from:"MF\-Warburg"

The script exists and is being used.

Gerard Meijssen  schrieb am Mo., 14. Aug. 2023,
20:47:

> Hoi,
> You can not really write a script when it is incomplete. Script conversion
> can come in several ways including dictionary based but it starts with the
> expression of the writing and that means script.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 18:03, MF-Warburg  wrote:
>
>> I think the issue here is not with fonts or Unicode, but with the fact
>> that the language is written in two different scripts, which don't have
>> (and maybe can't have) a script converter between them.
>>
>> Am So., 6. Aug. 2023 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Gerard Meijssen <
>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> In the past the Wikimedia Foundation paid for the development of
>>> characters that became part of Unicode. Missing characters in an existing
>>> characterser are "easy. More complicated is to populate fonts withe these
>>> added characters..At the time the design of a non-Unicode font was used
>>> with permission.
>>> thanks,
>>>  Gerard
>>>
>>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 at 16:22, Mark Williamson  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's actually possible to automatically convert between Devanagari and
>>>> Urdu scripts, but it would require quite a lot of work. It's not a trivial
>>>> task with straightforward character-to-character correspondences like
>>>> Serbian, but it is possible and it has been done (not within Wikimedia, but
>>>> by researchers in India)
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 4:21 AM MF-Warburg 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please see the comment signed Ameen Akbar at <
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Haryanvi
>>>>> >.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be only one ISO code but two (incompatible?) writing
>>>>> systems. Thoughts?
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
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[Langcom] Re: Fwd: Re: Proposed approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia

I don't have reservations anymore if we can get verification.

Am Mi., 26. Juli 2023 um 13:35 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> It seems fine to me. The activity for July is really high. Do you still
> have some reservations, MF-Warburg (or others, for that matter)?
>
> In any case, the language will need verification. I will ask Sadik
> (User:Shahadusadik) if he has any connections we can ask.
>
> tir. 20. juni 2023 kl. 12:33 skrev MF-Warburg :
>
>> Forwarding to the list as I believe that was the intended target - and
>> thanks for the info!
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> Von: Mark Williamson 
>> Date: Di., 20. Juni 2023 um 03:22 Uhr
>> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia
>> To: 
>>
>>
>> Yes, there is an ongoing editathon focused on Ghanaian members of
>> Parliament, at least in the Kusaal test-wiki. See here:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://incubator.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kus/8th_Parliament_of_the_4th_Republic_of_Ghana
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023, 2:03 PM MF-Warburg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This project too has a large percentage of its articles about members of
>>> parliament (though less than Kusaal). Is there some recommendation flowing
>>> around to concentrate on such articles?
>>>
>>> Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:56 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <
>>> jhs...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to propose the approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia (Wp/dga)
>>>> [1]. The activity has been high and stable since its inception in March,
>>>> with several active users each month. The localization of the most used
>>>> messages is also complete [3].
>>>>
>>>> We will need verification because this is the first Wikimedia project
>>>> in this language, but I think Sadik can help us with that.
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/dga
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/dga=incubatorwiki
>>>> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/dga
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> mvh
>>>> Jon Harald Søby
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Igala Wikipedia

New look at the content - the content imbalance seems to have disappeared,
but now a lot of articles I randomly open have large chunks in English.

Am Di., 1. Aug. 2023 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Tochi Precious <
tochiprecio...@gmail.com>:

> Thank you Jon
> I would recommend we go ahead. Probably the type of content they have at
> the moment is what is most important to their audience.
>
>
>
> Tochi
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:40 AM Jon Harald Søby  wrote:
>
>> Their activity has continued on even stronger in July.
>>
>> I don't feel the content imbalance is a problem; it would be nice to see
>> more variation in the type of content that is covered, but that will come
>> with time. As long as the activity is strong, I'm not worried.
>>
>> Shall we go ahead with the approval?
>>
>>
>>
>> tor. 22. juni 2023 kl. 08:32 skrev Sotiale Wiki :
>>
>>> I got an impression similar to what MF-Warburg felt.
>>> Their activity appears to be stable, so I think they can improve enough
>>> in a short time.
>>>
>>> Sotiale
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
>>>  바이러스가
>>> 없습니다.www.avast.com
>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
>>> <#m_-2672182608996138318_m_-6512400877061960905_m_-1339218538730517599_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>> 2023년 6월 20일 (화) 오전 6:15, MF-Warburg 님이 작성:
>>>
>>>> Here again I notice a content imbalance - most articles seem to be
>>>> about actors, and there are only about 160 of them.
>>>>
>>>> Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <
>>>> jhs...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to propose the approval of the Igala Wikipedia (Wp/igl)
>>>>> [1]. The activity has been high and stable since they properly got started
>>>>> back in January [2], and the localization of the most used messages is
>>>>> almost complete (only a few messages remaining) [3].
>>>>>
>>>>> We will need verification since this is the first Wikimedia project in
>>>>> this language.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/igl
>>>>> [2]
>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/igl=incubatorwiki
>>>>> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/igl
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> mvh
>>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Haryanvi - script issues

I think the issue here is not with fonts or Unicode, but with the fact that
the language is written in two different scripts, which don't have (and
maybe can't have) a script converter between them.

Am So., 6. Aug. 2023 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> In the past the Wikimedia Foundation paid for the development of
> characters that became part of Unicode. Missing characters in an existing
> characterser are "easy. More complicated is to populate fonts withe these
> added characters..At the time the design of a non-Unicode font was used
> with permission.
> thanks,
>  Gerard
>
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 at 16:22, Mark Williamson  wrote:
>
>> It's actually possible to automatically convert between Devanagari and
>> Urdu scripts, but it would require quite a lot of work. It's not a trivial
>> task with straightforward character-to-character correspondences like
>> Serbian, but it is possible and it has been done (not within Wikimedia, but
>> by researchers in India)
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 4:21 AM MF-Warburg  wrote:
>>
>>> Please see the comment signed Ameen Akbar at <
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Haryanvi
>>> >.
>>>
>>> There seems to be only one ISO code but two (incompatible?) writing
>>> systems. Thoughts?
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>>>
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[Langcom] "Global Council" discussions

I have noticed that at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Responsibilities_and_associated_Powers>,
it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for
oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So
far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.

My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies
there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just
wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be
worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal
that is backed by the consensus of the committee.
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[Langcom] Bangladeshi Meitei

2023-08-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Similar problem to the previous email (I think). See <
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Wp/mni-beng_as_a_test_wiki
>.

In this case, I think the best solution might be that we encourage the
community to obtain a separate ISO 639-3 code, as the language(s) also seem
to have other differences apart from the writing system.
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[Langcom] Haryanvi - script issues

2023-08-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Please see the comment signed Ameen Akbar at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Haryanvi
>.

There seems to be only one ISO code but two (incompatible?) writing
systems. Thoughts?
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[Langcom] Re: Georgian Wikisource

2023-08-04 Thread MF-Warburg

I have to agree with Sotiale. With the current activity, we can't approve
it. I'm open to discuss the specifics of Wikisource though. But as of now,
there seem to be no Georgian users interested in at least accompanying the
switch to a separate wiki, which will always need at least some adjustments
to be done. As I said previously, someoen also needs to be willing to do
the "upkeep" on a separate wiki. And already the content is perfectly
accessible (without prefixes) on the multilingual Wikisource.

Am Fr., 4. Aug. 2023 um 13:12 Uhr schrieb Nataliia Tymkiv <
ntym...@wikimedia.org>:

> True, that community activities are important, and I think that it is
> important to approve all other projects. But Wikisource is a very different
> project, where the value would be even in its passive existence. When there
> are text available in that language -- and there are already a few of them
> -- the chances of a community being drawn to it are bigger. But in any case
> value for readers is really big. Maybe the rules should be different for
> Wikisource because of its different nature (no original text, basically)?
>
> Best regards,
> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working
> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You
> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in
> advance!*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:19 AM Sotiale Wiki  wrote:
>
>> I am negative for approval. Whether a community is sustainable is very
>> important, and this has been a consistent criterion.
>> Of course, it may be a separate issue that this takes into account the
>> nature of the Wikisource project, but at least for now, no argument has
>> been made that it should be taken into account.
>>
>> If it's just because there are a lot of pages, we should approve all of
>> them if they've been contributing continuously for a long time from a small
>> number of users. Or even if there are no such users.
>> Betawikiversity has a Vietnamese language project with 3211 pages, which
>> also needs to be approved according to the same criteria. But no one is
>> running this project right now. I don't think it's appropriate for this
>> wikiversity incubating project to have an independent domain. And the
>> Georgian Wikisource also seems to be in a situation that is not very
>> different when looking at recent activities.
>>
>> I haven't found a good reason to change these acceptance criteria or
>> consistency. If this is approved, there must be a convincing explanation
>> for the approval of the project despite questioning the sustainability of
>> the community. Otherwise, we face demands from numerous projects to be
>> individual and to recognize exceptions.
>>
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 2023년 8월 4일 (금) 오후 3:38, Tochi Precious 님이 작성:
>>
>>> I totally agree as well.
>>> Let's move this forward.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 6:36 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
 Can we go back to this, please, and approve the Georgian Wikisource?
 It's huge, probably the largest in the multilingual Wikisource. It's
 strange to keep a language with so many pages on the multilingual site. And
 there are waves of activity, too.

 --
 Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
 http://aharoni.wordpress.com
 ‪“We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


 ‫בתאריך שבת, 26 במרץ 2022 ב-6:42 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
 mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> No, it doesn't fulfill the activity requirements currently. Approving
> makes no sense if there is no community who wants to do the "upkeep" on a
> separate wiki, when the content is perfectly accessible (without prefixes)
> on the multilingual Wikisource.
>
> I would be interested to hear from the users who contributed this year
> and what they think, though. Have they already been contacted?
>
> I only see that the user who made the most contributions (but is now
> inactive) has been contacted some years ago by Steven, but it seems like
> there was no response (<
> https://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Giakosh#Question%3A_Are_you_interested_in_trying_to_get_a_separate_subdomain_for_Georgian_Wikisource%3F
> >).
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Do., 24.
> März 2022, 20:00:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Can we perhaps approve Georgian Wikisource already? :)
>>
>> It has LOTS of pages in the Multilingual Wikisource, and recently,
>> they were recategorized.
>>
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/?title=Georgian=1=sourceswiki
>>
>> I can't think of a reason to keep it there.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>

[Langcom] Re: [Private Langcom] Approval for Sundanese Wikisource

2023-07-13 Thread MF-Warburg

Fine by me. (Sending to the public list as well, this doesn't need to be on
the private one)

Am Mi., 12. Juli 2023 um 16:06 Uhr schrieb Satdeep Gill <
satdeepg...@gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> I think Sundanese Wikisource is ready to become a new Wikisource. Request
> on Meta Wiki
> .
> For more than five months, there are ample contributions
> 
> from at-least 3-4 contributors per month.
>
> FYI, there is a Sundanese Wikipedia already.
>
> Best
> Satdeep
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[Langcom] Re: Action required!

2023-07-13 Thread MF-Warburg

I'm seeing such a mail quoted in a mail sent by you on May 1. It seems like
it was rejected from the list.

I am hoping also some other langcom members can comment on the Montenegrin
issue. However, as I and others have said in the past discussions, there is
nothing particularly new about the arguments that were brought in the
discussions in this year, and therefore there has also not been a decision
to make Montenegrin eligible.

Am Do., 13. Juli 2023 um 17:34 Uhr schrieb inl :

> Dear LangCom,
> By now I understood that my attempts to officially communicate with you
> will probably be futile, but let's add another one to the archive.
> This time, I'd like to get info about my mail sent on 29. April from
> address ivan...@yahoo.com, as a reply to the "Montenegrin - ineligible?"
> discussion.
> If the letter is already approved and I failed to find it in the thread,
> please explain where it is.
> If the email is already rejected, please resend an explanation why that
> happened, I didn't find it in my inbox (or spam folder).
> If it is held on the gate of the LangCom mailing list without either
> approval or rejection, please review it and send me a notification about a
> decision, as expected based on the auto message I received. Kindly add an
> explanation on why it took so long.
> Looking forward to your answer,
> (unrealistically optimistic) Ivana Novaković-Leković
> @Millodarka
>
>
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[Langcom] Re: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions

2023-06-28 Thread MF-Warburg

Have you gotten any replies from the Sylheti community about this?

Am Do., 15. Juni 2023 um 09:03 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hello, Amiu, and thank you for pointing this out! This is indeed something
> we should look into before making a final approval. The fact that there is
> an existing open-source converter looks promising, and hopefully we can
> adapt this to MediaWiki quite easily. I'll reach out to the Sylheti
> community to ask for their input as well.
>
> tor. 15. juni 2023 kl. 07:58 skrev MF-Warburg :
>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> Von: Ami Keu 
>> Date: Mi., 14. Juni 2023 um 23:21 Uhr
>> Subject: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
>> To: 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Ami Keu 
>> Date: Wed, 14 June, 2023 at 10:05 PM
>> Subject: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
>> To: jhs...@wikimedia.no 
>>
>>
>> Hi Jon,
>> I don't know if this is the correct email to write this.
>>
>> Thank you for initiating approval for Sylheti Wikipedia
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/TKDRS64F5NW2BQBCT4LNNKYV3GMSPVRH/
>>
>> I would like to point out one thing. Langcom should be aware that Sylheti
>> wikipedia uses sylheti nagri script. And not many sylheti people can
>> actually read or write this script. Most sylheti uses Bengali alphabet to
>> write sylheti (also see
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sylhetis#Sylheti_nagri_script )
>>
>> I can see there is a discussion about this on sylheti wikipedia:
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/syl/ꠝꠥꠟ_ꠚꠣꠔꠣ#আমার_সামান্য_এক_পর্যবেক্ষণ_(ꠝꠞ_ꠔꠥꠞꠣ_ꠇꠤꠀꠟ)
>> where a sylheti pointed out that there is an organization did a survey and
>> found out only 12-25 thousands people can actually write or read this
>> script.
>>
>> There are c. 10.3 millions sylheti, which means sylheti wikipedia will
>> be un-accessible for vast majority of sylheti.
>>
>> There is also pointed out that possible solutions would be lang converter
>> like some wiki has. I would request langcom to create or ask developer to
>> create a lang converter for sylheti wikipedia. Mapping already exists, see
>> https://github.com/mayeenulislam/nagri-bangla
>>
>> Thank you.
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>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Fwd: Re: Proposed approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia

2023-06-20 Thread MF-Warburg

Forwarding to the list as I believe that was the intended target - and
thanks for the info!

-- Forwarded message -
Von: Mark Williamson 
Date: Di., 20. Juni 2023 um 03:22 Uhr
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia
To: 


Yes, there is an ongoing editathon focused on Ghanaian members of
Parliament, at least in the Kusaal test-wiki. See here:


https://incubator.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kus/8th_Parliament_of_the_4th_Republic_of_Ghana

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023, 2:03 PM MF-Warburg  wrote:

> This project too has a large percentage of its articles about members of
> parliament (though less than Kusaal). Is there some recommendation flowing
> around to concentrate on such articles?
>
> Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:56 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <
> jhs...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to propose the approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia (Wp/dga)
>> [1]. The activity has been high and stable since its inception in March,
>> with several active users each month. The localization of the most used
>> messages is also complete [3].
>>
>> We will need verification because this is the first Wikimedia project in
>> this language, but I think Sadik can help us with that.
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/dga
>> [2]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/dga=incubatorwiki
>> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/dga
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Mossi Wikipedia

No objection from me.

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:41 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos)
> [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the
> translation of the most important messages is done [3].
>
> We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone
> to verify it.
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos
> [2]
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/mos=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Igala Wikipedia

Here again I notice a content imbalance - most articles seem to be about
actors, and there are only about 160 of them.

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Igala Wikipedia (Wp/igl) [1].
> The activity has been high and stable since they properly got started back
> in January [2], and the localization of the most used messages is almost
> complete (only a few messages remaining) [3].
>
> We will need verification since this is the first Wikimedia project in
> this language.
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/igl
> [2]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/igl=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/igl
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Pa'O Wiktionary

No objection.

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 23:12 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Pa'O Wiktionary (Wt/blk) [1].
> The activity has been high and stable since around November 2022 [2]; there
> is also a good and ongoing effort to localize MediaWiki [3].
>
> There is already a Wikipedia in this language, so no verification should
> be necessary, seeing that most (all?) of its contributors are also active
> in the Pa'O Wikipedia.
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/blk
> [2]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wt/blk=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/blk
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Banjar Wikiquote

My impression about the content is the same.

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 23:07 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Revisiting this… The activity is still good, especially for a Wikiquote
> project.
>
> tor. 23. mars 2023 kl. 17:32 skrev MF-Warburg :
>
>> That's possible. I see that many pages are also quoting from the same
>> source (and giving the source in a literature section, which is of course
>> to be commended). Still, I do not think this test-project is developed
>> enough for approval. Another point would be that the Main Page doesn't link
>> to any other pages at all.
>>
>> Am Do., 16. März 2023 um 18:45 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <
>> jhs...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> It seems like most pages are about proverbs. The content is not very
>>> dissimilar from what you see if you use random page on the existing
>>> Indonesian Wikiquote.
>>>
>>> tor. 16. mar. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev MF-Warburg >> >:
>>>
>>>> Hello. I do object. I had a look at a random selection of (15) pages.
>>>> Not one of them did contain more than one thing that was recognisable as a
>>>> quote, if at all. Also, only 13 edits so far in this month by two
>>>> contributors (and last month also only two contributors >10 edits).
>>>>
>>>> Am Fr., 10. März 2023 um 12:37 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>>>> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> It's hard to judge the quality of content, but if everyone thinks
>>>>> there's nothing wrong with that, I agree.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>
>>>>> 2023년 3월 10일 (금) 오전 6:11, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to suggest the approval of Wikiquote in Banjar [1][2].
>>>>>> The project was started in July last year, and has had consistent high
>>>>>> activity since, except a dip in the last month [3]. The localization [4] 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> good and ongoing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there aren't any objections, I will post about its intended
>>>>>> approval on [[Talk:Language committee]] in one week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wq/bjn
>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiquote_Banjar
>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wq/bjn=incubatorwiki
>>>>>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/bjn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> mvh
>>>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>>> ___
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Jon Harald Søby
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>
>
> --
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia

This project too has a large percentage of its articles about members of
parliament (though less than Kusaal). Is there some recommendation flowing
around to concentrate on such articles?

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:56 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Dagaare Wikipedia (Wp/dga)
> [1]. The activity has been high and stable since its inception in March,
> with several active users each month. The localization of the most used
> messages is also complete [3].
>
> We will need verification because this is the first Wikimedia project in
> this language, but I think Sadik can help us with that.
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/dga
> [2]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/dga=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/dga
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Kusaal Wikipedia

It feels a bit early to me, especially since the vast majority of articles
seem to only be about member of parliament.

Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:50 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Kusaal Wikipedia (Wp/kus) [1].
> Its activity has been high and stable since it started for real three
> months ago [2], and the localization of the most used messages is almost
> complete (only a few missing) [3].
>
> We will need verification since this is the first Wikimedia project in
> this language.
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kus
> [2]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/kus=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/kus
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions

2023-06-14 Thread MF-Warburg

-- Forwarded message -
Von: Ami Keu 
Date: Mi., 14. Juni 2023 um 23:21 Uhr
Subject: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
To: 

-- Forwarded message -
From: Ami Keu 
Date: Wed, 14 June, 2023 at 10:05 PM
Subject: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
To: jhs...@wikimedia.no 

Hi Jon,
I don't know if this is the correct email to write this.

Thank you for initiating approval for Sylheti Wikipedia
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/TKDRS64F5NW2BQBCT4LNNKYV3GMSPVRH/

I would like to point out one thing. Langcom should be aware that Sylheti
wikipedia uses sylheti nagri script. And not many sylheti people can
actually read or write this script. Most sylheti uses Bengali alphabet to
write sylheti (also see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sylhetis#Sylheti_nagri_script )

I can see there is a discussion about this on sylheti wikipedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/syl/ꠝꠥꠟ_ꠚꠣꠔꠣ#আমার_সামান্য_এক_পর্যবেক্ষণ_(ꠝꠞ_ꠔꠥꠞꠣ_ꠇꠤꠀꠟ)
where a sylheti pointed out that there is an organization did a survey and
found out only 12-25 thousands people can actually write or read this
script.

There are c. 10.3 millions sylheti, which means sylheti wikipedia will be
un-accessible for vast majority of sylheti.

There is also pointed out that possible solutions would be lang converter
like some wiki has. I would request langcom to create or ask developer to
create a lang converter for sylheti wikipedia. Mapping already exists, see
https://github.com/mayeenulislam/nagri-bangla

Thank you.
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[Langcom] Re: Montenegrin - ineligible?

2023-05-03 Thread MF-Warburg

ant more context.
> >
> > 2. March 2010: A single email "Request for Wikipedia in Montenegrin
> > [5]" from our now-former member, User:Millosh, who is himself Serbian
> > and therefore knows the local situation quite well.
> >
> > 3. December 2010: The thread "Montenegrin Wikipedia rejected [6]"; it
> > was rejected because a pending request to add an ISO 639-3 code for
> > Montenegrin was rejected (or not acted upon?) by the registering
> > authority.
> > 4. May 2011: The thread "Montenegrin 4 [7]"; rejected because of
> > continued lack of ISO 639 code.
> > 5. Also May 2011: The thread "orthographies and macro-languages [8]",
> > giving some details about the relationship of the various
> > Serbo-Croatian languages.
> > 6. July 2011: Parts of the thread "Eligible status for Wikipedia in
> > Tunisian Arabic [9]", which went a bit off that topic.
> >
> > 7. March 2017: The thread "Rejection of Wikipedia Prekmurian [10]",
> > with more details.
> > 8. December 2017: The thread "Montenegrin Wikipedia (URGENT) [11]",
> > which came after the ISO 639-2 code was approved, but before it was
> > added to ISO 639-3.
> >
> > And then there's the current thread.
> >
> > As we can see, I don't think there was ever a clear consensus to
> > outright reject Montenegrin. There was a consensus for many years to
> > wait until they potentially got an ISO 639 code, but when that finally
> > happened, it happened in what I would describe as an "out-of-process
> > way", which seemed perhaps "suspicious" on linguistic grounds.
> >
> > ons. 26. apr. 2023 kl. 13:28 skrev Kimberli Mäkäräinen
> > :
> >
> >> I think it would be a good idea to look more into this, preferably
> >> by asking linguists specializing in this language/these languages
> >> for their opinion. Having an ISO code is not a guarantee one way or
> >> another that they are separate languages and there are plenty of
> >> languages bundled under a single ISO code.
> >>
> >> mvh. K
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >> From: Jon Harald Søby 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2023 4:55 PM
> >> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> >> 
> >> Subject: [Langcom] Re: Montenegrin - ineligible?
> >>
> >> Thanks for bringing it up, Amir. I promised a user a while back [1]
> >> to bring up the Montenegrin issue again, but I haven't done anything
> >> about it yet.
> >>
> >> The last proper discussion we had about Montenegrin in this list was
> >> in this thread [2] from March 2018 (+ this reply [3] from Steven).
> >> Since then the language committee's composition has changed a bit,
> >> but I don't know if the situation wrt. Montenegrin recognition has
> >> changed – back then, the ISO 639-2 code for Montenegrin was quite
> >> new. But it could be good to hear some more opinions from within the
> >> committee before it's marked as ineligible again.
> >>
> >> tir. 25. apr. 2023 kl. 14:53 skrev MF-Warburg
> >> :
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 25.
> >> Apr. 2023, 14:26:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> There's this old, contentious discussion:
> >>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Montenegrin_5
> >>
> >>
> >> I somehow thought that it's already marked as ineligible, but it
> >> isn't. I'd say that it should be marked as such. I've allowed
> >> localization in that language on translatewiki, similarly to en-gb,
> >> de-ch, etc., but it doesn't seem distinct enough for a whole
> >> Wikipedia.
> >>
> >> Does anyone disagree? If not, I'll be bold and mark it as ineligible
> >> in a week.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע
> >> אַהֲרוֹנִי
> >> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> >> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> >> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
> >> ___
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> >
> >

[Langcom] Re: Montenegrin - ineligible?

2023-04-25 Thread MF-Warburg

I agree.

Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 25. Apr.
2023, 14:26:

> Hi,
>
> There's this old, contentious discussion:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Montenegrin_5
>
> I somehow thought that it's already marked as ineligible, but it isn't.
> I'd say that it should be marked as such. I've allowed localization in that
> language on translatewiki, similarly to en-gb, de-ch, etc., but it doesn't
> seem distinct enough for a whole Wikipedia.
>
> Does anyone disagree? If not, I'll be bold and mark it as ineligible in a
> week.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: approve the Fante Wikipedia

2023-04-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Thanks for the explanation.

I have no objection to the approval.

Am Di., 4. Apr. 2023 um 15:26 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> I don't know what was intended with Akan exactly. As far as I can see, It
> was created in 2004, and Twi was created in 2003. I'm not sure what
> prompted the creation. If anyone knows how to find more documentation about
> their creation, such as bug reports, talk pages, or configuration file
> logs, I'll be very thankful.
>
> Maybe that was the intention, but I'm not sure. I might be wrong, but my
> wild guess is that there was no particular intention behind it, and it was
> just one of the many wikis created back then without a lot of background
> checking.
>
> Since 2018, I asked several people to check the content in Akan, and they
> all said that it's all only Twi (Akuapem and Asante) and not Fante.
>
> At some point I thought that maybe it's good to keep ak for Akuapem and
> dedicate tw to Asante, but everyone said that Akuapem and Asante are almost
> the same in writing, while Fante is distinct, and the term "Akan" includes
> all varieties of Fante and Twi.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 4 באפר׳ 2023 ב-16:13 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Could you briefly explain the relationship with Twi? Was akwiki
>> "intended" to encompass both Twi and Fante, but it turned out they are too
>> dissimilar from each other?
>>
>> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am So., 2. Apr.
>> 2023, 17:42:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I recommend approving the Fante Wikipedia (code "fat").
>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fat
>>>
>>> The activity is good, and the localization is complete.
>>>
>>> I've been trying to find an expert, which was surprisingly difficult. I
>>> found a teacher on academia.edu, who responded to me as a message on
>>> that site that it's indeed Fante, except some spelling errors. It's hard to
>>> copy messages from that site, but I hope you trust me :)
>>>
>>> If anyone wants to check with another expert, I won't object, but I
>>> think that's enough.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: approve the Fante Wikipedia

2023-04-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Could you briefly explain the relationship with Twi? Was akwiki "intended"
to encompass both Twi and Fante, but it turned out they are too dissimilar
from each other?

Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am So., 2. Apr.
2023, 17:42:

> Hi,
>
> I recommend approving the Fante Wikipedia (code "fat").
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fat
>
> The activity is good, and the localization is complete.
>
> I've been trying to find an expert, which was surprisingly difficult. I
> found a teacher on academia.edu, who responded to me as a message on that
> site that it's indeed Fante, except some spelling errors. It's hard to copy
> messages from that site, but I hope you trust me :)
>
> If anyone wants to check with another expert, I won't object, but I think
> that's enough.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: Starting Wikipedia Incubator in Dendi

2023-04-03 Thread MF-Warburg

I want to add: the vast majority of requests are unproblematic and are
usually marked as eligible by a single member of langcom, without
consultation. This is provided for in the <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Voting_policy>: "Any
committee member can mark clearly eligible requests for new languages as
eligible. Requirements are: the language has a valid ISO 639-3 code, there
are no significant issues with regard to the language itself, the
population of speakers is significant."

On Incubator, we also have <
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Requests_for_starting_a_test>,
where users can get quick guidance on where the appropriate place to start
is, if they are unsure. I agree with Jon Harald that it might be good to
streamline all of this. I've often thought there should be a "single point
of contact", which could also help avoid the creation of useless requests
like <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ottoman_Turkish_5>
(if we'd close it as rejected, sooner or later someone will start request
no. 6).

Am Mo., 3. Apr. 2023 um 16:06 Uhr schrieb Kimberli Mäkäräinen <
kimberli.makarai...@tuni.fi>:

> This does not pertain to Dendi since it has already been verified as
> eligible, but I would prefer not to let people just randomly start up a
> project on the incubator without someone verifying that it is eligible or
> we will end more ancient language/constructed language projects or projects
> where there is no language community at all that can support the project.
> On the other hand, having the request page does not mean that all the
> support would not just end up being the work of one person and their
> sockpuppets/meatpuppets like we had with Kamassian
> .
> Nonetheless, I still think the request formality is a good idea.
>
> Moving the whole shebang to Incubator sounds like a good idea.
>
> Slighty OT: Do we have any of the following stats for the incubator?
>
>- actual ISO codes, where the language has been verified
>- actual ISO codes, where the language has not been verified but a
>project has been started anyway
>- actual ISO codes where the language is not considered within the
>scope of the Wikimedia projects (ancient languages, etc.)
>- fake ISO codes
>
> t. K
>
> --
> *From:* Jon Harald Søby 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 12:13 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee  >
> *Subject:* [Langcom] Re: Starting Wikipedia Incubator in Dendi
>
> The request pages in their current form are a little bit outdated in my
> opinion, a relic from a time where votes (or !votes) for new editions were
> given much more weight. Nowadays they are mainly used to ascertain
> eligibility according to the language proposal policy, but the most
> important thing is to start the test wiki on the Incubator and maintain an
> active community there. There have been cases where a test wiki was active
> and even getting ready to be approved before the request page was actually
> made, and it wasn't really a problem.
>
> I would like to actually move the whole process (with the LPP and the
> request pages) from Meta to the Incubator. Currently there are two places
> where things are done; a very small part, i.e. the request page, is done on
> Meta, while the most important part (creating the test wiki and building a
> community) is done on the Incubator. I think it makes more sense to have
> everything in the Incubator, but I haven't written up a detailed proposal
> for that yet. I can hopefully get that done soon, but can't promise any
> exact timeline.
>
> But yeah, to answer the main question for Dendi: I just created the
> outline page for it at https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ddn , and
> they can start from there. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of "help" for
> what is needed at the very beginning (that is also something I would like
> to do something about), so it is good if they already have some experience
> from other language projects or at least have some help from experienced
> Wikimedians.
>
> I also marked the request page you linked to as eligible.
>
> man. 3. apr. 2023 kl. 10:53 skrev Anass Sedrati :
>
> Hello Colleagues,
>
> I was contracted today by Wikimedians who want to start an incubator
> version in Dendi (a language spoken in Benin by ~500.000 people, iso code:
> ddn). They explained to me that they created this request page
> ,
> but my understanding is that the mentioned page is a request to create a
> "full" Wikipedia, and not to have an incubator page. Is this a correct
> understanding?
>
> To start their incubator, they just need to be bold and create a main
> Wp/ddn page
> 
> and start working there. Is that also the correct

[Langcom] Re: Starting Wikipedia Incubator in Dendi

2023-04-03 Thread MF-Warburg

Wp/sux is a deleted page, and https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/sjn
is categorized as rejected. The numbers of those categories should
generally be accurate.
Fake codes shouldn't exist on Incubator anymore, we had a cleanup of those
years ago and nowadays an abusefilter is preventing the creation of pages
with invalid codes.

Am Mo., 3. Apr. 2023 um 16:18 Uhr schrieb Kimberli Mäkäräinen <
kimberli.makarai...@tuni.fi>:

> (We, of course, have incubator cats for some of these under
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Incubator:Test_wikis but
> for instance, valid does not mean it is necessarily eligible like with sjn
> (Sindarin) and sux (Sumerian).)
>
> -K
>
> --
> *From:* Kimberli Mäkäräinen 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 5:06 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee  >
> *Subject:* Re: [Langcom] Re: Starting Wikipedia Incubator in Dendi
>
> This does not pertain to Dendi since it has already been verified as
> eligible, but I would prefer not to let people just randomly start up a
> project on the incubator without someone verifying that it is eligible or
> we will end more ancient language/constructed language projects or projects
> where there is no language community at all that can support the project.
> On the other hand, having the request page does not mean that all the
> support would not just end up being the work of one person and their
> sockpuppets/meatpuppets like we had with Kamassian
> .
> Nonetheless, I still think the request formality is a good idea.
>
> Moving the whole shebang to Incubator sounds like a good idea.
>
> Slighty OT: Do we have any of the following stats for the incubator?
>
>- actual ISO codes, where the language has been verified
>- actual ISO codes, where the language has not been verified but a
>project has been started anyway
>- actual ISO codes where the language is not considered within the
>scope of the Wikimedia projects (ancient languages, etc.)
>- fake ISO codes
>
> t. K
>
> --
> *From:* Jon Harald Søby 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 12:13 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee  >
> *Subject:* [Langcom] Re: Starting Wikipedia Incubator in Dendi
>
> The request pages in their current form are a little bit outdated in my
> opinion, a relic from a time where votes (or !votes) for new editions were
> given much more weight. Nowadays they are mainly used to ascertain
> eligibility according to the language proposal policy, but the most
> important thing is to start the test wiki on the Incubator and maintain an
> active community there. There have been cases where a test wiki was active
> and even getting ready to be approved before the request page was actually
> made, and it wasn't really a problem.
>
> I would like to actually move the whole process (with the LPP and the
> request pages) from Meta to the Incubator. Currently there are two places
> where things are done; a very small part, i.e. the request page, is done on
> Meta, while the most important part (creating the test wiki and building a
> community) is done on the Incubator. I think it makes more sense to have
> everything in the Incubator, but I haven't written up a detailed proposal
> for that yet. I can hopefully get that done soon, but can't promise any
> exact timeline.
>
> But yeah, to answer the main question for Dendi: I just created the
> outline page for it at https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ddn , and
> they can start from there. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of "help" for
> what is needed at the very beginning (that is also something I would like
> to do something about), so it is good if they already have some experience
> from other language projects or at least have some help from experienced
> Wikimedians.
>
> I also marked the request page you linked to as eligible.
>
> man. 3. apr. 2023 kl. 10:53 skrev Anass Sedrati :
>
> Hello Colleagues,
>
> I was contracted today by Wikimedians who want to start an incubator
> version in Dendi (a language spoken in Benin by ~500.000 people, iso code:
> ddn). They explained to me that they created this request page
> ,
> but my understanding is that the mentioned page is a request to create a
> "full" Wikipedia, and not to have an incubator page. Is this a correct
> understanding?
>
> To start their incubator, they just need to be bold and create a main
> Wp/ddn page
> 
> and start working there. Is that also the correct procedure that I need to
> explain to them?
>
> Thank you colleagues for your clarifications. I wish you a great start of
> your week and look forward to meeting you tomorrow!
>
> Best regards,
> --
> -
> *Anass SEDRATI*
>

[Langcom] Re: merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

Thanks, that's fixed.

I started looking at which pages have already been imported to twwiki (and
deleted some of those duplicates), but haven't found an efficient process
yet. See <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robertjamal12#Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia
>

Am Sa., 1. Apr. 2023 um 18:42 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> Thanks for taking action on it.
>
> One immediate comment I have is that the link in the closure notice at the
> top is pointing to the wrong page. The correct page is:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>
> I may have a few more suggestions for setting it up post-closure, but a
> bit later. I talk to Twi and Fante editors frequently, and we'll figure out
> something nice.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 23 במרץ 2023 ב-22:15 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>
>> Yes.
>>
>> I am looking for an expert to check the Incubator in Fante, the other
>> variety of Akan.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 23 במרץ 2023 ב-18:38 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> Clearing out the inbox...  Can I get a short confirmation that this is
>>> still wanted? Then I will see to it that akwiki be closed.
>>>
>>> Am Do., 9. Juni 2022 um 17:53 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I suggest proceeding according to the closing projects policy, i.e. to
>>>> now notify the board.
>>>>
>>>> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 7. Juni
>>>> 2022, 14:01:
>>>>
>>>>> So, um... if there were no objections from the Language committee for
>>>>> over a week, what's the next step?
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I create Phab tasks to start locking the Akan Wikipedia?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or do we want more discussion? Or some advice from an external expert?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 30 במאי 2022 ב-11:57 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
>>>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that the proposal is sensible:
>>>>>> * ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ),
>>>>>> which includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is
>>>>>> in line with our general policy.
>>>>>> * Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me
>>>>>> about their confusion about where they should write, and in which 
>>>>>> variety.
>>>>>> * Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
>>>>>> translatewiki in Fante (fat):
>>>>>> translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
>>>>>> incubator:
>>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/fat=incubatorwiki
>>>>>> * There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be
>>>>>> too hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
>>>>>> * There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
>>>>>> * There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was
>>>>>> created a month ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
>>>>>> language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations 
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations

[Langcom] Re: Closure of Wolof Wikiquote

I see this was already discussed. Heh! I'm proceeding.

Am Mi., 30. Nov. 2022 um 13:05 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> As nobody has objected (I also do not object), I suggest going forward
> with the closure (by "notifying the community and the Board").
>
> Am Di., 29. Nov. 2022 um 02:05 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi all. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this closure by 6 December.
>>
>> Personally, I don't like wiki closures. This is within our scope, but it
>> should not be our priority task. Therefore, we have been running closures
>> for exceptional cases. But this project seems to have had contributors for
>> a while after a closure proposal was previously registered, then it
>> disappeared again, and it has been neglected for more than 10 years, not
>> much different from the first closure proposal. Of course, another
>> contributor may appear for a while as this proposal becomes more likely to
>> pass. However, given the opportunities previously presented, I don't think
>> this is a sufficient change to refute the closure's basis; unless there are
>> enough contributors to be at the level right before the test project on
>> incubator is approved.
>>
>> If this project has new contributors, it's not a bad thing at all to go
>> through the incubator process again. So I'm giving my support to this
>> closure.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 2022년 11월 28일 (월) 오전 2:10, Satdeep Gill 님이 작성:
>>
>>> I agree, let's close it. If it were Wikisource with considerable
>>> content, I would have considered to let it be, as a library.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Satdeep
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 6:35 PM Sotiale Wiki  wrote:
>>>
>>>> [Reminder] Any other comments?
>>>>
>>>> Sotiale
>>>>
>>>> 2022년 11월 13일 (일) 오전 2:37, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>>>>
>>>>> I concur. I checked all the pages (because that's something you can do
>>>>> when a wiki has only 13 pages), and they were all created in 2007 by a
>>>>> non-native speaker (babel wo-1), except for one page with no Wolof text in
>>>>> sight created by another non-native speaker this year. So I vote to close
>>>>> and move the content to the Incubator.
>>>>>
>>>>> lør. 12. nov. 2022 kl. 15:30 skrev Sotiale Wiki >>>> >:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to support this request and propose the closure of the
>>>>>> wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Wolof_Wikiquote_2
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It actually has very little content, and little progress has been
>>>>>> made since the last closure request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> https://wo.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jagleel:Toutes_les_pages?from===0
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As the content is minimal and virtually neglected as in the link
>>>>>> above, I am in favor of the closure of this project. I hope other members
>>>>>> will also look at this and provide your opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> mvh
>>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>> ___
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>> ___
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>
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Tyap Wikiquote

No objection. Pages look good!

Am Fr., 31. März 2023 um 16:59 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> Correction: That should be Wiktionary, of course, not Wikiquote.
>
> fre. 31. mar. 2023 kl. 13:39 skrev Jon Harald Søby :
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to suggest the approval of the Tyap Wikiquote [1][2]. It was
>> started in February of last year, and since April that year, it has had a
>> lot of contributions from several active community members.
>> The localization [3] is very good. There isn't a huge number of pages,
>> but that is less important than having an active community.
>>
>> There is already a Wikipedia in Tyap, with many of the same contributors,
>> so verification should not be necessary.
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/kcg
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Tyap
>> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/kcg
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
>>
>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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>
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[Langcom] Closure of Wolof Wikiquote

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Wolof_Wikiquote_2
https://wo.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jagleel:Toutes_les_pages

This wiki really is inactive and can be said to have an absence of content
since the wiki's creation. In line with the comments on the request, I
think it should be closed.
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[Langcom] Closure of cnwikimedia

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_cnwikimedia

This closure should be uncontroversial. As with past cases like <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_nzwikimedia>,
we can take action on it.

For the future, it might be worth proposing a change to the Closing
Projects Policy which would transfer the decision-making on the closure of
Chapter/User Group wikis to AffCom, who are already responsible for
allowing their creation.
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[Langcom] Closure of Swedish Wikiversity

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Swedish_Wikiversity
https://sv.wikiversity.org/wiki/Portal:Huvudsida

Users have already added a sitenotice that says Swedish Wikiversity is no
longer active. I suggest to accept this as a "soft closure" as used to be
done by StevenJ81 and to move on.
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[Langcom] Closure of Lak Wikipedia

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Lak_Wikipedia_3
https://lbe.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B3%D1%8C%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%80_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BD

This is basically the same situation as with Nauruan. Activity is
non-existent and articles are almost exclusively one-sentence stubs. On <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Lak_Wikipedia_3#Current_events>
some activities in April 2021 were mentioned, but they seem to have been
the only extent of this revival (so there are now 3 substantial articles
instead of 1, I'd think). I would also lean towards closure.
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[Langcom] Closing proposal Nauruan Wikipedia

With one closing proposal (Akan Wikipedia) out of the way, I thought it
would be a good moment to tackle the rest of them as well. So, I invite
your comments (one mail will follow for each request):

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Nauruan_Wikipedia
https://na.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bwiema_peij

The content of this project is extremely limited. Using Special:Random
dozens of times, I found not a single page that had more than one sentence
of content (that isn't a long quotation in a different language, e.g. of
national anthem texts). I would say this could be a justification to say
"the project is inactive + there is an absence of content", so it could be
closed. The discussion on the page is the usual mixture of "give it a
chance" and "it's not useful, close it down". There have also been some
concerns raised about the quality of the content. So I would lean towards
approving closure.
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[Langcom] Eligibility of Bajjika

2023-03-28 Thread MF-Warburg

A request has been made: <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Bajjika>.
I think it is an uncontroversial case of eligibility: The language recently
received an ISO 639-3 code, vjk, and usually we follow ISO 639-3 anyway.

But I've also read the ISO change request at <
https://iso639-3.sil.org/request/2022-004> and the article <
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259569512_The_Bajjika_language_and_speech_community_Abhishek_Kumar_Kashyap>
and from them I conclude that Bajjika, previously classified as a dialect
of Maithili, is sufficiently different from that and other related
languages, so that it is"sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a
more general wiki" [LPP].

As it is currently not clear if the request was made by a (native) speaker
of the language, or just "in general", as with past practice, I suggest
marking it as "on hold, pending the appearance of native speakers" rather
than "eligible", even though it would be eligible per se.
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Gungbe Wikinews

Am Mo., 6. März 2023 um 14:56 Uhr schrieb Samuel Okepefi <9ja...@gmail.com>:

> Hello,
>
> Apologies for posting here. I just found out about this threads and I want
> to address MF-Warburg concerns.
>


Thanks a lot for your reply!


>
> As far as I can tell, wikinews articles are mostly news summary from
> respected newspapers as sources (at most 2 sources per article). This
> policy we have adhered to. Most of the news articles on enwikinews are
> stub-like if compared to enwiki articles see examples here:
>
>
> https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/More_than_100_killed_in_mosque_bombing_in_Pakistan
>
> https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Earthquake_strikes_Aksu_Prefecture,_Xinjiang_Region,_China;_no_casualties_reported
>
> https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_singer_Madonna%27s_elder_brother_Anthony_Ciccone_dies_at_age_66
>
> https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Glasshouse_in_to_Tier_1_women%27s_cricket_final_on_Australia%27s_Sunshine_Coast
>
> When we started this project, we cite two to three sources but decided to
> stick to one source since ours is summarising a news article and then
> translating it. This is a community decision. You can see examples here.
>
>
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wn/guw/Folasade_Ogunsola_l%E1%BA%B9zun_y%E1%BB%8Dnnu_tintan_heyin_m%E1%BA%B9b%E1%BB%8Ddo-azinpon%E1%BB%8D_UNILAG_t%E1%BB%8Dn_go
>
>
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wn/guw/Naijilia_na_klan_eyin_Bola_Tinubu_l%E1%BA%B9zun_t%C3%B2g%C3%A1n_w%E1%BA%B9_Obaseki_d%E1%BB%8D
>
> As to posting short edits, I correct the sentences in most cases and that
> gives a lot of issues to me. So I encouraged writing text in bits and
> making sure the tonal markers are right. This reduces the level of my
> corrections on the body of texts. I also come in to add the proper
> formatting (once we get approval importing and then using the templates is
> usually easy and this will reduce this work) and audio to the news. You can
> confirm this trends on guwwiki or guwwiktionary. It's not a tactic as you
> concluded. Gungbe is tonal and a word if not marked properly can have
> different meanings e.g owhé(house), owhe(year),  owhè(sun).
>

So if I understand it correctly, several users are contributing the
content, while you see to it that the formatting is done properly. This
leads me to wonder: does this project rely entirely on you being there? I
don't mean this in a negative way, I appreciate what you do a lot, but if
one person has to "fix" every article, that would be a problem if that one
person once happens to be unavailable.


>
> Concerning using Google translate to translate our article and Google
> suggesting it as Yoruba. A proper test I think you should have done is
> reversing the Google translated text in English back to Yoruba and you will
> be amazed to see that no single word or expression will be the same as the
> previous text in gungbe. But thanks for this observations, it makes me to
> be aware of the possibility of gungbe being added to Google translate
> languages soon. My explanation for this is that there are large body of
> texts online for Gungbe and Google's algorithm is based on how close a
> written text is to an existing language. I found this interesting paper
> https://metatext.io/datasets/jw300. And did the same test you did on this:
>
> https://www.jw.org/guw/Wes%E1%BA%B9dot%E1%BA%B9n/linlinwe-l%E1%BA%B9/at%C3%B2%CC%A3h%C3%B2%CC%A3-nuhih%C3%B3%CC%A3-l%E1%BB%8D-t%E1%BB%8Dn-s%E1%BB%8Dha1-2019-jan-f%C3%A9vr/naw%E1%BA%B9-jiwhey%E1%BA%B9whe-n%E1%BB%8D-yin/
>
>
> https://www.jw.org/guw/nuhe-biblu-pl%E1%BB%8Dn-m%C3%AD/kanbi%E1%BB%8D-l%E1%BA%B9/pipeh%E1%BA%B9-z%C3%B2%CC%A3n-j%E1%BA%B9magb%E1%BB%8D/
> The texts are in gungbe but Google gives an intelligent translation and
> detects it as Yoruba. But when done in the reverse. It doesn't match the
> previous text. (You can try it too)
>
> I'll suggest when you do such test next time, try to do the reverse and
> see if it matches the previous text.
>

Well yes - but a Google Translate "re-translation" never gives back the
original text, regardless of the languages involved. I was merely surprised
to see this translation being understandable, so I wondered about whether
the pages are not actually written in Yoruba. But if I understand it
correctly, it is just a case of mutual intelligibility?


>
> In addition to the above, you can see that most of our sports news article
> are longer than most enwikinews articles. You can see here:
>
>
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wn/guw/Kane_do_ag%C3%B3_200t%E1%BB%8D_et%E1%BB%8Dn_to_Premier_League_m%E1%BA%B9_dile_Tottenham_duto_Man_City_ji
>
>
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wn/guw/Man_City_h%C3%B2_Chelsea,_nado_s%E1%BA%B9p%E1%BB%8D_m%E1%BA%B9he_to_aga_to_todohukanji_EPL_t%E1%BB%

[Langcom] Re: merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

Clearing out the inbox...  Can I get a short confirmation that this is
still wanted? Then I will see to it that akwiki be closed.

Am Do., 9. Juni 2022 um 17:53 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> I suggest proceeding according to the closing projects policy, i.e. to now
> notify the board.
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 7. Juni
> 2022, 14:01:
>
>> So, um... if there were no objections from the Language committee for
>> over a week, what's the next step?
>>
>> Should I create Phab tasks to start locking the Akan Wikipedia?
>>
>> Or do we want more discussion? Or some advice from an external expert?
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 30 במאי 2022 ב-11:57 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> See
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>>>
>>> I think that the proposal is sensible:
>>> * ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ),
>>> which includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is
>>> in line with our general policy.
>>> * Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me about
>>> their confusion about where they should write, and in which variety.
>>> * Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
>>> translatewiki in Fante (fat):
>>> translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
>>> incubator:
>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/fat=incubatorwiki
>>> * There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be too
>>> hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
>>> * There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
>>> * There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was
>>> created a month ago.
>>>
>>> So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
>>> language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations into
>>> it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations of
>>> the same strings into Twi (
>>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=translated=page=ak=mediawiki
>>> )
>>>
>>> All that said, I have been talking a lot to editors from Ghana in the
>>> last few years, and some of them are personal friends, so it's possible I
>>> have a conflict of interest or an incomplete understanding of how things
>>> work there. Other opinions are welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Mossi Wikipedia

Activity-wise, this is ok, even though I am surprised there are only 193
articles. But those that exist look decent enough, even though I am
surprised about some of the topics chosen over others. Thanks for seeking
verification. No objection from me then.

Am Di., 21. März 2023 um 12:32 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> I have indeed been in contact with them, and I think everything is mostly
> good, but I don't want to skip verification. I have already been trying to
> find a linguist who would check it, with no luck yet.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 13 במרץ 2023 ב-16:30 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
> jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to propose the approval of the Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos)
>> [1][2]. The activity has been high and stable for several months [3], and
>> localization is good [4] (only 17 messages missing out of the most
>> important messages, that can be done in no time).
>>
>> IIRC, Amir has already been in touch with this community quite a lot, so
>> I don't think separate verification is necessary in this case, but I'll
>> leave that up to him (and the rest of you, if anyone has objections).
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moor%C3%A9
>> [3]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/mos=incubatorwiki
>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Banjar Wikiquote

That's possible. I see that many pages are also quoting from the same
source (and giving the source in a literature section, which is of course
to be commended). Still, I do not think this test-project is developed
enough for approval. Another point would be that the Main Page doesn't link
to any other pages at all.

Am Do., 16. März 2023 um 18:45 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> It seems like most pages are about proverbs. The content is not very
> dissimilar from what you see if you use random page on the existing
> Indonesian Wikiquote.
>
> tor. 16. mar. 2023 kl. 17:47 skrev MF-Warburg :
>
>> Hello. I do object. I had a look at a random selection of (15) pages. Not
>> one of them did contain more than one thing that was recognisable as a
>> quote, if at all. Also, only 13 edits so far in this month by two
>> contributors (and last month also only two contributors >10 edits).
>>
>> Am Fr., 10. März 2023 um 12:37 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> It's hard to judge the quality of content, but if everyone thinks
>>> there's nothing wrong with that, I agree.
>>>
>>> Sotiale
>>>
>>> 2023년 3월 10일 (금) 오전 6:11, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to suggest the approval of Wikiquote in Banjar [1][2]. The
>>>> project was started in July last year, and has had consistent high activity
>>>> since, except a dip in the last month [3]. The localization [4] is good and
>>>> ongoing.
>>>>
>>>> If there aren't any objections, I will post about its intended approval
>>>> on [[Talk:Language committee]] in one week.
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wq/bjn
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiquote_Banjar
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wq/bjn=incubatorwiki
>>>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/bjn
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> mvh
>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>> ___
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>
>
> --
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> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Kabardian Wiktionary

2023-03-16 Thread MF-Warburg

Am Do., 16. März 2023 um 17:52 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby 
>Why do you think we need extra verification of the content, MF-Warburg?
There is already a Kabardian Wikipedia.

Oops, wrong tab! Strike that.

>
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[Langcom] Re: Kabardian Wiktionary

2023-03-16 Thread MF-Warburg

I agree that it can be approved. In this month of March, there is only the
perennial contributor so far, but at least there have been several other
users in the past months, and this user's activity is very consistent.
Verification of the content will be needed.

Am Fr., 10. März 2023 um 13:20 Uhr schrieb Satdeep Gill <
satdeepg...@gmail.com>:

> A huge number of pages and fairly stable contribution in the last year. I
> agree with approving this as well.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 5:05 PM, Sotiale Wiki 
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, finally, some important messages have been translated. Perhaps the
>> main contributor to this project may have seen it in 2021. Anyway, I would
>> like to suggest approval of this project.
>>
>> It has 19372 pages and satisfies a sufficiently sustainable activity. I'm
>> hoping this can be accepted unless there's an unexpected problem with it
>> not actually being this language.
>>
>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wt/kbd=incubatorwiki
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Kabardian
>>
>> Sotiale
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> --
> Best
> Satdeep
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Banjar Wikiquote

2023-03-16 Thread MF-Warburg

Hello. I do object. I had a look at a random selection of (15) pages. Not
one of them did contain more than one thing that was recognisable as a
quote, if at all. Also, only 13 edits so far in this month by two
contributors (and last month also only two contributors >10 edits).

Am Fr., 10. März 2023 um 12:37 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
sotiale...@gmail.com>:

> It's hard to judge the quality of content, but if everyone thinks there's
> nothing wrong with that, I agree.
>
> Sotiale
>
> 2023년 3월 10일 (금) 오전 6:11, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to suggest the approval of Wikiquote in Banjar [1][2]. The
>> project was started in July last year, and has had consistent high activity
>> since, except a dip in the last month [3]. The localization [4] is good and
>> ongoing.
>>
>> If there aren't any objections, I will post about its intended approval
>> on [[Talk:Language committee]] in one week.
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wq/bjn
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiquote_Banjar
>> [3]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wq/bjn=incubatorwiki
>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/bjn
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Wiktionary Mandailing

2023-03-07 Thread MF-Warburg

I think <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Mandailing>
could be approved. What do you think? Translation of the most-used messages
has recently been completed. Activity is continuous since October 2022.
NB: This would need verification of the content, as no Wikipedia already
exists.
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[Langcom] Re: Central Kurdish Wiktionary - recommended approval

2023-03-03 Thread MF-Warburg

It's ok - maybe add "if there are no objections *from community members,
based on the Language Proposal Policy*", for clarity of what could be
objected.

Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Fr., 3. März
2023, 13:30:

> Done. (Please check if it's correct—I don't do it often myself.)
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 3 במרץ 2023 ב-16:08 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> No objection from me. Does someone want to start the 7 days of
>> announcement on Meta already?
>>
>> Jon Harald Søby  schrieb am Do., 2. März 2023, 15:38:
>>
>>> I concur, they have had a good activity for quite some time. A little
>>> few in some months, but many more other months, which is a natural
>>> variation IMO.
>>>
>>> ons. 1. mar. 2023 kl. 05:34 skrev Amir E. Aharoni <
>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>>>
 Hi,

 I recommend approving the Central Kurdish Wiktionary:
 https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/ckb

 There's activity with at least three users, the wiki community is
 generally very active, the Most important messages are at 100% and there's
 general localization activity.

 --
 Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
 http://aharoni.wordpress.com
 ‪“We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
 ___
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> mvh
>>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Central Kurdish Wiktionary - recommended approval

2023-03-03 Thread MF-Warburg

No objection from me. Does someone want to start the 7 days of announcement
on Meta already?

Jon Harald Søby  schrieb am Do., 2. März 2023, 15:38:

> I concur, they have had a good activity for quite some time. A little few
> in some months, but many more other months, which is a natural variation
> IMO.
>
> ons. 1. mar. 2023 kl. 05:34 skrev Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recommend approving the Central Kurdish Wiktionary:
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/ckb
>>
>> There's activity with at least three users, the wiki community is
>> generally very active, the Most important messages are at 100% and there's
>> general localization activity.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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>
>
> --
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> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Gungbe Wikinews

2023-02-21 Thread MF-Warburg

Hello. I have some doubts. While the number of edits in the project is
certainly impressive, this seems to be achieved by a tactic of doing
extremely minor edits in order to create fairly short articles. There were
four articles that were edited today, you can see it in all of them:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wn/guw/Gando_nuhahun_aku%E1%BA%B9_Naira_t%E1%BB%8Dn_go:_Buhari_v%E1%BA%B9%CC%80_t%C3%B2vi_l%E1%BA%B9_nado_fahom%E1%BA%B9_p%E1%BA%B9%E1%BA%B9de_dog%E1%BB%8D=history
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wn/guw/Nawe_d%C3%A9_domi%E1%BB%8D%CC%81n_ede_na_e_ma_penugo_nado_s%C3%BA_ah%E1%BB%8D%CC%81_naira_70,000_he_e_d%C3%B9_wutu=history
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wn/guw/Insurance_h%C3%B2_Enyimba_1-0_nado_gb%E1%BB%8D%E1%B9%A3i_ot%E1%BA%B9n_aga_t%E1%BB%8Dn_m%E1%BA%B9=history
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wn/guw/Buhari,_Jonathan_po_m%E1%BA%B9devo_he_l%E1%BA%B9zun_tog%C3%A1n_l%E1%BA%B9_po_ma_wleawudai_ganji_w%E1%BA%B9_Kukah_d%E1%BB%8D=history

A first user creates the article in little slices, then user Samatics comes
in to fix some formalities. All articles are rather short and link to a
single English-language article (is it the source?) each.
Incidentally, you can also put all of the articles into Google Translate
and it will recognize them as being in Yoruba and put out an intelligible
English translation. I don't know how worrisome that is, though (but see <
https://books.google.de/books?id=801byTVQSuwC=PA2=PA2=gungbe+and+yoruba+mutual+intelligibility=bl=6rkTdspAg8=ACfU3U21r95u1CucI5DsUOvhLgQL8JfFDg=de=X=2ahUKEwjewM3Srqf9AhVdcPEDHa1OAWEQ6AF6BAgkEAM#v=onepage=gungbe%20and%20yoruba%20mutual%20intelligibility=false>
at the bottom of p. 2).

Am Mi., 15. Feb. 2023 um 15:47 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
sotiale...@gmail.com>:

> I agree to the approval of guwwikinews.
>
> I had previously been concerned about this project's focus on creating
> Wikimedia projects in a short period of time, but I realized that this was
> just my pointless concern. Some projects are often left unattended to
> establish other projects after being approved. However, guw projects are
> not, and are usually maintained and contributed continuously.
>
> The sustainability of the community and sufficient contributions are also
> generally satisfactory. And no major problems are found that would prevent
> approval.
>
> Therefore, I have absolutely no reason to oppose, and I'm in favor of
> approval.
>
> Sotiale
>
> 2023년 2월 14일 (화) 오후 9:37, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I would like to suggest the approval of the Gungbe Wikinews [1]. The test
>> wiki was started in October, and has had a steady and solid activity ever
>> since [2], with a core group of 8 active users who have made a substantial
>> number of edits.
>>
>> According to Samatics, their most active contributor, they average about
>> 7 new articles per day (I haven't double-checked this number, but have no
>> reason to doubt it). For comparison, the 14 newest articles on the English
>> Wikinews as of right now range from February 12 to January 8, so that's one
>> article every 2.5 days – meaning the Gungbe Wikinews is already one of the
>> most currently active Wikinews editions. They even have an audio Wikinews
>> subproject [3] with spoken news articles!
>>
>> The localization of MediaWiki into Gungbe is great and ongoing, currently
>> MediaWiki core is at 70 % [4].
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wn/guw
>> [2]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wn/guw=incubatorwiki
>> [3] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wn/guw/Linlin-hihia
>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/guw
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Min Nan aliases

2023-01-21 Thread MF-Warburg

We were requested to give input on <
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230382>: "Remove aliases `minnan` and
`zh-cfr` for the Min Nan Wikipedia". This concerns interwiki links only.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Personally, I don't see what speaks against
the removal, if these are unused.
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[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Wiktionary Gorontalo

2022-11-30 Thread MF-Warburg

No objection from me.

Am So., 27. Nov. 2022 um 18:07 Uhr schrieb Satdeep Gill <
satdeepg...@gmail.com>:

> I support approval as well.
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 10:00 PM Jan Wohlgemujth 
> wrote:
>
>> Am 2022-11-24 20:04, schrieb Jon Harald Søby:
>> > I agree. Back in October, I suggested to the contributors that they
>> > should work on MediaWiki translations in order to get approved, and
>> > they have followed up on that and got translations of MediaWiki core
>> > up to more than 30 %, with translations ongoing. So I support
>> > approval.
>> >
>>
>> I support approval.
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jan Wohlgemuth
>> Depok, Indonesia
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[Langcom] Re: Closure of Wolof Wikiquote

2022-11-30 Thread MF-Warburg

As nobody has objected (I also do not object), I suggest going forward with
the closure (by "notifying the community and the Board").

Am Di., 29. Nov. 2022 um 02:05 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
sotiale...@gmail.com>:

> Hi all. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this closure by 6 December.
>
> Personally, I don't like wiki closures. This is within our scope, but it
> should not be our priority task. Therefore, we have been running closures
> for exceptional cases. But this project seems to have had contributors for
> a while after a closure proposal was previously registered, then it
> disappeared again, and it has been neglected for more than 10 years, not
> much different from the first closure proposal. Of course, another
> contributor may appear for a while as this proposal becomes more likely to
> pass. However, given the opportunities previously presented, I don't think
> this is a sufficient change to refute the closure's basis; unless there are
> enough contributors to be at the level right before the test project on
> incubator is approved.
>
> If this project has new contributors, it's not a bad thing at all to go
> through the incubator process again. So I'm giving my support to this
> closure.
>
> Regards,
> Sotiale
>
> 2022년 11월 28일 (월) 오전 2:10, Satdeep Gill 님이 작성:
>
>> I agree, let's close it. If it were Wikisource with considerable content,
>> I would have considered to let it be, as a library.
>>
>> Regards
>> Satdeep
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 6:35 PM Sotiale Wiki  wrote:
>>
>>> [Reminder] Any other comments?
>>>
>>> Sotiale
>>>
>>> 2022년 11월 13일 (일) 오전 2:37, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>>>
 I concur. I checked all the pages (because that's something you can do
 when a wiki has only 13 pages), and they were all created in 2007 by a
 non-native speaker (babel wo-1), except for one page with no Wolof text in
 sight created by another non-native speaker this year. So I vote to close
 and move the content to the Incubator.

 lør. 12. nov. 2022 kl. 15:30 skrev Sotiale Wiki :

> Hi all.
>
> I would like to support this request and propose the closure of the
> wiki.
>
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Wolof_Wikiquote_2
> >
>
> It actually has very little content, and little progress has been made
> since the last closure request.
>
> <
> https://wo.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jagleel:Toutes_les_pages?from===0
> >
>
> As the content is minimal and virtually neglected as in the link
> above, I am in favor of the closure of this project. I hope other members
> will also look at this and provide your opinion.
>
> Regards,
> Sotiale
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[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Sassarese Wikipedia

2022-10-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Hello,

in general this is correct. The "requisites for final approval" are listed
in the Language Proposal Policy, which lists most of the steps done by
Langcom: <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy#Requisites_for_final_approval>.
As you can see, the two requirements (test-wiki activity and interface
translation) are not written in a hard-and-fast manner, but are open to
interpretation - except that for the first project in a language, the
translation of all "most-used" MediaWiki messages is required.
Elsewhere on the page it says "at least five active users must edit that
language regularly". A good rule of thumb is to see if the activity is
sustained over at least several months by at least several users. Incubator
info pages like https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ddg give convenient
links to two tools, for checking localisation requirements and
wiki-activity, respectively.

Also, <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Handbook_(committee)>
might be a useful walkthrough through some processes. But feel free to ask
away if anything (else) is unclear!


Am Di., 4. Okt. 2022 um 14:00 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati :

> Hello all,
>
> (This is my first message to the list :)
>
> I hope that you are doing well.
>
> I would really be glad to participate and take part in the committee's
> discussions, but I do not know what is the current procedure. My
> understanding is that once you think a language version in the incubator
> starts coming closer to have its own project, you discuss it in an email
> thread. did I understand correctly?
>
> In case this is the procedure, are there any criteria I need to look into
> before giving my opinion?
>
> Thank you in advance for your guidance and support, and I wish you all a
> good continuation of your Sunday!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Anass
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:05 AM Jon Harald Søby  wrote:
>
>> Is there anything we can conclude from the discussions on Meta? Despite
>> our tardiness, the activity level for Wp/sdc has remained good with 3–5
>> monthly active users since March. I would hate for the activity to "die
>> out" because we are slow in making conclusions.
>>
>> lør. 26. mar. 2022 kl. 13:15 skrev MF-Warburg :
>>
>>> There's another request which will also be affected:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Campidanese_Sardinian
>>>
>>> But I as well have not yet read into the issue.
>>>
>>> Am Sa., 26. März 2022 um 11:04 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>>> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Although the discussion was not conducted on the RFL page, discussions
>>>> related to Wp/sdc are in progress in Wp/src belonging to the same
>>>> macro. Several major contributors to both projects are the same.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Logudorese_Sardinian
>>>>
>>>> Before we approve this, we may consider what is being discussed here. I
>>>> got a message about this right after I sent the mail. I have not yet
>>>> reviewed all of the claims made.
>>>>
>>>> Sotiale
>>>>
>>>> 2022년 3월 26일 (토) 오후 3:42, Sotiale Wiki 님이 작성:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Language committee members,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello. Happy Saturday in March.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to ask for comments on the approval of *Wp/sdc*. It has
>>>>> been active since August 2021, and it has been 4 months(including March
>>>>> 2022) that 3 or more editors have been active[1]; 11/21 ~ 03/22: 2, 3, 5,
>>>>> 4, 4. There are about 1744 pages including templates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most used core messages have already been translated[2]. The request
>>>>> has already been submitted[3].
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to ask for your opinion on the approval of this, thank
>>>>> you for your consideration.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/sdc=incubatorwiki#editors_per_month
>>>>> [2] https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup=sdc
>>>>> [3]
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Sassarese
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>
>>>>> 본 이메일은 Avast로 보호되는 안전한 컴퓨터에서 발송되었습니다.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> <https://www

[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Amis Wikipedia

2021-10-04 Thread MF-Warburg

Hooray for Jhs & the experts :-D

Am Mo., 4. Okt. 2021 um 14:54 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby :

> I just forwarded expert confirmations for both Amis and Paiwan to the
> private list, so I will mark them as approved and "file the paperwork".
>
> tor. 16. sep. 2021 kl. 12:32 skrev Sotiale Wiki :
>
>> I am in favor of approval for Paiwan Wikipedia. They have demonstrated
>> their continued contribution over the past 7 months.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 2021년 9월 15일 (수) 오후 10:15, MF-Warburg 님이 작성:
>>
>>> I also propose to approve Paiwan Wikipedia, which is under similar
>>> circumstances.
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Paiwan
>>>
>>> Am Mo., 13. Sept. 2021 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Similar to Talysh, Amis Wikipedia also is a longstanding project which
>>>> I now propose to approve. <
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Amis
>>>> >
>>>> In "strict terms", it is now in the 3rd month of activity, but
>>>> continuous activity has been happening since the beginning of 2020.
>>>>
>>>> For verification, maybe someone who already took care of it in recent
>>>> times for other Taiwanese languages could look into it?
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Amis Wikipedia

2021-09-15 Thread MF-Warburg

I also propose to approve Paiwan Wikipedia, which is under similar
circumstances.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Paiwan

Am Mo., 13. Sept. 2021 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> Similar to Talysh, Amis Wikipedia also is a longstanding project which I
> now propose to approve. <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Amis>
> In "strict terms", it is now in the 3rd month of activity, but continuous
> activity has been happening since the beginning of 2020.
>
> For verification, maybe someone who already took care of it in recent
> times for other Taiwanese languages could look into it?
>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Manchu Wikipedia

2021-09-15 Thread MF-Warburg

A user has now given an answer there.
@ Amir, since you - as I now see - have been talking to them on Incubator
about the script converter issue, what do you think?

Am So., 12. Sept. 2021 um 21:17 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> It's not super-clear to me what that means. Do they want a script
> converter?
>
> Am Sa., 28. Aug. 2021 um 14:09 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi. I don't know if this is a sufficient answer, but I asked them what
>> Amir had raised.
>>
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Approval_of_Manchu_Wikipedia
>>
>> Their answer is:
>>
>>
>> *Actually, user Chulsu463
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Chulsu463> has proposed a
>> transcription between Manchu script and Latin script here
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Manchu_2>.
>>  If
>> the transcription is adopted, I think it is fine to keep the core message
>> in Latin script, and the separate pages in Latin script and Manchu script
>> will likely be combined into one single page. However, if the transcription
>> is hard to manage, I think keeping the pages separately, like Hakka
>> Wikipedia, is the best choice. (Actually I don't know adopting a conversion
>> in Manchu Wiki is hard or not, as the Latin script uses horizontal
>> direction, while the Manchu script is vertical) Additionally, I can convert
>> the core messages back to Manchu script when it is necessary. *
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 본 이메일은 Avast로 보호되는 안전한 컴퓨터에서 발송되었습니다.
>> www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
>> <#m_-1302865126391508188_m_4569612391571984965_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> 2021년 6월 1일 (화) 오후 9:56, Amir E. Aharoni 님이
>> 작성:
>>
>>> I've just noticed that they have a mix of Latin and Mongolian script
>>> articles in the Incubator and localization is mostly Latin. I'm not
>>> necessarily opposed to it, but I'd love to have some clarity about the
>>> reasons for it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 6 במאי 2021 ב-17:38 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>>> I propose to approve:
>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mnc
>>>>
>>>> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup=mnc - most-used
>>>> messages are translated
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wp/mnc=incubatorwiki#distribution_2021-05
>>>> - activity requirements fulfilled for 5 months now (December to April).
>>>>
>>>> Verification of the content will be very much needed, I guess, given
>>>> that it is a "critically endangered" language.
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[Langcom] Re: Important: Transparency and policy gaps for Ancient Languages

2021-09-14 Thread MF-Warburg

None of this is leading anywhere. I suggest taking note of this useful
comment:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages#Topics_which_are_distractions_from_the_ask

Am Di., 14. Sept. 2021 um 14:23 Uhr schrieb Jim Killock :

> Thank you Gerard
>
> This is helpful. When did the Charter come into effect?
>
> On 14 Sep 2021, at 13:03, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> This committee predates the charter.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On Tue, 14 Sept 2021 at 13:42, Jim Killock  wrote:
>
>> Do any of the other Committee members have an opinion about this below?
>>
>> I do not believe it the problem here to be a "process issue”.
>>
>>
>>1. The orginal consultation was faulty, in breach of the Committee
>>Charter and has produced a problematic AL policy;
>>2. The Committee’s current is in likely breach of the Committee’
>>Charter language policy as it is not based on “quantative indicators” but
>>instead changes these indicators according to preference;
>>3. This tension between the Committee’s Charter and the AL policy is
>>being consulted on now, there is an alternative approach available, but so
>>far the Committee do not seem to wish to respond or to discuss these
>>mitigations
>>
>>
>> Gerard, this does not need a response from you at this stage as we have
>> that already
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Sept 2021 at 20:31, Jim Killock  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Gerard,
>>>
>>> I am sorry you feel your time is being wasted. I am also very surprised
>>> how much effort this is taking, especially given that *the request for
>>> policy change in the RFC is very limited*, and would help the Committee
>>> deal with issues around the ancient language wikis which are not performing
>>> well. Furthermore I have no wish to be a nuisance, rather I would like to
>>> work with the Committee to help improve the ability of Ancient Language
>>> Wikis (ALWs) to meet WM’s mission.
>>>
>>> As you say, the policy is clear; the process is now clearer, having
>>> found the email archive. This is important, because some members of the
>>> Committee want to leave the current policy in place, should the current RFC
>>> be rejected.
>>>
>>> However, that is only reasonable if the policy you have can be seen to
>>> be developed fairly and responsibly, and to have dealt with all of the
>>> issues properly, at the time. Looking at the email discussion that led to
>>> the change I would observe that:
>>>
>>>
>>>1. The change to the status of Ancient Languages was *presented as a
>>>minor change to the Language proposal policy*
>>>2. The discussion was very short, with just 16 emails sent
>>>3. *Only three issues were raised*; being the need to meet the
>>>mission; a "need for native speakers"; and the need for a “natural 
>>> audience”
>>>4. There were no mitigations or alternatives discussed
>>>5. There was *no mention of a public discussion or consultation*,
>>>which *appears to be a breach of the Committee’s Charter commitment
>>>to transparency*
>>>6. There was no discussion of whether *qualitative factors* (ancient
>>>versus constructed languages) could be appropriately combined with 
>>> *different
>>>treatment of objective factors* (numbers of native speakers) which 
>>> *appears
>>>to be in breach of the Committee’s Charter, which commits to using
>>>objective factors alone.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Point six in particular is in need of public consultation and a
>>> consensus, and should not be the property of the Committee to determine by
>>> itself, or via a Board rubber stamp.
>>>
>>> All this said, it is easy to say these things in hindsight. I just want
>>> to be plain that the current RFC process is already a much more thorough
>>> and developed policy process than that in 2007 - quite naturally, given we
>>> have 14 years of further experience to apply. A review would be quite
>>> natural after this length of time in any case.
>>>
>>> So this is not meant as criticism, still less a personal one. I would
>>> however like the Committee to approach the current RFC positively, and use
>>> it to take a fresh look.
>>>
>>> Thank you again for your time,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
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[Langcom] Proposed approval of Amis Wikipedia

2021-09-13 Thread MF-Warburg

Similar to Talysh, Amis Wikipedia also is a longstanding project which I
now propose to approve. <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Amis>
In "strict terms", it is now in the 3rd month of activity, but continuous
activity has been happening since the beginning of 2020.

For verification, maybe someone who already took care of it in recent times
for other Taiwanese languages could look into it?
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[Langcom] Re: Important: Transparency and policy gaps for Ancient Languages

2021-09-13 Thread MF-Warburg

Am Mo., 13. Sept. 2021 um 13:44 Uhr schrieb Jim Killock :
>However the policy has left a lot of unresolved problems, at least for the
Latin project, and most likely for Sanskrit and Ancient Chinese, all of
whom are disqualified from further progress.

What is this supposed to mean? If these wikis exist, they are not
"disqualified from further progress".

> Finally there is a question as to whether Ancient Greek in particular
deserves a shot at a project.

Yes, this question has been discussed many times over the last few years,
with no positive outcome for an Ancient Greek Wikipedia. None of this is
new, which is why it makes no sense to say "the policy lacks consultation"
or whatever. Langcom has often discussed about the ancient languages
issues, but never with consensus to change the current policy. It is not
just there because some magical force put it there in 2007 and we are too
stupid to change it.
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[Langcom] Re: Important: Transparency and policy gaps for Ancient Languages

(NB that this mail was sent in on Friday, I have approved it only now as a
list admin, because I haven't been able to until now.)

Am So., 12. Sept. 2021 um 21:46 Uhr schrieb Jim Killock :
> While there may have been no requirements at the time to provide a
rationale, people who feel the policy is not set in exactly the right place
are left with *no formal explanation *as to why the Language Committee
devised the rules as it did.
>At least, nobody has responded to my requests for documentation from 2007
showing how the decision was made. If it is or can be made available, that
would be great. I have listed what I know at
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Start_allowing_ancient_languages/Appendix_II:_Prior_policy_documents_and_decisions

I really don't understand this. 2007 is prior to my time in Langcom and I
have no knowledge I could share about the decisions made back then.
However, I also don't see how this would help now. Some members have
previously commented in the "start allowing ancient languages" RFC with
good reasons as to why such projects shouldn't be approved. If there are
"secret reasons from 2007", they can only further support not allowing
ancient languages, probably.

>This is a problem in itself, but I think is also a large factor in the
upset felt by people who find their projects are declined. There is a
policy, but it is not explained. the justifications are communicated to
them adhoc and it is extremely hard for people understand why Wikimedia has
this policy, as it is in fact, unexplained in any formal document. Instead,
people whose projects are turned down are asked to accept the adhoc
explanations of Wikimedia volunteers. This is bound to cause friction and
grievance.
>If anything can be published from the time, that would of course be very
helpful.

If this is a legitimate concern, I feel like the already existing short
explanation at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy#Specific_issues
should be made more detailed, with some of the reasons already given, if
the current "disallowing" of ancient languages stays in place. That seems
better than digging up 2007 discussions.

[...]

*>The way forward*
*>Publish if available, but do not engineering the 2007 decision:* I do not
think the committee should now reverse engineer the reasons for the 2007
decision, if it turns out to be unavailable, especially as it probably was
made without much public consultation or evidence gathering.
*>If the documentation does turn up*, it is still twenty years old and
there is still a need to take a look at the performance of the current ALWs
and think about how they should be best supported.

As above.

*>Pause before looking again at the recommendations made on the current
RFC.* Rather I think there should be a period of evidence gathering and
reflection about ALWs. Once this evidence is gathered, some observations
and recommendations can flow back to the RFC process.

Can I also ask you to take a pause? I, too, mean this in good faith. But
every time I try to follow what is happening at the RFC, new walls of texts
have appeared and the RFC now has 5 appendices - it's like every day a new
one pops up, and they all were created by you. Indeed I like to assess
things thoroughly and carefully, which I feel like I cannot do if the
proposals are piling up at such speed.
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[Langcom] Re: Update on Igbo Wiktionary Status in the incubator

Hello! I'm not sure what has been happening here.
Currently, Igbo Wiktionary cannot be approved. The activity on Incubator is
rather low (see <
https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0=Wt/ig=incubatorwiki>:
3 edits in this month, 30 edits in the last month. Normally we are looking
for at least 3-5 editors being active over the course of at least 3-5
months, which I do admit was hit at some points in 2019/2020).
Additionally, it is missing interface translations (see <
https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup=ig>: the most-used
messages of MediaWiki are not yet translated completely.

Am So., 12. Sept. 2021 um 21:46 Uhr schrieb Tochi Precious <
tochiprecio...@gmail.com>:

> Hello
> Trust this email finds you well.
> My name is Tochi Precious, one of the founding members of the Igbo
> Wikimedians User Group.
>
> I'm writing to find out the update about Igbo Wiktionary which is a
> project in the incubator. There has been active contributions and we were
> told at the end of last year that the project has been approved to leave
> the Incubator. Since then, we've tried to reach out and no response.
>
> We would like to find out what's happening and what we have to do next.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
>
>
> Best
> Tochi
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[Langcom] Proposed approval of Talysh Wikipedia

I would like to propose approving Talysh Wikipedia. All the relevant links,
as usual, can be accessed from <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Talysh
>.

This is a perennially active project on Incubator since 2012. The most-used
messages are translated.

There has been an approval attempt proposed by yours truly in 2014 (see the
archives), but back then there seems to have been a script issue which now
looks to have been resolved in favour of the Latin script.

If approved, we would need verification of the content.
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[Langcom] Sindarin

I invite your thoughts:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Sindarin_2
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Manchu Wikipedia