
reserve is joined to the server, if it still exists and has not joined a 
different server.  Otherwise, the reserve is cleared.

1 - if a preferred lobby leader tries to join the lobby to a server that has
people playing, the current players are given a notice, and given count downs 
notifying them of how much time or how many attempts they have left or both 
(see sv_preferred_group_takeover_wipes and sv_preferred_group_takeover_time).  
When either reaches 0, the current players are kicked and the reserved lobby is 
allowed to join.  If the lobby with the reserve disbands or joins another 
server, the reserve is cleared.

2 - if a preferred lobby leader tries to join the lobby to a server
that has
people playing, the current players are given a notice, and given count
downs notifying them of how much time or how many attempts they have
left or both (see sv_preferred_group_takeover_wipes and
sv_preferred_group_takeover_time).  When either reaches 0, the current
players are kicked and the reserved lobby is allowed to join.  If the
lobby with the reserve disbands, the reserve is
cleared.  If the lobby with the reserve joins another server, the reserve is 
kept, and they are given the option of joining the server (by vote).

3 - if a preferred lobby leader tries to join the lobby to a server that has
people playing, the current players are given a notice, and immediately kicked 
out.  The lobby is allowed to join immediately.

sv_preferred_group_takeover_wipes
The number of group wipes (after a takeover is initiated) to wait for until 
clearing the server and letting the preferred lobby join (0 to disable)

sv_preferred_group_takeover_time
The number of minutes (after a takeover is initiated) to
wait for until clearing the server and letting the preferred lobby join
(0 to disable)

Getting tricky.

sv_preferred_group_lobby_reserve_method  (assumes that when a lobby leader 
leaves a lobby, a new lobby leader is chosen if the lobby is not empty)

0 - if a preferred lobby leader joins a server and gets a reserve for the 
lobby, then leaves, the reserve stays.

1- if a preferred lobby leader joins a server and gets a reserve for the lobby, 
then leaves, the reserve stays, but can later be overriden by any preferred 
group's reserve.  A notice is given to the lobby when the reserve is demoted or 
lost.  The lobby leader has the choice of waiting on the current reserve 
(demoted or not), or placing joining another server (via matchmaking or the 
browser).

2 - if a preferred lobby leader joins a server and gets a reserve for the 
lobby, then leaves, the reserve is wiped (a notice is given to the lobby), and 
the lobby will use standard matchmaking, or preferred matchmaking (via the 
current lobby leader) when

Getting complicated.

You can get really complicated with the last one, but I decided to keep it 
simple.
(You can prefer the new lobby leader be someone in one 

[hlds] Custom Models?

[Blood Letter]

Has anyone poked around and started playing with any custom models/materials 
yet?

I personally cannot wait for the following custom models:

Bill - John McCain
Louis - Barack Obama
Zoey - Sarah Palin
Francis - Joe Biden

Replacing dialog with political soundbites would be the icing on the cake.

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Re: [hlds] Explanation of hosting lobby's

[Blood Letter]

I believe that happens when a lobby reserves your server by being set to 
Friends Only and joining your server.

You can't join the serve until it is emptied out, or you run sv_unreserve, or 
you get added to one of the players' friends list, or you kick them all out or 
you restart the server.

 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 14:26:13 -0600
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Explanation of hosting lobby's
 
 yea i get this error message when i attempt to join my server
 
 http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/971/capturemt3.jpg
 
 Eric van Beesten wrote:
  People are connecting to my server... but not me :( 
 
  -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
  Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Matthew Gottlieb
  Verzonden: zondag 9 november 2008 16:08
  Aan: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Onderwerp: Re: [hlds] Explanation of hosting lobby's
 
  Add this to your server's server.cfg:
  setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011
  setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011
 
  The moment I added those lines, people started to join my servers :)
 
  ~ Matt
 
  On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 6:56 AM, AnAkIn . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

  (you have to set that on your client, not on the server)
 
 
  2008/11/9 AnAkIn . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
  sv_search_max_ping 90
 
  or lower, depending of the max ping you can get on your servers.
 
  2008/11/9 Eric van Beesten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Is it just me or is there something wrong with hosting the lobby's? I

  played
  the demo for a few hours now, but I never get assigned to a decent
  
  server
  
  nearby me. Most of my connection is poor. Sometimes all the 4 persons
  player
  have poor connection. If I look at my hlsw I see that a few servers of
  mine
  are waiting for a new lobby. Why do I get assigned to a server far,
  
  far,

  far
  away, while my servers are empty. Yesterday I played on a France
  
  server,

  while I'm dutch. I don't believe that there wasn't any dutch lobby
  available
  during the search.
 
  Halve of my community is play l4d, but I never see anybody on 1 of my 7
  l4d
  servers.
 
  So my question. How does the assignment is going? Is the leader of the
  lobby
  responsible for the choice of dedicated server? Or does this work?
 
 
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[hlds] Lobby Joins Working?

[Blood Letter]

I've got sv_allow_lobby_only 0 (or whatever it is) and sv_unreserve in my 
server.cfg.

I see it in the list
Other people see it in the list
I can join manually
Other people can join manually
I can join manually when people are already in game
Other people can join manually when people are already in game
I can join manually after the server has emptied out
Other people can join manually after the server has emptied out

I have no idea however if people are able to join from the lobby matchmaking 
thing
My server is empty, and I'm concerned that people aren't being matched to it 
via the matchmaker.

Anyway to test this?
If you've been auto-joined to Love Me Sexy, let me know.

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Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?

[Blood Letter]

I do have
setmaster   add 68.142.72.250:27011
setmaster   add 72.165.61.189:27011

in my server.cfg

I'll remove the sv_unreserve line to see what happens.

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:00:53 +
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?
 
 Sv_unreserve kicks out any pending lobby connections.  It's not a setting
 that changes something about the way the server works, it's a one-off
 command.  Assuming you do have the master servers as per the other reply
 (setmaster on its own should tell you what master servers are listed), then
 I'd assume that's the problem.  I don't know how the execution of server.cfg
 and hibernation mode interacts, but what could very well be happening is
 that the lobby system reserves some slots for some players, the server wakes
 up, executes server.cfg which promptly unreserves them again.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds-
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blood Letter
  Sent: 08 November 2008 18:16
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?
  
  
  I've got sv_allow_lobby_only 0 (or whatever it is) and sv_unreserve in
  my server.cfg.
  
  I see it in the list
  Other people see it in the list
  I can join manually
  Other people can join manually
  I can join manually when people are already in game
  Other people can join manually when people are already in game
  I can join manually after the server has emptied out
  Other people can join manually after the server has emptied out
  
  I have no idea however if people are able to join from the lobby
  matchmaking thing
  My server is empty, and I'm concerned that people aren't being matched
  to it via the matchmaker.
  
  Anyway to test this?
  If you've been auto-joined to Love Me Sexy, let me know.
  
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Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?

[Blood Letter]

hostname  Love Me Sexyrcon_password 
passwordsv_allow_lobby_connect_only   0sv_tags   Server 
Browser Join Enabledz_difficulty  impossiblesetmaster
 add 68.142.72.250:27011setmaster add 
72.165.61.189:27011[/CODE]
 
srcds.exe -console -game left4dead -maxplayers 4 +map 
l4d_dem_hospital01_apartment -port 27015 +sv_lan 0[/CODE]
 
My server is never filled with people joining from lobbies...I think.
It's usually empty, and I have a good connection.People can join manually, and 
I've tried both with and without sv_unreserve in my server.cfg.  Forwarding 
ports 27000 - 27020.
 
Also - am I the only one who gets next to ZERO cpu usage on my server, even if 
I'm forcing an endless panic?
What exactly ARE the requirements for running one of these bad boys?  People 
compare it to TF2 24 slots, but what were the reqs for that?
Everyone says this is a CPU hog, and I'm not seeing it - CPU usage near 0 when 
people are actively playing.
(The console reports 21.3 fps all the time though...) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 
21:41:55 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com 
Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?  Can you post your? So we can see 
what could be causing people to not join.  2008/11/8 Alec Sanger [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]can someone with a server that is full 24/7 post their 
exact server.cfg? I  have 2 vanilla servers and 2 browser join servers and 
neither fill 24/7. not  even close. just curious if it's something wrong with 
my configsDate: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 14:14:13 -0600   From: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com   Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby 
Joins Working? Good point. You're probably right. On Sat, 
Nov 8, 2008 at 2:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Sv_unreserve 
kicks out any pending lobby connections. It's not a  settingthat 
changes something about the way the server works, it's a one-off
command. Assuming you do have the master servers as per the other  reply   
 (setmaster on its own should tell you what master servers are listed),  
thenI'd assume that's the problem. I don't know how the execution of  
  server.cfgand hibernation mode interacts, but what could very well 
be happening  isthat the lobby system reserves some slots for some 
players, the serverwakesup, executes server.cfg which promptly 
unreserves them again.-Original Message- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Blood Letter Sent: 08 November 2008 18:16 To: 
hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?   
  I've got sv_allow_lobby_only 0 (or whatever it is) and 
sv_unreserve  in my server.cfg. I see it in the 
list Other people see it in the list I can join manually   
  Other people can join manually I can join manually when people are 
already in game Other people can join manually when people are already 
in game I can join manually after the server has emptied out 
Other people can join manually after the server has emptied out
 I have no idea however if people are able to join from the lobby 
matchmaking thing My server is empty, and I'm concerned that people 
aren't being  matched to it via the matchmaker. 
Anyway to test this? If you've been auto-joined to Love Me Sexy, let 
me know. 
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Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?

[Blood Letter]

Well that failed to format...  here it is again.
 
 
hostname Love Me Sexy
rcon_password password
sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0
sv_tags Server Browser Join Enabled
z_difficulty impossible
setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011
setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011
 
srcds.exe -console -game left4dead -maxplayers 4 +map 
l4d_dem_hospital01_apartment -port 27015 +sv_lan 0
 
My server is never filled with people joining from lobbies...I think.
It's usually empty, and I have a good connection.
People can join manually, and I've tried both with and without sv_unreserve in 
my server.cfg.
Forwarding ports 27000 - 27020.
 
 Also - am I the only one who gets next to ZERO cpu usage on my server, even if 
I'm forcing an endless panic?
What exactly ARE the requirements for running one of these bad boys? People 
compare it to TF2 24 slots, but what were the reqs for that?
Everyone says this is a CPU hog, and I'm not seeing it - CPU usage near 0 when 
people are actively playing.  (The console reports 21.3 fps all the time 
though...)
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Sat, 8 Nov 
 2008 12:51:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?   hostname 
 Love Me Sexyrcon_password passwordsv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0sv_tags 
 Server Browser Join Enabledz_difficulty impossiblesetmaster add 
 68.142.72.250:27011setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011[/CODE]  srcds.exe 
 -console -game left4dead -maxplayers 4 +map l4d_dem_hospital01_apartment 
 -port 27015 +sv_lan 0[/CODE]  My server is never filled with people joining 
 from lobbies...I think. It's usually empty, and I have a good 
 connection.People can join manually, and I've tried both with and without 
 sv_unreserve in my server.cfg. Forwarding ports 27000 - 27020.  Also - am I 
 the only one who gets next to ZERO cpu usage on my server, even if I'm 
 forcing an endless panic? What exactly ARE the requirements for running one 
 of these bad boys? People compare it to TF2 24 slots, but what were the reqs 
 for that? Everyone says this is a CPU hog, and I'm not seeing it - CPU usage 
 near 0 when people are actively playing. (The console reports 21.3 fps all 
 the time though...) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:41:55 +0100 From: [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins 
 Working?  Can you post your? So we can see what could be causing people to 
 not join.  2008/11/8 Alec Sanger [EMAIL PROTECTED]can someone 
 with a server that is full 24/7 post their exact server.cfg? I  have 2 
 vanilla servers and 2 browser join servers and neither fill 24/7. not  even 
 close. just curious if it's something wrong with my configsDate: 
 Sat, 8 Nov 2008 14:14:13 -0600   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com   Subject: Re: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?  
Good point. You're probably right. On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 
 2:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Sv_unreserve kicks out any 
 pending lobby connections. It's not a  settingthat changes 
 something about the way the server works, it's a one-offcommand. 
 Assuming you do have the master servers as per the other  reply
 (setmaster on its own should tell you what master servers are listed),  
 thenI'd assume that's the problem. I don't know how the execution of 
server.cfgand hibernation mode interacts, but what could very 
 well be happening  isthat the lobby system reserves some slots for 
 some players, the serverwakesup, executes server.cfg which 
 promptly unreserves them again.-Original Message-  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: 08 November 2008 18:16 To: 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Lobby Joins Working?  
I've got sv_allow_lobby_only 0 (or whatever it is) 
 and sv_unreserve  in my server.cfg. I see it in 
 the list Other people see it in the list I can join 
 manually Other people can join manually I can join manually 
 when people are already in game Other people can join manually when 
 people are already in game I can join manually after the server has 
 emptied out Other people can join manually after the server has 
 emptied out I have no idea however if people are able to 
 join from the lobby matchmaking thing My server is empty, 
 and I'm concerned that people aren't being  matched to it via the 
 matchmaker. Anyway to test this? If you've been 
 auto-joined to Love Me Sexy, let me know. 
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Re: [hlds] More players with no server.cfg

[Blood Letter]

sv_unreserve wipes any reserves on your server.
It is not a setting, it is a command.

Running it when your server first starts up fixes an issue that people had when 
trying to join servers (I forget the error message).

 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 17:02:44 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] More players with no server.cfg
 
 Well for starters you have sv_tags Server Browser Join Enabled but
 that's a lie because you do not have sv_unreserve anywhere in your
 server.cfg so your server is reserved only for the lobby and you're just
 annoying people who see those tags and can't join due to reservation.
 
 On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Steven Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  WOW this is turning into some wiered shit, I have been having some problems
  with my L4D server, by that I mean a lack of players joining, on my home
  server I start it and people join with in seconds (literally 4/4 within
  about 5 seconds) however on my externally hosted server it can go for hours
  unpopulated. My hope server by default game with no server.cfg, no I decided
  to delete it on my external server too and what do you know, 4/4 in 5
  seconds after a restart. My server.cfg is:
 
  // Server Name
  hostname*=Consolespot.net=* 4Slot Kill Factory
 
  // Rcon Cvars
  rcon_password xx //Set's remote control password
 
  // Server Password
  sv_password  // Password protects server
 
  // Server Cvars
  mp_disable_autokick 1 //Prevents a userid from being auto-kicked
  sv_allow_color_correction 0 //Allow or disallow clients to use color
  correction on this server.
  sv_allow_wait_command 0 //Allow or disallow the wait command on clients
  connected to this server.
  sv_alltalk 1 //Players can hear all other players, no team restrictions
  sv_alternateticks 0 //If set, server only simulates entities on even
  numbered ticks.
  sv_cheats 0 //Allow cheats on server
  sv_clearhinthistory 0 //Clear memory of server side hints displayed to the
  player.
  sv_consistency 1 //Whether the server enforces file consistency for
  critical files
  sv_contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] //Contact email for server sysop
  sv_downloadurl  //Location from which clients can download missing files
  sv_pausable 0 //Is the server pausable.
 
  // Lan or internet play, Server region cvars
  sv_lan 0 //Server is a lan server ( no heartbeat, no authentication, no
  non-class C addresses )
  sv_region 3 // Region Codes: 0 - US East coast, 1 - US West coast, 2 -
  South America, 3 - Europe, 4 - Asia, 5 - Australia, 6 - Middle East, 7 -
  Africa, 255 - world
 
  // HTTP Redirect
  sv_downloadurl http://maps.killercreation.co.uk/maps/customers/eatit/L4D;
 
  // Server Logging
  sv_log_onefile 0 //Log server information to only one file.
  sv_logbans 1 //Log server bans in the server logs.
  sv_logecho 0 //Echo log information to the console.
  sv_logfile 1 //Log server information in the log file.
  sv_logflush 0 //Flush the log file to disk on each write (slow).
  sv_logsdir logs //Folder in the game directory where server logs will be
  stored.
 
  //Server Rates
  sv_maxcmdrate 100 //(If sv_mincmdrate is  0), this sets the maximum value
  for cl_cmdrate.
 
  // Show server in public server browser
  sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0
 
  //Game Difficulty
  z_difficulty Hard
 
  //Additional Cvars
  sv_tags Server Browser Join Enabled
 
  //Add to Master Server
  setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011
  setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011
  setmaster add 69.28.151.162:27011
  setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011
 
  Can anyone see if anything is wrong here which could cause my server not to
  be populated with it in?
 
  Thanks
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers - rate limits needed

[Blood Letter]

I see very little bandwidth usage on my servers.

 25 KB/sec on average when running 2 full ones.

And yeah, removing the sv_tags line got people joining from lobbies IMMEDIATELY.

I'm more interested in CPU usage.  Just running an old Athlon X2 4600+ and it 
averages 0% CPU usage for 2 servers with people playing.
It'll spike up a bit, sure, but it never becomes an issue.  From the looks of 
it, I could easily run 4 or 5 servers on my machine and connection.  (128 
KB/sec up rated, usually get around 135)

Others report the exact opposite, so I'm not sure what's going on.
I have played on my server and everything is peachy keen.



 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 15:37:15 -0800
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers - rate limits needed
 
 
 I did some additional testing and was able to confirm that each player 
 requires (worst-case) just a bit over 10K Bytes/sec from the server.
 
 This means that 4 players will demand 40K Bytes per second from the server 
 which is a slight overload on my DSL line.
 
 10 full servers, worst-case 40 players would therefore use 40 * 10K Bytes = 
 400K Bytes/sec or ~3.28 MBits of actual network usage, assuming a zombie 
 rush on all 10 servers at the same time (might happen!).
 
 It turns out however that the real problem is that when my DSL line hits the 
 uplink max, the dsl modem chokes and this is what was causing the massive 
 lag that players were reporting.
 
 To verify this, I ran pingplotter and then ran the L4D server and tracked 
 how many players were on and the network usage.
 
 2 players were fine.
 4 players was bad
 3 players were ok to marginal( I suspect the server query overhead can push 
 this over the limit).
 
 I captured a very good graph of what is happening (annotated) here:
 http://qsextreme.com/L4D/l4d_bandwidth_test.PNG
 
 Checking my DSL line on http://DSLReports.com/tools confirms my performance 
 numbers:
 
 http://www.dslreports.com/im/60743484/26519.png
 
 Speed Test #60743484 by dslreports.com
 Run: 2008-11-08 18:14:15 EST
 Download: 1297 (Kbps)
 Upload: 322 (Kbps)
 
 In kilobytes per second: 158.4 down 39.3 up
 
 One thing I did that slightly improved my dsl performance was adjust the MTU 
 for my line, I wrote a little discovery tool that lets you see exactly what 
 is going on there:
 
 http://qsextreme.com/mtutest
 
 It's disappointing that the DSL line chokes like that but from past 
 experience with Covad there is nothing I can do short of moving to a new 
 apartment.
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Richard Eid
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers - rate limits needed
 
 
 I have two, always full, L4D Demo servers going right now on my 5000/512
  connection.  I've found that even at intense moments, my upload rarely 
  hits
  500kb/s and for the few times that it's peaked above that, there were no
  stutters on the either of the servers.  I'm really very surprised at the
  relatively low bandwidth usage, even for only 4 players.  The people 
  playing
  on my servers stay for hours at a time.  That and the communication I do
  with those players tells me that they are enjoying great gameplay from my
  servers.
 
  While I do miss the rate settings, I'm wondering if a lot of what we know
  has been limited just for the demo.
 
 -Richard Eid
 
 
  On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:46 PM,  wrote:
 
  384kbits for 1 server equals, if I'm not mistaken, 480biloBYTES for 10 
  full
  servers.  I have 10 full l4d servers, and the box is only doing 186kB
  upload
  total, and it's a general purpose box so I've no idea what else is using
  the line currently.
 
  My conclusion is that your performance problems are _not_ related to your
  internet link rate.  Are you sure your upload is being maxed out by the
  server?  I'd be more inclined to look at latency issues myself.
 
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds-
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Ottalini
   Sent: 08 November 2008 09:30
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers - rate limits needed
  
   Ah, I've been looking at it strictly from a server pov not a client,
   indeed the client appears locked at 30 up/down.
  
   So the bottom line is that a 4-player server uses more then 384kbits
   uplink, ouch.
  
   ty Anakin.
  
   - Original Message -
   From: AnAkIn .
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:13 AM
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers - rate limits needed
  
The maximum updaterate and cmdrate are 30 (because the server fps
   never
exceed 30 on L4D), so setting them to 100 shouldn't make a
   difference.
   

[hlds] Answers

[Blood Letter]

The main thing hurting this demo right now is the lack of stable dedicated 
servers.

I'm sure everyone at Valve is extremely busy right now, but if they want to 
make a good impression when the demo goes public (Gamestop accepting blank 
submissions aside...), they need to communicate with server operators.

The lobby system is great for finding people to play with.
I wish the friends list showed them grouped together when they were in the same 
lobby.
We need to see pings!  A ping chart (4x4, or 8x8 for versus) would be nice as 
well (when in a lobby).
These are minor details that can be addressed later

The lobby system is horrible for finding a server to play on.
If you know of a dedicated server that is stable, or have one that you run, you 
should be able, as the lobby leader, to join your group to it, add your group 
to a queue for that server, or give it and other servers you like favorable 
treatment in the random selection process.
We also need to be able to confirm we want to join the selected server.  No 
joining a random server only to be killed by a password prompt.  No scraping 
the bottom of the ping barrel because it was the only server avilable.  No 
joining a random server that has friendly fire modded out (it's only a matter 
of time) or other things modified without you knowing it.

This all needs to be in the standard UI with the standard server configs, not 
hidden in a console command and requiring server variables to be modified (from 
default).  As it is, people are blindly struggling with server variables and 
command lines.  Is this variable behaving properly?  Is it a bug?  Is it a demo 
restriction?  Is it the intended behavior of the lobby/matchmaking system? 

For the purposes of the demo, I'd like to see:
An official comment on how to manually join a server (either as an individual, 
or once you're in a lobby).
An official comment on how to set your server up to allow or disallow (allow 
should be default) manual joining and auto joining.
An official comment on how to password your server and prevent it from showing 
up in the list or being randomly selected.

Each of the above has been figured out by people on this list, and I'll be 
wading through tons of emails this weekend when I set up my server, I'm sure.  
But this is what needs to be addressed officially now.  Stable dedicated 
servers aren't exactly easy to come by.  It really hurts the demo, and it hurts 
people's perception of the game (as server operators and as players).

On a side note - has any tried throwing party mode at this yet?

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Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?

[Blood Letter]

z_difficulty = Impossible

should work, right?
It's starting at normal still...

 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:57:22 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
 
 Or:
 
 find difficulty
 
 -Richard Eid
 
 
 On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Robert Whelan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  all the info is at ur finger tips...
 
  console:-
 
  cvarlist sv
 
 
 
  
  From: Brian D'Arcy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 7:21:32 PM
  Subject: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
 
  Does anyone have the cvar for setting the difficulty level via server.cfg?
 
  I'd like to setup a few private servers with varying difficulty levels.
 
  Thanks,
 
  X
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Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?

[Blood Letter]

z_difficulty impossible works
z_difficulty Impossible didn't
(I didn't have the = sign)

 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 18:26:51 -0800
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
 
 ummm... maybe if ya dont use the = :p
 
 z_difficulty  Impossible
 
 or
 
 z_difficulty  Impossible
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Blood Letter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 8:13:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
 
 
 z_difficulty = Impossible
 
 should work, right?
 It's starting at normal still...
 
  Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:57:22 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
  
  Or:
  
  find difficulty
  
 -Richard Eid
  
  
  On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Robert Whelan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   all the info is at ur finger tips...
  
   console:-
  
   cvarlist sv
  
  
  
   
   From: Brian D'Arcy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 7:21:32 PM
   Subject: [hlds] Setting difficulty in server.cfg?
  
   Does anyone have the cvar for setting the difficulty level via server.cfg?
  
   I'd like to setup a few private servers with varying difficulty levels.
  
   Thanks,
  
   X
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[hlds] Banner Issues

[Blood Letter]

So I've got my 500x100 banner here:
http://waitillfixit.com/l4d/banner.png

My host.txt is just that link.
In the game, the banner shows up, but is shifter down and to the right about 10 
pixels...
Also, after a few seconds, the MOTD (http://waitillfixit.com/l4d/motd.html) 
page disappears and is replaced with just the banner.

Any ideas?

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Re: [hlds] Master Server list and Beetles Mod

[Blood Letter]

I'm using beetle'smod and it's fine for me...

Could you post your default.cfgs and beetlesmod.cfg?
Also, disable any map-specific (cpmaps.cfg, ctf_well.cfg, whatever) config 
files if you have them.  (Just to narrow down the problem more quickly)



 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:29:10 -0400
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] Master Server list and Beetles Mod
 
 Hello
 
  I have been using Beetlesmod and the servers do not show on the Master
 Server list. When Beetlesmod is turned off the servers show in the MSL. I
 thought it was just me but i have been talking to server regulars and others
 that also say the dont find my servers in the list, Is any one else having
 issues with this or know of a fix? I have been to The Beetlesmod forum but
 the help there is, not to be rude, lacking.
 
 Thanks in advance
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Re: [hlds] Master Server list and Beetles Mod

[Blood Letter]

I was not aware beetlesmod HAD a tag blocker...

...



 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:31:02 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Master Server list and Beetles Mod
 
 Turn off the tag blocker.
 
 Clyde cide wrote:
  Hello
 
   I have been using Beetlesmod and the servers do not show on the Master
  Server list. When Beetlesmod is turned off the servers show in the MSL. I
  thought it was just me but i have been talking to server regulars and others
  that also say the dont find my servers in the list, Is any one else having
  issues with this or know of a fix? I have been to The Beetlesmod forum but
  the help there is, not to be rude, lacking.
 
  Thanks in advance
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Re: [hlds] The new tagging system

[Blood Letter]

I doubt it.
Custom server operators tend to like to hide the fact that they have 
fast/instant respawn, plugins, etc.

There were plugins developed (and widely used) with a single function - 
block/override the tagging system.

I run fast respawn, have custom maps, use Beetle's Mod, and have reserved slots.

My tag only says Fast Respawn (assuming it's working, I never checked).

Custom maps aren't in my rotation (they have to be voted on or manually loaded 
by an admin), and I have a fast download server set up.
Reserved slots are off until a person with a slot (which is anyone who takes 
the time to ask for one) wants in - all 24 slots are usable and auto-join works 
for people with slots and people without slots.

With the automatic tagging system, I never had to worry about what I should 
include (I never overrode it).  Now, I have to worry about whether it's right 
for me to not list the fact that I have reserved slots or that yes, you may 
have to spend up to 2 minutes downloading a custom map if someone votes it in.





 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:48:26 -0600
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] The new tagging system
 
 It's not perfect, but it is better than the custom tag.
 
 Also, you need to give it some time.  It will take time before plugins that
 affect gameplay get the tags added, server admins update to new versions,
 etc.
 
 My latest plugin adds the tags itself automatically, as do many of the
 latest SM plugins.  As the instaspawn plugin authors update the plugins (and
 hopefully add the tags) you'll see more and more of the servers being marked
 that way.
 
 
 On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:05 AM, SakeFox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I will admit it I didn't read all of it, but i did read the first few
  paragraphs.
 
  A while back when people complained about the custom tab and wanted a
  filter system and could still use tags. I made a comment that it
  wouldn't work either. Unfortently the way that these mods work I don't
  see a way for valve to really help these issues. With the custom tabs
  there was the idle threat that you would be delisted, but that never
  went anywhere. now you might as well remove the tags altogether since
  they still server no purpose. Servers even after they got rid of the
  custom tabs are still trying to cheat the system.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Server Bandwidth Help?

[Blood Letter]

darkstarllc.com is what I use now.  I'd give them a B.
I've had good luck with leetservers.com in the past, but the price is up there. 
 I'd give them an A.

Won't go into details here though.


 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:06:37 -0400
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Bandwidth Help?
 
 yeah, i think im going to look at AOWC. Do you know any cheap hosting
 providers?
 
 On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Neonicacid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Yeah, setting up an sv_downloadurl to stream in custom files from
  a webserver / remote server is going to be a must.. 500kbps is only going
  to
  max out at around 62.5KBps, so loading files of significant size to your
  clients will take a very long time.. As for the number of players, I would
  say that under 10 is going to be where you'd end up.. Whenever I am playing
  on a server (100tick) I am usually getting about 6-10KBps from the server,
  so spreading that out to 10 clients would mean that you would be having to
  put out at least 100KBps over your wire, which just isn't possible.. If
  it's
  within your price point you might consider looking at getting a hosting
  provider, since they usually offer great network speeds opposed to running
  it off of a home(?) connection...
 
  Hope this helps,
  ~Neonicacid
 
 
  On 8/24/08, John Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   I'm not quite sure, but with a limited upstream like that I'd use another
   server to host the maps / textures / etc.
  
   On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Jake E [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
How many people could fit on a server with a 500kbps upstream?
Custom Files = YES.
   
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Re: [hlds] Arena maps

[Blood Letter]

So wait - you're saying we can kill off the entire config_arena.cfg?

I've got 5 lines - hostname, rcon password, max players, timelimit, server 
password.
All are the same as in server.cfg.

If I completely comment out arena.cfg I should be fine?



 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
 You can go back and forth. It works perfectly fine, just make sure in 
 the config_arena.cfg that you comment out any lines that won't apply to 
 your server (and that probably means all 3 of them.)
 
 David Ulbrich wrote:
  So can you go from a normal amp to an arena map and then back again or you 
  can only go arena or normal?  How does this work?
   
  -VM
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Re: [hlds] Arena maps

[Blood Letter]

So server,cfg gets executed, then, if it's an arena map, config_arena.cfg gets 
executed.
Any conflicting values are overwritten.

So the cause of the problem (stuck at waiting for players) is some setting in 
server.cfg (as suspected).
What that setting is, I don't know yet...


 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:56:24 -0400
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
 yes. whatever is in the config_arena.cfg file will just over write your 
 settings when a arena map is loaded. so without it they will be your 
 normal settings.
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  So wait - you're saying we can kill off the entire config_arena.cfg?
 
  I've got 5 lines - hostname, rcon password, max players, timelimit, server 
  password.
  All are the same as in server.cfg.
 
  If I completely comment out arena.cfg I should be fine?
 
 
 

  Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
  You can go back and forth. It works perfectly fine, just make sure in 
  the config_arena.cfg that you comment out any lines that won't apply to 
  your server (and that probably means all 3 of them.)
 
  David Ulbrich wrote:
  
  So can you go from a normal amp to an arena map and then back again or 
  you can only go arena or normal?  How does this work?
   
  -VM
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Re: [hlds] Arena maps

[Blood Letter]

It's not set at all in any config file, so it's at whatever the default is 
(15?).

sv?  nf?  rep?

Never understood what each of those were  (I've also seen a).  I presume sv 
is server variable.  Google is useless.

Arena maps are working now, but I have to have a blown-out server.cfg.
I'll add stuff piece by piece to see what breaks it I guess.





 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:14:36 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
 tf_arena_preround_time   : 10   : , sv, nf, 
 rep : Length of the Pre-Round time
 
 This value is set correctly on your server, right? Just checking.
 
 Blood Letter wrote:
  So server,cfg gets executed, then, if it's an arena map, config_arena.cfg 
  gets executed.
  Any conflicting values are overwritten.
 
  So the cause of the problem (stuck at waiting for players) is some setting 
  in server.cfg (as suspected).
  What that setting is, I don't know yet...
 
 

  Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:56:24 -0400
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
  yes. whatever is in the config_arena.cfg file will just over write your 
  settings when a arena map is loaded. so without it they will be your 
  normal settings.
 
  Blood Letter wrote:
  
  So wait - you're saying we can kill off the entire config_arena.cfg?
 
  I've got 5 lines - hostname, rcon password, max players, timelimit, 
  server password.
  All are the same as in server.cfg.
 
  If I completely comment out arena.cfg I should be fine?
 
 
 


  Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Arena maps
 
  You can go back and forth. It works perfectly fine, just make sure in 
  the config_arena.cfg that you comment out any lines that won't apply to 
  your server (and that probably means all 3 of them.)
 
  David Ulbrich wrote:
  
  
  So can you go from a normal amp to an arena map and then back again or 
  you can only go arena or normal?  How does this work?
   
  -VM
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Re: [hlds] The new tagging system

[Blood Letter]

Circle-x servers are anything but vanilla...

 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:48:35 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] The new tagging system  
 I'd call my servers vanilla as well. Valve classifies them that way too,  
 but we do run all-talk and custom maps.  
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[hlds] A Heavy Update

[Blood Letter]

Hey Valve,

Can we get an update on the update?  Specifically...

Are you still on track for releasing sometime today?
Will we be given an advance warning as the time draws nearer?

I fully expect to find out the update is released, drop my sandvich, and go 
into typical panic mode updating servers and maplists and motds and making sure 
beetle'smod / metamod / whatever doesn't crash, only to find out it does.

Users will be banging on the gates, sending me dozens of messages along the 
lines of:
Is it updated? (Almost...)
When will it be updated? (When the updater finishes...)
It crashed just now!  (I know, I know!)
Is there a second update for the crash or is it the plugin's fault?  (I don't 
know the patcher got stuck and then said 5746529852% and then I patched again 
and it said it was fine.  It's probably the plugin.)
Is it okay if we achievement farm? (No, but you're free to play like morons 
and just have fun.)



I know everyone (Developers, server admins, and players) is excited, and I know 
everyone's hard at work making sure things go smoothly, so I appreciate any 
info you can give us.

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