Re: [tw5] Fields should have definitions

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Bimlas

As pmario points out, the special behaviour of the fields modified, created, 
tags, list and color is defined within the JavaScript core of TW5, and isn’t 
directly accessible from wikitext. It was clear some time ago that this 
approach isn’t optimal, but by then it was too late to change it.

We could perhaps ameliorate the problem by exposing that JS configuration 
information for wikitext to access.

Best wishes

Jeremy



> On 5 Jan 2020, at 09:01, bimlas  wrote:
> 
> PMario, 
>  
> The boot.js contains some "tiddlerfields" module definition 
> ,
>  which allows special handling for different field types. 
> 
> Yes, that would be a solution, but in editable form (config tiddlers).
> 
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Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

The freelinks plugin currently ignores the tilde character. I’ve not managed to 
find a good way to implement it but I’ll keep thinking about it.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 4 Jan 2020, at 14:42, Mat  wrote:
> 
> @Jeremy
> 
> Possibly it seems the freelinking makes this not work:
> 
> ~ExistingTid
> 
> i.e the tilde doesn't disable the CC link. The tilde does disappear tho, in 
> view mode. For freelink the tilde remains visible. I was expecting both cases 
> to "delink". 
> 
> <:-)
> 
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Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

>  1 - Be able to apply (optional) specific CSS styling to auto soft-links. 
>   For instance, in a draft, it would help me a lot if they were in a 
> different color than hard-links.

I’ve added a class tc-freelink, and given it a pale background colour by 
default.

>   2 - Could there be a toggle in the editor to switch "freelinking" on and 
> off?
>This would help a lot in that I could quickly compare a "hard-links" 
> only mode with added "soft-links" mode

It’s a global option, so it doesn’t really belong in the editor toolbar, which 
contains operations specific to a tiddler. We could make a page control button 
for it (like the timestamp toggle), but we’d need some artwork…

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> Very best wishes
> Josiah
> 
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Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> Rather than us running down the performance rabbit hole again can you please 
> consider my suggestion of optional rule in or rule out of this  as I 
> suggested previously.

Just a very gentle note that the way you’ve expressed this paragraph makes it 
read as an implicit criticism of the approach taken by somebody else in the 
thread. That kind of thing gets in the way of the points you’re trying to 
raise, and I’d urge you to reread postings to make sure your meaning is clear 
without criticising others. If you feel that people aren’t listening to your 
ideas then the most constructive response is to focus on expressing them 
clearly and concisely.

> Any tiddler could be parsed for any tiddler title but the performance 
> requirements will grow with the number of tiddlers. What about an indicator 
> on tiddlers who's title may be worth linking to if found in another tiddler 
> (ignoring case). Then at render one would only need to search the current 
> tiddler for a limited set of titles. A more pervasive mode to be set for 
> exploration only and list tiddlers who are contained in other tiddlers and 
> you optional flag them as worthy of autolinking?

I think you’re suggesting that we give users the ability to limit the tiddlers 
to which freelinks are created. That’s certainly a potential performance 
improvement under consideration.

> Also once an "autolink" is established what about making it permanent with 
> square brackets added to the text.

Do you mean that the square brackets would be inserted any time a freelink is 
created? Would they be removed if the target tiddler ceases to exist? It sounds 
like a hybrid between the two approaches we’ve discussed:

* The dynamic approach taken by the plugin where freelinks are ephemeral, and 
created as required
* The static approach of automatically creating explicit links when saving a 
tiddler

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
> Sometimes going 10% further produces a result that can be deployed in a wider 
> range of situations because it can be scaled to the use case.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2019 at 4:31:07 AM UTC+11, springer wrote:
> Tony asked about RedirectMacro, and I realized that my answer was going to 
> hijack his thread about transclusion. 
> 
> RedirectMacro can be found here: 
> http://checkettsweb.com/styles/themes.htm#RedirectMacro 
> 
> 
> In TW Classic, this plugin made for entirely seamless internal linking, no 
> need for double-brackets nor CamelCase. Anytime a tiddler contained a string 
> (one or more words) that matched an existing tiddler title (or an alias of 
> it, given AliasPlugin), the tiddler would render in view mode just as if a 
> link had been specified, though the tiddler text itself could remain without 
> any kind of link markup. On my old ethics site, you can open a tiddler in 
> edit mode and see the links are "not there" except in this virtual way: 
> http://ethics.tiddlyspot.com/#happiness 
> 
> 
> Here's the kind of use case that made it fabulous: During class (there's a 
> 5-minute warmup problem students do while I hand papers back, unpack and plug 
> in my laptop), I could paste in a bit of from a student's written work 
> (submitted via moodle the night before, with an excerpt from our primary 
> texts and then a paragraph of commentary). As soon as we go from edit to view 
> mode, EVERY technical concept in the excerpt, and every key word and red flag 
> word in the student's commentary, is lit up as a link. I now have all the 
> resources of my wiki available (definitions, pointers) to help structure the 
> discussion as I correct misunderstandings, pull up more details, etc. (Here's 
> a real example 
>  of 
> student writing that I pasted in, and got to render with all the links with 
> no fuss.)
> 
> If someone asks "How much trouble is it to go through and put brackets around 
> all the key terms after you paste?" that person is probably not working in 
> front of a live audience (where that audience is not there to get TiddlyWiki 
> lessons).
> 
> Now, suppose that today I add three terms (with definitions, perhaps some 
> aliases) to my wiki. With RedirectMacro, a single reload of the site was 
> sufficient to update the display of every tiddler that already contained that 
> word or phrase (or its aliases). 
> 
> How much trouble is it to pause, after each time I add a term, to use 
> TiddlerCommander or another advanced search function to find tiddlers with 
> that term and replace appearances of the term with double-bracketed 
> reference? Someone who asks this has not been adding wiki content at the last 
> minute while running late toward a classroom full of students. ;)
> 
> If an equivalent could be generated for TW5, I would be beyond delighted.
> 
> -Springer
> 
> On Sunday, December 29, 

Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Springer

> Just for a quick check, I set up a new prerelease with the plugin and 
> imported my old tiddler set (several hundred strong, from the Classic 
> version, with minimal explicit internal links) and confirmed that it displays 
> strings corresponding to all my tiddler titles as links in RedirectMacro 
> fashion. (So far, it doesn't do anything with alias or aliases fields, I 
> think, although I haven't yet installed any kind of alias-related plugin in 
> this experimental file.)

That’s right, the plugin only implements freelinks, not aliases.

> As you say, it does slow down a large wiki, even for operations that I would 
> not have thought to be related to the link-display process... I wonder 
> whether it would be possible to confine the virtual internal links action to 
> a specific tagged set of tiddlers or to some other list condition? Would that 
> help?

That’s definitely one of the options to explore for improving performance.

> I think it's a marvelous working proof-of-concept, and since the plugin can 
> be disabled (restoring nimble speed to the whole engine), I suspect many 
> people might be intrigued by the chance to show off a tightly-woven version 
> of their file. I could imagine disabling the plugin during long editing 
> sessions, and turning it on for certain demonstrations. But it sure would be 
> ideal to have a variation that keeps the potential quicksand element confined 
> to a tag-specific sandbox of tiddlers...

It’s possible to change which tiddlers are freelinked by customising the shadow 
tiddler $:/plugins/tiddlywiki/freelinks/macros/view. This tiddler is tagged 
$:/tags/Macro/View (a new system tag) which means that it will be included as a 
local macro in each view template. By default, it’s content is:

<$set name="tv-freelinks" value={{$:/config/Freelinks/Enable}}/>

That means that for each tiddler the variable tv-freelinks will be set to the 
tiddler $:/config/Freelinks/Enable, which is set to “yes” or “no” by the 
settings in control panel.

Instead, we can use a filter expression to, say, only freelink the tiddler with 
the title “HelloThere”:

<$set name="tv-freelinks" value={{{ 
[match[HelloThere]then[yes]else[no]] }}}/>

Or, we can make a filter that will only freelink tiddlers with the tag “MyTag”:

<$set name="tv-freelinks" value={{{ 
[tag[MyTags]then[yes]else[no]] }}}/>

Or we can combine both approaches:

<$set name="tv-freelinks" value={{{ [match[HelloThere]] 
~[tag[MyTag]] +[then[yes]else[no]] }}}/>

(I’ll add the above notes to the docs).

> Thanks again Jeremy, and all, for being such an amazingly responsive 
> community!

It’s a pleasure. It’s an interesting problem and I am delighted to have been 
able to welcome you back to the community with it,

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> -Springer
> 
> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 5:47:40 AM UTC-5, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Springer
> 
> I’ve had an initial stab at a freelinking plugin. As expected, it noticeably 
> slows down large wikis with many tiddlers. But it works pretty well with 
> smallish wikis. I’ve got some ideas for improving the speed, but it’s still 
> worth trying out.
> 
> The plugin is available in the prerelease plugin library. That means you 
> should download a copy of the prerelease from 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html 
> <https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html> or 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/index.html 
> <https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/index.html> and then use the plugin 
> library to install “freelinks”.
> 
> Because it’s a prerelease, please don’t rely on it for anything important, 
> but do report how it works with your existing corpus.
> 
> By default, freelinking is only applied within the main view template and the 
> preview panel, and not, for instance, in the sidebar. At this point, 
> automatically generated links do not appear as backlinks.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Springer

I’ve had an initial stab at a freelinking plugin. As expected, it noticeably 
slows down large wikis with many tiddlers. But it works pretty well with 
smallish wikis. I’ve got some ideas for improving the speed, but it’s still 
worth trying out.

The plugin is available in the prerelease plugin library. That means you should 
download a copy of the prerelease from 
https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html 
 or 
https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/index.html 
 and then use the plugin library 
to install “freelinks”.

Because it’s a prerelease, please don’t rely on it for anything important, but 
do report how it works with your existing corpus.

By default, freelinking is only applied within the main view template and the 
preview panel, and not, for instance, in the sidebar. At this point, 
automatically generated links do not appear as backlinks.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


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Re: [tw5] Why RedirectMacro was the best thing ever, and a TW5 solution would be amazing

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Springer

Welcome back! There has been some discussion about freelinking in TW5 a few 
years ago:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1342

The following comment gives the outline of a solution that I still think is 
viable: to make the text widget apply the autolinking at render time.

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1342#issuecomment-71869414 

I'll try to give it some time over the next couple of days,

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 30 Dec 2019, at 17:31, springer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Tony asked about RedirectMacro, and I realized that my answer was going to 
> hijack his thread about transclusion. 
> 
> RedirectMacro can be found here: 
> http://checkettsweb.com/styles/themes.htm#RedirectMacro
> 
> In TW Classic, this plugin made for entirely seamless internal linking, no 
> need for double-brackets nor CamelCase. Anytime a tiddler contained a string 
> (one or more words) that matched an existing tiddler title (or an alias of 
> it, given AliasPlugin), the tiddler would render in view mode just as if a 
> link had been specified, though the tiddler text itself could remain without 
> any kind of link markup. On my old ethics site, you can open a tiddler in 
> edit mode and see the links are "not there" except in this virtual way: 
> http://ethics.tiddlyspot.com/#happiness
> 
> Here's the kind of use case that made it fabulous: During class (there's a 
> 5-minute warmup problem students do while I hand papers back, unpack and plug 
> in my laptop), I could paste in a bit of from a student's written work 
> (submitted via moodle the night before, with an excerpt from our primary 
> texts and then a paragraph of commentary). As soon as we go from edit to view 
> mode, EVERY technical concept in the excerpt, and every key word and red flag 
> word in the student's commentary, is lit up as a link. I now have all the 
> resources of my wiki available (definitions, pointers) to help structure the 
> discussion as I correct misunderstandings, pull up more details, etc. (Here's 
> a real example of student writing that I pasted in, and got to render with 
> all the links with no fuss.)
> 
> If someone asks "How much trouble is it to go through and put brackets around 
> all the key terms after you paste?" that person is probably not working in 
> front of a live audience (where that audience is not there to get TiddlyWiki 
> lessons).
> 
> Now, suppose that today I add three terms (with definitions, perhaps some 
> aliases) to my wiki. With RedirectMacro, a single reload of the site was 
> sufficient to update the display of every tiddler that already contained that 
> word or phrase (or its aliases). 
> 
> How much trouble is it to pause, after each time I add a term, to use 
> TiddlerCommander or another advanced search function to find tiddlers with 
> that term and replace appearances of the term with double-bracketed 
> reference? Someone who asks this has not been adding wiki content at the last 
> minute while running late toward a classroom full of students. ;)
> 
> If an equivalent could be generated for TW5, I would be beyond delighted.
> 
> -Springer
> 
>> On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-5, TonyM wrote:
>> Springer,
>> 
>> Please describe "Clint Checkett's Redirect macro" because I have no idea 
>> what it does, so I can't give an indicator if there is a method to replace 
>> it. I am sure I know more than I used to with TW5.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>>>>>>> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: listed operator slowing down my wiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Hi David. The listed[] operator needs to open every tiddler and have a look, 
> if there is a "backlink" wikitext in the tiddler text. 
> 
> ... Internally the function needs to parse the whole tiddler content, which 
> is "expensive". The results of the parsing are cached. So a second lookup 
> should be significantly faster.
> 
> ... But still every listed[] operator, that is rendered will touch every 
> other tiddler on every refresh.

That's not quite right. It's the links[] and backlinks[] operators that need to 
parse the text of tiddlers. The listed[] operator just scans the "list" field 
of each tiddler, a significantly more efficient process.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
> -mario
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Re: [tw5] Help reducing RAM usage when serving multiple tiddlywikis

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Enrico

TiddlyWiki under Node.js loads the entire wiki into RAM. It does so in order to 
support server-side processing (such as serverside page rendering). But, of 
course, it is relatively resource intensive, and unnecessary if all the server 
is doing is acting as a front end to a database of tiddlers, and the browser is 
doing all the rendering.

Arlen Beiler recently did some exploration along these lines recently:

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAJ1vdSSe4-y4wR%3D6o_ihBmYe8E_bUqAgqT0tpb7LwaSpv7K9Uw%40mail.gmail.com

Best wishes

Jeremy


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>> On 20 Dec 2019, at 15:59, Enrico Guiraud  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> big fan of tiddlywiki (I routinely use 3, hosted on a VPS) and recently I 
> started advertising it to my friends.
> To get more people into tiddlywiki, I just set them up for them on my VPS.
> 
> The problem: I'm now serving an average of 5-6 tiddlywikis, and my little VPS 
> is almost out of RAM: each tiddlywiki server uses 110 MB or more. That's _a 
> lot_, isn't it?
> Can anyone suggest ways to reduce memory usage when serving multiple 
> tiddlywikis?
> 
> Would it be possible to have one server serve different wikis on different 
> paths (and if so, would it help)?
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what causes the large memory usage and whether it can be 
> optimized? I would be willing to put some hours into this -- am a developer, 
> but don't know much about javascript.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Enrico
> 
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Re: [tw5] Is this a bug: removing a tiddler which is tagged say with xx is not removed from xx list filed

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

It is actually intentional. The alternative behaviour would be that when 
modifying a tiddler to remove a tag the core would also update any of the tag 
list fields referencing that tiddler. The core avoids such complicated 
semantics in the tiddler store to keep the foundations of TiddlyWiki simple and 
predictable.

Meanwhile, the current behaviour can be very useful. It means that re-tagging a 
tiddler will generally remember its position in the list.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> On 19 Dec 2019, at 04:27, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> For example 
> 
> you have 5 tiddlers all tagged with xx, 
> reorder them using the tag pill (this will add a list field to xx with 
> ordered title of above 5 tiddlers)
> and then delete two of them
> now open the xx tiddler and look at the list field you see deleted tiddlers 
> still are listed there!!  this will remain until you reorder them again!
> 
> why?
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Favorites plugin: new update 3.1.0

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> I did not want to high Jack the thread. But I thought this info important for 
> mohammadss different releases. I understand this may have a reason but surely 
> we could get dropped plugins to be saved into the node required locations to 
> bring these behaviors inline. It seems an unnesasary complication. I did not 
> notice so much because I tend to install my own macros a lot. It seems a 
> bridge too far for a user moving to a folder wiki.
> 
> This possibly explains some odd behavior I have experienced with no messages.
> 
> I will revisit this for myself but can we build a solution to bring them 
> inline? 

It's done the way that it is to make it easier to keep the server secure. 
TiddlyWiki is designed to support scenarios where the server isn't under the 
control of the end user (as with e.g. TiddlySpot). In that scenario you 
wouldn't want browser users to be able to run arbitrary plugins on the server.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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[tw5] Re: $:/StoryList on BOB

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Torax

Just a reminder that a number of users read this forum via email (including 
me), and so will never see edits made after posting. It's usually better to 
make a second post than make substantive edits to an existing post.


> Sorry - got the whole thing completely wrong. The Default-Tiddler-feature 
> works fine. It is the StoryList, which is not saved between sessions. To 
> add the filter "[list[$:/StoryList]]" into the setting doesn't restore the 
> current open tiddlers between sessions / reloads. So how I can get back 
> this feature?
>

A simple work around if you're using a single browser is to switch the 
control panel setting "Navigation Address Bar" to "include the target 
tiddler and the current story sequence".

Best wishes

Jeremy
 

>
> Thanks and cheers.
>
> ToraxMalu
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Favorites plugin: new update 3.1.0

[Jeremy Ruston]

> The wiki running under Node.js will only process plugins loaded via the 
> tiddlywiki.info file, or directly from the command line.

I should have added that Node.js will also load plugin folders from the 
"plugins" subfolder of a wiki folder.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Re: Favorites plugin: new update 3.1.0

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Can I ask if you can tell me what the difference is if rather using the 
> folder version I drop the single file plugin on a node hosted wiki? I am sure 
> I should already understand the full consequences how ever I think if we 
> present alternative distributions we should explain the pros and cons of each.

When using TiddlyWiki on Node.js in the client server configuration there are 
actually two wikis running, one in the browser and one on the server, 
communicating via HTTP.

The wiki running under Node.js will only process plugins loaded via the 
tiddlywiki.info file, or directly from the command line.

Tiddlers in the wiki itself that happen to contain plugins will not be 
processed as plugins by the server wiki, they'll just be treated as ordinary 
tiddlers.

However, when the server packs those tiddlers up into a TiddlyWiki HTML file 
for the browser, the plugin tiddler will be packed into the file in the usual 
way, and then will be loaded normally by the browser wiki.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> 
> I am not saying this, perhaps moderators are necessary, I am saying to avoid 
> active moderation unless there is a real need. Sure spammers and trolls 
> should be locked out.

Are you saying that this community practices active moderation without a real 
need? Or that you’re afraid it’s going to start doing so?

> I have being involved in online communities with little or no moderators, 
> because the membership as a whole moderate themselves. In many respects this 
> already occurs in the TiddlyWiki groups. We regular posters also promote a 
> healthy collaborative environment without applying moderation.

OK

> I am keen on a "transparent framework of decision making" but I am not at all 
> keen on reducing functionality to the general membership

It’s important that the community is welcoming to new users. I’ve said a few 
times that having open moderation provides a poor experience for new/rare users 
of the forum. Plus we don’t definitively know which features are controlled by 
the moderation permission setting, so we don’t even know what powers we’re 
handing out.

> and thus demanding more effort from moderators on the basis of "perceived" 
> concerns. An agreed, transparent framework of decision should be based on 
> evidence not opinion (including my own).

What are the perceived concerns that you’re thinking of? What kind of evidence 
do you mean?

> You invited us to comment on this and I know my suggestion may seem 
> non-intuitive and contradictory to many groups, but I is based on my 
> experience.

I think I understand your suggestion, and I hope I’ve explained clearly why I’m 
not in favour of opening up moderation again.

> People now migrate to largely unmoderated forums and social media because of 
> the limitations the old fashioned forums and strict moderation.

Can you point to some “largely unmoderated forums” as examples?

I don’t understand the second point. Social media is highly regulated.

> A google search can find dozens of, all but abandoned, forums all over the 
> internet.

How does this observation fit into your argument?

> Look at the TiddlyWiki Discord as an example for a lightly moderated forum.

It has moderators! And they are active.

> If I were employed by tiddlywiki community some may consider questioning the 
> status quo as a CLM (Career Limiting move) but I naturally only put a strong 
> and novel argument, if I have substantial experience to support my 
> assertions, as I do on this occasion.

The trouble is that you haven’t addressed the points I’ve made in response.

> Any way I have put my case, perhaps sufficiently outside the box that it is 
> not understood. But as long as we maintain the current forum culture we 
> should be fine. 

OK! What do you see as the threats to our current forum culture?

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
>  Regards
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

Are you still arguing that we should open up the group moderation settings 
again? The only rationale I’m hearing is that we can clear up any accidental 
moderation mistakes.

The primary reason that I’m not in favour of doing so is that it makes a poor 
experience for new or occasional users if they do something that they assumed 
to be private and find that it affects other people. I understand that you’re 
arguing that we can educate people, but I’ve argued below that people don’t 
read warnings (nor should they have to). Trying to educate people afterwards 
doesn’t work, because the user has already have the negative experience of 
their behaviour being called out by a moderator.

I’m very happy to continue to discuss it, but it would be helpful if you could  
address the points that I’ve raised so far — in particular, I don’t think we 
should depart from the usual practices of open source communities by inventing 
our own way of doing things.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 11 Dec 2019, at 22:28, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Jeremy,
> 
> If the guidelines are clear and transparent it does not need everyone to read 
> them, regular posters know what is agreed and will promote the guidelines in 
> the community.
> 
> Pinning is a great example, there was no standard set, so people did what 
> they wanted. I for one thought it was a private pin only, as soon as I 
> learned I unpinned, now I can advise others when the pin is inappropriate. 
> Whenever this is done in the forum other onlookers learn what the standard is.
> 
> The people you listed including myself, the regular posters and repliers, are 
> all that is needed to direct MOST cases of forum behaviour. If in the long 
> run we can't control an area enough, fine try an lock it down.
> 
> Other forums have software and moderation features that people use because 
> they are there, the misuse of these features is what kills "open forums".
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 7:51:12 PM UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Tony
> 
>> * Leave moderation functions open to everyone, and provide guidance and 
>> gentle encouragement when their actions affect other users
> 
> My first concern is that people don’t read warnings. We’ve already got a 
> bunch of important warnings at the top of the forum, the more we add the more 
> we risk that users won’t bother to read any of it. So, end users will 
> continue to be surprised that their actions affect other people.
> 
> Secondly, it will completely break the expectations of people who use other 
> forums. Forums of this size always have moderators. I’ve said before we’re 
> not trying to re-invent how open source communities function, we instead seek 
> to learn what works for other similar communities.
> 
>> Fine, If this method failed (in my view unlikely), well take another 
>> approach. 
>> 
>> Ironically I did not know pins affected everyone, and I believe that is what 
>> triggered this whole discussion. Yet what I pinned possibly deserved it.
> 
> I think that’s the problem right there. We can’t have everyone who thinks 
> their posts are important pinning them. It’s an abuse of the way that forums 
> work: the idea is that topics under heavy discussion rise to the top 
> organically.
> 
> My personal opinion is that pinning shouldn’t be done for the our regular 
> users, but rather to help provide signposts for new users, and perhaps rarely 
> visiting users.
> 
> Examples of the threads I’d like to see pinned are:
> 
> * “Newbies start here”, a thread with the top post maintained by moderators
> * “Announcements”, a rolling top post of brief announcements, linking to the 
> original posts
> 
> Beyond that, I’d suggest it only be used for emergencies — e.g. a release 
> with a bug so serious we want to prompt all users to upgrade.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
>> One of the strengths of this community from way back is we suggested people 
>> may want to search the group but not feel shy to ask questions. The result 
>> is I actively answer Questions. If we continue to emphasis this people will 
>> ask questions about pins and tags etc... and a Community FAQ should be 
>> enough. Every member of the group can guide other users if we understand our 
>> practices.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Regards
>> Tony
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 4:10:43 AM UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> Hi Josiah
>> 
>>> Ciao Jeremy
>>> 
>>> The issue on this is that it was a pretty routine issue closing threads on 
>>> request previously. 
>>> It helps in that readers then know you don't need to bother reading that 
>>> thread.
&

Re: [tw5] Bob and TiddlyServer

[Jeremy Ruston]

> In fact, most of the inspiration for it came from Jeremy because of the way 
> he designed the boot.js file and other server related components. The 
> paradigm he used is what made it possible. In a way, it felt like I built a 
> section of TiddlyWiki that had been planned for but never built. Maybe not, 
> but Jeremy definitely laid a solid foundation.

Yes indeed, it's really fun when it happens like that.

As some of you may have noticed, I might have a bias towards writing code, 
rather than writing docs or blog posts. It's fair to say that there's a part of 
me that thinks that writing code is a definitively superior means of expression 
because it's unambiguous and concrete. Seeing code like yours that I could have 
written myself is the most satisfying possible confirmation of that shaky 
theorising. It's also very good for the health of the community to have as many 
developers as possible with that level of understanding of the core code.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> * Leave moderation functions open to everyone, and provide guidance and 
> gentle encouragement when their actions affect other users

My first concern is that people don’t read warnings. We’ve already got a bunch 
of important warnings at the top of the forum, the more we add the more we risk 
that users won’t bother to read any of it. So, end users will continue to be 
surprised that their actions affect other people.

Secondly, it will completely break the expectations of people who use other 
forums. Forums of this size always have moderators. I’ve said before we’re not 
trying to re-invent how open source communities function, we instead seek to 
learn what works for other similar communities.

> Fine, If this method failed (in my view unlikely), well take another 
> approach. 
> 
> Ironically I did not know pins affected everyone, and I believe that is what 
> triggered this whole discussion. Yet what I pinned possibly deserved it.

I think that’s the problem right there. We can’t have everyone who thinks their 
posts are important pinning them. It’s an abuse of the way that forums work: 
the idea is that topics under heavy discussion rise to the top organically.

My personal opinion is that pinning shouldn’t be done for the our regular 
users, but rather to help provide signposts for new users, and perhaps rarely 
visiting users.

Examples of the threads I’d like to see pinned are:

* “Newbies start here”, a thread with the top post maintained by moderators
* “Announcements”, a rolling top post of brief announcements, linking to the 
original posts

Beyond that, I’d suggest it only be used for emergencies — e.g. a release with 
a bug so serious we want to prompt all users to upgrade.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> One of the strengths of this community from way back is we suggested people 
> may want to search the group but not feel shy to ask questions. The result is 
> I actively answer Questions. If we continue to emphasis this people will ask 
> questions about pins and tags etc... and a Community FAQ should be enough. 
> Every member of the group can guide other users if we understand our 
> practices.



> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 4:10:43 AM UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Josiah
> 
>> Ciao Jeremy
>> 
>> The issue on this is that it was a pretty routine issue closing threads on 
>> request previously. 
>> It helps in that readers then know you don't need to bother reading that 
>> thread.
>> Unless a moderator is reading everything it won't happen now.
>> 
>> I hope we can get to some kind of consensus on a way forward because right 
>> now it is less than optimal.
>> I appreciate there are issues on closing threads, pinning & tagging (most 
>> issues are on the latter I think, as its not fully clear what has gone on) 
>> but none of it was exactly a huge problem.
> 
> As far as I can tell we have two options:
> 
> * Leave moderation functions open to everyone, which we know causes problems 
> for users who don’t expect their actions to affect other users
> * Restrict moderation functions to a group of moderators, which we know 
> causes frustration for people who want to be able to do moderator-like things 
> without being a moderator
> 
> Obviously, the latter approach is taken universally by online communities. 
> We’re not trying to re-invent how online communities work (or at least not 
> yet!), and so I don’t see a need to depart from what has worked for other 
> communities.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>> 
>> On Monday, 9 December 2019 16:40:47 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> Hi Josiah
>> 
>>> I just noticed that it appears a reader can no longer "close" a thread.
>>> 
>>> I assume that is a side effect of the recent changes in the admin system?
>>> 
>>> Quite often authors of threads request that (as it is not possible for the 
>>> author of the thread to close it) it be closed when they got an answer that 
>>> solves it.
>>> 
>>> Are moderators now going to look for that? It seemed to work fine before. 
>> 
>> As discussed above, the Google Groups permissions are not very granular. 
>> We’ve changed a single setting called “Moderation” and it appears to affect 
>> pinning, tagging, closing — pretty much everything except post.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes
>>> Josiah
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, 7 December 2019 12:37:34 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I could be wrong, but it looks like the feature has already been turned 

Re: [tw5] Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

If you’re saying that you believe that we don’t need moderators for this group, 
then I respectfully disagree. Firstly, the use of moderation in online 
communities is universal, and secondly we’ve always had moderators.

I don’t think you’re saying that moderators shouldn’t work through an agreed, 
transparent framework of decision making, but really that’s all that is being 
suggested. The alternative is that the moderators work on their gut feel, which 
will inevitably lead to disagreements.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 10 Dec 2019, at 03:28, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> you say
> 
> We have rules because rules are the fairest way to decide things. Without 
> rules all you have is politics.
>  
> I think that is not only over simplified but cynical, actually there is a lot 
> of cynicism driving change here not evidence.
> 
> Who makes the rules and are they fair?, rules are Not always the fairest way 
> to decide things, humans should decide not pre-coded rules. This is not a 
> democracy.
> 
> There are socially mediated rules and there is the the black letter law, I 
> understand it is harder for people to understand how humans already have 
> sophisticated social systems, which can be used to self moderate online 
> systems, but most people only understand hard rules and enforcers. Just like 
> political dictatorial systems deny our humanity, and restrict creativity. 
> 
> I do not want to say "I told you so" but I will later if this belief in 
> moderation continues to expand.
> 
> I spent a number of years building a network upto 45,000 people with only 
> guidelines not moderation, then decisions were made by someone who did not 
> understand the network and it began to erode.
> 
> I feel it is my duty to speak out on this, but it is uncomfortable, because 
> the next phase could be deletion of my words.
> 
> I am not making comment on Eric's genuine management of pinning.
> 
> Sincerely
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

> Ciao Jeremy
> 
> The issue on this is that it was a pretty routine issue closing threads on 
> request previously. 
> It helps in that readers then know you don't need to bother reading that 
> thread.
> Unless a moderator is reading everything it won't happen now.
> 
> I hope we can get to some kind of consensus on a way forward because right 
> now it is less than optimal.
> I appreciate there are issues on closing threads, pinning & tagging (most 
> issues are on the latter I think, as its not fully clear what has gone on) 
> but none of it was exactly a huge problem.

As far as I can tell we have two options:

* Leave moderation functions open to everyone, which we know causes problems 
for users who don’t expect their actions to affect other users
* Restrict moderation functions to a group of moderators, which we know causes 
frustration for people who want to be able to do moderator-like things without 
being a moderator

Obviously, the latter approach is taken universally by online communities. 
We’re not trying to re-invent how online communities work (or at least not 
yet!), and so I don’t see a need to depart from what has worked for other 
communities.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> 
> Best wishes
> Josiah
> 
> On Monday, 9 December 2019 16:40:47 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Josiah
> 
>> I just noticed that it appears a reader can no longer "close" a thread.
>> 
>> I assume that is a side effect of the recent changes in the admin system?
>> 
>> Quite often authors of threads request that (as it is not possible for the 
>> author of the thread to close it) it be closed when they got an answer that 
>> solves it.
>> 
>> Are moderators now going to look for that? It seemed to work fine before. 
> 
> As discussed above, the Google Groups permissions are not very granular. 
> We’ve changed a single setting called “Moderation” and it appears to affect 
> pinning, tagging, closing — pretty much everything except post.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>> 
>> On Saturday, 7 December 2019 12:37:34 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> 
>>> I could be wrong, but it looks like the feature has already been turned 
>>> off. I did feel that the original list of tags was too broad.
>> 
>> It sounds like tagging is classified under the same “moderation” permission 
>> that governs the ability to pin posts. 
>> 
>> We could revert the change, but perhaps the solution here is to appoint some 
>> more group managers. The top 10 posters according to Google Groups are 
>> below. Eric is already a group manager, but it might be good if maybe 3 or 4 
>> of these people volunteered for the role.
>> TonyM
>> Mohammad
>> TiddlyTweeter
>> Mark S
>> Arlen
>> Eric
>> A Gloom
>> PMario
>> (me)
>> Jed (inmysocks)
>> See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki 
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki>
>> 
>> The group managers would:
>> Help Eric with moderating posts flagged by Google as spam
>> Pin and unpin threads
>> Compile pinned anthology posts summarising important announcements and 
>> discussions
>> And perhaps use whatever other useful moderation features may be lurking 
>> under the surface of Google Groups
>> It also seems like we need to be more transparent about the rules and 
>> conventions we’re following to manage the group. I’d suggest adding a 
>> tiddler to tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/> in which we describe our 
>> approach (for example, guidelines about when to pin a thread, or a thread 
>> from last year where I posted about the need to criticise ideas rather than 
>> people). Perhaps we actually need two: one called “Moderation Policies” 
>> focusing on the role of group managers and one called “Code of Conduct” 
>> focusing on the standards of behaviour we expect from everyone in the group.
>> 
>> I’d welcome any advice/thoughts from people who have experience of other 
>> online communities. I’m sure we can do a better job overall, and I suspect 
>> more formal roles in the community will be a part of it.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 4:55:32 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>> In another thread ...
>>> 
>>> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> * Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the 
>>> argument that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as 
>>> to who could see th

Re: [tw5] *** It is the time to be Generous ***

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Bimlas

IssueHunt is new to me, but I’ve come across a few similar things over the 
years:

https://www.bountysource.com/ 
https://gitpay.me/ 

I don’t think we’ve got the numbers for it to work well for us, and would have 
the same concerns as above about introducing money into the basic activities of 
the community.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> On 9 Dec 2019, at 14:23, bimlas  wrote:
> 
> Jeremy,
>  
>  From quite an early point I realised that I shouldn’t in all good conscience 
> ask the broad TiddlyWiki community for cash because in reality it’s actually 
> me who should be paying them.
> 
> An intermediate solution could be https://issuehunt.io/
> 
> This is a platform (?) where you can upload an amount and set an amount for 
> each GitHub issue: if someone can solve the problem, they will receive an X 
> reward. This way, you could repay the amount offered by Tiddly fans for their 
> work on TW development. 
> 
> For example, here's a list of the Boostnote repository issues (the program's 
> authors also created IssueHunt itself): 
> https://issuehunt.io/r/BoostIO/Boostnote
> 
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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

> I just noticed that it appears a reader can no longer "close" a thread.
> 
> I assume that is a side effect of the recent changes in the admin system?
> 
> Quite often authors of threads request that (as it is not possible for the 
> author of the thread to close it) it be closed when they got an answer that 
> solves it.
> 
> Are moderators now going to look for that? It seemed to work fine before. 

As discussed above, the Google Groups permissions are not very granular. We’ve 
changed a single setting called “Moderation” and it appears to affect pinning, 
tagging, closing — pretty much everything except post.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
> Best wishes
> Josiah
> 
> On Saturday, 7 December 2019 12:37:34 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> 
>> I could be wrong, but it looks like the feature has already been turned off. 
>> I did feel that the original list of tags was too broad.
> 
> It sounds like tagging is classified under the same “moderation” permission 
> that governs the ability to pin posts. 
> 
> We could revert the change, but perhaps the solution here is to appoint some 
> more group managers. The top 10 posters according to Google Groups are below. 
> Eric is already a group manager, but it might be good if maybe 3 or 4 of 
> these people volunteered for the role.
> TonyM
> Mohammad
> TiddlyTweeter
> Mark S
> Arlen
> Eric
> A Gloom
> PMario
> (me)
> Jed (inmysocks)
> See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki>
> 
> The group managers would:
> Help Eric with moderating posts flagged by Google as spam
> Pin and unpin threads
> Compile pinned anthology posts summarising important announcements and 
> discussions
> And perhaps use whatever other useful moderation features may be lurking 
> under the surface of Google Groups
> It also seems like we need to be more transparent about the rules and 
> conventions we’re following to manage the group. I’d suggest adding a tiddler 
> to tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/> in which we describe our approach 
> (for example, guidelines about when to pin a thread, or a thread from last 
> year where I posted about the need to criticise ideas rather than people). 
> Perhaps we actually need two: one called “Moderation Policies” focusing on 
> the role of group managers and one called “Code of Conduct” focusing on the 
> standards of behaviour we expect from everyone in the group.
> 
> I’d welcome any advice/thoughts from people who have experience of other 
> online communities. I’m sure we can do a better job overall, and I suspect 
> more formal roles in the community will be a part of it.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 4:55:32 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>> In another thread ...
>> 
>> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> * Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the 
>> argument that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as 
>> to who could see that a thread had been pinned
>> * We should agree on general rules for what threads might qualify for being 
>> pinned. To me, pinning would start with urgent announcements (e.g. if 
>> discovered a serious bug in a release and wanted to warn people to upgrade), 
>> important on-going informational threads like “Newbies start here”
>> 
>> Ciao Jeremy
>> 
>> In another thread 
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/gWtX7uGi2QQ/xg6sv0PICQAJ> we 
>> discussing user v. admin privileges re PINS. 
>> 
>> Here I want to ask about TAGS.
>> 
>> First I just want to check IF you are aware that at the moment any user can 
>> both add or delete TAGS on any post?
>> 
>>   +  In a way its v. good in that missing tags get added. 
>>+ Its good that an original author who has not added them may have them 
>> added by an enthusiastic user
>> 
>>   -  in another way its not ideal as these don't get documented and the 
>> numbers could get vast...
>>   -  I see no place user added tags get listed. 
>> 
>> For example, this post I gave tags: "question GoogleGroup tags" 
>> 
>> Tags have proved very useful for finding things here. But I'm not sure, 
>> without moderated addition, they are optimal.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>> 
>> 
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Re: [tw5] *** It is the time to be Generous ***

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

> Maybe there could be a "bucket" fund? By which I mean donation to a 
> collective fund that is then disbursed to help larger emergent project 
> developers.
> 
> By which I mean there is an overall PayPal for tiddlywiki.com that a small 
> committee decide where it goes?

The trouble is, as Jed suggests, that it's a lot more bureaucracy, and there 
are a lot of challenges to make sure everybody is happy with the decisions of 
the committee. Communities seem to work better without money.

I would be very happy to feature individual fundraising links on 
tiddlywiki.com, although again there's a lot we need to get right to be sure 
that we're being fair.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> A thought
> TT
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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Jeremy,
> 
> You are responding to my comments, Tony, Rather than Marks.

Doh! My apologies, I mistyped but had of course realised that it was you!

The fact is that we’ve had moderators quietly moderating the group since 2005, 
and I don’t think we’ve run into any problems in terms of lightness of touch.

The idea of expanding the pool of operators is to enable us to do more fairly 
specific things, like operating a practical, fair and transparent system for 
deciding which threads get pinned.

Best wishes

Jeremy



> > If there must be moderators I recommend as soft touch as much as possible. 
> 
> I think it’s more about being consistent, transparent and respectful. 
> Effective moderation should be all but invisible. 
> 
> That is in effect a "soft touch", encourage not enforce. 
> Transparent also means always inform the person of an action and Ideally ask 
> them to do it (which they learn from)
> 
> The exception to invisible is you can leave the request to do differently in 
> the treads so others learn from them. 
> 
> 
> > As I said before if you take away responsibility people tend to be less 
> > responsible. 
> 
> I have a sense you’re getting at something here. If you’re talking about the 
> recent change to moderation permissions, I think it’s clear that that was a 
> mistake, but the main observation is that it caused confusion for users, and 
> that’s why I changed it as soon as I discovered the problem. 
> 
> No specific reference here, more a philosophical approach. I have seen forums 
> moderation grow until no one is happy and it's an admin nightmare. Leave it 
> open and promote behaviour change, not settings, where ever possible.
>  
> 
> > If we have a team of moderators I suggest an independent private group so 
> > in rare occasions of issues and contention it can be discussed offline a 
> > little more frankly without accidentally offending people. 
> 
> I’d much, much prefer not to have a private group. Transparency and openness 
> are critical, we can’t sacrifice them to avoid accidentally offending people; 
> we do that by being respectful and putting ourselves in the other persons 
> shoes. 
> 
> You choose, but my experience suggests this would allow "moderators" to ask 
> questions or resolve differences between themselves without airing it 
> unnecessarily. Perhaps an open Discus group or something. As soon as you have 
> more than one moderator, better than expecting one to do it all, a unified 
> approach needs to be negotiated. Debating this in the primary forum just 
> confuses people if they search the forum to find out what "behaviour" is 
> expected.
>  
> 
> > Such a team should ultimately publish guidelines rather than laws. The more 
> > black and white the rules, the more complex rules need to be to avoid 
> > unforscean consequences or freeze out creative collaboration. 
> 
> What would be the distinction between a guideline and a law? 
> 
> A guide line says "please do not pin posts unless they are of a broad 
> community interest and ensure you remove pins in a timely manner, if not an 
> administrator may unpin it.
> 
> A Law says - you shall not pin posts and we won't allow you.
>  
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] *** It is the time to be Generous ***

[Jeremy Ruston]

> 
> While I wish I could hire you, I think it might be beneficial for you to have 
> a "patreon" type support mechanism as well, so that those of us that cant 
> directly hire you, can still "buy you coffee/beer" every once and while 
> through there. 
> 
> Good idea, more people would willing to contribute a donation than needing to 
> hire.

>From quite an early point I realised that I shouldn’t in all good conscience 
>ask the broad TiddlyWiki community for cash because in reality it’s actually 
>me who should be paying them.

The reason is that it is thanks to the interest of this community I’ve been 
able to find and pursue what I can only call my life's work — and that’s a rare 
privilege. But the point is that it’s entirely thanks to the community that any 
of this has happened. Without the support of the community I couldn’t do this.

So, I wouldn’t rule out having a Patreon but my current model is a bit more 
utopian: to try to win decent-sized commercial projects from the relatively few 
members of the community that can afford it. It’s worked quite well for the 
last couple of years.

My clients are basically buying a custom business app based on TiddlyWiki. A 
custom app written by one person would ordinarily be a bit of a liability for a 
commercial organisation because of the risks if that person with their 
specialised knowledge were no longer available. TiddlyWiki’s open source 
community mitigates that risk, and my clients know that they could obtain the 
expertise they needed elsewhere if they needed to. So, again, this community 
underpins my commercial work as well.

The other nice thing about me not having a Patreon is that it hopefully leaves 
more in the pot for the contributors who do have one.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
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Re: [tw5] each operator: Is this a bug?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

> On 9 Dec 2019, at 09:15, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> does has a performance impact if we use [has[color]each[color]] instead of 
> [each[color]has[color]]? which is recommended?
I haven’t timed it, but would expect `[each[color]has[color]]` to be quicker 
under most situations.
> How we can separate tiddlers with no field from tiddler have field but empty?

I think that may not be currently possible.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] each operator: Is this a bug?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Although the current behaviour is confusing, we can’t change it without 
breaking backwards compatibility. I’ve updated the docs to include a note 
pointing out a workaround:

> Note that if a tiddler does not contain field <<.place F>>, it is treated as 
> if the value of the field were empty. Thus, a filter expression such as 
> `[each[color]]` will return one tiddler that doesn't have a `color` field. To 
> obtain just the tiddlers that have a non-blank value for the `color` field 
> one can use `[each[color]has[color]]`.


https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/e33d519ce0d78974d7cef80521abe63c131927cc
 


Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 9 Dec 2019, at 06:47, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> Agree!
> 
> On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:21:36 AM UTC+3:30, TonyM wrote:
> Mohammad,
> 
> I was curious when I saw that myself. However even using something like 
> [!is[system]] generates a new false entry.
> 
> This needs a Fix
> 
> Tony
> 
> On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 8:07:07 AM UTC+11, Mohammad wrote:
> I got what you mean Mark!
> 
>  So this way always ONE tiddler which has not such field will be included. 
> 
> Very confusing!  :-)
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

> Happy to contribute. Personaly I prefer open as possible and close down only 
> if necessary.

I think we all do.

> I have had substantial online community development experience.

Great. 

> If there must be moderators I recommend as soft touch as much as possible. 

I think it’s more about being consistent, transparent and respectful. Effective 
moderation should be all but invisible.

> As I said before if you take away responsibility people tend to be less 
> responsible.

I have a sense you’re getting at something here. If you’re talking about the 
recent change to moderation permissions, I think it’s clear that that was a 
mistake, but the main observation is that it caused confusion for users, and 
that’s why I changed it as soon as I discovered the problem.

> If we have a team of moderators I suggest an independent private group so in 
> rare occasions of issues and contention it can be discussed offline a little 
> more frankly without accidently offending people.

I’d much, much prefer not to have a private group. Transparency and openness 
are critical, we can’t sacrifice them to avoid accidentally offending people; 
we do that by being respectful and putting ourselves in the other persons shoes.

> Such a team should ultimately publish guidelines rather than laws. The more 
> black and white the rules, the more complex rules need to be to avoid 
> unforscean consequences or freeze out creative collaboration.

What would be the distinction between a guideline and a law?

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] *** It is the time to be Generous ***

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Diego

> And finally, Jeremy! I dont think there is currently a way to directly 
> support him/tiddlywiki. 

The best way to support me is by hiring me commercially through my company 
Federatial https://federatial.com . Most of my current 
work is performing custom development of solutions based on TiddlyWiki, with 
some advisory/consultancy work. For some clients I also offer a seamless 
cloud-based implementation of TiddlyWiki running on Amazon Web Services.

Best wishes

Jeremy 

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Re: [tw5] Google Group Tags... Notes on utility & moderation?

[Jeremy Ruston]

> 
> I could be wrong, but it looks like the feature has already been turned off. 
> I did feel that the original list of tags was too broad.

It sounds like tagging is classified under the same “moderation” permission 
that governs the ability to pin posts. 

We could revert the change, but perhaps the solution here is to appoint some 
more group managers. The top 10 posters according to Google Groups are below. 
Eric is already a group manager, but it might be good if maybe 3 or 4 of these 
people volunteered for the role.
TonyM
Mohammad
TiddlyTweeter
Mark S
Arlen
Eric
A Gloom
PMario
(me)
Jed (inmysocks)
See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki 
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki>

The group managers would:
Help Eric with moderating posts flagged by Google as spam
Pin and unpin threads
Compile pinned anthology posts summarising important announcements and 
discussions
And perhaps use whatever other useful moderation features may be lurking under 
the surface of Google Groups
It also seems like we need to be more transparent about the rules and 
conventions we’re following to manage the group. I’d suggest adding a tiddler 
to tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/> in which we describe our approach 
(for example, guidelines about when to pin a thread, or a thread from last year 
where I posted about the need to criticise ideas rather than people). Perhaps 
we actually need two: one called “Moderation Policies” focusing on the role of 
group managers and one called “Code of Conduct” focusing on the standards of 
behaviour we expect from everyone in the group.

I’d welcome any advice/thoughts from people who have experience of other online 
communities. I’m sure we can do a better job overall, and I suspect more formal 
roles in the community will be a part of it.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> 
> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 4:55:32 AM UTC-8, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
> In another thread ...
> 
> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> * Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the 
> argument that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as 
> to who could see that a thread had been pinned
> * We should agree on general rules for what threads might qualify for being 
> pinned. To me, pinning would start with urgent announcements (e.g. if 
> discovered a serious bug in a release and wanted to warn people to upgrade), 
> important on-going informational threads like “Newbies start here”
> 
> Ciao Jeremy
> 
> In another thread 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/gWtX7uGi2QQ/xg6sv0PICQAJ> we 
> discussing user v. admin privileges re PINS. 
> 
> Here I want to ask about TAGS.
> 
> First I just want to check IF you are aware that at the moment any user can 
> both add or delete TAGS on any post?
> 
>   +  In a way its v. good in that missing tags get added. 
>+ Its good that an original author who has not added them may have them 
> added by an enthusiastic user
> 
>   -  in another way its not ideal as these don't get documented and the 
> numbers could get vast...
>   -  I see no place user added tags get listed. 
> 
> For example, this post I gave tags: "question GoogleGroup tags" 
> 
> Tags have proved very useful for finding things here. But I'm not sure, 
> without moderated addition, they are optimal.
> 
> Best wishes
> TT
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 15:14, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ok, that's the single line, which is put at the top instead of into the 
> step-by-step directions:
> 
> If you already know GitHub <https://tiddlywiki.com/#GitHub>, note that 
> documentation updates must be directed to the tiddlywiki-com branch
> 
> I don't know what it means by "directed to the tiddlywiki-com branch."

That paragraph is intended for people who know GitHub, hence the introduction. 
For people following the instructions in this tiddler everything is taken care 
of automatically.

> 
> Does that mean my branch is a sub-branch of the tiddlywiki-com branch? Or do 
> I call my branch tiddlywiki-com ?

You’d clone the repo (which gives you all the branches in the repo), and then 
add a new branch that was based on the tiddlywiki-com branch. You shouldn’t 
call the branch tiddlywiki-com, either use a short descriptive name, or use a 
numbering system.

> For most of us, Github is not really very friendly. It often gives messages 
> that are confusing and counter-intuitive. We need all the help we can get.

That’s why those instructions exist for making changes through the GitHub web 
interface. The idea is that users following the instructions don’t need to 
understand anything about branches etc.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:51:45 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Mark
> 
>> On 6 Dec 2019, at 14:48, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki > <>> wrote:
>> 
>> The change to the documentation system itself was only documented with a 
>> single line. Or maybe not even that. I don't know what it means to work on 
>> the documentation branch. Do I make a branch below the documentation branch, 
>> or call my own branch by that name?
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, the tiddler, 
>> 
>> Improving TiddlyWiki Documentation
>> 
>> 
>> was not updated to reflect the changes.
>> 
>> Thanks!
> 
> That tiddler was indeed updated back in January when we introduced the 
> change. From the perspective of the person making the PR the only thing that 
> changed was that the PRs should now target the “tiddlywiki-com” branch (hence 
> the docs update). All the good changes are in the background: now when I 
> merge a PR it automatically triggers a rebuild of tiddlywiki.com 
> <http://tiddlywiki.com/> whereas in the past I needed to run the update from 
> my computer, and it took a considerable time.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:16:47 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> A couple of thoughts:
>> 
>> * Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the 
>> argument that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as 
>> to who could see that a thread had been pinned
>> * We should agree on general rules for what threads might qualify for being 
>> pinned. To me, pinning would start with urgent announcements (e.g. if 
>> discovered a serious bug in a release and wanted to warn people to upgrade), 
>> important on-going informational threads like “Newbies start here”
>> * Generally I think it might be interesting to experiment with more use of 
>> pinned threads that are updated by an admin (e.g. we could have a thread 
>> “Announcements December 2019” that a volunteer like (say) Mohammad might 
>> undertake to update on a regular basis)
>> * As to plugin announcements, maybe the route to the widest audience is to 
>> put them on tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/>. For a year now we’ve 
>> had the ability to do near instantaneous updates to tiddlywiki.com 
>> <http://tiddlywiki.com/> just by merging a pull request. It’s a shame we 
>> haven’t seen more use made of this; for the first time, tiddlywiki.com 
>> <http://tiddlywiki.com/> is editable by anyone who can create a PR
>> * We can appoint as more group managers if we need to
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>>> On 6 Dec 2019, at 09:45, TonyM gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bit of a storm in a tea cup
>>> 
>>> I had never pinned anything before. Found I could and assumed it was 
>>> private. Two other pins occurred then I found out it was public and started 
>>> a pin exit plan.
>>> 
>>> As far as I can see this has being the extent of pins in the last year or 
>>> more so, with respect, I suggest education before restricting or dictating.
>>> 
>>> This is only my opinion but I have seen dozens of 

Re: [tw5] Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 14:48, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> The change to the documentation system itself was only documented with a 
> single line. Or maybe not even that. I don't know what it means to work on 
> the documentation branch. Do I make a branch below the documentation branch, 
> or call my own branch by that name?
> 
> As far as I can tell, the tiddler, 
> 
> Improving TiddlyWiki Documentation
> 
> 
> was not updated to reflect the changes.
> 
> Thanks!

That tiddler was indeed updated back in January when we introduced the change. 
From the perspective of the person making the PR the only thing that changed 
was that the PRs should now target the “tiddlywiki-com” branch (hence the docs 
update). All the good changes are in the background: now when I merge a PR it 
automatically triggers a rebuild of tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/> 
whereas in the past I needed to run the update from my computer, and it took a 
considerable time.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:16:47 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> A couple of thoughts:
> 
> * Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the 
> argument that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as 
> to who could see that a thread had been pinned
> * We should agree on general rules for what threads might qualify for being 
> pinned. To me, pinning would start with urgent announcements (e.g. if 
> discovered a serious bug in a release and wanted to warn people to upgrade), 
> important on-going informational threads like “Newbies start here”
> * Generally I think it might be interesting to experiment with more use of 
> pinned threads that are updated by an admin (e.g. we could have a thread 
> “Announcements December 2019” that a volunteer like (say) Mohammad might 
> undertake to update on a regular basis)
> * As to plugin announcements, maybe the route to the widest audience is to 
> put them on tiddlywiki.com <http://tiddlywiki.com/>. For a year now we’ve had 
> the ability to do near instantaneous updates to tiddlywiki.com 
> <http://tiddlywiki.com/> just by merging a pull request. It’s a shame we 
> haven’t seen more use made of this; for the first time, tiddlywiki.com 
> <http://tiddlywiki.com/> is editable by anyone who can create a PR
> * We can appoint as more group managers if we need to
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On 6 Dec 2019, at 09:45, TonyM gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Bit of a storm in a tea cup
>> 
>> I had never pinned anything before. Found I could and assumed it was 
>> private. Two other pins occurred then I found out it was public and started 
>> a pin exit plan.
>> 
>> As far as I can see this has being the extent of pins in the last year or 
>> more so, with respect, I suggest education before restricting or dictating.
>> 
>> This is only my opinion but I have seen dozens of forums fail by the 
>> overzelouse slippery slope arguements that gradually disable features, 
>> create moderator roles where none were necessary, all due to perceived only 
>> possibilities.
>> 
>> As soon as you remove member responsibility you stop them taking 
>> responsibility.
>> 
>> By the way my two pins received substantial contributions as a result, to a 
>> community wide need.
>> 
>> Please solve problems by education first, not reducing things to an 
>> imaginary lowest common denominator.
>> 
>> Sincerly
>> Tony
>> 
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> 
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Re: [tw5] TiddlyWiki starting time is sooooo slow

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Florian

Do you have a large number of tiddlers in your wiki?

The startup time under Node.js hasn’t had much optimisation attention, and I 
think there’s quite a lot of scope to improve things.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:33, Florian Cauvin  wrote:
> 
> On my RaspberryPi 3 with Raspian and NodeJs:
> 
> $ time tiddlywiki --version
> 5.1.21
> 
> real 1m2,309s
> user 1m2,727s
> sys 0m0,511s
> 
> 
> Once TiddlyWiki is "loaded" it works well and is responsive but >1 minute 
> to start up? Is that normal???
> 
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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Jeremy Ruston]

Another interesting sync adaptor would be one that retrieved and stored 
tiddlers via the Wordpress API. The attraction is that WordPress hosting is 
highly commoditised, being readily available and cheap. It should be possible 
to store tiddlers as “Pages”, and to inherit WordPress’s very smooth handling 
for media and attachments.

https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/ 


Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 07:24, bimlas  wrote:
> 
> There are two things that I think can be used for online storage:
> 
> On the one hand, the GitHub saver could be upgraded to save the tiddlers one 
> at a time using the datafolder format instead of a large HTML (so you 
> wouldn't have to wait minutes to save, just wait for one tiddler to save, 
> like the Node server) work). This way, the wiki would be completely online, 
> because when we save the changes, there would always be a commit that 
> triggers the HTML wiki generation, so we could open it and modify it on 
> GitHub without ever having to store it on our own machine.
> 
> My other idea is that Disqus, or a similar messaging system, can be used to 
> store the tiddlers that we could access through the API.
> 
> For the time being, these are just ideas, but I will write them down to 
> remember them and to give others ideas to complement.
> 
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Re: [tw5] Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

A couple of thoughts:

* Pinning should never have been globally available. I appreciate the argument 
that no great harm was done, but it evidently created confusion as to who could 
see that a thread had been pinned
* We should agree on general rules for what threads might qualify for being 
pinned. To me, pinning would start with urgent announcements (e.g. if 
discovered a serious bug in a release and wanted to warn people to upgrade), 
important on-going informational threads like “Newbies start here”
* Generally I think it might be interesting to experiment with more use of 
pinned threads that are updated by an admin (e.g. we could have a thread 
“Announcements December 2019” that a volunteer like (say) Mohammad might 
undertake to update on a regular basis)
* As to plugin announcements, maybe the route to the widest audience is to put 
them on tiddlywiki.com . For a year now we’ve had the 
ability to do near instantaneous updates to tiddlywiki.com 
 just by merging a pull request. It’s a shame we 
haven’t seen more use made of this; for the first time, tiddlywiki.com 
 is editable by anyone who can create a PR
* We can appoint as more group managers if we need to

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 09:45, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Bit of a storm in a tea cup
> 
> I had never pinned anything before. Found I could and assumed it was private. 
> Two other pins occurred then I found out it was public and started a pin exit 
> plan.
> 
> As far as I can see this has being the extent of pins in the last year or 
> more so, with respect, I suggest education before restricting or dictating.
> 
> This is only my opinion but I have seen dozens of forums fail by the 
> overzelouse slippery slope arguements that gradually disable features, create 
> moderator roles where none were necessary, all due to perceived only 
> possibilities.
> 
> As soon as you remove member responsibility you stop them taking 
> responsibility.
> 
> By the way my two pins received substantial contributions as a result, to a 
> community wide need.
> 
> Please solve problems by education first, not reducing things to an imaginary 
> lowest common denominator.
> 
> Sincerly
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Pin Unpin Posts

[Jeremy Ruston]

Just to add that Google Groups doesn't appear to support a separate permission 
setting for pinning; as far as I can tell from poking around in the admin 
settings, anyone with posting permission can pin posts.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 5 Dec 2019, at 15:14, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow. That is useful. How did I miss that? I think it's just that my 
> expectations were so low ...
> 
> Maybe this should be pinned at the top ;-)
> 
>> On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 7:11:44 AM UTC-8, PMario wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 3:45:56 PM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>> 
>>> In an ideal world, everyone could pin their own favorite thread, and it 
>>> would be pinned ONLY in their own feed.
>> 
>> That's what "stars" are for. You can star stuff per thread or per reply. I 
>> use this mechanism since my first post to this group. 
>> 
>> On the left sidebar in the web-ui there is a "Starred" button, which only 
>> shows my starred threads. 
>> 
>> The "Filter" dropdown provides a filter that let's me search "posts I 
>> started" and "posts I did reply to". 
>> 
>> That's absolutely useful. 
>> 
>> have fun!
>> mario
> 
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Re: [tw5] To Google Group Owner - Jeremy?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

I had a quick look at what Google mean by a “Collaborative Inbox”: it’s for 
customer support agents to assign messages to specific handlers for response, 
and for keeping track of those responses.

Changing the nature of our primary discussion forum would be a massive change 
to make, and so you should expect that a good deal of discussion would be 
needed so that everyone else buys into the change. Requesting such a huge 
change without any background explanation is never going to succeed

In this case, I can’t see that the change would suit us. This is a flexible 
discussion forum/mailing list, not a simple Q ticketing system. Even if we 
did want a Q system, we’d surely go with something like Stack Overflow (which 
obviously doesn’t support assigning questions to be answered by specific 
individuals).

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> On 4 Dec 2019, at 11:33, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
> 
> Ciao TonyM
> 
> What would the purpose of this proposed change be?
> 
> Best wishes
> TT
> 
> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 01:16:55 UTC+1, TonyM wrote:
> Is it possible for your to review the google Group Settings and consider 
> setting TiddlyWiki to a Collaborative inbox.
> 
> If possible on a Non Google Suit Group -
> https://support.google.com/a/answer/167430?hl=en 
> 
> More commentary about this can be found on net
> It may change the look of the forum a little but will make more features 
> available.
> 
> Make sure your group type is "Collaborative inbox." 
> 
> Sign in to Google Groups .
> Click My groups.
> Choose a group.
> Near the top right, click Manage group. 
> On the left, click Information  Advanced.
> Next to "Select a group type," click the Down arrow .
> Choose Collaborative inbox.
> Click Reset this group.
> In the box that pops up, click Reset group
> You may then want to add a few trusted people some extra moderation rights to 
> help develop out use of Google Groups.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Taking Node Server to the next level

[Jeremy Ruston]

There have been quite a few experimental syncadaptors over the years. Some of 
them come back from a simple GitHub search:

https://github.com/search?q=syncadaptor

I went through the first couple of pages and found:

* an old syncadaptor for CouchDB: https://github.com/cjxgm/tearly/
* a syncadaptor for GitHub: https://ustuehler.github.io/tw5-github/ 
* another old syncadaptor for GitHub: 
https://github.com/kpe/tw5-github-syncadaptor/
* a syncadaptor for SoLID linked data stores (see https://solid.mit.edu/): 
https://github.com/linonetwo/solid-tiddlywiki-syncadaptor

Another syncadaptor that I'd love to see is one that stores tiddlers in an 
online Google Sheet. Done right, one would be able to seamlessly switch between 
editing the same data within TiddlyWiki and via the Google Sheet user interface.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 2 Dec 2019, at 07:29, Jed Carty  wrote:
> 
> 
> It is stored locally on the hard drive like other node wikis, the difference 
> is that this is stored in some database files instead of individual tiddler 
> files. It is not localStorage or a browser based solution.
> 
> If you use the browser based version of pouchdb it is generally built on top 
> of indexeddb or websql which are just localStorage. It doesn't have any 
> magical fixes and isn't any more persistent than the localstorage plugin. In 
> browser it is just localStorage with a slightly different interface and data 
> model on top of it.
> 
> To put this online you would end up just duplicating noteself I think.
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Re: [tw5] SonicPi, TiddlyWiki and OSC?

[Jeremy Ruston]

The video of our talk about Joe has just been published:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUji_DlXjm8 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUji_DlXjm8>

Best wishes

Jeremy.




> On 10 Nov 2019, at 12:44, PMario  wrote:
> 
> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 6:29:19 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> ...
> Sam and I presented our work at a keynote at CodeMesh 2019 yesterday in Joe’s 
> honour along with Robert Virding, one of the co-inventors of Erlang with Joe. 
>  I’ve copied some photos below, and will post the video here when it is 
> available.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the video. 
> 
> -m
> 
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[tw5] Job vacancy at Anna Freud NCCF working with TiddlyWiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

There’s an interesting job opening for someone with experience of TiddlyWiki at 
the Anna Freud National Centre for Children and Families in London.

The AFNCCF trains youth workers across the UK and the world using a system of 
manuals based on TiddlyWiki.

The job opening is for a “Network and Digital Content Officer” who will be 
working on the manual among other technologies.

Here’s the AFNCCF's tweet about it:

https://twitter.com/AFNCCF/status/1198919881468592128 


To find the details you have to click through to their job search engine and 
search for the word “digital”:

https://www.annafreud.org/vacancies/ 

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Query: Is showing of a LITERAL "backtick" impossible in a WikiText code block?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi TiddlyTweeter

You can use single backticks literally within code blocks:

This is a 

```
Code block`with a tick
```

If you define a code block run with double backticks then you can use literal 
single backticks within it:

A ``code run with a tick` like this ``

Best wishes

Jeremy.



> On 25 Nov 2019, at 15:31, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
> 
> Email repeat ...
> 
> I was wondering: HOW you would show a "backtick" inside a WikiText "code" 
> block. I guess you can't?
> 
> What is the easiest way round the issue?
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Best wishes
> TT
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: BUG? -- In Editor For Type: "image/x-icon"

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi TiddlyTweeter

> There appears to be a (cosmetic, but CONFUSING) bug when editing Favicons 
> (image/x-icon).

The bitmap editor doesn't know how to edit .ico files because they are not 
ordinary images; they pack multiple images into a single file. The editor 
converts the image to a PNG when an attempt is made to edit it. You'll need to 
edit your .ico files with a separate editor that properly understands the 
format.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> Replication ...
> Open for editing a Tiddler of Type: "image/x-icon"
> Click the button to "Clear image to solid colour" and make a choice ...
> Result ...
> 
> 3. The Tiddler Type auto-changes to unwanted "image/png"
> 
> Checked on TW 5.1.21 online. 
> 
> Best wishes
> TT 
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Re: [tw5] [TW5] How to show all modified or created tiddles before saving?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Siniy-Kit

> Hi. I use single-file tiddlywiki.html for making mini-sites (many static 
> pages). I want make static pages only from tiddles I have modified or created 
> before saving. How can i get $list of this kind of tiddlers?

The “haschanged” operator filters tiddlers that have been modified since the 
wiki was loaded:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#haschanged%20Operator 


So you should be able to use something like [all[tiddlers]haschanged[]] to get 
a list of changed tiddlers for rendering.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
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Re: [tw5] Cannot edit tiddlers (Node.JS Version)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Jett

Thanks for the report. Do things work if you use a different browser than 
Chrome? Are you using the CodeMirror plugin in TiddlyWiki? Are you using any 
Chrome extensions?

Many thanks,

Jeremy

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> On 20 Nov 2019, at 16:59, Jett V  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey folks,
> 
> I am having an unusual problem with TiddlyWiki that I need help solving. I 
> use the Node.JS version of TiddlyWiki to maintain a wiki for my fantasy 
> series, and I'm running into a strange problem. As of around last week, I can 
> no longer edit tiddlers in my wiki. I can pull up the Wiki, edit the title of 
> tiddlers, and even click inside the text entry box at specific spots as if 
> ready to input text, but no matter what I type in the keyboard, no new text 
> appears. I've confirmed the issue is specific to TiddlyWiki, and I'm not sure 
> if anyone has encountered any situations where this can occur and how to fix 
> it. 
> 
> I'm using version 5.1.13 accessed via Node.JS and Google Chrome. Any ideas 
> what might be causing the issue? Thank you for any assistance.
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Re: [tw5] [TW5] AWS Plugin and external modules

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Phil

You can use a construction like this to choose the right implementation:

var xhr = $tw.browser ? XMLHttpRequest : 
require("$:/path/to/my/polyfill").XMLHttpRequest;

And then you'd use xhr as the XMLHttpRequest object

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 14 Nov 2019, at 02:56, Philip Wonski  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jeremy,
> 
> Following up on this, I believe I have imported the module without issue 
> (verified by checking the index.js output of  ``--build lambda`` ). 
> 
> However, testing the Lambda in AWS still throws an error.
> 
> It seems the issue is that my javascript macro that makes the AJAX call is 
> actually just using the built-in httprequest capability within TW5. As such, 
> the AWS console is telling me the variable is undefined in a bunch of 
> tiddlers (tiddlers listed at the bottom of this message). 
> 
> So, forgive me if this is a bit of a newbie question, but how would I go 
> about making the variable definition global so that TW itself has a 
> definition for this type of request? 
> 
> AWS error with tiddlers using httprequest (note $:/sandbox/myjax_json.js is 
> my javascript macro... it works well in the browser): 
> 
> {
>   "errorType": "ReferenceError",
>   "errorMessage": "XMLHttpRequest is not defined",
>   "trace": [
> "ReferenceError: XMLHttpRequest is not defined",
> "at Object.exports.httpRequest 
> ($:/core/modules/utils/dom/http.js:27:13)",
> "at MacroCallWidget.exports.run ($:/sandbox/myjax_json.js:42:13)",
> "at MacroCallWidget.Widget.evaluateMacroModule 
> ($:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js:215:21)",
> "at MacroCallWidget.Widget.getVariableInfo 
> ($:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js:133:14)",
> "at MacroCallWidget.execute 
> ($:/core/modules/widgets/macrocall.js:52:23)",
> "at MacroCallWidget.render 
> ($:/core/modules/widgets/macrocall.js:32:7)",
> "at Widget.renderChildren ($:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js:390:15)",
> "at Widget.render ($:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js:75:7)",
> "at $tw.Wiki.exports.renderTiddler ($:/core/modules/wiki.js:1054:13)",
> "at Command.subCommands.s3-rendertiddler 
> ($:/plugins/tiddlywiki/aws/command.js:110:33)"
>   ]
> }
> 
> 
> Phil 
> 
> 
>> On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 9:48:30 PM UTC-5, Philip Wonski wrote:
>> Thank you Jeremy and Tony for the replies (and noted on the separate Dev 
>> group). 
>> 
>> Appreciate the tips, I will work off of the examples. I've been itching to 
>> do this sort of thing to extend the use of 'TW on AWS' as a static site 
>> generator. 
>> 
>> Will report back with any worthwhile documentation for other learners. 
>> 
>> Phil 
>> 
>>> On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:37:42 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> Hi Phil
>>> 
>>> As you say, the best solution is to wrap the xmlhttprequest JS file into a 
>>> tiddler, and then require that tiddler.
>>> 
>>> The basic approach is to use a  “tiddlywiki.files” file to turn the raw JS 
>>> file into a tiddler. This mechanism includes the possibility of adding a 
>>> prefix/suffix to the text of the file:
>>> 
>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#tiddlywiki.files%20Files
>>> 
>>> There are a number of examples of third party modules wrapped for 
>>> TiddlyWiki in the core repo:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/tree/master/plugins/tiddlywiki
>>> 
>>> In particular, the jszip plugin contains an example of publishing a module 
>>> as a tiddler, and the AWS plugin contains an example of using it.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 17:27, Philip Wonski  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Group-
>>>> 
>>>> 1) I have a TW that does some frontend AJAX using simple XMLHttpRequest in 
>>>> the browser. 
>>>> 
>>>> 2) If I try to render the AJAX tiddler in Lambda, it throws the common 
>>>> node error since node requires a separate package xmlhttprequest.
>>>> 
>>>> 3) My question is, how best to include this dependency in the Lambda. I 
>>>> tried first with npm locally, then zipping the updated package.json plus 
>>>> the node_modules folder with xmlhttprequest module included. 
>>>> 
>>>> 3b- this still throws an error

Re: [tw5] Re: The last word in Saving?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

> Even on the desktop, TiddlyDesktop has complications that most every-day 
> users would find unacceptable. 
> If you close out a single-file window, the only way to get it back is to 
> close out ALL your windows, and the 
> instance (which may need to be killed with the process manager), and then 
> restart. That's too much, 
> when all you wanted was to clear the clutter out of your toolbar.

I think you're talking about one of the limitations of using wiki folders with 
TiddlyDesktop (which is rather experimental); windows of single-file wikis can 
be closed/reopened as expected.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Anyone good with bookmarklets? QUick config of tiddlywikis

[Jeremy Ruston]

> I did a little research such as here 
> 
>  and is seems plausible that we could make a bookmarklet that would allow me 
> to drop a specified json file onto a tiddlywiki from the bookmarks I would 
> not even need to go looking for my json file to drag and drop it, just select 
> from the bookmarks. If we can point to json files on our local disk or on a 
> server such as provided by TiddlyServer it would be an easy way to distribute 
> tools, tiddlers, data, plugins and macros to one or more wikis.

A JavaScript bookmarklet cannot in general read files from the local disk. I’ve 
knocked up a macro that does the next best thing: it can generate bookmarklets 
containing an arbitrary set of tiddlers identified by a filter.

This example generates a bookmarklet labelled “MyTiddlers” containing all the 
tiddlers with the tag “HelloThere”:

<>

Drag the bookmarklet link to the browser address bar to install it, and then 
visit another TiddlyWiki. Clicking the bookmarklet will inject the payload 
tiddlers into the target wiki.

The text of the macro:

\define save-as-bookmarklet-href()
(function() {
$tw.wiki.addTiddlers($(json-tiddlers)$);
})()
\end

\define save-as-bookmarklet(title,filter)
<$wikify name="json-tiddlers" output="text" text="""<$text text=<>/>""">
encodeuricomponent[]addprefix[javascript:]] 
}}}><$text text=<<__title__>>/>

\end

Let me know how you get on,

Best wishes

Jeremy


> On 11 Nov 2019, at 10:36, Ton Gerner  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tony,
> 
> Thanks. Yes I remember this work. Do you think it could point to a file or 
> contain a payload to drop on a wiki?
> 
> I will look more closely but I need to depend on the templates. Good start 
> though
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't know.  My knowledge of Javascript is almost nihil. I just used 
> Stephan Hadrek's idea, see 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/tiddlywiki/cUUXichiwdU/8gTL3lsO0MUJ
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ton
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] A DisplayTiddler Variable for use in multiple transclusions.

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Is the following an example of a lateral variable?

No, that’s just using a variable to update the value in a tiddler. It’s a 
perfectly useful technique.

> If there were a way to change the value in tiddlername without a trigger do I 
> not have a lateral variable?

No. For a tiddler value to change, there has to be a trigger.

Hence the need for lateral variables.

Best wishes

Jeremy



> 
> regards
> Tony
> 
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Re: [tw5] Abridged summary of tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com - 50 updates in 14 topics

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Richard

I think that’ll be the updog.co  link, there appears to have 
been a bit of a tug of war with Google recently on it.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 4 Nov 2019, at 23:40, Richard Drake  wrote:
> 
> Gmail gave a warning about one of the links here 
> 
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 02:26,  > wrote:
> tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Google Groups 
> 
>
> 
>
> Today's topic summary  <>
> View all topics 
> 
> Classic Notes: a small tool to create semantic notebox 
>  - 1 Update
> Is there a way to generate a set of dynamical variables? 
>  - 4 Updates
> TiddlyWiki upgrade  - 2 
> Updates
> confused about UTC term used for the dates 
>  - 3 Updates
> Looking for ideas on how to use TiddlyWiki to track my reading habits. 
>  - 2 Updates
> TW too slow to use at only 8 MB 
>  - 8 Updates
> Philosophy & TW -- Title v. Content 
>  - 2 Updates
> CSS question regarding the html  tag 
>  - 3 Updates
> Changeable uri for embedded pdf-files 
>  - 1 Update
> Variable equals itself plus something else 
>  - 3 Updates
> Experiment: GG layout from TW. Request for feedback. TEST #1 
>  - 5 Updates
> How do I access an embedded binary file? 
>  - 4 Updates
> Tiddly Commander filter  
> - 11 Updates
> $edit-text type="date" in UTC format ? 
>  - 1 Update
>  <>Classic Notes: a small tool to create semantic notebox 
> 
> 
> TonyM mailto:anthony.mus...@gmail.com>>: Oct 30 
> 06:41PM -0700 
> 
> Mohammad,
>  
> Love your work. I need a degree in what Mohammad has produced just to make 
> full use of it all.
>  
> Do you really know this is compatible with Tiddlywiki5.1.5+ ?
>  
> Thanks
> Tony
> ...more 
> 
>  
> Back to top  <>Is there a way 
> to generate a set of dynamical variables? 
> 
> 
> Stephan Hradek mailto:stephan.hra...@gmail.com>>: 
> Oct 30 02:04AM -0700 
> 
> Background of my question: For a colleague who often needs to write 
> standard mails I've created a TiddlyWiki where one can create 2 tiddlers. 
> One with the standard mailtext using place holders. ...more 
> 
>  
> "Mark S." mailto:throa...@yahoo.com>>: Oct 30 07:16AM 
> -0700 
> 
> I've read your post several times now, but I'm still unsure what you want.
>  
> Perhaps you could show the list code you are using, and then highlight the 
> output, indicating
> what you would desire the ...more 
> 
>  
> Xavier Cazin mailto:caz...@gmail.com>>: Oct 30 03:21PM 
> +0100 
> 
> Hi Stefan,
>  
> I'm almost certain that filters hold the answer to your questions.
> Especially since they include operators like subfilter[], then[] and else[]
> —and also *~run* constructs. ...more 
> 
>  
> TonyM mailto:anthony.mus...@gmail.com>>: Oct 30 
> 06:37PM -0700 
> 
> Stephan,
>  
> I am a little confused about you question as well.
>  
> I do not really like the notation of the placeholders
>  
>  
> This is not helpful, the notation should not be the problem, perhaps its 
> ...more 
> 
>  
> Back to top  <>TiddlyWiki 
> upgrade  
> 
>   
> Magenta Ward mailto:war...@sunypoly.edu>>: Oct 30 
> 08:24AM -0700 
> 
> Hello, 
>  
> Yes, we are testing out the ADA compliance. As of right now we are getting 
> a low score, we are hoping that this per-release version will give it a 
> little boost. 
>  
> - Magenta Ann
>  
> ...more 
> 
>  
> TonyM mailto:anthony.mus...@gmail.com>>: Oct 30 
> 06:24PM -0700 
> 
> Magenta,
>  
> We have a few community members that champion or require accessibility 
> features themself. I would suggest publishing the results of your analysis 
> and requesting help in a new thread. ...more 
> 
>  
> Back to top  <>confused about 
> UTC term used for the dates  
> 

Re: [tw5] A DisplayTiddler Variable for use in multiple transclusions.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mario

I’m not sure I’m following all of this thread, but it looks like you’re wanting 
variables to work fundamentally differently than they do at the moment. Some of 
your examples require lateral variables, which is to say variable values that 
are inherited by widgets from their older siblings instead of just from their 
parents. That’s a big change, and requires the refresh mechanism to be 
redesigned, but it’s one I’m interested in for TWX because it’s the only way 
we’ll be able to do things like autonumbering of footnotes.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 5 Nov 2019, at 10:25, PMario  wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 11:20:58 AM UTC+1, PMario wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 11:12:12 AM UTC+1, PMario wrote:
> ... 
> Some _pseudo code_ may look like: 
> 
> \define stack-1()
> 
> <$list filter="[tag[test]]">
> 
> BUT if we add eg:  
> <$set name="stack-1" ... 
> 
> <$push name="stack-1" value={{!!value}}/>
> 
> 
> I think, we are doomed!
> 
> May be stacks must be all uppercase eg: STACK-1 so we can check and see, 
> there is something special going on. 
> 
> I think, the name stack is somewhat misleading, since we can do: 
> [enlist[STACK-1]nth[3]] or stuff like this, which is "array handling"
> 
> -m
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] A DisplayTiddler Variable for use in multiple transclusions.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> I had not seen your reply until now. I found the heading in 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#Transclusion%20in%20WikiText  Generated Widgets that 
> hinted at what you suggest. Could this be included in the use of the 
> transclude widget as well? (not just `{{ target }}`

Yes; the {{}} syntax is a shortcut for writing <$tiddler>/<$transclude>.

> 
> By the way the use of StoryTiddler variable helps me identify the equivalent 
> of the displayTiddler in the original thread. 

Right, that’s a bit easier, we already set that in the story river.

> I like your idea of "making the value of each variable be a list, and append 
> the new values at each transclusion" but there is still value on setting a 
> callingTiddler variable, that is changed with each transclusion, because it 
> will always provide the last call, which is useful in its own right, without 
> interrogating the list(s). This would appear in dumpvariables etc... and be 
> somewhat diagnosticly meaningful. 

OK, I think you’re saying that you’d prefer to have each item available as both 
a single value, and a list/stack of accumulated values.

> Here are some thoughts to use this development, to introduce a useful macro 
> or widget, at the same time as the above solution is created, because the 
> proposal requires something like this anyway. Basically exposing a common 
> logical function to users.

As discussed by others, we already have the ability to perform push/pop 
operations.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> To build your suggested list perhaps we can introduce a list "push and pop" 
> widget(s) or macro and use that. Since such a push and pop could be useful 
> elsewhere. If you are not familiar with push and pop I mean a macro or widget 
> such as 
> <>
> that adds list item at the end (titles delimited Space for fields) newline 
> for text
> 
> A default of 
> <>
> would push the current tiddler title onto the end of the list in textreference
> 
> 
> <>
> Removes the last item from text reference regardless of what it is.
> This could allow the use of recursive loops inside transclusions ie TOC 
> equivalent. 
> It could refuse to push a tiddler title already in the "list" to stop loops
> It is a basic form of append, and can also be used for log solutions.
> 
> This could be used to push and pop a tag, list field entry, datatiddler items 
> or build a branch (field) whilst iterating a TOC and more. 
> 
> Eg a recursive process could build a branch describing each tiddler by the 
> full path to it, and save this branch/path in each tiddler, or in a data 
> tiddler. This would allow a complex hierarchy to be saved for later, even 
> when the source tiddlers change their relationships.
> 
> There are other possibilities that I will leave out for brevity.
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 10:41:11 PM UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Tony
> 
> We could extend the transclude widget so that it sets a 
> “currentTransclusionTitle” variable with the name of the tiddler that it is 
> transcluding. We’d actually also need to set variables 
> currentTransclusionField, currentTransclusionIndex and 
> currentTransclusionSubtiddler to capture all the attributes of the 
> transclusion.
> 
> Then, in your example below, the tiddler “Second” would be able to obtain the 
> name of the tiddler from which it was transcluded.
> 
> A potential limitation is that each successive transclusion would overwrite 
> the values of those variables. We could work around that by making the value 
> of each variable be a list, and append the new values at each transclusion.
> 
> Does that make sense, and would it do what your after?
> 
> Finally, a small point, but you’ve got this construction:
> 
> <$set name="callingTiddler" value={{{ [] }}} >
> 
> It could be written more concisely as:
> 
> <$set name="callingTiddler" value=<>>
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On 2 Nov 2019, at 06:17, TonyM > wrote:
>> 
>> Folks,
>> 
>> A solution was found for this specific use case, before posting, but the 
>> Question still could do with an answer
>> Use the <> variable to find the "DisplayTiddler" regardless of 
>> the number of transclusions.
>> 
>> A reoccurring confusion of mine occurs trying to implement the following 
>> with a define rather than a set, is it possible?
>> <$set name="callingTiddler" value={{{ [] }}} >
>> 1st: 
>> {{tiddlername||Second}}
>> 
>> The value <> will be available in all nested transclusions.
>> 
>> The problem with this is you

Re: [tw5] CSS question regarding the html tag

[Jeremy Ruston]

> Most of the core icons have no type defined (image/svg+xml) AND lacks a xmlns 
> declaration (http://www.w3.org/2000/svg 
> " …)

Just to be clear, this is because the core icons are designed to be used as SVG 
elements embedded in the HTML, rather than images. The primary reason is that 
it lets us style/colour the icons at the point of using them. There’s some 
discussion of the difference here:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#Using%20SVG 

For CSS background images you’d need to use an SVG image. I don’t think there’s 
a straightforward way to convert the core images, you’d probably just need to 
do it manually.

Best wishes

Jeremy.



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Re: [tw5] How to add group for untagged tiddlers to table of contents?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Max, Sylvain,

There is an untagged[] operator that returns all tiddlers that don’t have a tag:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#untagged%20Operator 

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 3 Nov 2019, at 22:29, Sycom  wrote:
> 
> Hi 
> 
> Maybe [... !has[tags]] ?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sylvain
> @sycom
> 
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Re: [tw5] [TW5] AWS Plugin and external modules

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Phil

As you say, the best solution is to wrap the xmlhttprequest JS file into a 
tiddler, and then require that tiddler.

The basic approach is to use a  “tiddlywiki.files” file to turn the raw JS file 
into a tiddler. This mechanism includes the possibility of adding a 
prefix/suffix to the text of the file:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#tiddlywiki.files%20Files

There are a number of examples of third party modules wrapped for TiddlyWiki in 
the core repo:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/tree/master/plugins/tiddlywiki 


In particular, the jszip plugin contains an example of publishing a module as a 
tiddler, and the AWS plugin contains an example of using it.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> On 31 Oct 2019, at 17:27, Philip Wonski  wrote:
> 
> Hi Group-
> 
> 1) I have a TW that does some frontend AJAX using simple XMLHttpRequest in 
> the browser. 
> 
> 2) If I try to render the AJAX tiddler in Lambda, it throws the common node 
> error since node requires a separate package xmlhttprequest.
> 
> 3) My question is, how best to include this dependency in the Lambda. I tried 
> first with npm locally, then zipping the updated package.json plus the 
> node_modules folder with xmlhttprequest module included. 
> 
> 3b- this still throws an error as the lambda is not finding the module. 
> Presumably I am violating "everything is a tiddler" and need my js inside the 
> index.js. 
> 
> 3c- so it seems better approach is to require the module as a tiddler like 
> var XMLHttpRequest = require("$:/mymodules/xmlhttprequest").XMLHttpRequest;
> 
> 
> But I am new to creating modules in TW, so before I waste hours with trial 
> and error I figured I'd make sure I'm on the right track. How should my 
> original xmlhttprequest.js be modified so that it works as a tiddler like 
> $:/mymodules/xmlhttprequest? 
> 
> 
> Sincere thanks,
> 
> Phil 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki roadmap

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Everyone

The “Road Map” tiddler was added at some point because somebody had asked for 
it. Of course, it’s troublesome to remember to update it, so it’s fallen by the 
wayside.

> I think the roadmap today is driven by the needs of Jeremys business projects 
> and the pull-requests by insistent contributors. 

That’s broadly correct. I think there’s probably at least four categories:

* Pull Requests from others
* Fixes/features in response to requests here on the mailing list
* Bug fixes
* Changes arising from Federatial’s commercial work for clients (much of which 
is in plugins of course)

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
> As you can see in the PR-list BTC 
>  has a lot of 
> open PRs that all contain keyboard related improvements. Some of them have 
> been rewritten 3 times already.
> 
> I myself am most interested atm in improving the TOCs, the navigation 
>  and saving and 
> retrieving stories  in 
> a "compatible" way. 
> 
> There is also an important one that deals with paragraph handling 
>  and TW html generation 
> in general. ... all of them are really low level! 
> 
> The last example won't be even seen by users, but will make a big difference 
> for the whole project. Especially simplify personalisation and theming. 
> 
> --
> 
> As TT pointed out, very often it is better to start with plugins, than call 
> for core implementation. ... We basically have to maintain core functions 
> "for ever". So they should be "bullet proof" and backwards compatible, 
> because they will be very hard to remove.
> 
> Experimenting with my interests mentioned above, I did find out, that a lot 
> more tests are needed. IMO implementing "low level function" in the TW 
> navigation mechanism is like "spine surgery".  We have to be sure, what's 
> going on. ... On the way I did also find some problems #4349 
>  and some fixes #4353. 
> 
> 
> So if we want to improve "the core" we must have the "big picture" in mind. 
> New features need to be as useful as possible for everyone. 
> 
> just some thoughts
> mario
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: How to include some JavaScript code in a Node.js TiddlyWiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

Sorry to be late to the thread, and glad you’ve got things working. Just to add 
that the special /*\ comment block at the top of JS files is an alternative to 
having to have a separate .meta file.

There was also a reference to tiddlywiki.files — that’s a mechanism for turning 
existing files into tiddlers without modifying them. It’s typically used to 
include 3rd party code. See:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#tiddlywiki.files%20Files

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 1 Nov 2019, at 16:19, MaxGyver  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> I fixed some bugs and have created a repo at GitHub 
>  and a demo page 
>  for this 
> plugin.
> 
> Just in case somebody already wants to test it.
> 
> I still have to make a proper plugin out of it.
> 
> Best regards,
> Max
> 
> 
> Am Montag, 28. Oktober 2019 23:25:09 UTC+1 schrieb MaxGyver:
> Thanks!
> 
> I'm going to post it for sure. I'm still working on some details and 
> additional functions:
> - If you scroll down half a tiddler, which one should be edited when you 
> press "e"!?
> - It would be nice if you could navigate also through the menus in the 
> sidebar (open/recent tiddlers and so on)
> - If you can navigate through tiddlers and menus, some highlighting of the 
> current object is necessary
> - Maybe I can wrap this tiddler in a right plugin with some settings and 
> documentation
> 
> But I will share it before everything is finished because it could be useful 
> for some people as it is right now.
> 
> Best regards
> Max
> 
> Miha Lunar schrieb am Mo., 28. Okt. 2019, 22:14:
> Glad to hear it!
> 
> The navigation plugin you made seems cool, is it going to be posted anywhere? 
> :) 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] A DisplayTiddler Variable for use in multiple transclusions.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

We could extend the transclude widget so that it sets a 
“currentTransclusionTitle” variable with the name of the tiddler that it is 
transcluding. We’d actually also need to set variables 
currentTransclusionField, currentTransclusionIndex and 
currentTransclusionSubtiddler to capture all the attributes of the transclusion.

Then, in your example below, the tiddler “Second” would be able to obtain the 
name of the tiddler from which it was transcluded.

A potential limitation is that each successive transclusion would overwrite the 
values of those variables. We could work around that by making the value of 
each variable be a list, and append the new values at each transclusion.

Does that make sense, and would it do what your after?

Finally, a small point, but you’ve got this construction:

<$set name="callingTiddler" value={{{ [] }}} >

It could be written more concisely as:

<$set name="callingTiddler" value=<>>

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 2 Nov 2019, at 06:17, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> A solution was found for this specific use case, before posting, but the 
> Question still could do with an answer
> Use the <> variable to find the "DisplayTiddler" regardless of 
> the number of transclusions.
> 
> A reoccurring confusion of mine occurs trying to implement the following with 
> a define rather than a set, is it possible?
> <$set name="callingTiddler" value={{{ [] }}} >
> 1st: 
> {{tiddlername||Second}}
> 
> The value <> will be available in all nested transclusions.
> 
> The problem with this is you always need to close the set widget. This means 
> every time you edit or add something to the tiddler you have to make sure 
> changes that need it are inside the set.
> 
> Is there a way to 
> \define callingTiddler() something
> to achieve the same result?
> 
> The problem is whatever you place in a macro definition gets evaluated when 
> its displayed not before 
> 
> Of course I can use;
> \define callingTiddler() actual tiddlername
> With a literal tiddler name but then each tiddler needs a unique setting and 
> you can't "import variables", make it global or any other method I can think 
> of
> 
> Why?
> I really want an answer to support a range of methods
> You can see in the above the use of `{{tiddlername||Second}}`! here I can 
> transclude Second with tiddlername acting as a parameter for "Second" to use, 
> but I still want access to the callingTiddler in that transclusion and other 
> nested in "Second"
> I would love global a method to capture for subsequent use in transclusions 
> the current "Display Tiddler"/callingTiddler - ie the one on the screen 
> before transclusion, but as many of you know the currentTiddler changes 
> according to context so it can't be used.
> 
> Note: I went looking in the tiddler $:/config/ui/ViewTemplate to see how I 
> may set a displayTiddler value only to find the variable storyTiddler which 
> is functionally what I need. Though it does nothing to help me define a 
> variable that will store the current tiddler indefinitely.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: confused about UTC term used for the dates

[Jeremy Ruston]

Just to add that the date format for "1994-11-05T13:15:30Z" is called ISO-8601:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

The reason that TW uses the 20191031080056713 format is that it is easier to 
use for computations and comparisons.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 00:10, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Why ?,
> 
> The type setting in edit-text sets the html type values and is not aware of 
> tiddlywiki date formats. You can use them but you will need to work to use 
> this format dates because you can't simply use javascript as you would on a 
> typical html page.
> 
> The format used by tiddlywiki is more precise and numeric only. As a result 
> you can test if one is greater than the other to compare which was 
> first/last. The other date formats need further formatting to do any such 
> comparisons. Look for the date picker plugin to select dates in tiddlywiki 
> format. You can use the html format but you will need to translate it to 
> something similar to do any processing on the dates. You can also make a date 
> stamp button for now using the Now macro.
> 
> Using the view widget, format date and Now macro you can make tiddlywiki 
> dates look like html dates.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 7:05:24 PM UTC+11, Sebastian Ovide wrote:
>> Hi Tony
>> 
>> thanks for that.
>> 
>> I get the concept. My question was about the format that TW is using in the 
>> tiddlers. 
>> 
>> example. 
>> 
>> <$edit-text field="my_date" type="date"/>
>> <$edit-text field="my_datetime" type="datetime-local"/>
>> 
>> will create these fields:
>> created: 20191030080335371
>> modified: 20191031080056713
>> my_date: 2019-10-02
>> my_datetime: 2019-10-03T11:01
>> title: AA
>> using the the format by the browser using UTC (so your logic applies). 
>> 
>> so my specific question is about the reasoning behind choosing that format 
>> rather than the standard UTC ?
>> 
>> Just curious.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>>> On Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:19:58 UTC, TonyM wrote:
>>> Sebastian
>>> 
>>> UTC does not refer to the format as you seem to believe, it refers to the 
>>> dates time zone. UTC is the universal time held in Greenwich.
>>> 
>>> It's easy to be confused with this but the trick is to store the date time 
>>> in UTC but when that time is displayed is converts to local time, using 
>>> your browser locality settings and time zone. This allows your wiki to 
>>> respond to local daylight savings, or when you work in another time zone, 
>>> or you import tiddlers from another time zone.
>>> 
>>> See https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#Date%20Fields
>>> 
>>> Once you grasp that, return with any more detailed questions.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>> 
>>>> On Thursday, 31 October 2019 04:24:54 UTC+11, Sebastian Ovide wrote:
>>>> Hello all
>>>> 
>>>> TiddlyWiky stores dates in a format referred as UTC. Example: 
>>>> 20191030170157357. But the UTC is very common to see everywhere looks like 
>>>> 1994-11-05T13:15:30Z 
>>>> 
>>>> any idea on the reason of choosing that format ?
>>>> 
>>>> thanks
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Fantasy: Instantly create link

[Jeremy Ruston]

As a historical note, at the start of TW5 development in 2010/11 I was 
determined to make it a WYSIWYG editor. The main problem I ran into was that at 
that time the so-called "contentEditable" feature was unreliable and 
inconsistent across different browsers. That's different now, happily.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLElement/contentEditable

The next problem was architectural: that using "contentEditable" produces HTML. 
The problem of reliably converting arbitrary HTML to wikitext is quite thorny, 
and I wanted to avoid getting bogged down in it.

Finally, while working through it, I realised that even with a WYSIWYG editor, 
we'd still need separate view and edit modes. Consider a tiddler that contains 
some text with a transclusion somewhere within it. In view mode, the reader 
sees a seamless block of text, with no indication of the presence of the 
transclusion. Imagine that the user wants to change the transclusion to 
reference a different tiddler. For that, the user needs to see a visual 
representation of the transclusion itself so that they can interact with it and 
edit it. Given the need for transclusions to be invisible in normal use, all of 
that implies a separate mode in which widgets are editable rather than rendered 
as usual.

So, straightforward blocks of text containing formatting like bold and italic 
could be directly edited without needing to flip into edit mode, but some 
actions would require it.

Allowing direct editing of rendered output presents some difficulties, too. 
With the above example, imagine if the user selects text that spans the text of 
the transclusion and the surrounding text and then tries to delete it. Perhaps 
that would translate into deleting text from two separate tiddlers, but that 
seems counterintuitive for users.

A recent commercial project I've undertaken as Federatial 
(https://federatial.com) for law firm client required a WYSIWYG editor, but 
they were happy to use HTML as their content format, so I have developed a very 
simple HTML WYSIWYG editing widget based on https://quilljs.com. At some point 
I'll polish it up for more general use.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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> On 23 Oct 2019, at 14:57, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> At the heart of it all is a certain discontent with the two-mode aspect of 
> TW.
> 
> Everything Mat asks for is already available in edit mode.
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: TW 5.1.22prerelease: the tabs macro with tc-vertical class: Is this an issue?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I’ve just commited a different fix, setting overflow: auto on the container:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/46c90af308015242fa0314d85f1524727e2aa7e5
 


Let me know how it works for you. (The prerelease build will be done in about 8 
minutes),

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 20 Oct 2019, at 06:13, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> Further input:
> 
> I realized if I change the below css
> 
> Edit the $:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/base 
>  as 
> below
> find the below part (1)
> 
> .tc-tab-content.tc-vertical  {
> word-break: break-word;
> change it as below (2)
> 
> .tc-tab-content.tc-vertical  {
>  /*   word-break: break-word;*/
> 
> With 1, I have annoying word break in tables inside vertical tab
> With 2, I have the text overflow in vertical tab when I use multi column 
> layout as explained in the first post of this thread!
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, October 19, 2019 at 7:08:30 PM UTC+3:30, Mohammad wrote:
> The attached tiddlers reproduce an issue of overflow in TW 5.1.22
> 
> It seem the text in vertical tab overflows when a column layout is used.
> 
> Download the attached .json and import into
> 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/ 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/ 
> 
> 
> 
> and then look at the
> 
> Vertical tabs/multicols Tiddler.
> 
> 5.1.21 works fine but in 5.1.22p the tabs cannot display text correctly and 
> it overflows.
> 
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
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Re: [tw5] Red mistake in Kiwi browser on Android if "Include the target tiddler" in address bar is on.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Siniy-Kit

The only component of TiddlyWiki that includes the text “disconnect” in its 
JavaScript source is highlight.js, which suggests that it is that library that 
is failing. Are you using that plugin? If so, can you try again with it 
uninstalled.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 19 Oct 2019, at 07:04, Siniy-Kit  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi! I use Kiwi browser with "overwrite" extension on my Android (chrome clone 
> +extensions ability)  if I load empty Tiddlywiki and enable "Include the 
> target tiddler" in address bar, after save and edit try I get red window  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is no word 'disconnect' in Tiddlywiki code, and no console in this 
> android browser, so am not able to solve this problem. If somebody know 
> another android browser which can automatically overwrite files without (1) 
> (2)(3)  in their names, and where generating static tiddlers work, write here 
> please. Or somebody knows how to modify Tiddliwiki code to make it work with 
> Kiwi browser?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Tables in TW 5.1.22

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

That was a bug, just fixed in this PR:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/4328

The updated version will be up at https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease in about 7 
minutes.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 18 Oct 2019, at 09:11, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am using the latest 5.1.22.
> The tables in this version seems to have double border at left side!
> 
> Do you have the same experience?
> 
> Have a look at 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease
> 
> 
> --Mohammad
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Re: [tw5] Tiddlywiki, Accessibility & Ally

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Steve

I suspect that they mean that the TW5’s HTML tag doesn’t include a “lang” 
attribute specifying the ISO code of the language in which the page is written.

I’ve made an update for v5.1.22 to set to the lang attribute according to the 
currently set language:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/05a3e1ad36c2fb383dd4975a578f95e8a6c3f325
 


If you want en-US, you’ll need to install the optional US English translation 
plugin.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 15:39, Steven Schneider  wrote:
> 
> Greetings:
> 
> We have deployed a Tiddlywiki in a production environment at SUNY Polytechnic 
> Institute (! - getting this to happen is another story altogether...).
> 
> We use Ally  to score documents for accessibility. I've 
> been told the ifle does not have a language set.
> 
> Anyone know how to set the language in tiddlywiki?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> //steve.
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [tw5] TW 5.1.22 pre + Plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

You’ll need to import this tiddler into your empty wiki:

https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#%24%3A%2Fconfig%2FOfficialPluginLibrary 


Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 16 Oct 2019, at 17:17, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> I have downloaded TW 5.1.22pre Empty!
> Go to $:/ControlPanel
> Plugins
> Get More Plugins
> 
> Nothing is appeared to install!
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Make range widget update according to given field

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi David

Please could you post the code you referred to in your original post? I have a 
feeling that the draft thing might be a red herring, and that this may be about 
avoiding refresh cycles that destroy and recreate the range widget while it is 
being used (which is a version of a classic TW5 gotcha: that one cannot use an 
edit widget to edit a field of the tiddler in which the edit widget appears).

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 15 Oct 2019, at 19:42, David Allen  wrote:
> 
> So I came up with an inelegant solution that solves the problem.
> 
> To clarify the situation I had, I had a list of tiddlers that would only show 
> five at a time, and would scroll using a range widget and a left/right button 
> combination.  The range widget scrolls by 1, the left/right buttons scroll by 
> five.  The issue I had was the list and buttons were working correctly, but 
> the range widget was not updating according to the input of the buttons.
> 
> The first solution I had was to move the field being modified to another 
> tiddler, which I called Scratch_Pad.  This did not work, but it was 
> convenient for me for later on.
> 
> Second solution I had was to change the default value of the range widget to 
> equal Scratch_Pad!!scroll_index, which is the same value the widget and the 
> buttons modified.  It worked, but the slider was very difficult to use as it 
> would de-select itself every time I moved the slider, requiring me to 
> re-click the slider and move it one-by-one every time I wanted to change the 
> value.
> 
> The solution that finally worked is a bit wonky.  I read in another thread 
> that modifying a draft of a tiddler works smoothly for the range widget.  The 
> problem I had was having the default value of the range widget be the same 
> field as the value the range widget was trying to modify.  Here's what I did 
> instead:
> 
> Set the tiddler the range widget modifies to be Draft of 'Scratch_Pad', 
> keeping the field as scroll_index
> Set the default it pulls from to be Scratch_Pad!!scroll_index, NOT the draft
> Set the value the buttons base their calculations on to Draft of 
> 'Scratch_Pad'!!scroll_index.  This makes sure the buttons will move the value 
> last updated by the range widget.
> When the buttons calculate the new values, make sure they update the 
> scroll_index fields in both the Scratch_Pad AND Draft of 'Scratch_Pad' 
> tiddlers to update the range widget's position and make sure the value it 
> next calculates is accurate
> Base the horizontal list's position on the Draft of 'Scratch_Pad' value.
> 
> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 7:10:40 PM UTC-5, David Allen wrote:
> Right now I have a range widget that controls a scroll_index field.  It 
> increments by 1.  I also have two buttons that increment and decrement the 
> same scroll_index by 5.  Problem is, when I use the buttons, the range widget 
> does not update to reflect the modified scroll_index value, and I'd like it 
> to do so.  Is there a way to force the range widget to reflect the 
> scroll_index value?
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Typing lag in <$edit-text/> widget

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Hubert

I've added support for v5.1.22 for the presence of a field called 
"throttle.refresh" triggering the same throttling process as for draft 
tiddlers. You can try it out here:

https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease#RefreshThrottling

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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> On 11 Oct 2019, at 14:44, Hubert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Just to add, sliders created using the <$range/> widget are now also smooth 
> as butter, as long as the tiddler being updated is an unsaved draft, eg:
> 
> <$range tiddler="Draft of 'edit-range'" min=0 max=10 default=5 increment=0.5/>
> 
> I've tested this on desktop and mobile. Even on desktop, removing the few 
> seemingly imperceptible miliseconds of choppiness made a huge difference. 
> This seems to make it clear that the benefits of delayed refresh go so much 
> farther and are not limited to smooth typing experience alone.
> 
> Regards,
> Hubert
> 
>> On Friday, 11 October 2019 11:51:25 UTC+1, Hubert wrote:
>> Hi Jeremy,
>> 
>> Thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.
>> 
>>> We could add an additional field that we check for along with the 
>>> “draft.of” field, such as “refresh.slow” as suggested in the thread above. 
>>> I don’t think that’s going to be particularly convenient in lots of 
>>> situations (e.g. ensuring that $:/temp/search gets that field). Another 
>>> possibility might be to use a special prefix e.g. $:/dampened/ or perhaps 
>>> $:/volatile/.
>> 
>> I would be happy with either solution so long as such a non-draft tiddler is 
>> excluded from instant refreshes. Perhaps a tiddler having a field 
>> refresh.slow could be referenced in $:/temp/search in italics (similar to 
>> how shadow tiddlers are in bold)?
>> 
>> May I ask whether this is something that could be considered for the next 
>> release?
>> 
>>> I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the draft tiddler 
>>> notification at the bottom of the screen?
>> 
>> Yes, that's exactly it. I've found it's defined in 
>> $:/core/ui/PageTemplate/drafts and have already overwritten it accordingly, 
>> removing only the single "Draft of..." tiddler I'm editing using 
>> <$edit-text/> widget in another tiddler.
>> 
>>> I may have missed something in the thread earlier, but you can keep a 
>>> perpetual draft by not opening it directly, instead editing it via an 
>>> edit-text widget from another tiddler.
>> 
>> This is exactly the approach I'm taking now, but I failed to express it as 
>> concisely.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Hubert
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Friday, 11 October 2019 11:25:09 UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> Hi Hubert,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for finding this thread from 2015:
>>> 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/hlIvXE6jRys/discussion
>>> 
>>> As you note, I think we are still in the same place: on lower powered 
>>> devices, it would be useful to be able to extend the refresh dampening 
>>> mechanism to selectively apply to tiddlers that are not drafts.
>>> 
>>> The code that checks for tiddlers that should be included in refresh 
>>> dampening looks for the presence of the “draft.of” field:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/startup/render.js#L82-L88
>>> 
>>> We can change that logic, but we need to keep it simple because it will be 
>>> executed every time any tiddler is modified. So, for example, using a 
>>> filter would be ruled out.
>>> 
>>> We could add an additional field that we check for along with the 
>>> “draft.of” field, such as “refresh.slow” as suggested in the thread above. 
>>> I don’t think that’s going to be particularly convenient in lots of 
>>> situations (e.g. ensuring that $:/temp/search gets that field). Another 
>>> possibility might be to use a special prefix e.g. $:/dampened/ or perhaps 
>>> $:/volatile/.
>>> 
>>> You asked
>>> 
>>>> Now I have to figure out how I can prevent this open text tiddler from 
>>>> being constantly referenced in a red notification rectangle
>>> 
>>> I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the draft tiddler 
>>> notification at the bottom of the screen?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> and to prevent TW from saving it, because once it exits editing mode the 
>>>> lag is reintroduced.
&g

Re: [tw5] Wrongly word-wrap in table cell

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I think it’s a bug. The CSS for vertical tabs sets `word-break: break-word` on 
.tc-tab-content.tc-vertical which is then inherited by the tab content. It was 
introduced here:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/7e71fcfab80bed9aed4389eea386fb2036cc4a85
 


I think it was a mistake so I’ve removed it for v5.1.22.

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/81f1e6af4e5920c6ff41e7f08171bfddc1b26dfc
 


Best wishes

Jeremy.



> On 11 Oct 2019, at 08:37, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> It seems Tiddlywiki table wrongly wrap words!
> While in a table there is no need to wrap, TW renders table with wrapping 
> word for example it shows optional as
> 
> option
> al
> 
> 
> Is this a bug or it has been set intentionally?
> 
> Example
> 
> see https://kookma.github.io/Shiraz/#Shiraz%20Tutorial 
> 
> 
> open Images tab and then look at the two other tabs Image Polaroid which 
> render table correctly with no word-wrap and Image Slidein which renders 
> wrongly and wrap the words.
> 
> Cheers
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Typing lag in <$edit-text/> widget

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Hubert,

Thank you for finding this thread from 2015:

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/hlIvXE6jRys/discussion

As you note, I think we are still in the same place: on lower powered devices, 
it would be useful to be able to extend the refresh dampening mechanism to 
selectively apply to tiddlers that are not drafts.

The code that checks for tiddlers that should be included in refresh dampening 
looks for the presence of the “draft.of” field:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/startup/render.js#L82-L88
 


We can change that logic, but we need to keep it simple because it will be 
executed every time any tiddler is modified. So, for example, using a filter 
would be ruled out.

We could add an additional field that we check for along with the “draft.of” 
field, such as “refresh.slow” as suggested in the thread above. I don’t think 
that’s going to be particularly convenient in lots of situations (e.g. ensuring 
that $:/temp/search gets that field). Another possibility might be to use a 
special prefix e.g. $:/dampened/ or perhaps $:/volatile/.

You asked

> Now I have to figure out how I can prevent this open text tiddler from being 
> constantly referenced in a red notification rectangle

I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the draft tiddler 
notification at the bottom of the screen?


> and to prevent TW from saving it, because once it exits editing mode the lag 
> is reintroduced.

I may have missed something in the thread earlier, but you can keep a perpetual 
draft by not opening it directly, instead editing it via an edit-text widget 
from another tiddler.

Best wishes

Jeremy



> 
> Regards,
> Hubert
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, 11 October 2019 09:09:34 UTC+1, Hubert wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> My TW now has 63k entries, and, in a meeting the other day,I was able to look 
> up entries about as fast as people asked.
> 
> That's impressive. Did you use a search bar or your own  widget? 
> I'm particularly interested if it was the latter.
> 
> But that was using a Kindle Fire, which might have a stronger processor
> than a motorola phone.
> 
> I don't believe you've mentioned what browser you're using. My tests were on 
> an old version of FF that I'm not upgrading because it
> can still use TiddlyFox.
> 
> It might be worth experimenting with different browsers. I believe browser 
> makers have wide latitude in how they implement JS internals.
> 
> I'm now at a Windows PC with i7 processor, 8 gigs of RAM and running latest 
> FF. The lag is still there, albeit of course not that annoying as on mobile. 
> Same issue on Chrome.
> 
> 
> On Thursday, 10 October 2019 16:29:56 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
> In my case, I kept the tags but removed all usage of the tag filter operator. 
> My TW now has 63k entries, and, in a meeting the other day,
> I was able to look up entries about as fast as people asked. But that was 
> using a Kindle Fire, which might have a stronger processor
> than a motorola phone.
> 
> I don't believe you've mentioned what browser you're using. My tests were on 
> an old version of FF that I'm not upgrading because it
> can still use TiddlyFox.
> 
> It might be worth experimenting with different browsers. I believe browser 
> makers have wide latitude in how they implement JS internals.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 8:00:47 AM UTC-7, Hubert wrote:
> Sounds counter-intuitive, but I've just checked it nevertheless.
> 
> Nope, 400 is much worse in my case.
> 
> The circumstantial evidence I have so far is pointing to tags...
> 
> On Thursday, 10 October 2019 15:49:30 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
> I you know, I think experienced this before, and commented. Try resetting the 
> timeout back to 400 and reloading.
> 
> After setting the TO to 6, it feels slower when typing into the input box.
> 
> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 5:53:07 AM UTC-7, Hubert wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>  
> Just testing now, and setting it to 6 doesn't seem to impact the speed 
> with regular editing nor inside a form box.
> 
> Have you reloaded the wiki after setting it to 6? It might not take 
> effect until reloaded.
> 
> Is there anything special about your TW file? Have you tested on an empty ?
> 
> No and yes, respectively.
> 
> The lag on mobile may be more or less noticeable, which could even depend on 
> the size of the wiki and/or on the number of tiddlers currently open. I lack 
> the knowledge to draw conclusions but I do suspect it has to do with the 
> refresh mechanism.
> 
> BTW. my wiki is just slightly over 5 megs.
> 
> Regards,
> Hubert
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 21:15:04 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
> I've mentioned typing speeds in the past. I never found that the draft speed 
> setting really changed anything one
> way or the other. Maybe it makes a difference on Mac but not on Android.
> 
> Just testing now, and setting 

Re: [tw5] How to set font size for editor?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

> On 5 Oct 2019, at 17:25, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> When we talk about accessibility, the first thing that comes to my mind is 
> font size.
> 
> You can change the font size of displayed tiddlers. You can change the 
> overall font size of everything else.
> 
> But is there a way to just change the editor font? Changing the overall font 
> means that the title and sidebar look wrong.

There’s indeed no UI in “theme tweaks” for setting the body editor size. 
Hubert’s CSS works but is brittle. I’ve pushed a mod for v5.1.22 here to add a 
new class "tc-edit-texteditor-body” to the body editor:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/89716bb81d68b9c68d3c0fd2f2de96afad1b086a

That makes it possible to change the editor fonts with something as simple as :

.tc-edit-texteditor-body {
font-size: 30px;
font-family: serif;
}

> For that matter, I'm surprised that the editor and display fonts aren't the 
> same -- it's usually the same person using them both!

The ability to change the editor font was introduced by Mario a couple of years 
ago:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/2867 


I think the rationale is that a monospaced editor font can make it easier to 
work with wikitext markup.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: NodeGUI Hosted Tiddlywiki?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Everyone

Electron and nw.js are alternate takes on marrying the Node.js runtime with the 
Chromium browser, and make it possible to create native apps that integrate web 
browser functionality.

node-gui is subtly different: it combines the Node.js runtime with the Qt cross 
platform GUI framework: https://www.qt.io/ , and it doesn’t 
integrate a web browser.

The promise of node-gui is that it can be much lighter weight than Electron or 
nw.js (browsers are huge these days), and be a bit closer to the metal in that 
Qt is a fairly low level API.

If one were to write a TiddlyDesktop-like thing in node-gui it therefore 
wouldn’t be able to integrate the browser view, but instead would rely on an 
external browser.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> On 7 Oct 2019, at 03:43, coda coder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tony
> 
> 
> Am I wrong but is nodegui for coders only?
> 
> 
> Yes. It's akin to NW.js (and Electron). So consider it a "TiddlyDesktop 
> alternative" and you'll be on track. right now it's still too early in the 
> dev cycle from what I've read, but the mission sounds interesting.
>  
> 
> Keep sharing your discoveries, and if possible add your own assessment, 
> rather than just a link, even if the assessment comes later.
> 
> An assessment would be better coming from Arlen, I think - 
> TiddlyServer-backed TWs running in NodeGUI would be a nice all-round fit, I 
> think. And besides, I really don't have the time these days.
> 
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] currentTiddler and tabs macro

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

The reason the content of Test01 displays differently in the tiddler “Tabs 
Macro Example” is because the current tiddler is “Tabs Macro Example”, which is 
inherited by the transcluded content of Test01. When displaying Test01 on its 
own the current tiddler will be “Test01”.

In other words, the tabs macro is a red herring. If you copy and paste the 
content of Test01 directly into “Tabs Macro Example” you’ll see the same output.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 6 Oct 2019, at 17:22, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeremy,
> Sorry for my bad English composition!
> 
> I have created an example
> 
> http://hirad.tiddlyspot.com/#Tabs%20Macro%20Example:%5B%5BTabs%20Macro%20Example%5D%5D%20Test01%20macro%2Fcode-link
>  
> <http://hirad.tiddlyspot.com/#Tabs%20Macro%20Example:%5B%5BTabs%20Macro%20Example%5D%5D%20Test01%20macro%2Fcode-link>
> 
> 
> look at what tiddler Test01 displays when it is opened by itself and when it 
> is opened inside tabs!
> 
> Here Test01 calls a user defined macro (code-link) to show the raw text 
> (code) of a tiddler.
> 
> The macro code-link uses the variable currentTiddler.
> 
> This currentTiddler shows different results in different situation.
> 
> I have used red color to highlight the difference.
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:56:46 PM UTC+3:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Mohammad
> 
> I’m afraid I'm not quite following. The tabs macro intentionally doesn’t 
> affect the current tiddler.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> When you use a tiddler with tabs macro Tiddlywiki refers to currentTiddler 
>> to the last tiddler in which rendering is occurred!
>> 
>> This make macros with currentTiddler as input parameter break and work 
>> wrongly!
>> 
>> Isn't it better to remove this from tabs macro?
>> 
>> Example
>> see this macro
>> 
>> \define code-link(tiddler)
>> <$set name=selected-tiddler value="$tiddler$" emptyValue=<> >
>> <$link to=<>/>
>> <$codeblock language={{{[get[type]]}}} 
>> code={{{[get[text]]}}}/>
>> 
>> \end
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Use it inside a tiddler say myTiddler tagged demo with no input parameter!
>> 
>> Now in another tiddler put the below script
>> 
>> <>
>> 
>> You will see wrong result!
>> 
>> 
>> --Mohammad
>> 
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[tw5] Re: Q: Import Folder and Subfolders

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Cryoshakespeare

>
> I'm creating my raw tiddlers on github and then downloading them. While it 
> would be nice to organize them in a folder structure in github, I can't 
> seem to easily import the downloaded repository without going through each 
> folder and selecting the tiddlers. Is there a way tiddlywiki can 
> automatically search folders and subfolders when importing? Thanks!
>

Importing via drag and drop in the browser only works with individual 
files, and not with folders.

But if you've got a folder full of tiddler files it's relatively 
straightforward to build them into a wiki using the Node.js command line 
interface.

Can you expand on the workflow you're aiming for?

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] currentTiddler and tabs macro

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I’m afraid I'm not quite following. The tabs macro intentionally doesn’t affect 
the current tiddler.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> When you use a tiddler with tabs macro Tiddlywiki refers to currentTiddler to 
> the last tiddler in which rendering is occurred!
> 
> This make macros with currentTiddler as input parameter break and work 
> wrongly!
> 
> Isn't it better to remove this from tabs macro?
> 
> Example
> see this macro
> 
> \define code-link(tiddler)
> <$set name=selected-tiddler value="$tiddler$" emptyValue=<> >
> <$link to=<>/>
> <$codeblock language={{{[get[type]]}}} 
> code={{{[get[text]]}}}/>
> 
> \end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use it inside a tiddler say myTiddler tagged demo with no input parameter!
> 
> Now in another tiddler put the below script
> 
> <>
> 
> You will see wrong result!
> 
> 
> --Mohammad
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Questions about the mail archives

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Cd.K

> Thank you.
> 
> On this scale, it easily fits into the main memory of a computer. 

Indeed, or in a GitHub repo.

> BTW: How do you create your quotes with a vertical stroke in blue 

I read and respond to the group using my email client (macOS Mail.app).

> I sit 42 cm in front of the computer and had expanded in the Mail Archive 
> twice. Then the mail archive loses the link formatting. If I expand only 
> once, I can comfortably open the GG post via a link.

I don’t use the mail archive, are there advantages over the GG web interface?

> This topic is finished, but I am not offered a close button although I have 
> created the topic. I can close foreign topics partially, but not always. 
> 
> Can someone explain the logic behind the close?

I don’t generally use the GG web interface and so don’t see those buttons.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Questions about the mail archive

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Cd.K

I have all the tw and twdev group messages archived in my email. The mbox file 
for the main TW group is 2.15GB and contains 103,320 messages, and the mbox for 
the TWDev group is 249MB and contains 24,349 messages.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 2 Oct 2019, at 19:19, 'Cd.K' via TiddlyWiki  
> wrote:
> 
> 20800 topics TiddlyWiki Google Group mailarchive  
> 
> 4200 topics TiddlyWiki Dev Google Group mailarchive 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what sizes the mbox files of the archives have?  
> Does anyone know how many messages/posts are in the archives? 
> 
> Regards
> Cd.K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Splash screen "breaks" decrypt prompt for wiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi HC
> I was experimenting with a splash screen, and copied the splash screen from 
> tiddlywiki.com, it worked but not pretty. I removed the code for the image 
> and then the login prompt for my wiki changed. the square is gone and 
> everything is moved to the left. luckily the decrypting process works fine. 

What were the steps you took to remove the splash screen?

The screenshot makes it look as though the boot CSS styles are missing. These 
are embedded directly in the TiddlyWiki HTML file, and should be available to 
the browser even if JS were disabled. So it looks as though those styles were 
somehow also accidentally removed — either by removing the $:/boot/boot.css 
tiddler, or by manually editing the HTML file.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> B ut strangely this persist even after I have deleted the splashscreen. the 
> decrypting work, but it is a bit worrying that things is still changed. 
> 
> Any ideas why?
> 
> and do anyone know if there is any guides to style the decrypt prompt / 
> login? Though not important, I don't find it pretty.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: TW5 on nodejs via https and certificate-based user authentication using nginx as proxy

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Pietro

Glad you've got it sorted out. If you're able to write up the procedure it 
would be great to include it on tiddlywiki.com.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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> On 2 Oct 2019, at 07:01, Pietro Abano  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Donald,
> 
> thank you for your hint: I did not see the IP address there indeed. Obviously 
> not good.
> 
> So I was gonna try your suggestion (removing the Host $host parameter) but 
> then I spotted my own typing error in the /etc/nginx/sites-enabled/default 
> file.
> One would think the nginx would not start at all or at least warn me, because 
> it checks the configs for syntax errors I guess, it happens all the time, but 
> not this simple typo ("Ugrade" instead of "Upgrade"!)
> 
> Everything works great now, the wiki is accessible only to clients with 
> proper cert and its content is saved and updated accordingly.
> 
> You simply made my date by making me go through this one more time. 
> In case you'd want to see how it's done with client certs I can provide you 
> (or anyone interested) with all the details.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Pietro
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 4:56:00 AM UTC+2, Donald Coates wrote:
>> You'll probably get a better answer here but in the mean time: is 
>> 192.168.112.110 the address that bob shows in the settings?   On my own 
>> setup I do not have proxy_set_header Host $host so I wonder if that is 
>> causing the trouble.  I believe that is for standard http connections and 
>> not web socket.  If you look here you will see that line is not included.  I 
>> still have trouble understanding the intricacies of nginx and end up 
>> throwing shit against the wall until something sticks.
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 1, 2019 at 11:10:50 AM UTC-4, Pietro Abano wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> I could not find anything related to what I am trying to achieve here so if 
>>> it's already covered somewhere please let me know.
>>> 
>>> As much as I love Jed's amazing work on BobWiki because it changes the ball 
>>> game for TW5 completely, allowing to share and work on something with a 
>>> team, over a local network, there is one thing that I'm missing - user 
>>> authentication.
>>> 
>>> In my scenario it is not so much about who the actual individual is, only 
>>> that it should be one of the authorized users.
>>> So I thought the client certificate-based authentication would do it. I set 
>>> up a reverse proxy using nginx to handle SSL/TLS (for the web server and 
>>> the clients) and talking to a local nodejs application on client's behalf.
>>> 
>>> After some reading about nginx and tweaking my nginx configs I am finally 
>>> able to access the TW5 on nodejs via https and even authenticate to it 
>>> (actually to nginx) with client X.509 certs, but unfortunatelly I hit a 
>>> problem:
>>> can't make any changes to TW5/BobWiki over the https.
>>> 
>>> The setup: 
>>> the TW5 runs on nodejs at 127.0.0.1:8080
>>> Tiddlywiki version 5.1.21 with Bob version 1.2.4
>>> Serving on 127.0.0.1:8080
>>> 
>>> on the same host with IP of 192.168.112.110 there's nginx listening at 80 
>>> or 443 forwarding all traffic to http://127.0.0.1:8080
>>> 
>>> It appears the TW5 is not aware of any requests done from the web client, 
>>> while direct connection to nodejs works as usual.
>>> 
>>> Not being a web developer nor an experienced sysadmin (just a tinker) I 
>>> have no clue as to where to look. Is it something with my nginx 
>>> configuration, more specifically with websockets? When looking at the data 
>>> being tranferred (Chrome, Inspect, Network) e.g. when adding a new tiddler, 
>>> I don't see much going on.
>>> 
>>> I can see some websocket communication initiated by 
>>> $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/BrowserWebSocketsSetup.js which is different when I 
>>> go directly to nodejs - there I can see $:/core/module/saver in action, 
>>> while when I use the nginx-proxied access I don't see this at all.
>>> 
>>> Another symptom of the behavior is that when two users connect to the same 
>>> TW5 on nodejs, they both see any changes done by one of them in almost 
>>> real-time without refreshing the page while in ngix-proxied https access no 
>>> such on-screen update happens.
>>> 
>>> Studying the errors in Chrome I've come up with this which seems relevant:
>>> $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/BrowserWebSock

Re: [tw5] Control of node.js instance(s)

[Jeremy Ruston]

I think Bob may do what you want:

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 19:17, 'Torax Malu' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is there a known control plugin for TiddlyWiki on node.js do control the 
> server instance out of the wiki itself? I refer here primarily to stopping 
> and restarting the server without using the command-line.
> 
> thanks for a short answer.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Torax
> 
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Re: [tw5] Unpacking json plugin file - algorithms for creating tiddlywiki.files

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi David

The tiddlywiki.files mechanism is primarily intended for extracting tiddlers 
out of existing libraries, without needing to modify those files. It’s a lossy 
process (because not all the files necessarily end up in tiddlers), and it 
isn’t generally possible to reconstruct the original files from the extracted 
tiddlers.

You may be interested in the source for the savewikifolder command which does 
what you’re trying to do but within TW5:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/commands/savewikifolder.js
 


Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 22 Sep 2019, at 02:30, David Nebauer  wrote:
> 
> I'm playing with a script that unpacks a single json plugin file to 
> individual tiddler files for installing under a node.js server. The script 
> would also create a plugin.info file and, if necessary, a tiddlywiki.files 
> file. (Note that TW is not involved in this process - the script acts 
> directly on the json file.)
> 
> I am only using a subset of tiddlywiki.files functionality at the moment - 
> just the 'tiddlers' section with the 'file' and 'fields' fields.
> 
> My question is this: is there any way of determining solely from the contents 
> of a tiddler whether its metadata should be provided via the tiddlywiki.files 
> file rather than the tiddler's own file? Another way to put that is: is there 
> an algorithm based on tiddler content that determines whether a tiddler's 
> metadata is provided via the tiddlywiki.files file rather than the tiddler's 
> own file?
> 
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Re: [tw5] What prefix for _canonical_uri?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi RA

> Trying to add FontAwesome as a plugin. The wiki is working, the plugin is 
> recognized, and it contains shadow tiddlers for each svg file.
> The only part I cannot get right is the _canonical_uri, so I get a "broken 
> image" icon in each shadow tiddler instead of an svg image.

If you’re using _canonical_uri, then the SVGs would also need to be exposed via 
HTTP. You could put them in the “files” folder of the wiki:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#Using%20the%20integrated%20static%20file%20server

If you went that route you should be able to use `files/` as the prefix.

I’d be inclined to not bother with _canonical_uri, and instead embed the SVG 
text fields as shadow tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> The documentation says "The URI can be absolute or relative to the HTML 
> document."
> What is the location of "HTML document" in case of Node.js? Is it where 
> tiddlywiki.js is, or where tiddlywiki.info is? Or the current path in the 
> shell where I'm launching the nodejs command from?
> What should I set the prefix to? Is it even possible for _canonical_uri to 
> point to a relative path that is outside the "HTML document"?
> 
> My wiki URL is
> http://:/work
> 
> The tiddlywiki command:
> nodejs /srv/TiddlyWiki5/app/tiddlywiki ++/srv/TiddlyWiki5/plugins/fontawesome 
> /srv/TiddlyWiki5/wikis/work --listen host=0.0.0.0 port=8083 
> 'root-tiddler=$:/core/save/lazy-all' 'path-prefix=/work'
> 
> Filesystem structure:
> /srv/TiddlyWiki5/
>   app/tiddlywiki.js
>   plugins/fontawesome/tiddlywiki.files
>   plugins/fontawesome/svgs/regular/*.svg
>   wikis/work/tiddlywiki.info
>   wikis/work/tiddlers/*.tid
> 
> tiddlywiki.files (cannot get the prefix right):
> {
> "directories": [
> {
> "path": "svgs/regular",
> "filesRegExp": "^.*\\.svg$",
> "isTiddlerFile": false,
> "fields": {
> "title": {"source": "basename-uri-decoded"},
> "created": {"source": "created"},
> "modified": {"source": "modified"},
> "type": "image/svg+xml",
> "_canonical_uri": {"source": "filename", "prefix": " should I put here?>"}
> }
> }
> ]
> }
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] Any way to suppress "unresponsive script" message?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

If you’re on Firefox, the details are here:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/warning-unresponsive-script 


Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 22:20, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm doing something intensive with TW, that causes a "non-responsive script" 
> message
> to come up every 10 seconds. I have to dismiss it for it to continue. Is 
> there any trick
> or platform that will just churn through the process, without assuming I need 
> to 
> be reminded every ten seconds?
> 
> Firefox, Windows 7
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
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Re: [tw5] How to get rid of dotted border after clicking on a link

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Pedruchini

It looks like you’re talking about the focus indicator provided by your browser 
to show where keyboard navigation will occur. Your browser may have options to 
hide it, otherwise you can disable it globally with CSS by creating a tiddler 
tagged $:/tags/Stylesheet containing:

```
*:focus {
outline: none !important;
}
```

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 10:40, pedruchini  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> I find that dotted line annoying on my dark background. How do I get rid of 
> it? (first screenshot)
> That dotted line is very annoying when I'm using Thomas Elmiger's details 
> plugin. (second screenshot)
> 
> I've been able to change de color of the link, but I can' t remove that 
> border (border: none;):
> 
> button.tc-tiddlylink,
> a.tc-tiddlylink {
>   text-decoration: none;
>   font-weight: 500;
>   color: #038aff;
>   -webkit-user-select: inherit; /* Otherwise the draggable attribute 
> makes links impossible to select */
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
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Re: Re: [tw5] Hitting a barrier at 36,000 tiddlers

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark,

Interesting! I’d echo the request to share the wiki if you’re able to.

Perhaps you could use the performance instrumentation tools to see if any 
filters are bottlenecks:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#Performance%20Instrumentation

In particular, after turning on performance instrumentation and restarting, 
please can you post the output of $tw.perf.log() typed in the browser developer 
console.

If it’s any comfort, I’m working with wikis with over 60,000 tiddlers without 
issues, so it’s not an intrinsic problem with the number of tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 14:53, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's slow even if non-searching tiddlers are all that is rendered.
> It's slow with only 6 other tabs open.
> It's slow even if FF has just been opened.
> It's slow even though instrumentation is off.
> It's slow even if doing a single-field match.
> 
> It's not just searching that's slow. EVERYTHING you type is slow. You sit 
> there waiting ten to 20 seconds for your last
> typed entries to appear.
> 
> 
> It could be that it's the number of tiddlers rather than the gross size of 
> the TW that matters. In which case I suppose 
> I could do some crazy design where a single tiddler contains all the words 
> that start with "a", etc. But this makes
> reverse lookups harder.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 10:28:26 PM UTC-7, TonyM wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> To fully address your experience consider if you can show or share the wiki. 
> Alternativy share some test data of an equivalent size. Also consider it from 
> a "what must it render perspective". If for example the tiddlers were all 
> listed in the table of contents and this is displayed in the sidebar this 
> will refresh every change that may effect that toc list. Hide the side bar 
> and see if its the same.
> 
> I had 12Mb files working well in TiddlyWiki Classic, so it should be good in 
> TW5
> 
> In an App I built there was a considerable difference with 5.1.20 however be 
> warned there was an accidental leaving on of "Performance instrumentation", 
> see Control Panel > Settings > Performance instrumentation - uncheck save and 
> reload.
> 
> Also a normal search that is activated for any three letter combination and 
> lists the result below may just be inappropriate for such an application. 
> Perhaps you need a enter search criteria then hit a search button, which 
> renders the results in a list, rather than an instant response popup/list. 
> 
> There is also a little gotcha with browser memory. Try with nothing else open 
> by or in a tab of the browser and see if it improves, this will give us a 
> clue to its bottle necks. Browsers also have a maximum memory usage set so 
> they do not overpower the device/computer but this is often a fixed value, 
> when you mostly work in the browser there is value making more ram available 
> to the browser especially if you have 8-16GB available.
> 
> The more you share the more we can help.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 2:19:37 PM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
> My project may have been over ambitious. But I thought there were going to be 
> some 
> improvements in 5.1.20+ that would allow for larger TW files. I currently 
> have a TW file
> with about 36,000 short dictionary definitions. Each tiddler consists only of 
> a title
> and a field, EN, with usually only 3 or four words in it. The overall size is 
> only 10 megs.
> 
> Overall, the performance is impracticably slow. Ten seconds to open a 
> tiddler. 20 seconds or more
> to do a simple search box search. As much as 25 seconds or more to close out 
> tiddlers that
> need to render a custom search. In most cases, you have to type blind because 
> the
> keystroke refresh is also incredibly slow.
> 
> I'm wondering if the performance improvements actually made it into the core, 
> or if
> my expectations were too high. Actually, the performance noticeably declined
> after the first 12,000 entries. 
> 
> At the moment it seems like I need to start over, using a data dictionary 
> instead of
> tiddlers for storage. 
> 
> Firefox, Windows 7, TW 5.1.21
> 
> Thanks!
> Mark
> 
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Re: [tw5] %2520 with URL encoding

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Gloom


> How do I get TW to URL encode spaces with %2520 (instead of %20)?  %2520 is 
> what Github encodes blank spaces in the official TW static pages' URL's.

The URLs are double encoded. The first encoding is so that we can map every 
tiddler title to a valid URL, and the second is done by the browser.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Re: Competition for v5.1.22 artwork

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

> On 17 Sep 2019, at 12:13, Mat  wrote:
> 
> 
> Good to hear. By "second one" you mean the one with the .1.22 on the side or 
> the overlapping one? (The order is different in my posts text vs the 
> attachments.)

I meant this copied below.

Best wishes

Jeremy



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Re: [tw5] Re: Competition for v5.1.22 artwork

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

I think the second one is much better. The version number could perhaps be more 
prominent by expanding it to fill more of the available space.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 17 Sep 2019, at 11:53, Mat  wrote:
> 
> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> [...]the version number be clear and readable.
> 
> 
> Thanks for input! Does any of these fulfill the requirements? (The roughness 
> is intentional - but might not be appropriate)
> 
> <5.1.22_clock_2.png>
> 
> <5.1.22_clock_3.png>
> 
>  
> 
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> <5.1.22_clock_3.png><5.1.22_clock_2.png><5.1.22_clock_2.png><5.1.22_clock_3.png>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Competition for v5.1.22 artwork

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat
> Forgive me for stating the obvious but; This symbolizes the inner essence of 
> mans existential struggle in the universe.
> 
The concept is great but I fear that at the moment it may not satisfy the first 
requirement, that the version number be clear and readable. Particularly at 
small sizes, the “5” is lost. Perhaps it could be tweaked?

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> 
> <5.1.22_clock.png>
> 
> <:-)
> 
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Re: [tw5] Re: Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> Example
> Drag and drop various tiddlers, plugins and json files and rather than hit 
> import, rename to another field and remove the plugin-type import and status 
> field and what remains is a json tiddler containing the collected tiddlers. 

I’m pretty sure that you can do this yourself with an additional view template 
segment that displays for plugin-type: import tiddlers.

> Additional suggestion for hackability
> Allow alternatives for the following to be set or selected.
> <>
> {{||$:/core/ui/ImportListing}}

I don’t want to stray into unrelated extensions of the import mechanism at this 
point, but will return to it.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> so the import process can be hacked, I want to do this a lot. :)
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 6:06:11 PM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Just to add that there’s now a warning in the import listing if a plugin will 
> require a reload.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>  That's a good indicator! I am sure the feel and look will be better by 
>> release date!
>> For example font of alert, and other visual effects.
> 
> I’m still working on it and welcome suggestions.
> 
>> I thought icon can be different, but as developers may use different icons 
>> it may not work always!
> 
> Exactly, it would be a shame to hide the plugins own icon, and I’d be 
> concerned that adding an icon wouldn’t be sufficient to communicate clearly 
> to most users.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
>> 
>> --Mohammad
>> 
>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:59:26 AM UTC+4:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> Hi Mohammad
>>> 
>>> Yep!
>>> Tiddlywiki uses a default icon for plugins!
>>> One solution is uses different one! Other as you said is to show it!
>> 
>> I’m still working on the display of plugins but in the current prerelease, 
>> there’s an indication in the plugin chooser whether a reload will be 
>> required in the text of the installation button:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:18:44 AM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote:
>>> Mohammad,
>>> 
>>> Are you simply opening them and looking to see if it contains a .js ?
>>> 
>>> With this facility soon to be available it would be nice if the plugin list 
>>> indicated such tiddlers, perhaps with an icon/ or *no reload needed
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 4:27:14 PM UTC+10, Mohammad wrote:
>>> Hi Tony!
>>> 
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Trashbin/ 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Trashbin/>
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Todolist/ 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Todolist/>
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/Shiraz/ <https://kookma.github.io/Shiraz/>
>>> - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/ 
>>> <https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/>
>>> - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/ 
>>> <https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> More from here
>>>  - https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM 
>>> <https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM>
>>>  - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/#Links 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/#Links>
>>> 
>>> --Mohammad
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 4:26:55 AM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> 
>>> What are good examples of pugins that fit this approach?
>>> 
>>> I usually distribute macros via bundle and they do not need a reload to 
>>> start with. 
>>> 
>>> To test this I am looking for plugins without .js tiddlers. But find very 
>>> few (so far). Perhaps I need a tool to add to my personal plugins wiki to 
>>> search for plugins that do not contain js?.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 6:43:52 AM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> I’m pretty excited to announce that if all goes well, one of the new 
>>> features for v5.1.22 will be the ability to dynamically load/unload plugins 
>>> without needing to refresh the page. 
>>> 
>>> The catch is that this only works for plugins that do not contain any 
>>> JavaScript modules. For plugins that do contain JS modules, the behaviour 
>>> is the same as at present, with a wa

Re: [tw5] Re: Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> What about adding to plugins requiring reload a red 
> $:/core/images/refresh-button 
> <http://192.168.1.81/Instances/PSaTSuitnew.html#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fimages%2Frefresh-button>
> with a tool tip saying will require save a reload after install.

The problem is that tooltips don’t work on mobile devices, so the policy of the 
core is to try to avoid relying on them. While we could add an icon to go 
alongside the current text it doesn’t seem an improvement.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> This provides all the information, is attention grabbing, or perhaps the 
> $:/core/images/info-button 
> <http://192.168.1.81/Instances/PSaTSuitnew.html#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fimages%2Finfo-button>
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 6:06:11 PM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Just to add that there’s now a warning in the import listing if a plugin will 
> require a reload.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>  That's a good indicator! I am sure the feel and look will be better by 
>> release date!
>> For example font of alert, and other visual effects.
> 
> I’m still working on it and welcome suggestions.
> 
>> I thought icon can be different, but as developers may use different icons 
>> it may not work always!
> 
> Exactly, it would be a shame to hide the plugins own icon, and I’d be 
> concerned that adding an icon wouldn’t be sufficient to communicate clearly 
> to most users.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
>> 
>> --Mohammad
>> 
>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:59:26 AM UTC+4:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> Hi Mohammad
>>> 
>>> Yep!
>>> Tiddlywiki uses a default icon for plugins!
>>> One solution is uses different one! Other as you said is to show it!
>> 
>> I’m still working on the display of plugins but in the current prerelease, 
>> there’s an indication in the plugin chooser whether a reload will be 
>> required in the text of the installation button:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:18:44 AM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote:
>>> Mohammad,
>>> 
>>> Are you simply opening them and looking to see if it contains a .js ?
>>> 
>>> With this facility soon to be available it would be nice if the plugin list 
>>> indicated such tiddlers, perhaps with an icon/ or *no reload needed
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 4:27:14 PM UTC+10, Mohammad wrote:
>>> Hi Tony!
>>> 
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Trashbin/ 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Trashbin/>
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Todolist/ 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Todolist/>
>>> - https://kookma.github.io/Shiraz/ <https://kookma.github.io/Shiraz/>
>>> - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/ 
>>> <https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/>
>>> - https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/ 
>>> <https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> More from here
>>>  - https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM 
>>> <https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM>
>>>  - https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/#Links 
>>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/#Links>
>>> 
>>> --Mohammad
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 4:26:55 AM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> 
>>> What are good examples of pugins that fit this approach?
>>> 
>>> I usually distribute macros via bundle and they do not need a reload to 
>>> start with. 
>>> 
>>> To test this I am looking for plugins without .js tiddlers. But find very 
>>> few (so far). Perhaps I need a tool to add to my personal plugins wiki to 
>>> search for plugins that do not contain js?.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 6:43:52 AM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>> I’m pretty excited to announce that if all goes well, one of the new 
>>> features for v5.1.22 will be the ability to dynamically load/unload plugins 
>>> without needing to refresh the page. 
>>> 
>>> The catch is that this only works for plugins that do not contain any 
>>> JavaScript modules. For plugins that do contain JS modules, the behaviour 
>>> is the same as at present, with a warning message advising the user to 
>>> reload the page.

Re: [tw5] Re: Competition for v5.1.22 artwork

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Thomas

That’s great, thank you for the first entry!

> Voilà. Attached SVG is about a third the size of the PNG. 

The current v5.1.22-prerelease banner image is just a placeholder until the 
competition is completed.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> Cheers, Thomas
> 
> 
> <5.1.22-plugin.png>
> 
> 
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> <5-1-22-plugins.svg><5.1.22-plugin.png>

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Re: [tw5] Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

> I wanted to try it on https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease 
>  so I opened the Plugin Library (the 
> second green button) and scrolled almost to the end to find the Blog plugin 
> (which is both not installed and doesn't seem to require reload). Clicking 
> "Install" makes it instead say "Reinstall". I was expecting to find the Blog 
> plugin in the installed plugin list but cannot see it there. Do I 
> misunderstand sth?

Is the blog plugin not listed in control panel after installation? It is for me 
if I repeat the steps you describe,

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> <:-)
> 
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Re: [tw5] Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

I’ve now merged the pull request so you can try out the dynamic loading of 
plugins at:

https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease

As well as installing plugins from the official plugin library you can test it 
by drag and drop installation any third party plugins that don’t include JS 
modules.

Any questions or comments welcome.

Best wishes

Jeremy



> On 13 Sep 2019, at 19:38, Mat  wrote:
> 
> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Just to be clear, this means that with the proviso above, users will be able 
> to: 
> 
> * Add new plugins from the plugin library without reloading 
> * Add new plugins via drag and drop without reloading 
> * Delete unneeded plugins without reloading 
> * Eventually, to use tools like Tinka to package plugins without requiring a 
> reload to test 
> 
> Really looking forward to this.
> 
> Will it also mean one can live-edit a plugin? Or is it the same limitation as 
> with macros, i.e that it refreshes the page? 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> <:-)
> 
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Re: [tw5] Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

> Will it also mean one can live-edit a plugin? Or is it the same limitation as 
> with macros, i.e that it refreshes the page? 

Yes, any modification to or creation of a plugin tiddler will trigger the 
registration of the constituent shadow tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Re: Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

> On 12 Sep 2019, at 03:48, Mohammad  wrote:
> 
> In this way there is no need to have shadow tiddlers start with $:/plugins 
> they can be ordinary tiddlers have been packed using a tool like Tinka!

Is that a restriction of Tinka? The core doesn’t restrict the titles of shadow 
tiddlers; using $:/plugin/foo/bar/ is only a convention.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Reversing Safe Mode

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

It sounds like you were using safemode with the Node.js configuration, which 
can lead to data loss (specifically, the tiddlers overwritten by safe mode get 
saved to the server). With the Node.js configuration you don’t really need safe 
mode because you can directly manipulate the files in the wiki folder to 
resolve issues.

I’ll update the docs to make things clearer,

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 12 Sep 2019, at 06:10, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> For not clear reason my KEY wiki is throwing an error on load. I am not sure 
> what the last change was but I had to open it in safe mode 
> . 
> Unfortunately in subsequent reloads it remains in safe mode.  All plugins are 
> temporarily disabled. Most customisations have been disabled by renaming the 
> following tiddlers: Which number in the dozens.
> 
> This remains after loading the wiki without the #:safe
> 
> Unfortunately the documentation does not suggest how to now reverse safe 
> mode. If there a trick or is it a tiddler by tiddler, plugin by plugin, reset?
> 
> This has not occured for me very often so I do not recall how to respond.
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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[tw5] Coming in v5.1.22: dynamic loading of plugins

[Jeremy Ruston]

I’m pretty excited to announce that if all goes well, one of the new features 
for v5.1.22 will be the ability to dynamically load/unload plugins without 
needing to refresh the page.

The catch is that this only works for plugins that do not contain any 
JavaScript modules. For plugins that do contain JS modules, the behaviour is 
the same as at present, with a warning message advising the user to reload the 
page. The reason for this restriction is to avoid corruption due to attempting 
to swap a module that is already running. Nonetheless, there’s a huge and 
useful set of plugins that do not contain JS modules, including all themes and 
languages.

It’s a work in progress, and not yet merged into the prerelease:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/4259

Just to be clear, this means that with the proviso above, users will be able to:

* Add new plugins from the plugin library without reloading
* Add new plugins via drag and drop without reloading
* Delete unneeded plugins without reloading
* Eventually, to use tools like Tinka to package plugins without requiring a 
reload to test

There’s still a fair bit to do:

* Indicate in the plugin library which plugins will require a reload
* More testing
* Documentation

Questions and comments welcome.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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Re: [tw5] TiddlyWiki .md Files

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Andrew

> I'm not understanding how to get TW to save tiddlers  "as a .md file with the 
> text along with a .md.meta file to contain the metadata." I used the control 
> panel to install the markdown plugin, and have got that working. But the 
> tiddlers are still being saved as .tid files. It sounds like I'm supposed to 
> do something to the tiddlywiki.info <http://tiddlywiki.info/> file directly, 
> but I'm not sure what. Or do I have to install other "CodeMirror" plugins? 
> There seem to be a bunch of those.

Don’t use the control panel to install plugins when using the client server 
configuration. Instead, add the plugins via the tiddlywiki.info file as 
described earlier in this thread. The plugins that you’ve imported via drag and 
drop will appear as .json files in your wiki folder; you’ll need to delete them 
to get things working again.

Best wishes

Jeremy.



> 
> Thanks in advance for any further help.
> 
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 5:44:49 AM UTC-4, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> Hi Talha131
> 
>> Jeremy does this mean if I have 
>> 
>> "plugins": [
>> "tiddlywiki/markdown"
>> ]
>> In my tiddlywiki.info 
>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftiddlywiki.info=D=1=AFQjCNHkNn4VfYQn3QSKVVY1NrUnPOislg>
>>  file then I don’t need to drag and drop markdown plugin from here 
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/highlight/ 
>> <https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/highlight/>
>> If so then is there a list of plugins and themes that can be added in this 
>> way?
>> 
> You can add any plugins from the TW5 repo. The plugin library in control 
> panel shows the titles of plugins as $:/plugins/tiddlywiki/codemirror; you 
> just need the “tiddlywiki/codemirror” part in the tiddlywiki.info 
> <http://tiddlywiki.info/> file.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
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Re: [tw5] Find current tiddle title with a javascript macro -or- regex transform {{!!title}}

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Leon

The usual way to address this would be to pass the tiddler title to the macro 
call by using the macrocall widget:

<$macrocall $name="JavaC1" myText={{!!title}}/>

That way, the macro can be used with any text, not just the current tiddler 
title.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 11 Sep 2019, at 02:18, Leon Gomez  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm trying to find a way to get the current {{!!title}} into an alphanumeric 
> + underscores format variable, so for example "Topic: Foo Bar" would be 
> converted to "topic_foo_bar"
> 
> The following works to convert text as wanted:
> 
> /*\
> title: JavaC1
> type: application/javascript
> module-type: macro
> \*/
> (function(){
> 
> /*jslint node: true, browser: true */
> /*global $tw: false */
> "use strict";
> 
> exports.name = "JavaC1";
> 
> exports.params = [
>   { name: "myText" }
> ];
> 
> /*
> Run the macro
> */
> exports.run = function(myText) {
>   if( !myText) myText = "all spaces to underscores";
> var myAlphanum = myText.replace(/[^A-Z0-9]+/ig, "_");
>   var output ="1: [" + myText + "] 2: [" + myAlphanum+ "]";
>   return output;
> };
> 
> })();
> Calling:
> <>
> <>
> 
> but I can't find how to make it automatically retrieve {{!!title}} as with 
> normal tiddlywiki macros.
> 
> Alternatively, is there any other method to transform/user regex inside 
> regular macros, or easily acquire the title on that format? Thanks
> 
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Re: [tw5] random macro, random filter

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

> On 11 Sep 2019, at 08:47, Mohammad Rahmani  wrote:
> 
> As there is no random filter (I expect to have it with math operators) in TW 
> core, is it possible using machine clock and TW 5.1.20+ math ops create a 
> macro to generate random numbers?

This has come up before, it might be helpful to dig up the old references.

The reason there is not a simple [random[]] operator is that filter operators 
are supposed to be deterministic: they must return the same results for the 
same inputs, regardless of when they are called. This property is required for 
the refresh mechanism to operate correctly. In particular, using a 
non-deterministic filter with the list widget will cause thrashing on every 
refresh cycle.

To make it work, one needs to add a seed operand, and initialise that value via 
a new action widget that can assign a random value to a tiddler. I think 
somebody made a plugin a few years ago to do this.

Best wishes

Jeremy


> 
> 
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
> 
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Re: [tw5] Linking Katex formulae elements to a tiddler

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Christian

> On 11 Sep 2019, at 09:47, Christian Macedo  wrote:
> 
> I've managed to install Katex from the link 
> 
Usually it’s easier to install plugins from the official library via the 
control panel “plugins” tab, did that not work for you?

> and I'm looking to link any single item in a given formula to a separate 
> tiddler.

There’s no way at the moment to make a portion of a formula be a link, but one 
can embed entire formulas into a link. For example:

<$link to="KaTeX">
$$
f(x) = \int_{-\infty}^\infty\hat f(\xi)\,e^{2 \pi i \xi x}\,d\xi
$$


Best wishes

Jeremy.


> 
> If we look at the following formula:
> 
> $$e = mc^{2}$$
> 
> I would like to link the 'e' to a tiddler which explains it. I managed to do 
> this and then (intelligently) delete it. I've tried:
> 
> [[e]]$$ = mc^{2}$$ and
> [[$$e$$]]$$ = mc^{2}$$
> 
> But neither works. 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
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