Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi Chris,

Thanks. Ugh it’s even more irritating to learn this is obviously a known issue. 
Yes, I tested gen in bypass mode system off and it is all within spec, forgot 
to mention that.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches
Sent: April-25-24 11:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Chris Sparadeo 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

Hi Kevin,

Let me chime in here. Last year I experienced something nearly identical to 
what you are describing. 3 ea. XW pros in an off-grid application. Things were 
working fine, but wanted to upgrade firmware for a comms issue I was having 
with closed loop BMS and Insight. After the 2.04 upgrade, when the generator 
would charge the system, voltage would slowly creep up and after about 20 or so 
minutes, voltage would hit around 250 VAC with a terrible high pitched grinding 
noise coming from the inverters. This issue burned 3 of the homeowners UPS and 
several LED fixtures.

I was 99% sure this was a generator issue. After weeks of tech support calls, a 
new voltage regulator and multiple return service visits… and eventually one 
brand new generator… I had to come back to the homeowner with my tail between 
my legs and let them know that it wasn’t generator related. Even after 
reverting back to the old firmware, it seems as though the software eventually 
affected the hardware. Long story short, homeowner was done with dealing with 
Schneider and we ended up swapping the Conext gear for 2ea. Sol-Ark 15ks and 
the system has been issue free for almost a year. Both generator run like a top.

Sort of embarrassing to re-read this, but if I can help someone avoid the 
headache I went through, it’s worth it. One easy test method is to deenergize 
your entire system, turn off batteries and manually bypass your inverters. Let 
the generator power the loads directly and keep a close eye on your generator 
frequency, voltage and THD. In my case, I found that the generator behaved well 
in bypass and terribly when the inverters were present.

Good luck on this one!






Chris Sparadeo


On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 1:51 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

That sounds like a generator problem.  I've seen many gen sets put out a 
horrible waveform under load, when battery charging.  The waveform, (if you 
have an O-scope) usually has a spike on the front of the wave, and then the 
wave flattens significantly after.  The peak should be 169 v on a 120 vac RMS 
sinewave.  I've seen it as low as 135v on crappy generators that are over 
loaded.   THD is a great thing to check, but also check your peak voltage, if 
you have a quick capture feature on your meter.

It also could be related to altitude, gen sets can perform badly when they 
can't get enough air.   You didn't mention gen set model, or whether the 
frequency was a solid 60 hz.  I've seen bad things happen when the frequency 
got out of spec too.  I'm guessing a bad voltage regulator on the gen set.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 4/25/2024 11:24 AM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else has seen this issue.

New XW Pro off-grid system installed Dec 2023. Pretty standard config for us, 
XW Pro, 5 kW PV, 50 kWh UnigyII battery, 8 kW high quality diesel generator. 
This system ran fine all winter long – powering customer’s big RV they were 
living in while the house is built, Shop, computer controlled outdoor wood 
boiler, domestic loads + 3 person construction crew. Gen ran daily on auto 
start as we don’t get much sun Dec – Feb. No issues reported.

Couple weeks back I did a new system check up. All performing well, happy 
client. Part of that service I upgraded the XW firmware from 1.09 to 2.04, and 
insight from 1.16 to 1.18. Gave the system a quick check, ran gen. Lots of sun 
now, batteries full so didn’t do a long generator test. Yes I set the region 
codes for off-grid.

A week later, while I was out of town and it was not so sunny so gen running, 
client and their electrician called me in a panic. Two smoke detectors had 
literally melted, as well as several dimmable LED fixtures all failed. 
Electrician replaced the burned up devices, only to have the same thing repeat 
a few days later. Talking with them it was only when the generator was running 
there were issues. Told them to lock out gen and I will get there when I can.

Once back I attended site, fired up gen, and could hear the inverter sounding 
terrible during gen charging. Lights flickering bad, and I personally verified 
the smoke detectors beeping and getting warm and the house smelled like burned 
plastic. I hooked up my power quality analyser and could see the THD gradually 
building to over 36%. Gen voltage was at 125/250V a bit high, so adjusted that, 
but no change. By reducing the charge rate on the XW Pro to 50% was able to get 
the THD down around 12% and less light flicker. But it’s still too high. Image 
attached

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Yes, PLEASE! Provide us with off-grid firmware for XW Pros!

The reason I was updating firmware was to enable AC1 gen charging, for clients 
with dual generators. The Insight FW 1.18 clearly said it supported that 
feature, but that’s not true.

Schneider now tells that XW FW 2.07 will enable AC1 gen charging. So I thought 
let’s get prepared for that FW whenever it comes out.

But I am starting to seriously consider if it’s time to abandon Schneider and 
look to Sol Ark or such.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
Sent: April-25-24 11:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices


Good advice Michael!  I had one that the grid code got set by FW and reverting 
did not help. Had to start fresh.

I certainly would try the revert as it is so much easier.   There just is too 
much grid firmware being changed and it does

not need to be done offgrid.  I beg people and Schneider, like Eric to just 
have an offgrid FW as a choice




Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
<http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net<mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>

text 209 813 0060



On 2024-04-25 11:18 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
Go back to V1.11. I had the same thing happen with an XWPRO and a Central Maine 
Diesel with a DynaGen controller. Frequency and Peak to Peak was less than 
perfect and the inverter, IF it would qualify the power, sounded like a garbage 
disposal. Eric B at Schneider suggested reverting back to the old firmware and 
that did the trick. Like yours, my client is pissed and wants me to replace the 
inverter because he thinks it was compromised. He might be right. A colleague 
of mine ran into the same issue which was fixed with old firmware.

BTW, no one in tech support, after many calls ever suggested using the old 
firmware.
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 10:51 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

That sounds like a generator problem.  I've seen many gen sets put out a 
horrible waveform under load, when battery charging.  The waveform, (if you 
have an O-scope) usually has a spike on the front of the wave, and then the 
wave flattens significantly after.  The peak should be 169 v on a 120 vac RMS 
sinewave.  I've seen it as low as 135v on crappy generators that are over 
loaded.   THD is a great thing to check, but also check your peak voltage, if 
you have a quick capture feature on your meter.

It also could be related to altitude, gen sets can perform badly when they 
can't get enough air.   You didn't mention gen set model, or whether the 
frequency was a solid 60 hz.  I've seen bad things happen when the frequency 
got out of spec too.  I'm guessing a bad voltage regulator on the gen set.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 4/25/2024 11:24 AM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else has seen this issue.

New XW Pro off-grid system installed Dec 2023. Pretty standard config for us, 
XW Pro, 5 kW PV, 50 kWh UnigyII battery, 8 kW high quality diesel generator. 
This system ran fine all winter long – powering customer's big RV they were 
living in while the house is built, Shop, computer controlled outdoor wood 
boiler, domestic loads + 3 person construction crew. Gen ran daily on auto 
start as we don't get much sun Dec – Feb. No issues reported.

Couple weeks back I did a new system check up. All performing well, happy 
client. Part of that service I upgraded the XW firmware from 1.09 to 2.04, and 
insight from 1.16 to 1.18. Gave the system a quick check, ran gen. Lots of sun 
now, batteries full so didn't do a long generator test. Yes I set the region 
codes for off-grid.

A week later, while I was out of town and it was not so sunny so gen running, 
client and their electrician called me in a panic. Two smoke detectors had 
literally melted, as well as several dimmable LED fixtures all failed. 
Electrician replaced the burned up devices, only to have the same thing repeat 
a few days later. Talking with them it was only when the generator was running 
there were issues. Told them to lock out gen and I will get there when I can.

Once back I attended site, fired up gen, and could hear the inverter sounding 
terrible during gen charging. Lights flickering bad, and I personally verified 
the smoke detectors beeping and getting warm and the house smelled like burned 
plastic. I hooked up my power quality analyser and could see the THD gradually 
building to over 36%. Gen voltage was at 125/250V a bit high, so adjusted that, 
but no change. By reducing the charge rate on the XW Pro to 50% was able to get 
the THD down around 12% and less light flicker. But it's still too high. Image 
attached shows THD with gen on original programing, then at reduce

[RE-wrenches] Schneider CSW4048 / Lithium DD5300

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches,

Has anyone been able to get a CSW4048 inverter to work with battery type set to 
Lithium? When I try that it gives a F89 battery discharge over-current error 
within a few seconds. The battery is at 100% SoC and there was only the 
inverter idle loads present.

The CSW manual refers to document 976-0319-01-01 for specifics on Lithium. I 
have not been able to locate that document. Schneider tech support suggests try 
using custom battery setting, but it won't go lower than 56V when the battery 
specs request 55V max.

I specified the CSW4048 inverter for a Lithium installation not realizing until 
too late that the CSW doesn't actually offer closed-loop BMS integration. Using 
the Insight device it does interface to the BMS and allows the MPPT controllers 
to integrate for BMS derived SoC based charge control. Unclear if the BatLev 
gauge on the SCP will accurately display SoC values from the BMS.

Kevin

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium batteries

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi John,

Do you know what firmware version was causing your initial over-voltage 
situation?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 8:09 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: John Blittersdorf 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium batteries

Ray,
   With this batch of posts about lithium batteriem and several mentions of XW 
inverters and overcharging, I just have to chime in with my experience with one 
I installed and one installed by someone else. Both were charging 48V L16 wet 
cell batteries.  In both cases with charge settings double checked and triple 
checked, I had both shoot past the 57.2 volt absorb setting and destroyed the 
batteries. In one case a battery blew its top off.  The other we caught in time 
and shut it down. That one had some bad cells in 3 strings of 8 (not the one I 
installed) and when I arrived there the room was HOT from the boiling 
batteries.  I replaced them with 2 strings of 8 and though I was skeptical 
about the charge rate being stable, left it to the owner to monitor. That was 
last year and he has recently called to have me check a potential overcharging 
issue.  The other one I installed with 8 L16 batteries in a grid tie 
application and the after several years of working properly suddenly started 
overcharging out of control. WHen the customer called saying that the batteries 
were overheating, I told him to switch the inverter to bypass and shut all the 
DC switches off.  I was at the Midwest Enegy Fair and not able to check it out 
right away. When I returned, I filled the batteries up and turned the system on 
and the voltage shot up past 60 then 65 volts and I shut it down.  Fast forward 
2 years... Schneider techs finally admitted that there was a firmware problem 
and after much agrivation getting the firmware updated with no internet and 
poor phone coverage, got it back working OK.  Fast forward again 2 more years, 
problem is back.  I have the system set to charge at 1 amp and am able to at 
least keep the inverter on to sell his solar power. Ready to start round 3 with 
Schneider, this time with internet and good phone service  By the way, I have 
never had overcharge issues with Outback unless my settings were too high.  
Someone mentioned lack of overcharge protection on some Lithium BMS's.  I know 
for a fact that the Fortress E-flex does when I forgot to change from very high 
lead acid settings on the Outback Radian  when installing the Fortress 
batteries.  They nicely shut down at 60 volts and turned back on after I 
stopped the overcharge.
John Blittersdorf

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 12:17 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

We just had a complete failure of a set of four Simpliphi 3.8 KWh batteries, 48 
v.  It has completely changed my thoughts on Li+ for off grid.  This set lasted 
5 years, which is about equal to bottom of the barrel Golf Cart batteries.  The 
RMA/ Warranty process has not been smooth.  It took almost a week to even get 
shipping info from Simpliphi, and then another week to deal with Hazmat issues, 
and get Fed Ex to accept used Li+ batteries for shipment.  To their credit, 
tech support has been knowledgeable, responsive, and available by phone while 
on site.

 Overall, the system worked fine for 5 years, but then a month ago, after 
several days of cloudy weather, the system shut down due to low voltage. (so 
far, fairly typical off grid winter situation) When the customer started the 
generator and tried to revive the system, he noticed one of the batteries 
didn't seem to be taking a charge, so after consulting with Simpliphi, he 
charged each battery separately with a small aux charger.  I checked this 
charger and it was quite stable at a max of 58 v.  By the time I arrived, all 4 
batteries would not accept even milliamps of charge current. The BMSs had all 
disconnected the batteries from the buss, but strangely there was residual 
voltage (51vdc) on the terminals.  It was not usable however, and crashed to 18 
v upon connection to the inverter with no loads.

Simpliphi is claiming all the BMS units were fried due to a high voltage event. 
 Its winter, there was no lightning, and we had both the Outback FM100 and the 
Schneider XW programmed according to the Simpliphi integration guides.   BTW, 
Simpliphi has no high voltage recording, they just don't like the look of how 
their electronics fried. Electronics failed = customer's fault.  I think it 
failed because of the voltage differential between the low battery voltage and 
normal charge voltage.  If  the BMS can't survive in a typical off grid 
environment, with proper programming on industry standard equipment, its not 
suitable for off grid applications.  Plenty of manus have decided to quit 
recommending their equipment for off grid; its a tough gig.

How many times have we all heard the old 'Manu S blaming Manu X' snafu on this 
list?  Simpliphi is saying that 

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi Jay, 

I've not tried EQ via CC. But could try that tomorrow on my system as forecast 
is for lots of sun and batteries nearly full. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

Hi Kevin

Thanks, I heard that exact thing from someone else.

Do you know if the CC are connected via Xanbus, does that also prevent EQ in 
the CC?

Jay

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 4:36 PM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have seen the same behaviour on a few older XW6048's as well - including my 
> own. It will go into EQ mode after completion of Absorb charge, but voltage 
> does not increase as programmed. Adjusting the absorb settings manually is a 
> clumsy workaround. I assumed it's a software bug. 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
> jay via RE-wrenches
> Sent: February-12-24 11:36 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc: jay 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question
> 
> HI All,
> 
> I have a client with an older XW 6048 with 2 x XW-60 controllers, SCP etc.
> 
> He can’t seem to get the EQ to work with either equipment.
> 
> Its set to 62.4v for Rolls flooded batteries, but it won’t go above 60v.
> 
> It is charging normally to just at 60v so its not a temp sensor failure.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> thanks
> 
> jay
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

I have seen the same behaviour on a few older XW6048's as well - including my 
own. It will go into EQ mode after completion of Absorb charge, but voltage 
does not increase as programmed. Adjusting the absorb settings manually is a 
clumsy workaround. I assumed it's a software bug. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: February-12-24 11:36 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: jay 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

HI All,

I have a client with an older XW 6048 with 2 x XW-60 controllers, SCP etc.

He can’t seem to get the EQ to work with either equipment.

Its set to 62.4v for Rolls flooded batteries, but it won’t go above 60v.

It is charging normally to just at 60v so its not a temp sensor failure.

Any thoughts?

thanks

jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka Duration

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Yes, I’ve put a few systems together with these batteries, smaller ones. Some 
larger ones in the queue.

The product itself seems well designed, and flexible for many different 
configurations – low or high voltage and scales from 1 to 100’s of batteries. 
The WiFi / Bluetooth software interface & documentation is very poor. Still 
haven’t managed successful WiFi connections.

I’ve never figured out why it seems all Lithium batteries have such tiny ¼” 
battery terminals with # 4 interconnect cables. It comes with DC cables low and 
high voltage, data cables, wall mount brackets & anchors if using that method. 
Additional components needed for floor stacking.

One of my concerns with all the players in the Lithium world right now, and the 
inevitable fly-by-night box-moving operations that will go out of business, 
leaving clients hanging with warranties, is I wanted to work with an 
established company like East Penn who understands their product.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches
Sent: February-07-24 4:46 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deka Duration

Pals:

Anyone have any experience with this product, good or bad?

https://www.mkbattery.com/products/energy-storage#deka

We have had excellent results using their flooded and valve regulated lead-acid 
batteries.

William

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Rapid shutdown with 2023 compliance

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi Mac,

I’ve just gone through a couple installations with a similar situation.

The hardware you list does work as intended. I had to go through three 
different suppliers to get all the components.

One thing that I didn’t find clear in the MPPT RS documentation is when a 
shutdown is initiated, it shuts _everything_ on the Xanbus network down. All 
devices go into standby mode. Gen shuts down if running. Power is off. Not just 
the PV via Tigo modules. Had to develop client instruction sheet as to how to 
power up after a shutdown.

On one hand, I can see why a single point shutdown is desired outcome. But it 
concerns me that it’s vulnerable to abuse. If the whole system shutdown is not 
desired, the Xanbus connection can be omitted and then RS will be limited to 
the PV modules only.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis via RE-wrenches
Sent: January-01-24 12:00 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Mac Lewis 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Rapid shutdown with 2023 compliance

Hello Wrenches,

I need to retrofit a Schneider XW+ system with a rapid shutdown system.  The 
owner purchased this equipment about 4-5 years ago but is trying to get it past 
a very intense inspector.

To me, it looks relatively straightforward to get NEC 2023 rapid shutdown 
compliant using Tigo TS4AF, and adding Schneider's MPPT Disconnect RS and 
external rapid shutdown initiator.  It's a little strange though because it has 
2017 NEC compliant all over the documentation but I believe we are good through 
NEC 2023 because shutdown occurs at a module level and the Disconnect RS can 
take care of arc-fault monitoring.

Does anyone have any documentation for the MPPT Disconnect RS that doesn't 
specifically call out (only) NEC 2017 compliant?

Or if this is not a good approach and is not reliable, I would appreciate your 
input as well.

Cheers!




--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 V DC temp sensing relay

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Have you considered using a thermostat? Like the A19 series. Mechanical, 
non-electric.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
Sent: December-13-23 8:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 48 V DC temp sensing relay

Hello,

Does anyone know of a 48 VDC temperature sensing relay? I need to use one to 
control a fan in a 48 V battery bank, to bring in cold air when the bank gets 
too hot from the wood heating system in the house.

The relay needs to operate with the 48 VDC power supply and disconnect a small 
current with 48 VDC contacts.

Thank you,

Drake


Drake Chamberlin

Athens Electric LLC

Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum 4448 PAE whimpy charge rate.

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi John,

Are these made in Mexico units? We have had a few issues with quality control 
since the relocation, not specific issue you have, but charger-related.

There are two settings – Under the Shore menu make sure Amps are set properly, 
and then there is the battery charge rate in the setup menu. That inverter 
should give a 63A charge @ 48VDC, and generally doesn’t really care about power 
quality even with very cheap generators the charge rate is good.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2023 6:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: John Blittersdorf 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum 4448 PAE whimpy charge rate.

I have noticed on several Magnum Installations that the charge rate is low 
compared to the inverter rated output.  Typically I would assume the charge 
rate should be up to about 70 to 80 % of the inverter capacity, but I am 
getting only about 1400 watts (26 amps DC) from it with a 14kw generator.  Is 
there some setting I am missing that would limit it other than the charge %.  I 
know of one system where they added a 2nd Magnum inverter and then had problems 
with them working together consistently.  I have used the 8 kilowatt Radians 
for any off grid with significant loads and battery capacity and easily get 
6000 charging watts from a large generator. I also needed remote control of the 
generator (Generac EcoGen 15 kw so a quick inexpensive but clunky solution I 
came up with was to add an old (2003 vintage) used MX-60 to the system purely 
to use the Aux relay with a used HUB and old but good Mate3.  Works perfectly 
giving us AGS start and stop voltage settings and basic battery voltage graph. 
I would be interested in other ways to remote control generators with non 
Outback inverters. FlexNet DC?

John Blittersdorf
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cummins 13-kW to Schneider AGS

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi Matt, 

Which specific model? I recently figured out the wiring for the Cummins CMQG 
6kW. Find it easiest to order the external 5 pin switch and wiring harness and 
splice into that. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Matthew Sherald via RE-wrenches
Sent: November-13-23 10:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Matthew Sherald 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cummins 13-kW to Schneider AGS

Hello Friends,

I’m stuck trying to wire a 13-kW Cummins LP gen to a Schneider AGS. If someone 
has a quick explanation or diagram that they would be willing to share I would 
be most grateful.  

Many Thanks!

-Matt Sherald

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Dave,

My work is focused on remote, off-grid clients. With the XW6048, and XW+6048 it 
worked well. Gen 1 on AC1, Gen 2 on AC2. Set the AGS start settings a bit lower 
for second gen. Then if any issues with Gen1, Gen 2 would catch it and less 
urgent service calls to remote wherever to sort out. Whole lot simpler and cost 
savings for client as compared to external transfer switches and paired gensets.

With XWPro, AC1 is no longer available for generator as far as I can tell. I 
spent a lot of time with tech support on my first XWPro using same configs. 
They didn’t seem to realize this initially as well. Gen 1/AC1 would kick into 
passthrough mode but refused to engage charger consistently. Took a lot of 
time, but finally was informed that AC1 no longer supports generators.

I wish there was a way to load XW+ firmware onto XWPro, or such to make the 
XWPro off-grid friendly and rid of parameters related to grid tie.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
Sent: October-25-23 12:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

Not getting this Kevin, AC2 has always been the generator input as it allows 
wider frequency and voltage settings for drifting gensets.





Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
<http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net<mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>

text 209 813 0060



On 2023-10-25 11:57 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:

Physically it is all the same. Software is way more complex. As Dave mentioned, 
you have to follow the commissioning process.



AC1 will no longer accept generator input, it's grid-only now. So if you have a 
genset you will need to move that to AC2. This is one of the most irritating 
changes with the XWPro. Makes dual-generator configs a lot more complex now.



Kevin



From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Chad Waits via RE-wrenches
Sent: October-24-23 2:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Cc: Chad Waits mailto:chadwa...@netzerosolar.net>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter



Wrenches,



We have a client that had us construct a solar trailer for them back in 
2014-2015 timeframe. The Current XW6048-120/240-60 is cooked and I'm wondering 
if the Schneider rep (or you savvy off grid guys) on here could tell me if the 
newer XW Pro 6.8kW 120/240 is an exact drop in replacement for a system 
including the the old power distribution panel accessories.



Thanks!



Chad Waits
President - Net Zero Solar

945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713

Cell: (520) 270-4873

[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zMcUl5EhjemfzUnd46zPDuJwyFURzd7bNuklolvQ37rwiNtc0YPbqwUUg3S1lnCs0T7PyfxVg]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Physically it is all the same. Software is way more complex. As Dave mentioned, 
you have to follow the commissioning process.

AC1 will no longer accept generator input, it’s grid-only now. So if you have a 
genset you will need to move that to AC2. This is one of the most irritating 
changes with the XWPro. Makes dual-generator configs a lot more complex now.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Chad 
Waits via RE-wrenches
Sent: October-24-23 2:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Chad Waits 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

Wrenches,

We have a client that had us construct a solar trailer for them back in 
2014-2015 timeframe. The Current XW6048-120/240-60 is cooked and I'm wondering 
if the Schneider rep (or you savvy off grid guys) on here could tell me if the 
newer XW Pro 6.8kW 120/240 is an exact drop in replacement for a system 
including the the old power distribution panel accessories.

Thanks!

Chad Waits
President - Net Zero Solar
945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713
Cell: (520) 270-4873
[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zMcUl5EhjemfzUnd46zPDuJwyFURzd7bNuklolvQ37rwiNtc0YPbqwUUg3S1lnCs0T7PyfxVg]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Tech Support

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

I’ve not been able to get through to tech support via phone for some time now. 
Try emailing Rhodes rhodes.car...@se.com. Once he 
is engaged on an issue the support is quite good and is very knowledgeable 
about the product.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 5:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Vince McClellan 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Tech Support

Hello
Have any of you been in contact with tech support at Schneider? I haven't 
worked with their equipment in several years. I'm working on repairing another 
contractor's system, and when I tried to call tech support in the middle of the 
day, no one answered the call. I remember several years ago there was a special 
number to press once you were in the Schneider tech support answering system, 
but if you followed the prompts you wouldn't actually get to tech support.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help,


Vince McClellan

Energy Design

NABCEP PV Installation Professional

p. (541) 485-8122  f. (541) 338-8202


If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island remote alerts

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

It’s a very poorly designed system. But it is possible to view the full error 
code on the webbox, but only while it is an active error. I don’t have a webbox 
online right now to advise exactly what parameter but it was near the bottom of 
the long list, and the description is not very precise. Sorry I can’t be more 
specific.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 10:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island remote alerts

Friends:

How can one read error and/or warning code either via Sunny Portal or port 
forwarding a Webbbox?

I can see charts galore on the Portal but I can’t find error or warning logs.

Also, I get alerts via email but they are vague, as in “3xx” or “7xx”.

Apologies if this is a dumb question.

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Update: Though this thread shifted to another wrenches challenge, I wanted to 
give an update on my original post and issue with gen failing to charge.

Though it’s taken 4 weeks to get a reply, I did get contacted by three people 
today from Schneider. They are sending me a warranty XWPro. They also want me 
to verify a few things onsite, and if that doesn’t resolve, then I swap out the 
inverter. So that gives me reasonable assurance that I should be able to 
resolve the issue in one trip (20 hr drive round trip).

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Jay 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: October-13-23 8:38 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

I have a buddy that has had two different  stacked pairs with issues.
It took months of back and forth on the one which they did replace them however 
one of the inverters sent from Schneider was a euro 230/50hz. Taking another 
trip and more delay.

And same guy, another project with monitoring etc they refused to do anything 
and the client had the money to just replace them with another brand, and it’s 
been working fine ever since.

Not a good situation

Jay





On Oct 13, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

I had a 7 year-old one die 1.5 months ago.
F41 APS Under Voltage.
No ugly sounds. Just no power.
I don't have many out there but this is the first.


Aloha,

Lou Russo
(808) 345 6762



On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 4:47 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Funny you should say that. One that I just installed is acting weird and sounds 
horrible. Waited an hour on the phone for tech support to no avail. Will be a 
really long drive back to sort things out. Never had an XW with issues before.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 9:29 PM Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hello Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else is dealing with failed Schnieder XW PRO6848’s this year? 
In recent months I’ve had 2 DOA (one producing 180/360VAC; one charger had this 
nasty building THD and ugly noise until it tripped out), and 2 fail after few 
weeks in service. One charger just failed, and another have yet to take the 
long drive to figure out but it’s gone dark.

I’ve sold, serviced, and installed 100’s of XW’s starting with Beta 001 and 
can’t think of any that just failed like of recent. Unplanned return service 
calls are costly as we all know. Tech support has been wildly inconsistent and 
presently unresponsive.

Thanks,

Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2


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--

Michael Morningstar



Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com<mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>
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List 

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hi Wallace,

Interesting. Eric has in the past been responsive to my queries. I emailed him 
over 1 week ago about my most recently failed XWPro and have not heard back. I 
see he is replying fairly rapidly to your query. I shall bug him more next week.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 5:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Wallace Stahle 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

Hey bleeding edgers,

So being alarmed at what I was reading and halfway through purchasing a dual 
stack XW Pro package I emailed Eric Benson with my concerns and pasted your  
four descriptive posts with it  and  my plans to reconsider my choice before 
committing to problems some have had and I dont need. I pointed out the many 
solid installs some have had and that this appears to be a new problem in the 
unit, not the installation or older production runs.

Here is his initial response including reaching out to him if tech help is uh, 
unresponsive.



Begin forwarded message:

From: Eric Bentsen mailto:eric.bent...@se.com>>
Subject: Re: XW Pro problems
Date: October 13, 2023 at 4:09:44 PM PDT
To: Wallace Stahle mailto:fut...@pacific.net>>

Hi Wallace,
It sounds like someone loaded the wrong firmware, or they attempted calibration 
without reading the guide. We have thousands of successfully installed XW Pro 
units in single and multi-unit systems. If anyone on wrenches needs assistance 
and is unable to reach tech support, they can reach out to me directly. Most 
issues installers face in the field related to loud buzzing are because they 
don't follow the commissioning guide on the website, which includes upgrading 
firmware in InsightLocal first, then upgrade XW Pro unit(s), then restore each 
XW Pro to ALL factory defaults, finally apply region code. These steps are 
necessary, in the correct order, to have a smooth commissioning experience.
Let me know how I can help.
Eric

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21 FE 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
Get Outlook for Android

Internal

From: Wallace Stahle mailto:fut...@pacific.net>>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 3:12:47 PM
To: Eric Bentsen mailto:eric.bent...@se.com>>
Subject: XW Pro problems

[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]


Hello Eric,

So I just ordered a pair of MPPT 600/100 controllers and PDP for two inverters 
ahead of the 2 XW Pros that will go in later and I read some posts from 
experienced installers and realize I can not proceed with the install given 
these reports from four Re-Wrenches.  See pasted comments below.

The customers need for reliable power supply is critical.
I can not afford the time, trips, on hold phone time and frustration involved 
with remedies for these problems even if covered under warranty. Tech help 
generally presumes installer error when problems arise and getting them/you to 
acknowledge faulty product is an uphill rock rolling experience.

Your thoughts?

Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net



Hello Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else is dealing with failed Schnieder XW PRO6848’s this year? 
In recent months I’ve had 2 DOA (one producing 180/360VAC; one charger had this 
nasty building THD and ugly noise until it tripped out), and 2 fail after few 
weeks in service. One charger just failed, and another have yet to take the 
long drive to figure out but it’s gone dark.

I’ve sold, serviced, and installed 100’s of XW’s starting with Beta 001 and 
can’t think of any that just failed like of recent. Unplanned return service 
calls are costly as we all know. Tech support has been wildly inconsistent and 
presently unresponsive.

Thanks,

Funny you should say that. One that I just installed is acting weird and sounds 
horrible. Waited an hour on the phone for tech support to no avail. Will be a 
really long drive back to sort things out. Never had an XW with issues before.

I have a buddy that has had two different  stacked pairs with issues.
It took months of back and forth on the one which they did replace them however 
one of the inverters sent from Schneider was a euro 230/50hz. Taking another 
trip and more delay.

And same guy, another project with monitoring etc they refused to do anything 
and the client had the money to just replace them with another brand, and it’s 
been working fine ever since.

Not a good situation

I've only installed one and it is an ongoing nightmare.  Almost burned the 
customers house down with exploding batteries.
Voltages all set properly but the unit ignored all settings and went up to 67 
volts while I watched and who knows how high it would have gone if I had not 
shut the system down. Luckily the owner of the spart time home has been there 
when it needed to be shut down.
A grid tie system that has been off line most of its 10 year 

[RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else is dealing with failed Schnieder XW PRO6848's this year? 
In recent months I've had 2 DOA (one producing 180/360VAC; one charger had this 
nasty building THD and ugly noise until it tripped out), and 2 fail after few 
weeks in service. One charger just failed, and another have yet to take the 
long drive to figure out but it's gone dark.

I've sold, serviced, and installed 100's of XW's starting with Beta 001 and 
can't think of any that just failed like of recent. Unplanned return service 
calls are costly as we all know. Tech support has been wildly inconsistent and 
presently unresponsive.

Thanks,

Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Conext SCP

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Not sure if it’s quite public info yet, but the SCP is going to be available 
for purchase again.

“In June 2023, Xantrex will begin selling the System Control Panel (SCP). The 
Xantrex SCP is functionally identical to the discontinued Schneider Electric 
SCP (part #865-1050-01).  The only difference is the color which is black, and 
will have the “Xantrex” logo.   The programming, display, firmware, and 
installation are identical to the discontinued Schneider Electric SCP.

Support for Schneider Electric SW and XW Pro systems using the Xantrex SCP will 
still be supported by Schneider Electric Technical Support as you do today.  In 
the event of a defective Xantrex SCP, customers will have to reach out to 
Xantrex directly for warranty support. The warranty terms and conditions will 
be provided by Xantrex.”

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches
Sent: May-23-23 10:00 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Michael Morningstar 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Conext SCP

Am I missing something? Schneider has come up with a solution to the 
discontinued SCP by using a tablet connected to the Insight's ethernet port. In 
doing so, by utilizing that port it seems there is no longer a way to make a 
wired connection to the internet.

--

Michael Morningstar



Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com

[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xkNeAOHZC3SDnZTmnhgML4JHyGwi0PdmG_TrSHASBRfwJtZqGi7vknpXAngaaiawfnr5xCF1Y]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY

[Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches]

Thanks for this - there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 
3-5 per year.

Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dana 
Orzel via RE-wrenches
Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Cc: Dana Orzel 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY

Hey now all you off grid designer/installers,

I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the 
moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I 
explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler 
dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range.

If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water 
cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid 
systems are being installed with oversized gensets?

If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per 
year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit.

If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a 
possibility.

Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & 
I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available 
gensets for our off grid client systems.
I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not 
want your name passed along let me know for now.



Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
C - 208.721.7003   
d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   
www.greatsolarworks.com
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.


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[RE-wrenches] XW pro generator synch challenges

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello Wrenches,

I am setting up my first XW Pro in an off-grid dual generator config. I did not 
intend on the Pro version but it was all I could obtain for this job. On AC1 
With the factory default settings of 55/65 Hz min max, and the gen running at 
62 Hz unloaded it just refused to qualify the power even though it was within 
spec. By lowering RPM to 61.5 Hz it then will qualify fine. Curious. AC2 does 
not have this issue even small portable gens will synch and charge fine.

The challenge I am having now is sometimes it will qualify the generator power, 
engage and charge, but sometimes it will just engage AC Passthrough and refuse 
to charge, either manual gen run or automatic by low battery condition. 
Obviously a problem when gen auto starts but then refuses to charge.

Is there a way to program this inverter to be more off-grid friendly? I am 
assuming AC1 which is normally for grid input has a lot tighter tolerances, 
even if programming suggests otherwise.

Thanks,
Kevin


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Re: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Jay, 

I have had an Instek PSH-3630A for at least 15 years. It's been a solid unit 
has dealt with a lot of 2V cell recoveries. I see that particular unit is 
discontinued, if I was to buy one again, I'd get the Instek PSW 80-40.5 which 
goes from 0-80V and 40A. Not low cost units - will set you back couple 
thousand. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Jay
Sent: January-20-22 4:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger

Hi all

What recommendations do folks have for a 2v battery charger. 
It’s for 2v lead acid cells, preferably looking for something that’s adjustable 
to the specific battery chemistry. 

Higher amps also preferred as the 2v cells are usually pretty large. 10 amps 
would work but higher probably better 

I’ve looked around but haven’t found anything. 

Thanks

Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deep well pumping

[Kevin Pegg]

I use some older software from Grundfos called WinCAPS v 7.8 for pump sizing. 
It works well. I am only focused on the SQFlex systems, so have not used the 
other modules but believe it will do the calculations you wish. You may be able 
to find that software online to download. If not, I could try and locate the 
original installation CD or run the sizing for you. 

Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. 
37471 Hwy 16 E
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
250-846-9888
Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca 




-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of frenergy
Sent: March-26-21 12:39 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deep well pumping

Hey Folks,

             Why am I having such a difficult time finding a Grundfos 
distributor that can help me with a pump design for a new well?  Their website 
seems clunky for getting info  Static at 25 feet, drilled to 340 feet to hit 
30+ GPM.  We would like to have 25 GPM at 40 psi, pump set at 300 ft, dynamic 
water level is 175 feet.  Does Grundfos have a pump for this application?

Thanks

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote Alert and Bootstrapping on Sunny Island AC Coupled System

[Kevin Pegg]

Question: Is there an up-to-date option for remote monitoring that will send an 
email if certain error conditions occur?

The old webbox can be programmed to email you error notifications, as they 
occur. Need to program the webbox with an email server to use. Sunnyportal does 
as well, but there is an unpredictable lag time there.

There are two major issues, however, and I am baffled why they would program 
like this.

First, the emails are encoded in Base64 format, so you need to manually convert 
that to readable text. Ok, fine.
Second, once that is done, you get an error code like this:


Sunny WebBox event report for xx Sunny WebBox serial number: x

--

2020-11-20 15:10 SI5048UH:xx

Warning: Warning / 7xx SYS

--

created on:: 2020-11-20 15:10

This is an automatically generated e-mail. Please do not reply.

I cannot fathom why they would go to this extent, but to not display the entire 
error code. I want to know if it's a 710, 720, etc. 7xx is near useless. Though 
can get a general idea if being bombarded with errors that something is wrong.

As best as I can tell the only way to get the full error code is to pull data 
from the SD card on the Sunny Island.

Kevin


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Tump
Sent: December-18-20 6:32 AM
To: will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote Alert and Bootstrapping on Sunny Island AC 
Coupled System

I have long been a supporter & installer of the SMA SI product line, but their 
support and availability has led me to find other products. Outback Schneider 
products like Victron with their smart phone interface and their "Virtual 
remote monitoring” sunsets the SMA product line. Thats not to say that Victron 
is the easiest to set up but it does offer other advantages.
On Dec 17, 2020, at 11:04 PM, William Miller 
mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:

Friends:

Thanks for the many replies.  Here is what I have learned, paired with the 
questions.

1.   Is it normal for the display screens on the Sunny Islands to go blank 
after shutting off due to low battery voltage?  Apparently this is a feature, 
not a bug--the display is supposed to go blank.  There is a fault-clearing 
procedure that requires you remove all input power for 15 minutes and it worked 
here.  The system was responding as designed--it was not “bricked”.

2.   Is there an up-to-date option for remote monitoring that will send an 
email if certain error conditions occur?  No one is telling me any new SMA 
remote access system is much different from the old system of port-forwarding 
the web-box and then going blind trying to navigate the interface.  There is a 
remote-alert for some new SMA inverters, but not Sunny Island, which needs it 
the most.  I don’t think SMA can hold a candle to OpticsRE in this area.  This 
alone is a deal-killer for me spec’ing Sunny Island in the future.
3.   What would you do with a 6k AH battery bank with a voltage too low to 
start a battery inverter or solar charge controller?  My first reaction was the 
same as those that suggested AC-coupled off-grid architecture is fundamentally 
flawed due to this predicament.  In thinking about it further, the same is 
actually true for DC coupled systems: if battery voltage gets low enough, many 
PV charge controllers are not able to startup and charge a battery bank.  There 
is a warehouse-style, 48 volt forklift charger next door I could have for the 
asking, but it was not needed for this outage and I doubt it will be needed in 
the future.

Thanks again.  The wrenches list rocks!

William Miller
Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


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t...@swnl.netmailto:t...@swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:t...@swnl.net>
   
www.SWNL.nethttp://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/>
Solarwinds Northernlights
   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
  Blair "TUMP" May
   

Re: [RE-wrenches] advice on cellular modem brands

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Christopher,

After messing about with various, lower cost, consumer-type units that always 
seemed to need rebooting or otherwise fiddling with, we have standardized using 
the GE MDS Orbit modems. They are industrial grade with a steeper learning 
curve for setup and programming. Once up and running, they have been very 
solid. Lots of powerful software features. We buy through a local industrial 
radio company.

https://www.gegridsolutions.com/Communications/CellularSolutions.htm

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Schaefer
Sent: April-11-20 9:48 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] advice on cellular modem brands

G'Day All,

I'm in search of advice on the different brand/models of cellular modems ya'll 
have been having good luck with these days when it comes to monitoring 
something basic like an OutBack Mate3s via Optics RE.

What I've found thus far is from a company called MoFi Networks. They offer a 
unit 4G, for around $320 that requires the end user/client to purchase a sim 
card w/ hotspot enabled from their local cell carrier whether it be AT, 
Verison or T-mobile. The one note on purchasing from a carrier is that they can 
throttle you down if you use too much data, which I can't imagine the Outback 
or any other monitoring apparatus would hit. Now if the client decided to 
stream movies that's a different story and falls on their shoulders. I was told 
that you can purchase a sim card from a third party that for reasons I don't 
begin to understand can't be throttled down by the national carriers.

Anyway I'd love to hear back from my peers on brands that you've tried, trued 
and tested.

Happy Easter and Passover to All,
Christopher-

Chris Schaefer’s
[http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png]
Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com

[http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg]

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" 
will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and 
give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Kevin Pegg]

We have had good success with industrial diesels from a local generator shop 
(westquip diesel). Built to order with name brand components. Put a couple 7.5 
kW and few 14 kW units in last year, and they worked well through this past 
winter so far. 

Isuzu 3CH1 or 3CE1 engines, mated to a Stamford generator end, with Dynagen or 
Deep Sea controllers. 

For our cold winters in northern Canada, generators fitted with glow plugs, 
intake heater as well as auxillary block heater. We got down to -31F for a week 
this winter and they all started fine unattended. Put a few units in the year 
before with Kubota engines and they were all unreliable cold starters. Much 
happier with Isuzu. 

We have a few tweaks we do to the controller programming to help it in the cold 
weather. Have had far better success with this approach than any of the options 
discussed in this thread. Having a responsive generator manufacturer

Of late we have had many quality issues with Honda generators - both the 
cheaper EM series, as well as the EU. Frustrating to diagnose as we provide the 
repair shop with a detailed power quality analysis showing them the issues, but 
they just don't have the expertise to understand that. Their testing is "it 
runs a skill saw, so it's good, right?". So am having to caution clients who go 
down the Honda route, if they get a good unit it's likely to last for a while, 
but if it's a dud out of the box good luck getting it resolved. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: February-27-20 2:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed with 
the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  Service 
requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and programming 
setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing any other great 
choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they can 
take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider support? / Insight2

[Kevin Pegg]

Insight2 has just released a new version, think 2 days ago - check it out. It 
is improved in terms of displaying performance data, but still doesn't seem to 
be as tight and intuitive as Insight1 is. With Insight1's data being completely 
unreliable, it's good this new platform is starting to stabilize.

I do feel it was released too early without enough testing, though.

The potential exists for programming systems via Insight2, but that 
functionality is not yet working. It is a significant technical challenge. I 
always prefer to have direct HTTP access to the remote site, though it is 
technically more complex to setup, and to keep it available for when needed.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: December-03-19 12:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider support?


I would hope that you guys are feeding this back. I tell them what you are 
saying but better from you.

I agree that Insight 2 is missing the most important screen that gateway and 
combox have and that is the battery summary screen. A 24 hour picture of the 
system that has months of data by the day. Disagree about Insight2. It does 
allow me to remote configure easily BTW. I was told that new gateway firmware 
would be out in Q4. Getting pretty near the end of that promise.

https://solar.schneider-electric.com/conext-gateway-conext-insight-2-product-feedback/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:33:30 -0500, Howie Michaelson 
mailto:howie.michael...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Glen,
My experience with Schneider Support over the last several months has been very 
variable in terms of how accessible they are.  There have been times when I 
ring right through, and others when I'm on hold for more than an hour (I think 
my personal record was a total of 2.5 hours in one day due to my call being 
dropped after 70 minutes of waiting. I have tried the online request for 
support route several times and I can't remember if I've ever received a call 
or email back from that, other than once when I got a call back maybe 5 days 
after I submitted my request - clearly that is not a very functional system.  I 
also think it would be quite helpful if there was a way to reference a case 
number on line to see what the current status of a support issue was if it was 
something that I was waiting for a more information about or a higher tier 
response from, but as far as I know that is not available to us.  When I do get 
through, I mostly feel like I've gotten decent to really good support, although 
my impression is that there is a fair amount of siloing between the various 
design, engineering, and support departments which has caused frustration for 
me in getting clear answers or solutions to issues and problems.
As far as the gateway, I am happy with the interface and functionality when 
onsite, but the Insight 2 portal seems extremely limited and for the most part 
useless from an installer perspective, mostly geared toward making things easy 
to read for end users, but not supplying some real basic information and 
functionality needed to even keep track of a site, no less troubleshoot it 
offsite.  So far it is a big disappointment since I had the impression that it 
was promised to give total transparency and programability into a remote site.  
I can only hope that Schneider is doing due diligence in developing those 
capabilities before releasing them on us - perhaps wishful thinking...
Howie

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 3:57 PM Glenn Burt 
mailto:glenn.b...@glbcc.com>> wrote:
First time in about a year that I have had to use Schneider support – I find 
that now the special number has no one answering it!?
I created a case online 5 days ago and received receipt of a case number – do I 
now have to wait for my number to come up and for them to call me?
Anyone else experiencing this, or did I miss something?
I am registered with Schneider as an installer...

I have an off-grid customer I talked into using their equipment partially based 
on feedback I got here about the new Gateway...so far I am unimpressed with 
internet connectivity and the Insight 2 portal... He is now snowed in for the 
winter here and access is only by snowmobile. Two identical systems and I need 
to get answers ASAP!

Thanks for any feedback.

Glenn

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery hydration system info

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello, 

I've worked with a few different systems over the years. The system by aquapro 
has performed the best for us, with the few infrequent failures resulting in 
overflows. Which is better than some previous units that would fail to fill and 
boil cells dry if client wasn't paying close attention. 

Not sure on specifics of the old system, but plumbing is generally pretty 
flexible to adapt. 

https://aquapro-factory.net/

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jeff Clearwater
Sent: November-14-19 9:41 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery hydration system info

Hey Jay,

I've replaced a few of the older automatic systems with what I usually 
recommend in their place - an elevated 3 gallon plastic reservoir with a 
filling hole cut in the top - leading to a petcock and tube to another petcock 
controlled nozzle that can be brought to each battery filler cap and easily 
controlled to deliver the exact amount needed.  Add a flashlight and voila.

However as you well know voila is not so easy as It does require the folks to 
actually remember to water their batteries.  An auto email every 3 months with 
a followup to see if they did it is probably as reliable as an automatic system 
that no-one checks on.  I don't know - have folks had good history with 
automatic systems?

It's an uphill battle either way - and as you probably know - it really comes 
down to a client who "gets it"  - that their $5K-25K investment needs an hour 
of their time every 3 months or so.

I have had some luck with service contracts - for local clients - unfortunately 
half my clients are spread half way round the world - so that doesn't help 
either in those cases.

Probably not telling you anything you don't already know - but saw that no-one 
else responded so wanted to see if we could get a rise out of the list - 
perhaps someone out there knows of those parts?

Best,

Jeff


Jay wrote on 11/11/19 1:38 PM:

> I’ve got a client who has a watering system made by Battery hydration 
> systems who appear to out of business.
>
> Does anyone know of compatible replacement parts?
>
> Thx
> Jay
> Peltz Power.
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 8d battery replacement

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Jay, 

We just had the same situation, client had a set of Concorde 8D's that were at 
least 20 years old. Racking in place. 

We replaced with East Penn Intimidator series 8D AGM's for simplicity. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jay
Sent: October-03-19 9:01 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 8d battery replacement

Hi all

Ive got a client with dead 8d’S. 48v system, had 3 strings, about 600ah.

I was planning on using the OB PLC 200 but is discontinued and the replacement 
is 1-2 months out.  They were 3000 cycles to 50% DOD.

Wondering what people would recommend. 
Lithium is not an option, too expensive up front. 
He’s already got a 3 tier racking system for the 8D’s. 

Any recommendations as to either best cycle life 8D or something might fit into 
the same rack, which the OB would have. Right now I’m leaning towards just 
having him wait, which he can do as it’s his 2 or 3rd home which he’s not 
using, and this house is only used infrequently.  

Thx
Jay




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Honda EU2000i output V adjustment

[Kevin Pegg]

No, this is not adjustable. Bear in mind these are not like standard generators 
where you can adjust the AVR/RPM. These are inverter/generators. I have had 
instances of bad inverter boards causing low voltage. That's a repair, not an 
adjustment.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: September-22-19 4:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Honda EU2000i output V adjustment


I have a client that needs to adjust the output voltage on a honda eu2000i. I 
have looked on the web and can't find anything.

Does anyone know if it is adjustable? It may not be. Thank-you!




Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Communications using the Conext Gateway

[Kevin Pegg]

Howie, I share much of your frustration.

I have dozens of clients using the Combox / Insight platform. The comboxes are 
generally solid, but insight has not been reliable for at least a year. All 
sorts of randomly scrambled and contradictory data from insight - wastes the 
installers time when we don't have reliable data.

The gateway / Insight2 looks promising, but the software has a long way to go. 
Reliability issues are one, but I find the layout and overall design and 
ability to view and extract performance data is poor.

So we have two communications options for this platform, neither are fully 
reliable at this time.

Challenging.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Howie Michaelson
Sent: September-15-19 9:45 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Communications using the Conext Gateway

Sandra,
Thank you very much for getting back to me.  I really want to use Schneider 
equipment, but the tech support delays alone are incredibly infuriating!  Good 
to know that you are working on it, and I understand the slow training issue.
On the other hand, this is an incredibly unfair and unwise way to treat your 
installer base!  I have wasted all told probably a week of my time waiting on 
the phone and trying solutions that tech support has offered or suggested 
without the needed information about the current state of various devices.  And 
to release equipment onto us that hasn't been vetted enough is costly to us, 
and degrades my confidence in all the equipment, not to mention my clients 
confidence and satisfaction with me.  Schneider is obviously not the first 
company to experience these type of challenges, but I thought they had learned 
from others, including their Xantrex predecessor - now I'm not so sure. I look 
forward to a significant improvement in tech support.  I would think Schneider 
has the resources to make this happen quickly.
Best,
Howie

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 11:55 AM Sandra Herrera 
mailto:sandra.herr...@se.com>> wrote:
Howie,
I am sorry to hear about the issues with Insight2 as well as communications 
with our technical support department.
We have identified connectivity issues between some gateways and Insight2, in 
some cases:

  1.  The Gateway stops sending data to Insight2 after firmware update
  2.  If the time setting on Gateway is different than time on Isight2, this 
will cause the no communication issue
  3.  Customer network connectivity, this one usually shows an intermittent 
connection
We are working on a new framework application that should resolve most of the 
problems, and this will be a firmware update for Gateway 1.05 as well as the 
server update, scheduled this month.

As far as technical support, we are still experiencing growing pains since the 
move from Costa Mesa, California to Denver. However, we are hiring two new 
technicians for the team in Denver, which will reduce the hold time. 
Unfortunately, the learning curve for a technical support representative is 
steep, and it usually takes several months for a new hire to get to a level of 
knowledge.
I will reach out to you directly with specific troubleshooting steps to 
identify the communication issues for the system.

Regards

Sandra Herrera
sandra.herr...@se.com




From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 8:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Communications using the Conext Gateway


[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]




I have a net metered battery backup Dual stack XW Pro with a Conext Gateway. 
The Gateway is communicating on the Xanbus netwark and I'm able to read and 
write to the inverters through the gateway as long as I'm connected to it 
through the local area network.
I was also able to register the Gateway on the Insight2 website which has 
retained some of the iniial data. However, shortly thereafter the gateway seems 
to have stopped communicating with the insight server, or at least the server 
has stopped showing the gateway as connected.  I know there is internet access 
because everything else on the LAN has connectivity.
Schneider support not only has been having ridiculously impossible wait times, 
but when I do get through to them, they are of no help with this issue.  I've 
made my way to tier 3 support, but that has not helped in this matter.
Does anyone know if there is a trick or some reason why the gateway would stop 
communicating out to the Insight2 server.  I've updated all the firmware of the 
schneider products.  This has allowed me to actually have the gateway start 
working properly, based on the most recent firmware update this past week.
I've really been happy with the XW+ inverters as well as this relatively new 
communication and remote programming capability that the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider tech support AWOL?

[Kevin Pegg]

ess.“ W. Miller

From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]
 On Behalf Of Glenn Burt
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 3:10 PM
To: Vince McClellan; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider tech support AWOL?

Vince,
We were asked not to share that information...



Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone

-- Original message--
From: Vince McClellan
Date: Fri, Apr 5, 2019 5:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches;
Cc:
Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider tech support AWOL?

Hi Kevin
Frustrating isn’t it. Try calling the tech support line and then enter the 
number 8. You should get a real person.


On Apr 5, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Kevin Pegg 
mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca>> wrote:
Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone has had any response from Schneider renewable energy tech 
support of late? I have submitted 4 cases over the last 3 weeks, couple 
warranty claims, couple tech questions - and have had absolutely zero response.

My clients are starting to get irritated, and it is wasting much time.

Kevin

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[RE-wrenches] Schneider tech support AWOL?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone has had any response from Schneider renewable energy tech 
support of late? I have submitted 4 cases over the last 3 weeks, couple 
warranty claims, couple tech questions - and have had absolutely zero response.

My clients are starting to get irritated, and it is wasting much time.

Kevin

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Big AGM's and 24V Lithium batteries

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi,

The East Penn UnigyII 2V AGM batteries would be my recommendation. Can go up to 
2,100 Ah with single string of 12 x 2V cells. More if you parallel of course.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Schaefer
Sent: March-28-19 1:09 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big AGM's and 24V Lithium batteries

G'Day All,

Came across an older DIY 24v off-grid system. Looking to replace current AGM  
SunXtender batteries with less then 4 years on them but severely abused. Client 
won't go for my normal Rolls/Surrette because they are very sensitive to smells.

Thus I was considering LiFePo4 batteries however I'm having difficulties 
locating them in a 24v bank. If you know of anyone that goes that way please 
let me know.

So if I'm stuck with AGM's stored indoors what brand would you suggest for a 
heavy usage (1,500 Ahrs +) home?

Thanks,
Christopher-

Chris Schaefer’s
[http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png]
Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com

[http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Burkina Faso Off Grid

[Kevin Pegg]

The folks at African Energy have an outpost in Burkina Faso. 

http://africanenergy.com/african-energy-depot-list/ouagadougou-burkina-faso/

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Larry Brown
Sent: March-23-19 2:40 PM
To: re-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Burkina Faso Off Grid

Wrenches

I had a call from someone looking for an installer to do some off grid 
installations in Burkina Faso, Africa They have a school project they are 
working on

If anyone does work in that part of the world would you get in touch and I will 
hook you up with Pascal

Thanks
Larry

Larry Brown
Sun Mountain
845-657-8096
sunmount...@netstep.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage seeking transfer switch

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Mac,

You could look into an Auto Transfer Switch such as the ASCO 185 series that 
will do this. The larger $$ units such as the 7000 series have a lot more 
programming options in them.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mac Lewis
Sent: March-19-19 7:55 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Voltage seeking transfer switch

Hello Wrenches,

Does anyone have experience with a 200A outdoor transfer switch that will 
automatically seek voltage?  Meaning that if priority voltage source (grid) 
isn't available and second source is available it will switch to it with no 
external communication?  We are trying to do a whole house backup, and critical 
load panel isn't possible.  This may be common, I just haven't done it.

Thanks in advance

--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 13.4kW on two Conext 80-600?

[Kevin Pegg]

My understanding is the intention is to get more power into batteries from the 
arrays during low light conditions, knowing that there is way too much power 
when there is full sun and will be limited to 5 kW max per controller.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of d...@foxfire-energy.com
Sent: November-01-18 9:40 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 13.4kW on two Conext 80-600?


Hi Guys, I have a customer wanting me to set 40 335W panels (13.4kW) using two 
Schneider Conext 80-600 (80A) charge controllers.. said it's a Conext tech 
support design.. Seems like that's a whole bunch of clipping to me.. What am I 
missing? tks db

Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fat Spaniel

[Kevin Pegg]

Yes, correct on all - servers long since gone. We had a few of these going back 
12 years. They got bought out in 2010 and not sure what happened after that.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Peter Parrish
Sent: October-22-18 1:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fat Spaniel


I have a client with a Fat Spaniel box. They can't remember their user name and 
password. I did a little digging and I came to the conclusion that the Fat 
Spaniel product is no longer being sold, no longer being supported, and their 
cloud server has been taken down.

Am I right -- on any account?

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
California Solar Engineering
1107 Fair Oaks, Ave. Ste. 351
South Pasadena, CA 91030
(323)839-6108


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Re: [RE-wrenches] deka ultra battery

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Jay, 

I have seen, touched and priced out but not yet installed or used. Spent a lot 
of time with their engineers working with a couple customers of mine. The 
ultrabattery looks interesting, but finding the price point very high and my 
clients so far not wanting to spend a lot of money on something that is new and 
unproven. About 2x the price of UnigyII. I've tried to work on them to give me 
a very good deal on a demo set for my place, but didn't get far with that. I am 
not sure how to sell something that there is limited experience with. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: September-30-18 11:37 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] deka ultra battery

HI All,

Has anyone installed, seen, used or priced the Deka Ultrabattery for stationary 
applications? ( solar)

Thanks

jay

peltz power


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Step-up/Step-down Transformer question

[Kevin Pegg]

Curious some years ago I was asked to audit a system with a similar design. The 
question I was asked to answer is why the net kWh exported to the grid was much 
less than they hoped. The punchine was the idle load on the dry transformers 
were soaking up about 20% of the PV array's net production.

So from that lesson, I have made it a practice to avoid transformers if at all 
possible. In fact, a mini-grid retrofit we are doing now involves removal of 
numerous transformers and to consolidate with 120/208V for all but the deep 
well pumps and effluent plant we will keep at 600V.

What I concluded from this is better to run higher voltage DC lines for the 
long runs. Haven't had that situation come up again to test.

Have others looked into transformer losses?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Darryl Thayer
Sent: September-18-18 9:34 AM
To: newrewrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Step-up/Step-down Transformer question

The single phase - 3phase change is too difficult and expensive.  Stay with 
single phase.  I have done this successfully with a step up and down 
transformer.  You, of course, need to select the correct transformer.  
Transformers seem to have a price advantage using standard voltages.  For 
example, starting at building 240 to 480 and then use 480-volt inverters.  This 
will require longer strings for the 480-volt single phase inverter.   another 
way is to use 240 to 240-480-volt and carry a neutral.  then select inverters 
that can operate with no neutral, I call them floating output.  This cuts 
current in half, voltage drop or rise by 1/4 allowing smaller wire.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:42 AM Lorenzo Ortiz 
mailto:lore...@cal-solar.com>> wrote:
Wrenches,

We have a PV array situated about 900' from the POI (240V 1PH). We initially 
spec'd (5) 11.4kW inverters and the combined output would be 238A. The wire 
size required for this current over that distance is cost prohibitive.

A solution was to use a single 50kW 3 phase inverter at the array and then 
convert it to 240V... somehow? Is anyone familiar with how to go about doing 
this? My thought was to have a step down transformer at the POI and pull off 
two legs to get 240V. Is this even a thing?

The other, more expensive option is to use a step up transformer at the array 
and a step down at the POI to get us a smaller wire size.

Thanks for any input.


--
Loren Ortiz   Commercial PV Designer

lo...@cal-solar.com  (530) 274-3671
  
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=0B6l5VcsZgAv3TXRfSkhpZUNaczQ=0B6l5VcsZgAv3djFpMk9EQUdEdmg1K0hFdHBNZVlTZ3RZdW5VPQ]


[http://californiasolarco.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/CalSolarADVOCATE.png]
Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[Kevin Pegg]

I've been packing a Hioki Power Quality Analyser along with me to all manner of 
remote sites for at least a decade. It has performed perfectly and would not 
hesitate to recommend that brand.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Will White
Sent: September-13-18 12:19 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

I've google searched for 1,500 VDC meters and didn't come up with anything 
other than the Amprobe model.

I looked at the Hioki website and it looks pretty amazing and it costs around 
$340. It's got many features plus it hooks to an app via bluetooth so it can 
datalog.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 2:18 PM 
mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net>> wrote:
Hi Will, Jay, et al,

I have three years experience with a lower capacity Hioki clamp meter and could 
not be more pleased.

Have you investigated what a Google search offers?

Thanks,

Bill Loesch
314 631 1094



-
From: "jay"
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday September 13 2018 10:07:17AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

HI Will,

I found this unit from Japan.
Hioki CM4372

jay

peltz power



On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White 
mailto:w...@solarenergy.org>> wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my 
meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for 1,500 
VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I won't have 
to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC systems.

The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a 
multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can only 
measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is the 
Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the budget.

Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you 
techs in the field using?

Thanks,
Will

--
Will White
Curriculum Developer

[image]
e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34


FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power the 
world with renewable energy.

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the 
change.
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Curriculum Developer

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=12H3Cu2gnX7TKTeETn1WsYqa8cp6gsEj1=0B7yAwArWHgPbNzhGK00wT0diY1c1NWhlRlNocDRVd045eTFjPQ]
e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34


FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power the 
world with renewable energy.

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the 
change.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L16RE-2V set-points

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Mac,

So essentially this unfortunate battery bank was being close to Equalize 
charged daily for a couple years? Must have gone through a lot of water. I 
agree with your diagnosis they just cooked them, plates are dissolving = a 
seriously over-charged and ruined battery bank. Hopefully she doesn't shoot the 
messenger when you sell a new bank. Only times I would use settings like that 
is if using PV to recondition some batteries that suffered an opposite fate to 
this situation of chronic discharge. Even then would only be a couple weeks.

I like the saying ' batteries don't die, they are murdered ' .

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mac Lewis
Sent: September-11-18 5:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L16RE-2V set-points

Hello wrenches,

I inspected a system that another company had installed.  It had single string 
of 12 x Trojan L16RE-2V batteries about 2 years old.  They had experienced a 
battery melt-down.  It looks as though the meltdown had occurred internally, 
not from a bad connection.

The system was dual stack Outback VFXR-3524A inverters (to be precise one was a 
sealed unit).  The set-points were as follows:
Absorb Voltage was 29.8V
Absorb Time was 6.0 hours
Float Voltage was 27.0V
Rebulk Voltage was 27.0V
End Amps was 0A

These settings extended similarly to 2 x FM80 charge controllers.

I was able to jumper the melted battery and get her power in 15 minutes.  Her 
installer had left her without power for 2 weeks.  My clients will kill me if 
that happened!

Anyway, I believe these set-points are way out of whack and too aggressive.  
The voltage is OK (Trojan recommends ~29.6V for this) but the Absorb time seems 
way too long, Rebulk is too high and end amps isn't helping.  However, Im not 
finding a definitive article from Trojan that describes typical Absorb times or 
even how to adjust towards a good Absorb Time, based on specific gravity 
measurements or amperage absorption.

My diagnosis is that these batteries have been cooked over the past 2 years.  
In the electrolyte, there is noticeable "floaties".  The client said that the 
original installer had accused her of not using distilled water, but I don't 
believe that would cause her symptoms.  I believe the floaties are plate 
material.

I'd be interested in wrenches opinions familiar with these batteries if these 
are appropriate settings for a low energy user.  I will attempt to get through 
to Trojan as well.

Thanks in advance



--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Gary,

The SQFlex is current limited to 8.4A regardless of voltage. I have not had 
positive experiences running SQFlex from DC voltage from a battery. It can 
work, but you will not get full output volume if you are restricted to 48VDC. 
The SQFlex is really designed to work with higher DC voltages up to 300 VDC 
from PV arrays. We run many at 120VDC PV direct and that works well. I expect, 
not tested, that a 120VDC battery bank would also run it well but that is 
uncommon.

Have you considered having a second small inverter from the battery to fulfil 
customer's request for redundant power supply? Lots simpler. That is what we 
ended up doing on a few sites we did try DC, 24V 600W inverters are low cost 
and simple. Or could you switch some of the PV to use as DC-direct as a backup?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Gary Higbee
Sent: August-21-18 11:18 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex

Hi Wrenches,

I’m assisting a customer and well person in replacing a failed Lorentz ETApump 
(after 15 years of intermittent use). We’re looking for a quality DC-DC 
converter to power a not-yet- ordered Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-3 from a 24 V 
Surrette battery bank (wish it was 48!). The pump draws a max of 8.4A and the 
curves say we’ll need about 600 watts so I figure we’d want at least 70 volts 
out. Ideal would be a higher DC output, say 200V (save a couple hundred feet of 
larger copper, greater efficiency) and at least 3A (see questions).

The primary power source will be 240V AC but my customer wants a fallback for 
battery operation. We plan to use the Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box, which 
will switch to DC if the AC fails. Also the CU 200 SQFlex control unit, so we 
can accommodate the existing float switch up the hill, etc.

The Grundfos tech person I spoke with today said the DC system should be able 
to supply 8.4A, regardless of the DC voltage.The pump curve says we need 600W 
for maximum performance at the lift we’ve got. It seems to me that if we’ve got 
200V and need 600W we’d be drawing 3A. Yet if the Grundfos factory line is 
there should be 8.4A available that’s 1680W. The tech guy said he didn’t have 
specific information why we’d need 8.4A regardless of pump input voltage.

The Grundfos Product Guide says:

Max. ratings are as follows:
• Maximum power input (P1) of 1400 W
• maximum current of 8.4 A
• maximum speed of 3600 rpm (think I read somewhere it’s 3000 rpm for this 
helical rotor model)

The pump delivers its maximum performance when one of the above parameters is 
reached.

Two questions:

1) Do any of you have experience running the SQFlex on DC, and what to make of 
the 8.4A at any input voltage factory recommendation? Maybe basic 
amps/volts/power calculations aren’t applicable given the pump electronics?

2) Are you aware of any DC-DC converters that will get us from a nominal 24V 
battery bank to 200V, or somewhere between 70 and 200V, with an appropriate 
current limiting amp rating to get us at least 600W (depending on thoughts 
regarding the above question)?


Thank you,

Gary

Gary Higbee
Windstream Solar
Oregon License 17LRT
Renewable Energy Consulting
g...@windstreamsolar.com
541-954-3881
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off grid

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Aaron,

Echoing some comments already, what I do with these queries:

- Qualify their power needs. Is this an arbitrary 200A as stipulated by the 
(old) NEC square footage rules? Or is this real actual load? Needs to have some 
load calculations and qualification of their loads. This can usually be 
determined in a short phone call ie are they using electricity for any heating 
purposes.
- During this call I gauge customer's enthusiasm for being off-grid. Customers 
that embrace the idea I find are easier than ones that consider off-grid a 
nuisance, as the latter will generally never be happy with anything other than 
unlimited power grid.
- Sometimes there are real customers with real big power needs and a budget to 
support it. I'd say maybe 10% of the time. The rest of the inquires with a bit 
of planning can get them into a more modest 10 or so kW system and it runs 
everything with power to spare.

Lots of options for larger systems - XW, SMA, Radian. I am finishing up a 400A 
3 Phase SMA installation presently. Big power is definitely possible.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Aaron Mandelkorn
Sent: July-23-18 4:29 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large off grid

What do you say to the person who wants "200 amp" electrical service from their 
off grid system.  I generally use Schneider xw+ inverters.  Is it even possible 
to put 4 or 6 of them together? How many radians can be put together? I'm 
curious to know how others would proceed or is this to unreasonable to spend my 
time on.
Aaron Mandelkorn
President / Founder
Renewable Energy Outfitters
www.reosolar.com
Off Grid Depot
www.offgridnow.com
970-596-3744


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out of control

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi John,

Sounds like a nightmare. I'd call hogwash on tech support saying too small 
battery bank, it is small but shouldn't cause XW to ignore settings. I don't 
suspect the SCP, it is just a display not a brain.

A full list of programmed parameters is useful.

- have you disconnected BTS and checked if behavior changed?
- setting charger = off may stop this wild charging behaviour, force it to just 
sell surplus PV, but would need manual intervention to charge up from grid ie 
after an outage if this is setup for backup as well.

I had something along this line some years ago, ignoring programming. Ended up 
doing a complete software delete and reload via XDT and complete total system 
reprogram and it started to behave properly. This is not the same as resetting 
to factory.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of John Blittersdorf
Sent: June-27-18 8:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out of 
control

Hello Group.
I have a customer with an XW4548 grid tied with a Classic 200 CC, 16 
Evergreen ES-A210's,
8 Interstate L16 Batteries, with generator backup.  We have had issues with it 
not selling, selling and then charging at high rates way beyond the settings.  
This has been an ongoing problem for 6 years and currrently are 18 months into 
the 2nd battery pack and showing depleted battery life.  Xantrex tech support 
says that the battery capacity is too small and we are not setting it up 
correctly.  Before the first set of batteries had one battery explode, we had 
spent countless hours with their tech support trying to get this inverter to 
behave properly.  Even when going through every setting with tech support, we 
never got it to work quite right.  Setting to factory defaults did not work. 
Found that the default absorption time was 6 hours and the inverter battery 
charger was pushing up to 75 amps into this battery, then selling at about 40 
to 60 amps DC and then immediately charging and then selling.  I estimate this 
battery pack may have had thousands of massive charge and discharge cycles... 
good reason for the batteries to be weak now. After a few of these wild cycles, 
it would fault with DC overvoltage.  It would eventually clear the fault and do 
this crazy cycle again.  I programmed the inverter charger to the lowest 
setting of 10%,  Lowered the battery capacity setting to 200 ah from 360,  set 
the charge timer to not run during the hours we were there.  None of these 
changes made any significant difference.  We also set the maximum Sell amps AC 
down to 3 amps which should have kept it at about 720 watts but we were still 
seeing it sell up to 2500 watts.  Before we reset that,, it was selling up to 
4000 watts.

Could it be a defective SCP. There is no internet there to allow us to see the 
past performance.

Does anyone have a clue what is going on.  I have worked with Outback Radians 
in this same configuration with no problems at all.  I am about ready to rip it 
off the wall and replace it with a Radian.

John Blittersdorf
Rob Stubbins Electrical and Solar.
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[RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues FYI

[Kevin Pegg]

In case anyone is wondering why the Conext portal data has been screwed up for 
a week, and as of this moment most sites are offline:

" The data processing side of Conext Insight is having troubles with the 
current workload.  The data is not lost, but it can take a significant amount 
of time for some packets to be completely processed.  If a single packet takes 
too long to process, it is rescheduled for a random time in the future in the 
hopes that the workload on the machine is lower and the packet will be 
successfully processed.  It appears that some packets are being rescheduled 
repeatedly and taking a week to land in a window when they can be successfully 
processed.

The design team has identified this issue and is addressing it at the moment by 
simplifying the layout of the database tables to speed up processing.  This 
process requires that all existing data in the database be restructured to the 
new table layout.  As this is a very large and long running transaction, packet 
processing is effectively on hold for the rest of the day.  It should begin to 
clear up in a few hours as the backlog of packets is processed through."

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello Ray, 

I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems with 100 
kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token renewable inputs. I 
feel with this configuration we close maxing out what can be done with 48VDC. 

Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be well 
beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of the SMA 
systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle this kind of 
current. 

If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there are any 
alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often massive levels 
of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is the duty cycle of that 
motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better to go directly diesel for 
that? 

In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface 
skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized generators 
that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech to what Tesla is 
doing in Australia. 

Kevin


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is 
currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for normal 
off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 phase.  Surges 
are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control programming to bring that 
number down substantially.  That is due primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. 
(that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations are dictating that the current 
generator be retired in the near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we 
need to offer a viable off grid option as well.

My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with large 
format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid systems running 
in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a 250 kW inverter that 
has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is easier to make claims in spec 
sheets than to deliver hard motor starting power in a remote location.  We need 
proven products, with a track record of reliability.

We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel 
consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to 
maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads. Ideally we 
would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ yr and reduce its 
size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year round, and the 
possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather to meet these goals.

Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase with storage

[Kevin Pegg]

We are building a similar system presently, 60 kW Sunny Island Inverters, 400 
kWh battery storage (FLA), dual 100 kW backup generators, 25 kW PV, 5 kW 
microhydro.

Don't know what raw capacity you are looking for, we also use XW inverters for 
smaller systems but find they don't scale nearly as well as SMA for larger 
power needs.

I'd like to go with Lithium battery tech but it still looks like pricing is 
still 2-3x Flooded Lead Acid and my clients don't tend to want to be on the 
bleeding edge more looking for field proven reliability.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: April-17-18 10:48 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase with storage

Aloha all.
I'm on the hunt for workable options for a PV plus storage design for a 3-phase 
120/208 application.
And there ain't much out there at present.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
mahalo,
marco
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Pond Aerators

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Drake,

Let me know if you need help finding supplier contacts. In past we have sourced 
aerators and 12V compressors from aquaculture industry supply shops. They had 
many options available, match the compressor to PV module with LCB and done 
deal.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: April-03-18 8:33 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Pond Aerators

At one time, simple solar pond aerators were available. A small PV module and a 
box with a 12 V deep cycle battery, and a pump were mounted on a post. A hose 
with a weight on it went into the pond. This system seemed to work well for 
small ponds.

Does anything like this still exist?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues

[Kevin Pegg]

I think my issue was the particular tech rep I was attempting to work with. I 
resubmitted my case and got a new rep who's first response was: 

"I'm really sorry about the insight issues. There were major system updates 
done on the system last week which might have caused some data issues. The 
server team is investigating and I will keep you informed of the progress. If 
you can export a chart from one of the comboxes which does not match the 
insight data that would help us greatly.

So I am working with them sending data showing the discrepancies between live 
data on the combox and the slightly delayed data on the portal. 

I urge any wrenches who are relying on the Insight portal presently to verify 
the data you are seeing is in fact correct. Right now about 1/2 the sites I 
monitor are incorrect. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: March-09-18 1:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues

Kevin,

I always thought you were Maverick?  I attached a sreen shot from insight.
I use it every day on about 15 systems that I "house sit".

There always is a delay of up to 18 minutes or so. I have not had any problems 
and so I would say it is on your end. Try another computer and make sure all 
the firmware is up to date. Look at the combox events page and see if something 
is not right. It should reboot every night just after
3 am.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060



> I hadn’t noticed, but I also hadn’t been cross checking. I can 
> compare a couple sites to see if it is happening here.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:55 PM, Kevin Pegg <kp...@energyalternatives.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> I am curious if others out there are using the Conext Insight Portal 
>> to monitor Schneider-based systems?
>>
>> I have been using this portal for a while now. When it works I find 
>> it very useful and fast to have a quick snapshot of system status. 
>> Lots faster than having to log into individual systems.
>>
>> However, recently the portal data has been very unreliable, and tech 
>> support is generally dismissive of my concerns. At present state, 
>> about half of my customer sites are displaying completely inaccurate 
>> information. At first glance there is nothing wildly abnormal about 
>> the data so you might think it is ok. Except it is all wrong it is as 
>> if it is displaying another site. I have submitted details of my 
>> findings to tech support, and to date they have not accepted that this is a 
>> problem.
>> This started on March 7th. Some customers are getting irritated now.
>>
>> Curious if others are using this system and if you have had any 
>> similar issues. Which you may not notice unless you do the direct 
>> comparison between combox or other live data and portal data.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
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[RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello Wrenches,

I am curious if others out there are using the Conext Insight Portal to monitor 
Schneider-based systems?

I have been using this portal for a while now. When it works I find it very 
useful and fast to have a quick snapshot of system status. Lots faster than 
having to log into individual systems.

However, recently the portal data has been very unreliable, and tech support is 
generally dismissive of my concerns. At present state, about half of my 
customer sites are displaying completely inaccurate information. At first 
glance there is nothing wildly abnormal about the data so you might think it is 
ok. Except it is all wrong it is as if it is displaying another site. I have 
submitted details of my findings to tech support, and to date they have not 
accepted that this is a problem. This started on March 7th. Some customers are 
getting irritated now.

Curious if others are using this system and if you have had any similar issues. 
Which you may not notice unless you do the direct comparison between combox or 
other live data and portal data.

Kevin

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Howie,

I have installed about 10 of these and all have worked well, longest operating 
unit about 3 years old. My only complaint is the 600V input breakers are not 
really thought through, as my understanding is code does not permit 600VDC 
within the PDP, Midnite, etc enclosure. So we use a SquareD CH361 external 
fused disconnect and keep all the 600V wiring external to the PDP. Curious how 
others approach that.

Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
37471 Hwy 16 E
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
250-846-9888
Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Howie Michaelson
Sent: January-18-18 8:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller

Hi All,
Anyone have feedback/review of the 600 volt Schneider Charge Controller that 
they'd care to share?  I have an existing Conext XW+ off-grid system with 
combox communication setup which currently has about 1.5 kW of solar feeding 
through 2 MX60s (no hub). We'll be adding about 5kW (on a TPM about 150' away) 
and I'm trying to decide if overall it would be better to use the Schneider 
600v (which I haven't used before, although I have serviced the 150v XW with no 
real complaints).  Typically I would use a Classic200, but given the ability to 
integrate with the XW6848 and communicate through the Combox for more offsite 
visibility, I'm considering the Schneider, but only if it's not going to 
provide me with the benefit of added service calls.
TIA!
Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter question

[Kevin Pegg]

We have just received some product from solar converters. I don't believe they 
are out of business. 

We use their 48-12V converters frequently for situations like this. Lower idle 
loads and higher efficiency than using a 12V power supply from Iota or others. 

Though have had a couple failures of these converters in recent years. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Roy Butler
Sent: December-19-17 6:15 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter question

FYI.It appears that Solar Converters may be out of business.

Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com

Check out the 14th Annual Small Wind Conference A Gathering of Installers, 
Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors April 9-10, 2018 Twin Cities, MN 
www.smallwindconference.com

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

On 12/19/2017 7:28 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> Allen, John, et al,
> Aren't DC-DC converters a mainstay of Solar Converters, Inc. product 
> line?
> Just to toss another manufacturer into the mix.
> Stay warm, stay safe,
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631 1094
>
>   -From: "John Blittersdorf"
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Cc:
> Sent: 19-Dec-2017 11:54:47 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter question
>
>   Allan,
>   I have used the Mean-well converters several times and have had good
>   luck. My other choice would be an Iota but definitely more expensive.
>
>   John Blittersdorf
>   Rob Stubbins Solar
>
>   On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:29 AM Sindelar Solar
>   wrote:
>
>   > Wrenches,
>   > The time has come to upgrade a longtime client's 1985 12V system 
> and
>   > original Trace 1512 inverter. The inverter still works fine after
> 32
>   > years of continuous operation, but 12V is too limited to allow much
>   > expansion. The power system has numerous 12V loads - mostly 
> lighting
>   > throughout the home, as the 12V SunFrost fridge will also be 
> replaced,
>   > so a 24-12 step-down DC-DC converter is part of the upgrade.
>   >
>   > Is there any reason that I shouldn't use a Mean Well RSD-300B-12
>   > (https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/rsd300.pdf) [1] wouldn't 
> fill the
>   > bill? I'm familiar with this brand, as they were used for years by 
> Array
>   > Technologies to step down voltage to run tracker drives, and I have
>   > never known (or heard of on this list) of a failure. The price is 
> right
>   > too at a bit over $100.
>   >
>   > Any reviews, cautions, or other recommendations?
>   > Thank you,
>   > Allan
>   > --
>   >
>   > *Allan Sindelar*
>   > al...@sindelarsolar.com
>   > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>   > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>   > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>   > *505 780-2738 cell*
>   >
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> Links:
> --
> [1] https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/rsd300.pdf)
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Change 

Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW concrete base

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi William, 

We have been recently exploring the idea of driven-pipe footings, or ground 
screws for small pole mounted solar arrays. I'd appreciate any lessons or 
experiences you have with this to share. 

Thanks, 

Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. 
37471 Hwy 16 E
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
250-846-9888
Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca 


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: July-11-17 7:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW concrete base

Friends:

I always avoided structural engineering costs. We used recommended footings 
which were always oversized. 

However, as the cost of excavation, concrete and steel has increased, good 
engineering will pay for itself in reduction of all of the above. 

For example, we frequently avoid using excavation and concrete with driven-pipe 
footings. It's a huge savings in time and materials. 

William

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Hilton Dier <hiltond...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We never did the calculation for pole mounts. We just used the biggest base 
> size they listed and cast on an extra foot of depth in the form of a square 
> footer. We figured that an extra half yard of concrete is cheap compared to 
> the cost of the digging and form setting. The cost of a 36" sonotube instead 
> of a 32" one is minimal. Peace of mind is priceless.
> 
> Hilton
> 
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island

[Kevin Pegg]

You could use a 2 -> 3 wire converter such as the Atkinson GSCM module that 
will take the 2 wire output from the SI and convert to 3-wire to control a 
gasoline generator such as the Honda EU7000 series, or Cummins/Onan makes a 
good line of gasoline generators. It may be very hard to find a gas generator 
that has 2 wire native remote start. That is more common with larger propane or 
diesel generators.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of August Goers
Sent: June-16-17 7:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island

Thanks for the good feedback folks!

We are using a Sunny Island setup because we had access to a free Sunny Island 
and Sunny Boy being scrapped from another site. Otherwise I was definitely 
planning on going with a Outback DC coupled system.

I think the trick here is trying to find a portable generator that has a 
two-wire start option. I’m looking through the usual genny suppliers and 
nothing has presented itself so far. Anyway, I’ll keep looking and will check 
out Chris’ suggestion on the nexus controller and Generac propane unit as well.

FYI, here is a link to what the portal is like. It’s going in National Park 
land by the Golden Gate Bridge so I hope we can pull it together! 
http://www.sharedstudios.com/

August
Luminalt


From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Chris Mason
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 4:56 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island

To my limited mind, the whole 120V sunny island setup is a disaster. Why not 
install a DC coupled 8KW Outback Radian and solve all your problems. USe any 
240V generator, although finding a 2 wire start gasoline unit may be hard. I 
would use a Nexus controller generac propane generator with propane tank, all 
mounted on the container. I would never design anything to use gasoline, it's 
too dangerous.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Matthew Sirum 
> wrote:
Greetings August,

Great thoughts and comments from Brian!  I would also suggest speaking
with the generator manufacturers' tech/engineering folks regarding the
120VAC configuration and to confirm 2-wire start set up once you have
a brand and model or two in mind.  Generator parts and service
availability in the region of the project may also drive brand
selection.  If you need to maximize the inverter's battery charging
capabilities (depending on battery system charging requirements) you
may end up needing to look at generators in the 7.5 kW to 8.0 kW
capacity range to allow for headroom in generator output loading.

Also; I am curious how you arrived at an AC coupled design for this
project.  I do not know any of the details or specific projects goals
you are working with, but I would potentially consider a DC coupled
system design...  DC/DC charge controller(s) would keep the battery
system charged (and any DC loads operable) even if the Sunny Island
and/or Sunny Boy(s) have a failure or is taken offline.  If most of
the AC loads are 120VAC I would consider keeping the inverter AC
output circuit 120VAC and install a dedicated transformer solely for
the 240VAC load  Or perhaps consider a 120/240VAC inverter model.
Depending on the overall situation a DC coupled system could be more
resilient.  The dedicated transformer for the 240VAC load could also
potentially help make the system more robust.  Also; I have spoken
with a number of folks who have told me they wish the Sunny Island had
more/better features for generator integration.  I'd like to hear more
from those who have plenty of experience designing and installing
systems with Sunny Islands and generators to learn what the current
thoughts and issues are.

I hope some of these thoughts may be helpful.

Best regards,

MATT

Matthew Sirum
P.O. Box 1227
Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
phone: +1.413.773.0611
email: matthewsi...@gmail.com


  Original Message Below 

[RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
August Goers august at luminalt.com
Thu Jun 15 09:02:41 PDT 2017

Hi Wrenches, especially those of you who work on off-grid projects,

We have an upcoming off-grid project where we will be powering a storage
container with electronics in it. The loads are mostly 120 volt but there
is a 240 volt heat pump that might occasionally run. We’re AC coupling the
Sunny Island with a Sunny Boy PV inverter. So, we’ll be installing a
Outback PSX-240 autoformer to bump the Sunny Island’s output from 120 to
240 volt.

We need to select a generator for backup. We need a two-wire electric start
(in order to be controlled by the Sunny Island) and preferably a generator
that 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging

[Kevin Pegg]

This is a good one. What battery capacity have you programmed into the XW 
system? We have had a few issues, though not this one specifically, but similar 
head-scratchers that were resolved by setting the battery capacity to 0 Ah. 

Have you tried swapping AC1 and AC2 and does the problem follow the source or 
the input? 

I recently had an odd issue with generator automation on AC1 on an XW+ and 
Schneider tech support was helpful in replicating the issue in their lab and 
issuing a fix. Might be worth engaging them if you haven't already. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Lerner
Sent: May-03-17 3:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging

Hello All,

I’m working on a system with 3 Xantrex XW 6048’s that has grid on AC1 and a 20 
kw generator on AC2.  When charging from grid it regulates during an absorption 
charge at 58.2 where it should.  When charging from AC 2 - generator, the 
battery Voltage rises above 62 VDC,  but not every single time.  All the 
settings are correct, EQ is turned off, and if it accidentally got turned on is 
set at the same Voltage as the absorption setting.  Customer has a brand new 33 
kWh AGM battery bank,  that I would rather not fry.  This is a battery backup 
system with no PV.

I have checked all the temperature sensors (they seem good) and tried charging 
with them plugged in,  and with them unplugged and it doesn’t seem to change 
the situation. 

Has anybody else seen this happen before?  Any suggestions?

Thanks very much,

Jason Lerner
Waldron Power and Light Co.
(888) 927-2526

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Need Sunny Webbox - Contact offlist

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Jeff,

Well that is highly irritating of SMA. I have  couple webboxes in stock, brand 
new, never opened if you want to buy.


Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
37471 Hwy 16 E
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
250-846-9888
Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jeff Clearwater
Sent: April-13-17 4:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need Sunny Webbox - Contact offlist

Hi Folks,

Well I've designed and sold an 18 KW Sunny Island / Sunny Boy system for the 
Carribean but SMA informs me that they have nothing to replace the discontinued 
Sunny Webbox for another several months.

I can't simply tell my customer - "oh by the way - you know that cadillac 
system I sold you and am installing in June?  oh the manufacturer has no 
monitoring solution for you"!  Especially after repeating over and over again 
the most important part of any off-grid system is the battery % gauge in the 
kitchen!!!

So if anyone has a SUNNY WEBBOX out there - or knows where I can get one.  
Please contact me OFFLIST.

Thanks so!

Best

Jeff
--
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
Renewable Energy Design & Installation
Ecovillage Design Consultant

NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46
www.villagepowerdesign.com<http://www.villagepower.com>
413-559-9763
~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Versatile remote monitoring component

[Kevin Pegg]

Related, this is a similar type of product for remote telecom sites, we have 
used dozens of these for many interesting configurations. The relays on this 
unit allow for a lot of options from rebooting devices to starting generator.

http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: November-22-16 11:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Versatile remote monitoring component

Wrenches,
I support the PV for several Access Point sites for a local wireless internet 
provider, a nonprofit that serves rural and remote areas around Santa Fe. 
Through working with them I learned of a product that others here may find 
useful at remote sites. It's a Web Based Remote Monitor and Control System.

Info is at 
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=TPDINMONITORWEB===0. From 
the web page: The PowerSENS is a versatile tool which enables the equipment 
designer and installer to remotely monitor his equipment and site. The unit can 
be accessed via the network (web and SNMP) to remotely monitor up to 4 voltages 
(up to 80V DC), 4 currents (up to 16A), 2 temperatures and control power to 
various equipment using 4 on-board relays. The system has built-in surge 
protection to prevent damage from electrical surges.

Runs on 12-48V DC.
Allan
--

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


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Re: [RE-wrenches] GSLC work-arounds

[Kevin Pegg]

Thanks.

I don't know exactly the reasons for the comm cable shielding, as that happened 
after my main involvement. I do know during initial product testing with the 
earliest firmware there was challenges with keeping Xanbus communication 
network stable in the noisy RF environments inverters live in. Subsequent 
firmware updates improved that dramatically.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: October-12-16 5:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GSLC work-arounds

HI Kevin,

Many thanks.  The PDP is the best box out there.
Easy to work in.  Will handle 4 CC, 3 inverters.
And as many have requested it uses large Airpax breakers for the DC and QOU for 
the AC.

One question on that, what was the thinking about having to put the comm cable 
in the shielded trays?
No one else does that?

Thanks
jay
peltz power
On Oct 12, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Kevin Pegg 
<kp...@energyalternatives.ca<mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca>> wrote:

I am a big fan of the Schneider XW system, and the XW Power Distribution Panel. 
Full disclosure - I helped design it. The original design was this tiny cramped 
thing and all of us in the design advisory team said 'make it big'. We 
generally go with external bypass assemblies for configurations more than 2 
inverters, using a more conventional manual transfer switch.

SMA deployments, when coupled with the Multi-Cluster enclosure and some sheet 
metal trays works quite well. I've not yet used Midnite's solution for SMA 
inverter installs.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: October-12-16 10:37 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GSLC work-arounds

Kevin:

I am curious, what brand would you prefer over the Radian that has wiring 
cabinet design that is “safe and easy to work on”?

I hope everyone understands I generally like the GSLC and the Radian line.  The 
Radian BOS available is superior to that of most other brands, the Sunny Island 
line, for example, which has no BOS at all.  With some intelligent design and a 
few tips and tricks, the Radian can make a very nice install.

William

PS:  I am increasingly excited to try the Midnite MNDC15.  Although it has the 
same problem with back-wired breakers, it allows one to move all PV disconnects 
to a point adjacent to the charge controllers.  This removes the last breaker 
froth GSLC other than the inverter breakers.

Wm


Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]
 On Behalf Of Kevin Pegg
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:15 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GSLC work-arounds

Thank you very much for sharing this. Reinforces my avoidance of the Outback 
Radian line. Given there are other products on the market that perform the same 
functions, with the added bonus of wiring cabinet design that is actually safe 
and easy to work on without many hrs of re-design work, I don't see any 
advantages to this product line.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: October-11-16 2:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] GSLC work-arounds

Friends:

We resolved our web authoring problem and threw together a little page to 
illustrate some of the issues we have with the GSLC.  If anyone is interested, 
direct your browser to:

http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/GSLC/GSLC.html

I hope the time and effort I put into these web pages is helpful to someone out 
there.  I always try to give back to the industry by sharing some of my trade 
secrets.

Sincerely,

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wireless AGS for Magnum?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Ron, 

Wireless AGS extension can be done with wireless radio modems. Short range kit 
will cost about $500 US for the hardware. I've used these before. 

http://www.bb-elec.com/Products/Wireless-Cellular/Zlinx-Wireless-Modems-and-I-O/Zlinx-Industrial-Grade-Wireless-Radio-Modems.aspx

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of RM You
Sent: September-22-16 5:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wireless AGS for Magnum?

Hi Wrenches,
I have a customer with a compromised underground wire from the Magnum AGS to 
his generator 150’ away. It quit working after 4 years. He’s wondering if there 
is another option to digging up the cable such as a wireless device. I’m 
thinking that the problem is the negative continuity between batteries which 
couldn’t be solved with a wireless device. Any suggestions appreciated!

Ron Young
earthRight Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Amphenol and MC4 crimper

[Kevin Pegg]

I purchased a Helios H4TC0001 crimper, as recommended by Kyocera and have to 
report it as junk. After wrecking several H4 crimps I went back to using the 
German-Made Multi-Contact tool used for MC4 connectors and it appears to do a 
fine job on the H4 crimps. Just difficult to have everything lined up, and to 
stay lined up.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Carl Adams
Sent: September-21-16 12:58 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Amphenol and MC4 crimper

Hello Wrenches,

I wanted to ask you about Helios and MC4 crimpers.  I bought a set of 
theAmpenol H4 crimp teeth and loactor for my Reinstag crimper some time back, 
to handle the Amphenol H4 connectors They work well but require changing the 
locator for femal and male crimps and they are expensive.  I see this tool is 
out there.
[https://www.aeeexpress.com/crsdocroot/content/images/products/large/31135d29b45b4df100694d590bae695e.png]
[https://www.aeeexpress.com/crsdocroot/content/images/products/large/31135d29b45b4df100694d590bae695e.png]

CRIMP TOOL 2.5MM-6MM, HELIOS 4, PV-670508-000
094-7



It seems a less expensive solution and simpler than the Reinstag set.  Any 
experience with this?  What are your thoughts.

With Regards
Carl Adams, President
SunRock Solar, LLC
513.290.9072 (cell)
513.766.6025 (office)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Issue with DR1512 and oven

[Kevin Pegg]

I have a copy of the official service and diagnostics manual for DR series. 
It's a 1.5" thick binder full of fold out legal pages, addendums, etc. Not the 
easiest thing to scan. Is there something particular you are looking for?

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: September-20-16 8:31 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Issue with DR1512 and oven

We are looking for a schematic for the DR series inverter. Does anyone have one 
they could send me?

Thank you,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/


At 07:25 PM 9/19/2016, you wrote:

Kristopher,
Ray's advice is sound, and I'll add: that 14 year old inverter is likely to 
last forever, and that's not a reason to keep using it. It's almost certainly 
the crude waveform that's causing the issues.
If range replacement remains the only option, talk with Peerless-Premier 
(www.premierrange.com). As of my last contact with 
them a few years ago, they still make unadvertised models with circuit boards 
that were designed for original Trace mod-square inverters and have no glow 
bars for the oven. Our family home has a decent Pro series (stainless front 
with sealed burners) with electric igniters and no glow bar.
Allan

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


On 9/19/2016 4:46 PM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:

Thanks Ray,

This is a circa 2002 inverter.  I may just tell them to go to a pilot light 
stove model (hate to waste gas, ya know).

Kris

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Ray Walters 
> wrote:
Sounds like ovens have gotten more complicated over the years.  As soon as I 
read "control board" and modified sine wave, I cringe.  The good old DR 
inverters worked great, I even ran my own shop on one for several years back in 
the 90s.  I for the most part quit selling them though, as even though most 
equipment worked on the mod sine, we started noticing premature failures.  I 
would attribute this to the extra heat generated by all the extra harmonic 
distortion.  Sorry I can't recommend an oven; they probably would be better 
going to something older form Craig's list with no AC connection at all.

R.Ray Walters



CTO, Solarray, Inc



Nabcep Certified PV Installer,



Licensed Master Electrician



Solar Design Engineer



303

505-8760
On 9/19/2016 4:35 PM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:

Hi Wrenches,
I have a client that has blown out 2 control boards on their oven in the last 
few months.  The appliance is a Whirlpool Model WFG515S0EW0 powered by a 
Xantrex DR1512.  Since this is an off-grid home, i recommended that they get an 
LP stove with no oven glow bar and this was the unit that the appliance company 
supplied.
Has anyone seen this before (i am assuming incompatibility of the circuitry 
with the modified sine wave output)?
Can you recommend another model that has been tried and true (preferably 
Whirlpool)?
Thanks tons,
Kris
--
Shine On!
Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE



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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6848 inverter leaf blower problem load

[Kevin Pegg]

I also have several quad XW stacks out there so am familiar with the 
challenges. As it happens, two of the inverters at this time are offline and 
breakers open, I should have specified that. So the system is actually working 
as a dual XW presently. During testing the master inverter was online and the 
slave in standby.

As for battery cables, I have 2 pairs of 4/0, twisted, each feeding two 
inverters through a PDP.

Customer reports they have a second leaf blower of another brand that works 
fine. I have suggested just replacing the problematic unit with one we know 
works, as chasing this down could eat up a lot of time.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Maverick Brown
Sent: September-12-16 5:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6848 inverter leaf blower problem load

The XW should be limited to 3 inverters. I've been there twice.

I think the issue has to do with four of those inverter transformers in 
parallel creating a large Inductive load that gets owned by the inductive load 
of the reef blower. I guess you could add prescribed AC capacitor to the reef 
blower and the issue goes away.

LEDs lights are likely large series strings of direct AC coupled voltage drop 
loads and any gap gets displayed.

Thank you,

Maverick


On Sep 12, 2016, at 4:16 PM, Kevin Pegg 
<kp...@energyalternatives.ca<mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca>> wrote:
Hello Wrenches,

I Installed a 4 x XW+6848 system with 4,000 Ah UnigyII AGM battery bank in the 
spring. New building site, cycle charging with generator presently until next 
year for PV installation.

Construction crew of ~15 has been running flawlessly off this system for 6 
months with every kind of power tool. 3 buildings serviced from a centralized 
power shed.

Homeowner adds a Black & Decker BV6000 leaf blower and problems arise. The 
blower starts fine, but most of the LED lights in the facility will flash on 
and off twice when the blower starts up. Not a flicker, but an off/on cycle 
about 1s each. This behavior extends to other buildings that might be 500' 
away. Works fine when running the generator in charge mode (therefore gen 
powering loads directly).

Testing this same leaf blower on my own single XW6048 system, with LED lights, 
and cannot replicate the issue. Even a small 2kW mod sine inverter in my 
service truck runs it fine.

I will put a call into Schneider but am not holding breath for help there.

Any ideas?

Kevin



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[RE-wrenches] XW6848 inverter leaf blower problem load

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello Wrenches,

I Installed a 4 x XW+6848 system with 4,000 Ah UnigyII AGM battery bank in the 
spring. New building site, cycle charging with generator presently until next 
year for PV installation.

Construction crew of ~15 has been running flawlessly off this system for 6 
months with every kind of power tool. 3 buildings serviced from a centralized 
power shed.

Homeowner adds a Black & Decker BV6000 leaf blower and problems arise. The 
blower starts fine, but most of the LED lights in the facility will flash on 
and off twice when the blower starts up. Not a flicker, but an off/on cycle 
about 1s each. This behavior extends to other buildings that might be 500' 
away. Works fine when running the generator in charge mode (therefore gen 
powering loads directly).

Testing this same leaf blower on my own single XW6048 system, with LED lights, 
and cannot replicate the issue. Even a small 2kW mod sine inverter in my 
service truck runs it fine.

I will put a call into Schneider but am not holding breath for help there.

Any ideas?

Kevin



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Re: [RE-wrenches] kwh for dishwasher

[Kevin Pegg]

For energy budgeting, I use 0.5 kWh per cycle with no heat dry / hot water temp 
boost. If using heat dry or hot water boost 1 - 1.5 kWh. Peak 1.5 kW for 
heating, 0.3 kW pumps only. 

And then of course use of this appliance may trigger water and effluent pumping 
concurrently. 

Based on metering several machines over the years, but not the newest. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: August-31-16 8:59 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] kwh for dishwasher

HI All,

I can’t find usage for a dishwasher.
And as I don’t have one I can’t test it.

Any ideas for a newer high efficiency one?

Both kw and kwh?  Worst case I guess?

thanks

jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Bill, 

The small Samlex inverters we find have very good power quality, but are 
lacking in surge capacity. We mainly use them on larger systems to isolate 
sensitive loads like home entertainment or computer networks. 

I'd be leery of this working well. For best service for your customer meter the 
washing machine through a cycle and then know for sure. A lot of them have 
fairly hefty spikes at certain times - ie when it starts the spin cycle and you 
have a whole load of soaked clothes being spun up. 

Also bear in mind washing machines can often trigger well pumps or effluent 
pumps concurrently adding to the load. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of frenergy
Sent: July-28-16 9:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off grid

Off-gridders,

 I've got a customer that wants to run a few very small loads (less 
than 200 watts) but also a 20 year old washing machine (vertical axis).  Any 
personal experiences with inverters smaller than the basic outback, Xantrex, 
trace, transformer type inverters?  I'm hoping to be able to run it with a 
1500-2000 watt Samlex.  Clue me in please.

Thanks,

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Older XW with new XW accessories

[Kevin Pegg]

Yes works fine no problems. 

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jay
Sent: July-25-16 2:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Older XW with new XW accessories

I've got a customer with an older pair of XW 4048 inverters and cc's.

He would like to use the new web conext box, and probably the battery meter 
with them. 

Anybody know if this is possible?

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power. 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel from battery bank

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi August,

From my knowledge on the XW there is no means to update firmware through the 
SCP, nor is there a means to log into the SCP via web browser. Perhaps you are 
thinking of systems that have the Combox installed which does add that 
functionality. That device allows for very simple and (so far) failure-free 
firmware upgrades. I have recently completed several remote upgrades - ie ship 
the customer the pre-programmed Combox and have them connect it to Xanbus / 
Internet and I execute the updates remotely - takes about 15 minutes for a 
system with numerous devices. The inverter will power down during this upgrade 
so do need to plan for that. (a good time to use the inverter bypass and run 
off generator directly).

The USB dongle is self-powered by Xanbus, and it does have a DC input if you 
were using it to program a standalone device such as the AGS module which does 
not have its own power supply. It can be programmed using XW Config Pro 
(simpler, more foolproof) or XDT which is much more powerful and capable of 
causing havoc if not used correctly.

The programming can be tricky and confusing for this type of set up. Once 
figured out, it does work well in this configuration.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of August Goers
Sent: July-19-16 6:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel 
from battery bank

Dan,

I went through what sounds like a similar situation with a XW+ recently. Ours 
had the Schneider charge controllers, not Outback, so I’m not sure how the two 
would interface in your situation.

You should be able to update firmware through the SCP, call Schneider support 
for help. You basically log into the SCP via a web browser and then download 
the firmware and update the XW.

Schneider tech support was confused internally about what charge/float settings 
to have us setup for a standard grid tied battery backup system. The first 
setting they recommended was called two-stage and long story short, it allowed 
the battery to drain before charging it back up again. We switched the setting 
to three-stage and now the batteries remain topped of and ready for an 
unexpected power outage.

As others have mentioned, it is the normal setup to have the protected (or 
critical) loads fed through the XW. However, during normal on-grid operation 
this is simply an AC pass-through and it shouldn’t discharge the batteries.

There are other settings you’ll need to get right as well. As William said, be 
prepared to talk on the phone for a while with tech support and make it really 
clear to them how you and the owner want the system to function. If it’s like 
most normal grid tied battery backup systems, the owner wants the batteries 
topped off in case of an unexpected power outage (this charging comes from the 
AC side when the grid is up) and then wants to feed all the PV energy to loads 
and back to the grid just like a normal grid tied inverter.

Best,

August
Luminalt

From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Dan Fink
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:12 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel 
from battery bank

It has SCP.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Maverick Brown 
> wrote:
Dan

Does it have System Control Panel (SCP)? If not, it's a must.

It's like having an Outback inverter with no Mate or a big LCD TV with no 
remote.

Thank you,

Maverick


Maverick Brown

Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
SunFlow Systems
Office: 512-919-4493
Cell:512-460-9825

Sent from an iPhone.

On Jul 18, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Dan Fink 
> wrote:
Thanks you for your help. I'm a poor off-grid guy. This should be a learning 
experience thenthe one time I visited the system around 10:AM,, both CCs 
were in Bulk, and no grid blackout the night before.
Methinks I should also borrow a programming dongle from a colleague for this 
one

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Maverick Brown 
> wrote:
Dan

Barring some non-factory-default settings, they are not likely running on 
battery power at night.

When the grid is up, the inverter 

Re: [RE-wrenches] PV output but no power

[Kevin Pegg]

I can also commend Kyocera's excellent customer service re: the KC120 failure 
issue. We had one site that involved a large crane on a barge to access panels 
perched up on tracker on a rock bluff by the ocean - and they covered 100% of 
the costs for that, several thousand, which was clearly above and beyond 
warranty obligations.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: July-02-16 3:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV output but no power

The dates of the defective KC-120-1 (and KC-80-1) are from late 1998 to Dec. 
2002. Any modules in the date period will be replaced at no cost by Kyocera. 
Talk about amazing commitment to the customer, these modules only had a 1 year 
defect warranty. 15 years later and they are still replacing them with 
remanufactured units.

Bill, the typical failure is Voc of about 10 volts. However, the failure can be 
intermittent. For this reason, any modules in the date period should be 
replaced even though they appear to test OK.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Jul 2, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Mac Lewis 
> wrote:

Kyocera had a batch of 120s and 85s that had bad solder connections from a 
certain year. I'm not remembering the year at the moment but we are still 
finding them.
Kyocera has been really amazing about honoring the warranty.

On Jul 2, 2016 2:52 PM, "Jerry Shafer" 
> wrote:
Wrenches
Bypass diods fail and may short
Jerry
On Jul 2, 2016 1:49 PM, "frenergy" 
> wrote:
I just came upon a small off-grid system: 12 volt, 4, Kyo 120's (I,mppt= 7.1A; 
Voc = 21.7 or so), Trace C40 with display, etc.   The combiner has fuses for 
each PV/landing.  At noon, output of the array is 10.5 amps.  Clamping the 4 
pvs I get 5.5 amps on 2 PVs and 0.0 on 2 others.  I disconnect leads from 
terminals in PV j-box of the 'dead' PVs and I get Voc=18.5 (pretty hot day) and 
Isc= 6 amps. However when I reconnect these same PVs to the combiner there is 
no change in combined amps.  Fronts and backs of PVs look good, no burns, 
browns, bubbles in backsheet, under the glass looks fine, its all good.  Inside 
the J-boxes look perfect/new.
Ideas?
Thx,
Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

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Re: [RE-wrenches] grundfos SQFlex

[Kevin Pegg]

We usually use timer relays so that the pump will only run x minutes out of the 
hr, timed so that the well has sufficient time to recharge between pump runs. 

Wouldn't artificially increasing the pressure by a restriction valve cause the 
pump to use more energy? I have never tried that that was suggested in other 
comments. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: June-30-16 5:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos SQFlex

Hi All,

Any trick methods to keep a SQflex running on AC power at a given flow rate 
that is less than full power?

I’ve got a well that is just on 1 gpm, around 150’ lift.

the sqflex 3-2 will do it, but at 3gpm with full watts, an amazing 265 watts.


thx

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Shurflo pump

[Kevin Pegg]

phragm/drive kit and valve kit for a minor rebuild. If water never
reaches the motor, it will last through several of these lifetimes, but
usually folks don't do the service until the pump stops, and often a
failed diaphragm leads to water reaching the motor. But I have seen many
of these pumps go five or more years of intermittent duty needing nothing.

And the pump will run at less than half speed on a 12V battery. Standard
DC brush motor - speed and thus output vary directly with voltage.
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com<mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com> 
<mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*


On 5/31/2016 1:30 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:

Hi Drake,

I'll second Kevin's suggestion that it may be the waterproofing
gland.  I see this as a very weak part of this pumps design and won't
ever use that pump again because of it.  The aquatec SWP-4000 is a
very similar pump.  Pump manufacturers should take responsibility for
the water-proofing into their unit.  Under water splices are super
easy compared to the gland/grease mess routine required with these pumps.

As Kevin suggested, bypass the controller and put good ~ 24VDC down
there (using batteries off of your cordless tools works well for this)
These pumps will pump off 18-20V.

Good luck


On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Kevin Pegg
<kp...@energyalternatives.ca<mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca> 
<mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca>> wrote:

   Hi Drake,

   We have a lot of these pumps in the field, operating without issue
   for many years, though they are generally operating on some sort
   of regular basis. But lots of customers with seasonal situations
   that may have the pump idle for 10 months a year.

   I would suggest applying 12/24VDC battery power directly to the
   pump bypassing controller and see if you get any action, then can
   narrow down if it is a pump issue or a controller issue. Another
   issue is the waterproof gland if not done properly can result in
   connection issues. Have had a few of those.

   Kevin



   *Sent:* May-31-16 8:27 AM from Drake Chamberlin

   Hello Wrenches,

   A couple years back we installed a Shurflo 9325-043-101 water
   pump. It runs array direct. After installation, it worked fine.
   Since then, it  has not been used. The client tried to operate it
   recently,and it didn't work. A red light is showing in the controller.

   How well do these systems hold up if not used?

   I haven't gone out to the site yet, but wanted to get some
   background from you water pumping guys about shelf life of idle
   systems.

   Thanks,

   Drake

   Drake Chamberlin
   /Athens Electric LLC
   OH License 44810
   CO License 3773
   NABCEP Certified Solar PV
   740-448-7328 
   /http://athens-electric.com/








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Re: [RE-wrenches] Shurflo pump

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Drake,

We have a lot of these pumps in the field, operating without issue for many 
years, though they are generally operating on some sort of regular basis. But 
lots of customers with seasonal situations that may have the pump idle for 10 
months a year.

I would suggest applying 12/24VDC battery power directly to the pump bypassing 
controller and see if you get any action, then can narrow down if it is a pump 
issue or a controller issue. Another issue is the waterproof gland if not done 
properly can result in connection issues. Have had a few of those.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: May-31-16 8:27 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shurflo pump

Hello Wrenches,

A couple years back we installed a Shurflo 9325-043-101 water pump. It runs 
array direct.  After installation, it worked fine. Since then, it  has not been 
used. The client tried to operate it recently,and it didn't work. A red light 
is showing in the controller.

How well do these systems hold up if not used?

I haven't gone out to the site yet, but wanted to get some background from you 
water pumping guys about shelf life of idle systems.

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fried Classic150?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Aaron,

A customer of mine had a very similar situation happen couple years ago, except 
with the added fun of frozen batteries, split open and a resulting mess. 
(system was installed by others without a proper battery box / spill 
containment).

This fault was traced back to a failed MX60 controller that was not only 
preventing solar input, but had a small parasitic load on the system that was 
enough to discharge the batteries. Replaced controller, new batteries (with 
spill containment!) and the system has been fine since.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Aaron Mandelkorn
Sent: May-30-16 9:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fried Classic150?


The more I think about this the stranger it seems. All system breakers were 
left on before leaving for the winter. Inverter was also on to power two small 
AC fans. How can a 48 volt battery bank get so discharged to the point of 
almost complete depletion (13.7 volts). The inverter low battery cutout was 
programmed to 48.1v and there are no DC loads.  Isn't the point of lbco to 
protect against this exact situation? What could have brought this bank down so 
low? I am wondering if my client may have reset the lbco and other settings by 
throwing the inverter breaker by accident.

Aaron Mandelkorn
Owner/Solar Specialist
Renewable Energy Outfitters
www.reosolar.com
www.offgriddepot.biz
970-596-3744
719-221-5249
reoso...@gmail.com


On May 30, 2016 8:43 PM, "Dan Fink" 
> wrote:
MPPT does need a minimum battery voltage to wake up and start charging, at 
least 9 volts -- I once arrived at a remote site on a sunny day, the PV input 
breaker had tripped, batteries were under 9v, no charging despite the sunny 
weather until I woke the MPPT up with jumper cables from my truck battery.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn 
> wrote:

Hi all. I returned to a off grid site today after having no winter access. It 
appears as though the classic 150 charge controller has failed. The batteries 
are completely discharged. The classics screen will flash occasionally as well 
as a yellow light on this left front of the controller but wont turn on. Does 
the classic have a minimum voltage requirement needed to turn on? Has anyone 
else experienced this?  I can't figure out what happened to cause this issue.

Thanks

Aaron Mandelkorn
Owner/Solar Specialist
Renewable Energy Outfitters
www.reosolar.com
www.offgriddepot.biz
970-596-3744
719-221-5249
reoso...@gmail.com



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator factory wiring issues

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Daniel,

Appreciate your thoughts on this.

- This wire is contained inside 2" flexible metallic conduit, approx. 3' long 
from the alternator to the external breaker. Some of it is in free air, but 
most is contained within the conduit.
- the main breaker is a 100% rated 175A.
- This is an industrial generator is rated for continual operation at full 
load, and my expectations is all the wiring in that unit is suited to that. 
Will the site actually draw that? It is entirely possible during heavy loads & 
concurrent battery charging that it could well be running at max load for hrs 
at a time.

The plastic bushing is easy to remedy, as is the ground lug.

The wire is where I am not sure what to do. Everything I am hearing tells me 
that the #4 wire is undersized. So there is a dilemma. If I replace the wires 
myself then I believe I have voided the UL certification. But think have made a 
safer engine for my client. At the end of the day, it will be me who the client 
is calling if there is an issue.

Just for kicks I opened up a couple 25 kW gens and factory wiring was either # 
2 or # 4 for this same purpose. Hmm.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Daniel Young
Sent: May-25-16 7:24 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator factory wiring issues

Kevin,

Based on what the engineer said, I think you both make valid points.

On the 4AWG wire:

Type Z wire (150 C insulation) is rated for 190A based on 2014NEC table 
310.15(B)(19). It's rated for 120A when in conduit. So is this wire where you 
might call it in conduit or free air? I imagine the inside of a generator 
enclosure is somewhere in the middle. Also I assume this is Z type or similar 
based on the response stating 150 F (I know he meant C) wiring is used.

Is this on a 175A breaker? If so then it should only pull 140A continuous 
(maybe it's a 100% rated breaker?). And that really would not be great for a 
generator. Usually we only design for a maximum of 80% loading on a generator 
depending on elevation and a few other de-rate factors. In reality do you 
expect more than 120A to be a true "continuous" load on this unit. I don't know 
the answer, just worth thinking about.

Plastic bushings:

I sure would want them in a vibrating machine like a generator, but if UL does 
not force them to, don't expect them to include it. (Capitalism at work). You 
might be able to use an electricians trick where you cut a PVC bushing and slip 
it over the existing wire, then you can thread it in the end of the fitting and 
it is 95% as good as a normally installed bushing I would not do it on a 
new install, but it's a useful trick when you walk up on existing mistakes.

Lug:

You could continuity test it to see if it's a good connection, otherwise that 
strikes me as no good either. Just another cost saving step for the manu at the 
clients expense in my opinion. It'll work fine for now, but not likely in 
5-10yrs as corrosion sets in. I'd just throw a star washer underneath if 
possible, but it sounds like the stud is not long enough.

So there is a little bitta' code and a lotta' opinion.

With Regards,

Daniel Young,
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kevin Pegg
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 6:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Generator factory wiring issues

Wrenches,

Recently, we took delivery of a 40 kW LPG generator made by Gillette.

Inspecting the factory wiring of the unit, I had some concerns which are 
outlined in detail below, with an engineer's response inline. The concerns are 
using #4 wire to pull 175A; no plastic bushings on metallic conduit, and ground 
lugs on top of painted surfaces / and insufficiently torqued.

The engineer response has left me somewhat baffled / frustrated in that I do 
not feel that actual issues have been addressed. I don't really care what UL or 
any other authority tells me - pulling 175A continually for many hrs through a 
#4 wire I think is asking for trouble. And my customer won't really care about 
what the UL ratings say if they are dealing with a melted alternator.

Am I missing something here?

Kevin


RE: SP-410-1-1LO S/N:

I am responding to the concerns written below both in the capacity as designer 
and as U.L. liaison.

We have received this generator, mostly intact. Some freight damage to the 
battery support cross member due to forks not extending the full depth of the 
crate, and are working with the freight company to resolve that.
Sorry for the experienced freight damage.

However, there are some SERIOUS and DANGEROUS issues pertaining to the wiring 
of the alternator! It is obvious that wiring was not done by an electrician.
There are no serio

[RE-wrenches] Generator factory wiring issues

[Kevin Pegg]

Wrenches,

Recently, we took delivery of a 40 kW LPG generator made by Gillette.

Inspecting the factory wiring of the unit, I had some concerns which are 
outlined in detail below, with an engineer's response inline. The concerns are 
using #4 wire to pull 175A; no plastic bushings on metallic conduit, and ground 
lugs on top of painted surfaces / and insufficiently torqued.

The engineer response has left me somewhat baffled / frustrated in that I do 
not feel that actual issues have been addressed. I don't really care what UL or 
any other authority tells me - pulling 175A continually for many hrs through a 
#4 wire I think is asking for trouble. And my customer won't really care about 
what the UL ratings say if they are dealing with a melted alternator.

Am I missing something here?

Kevin


RE: SP-410-1-1LO S/N:

I am responding to the concerns written below both in the capacity as designer 
and as U.L. liaison.

We have received this generator, mostly intact. Some freight damage to the 
battery support cross member due to forks not extending the full depth of the 
crate, and are working with the freight company to resolve that.
Sorry for the experienced freight damage.

However, there are some SERIOUS and DANGEROUS issues pertaining to the wiring 
of the alternator! It is obvious that wiring was not done by an electrician.
There are no serious or dangerous issues on this (built to U.L. recognized 
spec) Gillette Generator as referred to in this writing. And - you are correct- 
this wiring, as 'factory wiring and not 'field' wiring, does not require or use 
the specific qualifications of a licensed electrician. The well 
trained/supervised workers here at Gillette have many years of experience 
building the product and are guided as need by a competent engineering staff.

Specifically:

- Alternator to circuit breaker wiring was done with #4 wire (rated 60A max). 
Per your own load chart inside the breaker enclosure (photo attached), that 
wire should be 4/0 to carry the 175A that this generator is capable of 
producing.
This observation is incorrect. The load wiring sizing schedule affixed to the 
side of the circuit breaker box is for 'field connectivity' at 75 deg. F. We do 
our 'factory wiring ' on a different schedule using load cabling from the 
generator to the top of the circuit breaker rated at 150 deg. F. All of this 
cabling has been done, tested and proven by U.L

- There were no plastic bushings (see photo) where the wires exit the metal 
conduit.
The conduit bushing involved is the correct U.L. approved component for the 
installation of spiral wound metal conduit required to be installed on 'open' 
style generator assemblies. A plastic bushing is NOT required as this is again 
'factory wiring', not 'field wiring.

- What would have happened here is the wire heats up due to gross under sizing, 
melts the insulation, and shorts it out. Resulting in a fire or destruction of 
the brand new alternator, and the associated legal proceedings involving all 
parties and a general nightmare for all of us.
 disagree, on several fronts. Referencing the specification standard U.L. 2200, 
many times- local inspectors blur the line between its dominance for standby 
generator systems and NEC-70 (NEC- code). The former covers 'factory' design 
wiring on stationary standby generators subject to witness testing by a U.L. 
certified representative. The latter applies to 'field wiring'- that is 
anything outside the box including connection conduits, load wiring ( at 75 
deg. F) transfer switches, distribution panes and the like. As resident 
designer for the past twenty-six years, I have myself- written eight 
standards/code rebuttals successfully, both for U.L. and local inspectors. 
Comparing a 4ga, 2ga, 1ga and the like against a different class of wiring such 
as a 4/0 would certainly be cause for alarm. But, clearly here the alarm is 
unwarranted.

- the ground lug on the alternator was not fastened properly (a 
short stud with a nut on it - no way to get proper torque on it - should be a 
bolt), and both this lug and the lug inside the breaker enclosure was fitted on 
top of a painted surface. Every electrician knows you need to scrape off the 
paint so as to allow for proper conductivity.
This lug is not supplied by us. It is supplied as part of the generator 
construction built by Marathon. Marathon generators are certified for U.L. 
1004B- generator assemblies and U.L. 1446 for insulation. This is the equipment 
issued as part of that U.L. certified design. as to their design vs. a 'bolt' 
going into the threads of the hole-  if it was really an issue, it would not 
have passed their U.L. certification testing. Their generator assemblies bear 
their U.L. file certification under R/C (JZGZ2) and listing (JZGZ). In regards 
to the paint removal, the engine and generator are cable grounded to the frame 
of the generator assembly and serrated hardware is used during assembly to 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE reliability / conext combox & portal

[Kevin Pegg]

Hello Wrenches,

Deep appreciation for saving me much time and hassle in beta testing products 
that are released to market prematurely.

Happy to report that the Conext Combox and the Conext Insight portal from 
Schneider is working very well for me it is a robust remote control, monitoring 
datalogging solution. Connectivity on sites is varied from satellite, cell 
modem, and dsl and the system is solid. No issues with it not coming back 
online. Connections drop regularly and all comes back when the connection is 
back.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Gary Rochlin
Sent: May-16-16 3:25 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE reliability

Yes, by manually disconnecting the power but as mentioned not with the auto 
reboot with Rev. 15.


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 3:06 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE reliability

Gary:

Are you able to reliably re-establish connectivity by rebooting the Mate3?

I was informed today that the power to the Mate3 is on the Orange/White pair.  
I have the ability to control a relay remotely that could open a relay on these 
leads.  If this will reestablish communications, then this might be a solution. 
 (The device has a ping function wherein you can program it to ping an IP 
address and perform a prescribed action if the ping fails after a programmable 
number of attempts over a programmable time period.)

Thanks,

William


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Gary Rochlin
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 2:37 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE reliability

We have been having problems with the Mate 3 Optics RE since we installed it at 
the beginning of 2014.  Ours is a battery backup system for a grid tied 
install.  We just got off the phone with Outback this morning after upgrading 
to Rev. 15 two months ago and we are still having the going offline issue.  
Currently we have only been able to keep the monitoring running for about half 
a month and then it needs to be manually rebooted even with the 4-hour reboot 
function activated.  This morning we went out to the site to replace the 
original Mate 3 and tech support told us we would lose all historic data on the 
site - We had to pull off again.  The only saving grace is the solar system is 
still working as planned providing power to the back-up system we just can’t 
see the metrics and this is the last thing we expected from Outback when we 
made the choice to utilize the Radian system instead of the SMA sunny Island.  
From what I can tell Outback released their new system without sufficiently 
beta testing the monitoring and we are all paying for it.

Gary Rochlin


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Mason
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 1:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE reliability


We have reported to Outback that the Mate3 OpticsRE will stop reporting if the 
internet goes down for a while. In the Caribbean, we have some outages and the 
M3 does not handle them well. I think there is an option to reboot the M3 
daily,  I would try that. You can be pretty sure it is not a cable failure.
On May 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "William Miller" 
> wrote:
Friends:

We just installed our first Optics RE systems.  They are both at the same 
location connected to a satellite data system.  In the three weeks these two 
systems have been on line, they have become disconnected several times.  The 
latest time both Mates disconnected but we were able to reconnect one by 
remotely rebooting the router.

I have invested a lot of money, time and reputation on these systems.  I am 
hoping reliability improves.  I am on a long hold with Outback right now in an 
attempt to trouble shoot. I am guessing the resolution will be a two hour drive 
each way to unplug and plug the Cat5 cable in.

Ten minutes later:  I received helpful information from Outback tech support, 
as usual. I will be swapping Mates to see if the trouble moves, etc.  I will 
also be setting the auto reboot function.

Can anyone else suggest how to resolve these issues?

What experience have the remainder of you had with the Optics RE system?  Is it 
reliable for you?

Thanks in advance,

William Miller






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Lena,

You might want to give these folks a call, they may have a unit that could work 
for you.
https://www.gillettegenerators.com/products/1/SPS-120#

We are currently installing a 40 kW propane generator that we had Gillette 
custom build for us for off-grid. Propane powered block heater, minimal phantom 
loads, etc. Won't know until this winter how well it works. They were good to 
work with, and even when the client changed fuel from CNG to LPG moments before 
the crated unit was ready to ship, they were able to make changes.

That all being said, I'd rather work with diesels for off-grid. Engine will 
cost 2x to buy but 1/2 to run.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Lena Wilensky
Sent: April-28-16 9:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, 
or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" 
units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb 
heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for 
warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from 
Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it 
takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during 
the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like we 
can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all pre-configured and 
pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held 
to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days 
- still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from 
Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to 
the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are cold 
climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w]
www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067827e4b0ec57163c45c5/1392932911551/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Lena.jpg?format=300w]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery charging problems

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Chris, 

The problem summary is a bit light on details to be too specific. What, 
precisely, does a generator running "rough" mean? Overheating? Smoking? Breaker 
tripping? 

THE MS4448 has about 3 kW charging capability (63A @ 50 VDC). So the 8.5 kW 
Kohler should be able to handle that easily, depending on what else is running. 
Derating the charge capacity to 1.5 kW not sure what that would accomplish 
other than burning more fuel. 

Sounds like perhaps a generator service is in order. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Daum
Sent: April-21-16 12:41 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery charging problems

 Dear people:  

I have an off-grid customer who has, in his system, a Magnum MS4448 and 16 of 
the Rolls S550 batteries, a Kohler generator (and Trimetric meter and other 
components).  He upgraded his batteries this past March, and since he's 
installed his new batteries, the generator is running 'rough'.  He's at a great 
distance from our shop so a local business helps him from time to time. They 
believe that the "batteries are too  powerful for the 8.5 kw generator" and 
recommended  running it at 50 percent charge control. After 3 hrs run, it seems 
to help but will mean more run time for his generator (and hence, use more 
fuel).  Have you ever heard of anything like this?
Everything ran fund before the battery upgrade.

Thanks for your input!

Best,

Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309
406-777-0830 fax
www.oasismontana.com



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Re: [RE-wrenches] SWRC50

[Kevin Pegg]

Yes, have a few in stock.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jeremy Rodriguez
Sent: January-22-16 9:50 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SWRC50


Hello wrenches,
Does anyone have a new or used SW Series remote control cable ?

Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar
Penrose CO
allso...@live.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Drake, 

I was referring to Generator charging. My understanding is the SI computes the 
battery recharge efficiency, counts amp hrs removed, and returns the amp hrs 
removed + the losses through inefficiency. It also has a function that's name 
escapes me at the moment to have a full complete charge every x cycles, so that 
in a generator cycle charging application one is not wasting fuel for long 
absorption stages for every single charge. 

In our experience same batteries on a SI will last longer than the XW or Magnum 
- presuming it's mainly a cycle charge application.

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: January-16-16 7:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Hi Kevin,

Are you talking about the generator charging algorithm or the solar, AC coupled 
algorithm.

I read a post on this list claiming that the AC coupled charging of the SI was 
just an on / off charge, just on and off like AC coupling with other brands of 
inverters. I've also read that it does taper charge. Do you know the answer to 
this?

Thanks,

Drake

At 02:59 PM 1/15/2016, you wrote:

>We use SMA Sunny Island product for larger industrial projects. More 
>expensive, more difficult to set up, more difficult to program - but 
>once they are up and running solid with no issues and they take better 
>care of batteries through a smarter charging algorithm.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

[Kevin Pegg]

Interesting thread. Our firm wrote off Outback products several years ago for 
two reasons:

1) beyond abysmal tech support - when we have a problem we need to talk to a 
skilled, knowledgeable tech, not some kid reading off a script designed for end 
users; or to sit around for a call back that never happens.
2) ongoing power quality problems when the inverter was in charge mode via 
generator, some more sensitive loads would not operate, causing customers 
complaints. Does this still continue with the radians?

It is nice to hear that the radians install ok, though luck is not something I 
like to count on working in the remote bush. I am more interested in Radian 
installs that were challenging, and was Outback there to expeditiously resolve 
the issues and have a happy customers?

My bias is towards the XW series. Our firm was involved in the design and 
initial product testing of the XW system. It was a bit rocky at the start, but 
has been a relatively stable product. The ability to remotely monitor and 
program a customer's system is a big plus for a lot of our remote clients.

The two big complaints I have with the XW is the useless battery capacity 
meter. I know there is an add on module available now but have not tested that. 
Customers wonder why I put tape over the capacity indicator lights on a brand 
new inverter. And the other is long term stability. We find in remote automated 
unattended hybrid cycle charge sites that the inverter will at least once a 
year screw up, resolved by a power cycle. So we just make it part of 
maintenance routines to reboot the systems when we are onsite for planned 
service.

We use SMA Sunny Island product for larger industrial projects. More expensive, 
more difficult to set up, more difficult to program - but once they are up and 
running solid with no issues and they take better care of batteries through a 
smarter charging algorithm.

Kevin


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of john.blittersd...@gmail.com
Sent: January-14-16 6:36 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Kirk,  I agree with Peter.  I have installed several Radians with good luck.  I 
installed one SI and it worked ok but was more expensive and very time 
consuming to install.  Did one XW and would never do it again.  Never has 
worked right.

John
Central Vermont Solar & Wind




Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2016, at 7:37 PM, Peter Parrish 
> wrote:
My 2 centavos. Stick with them. I prefer their approach over SMA.


-Peter

Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
President, SolarGnosis
1107 Fair Oaks Ave.
Suite 351
South Pasadena, CA 91030
(323) 839-6108
peter...@pobox.com

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kirk Herander
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:39 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Hello,
Can anyone recommend a good battery-based inverter for grid-intertie? I need 
both generator and utility inputs, 120 or 240 output. I have experience with 
the OB Radian series but don’t know what else is out there. Thanks.

Kirk Herander
Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC
Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016
www.vermontsolarnow.com
dba Vermont Solar Engineering
NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
VT RE Incentive Program Partner
802.863.1202




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Surrette L-16 batteries

[Kevin Pegg]

We have been using L16's made by East Penn / Deka for many years, 100's of them 
installed every year, and have yet to have a cell failure attributed to 
manufacturing. Sure there has been occasional melted terminals or dry battery 
due to customer neglect.

What I most like about this brand is they have complete control over the entire 
manufacturing process, from lead smelter forward. Their pricing is stable. The 
product is excellent quality, availability is very good. Not as popular as 
other brands as they don't pour a lot of funds into marketing, and why they are 
not as well known as say, Trojans. We replace many banks of Trojan with East 
Penn and customers have been happy.

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/applications/renewable-energy/

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: December-15-15 8:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surrette L-16 battereis

Hello Wrenches,

Even after my clients have learned to maintain their batteries properly, the 
Trojan L-16 batteries continue to crater, one cell at a time. One client is 
considering spending $12,000 on a nickel - iron battery bank he found on the 
web. This seems like a ridiculously large investment, but he is feeling 
desperate. We urgently need another option from the Trojan L-16s.

How are the Surrette L-16s holding up? Would you recommend them as worth the 
extra investment?

What is the best battery to use in an off grid system these days.

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Batteries

[Kevin Pegg]

Yes. 

Discover is the house brand used by Canadian Energy, formerly Battery Direct. 
"Canada's stored & renewable energy expert" is their tagline despite actually 
having much experience with renewables - they are box movers. There is a 
co-ownership link between Canadian Energy and Discover Energy. 

We have been using their sealed AGM L16 or Golf Cart format batteries for many 
years in some very remote industrial sites and they have performed very well. 
Made in China good quality products. 
https://www.cdnrg.com/products/batteries/sealed-deep-cycle-agm-traction-batteries

As for the tubular cells, this technology is not new - Global Yuasa for example 
has used that technology for a while. We used to sell a lot of Global 
batteries, until the product quality crapped out about 8 years ago. 

My Cdn energy sales rep will be stopping in next week and I can inquire further 
if they have any actual field experience with the tubular cells. 

Kevin


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray Walters
Sent: December-12-15 9:42 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover Batteries

Anyone heard of or used Discover Batteries?
http://discover-energy.com/products/advanced-tubular-batteries/
They have a sealed lead acid battery that they are claiming 1900 cycles to 80% 
DOD.
Sounds amazing, but
They are head quartered in Canada, and I'm having a hard time getting info on 
them, but a Canadian customer is going to use them and knows other folks that 
are having success with them.

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

[Kevin Pegg]

We've taken delivery & installed several 4 or 6 panel top of pole mounts this 
year, and they have all been perfect condition. Our difference is we purchase 
them from a company based in Ontario, Canada that has rights to reproduce the 
product, not entirely sure myself how that works, but the quality has been good 
from our experience. Lead time could be better but seems around 1 month.

http://www.preformed.on.ca/

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray Walters
Sent: October-06-15 1:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

Greetings All;

I have used DP's top of pole racks for 20 years, but I've had my share of 
trouble, too.
First the lead times are horrible, sometimes pushing 2 months.
Second, the cost is approaching the cost of the modules, especially for high 
wind ratings.
Third, they just can't seem to wait till the paint is dry to pack the racks.
Several times I've had to sand and repaint the main strong back, because foam, 
paper, or plastic wrap had stuck to the paint.
This last time was the worst, and I was offered $50 for my troubles and 
embarrassment in front of the customer.
They said I should have shipped it back.  How much sense does that make: round 
trip freight shipping, and 2 more weeks lost?
Here's a page of the manual completely stuck in the paint:
[cid:image001.jpg@01D1014A.4DF2CAE0]

Come on DP, you guys used to stand by your work.


--

R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie in Nicaragua

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Larry,

I know of a Wrench living in Nicaragua doing PV work (not on the list) who I 
could connect you with if you would like.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: September-29-15 12:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie in Nicaragua

Has anyone done a grid tie system in Nicaragua? I would appreciate talking 
about equipment reliability and other difficulity due to utility power 
instability.

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


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Re: [RE-wrenches] clear sealant recommendations

[Kevin Pegg]

At recommendation from a roofer couple years ago, we have been using this 
product:
http://www.sashco.com/products/lexel/
 
Not used long enough to know if it stands the test of time. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of August Goers
Sent: August 10, 2015 2:53 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] clear sealant recommendations



Hi Wrenches,

 

For the most part we are using Chemlink M1 sealant for to seal our rooftop 
penetrations. It hasn’t let us down yet.

 

M1 is a available in several opaque colors and grey is the most common. 
Sometimes we want a good quality clear sealant to put around conduit fittings, 
where our conduit enters buildings, etc. We used Geocell 2300 in the past and I 
don’t have anything bad to say to it but our current supplier doesn’t carry 
Geocell products. More recently we’ve tried Chemlink Clear sealant but I’ve 
already seen signs that it doesn’t hold up well in the elements – it seems to 
peel off the surface it was installed on and turn brown relatively fast.

 

Does anyone have a good multipurpose clear sealant that they like?

 

Best,

 

August

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best replacement for SW4024

[Kevin Pegg]

If was my customer, I'd advise an XW series inverter, as it has dual AC inputs. 
You can have one for grid, one for gen backup. XW's are native 120/240 but you 
can field adapt to 120V if it's easier to wire in with existing wiring. If site 
has any surplus power has capability to synch with grid and back feed. 
 
Could do the same thing with an SW or Magnum with single AC input and external 
transfer but not as elegant and simple. 
 
I'd not recommend the new SW inverter. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Dave
Sent: June 17, 2015 2:16 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Best replacement for SW4024



All in all what are the best options for replacement of a failed Trace SW4024. 
The home was off grid for years and now is operated primarily with the grid 
being used as to charge the batteries when the solar is deficient. There is a 
generator on site to back up the grid also. Utility grid is also used for some 
primary loads in the neighborhood (maple syrup production), but that is a 
separate system from the Trace.

 

The inverter system is a relatively simple 120VAC deal (one inverter).

 

I have not had my hands on the new Schneider inverters. Are they the best swap 
in for this home? 

- Relative time saving ease for the AC and DC wiring is fairly important, but 
not the only consideration.

 

Thanks,

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-888-7194

802-371-8678 cell

 

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[RE-wrenches] Recommendations on diversion load

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Wrenches,

We have been using AEE's HL-75 and HL-100 for many years but understand that 
product has been discontinued and have used the last one in stock. It was an ok 
product but we had additional sheet metal fabricated to space it away from the 
wall further. 

Curious what other wrenches are using for this? In particular needing something 
that can handle up to 1 kW @ 48 VDC nominal. Not really wanting to go back to 
the hacked up dryer elements of days earlier. 

Kevin


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid generators

[Kevin Pegg]

Are you focused on LPG/CNG only? If diesel more names to add Kubota, Isuzu, 
Yanmar, etc. If Gasoline Honda, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of Jay
Sent: June 3, 2015 11:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off grid generators


Hi all

We've talked about small 6-10kw gensets for off grid. 
Kohler
Onan
Generac 

Who am I missing?  
Thanks. 
Jay

Peltz power. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex C-40 Drifting

[Kevin Pegg]

We have lots of C40's out there, though not generally with such small PV input, 
don't recall any issues with drifting. I just installed one and verifying the 
potentiometer settings with DVM was bang on. 
 
For a recommended substitute, consider the Blue Sky units such as:
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/solar_boost_1524ix
 
We use in lots of industrial telemetry sites with similar configs - small PV 
with AGM batts. Solid performing controller with a bonus of some datalogging. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Drake
Sent: May 14, 2015 4:12 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex C-40 Drifting


I have a Xantrex C-40 that won't keep its settings. It is important that it 
does because it is for a maintainer array (80 W) on an AGM battery bank, on an 
AC coupled backup system. Not only could high voltage damage the batteries, but 
when the voltage goes over 30 Volts, the AUX relay opens and the grid tie 
inverter is isolated from the grid.

After numerous sessions of reprogramming, Xantrex tech support sent me a new 
unit. The problem persisted as before. A new temperature sensor helped, but the 
settings still drift. It seems that rebooting the charge controller helps for a 
day or so, but then it drifts again.

The potentiometer settings are way below the calculated setting for 29.4 V, but 
it still peaks in the high 30s. I check the temperature compensated voltages on 
the Outback Mate, and the temp compensated voltage runs high. 

In a related side issue, the AUX relay of the FX inverters is not based on 
temperature compensated voltage, which makes setting AC coupling charge set 
points more problematic. 

Has anyone experienced a C-40 CC that drifts in its settings. What would be a 
good (inexpensive) charge controller to accurately control 80 W of PV?

Thanks,

Drake 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/ 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid deep well pumps

[Kevin Pegg]

We have been supplying and installing the SQFlex series for about a decade. I'd 
estimate something around 80-100 pumps out there, some PV direct filling 
cisterns, some inverter powered directly pressurizing. 
 
We have had a couple failures of the dry run switch, in water sources that were 
high in minerals (sensor gets all covered in scale). Had one of the very first 
pumps installed motor failed a year ago, replaced with new and back it goes 
down the hole. Just had first CU200 failure in queue to diagnose soon. 
 
I consider the SQFlex a very solid product. But the product does not have the 
multi-decade field experience so hard to say how long will last. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of toddc...@finestplanet.com
Sent: April 11, 2015 9:48 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid deep well pumps


i would also like to hear service reports on this too, specifically the 
standard grundfos centrifugal pumps with dc motor (SQF). helical rotors wear 
faster, so of course their life would not be as long.

by comparison, i have a 26 year old, 3/4 hp standard well pump which is still 
fully operational and in irrigation season, pumps ~2500 gallons a day.

 

todd

 

 

 

 



On Saturday, April 11, 2015 7:10am, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org said:



 How long do these stay in the hole before the need to be maintained or
 replaced? Do they last as well as standard AC deep well pumps?
 
 
  I believe that the SQE has the constant-pressure capability, and the
  SQ doesn't. I have never used it in that manner, due to the idle
  load. Either can be used with a pressure switch.br
  br
  Ray, both are soft-start AC. From the manual:
 
 
 
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Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Gen preheat in cold climates

[Kevin Pegg]

We have successfully plumbed in RV-style hot water heaters with tiny tanks in 
them, and set the thermostat to kick in at -20C (or whatever is required). 
Locating the hot water heater on the floor beside the generator it 
thermosiphons. One site has been working like this for 8 years unattended and 
buried in snow all winter long. 

An improvement on this would be tied to SOC or battery voltage so the heater 
only kicks in when there is a probability of requiring generator use. That 
would save some propane. 

Alternative is a similar idea but using Webasto diesel heaters for trucks in a 
similar manner. 

We've not had long-term success with any manner of using electric block 
heaters, uses too much power, or takes too long to warm up. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of Gary Higbee
Sent: April 2, 2015 6:48 PM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.RE-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Gen preheat in cold climates


Wrenches,

I'm curious what strategies you use to preheat a propane gen in cold climates. 
This is a large off-grid design in a sub-zero winter climate and ideal would be 
to turn on a block heater an hour or two in advance, then run the gen cycle. We 
plan to use either a Schneider XW or Outback Radian configuration (still very 
interested in which you'd use and why). We could set up a logic/relay system to 
first send the gen request to the heater for a while and then turn off and 
initiate a gen cycle but that would eliminate the ability for autostart on 
short notice. I've read of heat lamps on a thermostat, just wondering if you 
have seen other solutions.

Thanks!

Gary
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 VDC constant power supply off of 24 volt PV system

[Kevin Pegg]

The website doesn't list all products, but their CV Constant Voltage series 
will do this. Built to order to your needs. Give them a call. 
http://www.solarconverters.com/index.php/products/85-dc-dc-step-up-controllers-cv
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Dana
Sent: March 26, 2015 9:29 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24 VDC constant power supply off of 24 volt PV system



Hey All,

 

I am tasked to supply a frontage sign that uses 24 VDC but the voltage window 
is a low 24  max of 25-26 volts.

Is anyone aware of an efficient DC/DC fixed power supply 24-29 vdc battery 
range and 24-26 vdc output/ Load is 60-70 watts?

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003 - No FAX Line

Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping

[Kevin Pegg]

Wrenches, 
 
A site visit discovered two of the AC input breakers on L2 inverters had 
tripped but the handles didn't move. A forced reset of the breakers resolved 
the issue. System back to proper operations and customer is happy. 
 
Kevin 

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Phil Undercuffler
Sent: March 18, 2015 3:46 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping


There was a certification update the last year or so where UL standards on 
transformers changed.  If you have an X240 that came with a 25, then it was 
from the old math.  The X240s that ship under the new math have 20A breakers.  
Like you, I've installed tons of X240s with 25A breakers, but either one works.

Phil  

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Jerry Shafer  jerrysgarag...@gmail.com wrote:


Phil
Please confirm i have built lots of ps2 and 4 seams to always have 25's on the 
x240 not 20's
Jerry

On Mar 18, 2015 10:04 AM, Phil Undercuffler  solarp...@gmail.com wrote:


The PSX-240 (independent unit in enclosure) has active cooling, so it has a 
higher capacity and therefore the 25A breaker.  The X-240 (bare xformer) should 
have a 20A.  The good news is, in OutBack Stacking the xformer is balancing the 
phases, which since there are inverters on both phases means that it typically 
is only processing 1-2kW or so, usually much less.  

Phil

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Allan Sindelar  al...@sindelarsolar.com 
wrote:


Kevin and Matt,
Good advice from Matt. Just one detail: On the Outback PSX-240 (the independent 
unit with enclosure) the output breakers are 25A, not 20A. I suspect that the 2P
breaker for the X-240 would be the same. As the unit often operates at close to 
its capacity, this could make a difference.
Allan



Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 tel:505%20780-2738  cell



 

On 3/17/2015 2:56 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:


Thanks, Matt for the details here. 
 
I will be heading out to the site in the next little while and will report back 
what was found. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Matt James
Sent: March 17, 2015 12:22 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping



Kevin,

 

Not sure what happened on the dropped communication, but I had responded to you 
last week with some possible answers and things to check.  I think I made the 
mistake of replying directly to your email address and not sending to the 
entire Re-Wrenches forum, sorry for that as I know this is information that 
could be helpful to others as well.

 

In any case, Tump is right -- on an existing system where everything has been 
working fine for some time but now isn’t, the key is to isolate, isolate, 
isolate.  Turn off all AC input, output and transformer breakers, then wake up 
each inverter by increasing the Power Save Level Master Adjust one step at a 
time.  Confirm proper AC voltage line to neutral at the inverter’s AC output 
terminals  – all breakers are still open.  

 

Close the breaker to the X240 balancing transformer, then close the AC output 
breakers of one inverter at a time, starting with the Master.  Confirm that all 
inverters are on and have proper voltage and phasing by verifying proper AC 
voltage line to neutral, line to line as measured at the AC output terminals 
and to the output bus bars  – all inverters should show 120 L-N, and any 
inverters programmed as L1 Slaves should show 0v L-L to the Master and 240v L-L 
to L2 Slaves.  L2 slaves 

 

This establishes a baseline to ensure that all the power electronics, 
magnetics, wiring and programming are working properly.  

 

Next, start the generator and close all the input breakers.  Measure AC voltage 
at the inverter’s input terminals, confirm that each is seeing the proper 
voltage and phasing.  Verify that the inverters sync to and connect to the 
generator, and begin to charge.  Measure the AC current on both phases of the 
generator, and verify that they are balanced.  

 

Some potential issues are:

1.   Bad X240 breaker.  Take a spare, 20A 2 pole DIN.

2.   Transformer insulation damaged, typically by overheating.  Rather 
unlikely, but possible.

3.   Failed or mis-wired or mis-programmed inverter, likely on L2.  Due to 
the distance to the site, consider taking a replacement board set with you.  
Alternately, the system can operate on both legs with the other inverters, even 
if it’s an uneven number, through OutBack Stacking until you can schedule 
another trip.

4.   Heavily imbalanced load or generator.

 

If the charging currents on the generator are imbalanced, one possible solution 
is to disconnect the neutral

Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging Multiple Battery Banks

[Kevin Pegg]

Interesting! I was head-scratching as to how to do an identical task. I'd think 
a contactor on the HV PV output side suitably rated for voltage/current 
triggered by the aux output once the Classic goes into float would do the 
trick. I recall the Classic has that feature but never used it yet. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Jeremy Rodriguez
Sent: March 24, 2015 5:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging Multiple Battery Banks


The thought was to charge the batteries for a new building utilizing an SW4024 
with new classic controller and new L A batteries, and once those batteries are 
charged send the PV to the house system which is the 48v setup with dual 
outback inverters and dual SB3048 CCs.  Lead acid batteries as well. 3 years 
old 
I've never had this come up in 16 years!


Jeremy Rodriguez  
All Solar, Inc.  
1463 M

Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Mar 24, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Ray Walters  r...@solarray.com wrote:



What's the reasoning behind two different battery banks at different voltages? 
What is the other equipment involved: batteries type, age, inverters, etc.?

R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760
On 3/24/2015 5:07 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:


It would be 2kw of PV

Jeremy
All Solar
Penrose, CO


  _  

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:17:20 -1000
From: jerrysgarag...@gmail.com
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging Multiple Battery Banks


How big of a system are you looking at as some of the smaller charge 
controllers are auto sensing

Jerry


On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez  allsolarjer...@msn.com 
wrote:


Wrenches,
I have a client that wants to charge a 24v battery bank and a 48v bank with the 
same array. Different charge controllers, with some type of relay is what I was 
thinking, and using the controller's aux. 12v output for the relay control. 
The primary battery to be charged would be the 24v bank, then once it is fully 
charged, divert the pv to the secondary controller at the 48v bank.

Any comments or recommendations on this would be helpful.

Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar Inc. 
Penrose, CO


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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Ray, 

Lost a lot of money, that's how. We did not charge customers for the 
replacement, our focus was on making customers happy. Some clients more 
understanding than others. Over time were able to resell the used outback units 
to sites that were more summer-only recreational cottages that didn't require 
significant generator input, or don't have the same kind of sensitive loads and 
recover some money, but the labour  travel costs were losses. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: March 20, 2015 10:05 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


Hi Kevin;

How do you deal with the cost of the inverter replacement?  Do you 
resell the old ones?  Luckily the RE Wrenches list has helped us dodge 
that bullet over the years.

Thanks Everybody,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 3/20/2015 11:43 AM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 Hi Ray,

 Our work is almost exclusively off-grid so wasn't able to test if same result 
 charging from grid. These sites also had previously installed generators of 
 different types, all tested out fine, commonly 12 kW or better capacity. 
 Can't think of a single issue where Magnums exhibited any of the same 
 problems. Replaced inverters, problem solved and then moved onto other tasks.

 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
 Behalf Of Ray Walters
 Sent: March 20, 2015 9:15 AM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


 Hi Kevin;

 That makes sense, if the charger is enough of a reactive load, it could
 introduce noise into the entire system.  Just something like a hair
 dryer can put noise into the entire system. Did it improve with large
 enough generators, or not?  Was this a problem when charging from the
 grid?  Did you have any issues with controls not working on the Magnums?

 Thanks,

 R.Ray Walters
 CTO, Solarray, Inc
 Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
 Licensed Master Electrician
 Solar Design Engineer
 303 505-8760

 On 3/19/2015 3:40 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 Hi Ray,

 This is a bit of old news for us, goes back probably 8 years ago or so, so 
 this is from memory and have not been able to locate the testing reports we 
 created.

 We conducted extensive testing of the issue, were able to easily replicate 
 it, didn't matter what generator being used. There was some harmonics and 
 noise on the line that was specifically caused by the Outback charging 
 circuit.

 We presented this information to Outback, and the response was something of 
 the line of ya we know but don't think it's a problem and so won't be any 
 effort to resolve. Where we work in Canada and the north the winter sun is 
 quite scarce and such being reliant on generators was a reality. And the 
 most problematic loads were furnace boiler control systems that of course 
 the clients needed to run.

 At the time we moved to Magnum units primarily, and then to Xantrex XW once 
 available. The issues were immediately and permanently solved by replacing 
 the inverter with another brand.

 It certainly jaded my opinion of Outback as we had to replace several 
 systems at our cost.

 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
 Behalf Of Ray Walters
 Sent: March 19, 2015 9:05 AM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


 Hi Kevin;

 I have both a comment and a question:

 Comment) I thought that while charging, the AC loads were simply powered
 directly by the generator, and the inverters were operating strictly as
 chargers.  My experience is that it is almost always an issue of poor
 waveform regulation with the generator.  This is easy to check with a
 Fluke 87 or 89.  Set to quick peak capture, and see what the peak of the
 waveform is.  A clean sine wave of 120 vac will have a peak that is 1.41
 times the RMS, or 169 vac.  I've seen them as low as 135,  or
 alternatively have weird spikes into the 200s.
 Of course a scope reading is better, but not everyone can afford those.

 Question) Which inverter did you switch to that cured the problem?

 Thanks,

 R.Ray Walters
 CTO, Solarray, Inc
 Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
 Licensed Master Electrician
 Solar Design Engineer
 303 505-8760

 On 3/18/2015 9:20 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 This sounds like the exact same issue with the FX and VFX inverters. Meter 
 the power quality while under charge - nasty. We found a lot of 
 computerized control systems on furnaces and boilers would either reject 
 the power and not power up, or would behave erratically, some would be ok 
 if you powered it up before generator on, some not. They were fine on 
 inverter, fine on generator, but under charge bad.

 Ended up swapping out a lot of inverters since customers were not so keen

Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Ray, 

Our work is almost exclusively off-grid so wasn't able to test if same result 
charging from grid. These sites also had previously installed generators of 
different types, all tested out fine, commonly 12 kW or better capacity. Can't 
think of a single issue where Magnums exhibited any of the same problems. 
Replaced inverters, problem solved and then moved onto other tasks. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: March 20, 2015 9:15 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


Hi Kevin;

That makes sense, if the charger is enough of a reactive load, it could 
introduce noise into the entire system.  Just something like a hair 
dryer can put noise into the entire system. Did it improve with large 
enough generators, or not?  Was this a problem when charging from the 
grid?  Did you have any issues with controls not working on the Magnums?

Thanks,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 3/19/2015 3:40 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 Hi Ray,

 This is a bit of old news for us, goes back probably 8 years ago or so, so 
 this is from memory and have not been able to locate the testing reports we 
 created.

 We conducted extensive testing of the issue, were able to easily replicate 
 it, didn't matter what generator being used. There was some harmonics and 
 noise on the line that was specifically caused by the Outback charging 
 circuit.

 We presented this information to Outback, and the response was something of 
 the line of ya we know but don't think it's a problem and so won't be any 
 effort to resolve. Where we work in Canada and the north the winter sun is 
 quite scarce and such being reliant on generators was a reality. And the most 
 problematic loads were furnace boiler control systems that of course the 
 clients needed to run.

 At the time we moved to Magnum units primarily, and then to Xantrex XW once 
 available. The issues were immediately and permanently solved by replacing 
 the inverter with another brand.

 It certainly jaded my opinion of Outback as we had to replace several systems 
 at our cost.

 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
 Behalf Of Ray Walters
 Sent: March 19, 2015 9:05 AM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


 Hi Kevin;

 I have both a comment and a question:

 Comment) I thought that while charging, the AC loads were simply powered
 directly by the generator, and the inverters were operating strictly as
 chargers.  My experience is that it is almost always an issue of poor
 waveform regulation with the generator.  This is easy to check with a
 Fluke 87 or 89.  Set to quick peak capture, and see what the peak of the
 waveform is.  A clean sine wave of 120 vac will have a peak that is 1.41
 times the RMS, or 169 vac.  I've seen them as low as 135,  or
 alternatively have weird spikes into the 200s.
 Of course a scope reading is better, but not everyone can afford those.

 Question) Which inverter did you switch to that cured the problem?

 Thanks,

 R.Ray Walters
 CTO, Solarray, Inc
 Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
 Licensed Master Electrician
 Solar Design Engineer
 303 505-8760

 On 3/18/2015 9:20 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 This sounds like the exact same issue with the FX and VFX inverters. Meter 
 the power quality while under charge - nasty. We found a lot of computerized 
 control systems on furnaces and boilers would either reject the power and 
 not power up, or would behave erratically, some would be ok if you powered 
 it up before generator on, some not. They were fine on inverter, fine on 
 generator, but under charge bad.

 Ended up swapping out a lot of inverters since customers were not so keen on 
 certain loads not operating properly when under generator charge.

 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
 Behalf Of jay peltz
 Sent: March 18, 2015 5:32 PM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


 HI All,

 My question is. are there any known issues with the Radian interfacing with 
 a generator?

 I have a customer with flickering lights.
 The lights are LED ( some dimmer/some on/off)

 The generator supplier says that there are lots of problems with the Radian.
 I've not heard this and don't believe it.

 symptoms:
 radian alone:  no flicker
 generator alone: no flicker
 generator/charging flicker.
 different generator: no flicker.

 So there is no doubt its the generator.

 I'm trying to get more information to go back to the customer.

 Thanks

 jay

 peltz power





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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Ray, 

This is a bit of old news for us, goes back probably 8 years ago or so, so this 
is from memory and have not been able to locate the testing reports we created. 

We conducted extensive testing of the issue, were able to easily replicate it, 
didn't matter what generator being used. There was some harmonics and noise 
on the line that was specifically caused by the Outback charging circuit.

We presented this information to Outback, and the response was something of the 
line of ya we know but don't think it's a problem and so won't be any effort 
to resolve. Where we work in Canada and the north the winter sun is quite 
scarce and such being reliant on generators was a reality. And the most 
problematic loads were furnace boiler control systems that of course the 
clients needed to run. 

At the time we moved to Magnum units primarily, and then to Xantrex XW once 
available. The issues were immediately and permanently solved by replacing the 
inverter with another brand. 

It certainly jaded my opinion of Outback as we had to replace several systems 
at our cost.

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: March 19, 2015 9:05 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


Hi Kevin;

I have both a comment and a question:

Comment) I thought that while charging, the AC loads were simply powered 
directly by the generator, and the inverters were operating strictly as 
chargers.  My experience is that it is almost always an issue of poor 
waveform regulation with the generator.  This is easy to check with a 
Fluke 87 or 89.  Set to quick peak capture, and see what the peak of the 
waveform is.  A clean sine wave of 120 vac will have a peak that is 1.41 
times the RMS, or 169 vac.  I've seen them as low as 135,  or 
alternatively have weird spikes into the 200s.
Of course a scope reading is better, but not everyone can afford those.

Question) Which inverter did you switch to that cured the problem?

Thanks,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 3/18/2015 9:20 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
 This sounds like the exact same issue with the FX and VFX inverters. Meter 
 the power quality while under charge - nasty. We found a lot of computerized 
 control systems on furnaces and boilers would either reject the power and not 
 power up, or would behave erratically, some would be ok if you powered it up 
 before generator on, some not. They were fine on inverter, fine on generator, 
 but under charge bad.

 Ended up swapping out a lot of inverters since customers were not so keen on 
 certain loads not operating properly when under generator charge.

 Kevin

 -Original Message-
 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
 Behalf Of jay peltz
 Sent: March 18, 2015 5:32 PM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


 HI All,

 My question is. are there any known issues with the Radian interfacing with a 
 generator?

 I have a customer with flickering lights.
 The lights are LED ( some dimmer/some on/off)

 The generator supplier says that there are lots of problems with the Radian.
 I've not heard this and don't believe it.

 symptoms:
 radian alone:  no flicker
 generator alone: no flicker
 generator/charging flicker.
 different generator: no flicker.

 So there is no doubt its the generator.

 I'm trying to get more information to go back to the customer.

 Thanks

 jay

 peltz power





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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question

[Kevin Pegg]

This sounds like the exact same issue with the FX and VFX inverters. Meter the 
power quality while under charge - nasty. We found a lot of computerized 
control systems on furnaces and boilers would either reject the power and not 
power up, or would behave erratically, some would be ok if you powered it up 
before generator on, some not. They were fine on inverter, fine on generator, 
but under charge bad. 

Ended up swapping out a lot of inverters since customers were not so keen on 
certain loads not operating properly when under generator charge. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On
Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: March 18, 2015 5:32 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] outback radian question


HI All,

My question is. are there any known issues with the Radian interfacing with a 
generator?

I have a customer with flickering lights.
The lights are LED ( some dimmer/some on/off)

The generator supplier says that there are lots of problems with the Radian.
I've not heard this and don't believe it.

symptoms:
radian alone:  no flicker
generator alone: no flicker
generator/charging flicker.
different generator: no flicker.

So there is no doubt its the generator.

I'm trying to get more information to go back to the customer.

Thanks

jay

peltz power





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping

[Kevin Pegg]

Thanks, Matt for the details here. 
 
I will be heading out to the site in the next little while and will report back 
what was found. 
 
Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of Matt James
Sent: March 17, 2015 12:22 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping



Kevin,

 

Not sure what happened on the dropped communication, but I had responded to you 
last week with some possible answers and things to check.  I think I made the 
mistake of replying directly to your email address and not sending to the 
entire Re-Wrenches forum, sorry for that as I know this is information that 
could be helpful to others as well.

 

In any case, Tump is right -- on an existing system where everything has been 
working fine for some time but now isn't, the key is to isolate, isolate, 
isolate.  Turn off all AC input, output and transformer breakers, then wake up 
each inverter by increasing the Power Save Level Master Adjust one step at a 
time.  Confirm proper AC voltage line to neutral at the inverter's AC output 
terminals  - all breakers are still open.  

 

Close the breaker to the X240 balancing transformer, then close the AC output 
breakers of one inverter at a time, starting with the Master.  Confirm that all 
inverters are on and have proper voltage and phasing by verifying proper AC 
voltage line to neutral, line to line as measured at the AC output terminals 
and to the output bus bars  - all inverters should show 120 L-N, and any 
inverters programmed as L1 Slaves should show 0v L-L to the Master and 240v L-L 
to L2 Slaves.  L2 slaves 

 

This establishes a baseline to ensure that all the power electronics, 
magnetics, wiring and programming are working properly.  

 

Next, start the generator and close all the input breakers.  Measure AC voltage 
at the inverter's input terminals, confirm that each is seeing the proper 
voltage and phasing.  Verify that the inverters sync to and connect to the 
generator, and begin to charge.  Measure the AC current on both phases of the 
generator, and verify that they are balanced.  

 

Some potential issues are:

1.   Bad X240 breaker.  Take a spare, 20A 2 pole DIN.

2.   Transformer insulation damaged, typically by overheating.  Rather 
unlikely, but possible.

3.   Failed or mis-wired or mis-programmed inverter, likely on L2.  Due to 
the distance to the site, consider taking a replacement board set with you.  
Alternately, the system can operate on both legs with the other inverters, even 
if it's an uneven number, through OutBack Stacking until you can schedule 
another trip.

4.   Heavily imbalanced load or generator.

 

If the charging currents on the generator are imbalanced, one possible solution 
is to disconnect the neutral from the generator at the power system end.  This 
presents a pure 240v load to the genset, which will force the currents to be 
balanced on both phases.  

 

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any problems or questions.

 

Best Regards,

 

Matt James

Applications Engineering Manager

OutBack Power Technologies Inc.

Direct:  (360) 618-4364

Cell:  (360) 618-2869

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kevin Pegg
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping

 

Thanks for everyone's advise on this one. I've done as much as I can working 
with the caretaker remotely and will need to attend myself with some test gear 
to fully diagnose. This site is remote (10h of driving then 1h boat ride). I 
generally make a point of avoiding Outback product so feel much better informed 
to diagnose when onsite - later in the week. Thanks. 

 

Curious what is going on with Outback's tech support. I waited on hold for a 
bit on Wednesday, then left a message for callback and am still waiting for 
that callback 3 business days later. 

 

My client is most upset that Outback can't even bother to return a tech call. 
His instructions to me are if we find multiple failed components in the system 
and not simple fixes to remove the gear and replace with anything as long as 
it's not Outback. 

 

Will advise the list what was discovered once onsite. 

 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf 
Of frenergy
Sent: March 16, 2015 6:38 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping

Kevin,

 

Not to add any confusion but I recently had to re-program the slave in 
a 2 VFX with Xfrmr system as it was doing the same thing...the 2 pole xfrmr 
breaker was tripping when a moderate load was on.  Granted this was not 
happening during charging though.  I think I changed the slave from OB slave L1 
to OB slave L2 and all was good.  It doesn't seem likely the programming in 
your