subject:"Maya strengts \(anyone\?\)"

Skinning, my god fix the skinning ! it's not reasonable to have to manually
tick which bones you want or don't want to work on.


On 23 May 2014 19:23, Mario Reitbauer  wrote:

> Luc you are still at AD right ?
>
> Would love to have an honest answer on that one. Is there any chance to
> get workflow improvement features actually beeing added into maya in a
> reasonable time if we report them ?
> Simple stuff:
> Flip muscle capsule (if you create your capsules out of a skinned mesh you
> gonna need that, no idea why it's not there)
> child- and constraint compensation
> viewport selection update (this is were maya rly feels clunky, when it
> comes to just selecting objects or components, if ur interested i would
> love to tell you why, but i guess you know)
> working with sets (remove object from set is only possible through diving
> into that hierachy in a graph ?)
>
> This and more are the things which drive me nuts. It's just the small
> things, not even features.
>
> So as long as artists are forced to write scripts for every single task
> (visibility toggle on a hotkey anyone ? who uses 2 different hotkeys for
> hiding and showing objects ?) I can't think of too many things which would
> make maya beeing faster in actual production.
>
>
> 2014-05-23 19:49 GMT+02:00 Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>:
>
> is EmFluids also a fluids solver or more of a fire and smoke tool ?
>>
>>
>> On 23 May 2014 18:29, Matt Lind  wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't softimage have Lagoa fluids?
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
>>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:54 AM
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
>>>
>>> Fluid was missing from that list IMHO.. and it's not something we have
>>> in Softimage.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Leendert A. Hartog 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare
>>> with.
>>> > ;)
>>> > My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people
>>> > understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question
>>> > was where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.
>>> > Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
>>> > But several posts have answered my question fully...
>>> >
>>> > Greetz
>>> > Leendert
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Mario Reitbauer

Luc you are still at AD right ?

Would love to have an honest answer on that one. Is there any chance to get
workflow improvement features actually beeing added into maya in a
reasonable time if we report them ?
Simple stuff:
Flip muscle capsule (if you create your capsules out of a skinned mesh you
gonna need that, no idea why it's not there)
child- and constraint compensation
viewport selection update (this is were maya rly feels clunky, when it
comes to just selecting objects or components, if ur interested i would
love to tell you why, but i guess you know)
working with sets (remove object from set is only possible through diving
into that hierachy in a graph ?)

This and more are the things which drive me nuts. It's just the small
things, not even features.

So as long as artists are forced to write scripts for every single task
(visibility toggle on a hotkey anyone ? who uses 2 different hotkeys for
hiding and showing objects ?) I can't think of too many things which would
make maya beeing faster in actual production.

2014-05-23 19:49 GMT+02:00 Sebastien Sterling 
:

> is EmFluids also a fluids solver or more of a fire and smoke tool ?
>
>
> On 23 May 2014 18:29, Matt Lind  wrote:
>
>> Doesn't softimage have Lagoa fluids?
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:54 AM
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
>>
>> Fluid was missing from that list IMHO.. and it's not something we have in
>> Softimage.
>>
>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Leendert A. Hartog 
>> wrote:
>> > Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare
>> with.
>> > ;)
>> > My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people
>> > understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question
>> > was where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.
>> > Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
>> > But several posts have answered my question fully...
>> >
>> > Greetz
>> > Leendert
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

is EmFluids also a fluids solver or more of a fire and smoke tool ?


On 23 May 2014 18:29, Matt Lind  wrote:

> Doesn't softimage have Lagoa fluids?
>
>
> Matt
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:54 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
>
> Fluid was missing from that list IMHO.. and it's not something we have in
> Softimage.
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Leendert A. Hartog 
> wrote:
> > Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare
> with.
> > ;)
> > My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people
> > understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question
> > was where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.
> > Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
> > But several posts have answered my question fully...
> >
> > Greetz
> > Leendert
>
>

RE: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Matt Lind

Doesn't softimage have Lagoa fluids?


Matt


-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:54 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Fluid was missing from that list IMHO.. and it's not something we have in 
Softimage.

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:
> Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare with.
> ;)
> My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people 
> understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question 
> was where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.
> Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
> But several posts have answered my question fully...
>
> Greetz
> Leendert

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Luc-Eric Rousseau

Fluid was missing from that list IMHO.. and it's not something we have
in Softimage.

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:
> Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare with.
> ;)
> My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people
> understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question was
> where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.
> Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
> But several posts have answered my question fully...
>
> Greetz
> Leendert

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Leendert A. Hartog

Oh, I understand fully you can't compare without something to compare 
with. ;)
My interpretation of many of the posts in this thread is that people 
understandably still primarily compare it to Softimage. My question was 
where its place was in this "post-Softimage" world.

Which is a tough (maybe even a silly?) question, I understand that.
But several posts have answered my question fully...

Greetz
Leendert

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

"I just wanted to find out what Maya's strengths were in this new
post-Softimage world."


You must understand that you can't very well depict an apps strengths
without comparing it to its peers, past and present.

Bottom line is that maya out of the box doesn't have any massive strengths
that would make it a nobrainner decision to use.

It's biggest asset is that it is the industry standard.

And as previously mentioned, where other apps are way better in some areas,
it at least gives you access to all areas in production.

As an in house artist with TD's and Dev's on hand, it is functional

As an independent user, it is an uphill struggle.

Only time will tell if this trend is to be broken.


On 23 May 2014 14:31, Andi Farhall  wrote:

>
> thanks for that, when I can no longer pay my rent because of this can I
> camp in your massive garden?
> ...
> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>
> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take
> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>
> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
> error.
> ----
>
>
> --
> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:41:47 +0100
>
> Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
> From: winder.t...@googlemail.com
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
>
> Well from a companies point of view.
>
> There are MANY MANY times more high quality artists to employ,
> which means no problems finding people, and the artists probably drive
> down their own prices.
> Ive worked at xsi places where they just couldn't find a freelancer at all
> - because any good ones were permanent at other shops.
>
> At the moment this is never a a problem with Maya
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>
> Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>:
>
> I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
> course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
> even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.
>
>
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>
> If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
> responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
> of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
> already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
>  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
> problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
> restart Maya to receive the new goodies.
>
> For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all hats
> and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.
>
> Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a
> medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself
> being more productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD
> than in Maya alone.
>
> If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
>  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
> really painful.
>
> -Lu
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lol Lu
>
> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>
> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz
> be with him.
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>
> +6 Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>
> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant
> to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had
> something like ICE or close to

RE: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Andi Farhall


thanks for that, when I can no longer pay my rent because of this can I camp in 
your massive garden?
...
http://www.hackneyeffects.com/https://vimeo.com/user4174293http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
http://spylon.tumblr.com/
This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended 
solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or 
opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.If you are not the intended recipient of 
this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy 
or show it to anyone.Please contact the sender if you believe you have received 
this email in error.

Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:41:47 +0100
Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
From: winder.t...@googlemail.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Well from a companies point of view.

There are MANY MANY times more high quality artists to employ,
which means no problems finding people, and the artists probably drive down 
their own prices.

Ive worked at xsi places where they just couldn't find a freelancer at all - 
because any good ones were permanent at other shops. 

At the moment this is never a a problem with Maya 



On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...
---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.





2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling :


I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of course, 
i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places even medium 
businesses will not have that kind of work force.







On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:



If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD 
responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority of 
the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools already 
in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.  I'm 
surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a problem, 
they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to restart Maya 
to receive the new goodies.




For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all hats and 
FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.  
Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a medium 
to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself being more 
productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD than in Maya 
alone.  




If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."  The 
answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is really 
painful.  




-Lu   

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:




Lol Lu

It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)

I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a feature 
rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz be with 
him. 







On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:





+6 Lu

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:







I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant to 
be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had 
something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool thing 
you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to applications 
that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.








Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and 
animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what animation 
could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.  However, XSI 
never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of animation 
performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the cost of shoddy 
user experience.  








Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot of the 
early technology that went into the Maya side were far better implemented than 
in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity, and it was attractive 
to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had more functionality in Maya 
before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had more functionality in Maya than 
the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still used in both conventional and 
unconventional ways because every other out of box cloth solver just isn't 
good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and it's second only to something like 
Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a strength to leverage.  








Also,

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Leendert A. Hartog


Oh, and before everyone misunderstands my previous post:
it was meant as a slightly "tongue in cheek" remark.

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Leendert A. Hartog

As a conclusion to my original question: to most it seems the wounds are 
still a bit too fresh. ;)

But then I didn't want to compare Maya to Softimage,
I just wanted to find out what Maya's strengths were in this new 
post-Softimage world.


Greetz
Leendert

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Mirko Jankovic

yep, makes sense ha? :)


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> so dumping all the xsi artist into a maya majority industry insures 1)
> that the market is even more saturated 2) that having to start from scratch
> X'xsi artists are at a crushing disadvantage 3) due to saturation we all
> get payed like cashiers at a supermarket ?
>
>
> On 23 May 2014 12:41, Toby Winder  wrote:
>
>> Well from a companies point of view.
>>
>> There are MANY MANY times more high quality artists to employ,
>> which means no problems finding people, and the artists probably drive
>> down their own prices.
>> Ive worked at xsi places where they just couldn't find a freelancer at
>> all - because any good ones were permanent at other shops.
>>
>> At the moment this is never a a problem with Maya
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
 course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
 even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.




 On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:

> If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all
> TD responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast
> majority of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop 
> with
> tools already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said
> tools.  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they
> hit a problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking
> them to restart Maya to receive the new goodies.
>
> For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all
> hats and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.
>
> Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with
> a medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find
> myself being more productive over time in those application as a
> generalist/TD than in Maya alone.
>
> If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
>  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
> really painful.
>
> -Lu
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lol Lu
>>
>> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>>
>> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
>> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric 
>> enginz
>> be with him.
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>>
>>> +6 Lu
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>>>
 I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it
 wasn't meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in 
 consideration, we
 would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are 
 still
 some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
 compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with 
 by
 artists.

 Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build
 stuff and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of
 what animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" 
 features.
  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
 animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at 
 the
 cost of shoddy user experience.

 Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And
 a lot of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far 
 better
 implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed 
 ubiquity,
 and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave 
 had
 more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex 
 had
 more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is 
 still
 used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other 
 out
 of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily 
 and
 it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
 strength to leverage.

 Also, Maya + Window = new tec

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

so dumping all the xsi artist into a maya majority industry insures 1) that
the market is even more saturated 2) that having to start from scratch
X'xsi artists are at a crushing disadvantage 3) due to saturation we all
get payed like cashiers at a supermarket ?


On 23 May 2014 12:41, Toby Winder  wrote:

> Well from a companies point of view.
>
> There are MANY MANY times more high quality artists to employ,
> which means no problems finding people, and the artists probably drive
> down their own prices.
> Ive worked at xsi places where they just couldn't find a freelancer at all
> - because any good ones were permanent at other shops.
>
> At the moment this is never a a problem with Maya
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>
>> Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...
>>
>> ---
>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>
>>
>> 2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
>>> course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
>>> even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>>>
 If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
 responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
 of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
 already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
 problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
 restart Maya to receive the new goodies.

 For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all
 hats and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.

 Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with
 a medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find
 myself being more productive over time in those application as a
 generalist/TD than in Maya alone.

 If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
 really painful.

 -Lu



 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
 sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lol Lu
>
> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>
> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric 
> enginz
> be with him.
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>
>> +6 Lu
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>>
>>> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
>>> meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
>>> would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are 
>>> still
>>> some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
>>> compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with 
>>> by
>>> artists.
>>>
>>> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build
>>> stuff and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of
>>> what animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" 
>>> features.
>>>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
>>> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at 
>>> the
>>> cost of shoddy user experience.
>>>
>>> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a
>>> lot of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
>>> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed 
>>> ubiquity,
>>> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave 
>>> had
>>> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex 
>>> had
>>> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is 
>>> still
>>> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other 
>>> out
>>> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily 
>>> and
>>> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
>>> strength to leverage.
>>>
>>> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet
>>> Muscles, and now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually 
>>> begins
>>> it's early stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these
>>> fledgling tools would be production worthy, but I'm the first t

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-23 Thread Toby Winder

Well from a companies point of view.

There are MANY MANY times more high quality artists to employ,
which means no problems finding people, and the artists probably drive down
their own prices.
Ive worked at xsi places where they just couldn't find a freelancer at all
- because any good ones were permanent at other shops.

At the moment this is never a a problem with Maya


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>:
>
> I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
>> course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
>> even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>>
>>> If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
>>> responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
>>> of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
>>> already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
>>>  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
>>> problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
>>> restart Maya to receive the new goodies.
>>>
>>> For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all
>>> hats and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.
>>>
>>> Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a
>>> medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself
>>> being more productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD
>>> than in Maya alone.
>>>
>>> If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
>>>  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
>>> really painful.
>>>
>>> -Lu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Lol Lu

 It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)

 I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
 feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz
 be with him.


 On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:

> +6 Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>
>> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
>> meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
>> would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still
>> some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
>> compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by
>> artists.
>>
>> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build
>> stuff and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of
>> what animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" 
>> features.
>>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
>> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at 
>> the
>> cost of shoddy user experience.
>>
>> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a
>> lot of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
>> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
>> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
>> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
>> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
>> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
>> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
>> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
>> strength to leverage.
>>
>> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles,
>> and now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's 
>> early
>> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
>> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
>> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>>
>> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army
>> that puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost 
>> guaranteed
>> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  
>> And
>> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
>> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can c

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Emilio Hernandez

Maybe we can submit tickets to AD...

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-05-22 13:44 GMT-05:00 Sebastien Sterling 
:

> I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
> course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
> even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.
>
>
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>
>> If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
>> responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
>> of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
>> already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
>>  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
>> problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
>> restart Maya to receive the new goodies.
>>
>> For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all
>> hats and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.
>>
>> Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a
>> medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself
>> being more productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD
>> than in Maya alone.
>>
>> If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
>>  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
>> really painful.
>>
>> -Lu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lol Lu
>>>
>>> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>>>
>>> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
>>> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz
>>> be with him.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>>>
 +6 Lu


 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:

> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
> meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
> would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still
> some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
> compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by
> artists.
>
> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff
> and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
> animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
> cost of shoddy user experience.
>
> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a
> lot of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
> strength to leverage.
>
> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles,
> and now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's 
> early
> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>
> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army
> that puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost 
> guaranteed
> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
> to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
> with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
> that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
> you're smarter than the average bear.
>
> I still don't like it.
>
> -Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever
>> made a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so litt

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

I think i mentioned before that if you have ten TD's waiting on you of
course, i assume the experience becomes a lot more fun. but most places
even medium businesses will not have that kind of work force.

On 22 May 2014 19:25, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:

> If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
> responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
> of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
> already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
>  I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
> problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
> restart Maya to receive the new goodies.
>
> For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all hats
> and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.
>
> Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a
> medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself
> being more productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD
> than in Maya alone.
>
> If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."
>  The answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is
> really painful.
>
> -Lu
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lol Lu
>>
>> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>>
>> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
>> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz
>> be with him.
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>>
>>> +6 Lu
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>>>
 I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
 meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
 would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still
 some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
 compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by
 artists.

 Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff
 and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
 animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
 animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
 cost of shoddy user experience.

 Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a
 lot of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
 implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
 and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
 more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
 more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
 used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
 of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
 it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
 strength to leverage.

 Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles,
 and now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
 stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
 would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
 plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.

 Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army
 that puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
 you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
 though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
 packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
 to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
 with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
 that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
 you're smarter than the average bear.

 I still don't like it.

 -Lu

 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
 sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever
> made a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
> potential.
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>
>> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
>> wrote:
>> > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Meng-Yang Lu

If I were a modeler, animator, or lighter, AND I was absolved of all TD
responsibilities, I would absolutely love Maya.  This is the vast majority
of the artist experience.  It is being in an established shop with tools
already in place to get your work done or a team of TDs to make said tools.
 I'm surrounded by happy animators, modelers, and lighters. If they hit a
problem, they just submit a ticket and a magic email appears asking them to
restart Maya to receive the new goodies.

For non-departmentalized facilities where one artist need to wear all hats
and FX artists, the Maya experience is a completely different one.

Maya is the application I have the deepest knowledge in, but even with a
medium to shallow working knowledge in Softimage or Houdini, I find myself
being more productive over time in those application as a generalist/TD
than in Maya alone.

If I had a nickel for questions starting with... "In Maya, can you..."  The
answer is always yes.  Getting to that "yes" more often than not is really
painful.

-Lu



On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lol Lu
>
> It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)
>
> I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a
> feature rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz
> be with him.
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:
>
>> +6 Lu
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>>
>>> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
>>> meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
>>> would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still
>>> some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
>>> compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by
>>> artists.
>>>
>>> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff
>>> and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
>>> animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
>>>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
>>> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
>>> cost of shoddy user experience.
>>>
>>> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot
>>> of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
>>> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
>>> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
>>> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
>>> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
>>> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
>>> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
>>> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
>>> strength to leverage.
>>>
>>> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles,
>>> and now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
>>> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
>>> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
>>> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>>>
>>> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army
>>> that puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
>>> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
>>> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
>>> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
>>> to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
>>> with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
>>> that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
>>> you're smarter than the average bear.
>>>
>>> I still don't like it.
>>>
>>> -Lu
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever
 made a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
 potential.


 On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:

> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
> wrote:
> > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and
> a long list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned 
> by
> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the
> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full
> switch (not all but the majority).
> >
> > The genius side (and the part I don't like

RE: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Manuel Huertas Marchena

"...the work around is to put a parent constraint, then delete it :P"   ..hahah 
really? Damn thats really out of the box...!
thanks

 

IMDB | Portfolio | Vimeo
| Linkedin


Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 18:45:07 +0100
Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
From: sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

 " 
the other day I wanted to do a quick pivot operation... (to match the 
pivot of an x object...) couldn't find how to do that in maya!! someone 
at work told me I need a script for something that simple... "

Ahahaha! Yes i know right ?! its infuriating, the work around is to put a 
parent constraint, then delete it :P


Ever tried hiding a group of polygonz...


On 22 May 2014 18:35, Manuel Huertas Marchena  wrote:




"...applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists."

well said Lu. Personally I am transitioning to Maya for the moment... (most 
jobs are maya related in lookdev/lighting so not too much of a choice 
unfortunatly atm..) 
..and I am amazed at how something like the hypershade is used to do production 
shading... it looks ultra clumbsy to me, render tree in soft is easy on the eyes
and everything is well organized it just feels well crafted...  haven't got the 
time to test the node editor in maya for shading but it looks like it does not 
come close to xsi's one..
also I dont see too many tutorials about using the maya node editor for 
shading, most I find are with the hypershade... if someone has some good links 
to share, that ll be cool, thanks.

  the other day I wanted to do a quick pivot operation... (to match the pivot 
of an x object...) couldn't find how to do that in maya!! someone at work told 
me I need a script for something that simple... 

-Manu


IMDB | Portfolio | Vimeo
| Linkedin


Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:11:09 -0700

Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
From: ntmon...@gmail.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com


I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant to 
be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had 
something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool thing 
you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to applications 
that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.


Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and 
animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what animation 
could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.  However, XSI 
never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of animation 
performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the cost of shoddy 
user experience.  


Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot of the 
early technology that went into the Maya side were far better implemented than 
in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity, and it was attractive 
to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had more functionality in Maya 
before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had more functionality in Maya than 
the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still used in both conventional and 
unconventional ways because every other out of box cloth solver just isn't 
good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and it's second only to something like 
Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a strength to leverage.  


Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and now 
FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early stages as a 
plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools would be production 
worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a plug-in and blindly marched 
into production many times.  


Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army that puts 
ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed you'll find 
someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And though that pool 
may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other packages, you definitely 
have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick to your hearts desire.  To be 
fair, there are good Maya users out there with their own Maya knick-knacks that 
can still put up good work.  And to that point, if you're a Maya user, you're 
almost never out of a job if you're smarter than the average bear.


I still don't like it.  
-Lu  

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:


In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made a 
fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full potential.





On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:



20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)



On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:

> Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago,

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

 " the other day I wanted to do a quick pivot operation... (to match the
pivot of an x object...) couldn't find how to do that in maya!! someone at
work told me I need a script for something that simple... "

Ahahaha! Yes i know right ?! its infuriating, the work around is to put a
parent constraint, then delete it :P

Ever tried hiding a group of polygonz...


On 22 May 2014 18:35, Manuel Huertas Marchena  wrote:

> "...applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists."
>
> well said Lu.
> Personally I am transitioning to Maya for the moment... (most jobs are
> maya related in lookdev/lighting so not too much of a choice unfortunatly
> atm..)
> ..and I am amazed at how something like the hypershade is used to do
> production shading... it looks ultra clumbsy to me, render tree in soft is
> easy on the eyes
> and everything is well organized it just feels well crafted...  haven't
> got the time to test the node editor in maya for shading but it looks like
> it does not come close to xsi's one..
> also I dont see too many tutorials about using the maya node editor for
> shading, most I find are with the hypershade... if someone has some good
> links to share, that ll be cool, thanks.
>
>   the other day I wanted to do a quick pivot operation... (to match the
> pivot of an x object...) couldn't find how to do that in maya!! someone at
> work told me I need a script for something that simple...
>
> -Manu
>
>
> IMDB <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4755969/> | Portfolio
> <http://envmanu.com> <http://envmanu.carbonmade.com/>| 
> Vimeo<http://vimeo.com/manuelhuertasmarchena>|
> Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/manuelhuertas>
>
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:11:09 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
> From: ntmon...@gmail.com
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
>
> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant
> to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had
> something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool
> thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to
> applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.
>
> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and
> animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
> animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
> cost of shoddy user experience.
>
> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot
> of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
> strength to leverage.
>
> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and
> now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>
> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army that
> puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
> to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
> with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
> that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
> you're smarter than the average bear.
>
> I still don't like it.
>
> -Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made
> a fu

RE: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Manuel Huertas Marchena

"...applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists."
well said Lu. Personally I am transitioning to Maya for the moment... (most 
jobs are maya related in lookdev/lighting so not too much of a choice 
unfortunatly atm..) ..and I am amazed at how something like the hypershade is 
used to do production shading... it looks ultra clumbsy to me, render tree in 
soft is easy on the eyesand everything is well organized it just feels well 
crafted...  haven't got the time to test the node editor in maya for shading 
but it looks like it does not come close to xsi's one..also I dont see too many 
tutorials about using the maya node editor for shading, most I find are with 
the hypershade... if someone has some good links to share, that ll be cool, 
thanks.
  the other day I wanted to do a quick pivot operation... (to match the pivot 
of an x object...) couldn't find how to do that in maya!! someone at work told 
me I need a script for something that simple... 
-Manu

IMDB | Portfolio | Vimeo
| Linkedin

Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:11:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)
From: ntmon...@gmail.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant to 
be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had 
something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool thing 
you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to applications 
that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.

Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and 
animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what animation 
could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.  However, XSI 
never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of animation 
performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the cost of shoddy 
user experience.  

Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot of the 
early technology that went into the Maya side were far better implemented than 
in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity, and it was attractive 
to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had more functionality in Maya 
before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had more functionality in Maya than 
the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still used in both conventional and 
unconventional ways because every other out of box cloth solver just isn't 
good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and it's second only to something like 
Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a strength to leverage.  

Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and now 
FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early stages as a 
plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools would be production 
worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a plug-in and blindly marched 
into production many times.  

Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army that puts 
ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed you'll find 
someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And though that pool 
may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other packages, you definitely 
have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick to your hearts desire.  To be 
fair, there are good Maya users out there with their own Maya knick-knacks that 
can still put up good work.  And to that point, if you're a Maya user, you're 
almost never out of a job if you're smarter than the average bear.

I still don't like it.  
-Lu  

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:

In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made a 
fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full potential.

On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:

20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:

> Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a long 
> list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by 
> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the 
> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full 
> switch (not all but the majority).

>

> The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of Maya in 
> which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which meant 
> everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top of Maya 
> so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an impossible fight.

>

> Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very good at 
> that because the animation editor and dope shee

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Lol Lu

It's amazing for this, this, this it sucks :)

I believe qualoth has been discontinued. yes next person to offer a feature
rich cloth solution will be a rich man/woman, may the Fabric enginz be with
him.


On 22 May 2014 18:18, Halim Negadi  wrote:

> +6 Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:
>
>> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't
>> meant to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we
>> would've had something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still
>> some cool thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy
>> compared to applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by
>> artists.
>>
>> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff
>> and animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
>> animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
>>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
>> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
>> cost of shoddy user experience.
>>
>> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot
>> of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
>> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
>> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
>> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
>> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
>> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
>> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
>> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
>> strength to leverage.
>>
>> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and
>> now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
>> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
>> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
>> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>>
>> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army
>> that puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
>> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
>> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
>> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
>> to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
>> with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
>> that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
>> you're smarter than the average bear.
>>
>> I still don't like it.
>>
>> -Lu
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever
>>> made a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
>>> potential.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>>>
 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)

 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
 wrote:
 > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a
 long list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by
 Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the
 party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full
 switch (not all but the majority).
 >
 > The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of
 Maya in which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which
 meant everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top
 of Maya so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an
 impossible fight.
 >
 > Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very
 good at that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice,
 also very fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust.
 Manipulators made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it
 was not a myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame
 the envelop deformers were never looked after properly.
 >
 > Jordi Bares
 > jordiba...@gmail.com
 >
 > On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog" 
 wrote:
 >
 >> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that
 Maya was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting
 Softimage from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated
 info?
 >>
 >> --
 >>
 >> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
 >> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Halim Negadi

+6 Lu


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Meng-Yang Lu  wrote:

> I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant
> to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had
> something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool
> thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to
> applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.
>
> Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and
> animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
> animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
>  However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
> animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
> cost of shoddy user experience.
>
> Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot
> of the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
> implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
> and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
> more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
> more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
> used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
> of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
> it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
> strength to leverage.
>
> Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and
> now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
> stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
> would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
> plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.
>
> Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army that
> puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
> you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
> though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
> packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
> to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
> with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
> that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
> you're smarter than the average bear.
>
> I still don't like it.
>
> -Lu
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made
>> a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
>> potential.
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>>
>>> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a
>>> long list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by
>>> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the
>>> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full
>>> switch (not all but the majority).
>>> >
>>> > The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of
>>> Maya in which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which
>>> meant everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top
>>> of Maya so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an
>>> impossible fight.
>>> >
>>> > Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very
>>> good at that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice,
>>> also very fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust.
>>> Manipulators made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it
>>> was not a myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame
>>> the envelop deformers were never looked after properly.
>>> >
>>> > Jordi Bares
>>> > jordiba...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog" 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that
>>> Maya was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting
>>> Softimage from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated
>>> info?
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>>> >> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Meng-Yang Lu

I think the only failure of the node architecture was that it wasn't meant
to be used by artists.  Had they had that in consideration, we would've had
something like ICE or close to it ages ago.  There are still some cool
thing you can do in the Hypershade today, but it's unwieldy compared to
applications that knew nodes was going to be tinkered with by artists.

Maya strengths are still it's quick interactive ability to build stuff and
animate.  Since this is an XSI list, we've all had a taste of what
animation could be due to some really nice "quality of life" features.
 However, XSI never in the time I've done 3D ever caught up in terms of
animation performance.  It is still king of interactive performance at the
cost of shoddy user experience.

Before, Maya was the do-it-all tookit and still can be today.  And a lot of
the early technology that went into the Maya side were far better
implemented than in any other package.  The strength was indeed ubiquity,
and it was attractive to plug-in developers alongside 3DS max.  Shave had
more functionality in Maya before it was integrated into XSI.  Syflex had
more functionality in Maya than the XSI integration too.  nCloth is still
used in both conventional and unconventional ways because every other out
of box cloth solver just isn't good.  We still rely on nCloth heavily and
it's second only to something like Qualoft.  nCloth is definitely a
strength to leverage.

Also, Maya + Window = new tech hotbed.  Syflex, Shave, Comet Muscles, and
now FE/Splice.  Anything that seems promising usually begins it's early
stages as a plug-in for Maya.  No guarantees that these fledgling tools
would be production worthy, but I'm the first to admit I've grabbed a
plug-in and blindly marched into production many times.

Maya's other strength is it's large user base.  If you want a CG army that
puts ancient Persia to shame, go with Maya.  You are almost guaranteed
you'll find someone to fill an empty seat if your shop is a Maya one.  And
though that pool may not be as experienced or agile as artists in other
packages, you definitely have the advantage of choice and can cherry-pick
to your hearts desire.  To be fair, there are good Maya users out there
with their own Maya knick-knacks that can still put up good work.  And to
that point, if you're a Maya user, you're almost never out of a job if
you're smarter than the average bear.

I still don't like it.

-Lu

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made
> a fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
> potential.
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>
>> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
>> wrote:
>> > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a
>> long list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by
>> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the
>> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full
>> switch (not all but the majority).
>> >
>> > The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of
>> Maya in which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which
>> meant everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top
>> of Maya so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an
>> impossible fight.
>> >
>> > Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very
>> good at that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice,
>> also very fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust.
>> Manipulators made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it
>> was not a myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame
>> the envelop deformers were never looked after properly.
>> >
>> > Jordi Bares
>> > jordiba...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog" 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that
>> Maya was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting
>> Softimage from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated
>> info?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> >> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Jordi Bares

Time passes so fast in hyper-London I just made you guys 4 years older!

X-D

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 May 2014, at 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
> 
> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
> 
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>> Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a long 
>> list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by 
>> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the 
>> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full 
>> switch (not all but the majority).
>> 
>> The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of Maya in 
>> which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which meant 
>> everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top of 
>> Maya so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an impossible 
>> fight.
>> 
>> Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very good at 
>> that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice, also very 
>> fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust. Manipulators 
>> made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it was not a 
>> myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame the envelop 
>> deformers were never looked after properly.
>> 
>> Jordi Bares
>> jordiba...@gmail.com
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya 
>>> was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage 
>>> from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

In fairness the architecture is admirable, i don't think anyone ever made a
fully nodal DCC after maya, to bad so little of it reaches its full
potential.


On 22 May 2014 17:15, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:

> 20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares 
> wrote:
> > Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a
> long list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by
> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the
> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full
> switch (not all but the majority).
> >
> > The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of Maya
> in which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which meant
> everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top of
> Maya so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an impossible
> fight.
> >
> > Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very
> good at that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice,
> also very fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust.
> Manipulators made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it
> was not a myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame
> the envelop deformers were never looked after properly.
> >
> > Jordi Bares
> > jordiba...@gmail.com
> >
> > On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog" 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that
> Maya was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting
> Softimage from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated
> info?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> >> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Luc-Eric Rousseau

20 years.. 4/5 years late..adjusted for inflation I guess ;)

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a long 
> list of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by 
> Microsoft at the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the 
> party, which was a death sentence and big facilities by then did the full 
> switch (not all but the majority).
>
> The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of Maya in 
> which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which meant 
> everybody was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top of Maya 
> so by the time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an impossible fight.
>
> Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very good at 
> that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice, also very 
> fast with multiple characters and some versions very robust. Manipulators 
> made life a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it was not a 
> myth, but today it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame the envelop 
> deformers were never looked after properly.
>
> Jordi Bares
> jordiba...@gmail.com
>
> On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog"  wrote:
>
>> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya was 
>> the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage from the 
>> equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Jordi Bares

Maya was ahead of its time 20 years ago, the novel architecture and a long list 
of historical events and mismanagement from Softimage (owned by Microsoft at 
the time) meant XSI arrived at least 4/5 years late to the party, which was a 
death sentence and big facilities by then did the full switch (not all but the 
majority).

The genius side (and the part I don't like) was the viral nature of Maya in 
which you have to write stuff for pretty much everything which meant everybody 
was building tons of software (and complex ones too) on top of Maya so by the 
time XSI was starting to pick up pace it was an impossible fight.

Was maya great for character animation? Yes, It has always been very good at 
that because the animation editor and dope sheet were very nice, also very fast 
with multiple characters and some versions very robust. Manipulators made life 
a pleasure (remember XSI introduced them late) so it was not a myth, but today 
it XSI is imho way superior for animation, shame the envelop deformers were 
never looked after properly.

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com

On 22 May 2014, at 14:25, "Leendert A. Hartog"  wrote:

> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya was 
> the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage from the 
> equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Angus Davidson

I must admit I much prefer to modo animation tools to Mayas and even soft 
images (note just talking animation not rigging)

Using the spacing chart , being able to adjust animation arcs visually , 
creating on the fly ui’s to watch and create keys just for what I am looking at 
in such an easy way to me makes it so much more intuitive. For me working with 
the curves in the Modo graph editor just seem much more fluid.

That being said Maya is heavily production proven in this area so it does have 
that advantage.



From: Mario Reitbauer 
mailto:cont...@marioreitbauer.at>>
Reply-To: 
"softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>" 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
Date: Thursday 22 May 2014 at 4:01 PM
To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>" 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
Subject: Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

For Character Animation you can still use max if you want to animate for games.

Which in the end isn't any better...


2014-05-22 15:48 GMT+02:00 Mirko Jankovic 
mailto:mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>>:
Unfortunately for character animation part there are no alternatives.
Alternative is something you can do same job easier or at least same level of 
effectiveness.
There is no one out commercially available.


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Leendert A. Hartog 
mailto:hirazib...@live.nl>> wrote:
Okay, but discounting Softimage and considering the alternatives (again: 
possibly only back in the day)?


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com<http://si-community.com>






This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original 
message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to 
enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
writing to the contrary.

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mario Reitbauer

For Character Animation you can still use max if you want to animate for
games.

Which in the end isn't any better...


2014-05-22 15:48 GMT+02:00 Mirko Jankovic :

> Unfortunately for character animation part there are no alternatives.
> Alternative is something you can do same job easier or at least same level
> of effectiveness.
> There is no one out commercially available.
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:
>
>> Okay, but discounting Softimage and considering the alternatives (again:
>> possibly only back in the day)?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Eric Turman

Maya's animation tools are better than they were, yes ( I like the fcurve
lattice but even that needs work in its selection/manipulation area) , but
not better than the current Softimage. Our lead animator who was a maya
fanboy now complains that the current Maya fcurve editor is slowing him
down.

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Peter Agg  wrote:

> I'd say that it is better now though, if only because Soft hasn't really
> had much development.
>
>
>

-=T=-

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Angus Davidson

Look at World of Warcraft for example. By todays standards technically its
supposedly not that great. What it did have however was timing. At the
time it was the best of what was there and it was marketed extremely well.
As such even in decline at 7 Million plus subscribers it still orders of
magnitude more popular then most new MMO¹s

To me Maya is very much the same. It got to be the industry standard by
being better and more marketed for a sort period of time then anything
else. Now its got to the point where people have invested so much into it
that its hard to think about using something else. However time = money
will eventually bring houdini more and more into the main pipeline
application space. Accountancy always wins.

On 2014/05/22, 12:59 PM, "Leendert A. Hartog"  wrote:

>So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
>Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>
>-- 
>
>Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>

This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original 
message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to 
enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
writing to the contrary.

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mirko Jankovic

Unfortunately for character animation part there are no alternatives.
Alternative is something you can do same job easier or at least same level
of effectiveness.
There is no one out commercially available.

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

> Okay, but discounting Softimage and considering the alternatives (again:
> possibly only back in the day)?
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Okay, but discounting Softimage and considering the alternatives (again: 
possibly only back in the day)?


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Peter Agg

I'd say that it is better now though, if only because Soft hasn't really
had much development.


On 22 May 2014 14:31, Eric Turman  wrote:

> Propaganda.
>
>
> It wasn't bad, just not really any better and in some areas (like trax)
> worse.
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:
>
>> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya
>> was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage
>> from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Eric Turman

Propaganda.


It wasn't bad, just not really any better and in some areas (like trax)
worse.


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

> Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya
> was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage
> from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>


-- 




-=T=-

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Eric Turman

Well, the node editor can be clunky--especially how it has the propensity
to throw in unit converters all over the place and you end up getting
double or triple degree to radian calculations without asking for them. And
the functions that are not missing can be hidden or the way to achieve
themnot clean...like subtracting, or single argument conditionals etc.
But it does evaluate fast (like Softimage's expressions)

Maya and soft are kind of opposites in the node/tri-count area Softimage
can handle a bazillion triangles on as long as you have few nodes (meshes,
nulls etc.) in the scene, and Maya can handle a huge number of nodes, but
not nearly the number or triangles as Softimage.



-- 




-=T=-

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Okay, a more specific question. Back in the day I always heard that Maya 
was the most useful tool for Character Animation (discounting Softimage 
from the equation). Was this just myth or is it just outdated info?


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Sergio Mucino

BTW, just to clarify... I don't hate Maya per se (ok... I hate it throughout 
the day... Several times). It is actually a good package (it didn't become the 
standard in film just for no reason). However, to me, "strengths" reads as 
"qualities that surpass anything else by an noticeable margin". In that sense, 
I can't pinpoint any. But then again, that's maybe just due to how I use the 
application (I'm just the rigging part of the chain). I guess a pipeline TD 
would maybe have a different opinion. I will add that Maya does scale well, and 
plays fairly with all the other pipeline apps. Dunno what else to say... 
There's a lot of available scripts/plugins out there that will help you live 
through its defects? ( but that can be said for pretty much any application ). 

Sergio Muciño.
Sent from my iPad.

> On May 22, 2014, at 8:37 AM, "Stefan Kubicek"  wrote:
> 
> A robot a day keeps the doctor away?
> 
> 
> http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/making-of-the-amazing-spider-man-2-rhino/ 
> 
> blaa ?
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2014 13:11, Martin  wrote:
>> Tough question.
>> 
>> Modeling. Nothing really. A few tools that SI lacks like preserve uvs, lock 
>> sub components, sculpt tool, some tools that work better, but nothing 
>> special.
>> 
>> Animation. Nothing either.
>> 
>> nCloth, nHair, and muscles may be an strength point but I almost never use 
>> them so I can't talk about it.
>> 
>> Viewport. Even the old Maya viewport is better than the newest SI one. And 
>> this is a big difference when you have to deal with alpha bitmaps, vertex 
>> colors and normal maps when you're modeling game assets.
>> 
>> Coding. You have access to a lot more places than with SI. But writing in 
>> Mel is a nightmare if you write something big, and the Python experience 
>> isn't very pleasant but I don't have experience with Pymel.
>> 
>> ASCII format.
>> 
>> Ignore version option. You can open data in older versions, sometimes. I 
>> find this feature a little unreliable since 2012 (or 2013?, can't remember)
>> 
>> I can't think about any other big strength, sorry.
>> 
>> Oh wait. It isn't dead, and you can find a lot of jobs and users around the 
>> world. It isn't a Maya feature but that's the main reason why Maya is the 
>> leader.
>> 
>> Martin
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
>
> -
>Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
> -
>   Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
> A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
>  Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
>www.keyvis.at
>  This email and its attachments are
> confidential and for the recipient only

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Sergio Mucino

I actually thought it was the worst node editor I've used in my life. 

Sergio Muciño.
Sent from my iPad.

> On May 22, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Mario Reitbauer  
> wrote:
> 
> I would say after using it a bit. The node editor is acutally something worth 
> using it.
> 
> 
> 2014-05-22 14:03 GMT+02:00 Sebastien Sterling :
>> Are you trying to attain a specific level of generalism ?
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2014 12:44, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:
>>> Thanks for that...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Sergio Mucino

I'm gonna be with Sebastien on this one. Maya is not stronger than anything in 
a way worth mentioning. It is the winner if the race for historical reasons, 
and because the race was rigged (ha... See what I did there? ;-) ). If 
anything, it is a very open package, but that doesn't get you anything by 
itself. Maybe, as it was mentioned before, it is the most rounded package. It 
does everything, and it does it well but at the cost of making you pay in blood 
for it. Personally, after using Modo, I don't miss Maya for a single second (it 
was a package I never really liked, to start with... It just allowed me to get 
my work done much more efficiently than Max). Granted, there are still many 
things that Modo doesn't do yet, but some of these I can fake (I.e. Muscles), 
and others are changing rapidly. I'm happier there than having to deal with a 
package that after strutting for 3 minutes forces me to enter some arcane line 
of code from the lost books of the Ancients just to add a circle shape to my 
joint (are you for f real?.). 

There. Now, back to my usual happy part of the day (the rest of it, with no 
Maya included) :-) 

Sergio Muciño.
Sent from my iPad.

> On May 22, 2014, at 6:59 AM, "Leendert A. Hartog"  wrote:
> 
> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone? Somehow 
> I doubt that... ;)
> 
> -- 
> 
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Stefan Kubicek


A robot a day keeps the doctor away?



http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/making-of-the-amazing-spider-man-2-rhino/
blaa ?


On 22 May 2014 13:11, Martin  wrote:

Tough question.

Modeling. Nothing really. A few tools that SI lacks like preserve uvs, lock sub 
components, sculpt tool, some tools that work better, but nothing >>special.

Animation. Nothing either.

nCloth, nHair, and muscles may be an strength point but I almost never use them 
so I can't talk about it.

Viewport. Even the old Maya viewport is better than the newest SI one. And this is a 
big difference when you have to deal with alpha bitmaps, >>vertex colors and 
normal maps when you're modeling game assets.

Coding. You have access to a lot more places than with SI. But writing in Mel is a 
nightmare if you write something big, and the Python experience >>isn't very 
pleasant but I don't have experience with Pymel.

ASCII format.

Ignore version option. You can open data in older versions, sometimes. I find 
this feature a little unreliable since 2012 (or 2013?, can't remember)

I can't think about any other big strength, sorry.

Oh wait. It isn't dead, and you can find a lot of jobs and users around the world. It 
isn't a Maya feature but that's the main reason why Maya is the >>leader.


Martin

Sent from my iPhone






--

-
   Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
-
  Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
 Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
   www.keyvis.at
 This email and its attachments are
confidential and for the recipient only

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mario Reitbauer

I would say after using it a bit. The node editor is acutally something
worth using it.


2014-05-22 14:03 GMT+02:00 Sebastien Sterling 
:

> Are you trying to attain a specific level of generalism ?
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 12:44, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that...
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/making-of-the-amazing-spider-man-2-rhino/

blaa ?


On 22 May 2014 13:11, Martin  wrote:

> Tough question.
>
> Modeling. Nothing really. A few tools that SI lacks like preserve uvs,
> lock sub components, sculpt tool, some tools that work better, but nothing
> special.
>
> Animation. Nothing either.
>
> nCloth, nHair, and muscles may be an strength point but I almost never use
> them so I can't talk about it.
>
> Viewport. Even the old Maya viewport is better than the newest SI one. And
> this is a big difference when you have to deal with alpha bitmaps, vertex
> colors and normal maps when you're modeling game assets.
>
> Coding. You have access to a lot more places than with SI. But writing in
> Mel is a nightmare if you write something big, and the Python experience
> isn't very pleasant but I don't have experience with Pymel.
>
> ASCII format.
>
> Ignore version option. You can open data in older versions, sometimes. I
> find this feature a little unreliable since 2012 (or 2013?, can't remember)
>
> I can't think about any other big strength, sorry.
>
> Oh wait. It isn't dead, and you can find a lot of jobs and users around
> the world. It isn't a Maya feature but that's the main reason why Maya is
> the leader.
>
> Martin
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Martin

Tough question.

Modeling. Nothing really. A few tools that SI lacks like preserve uvs, lock sub 
components, sculpt tool, some tools that work better, but nothing special.

Animation. Nothing either.

nCloth, nHair, and muscles may be an strength point but I almost never use them 
so I can't talk about it.

Viewport. Even the old Maya viewport is better than the newest SI one. And this 
is a big difference when you have to deal with alpha bitmaps, vertex colors and 
normal maps when you're modeling game assets.

Coding. You have access to a lot more places than with SI. But writing in Mel 
is a nightmare if you write something big, and the Python experience isn't very 
pleasant but I don't have experience with Pymel.

ASCII format.

Ignore version option. You can open data in older versions, sometimes. I find 
this feature a little unreliable since 2012 (or 2013?, can't remember)

I can't think about any other big strength, sorry.

Oh wait. It isn't dead, and you can find a lot of jobs and users around the 
world. It isn't a Maya feature but that's the main reason why Maya is the 
leader.

Martin
Sent from my iPhone

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Well, I am a "mere" hobbyist, so the generalist approach has always seem 
prudent.


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Are you trying to attain a specific level of generalism ?


On 22 May 2014 12:44, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:

> Thanks for that...
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Yeah am trying to optimize the layout for current shot by deleting out of
camera hierarchies but Maya keeps freezing 10 minutes at a time when
selecting. Lass tool is single threading right?
 On 22 May 2014 12:42, "Stefan Kubicek"  wrote:

>  Total nightmare. Reminds me on stories of the making of Myst (the game),
> with sometimes hours of loading time.
> I couldn't imagine working like that. To be fair, I always found
> loading/saving in Maya pretty fast, even compared to XSI.
> I tried with scenes of equal complexity (lots of geo, but little to no
> construction history) and found it to actually load faster than XSI in most
> cases.
> Memory consumption was often two to three times higher though - I was able
> to load and work on scenes in XSI that wouldn't even fit in memory with
> Maya. That was yeras ago, don't know if anything was improved in this
> regard.
>
> Yes about 30 mins to load
> On 22 May 2014 12:21, "Stefan Kubicek"  wrote:
>
>> Is it done loading ?
>>
>> Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
>> On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
>>> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
>>> user though.
>>>
>>> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
>>> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
>>> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
>>> quaternion.
>>>
>>> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>>>
 Also you ahve to ask more precicely.

 Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys
 loves it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.


 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog <
 hirazib...@live.nl> wrote:

> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
> Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>>Stefan Kubicek 
>> ste...@keyvis.at<%22ste...@keyvis.at%22+%3cste...@keyvis.at%3E>
>> -
>>   Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
>> A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
>>  Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
>>www.keyvis.at
>>  This email and its attachments are
>> confidential and for the recipient only
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
>Stefan Kubicek 
> ste...@keyvis.at<%22ste...@keyvis.at%22+%3cste...@keyvis.at%3E>
> -
>   Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
> A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
>  Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
>www.keyvis.at
>  This email and its attachments are
> confidential and for the recipient only
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)


Thanks for that...

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Total nightmare. Reminds me on stories of the making of Myst (the game), with
sometimes hours of loading time.
I couldn't imagine working like that. To be fair, I always found loading/saving
in Maya pretty fast, even compared to XSI.
I tried with scenes of equal complexity (lots of geo, but little to no
construction history) and found it to actually load faster than XSI in most
cases.
Memory consumption was often two to three times higher though - I was able to
load and work on scenes in XSI that wouldn't even fit in memory with Maya. That
was yeras ago, don't know if anything was improved in this regard.

Yes about 30 mins to load
On 22 May 2014 12:21, "Stefan Kubicek" wrote:

Is it done loading ?

Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" wrote:

Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that from a TD
perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end user though.

strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package: Voxel, quaternion,
heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i have never seen a TD
ever use anything more then linear, or maybe quaternion.

Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.

On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic wrote:

Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys loves it,
or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone? Somehow I
doubt that... ;)

--
Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

-- -
Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
-
Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
www.keyvis.at
This email and its attachments are
confidential and for the recipient only

-
Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
-
Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
www.keyvis.at
This email and its attachments are
confidential and for the recipient only

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

And sorry yes this is just Bg  environment geometry
On 22 May 2014 12:37, "Rob Chapman"  wrote:

> Yes about 30 mins to load
> On 22 May 2014 12:21, "Stefan Kubicek"  wrote:
>
>>  Is it done loading ?
>>
>> Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
>> On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
>>> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
>>> user though.
>>>
>>> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
>>> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
>>> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
>>> quaternion.
>>>
>>> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>>>
 Also you ahve to ask more precicely.

 Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys
 loves it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.


 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog <
 hirazib...@live.nl> wrote:

> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
> Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>>Stefan Kubicek 
>> ste...@keyvis.at<%22ste...@keyvis.at%22+%3cste...@keyvis.at%3E>
>> -
>>   Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
>> A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
>>  Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
>>www.keyvis.at
>>  This email and its attachments are
>> confidential and for the recipient only
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Yes about 30 mins to load
On 22 May 2014 12:21, "Stefan Kubicek"  wrote:

>  Is it done loading ?
>
> Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
> On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> wrote:
>
>> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
>> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
>> user though.
>>
>> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
>> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
>> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
>> quaternion.
>>
>> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>>
>>> Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
>>>
>>> Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys
>>> loves it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog >> > wrote:
>>>
 So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
 Somehow I doubt that... ;)


 --

 Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
 Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com


>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> -
>Stefan Kubicek 
> ste...@keyvis.at<%22ste...@keyvis.at%22+%3cste...@keyvis.at%3E>
> -
>   Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
> A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
>  Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
>www.keyvis.at
>  This email and its attachments are
> confidential and for the recipient only
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

What does the scene consist off ? that would be an advantage, if it could
hold more individual none instanced assets, when it comes to mesh density
xsi outstrips it easily.

you can in fact smooth a character in softimage and playback at a decent
speed, something i have never witnessed in maya outside a playblast.


On 22 May 2014 12:18, Rob Chapman  wrote:

> Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
> On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> wrote:
>
>> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
>> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
>> user though.
>>
>> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
>> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
>> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
>> quaternion.
>>
>> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>>
>>> Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
>>>
>>> Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys
>>> loves it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog >> > wrote:
>>>
 So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
 Somehow I doubt that... ;)


 --

 Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
 Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com


>>>
>>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Stefan Kubicek


Is it done loading ?


Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling"  wrote:

Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that from a TD 
perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end user >>though.

strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package: Voxel, 
quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i have >>never 
seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe quaternion.

Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.



On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:

Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys loves it, 
or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:

So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone? Somehow I 
doubt that... ;)


--
Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com









--

-
   Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
-
  Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3
A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
 Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231
   www.keyvis.at
 This email and its attachments are
confidential and for the recipient only

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Marco Peixoto

I find Maya to be more snapier to Character Animation than XSi, its Hard to
explain, but i prefer to Character Animate there than in Xsi, but only that
:)


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Rob Chapman  wrote:

> Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
> On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> wrote:
>
>> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
>> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
>> user though.
>>
>> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
>> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
>> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
>> quaternion.
>>
>> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>>
>>> Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
>>>
>>> Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys
>>> loves it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog >> > wrote:
>>>
 So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
 Somehow I doubt that... ;)


 --

 Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
 Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com


>>>
>>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Currently loading a 12.3gb scene...
On 22 May 2014 12:12, "Sebastien Sterling" 
wrote:

> Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
> from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
> user though.
>
> strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
> Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
> have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
> quaternion.
>
> Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.
>
>
>
> On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
>
>> Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
>>
>> Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys loves
>> it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
>>> Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Could you say it is scalable? able to do games and films ? i agree that
from a TD perspective it seems ok, doesn't sweeten the pill for the end
user though.

strengths, like it has more skinning algorithms then any other package:
Voxel, quaternion, heat... but then it also has weight painting so bad i
have never seen a TD ever use anything more then linear, or maybe
quaternion.

Viewport 2.0 yea, that a legitimate better.

On 22 May 2014 12:02, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:

> Also you ahve to ask more precicely.
>
> Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys loves
> it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog 
> wrote:
>
>> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
>> Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Stefan Kubicek


My 5 cents:

The viewport is more "modern", faster than XSI's, and supports DX11 shaders.
The SDK is really open, there is hardly anything you don't have access to.
Texture swimming works.
The general notion of complex rig performance is that it's better than in XSI's.
Fluids and Muscles out of the box, abeit not user friendly and of limited 
usability/stability.
More robust NURBS import and surface modeling (e.g. curves on surface, etc).
Better support from game-related 3rd parties (exporters to various game 
engines).
MentalRay is a plugin (that has both pros and cons)


--

-
   Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at
-

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)


Both would interest me ATM.

Greetz
Leendert

--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mirko Jankovic

Also you ahve to ask more precicely.

Do you mean strengths from technical point as it seems that TD guys loves
it, or from artist point as it seems there is big difference there.

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

> So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone?
> Somehow I doubt that... ;)
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mirko Jankovic

So far I can think of one... viewport.
And maybe better connection with 3rd party clients like game engines as it
is more support then SI.
The rest.. cant think of any right now really


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

> As a “perfect companion” to the very interesting “Houdini Weaknesses”
> thread that has developed here recently, I would be interested not so much
> in the weaknesses but in the specific strengths of Maya. The weaknesses
> from a Softimage POV would seem to be pretty well documented, what
> interests me here would be its strengths (if any, hopefully), its redeeming
> features as it were, again from a Softimage POV.
> I’m hoping all the experience bundled in this List could help paint a
> realistic picture.
>
> Greetz
> Leendert
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

You mean they didn't have a big team before :P


On 22 May 2014 11:56, Mário Domingos  wrote:

> The biggest advantage I can see now is that they have a really big team
> working to make it better. Let's if they can make it
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Leendert A. Hartog 
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, shucks, give me something. I am just learning Maya and I could really
>> use a little boost... ;)
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
>> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

So, absolutely no strengths? Market leader on marketing voodoo alone? 
Somehow I doubt that... ;)


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Yoouuu willl... never be alone in hell ?


On 22 May 2014 11:53, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:

> Ah, shucks, give me something. I am just learning Maya and I could really
> use a little boost... ;)
>
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

2014-05-22 Thread Mário Domingos

The biggest advantage I can see now is that they have a really big team
working to make it better. Let's if they can make it

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

> Ah, shucks, give me something. I am just learning Maya and I could really
> use a little boost... ;)
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Ah, shucks, give me something. I am just learning Maya and I could 
really use a little boost... ;)


--

Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com

Re: Maya strengts (anyone?)

Isn't it allegedly easy to build pipelines around it ? that is the theory
right ? also you can drive attributes without expressions.

If i had to guess i'd say it does everything shittly out of the box,
however... it does do EVERYTHING to some extent:

Fur
cloth
fuids
muscle sims...
plus most of the Nucleus systems work together...

If you have a team of dev's and TD's behind it, they can do quite a good
job at salvaging the features? so if you are a big shop and you can afford
to have a pipe built around it, that probably makes it viable... all be it
in the worst way possible for the end user.

On 22 May 2014 11:10, Leendert A. Hartog  wrote:

> As a “perfect companion” to the very interesting “Houdini Weaknesses”
> thread that has developed here recently, I would be interested not so much
> in the weaknesses but in the specific strengths of Maya. The weaknesses
> from a Softimage POV would seem to be pretty well documented, what
> interests me here would be its strengths (if any, hopefully), its redeeming
> features as it were, again from a Softimage POV.
> I’m hoping all the experience bundled in this List could help paint a
> realistic picture.
>
> Greetz
> Leendert
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue
> Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
>
>
>

Maya strengts (anyone?)