[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
Until that happens, no user or developer is going to be happy with OAuth in a desktop or mobile application. Sorry to be blunt, but the user experience sucks when you're using OAuth outside the confines of a web browser. Not necessarily. A UIWebView (in an iPhone app) can provide a good user experience for OAuth login Right now, the OAuth UI is pretty bad (see bug 395). However, if that bug is fixed, the user experience should be fairly good. It is even more likely that a malicious app would direct you to a phishing site during the OAuth flow Yes, this is a good point. Phishing, keystroke logging etc. are some of the attack tactics that a malicious app can use. A malicious app can do malicious things and OAuth wouldn't protect the user against every possible attack. However, OAuth can help in some other circumstances (with non- malicious apps, that may have insecure code). For instance, a popular iPhone Twitter client used to save the user's (unencrypted) password on the device (NSUserDefaults). Presumably, some Windows and Mac Twitter clients also do similar things and save the unencrypted password on the machine. Some probably send the unencrypted password over HTTP for every user post. OAuth can help protect the user's password in these scenarios. Obviously, the user (of an app with insecure code) is still at some risk because the access token may be easily retrievable from the machine, but it is far more difficult to exploit an access token The bottomline is that it is possible to write good secure code with basic auth, but several developers don't do that. OAuth mitigates the risks, but it doesn't eliminate all risks. So there is some value to OAuth. Ram http://blog.CascadeSoft.net
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter rejecting show_user request
Am I reading this right? ... The php warning message implies that your php script is trying to open the string ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? . /hash as a file [1] . It seems very unlikely to me that this is a valid filename, ignoring the fact that the user with ID 4667006333 also does not seem to exist [2] [1] http://php.net/manual/en/function.file-get-contents.php [2] http://twitter.com/users/show.xml?user_id=4667006333 On Oct 12, 3:44 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: can you please let us know what search you were executing at the time? this way i can look through this a bit more carefully. thanks! yes, the twitter id comes from a twitter hashtag search that returns an xml document. i'm using show.xml to get the location of the twitter id. Are you sure that the ID in question exists? Hello, Just started developing a Twitter app... I'm using a php script with CURL to issue a show_user request, and i'm getting this response: Warning: file_get_contents(?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? hash request/users/show.xml?user_id=4667006333/request errorNot found/error /hash ) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory Does Twitter still allow Basic Authorization? Do I have to register an app with Twitter in order to get a valid response when using the REST API? Thanks for helping out... -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter Platform Team ra...@twitter.com | @raffi
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
As a a software and Web site user, I consider my desktop apps mine and Web sites theirs. I am sure that this is the mindset of most people. We visit Web sites, and we give information to them. Yes, they do things for us in return. Even when providing SaaS, I am still on their site. On the other hand, when I use a desktop app, I am using my software on my computer and it is likely that I have other desktop apps to which I have given passwords and keys. In fact, I may even have my Browser remember passwords for Web sites I frequent as well as keep other personal information. As a consequence of this distinction, while I consider OAuth a fine architecture in the context of Web workflow, it is (presently) not optimally suited for the desktop experience. As a user, I control my apps (well, presuming they are not malicious), and can turn them off or uninstall them at my discretion. A Web site is (very) different in that I have no real authority over it. btw: I think it is quite important to realize just how atypical/novel Twitter is in assessing the needs of a desktop solution: Twitter isn't really a Web site (though it has a Web site) -- Twitter is a messaging infrastructure, and client apps are end-points. In this regard, think of it more like email. The UX I want for users of my app is what I want when they use an email client: they'll use a Preferences/Wizard approach to add account (s), and thereafter the app provides functionality. Although users have the option of visiting Twitter's Web site to interact with Twitter, it is my goal (as I suspect it is for most clients), to over time obviate the need for users to go there. In this context, I see the needs for a desktop solution as: 1) don't ever send the user's password in the clear over an unencrypted transaction, even if obfuscated (e.g., Base64). 2) in spite of #1, don't require use of SSL/TLS for every transaction (that requires user authentication). 3) client apps should be uniquely identified, and Twitter should have the control to withdraw a client's access to Twitter's service. 4) empower a user to terminate an issued token (whether because the app turns out to be malicious, or because the token has been compromised). On Oct 12, 10:02 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: But it completely subverts the point of OAuth, because it lets a third party have your password. Why even use OAuth in that case? On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 19:01, Zhami stu...@zhameesha.com wrote: On Oct 12, 5:44 pm, Sebastian sdelm...@gmail.com wrote: The solution for OAuth on Mobile and Desktop is easy: snip Let me rewrite this in plain english: let the app ask for login/ password and pass it to twitter. snip All we need is a simple API call where we can trade a login and password for an oauth access token, bypassing the browser. I think this is a grand idea, and wanted to acknowledge it. This solution removes the password from being bandied about endlessly with Basic Auth, but is appropriate for the world of desktop apps where users are comfortable providing their password because applications often ask for access restricted information. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL
I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a
TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit start-help, I think I'll be able
to proceed.
Can somebody help me with a sample PERL-code:
From within a PERL script ( which has two variables filled with
strings. names of those VARS are $VAR1, $VAR2) I want to
a) connect to twitter (lets assume username = test, password =
water)
b) send a tweet Hello world $VAR1 {space} $VAR2. This is my first
test tweet automatically posted from a perl script.
c) disconnect from twitter
Maybe you also can give a command-reference, something like perl
TWITTER API in a nutshell.
Very many thanks for your help, Alex
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
On Oct 12, 11:44 pm, Josh Roesslein jroessl...@gmail.com wrote: Providing an API endpoint for basic auth credential exchange for a token would be a nice solution, but I can see it getting abused. An attacker could bombard this endpoint trying to guess an account's password. Protection can be placed to limit calls to this endpoint by IP which might be enough to prevent this kind of brute attack. Your argument, while a valid concern, is moot. There is already a regular login page that can be abused just like you describe. It already has protection. Even regular API calls have to be protected because Basic Auth can be used for brute force attacks. Adding an api call to exchange login/password pairs for oauth tokens doesn't add any new security issues. It does open the possibility for web sites to use this call instead of the regular workflow, but, again, that possibility has always been there, doing automated calls to the regular login and auth pages. The only way to close that door is to offer web apps a way to do password-less authentication, which is what oauth does, and to train users to never ever give their password to a web site. But for non-browser, native apps (mobile, desktop, etc), forcing the use of a browser to authenticate to a separate website provides no security at all. The native app can easily intercept the http calls, the browser JS callbacks and many other ways to get that information. So there is no point in forcing this workflow. We're better off not giving users a false sense of security. This has been brought up before on the oauth mailing list, but a lot of security folks cringe at the idea. I feel there is not much of a security loss here since the application running on the user's computer can already do harm. I'd like to hear from the Twitter API team on their thoughts of this idea. It might not be part of the spec, but OAuth is pretty open to service providers extending it. Josh On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Sebastian sdelm...@gmail.com wrote: The solution for OAuth on Mobile and Desktop is easy: Allow the app to act as the user agent when authenticating with Twitter when requesting the token and authorizing the app. Let me rewrite this in plain english: let the app ask for login/ password and pass it to twitter. Users don't seem to be worried about providing their credentials to a local app. They do it all the time when configuring basic auth clients, and they do it with 99% of the other client apps they use. Developers are (barely, in most cases) worried about having to store the password, but if they only need it during the initial handshake, then there is nothing to store. All we need is a simple API call where we can trade a login and password for an oauth access token, bypassing the browser. And if you think this will make it less secure, think about a desktop app that, using the current workflow, launches a browser to get the user to approve the app. That browser can be configured to use local proxies, or JS callbacks or any number of mechanisms that let the app capture the authentication credentials. Getting rid of the browser has no negative impact on safety, while giving developers better control of the UX, which gives them more reasons to implement oauth, which does have a positive impact. Anyway, just my two cents. PS: There is nothing right now preventing a mobile or desktop app from bypassing the browser as I'm describing, by acting as a browser and calling the same pages a browser would have presented to the user. On Oct 12, 1:01 pm, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey everyone, I wanted to email the list to start gathering some feedback on how we can improve the OAuth workflow. As we have discussed in the past, Basic Auth is going to be deprecated at some point in the future for OAuth and we want to make sure we improve the experience to meet everyone's needs. I am interested in capturing feedback for both the web and desktop workflows. 1. What can be improved about the web workflow? 2. What can be improved about the desktop workflow? 3. What other models of distributed auth do you think we could learn from and what specifically about them? 4. What could we improve around the materials for integrating OAuth into your application? We really appreciate your feedback. Best, Ryan -- Josh
[twitter-dev] How To Unlock Locked iPod
How To Unlock Locked iPod http://bit.ly/hddpp http://bit.ly/hddpp How To Unlock Locked iPod
[twitter-dev] Re: How To Unlock Locked iPod
Nice. One of these showed up as from _me_ over in DotNetDevelopment. Someone found an exploit in Google Groups ... ∞ Andy Badera ∞ +1 518-641-1280 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:45 AM, Forum 4bra...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.warez-bb.org/viewforum.php?f=3* How To Unlock Locked iPod http://bit.ly/hddpp http://bit.ly/hddpp How To Unlock Locked iPod ***
[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL
Twitter has a list of libraries that should help
http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Libraries#Perl
Usually when I want to start working with an api in perl I check cpan
our first
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=twittermode=all
Most libraries in cpan will have some example code to get you going.
On Oct 13, 6:33 am, apfelmaennchen alexander.grefr...@gmail.com
wrote:
I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a
TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit start-help, I think I'll be able
to proceed.
Can somebody help me with a sample PERL-code:
From within a PERL script ( which has two variables filled with
strings. names of those VARS are $VAR1, $VAR2) I want to
a) connect to twitter (lets assume username = test, password =
water)
b) send a tweet Hello world $VAR1 {space} $VAR2. This is my first
test tweet automatically posted from a perl script.
c) disconnect from twitter
Maybe you also can give a command-reference, something like perl
TWITTER API in a nutshell.
Very many thanks for your help, Alex
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/ -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
The Twitter API already rejects duplicate tweets. It appears that not everyone in Twitter is aware of this fact. Ryan, can you please communicate that to your fellow Twitter employees? Dewald On Oct 13, 2:23 am, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Isn't it the case they reject duplicate Tweets if you try to post the same thing twice consecutively? I've not seen them reject duplicate Tweets if there is intervening posts. Personally I think this is a really bad move on Twitter's part. Because of the streaming model of Twitter itself and the fact that not every follower will see every Tweet that you do, not being able to do recurring Tweets leaves businesses without the ability to economically get a consistent message out onto their account. It also looks like a very anti-competitive move to all the ad stream businesses out there. Certainly there are some ad companies that have abused recurring Tweets, but without the ability to do recurring Tweets, the motivation for many businesses to maintain a presence on Twitter just dropped because there's no better way to capitalize on the labor and expense of building and maintaining a following. So much about promotion of business has to do with consistent message and creating brand presence with that consistent message. Is Twitter carving out space now to do their own in-stream ad busines? Are businesses shut out that want to promote themselves on their own account without having to assign a person with a paycheck to get a simple and repetitive task done? A short sighted move it seems to me. If Twitter doesn't want businesses on their service then they're going in the right direction.
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
To everyone who's suggesting to embed a web view in the desktop or mobile app, please go read this: http://fireeagle.yahoo.net/developer/documentation/ oauth_best_practice Specifically, ... we insist that you must not use embedded rendering controls to present the OAuth process Phishing in a web view is incredibly easy with a little bit of JavaScript. From a user's point-of-view, entering their credentials into that built-in web browser is MUCH less secure than sending HTTP basic authentication over SSL. -ch On Oct 12, 11:45 pm, Ram group...@cascadesoft.net wrote: Until that happens, no user or developer is going to be happy with OAuth in a desktop or mobile application. Sorry to be blunt, but the user experience sucks when you're using OAuth outside the confines of a web browser. Not necessarily. A UIWebView (in an iPhone app) can provide a good user experience for OAuth login Right now, the OAuth UI is pretty bad (see bug 395). However, if that bug is fixed, the user experience should be fairly good. It is even more likely that a malicious app would direct you to a phishing site during the OAuth flow Yes, this is a good point. Phishing, keystroke logging etc. are some of the attack tactics that a malicious app can use. A malicious app can do malicious things and OAuth wouldn't protect the user against every possible attack. However, OAuth can help in some other circumstances (with non- malicious apps, that may have insecure code). For instance, a popular iPhone Twitter client used to save the user's (unencrypted) password on the device (NSUserDefaults). Presumably, some Windows and Mac Twitter clients also do similar things and save the unencrypted password on the machine. Some probably send the unencrypted password over HTTP for every user post. OAuth can help protect the user's password in these scenarios. Obviously, the user (of an app with insecure code) is still at some risk because the access token may be easily retrievable from the machine, but it is far more difficult to exploit an access token The bottomline is that it is possible to write good secure code with basic auth, but several developers don't do that. OAuth mitigates the risks, but it doesn't eliminate all risks. So there is some value to OAuth. Ramhttp://blog.CascadeSoft.net
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
The problem is that on mobile platforms is extremely easy to simulate a regular browser to the point a user cannot tell the difference. Training users to expect security because it looks like a browser is even worse than telling them to give their passwords to native apps but be careful as to which apps they use. Native apps can do many things browser-based apps cannot. Trying to extend the OAuth metaphor to native apps only works when you give up the idea of not having to give passwords (or you give up the idea of having decent UX by saying that the user has to open a separate browser manually). OAuth on native apps is useful for: - a way to provide fast-but-secure connections (https on small devices has a significant performance impact) - a way to help native apps not have to save passwords locally. - a way for the service provider to identify (and block) apps. - a way for the user to revoke authorization on a per-app basis. Forget about using OAuth on native apps as a password-less authorization mechanism, because no matter how hard you try, the security holes are to big to close properly. Because, as that Fire Eagle document proves, the only way to prevent app developers from intercepting browser calls is to beg developers not to intercept browser calls. On Oct 13, 11:49 am, Craig Hockenberry craig.hockenbe...@gmail.com wrote: To everyone who's suggesting to embed a web view in the desktop or mobile app, please go read this: http://fireeagle.yahoo.net/developer/documentation/ oauth_best_practice Specifically, ... we insist that you must not use embedded rendering controls to present the OAuth process Phishing in a web view is incredibly easy with a little bit of JavaScript. From a user's point-of-view, entering their credentials into that built-in web browser is MUCH less secure than sending HTTP basic authentication over SSL. -ch On Oct 12, 11:45 pm, Ram group...@cascadesoft.net wrote: Until that happens, no user or developer is going to be happy with OAuth in a desktop or mobile application. Sorry to be blunt, but the user experience sucks when you're using OAuth outside the confines of a web browser. Not necessarily. A UIWebView (in an iPhone app) can provide a good user experience for OAuth login Right now, the OAuth UI is pretty bad (see bug 395). However, if that bug is fixed, the user experience should be fairly good. It is even more likely that a malicious app would direct you to a phishing site during the OAuth flow Yes, this is a good point. Phishing, keystroke logging etc. are some of the attack tactics that a malicious app can use. A malicious app can do malicious things and OAuth wouldn't protect the user against every possible attack. However, OAuth can help in some other circumstances (with non- malicious apps, that may have insecure code). For instance, a popular iPhone Twitter client used to save the user's (unencrypted) password on the device (NSUserDefaults). Presumably, some Windows and Mac Twitter clients also do similar things and save the unencrypted password on the machine. Some probably send the unencrypted password over HTTP for every user post. OAuth can help protect the user's password in these scenarios. Obviously, the user (of an app with insecure code) is still at some risk because the access token may be easily retrievable from the machine, but it is far more difficult to exploit an access token The bottomline is that it is possible to write good secure code with basic auth, but several developers don't do that. OAuth mitigates the risks, but it doesn't eliminate all risks. So there is some value to OAuth. Ramhttp://blog.CascadeSoft.net
[twitter-dev] Whitelisting - Turn Around
Hi, I requested to be whitelisted on October 9th, which is less than a week I know. Unfortunately, my project is timely and requires receiving a larger amount of data as soon as possible. I saw that other people had trouble with being whitelisted so I was wondering the time that it usually takes to be whitelisted. I was also wondering if there was anyone I could contact in the attempt to expedite the decision? -Kyle
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Isn't it the case they reject duplicate Tweets if you try to post the same thing twice consecutively? I've not seen them reject duplicate Tweets if there is intervening posts. Correct. Personally I think this is a really bad move on Twitter's part. Because of the streaming model of Twitter itself and the fact that not every follower will see every Tweet that you do, not being able to do recurring Tweets leaves businesses without the ability to economically get a consistent message out onto their account. I think this is a valid point, but what would you do with accounts that do recurrent @s? You don't have to follow them for them to show up in your mentions, and that means a never ending stream of blocks. Moreover, those kinds of recurrent tweets also show up (all other things being equal) in Twitter Search, contaminating those results. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- She loves ya! ... now what? -- True Lies -
[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL
If you are looking to do something basic like that, then curl works
well. As a perl script:
#!/usr/bin/perl
my $VAR1=hello;
my $VAR2=bye bye;
my $response=`curl --basic --user test:water --data status=\aHello
world $VAR1 $VAR2. This is my first test tweet automatically posted from
a perl script\ http://twitter.com/statuses/update.xml`;
print $response;
Naturally, if you want to start doing more complex stuff, especially
OAuth, then the CPAN libraries are an enormous help.
Nigel
http://tags.linkky.com
@secretbear
apfelmaennchen wrote:
I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a
TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit start-help, I think I'll be able
to proceed.
Can somebody help me with a sample PERL-code:
From within a PERL script ( which has two variables filled with
strings. names of those VARS are $VAR1, $VAR2) I want to
a) connect to twitter (lets assume username = test, password =
water)
b) send a tweet Hello world $VAR1 {space} $VAR2. This is my first
test tweet automatically posted from a perl script.
c) disconnect from twitter
Maybe you also can give a command-reference, something like perl
TWITTER API in a nutshell.
Very many thanks for your help, Alex
[twitter-dev] Re: Whitelisting - Turn Around
It can take up to a week. Unfortunately, everyone's project is timely and wants more data as soon as possible :( We're working through the backlog. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Kyle B kylebarn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I requested to be whitelisted on October 9th, which is less than a week I know. Unfortunately, my project is timely and requires receiving a larger amount of data as soon as possible. I saw that other people had trouble with being whitelisted so I was wondering the time that it usually takes to be whitelisted. I was also wondering if there was anyone I could contact in the attempt to expedite the decision? -Kyle
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I see @ mention abusers as a different breed because for the most part their Tweets are not technically duplicates. They are complete pollution for sure and harder for an individual user to stop preemptively. At least if someone is annoyed with recurring or duplicate tweets they can simply unfollow that account and there's a self regulating mechanism. Ultimately the real pollution issue is the @ mention system itself, not recurring Tweets on individual accounts. If Twitter wants to clean up the pollution, as they put in their message to Dewald, they would have a lot easier time rooting out @ mention spammers than trying to figure out some pattern of recurring Tweets looking back into history. You can usually determine an @mention spammer by looking at the first 5-10 Tweets and simply counting the @ symbols. The DM system is already polluted beyond hope. @ mentions are right on the heels of being useless to businesses trying to track the brand. In the grand scheme of Twitter problems, it seems to me that recurring Tweets are way down on the list and I think they're pulling a real tool out of the grasp of many businesses, enough that I don't know whether I can honestly suggest a business spend time on Twitter.
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
As I mentioned yesterday, phishing, keystroke logging are some of the attacks that a malicious app can use with OAuth. With these attacks, a malicious app can get the password. Of course, in the case of basic auth, every app (malicious or good) will always get the password. However, as I also mentioned, OAuth offers significant security/ privacy benefits over basic auth - when it comes to non-malicious apps. I'm surprised that many OAuth opponents are unwilling to acknowledge (or even discuss) this basic fact. Ram http://blog.CascadeSoft.net On Oct 13, 8:49 am, Craig Hockenberry craig.hockenbe...@gmail.com wrote: To everyone who's suggesting to embed a web view in the desktop or mobile app, please go read this: http://fireeagle.yahoo.net/developer/documentation/ oauth_best_practice Specifically, ... we insist that you must not use embedded rendering controls to present the OAuth process Phishing in a web view is incredibly easy with a little bit of JavaScript. From a user's point-of-view, entering their credentials into that built-in web browser is MUCH less secure than sending HTTP basic authentication over SSL. -ch On Oct 12, 11:45 pm, Ram group...@cascadesoft.net wrote: Until that happens, no user or developer is going to be happy with OAuth in a desktop or mobile application. Sorry to be blunt, but the user experience sucks when you're using OAuth outside the confines of a web browser. Not necessarily. A UIWebView (in an iPhone app) can provide a good user experience for OAuth login Right now, the OAuth UI is pretty bad (see bug 395). However, if that bug is fixed, the user experience should be fairly good. It is even more likely that a malicious app would direct you to a phishing site during the OAuth flow Yes, this is a good point. Phishing, keystroke logging etc. are some of the attack tactics that a malicious app can use. A malicious app can do malicious things and OAuth wouldn't protect the user against every possible attack. However, OAuth can help in some other circumstances (with non- malicious apps, that may have insecure code). For instance, a popular iPhone Twitter client used to save the user's (unencrypted) password on the device (NSUserDefaults). Presumably, some Windows and Mac Twitter clients also do similar things and save the unencrypted password on the machine. Some probably send the unencrypted password over HTTP for every user post. OAuth can help protect the user's password in these scenarios. Obviously, the user (of an app with insecure code) is still at some risk because the access token may be easily retrievable from the machine, but it is far more difficult to exploit an access token The bottomline is that it is possible to write good secure code with basic auth, but several developers don't do that. OAuth mitigates the risks, but it doesn't eliminate all risks. So there is some value to OAuth. Ramhttp://blog.CascadeSoft.net- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -
[twitter-dev] Re: HTTP Server Error 503 No available server to handle this request
My application is no longer able to Authorize Twitter accounts, even though I was able too on october 9th. I am assuming it is because of this as well, so take from that what you will. On Oct 12, 7:47 pm, eclipsed4utoo ryanalford...@gmail.com wrote: Are people still having issues posting status updates from third party applications? I haven't been able to post all day. Still can't post now. There isn't an update on the Twitter status page. I didn't know if that was because it wasn't fixed yet, or because they just haven't updated it post yet. Ryan On Oct 12, 4:56 pm, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:42 PM, John Kalucki jkalu...@gmail.com wrote: We need to get better at the status blog, but it's rare that we aren't responding to a site- wide issue within moments. -John Kalucki http://twitter.com/jkalucki Services, Twitter Inc. Any idea when that might happen? I've been seeing this issue for over four hours now. Had a 4pm EDT client phone call, and didn't have much to tell them. I understand there's a lot going on that you guys need to handle, but the entire ecosystem that helped popularize Twitter has a financial motivation that needs to be attended to, even if Twitter's current momentum has carried it past us little people. And Twitter has shown a history of going to the media before informing us folk. There needs to be a better balance. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ +1 518-641-1280 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
[twitter-dev] Re: Whitelisting - Turn Around
I got blank page on submission on both IE8 and FF3.5 not sure why? On Oct 13, 11:37 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: It can take up to a week. Unfortunately, everyone's project is timely and wants more data as soon as possible :( We're working through the backlog. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Kyle B kylebarn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I requested to be whitelisted on October 9th, which is less than a week I know. Unfortunately, my project is timely and requires receiving a larger amount of data as soon as possible. I saw that other people had trouble with being whitelisted so I was wondering the time that it usually takes to be whitelisted. I was also wondering if there was anyone I could contact in the attempt to expedite the decision? -Kyle
[twitter-dev] I try to request for a white-list but results in blank page.
Hi. I try to request to be on a white-list http://twitter.com/help/request_whitelisting After submitting, I only get blank page on both FireFox3.5 and IE8 I have done this several times in FireFox3.5 first before I switched to IE8 Is the submission success?... Or it is an error? Regards,
[twitter-dev] Re: HTTP Server Error 503 No available server to handle this request
And I am still having issues. I still can't post status updates from my application, even though this worked fine on Sunday night. Ryan On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM, rivv drachemor...@gmail.com wrote: My application is no longer able to Authorize Twitter accounts, even though I was able too on october 9th. I am assuming it is because of this as well, so take from that what you will. On Oct 12, 7:47 pm, eclipsed4utoo ryanalford...@gmail.com wrote: Are people still having issues posting status updates from third party applications? I haven't been able to post all day. Still can't post now. There isn't an update on the Twitter status page. I didn't know if that was because it wasn't fixed yet, or because they just haven't updated it post yet. Ryan On Oct 12, 4:56 pm, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:42 PM, John Kalucki jkalu...@gmail.com wrote: We need to get better at the status blog, but it's rare that we aren't responding to a site- wide issue within moments. -John Kalucki http://twitter.com/jkalucki Services, Twitter Inc. Any idea when that might happen? I've been seeing this issue for over four hours now. Had a 4pm EDT client phone call, and didn't have much to tell them. I understand there's a lot going on that you guys need to handle, but the entire ecosystem that helped popularize Twitter has a financial motivation that needs to be attended to, even if Twitter's current momentum has carried it past us little people. And Twitter has shown a history of going to the media before informing us folk. There needs to be a better balance. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ +1 518-641-1280 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter is now focusing on regulating Twitter APPS shows that it has a weak and ineffective user regulation system in place. It can't effectively police its users, so it decides to go after apps that they (may) use. Cheap shot. It's like stopping drunk driving by banning all driving after dark. Do they really think that that is going to work? Sure, they can probably slam down Web-based clients that use dedicated, whitelisted IP addresses. But as I pointed out earlier, this will just shift the behavior, and make it even more nettlesome. Now it will move to desktop clients that they cannot stop (yes, they can still ban individual members for duplicate content, but they cannot stop the sale and use of the desktop client). Months ago I emailed Twitter asking them what OUR responsibilities were as app developers. I think all of us understand and recognize that many of our apps have features that could be abused. I think many of us are perfectly willing to police our own apps, and work with Twitter to help reign in behavior that isn't acceptable. But it seems out-of-bounds for Twitter to bypass such a cooperative system, and instead just carte blanche ban a particular app feature that has many legitimate uses. On Oct 13, 6:32 am, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/ -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-Twitter/lib/Net/Twitter.pod
On Oct 13, 3:33 am, apfelmaennchen alexander.grefr...@gmail.com
wrote:
I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a
TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit start-help, I think I'll be able
to proceed.
Can somebody help me with a sample PERL-code:
From within a PERL script ( which has two variables filled with
strings. names of those VARS are $VAR1, $VAR2) I want to
a) connect to twitter (lets assume username = test, password =
water)
b) send a tweet Hello world $VAR1 {space} $VAR2. This is my first
test tweet automatically posted from a perl script.
c) disconnect from twitter
Maybe you also can give a command-reference, something like perl
TWITTER API in a nutshell.
Very many thanks for your help, Alex
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get after previous tokens have been banned). Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:54, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter is now focusing on regulating Twitter APPS shows that it has a weak and ineffective user regulation system in place. It can't effectively police its users, so it decides to go after apps that they (may) use. Cheap shot. It's like stopping drunk driving by banning all driving after dark. Do they really think that that is going to work? Sure, they can probably slam down Web-based clients that use dedicated, whitelisted IP addresses. But as I pointed out earlier, this will just shift the behavior, and make it even more nettlesome. Now it will move to desktop clients that they cannot stop (yes, they can still ban individual members for duplicate content, but they cannot stop the sale and use of the desktop client). Months ago I emailed Twitter asking them what OUR responsibilities were as app developers. I think all of us understand and recognize that many of our apps have features that could be abused. I think many of us are perfectly willing to police our own apps, and work with Twitter to help reign in behavior that isn't acceptable. But it seems out-of-bounds for Twitter to bypass such a cooperative system, and instead just carte blanche ban a particular app feature that has many legitimate uses. On Oct 13, 6:32 am, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/ -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS Hang on a second. Please point me to the Twitter Rules where it clearly said that a recurring tweet is in violation of the TOS. Even though my app provided users with the ability to have recurring tweets that would not result in what my understanding and interpretation was at that time of the meaning of the very vague term duplicate content, they ruled recurring tweets as off-limits this Monday in a communication to me. And in a very patient attempt to be a good Twitter application developer, I complied and am deactivating that feature. NOW THAT I KNOW. Dewald On Oct 13, 4:16 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get after previous tokens have been banned). Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:54, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter is now focusing on regulating Twitter APPS shows that it has a weak and ineffective user regulation system in place. It can't effectively police its users, so it decides to go after apps that they (may) use. Cheap shot. It's like stopping drunk driving by banning all driving after dark. Do they really think that that is going to work? Sure, they can probably slam down Web-based clients that use dedicated, whitelisted IP addresses. But as I pointed out earlier, this will just shift the behavior, and make it even more nettlesome. Now it will move to desktop clients that they cannot stop (yes, they can still ban individual members for duplicate content, but they cannot stop the sale and use of the desktop client). Months ago I emailed Twitter asking them what OUR responsibilities were as app developers. I think all of us understand and recognize that many of our apps have features that could be abused. I think many of us are perfectly willing to police our own apps, and work with Twitter to help reign in behavior that isn't acceptable. But it seems out-of-bounds for Twitter to bypass such a cooperative system, and instead just carte blanche ban a particular app feature that has many legitimate uses. On Oct 13, 6:32 am, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/ -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get after previous tokens have been banned). Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I'm not debating that there might have been some confusion. I wasn't implying that you were irresponsible or malicious when building your app, and I commend you for taking appropriate measures when contacted by Twitter. It's now precedent, though, that it is a violation of the TOS, regardless of how you read the document. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 13:29, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS Hang on a second. Please point me to the Twitter Rules where it clearly said that a recurring tweet is in violation of the TOS. Even though my app provided users with the ability to have recurring tweets that would not result in what my understanding and interpretation was at that time of the meaning of the very vague term duplicate content, they ruled recurring tweets as off-limits this Monday in a communication to me. And in a very patient attempt to be a good Twitter application developer, I complied and am deactivating that feature. NOW THAT I KNOW. Dewald On Oct 13, 4:16 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get after previous tokens have been banned). Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:54, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter is now focusing on regulating Twitter APPS shows that it has a weak and ineffective user regulation system in place. It can't effectively police its users, so it decides to go after apps that they (may) use. Cheap shot. It's like stopping drunk driving by banning all driving after dark. Do they really think that that is going to work? Sure, they can probably slam down Web-based clients that use dedicated, whitelisted IP addresses. But as I pointed out earlier, this will just shift the behavior, and make it even more nettlesome. Now it will move to desktop clients that they cannot stop (yes, they can still ban individual members for duplicate content, but they cannot stop the sale and use of the desktop client). Months ago I emailed Twitter asking them what OUR responsibilities were as app developers. I think all of us understand and recognize that many of our apps have features that could be abused. I think many of us are perfectly willing to police our own apps, and work with Twitter to help reign in behavior that isn't acceptable. But it seems out-of-bounds for Twitter to bypass such a cooperative system, and instead just carte blanche ban a particular app feature that has many legitimate uses. On Oct 13, 6:32 am, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Any developer who has included and/or is thinking about including a recurring tweet feature in your app, please take note that they are against Twitter TOS. You can read what Twitter wrote to me here: http://www.socialoomphblog.com/recurring-tweets/ -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Please explain this statement? -Chad Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. When are you going to turn off Basic Auth? We would like to deprecate Basic Auth at some point to prevent security issues but no date has been set for that. We will not set a date for deprecation until several outstanding issues have been resolved. When we do set a date we plan to provide at least six months to transition. Can my application continue to use Basic Auth? There is no requirement to move to OAuth at this time. If/When a date is set for the deprecation of Basic Auth we will publish a notice on the API Development Talk. We will not set a date for deprecation until several outstanding issues have been resolved. When we do set a date we plan to provide at least six months to transition. Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients. Furthermore, please explain to me what voodoo you employed while reading those statements to come to your conclusion. I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? Why on earth would people do that? Why on earth would you want to tweet the exact same text once an hour for 100 consecutive hours. What benefit could that POSSIBLY provide to the Twitter ecosystem? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed. I disagree. I think it's pretty black and white. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
On Oct 13, 12:48 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients. Furthermore, please explain to me what voodoo you employed while reading those statements to come to your conclusion. You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? Why on earth would people do that? Why on earth would you want to tweet the exact same text once an hour for 100 consecutive hours. What benefit could that POSSIBLY provide to the Twitter ecosystem? I am beginning to realize it is of no use arguing with you. Obviously there is no benefit. That's the point: that both the app in question AND those apps provide means for violating Twitter's Terms of Service.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Wrong. _Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients. Furthermore, please explain to me what voodoo you employed while reading those statements to come to your conclusion. You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? In fairness, you can still disallow Basic Auth and allow other forms of password-based authentication. Twitter requiring a password does not necessarily mandate that Basic Auth be the method of presenting said authentication credentials. This coming from someone who likes Chad's idea rather than a pure OAuth universe. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. -- Beethoven ---
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? Since when do Firefox and IE use the API to communicate with Twitter? Last time I checked, they don't...but maybe I am just missing something. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:53 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 13, 12:48 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients. Furthermore, please explain to me what voodoo you employed while reading those statements to come to your conclusion. You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? Why on earth would people do that? Why on earth would you want to tweet the exact same text once an hour for 100 consecutive hours. What benefit could that POSSIBLY provide to the Twitter ecosystem? I am beginning to realize it is of no use arguing with you. Obviously there is no benefit. That's the point: that both the app in question AND those apps provide means for violating Twitter's Terms of Service.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 13:54, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! Nope. They send letters to the FCC because Google Voice is filling up their small tubes. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/att-accused-of-regulatory-capitalism-as-fcc-probes-google-voice.ars -- Abraham Williams | Community Evangelist | http://web608.org Hacker | http://abrah.am | http://twitter.com/abraham http://web608.org/geeks/abraham/blogs/2009/10/03/win-google-wave-invite This email is: [ ] blogable [x] ask first [ ] private.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
There appears to be a lack of understanding on the part of Twitter of the following: When you create a vacuum, something will fill that vacuum. Instead of working with me and opting for a solution I offered to them that would have ensured that recurring tweets never result in duplicate content from my system, they opted to rather outright ban recurring tweets. Okay fine, so now I don't offer that feature. That creates a vacuum. A whole host of less scrupulous developers are waiting to fill that vacuum with solutions that will be harder or impossible for Twitter to detect, creating an even bigger problem for Twitter than they had before. The fact that this approach of them is hurting my business is not very encouraging to write another Twitter-related line of code. Dewald On Oct 13, 4:45 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not debating that there might have been some confusion. I wasn't implying that you were irresponsible or malicious when building your app, and I commend you for taking appropriate measures when contacted by Twitter. It's now precedent, though, that it is a violation of the TOS, regardless of how you read the document. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 13:29, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS Hang on a second. Please point me to the Twitter Rules where it clearly said that a recurring tweet is in violation of the TOS. Even though my app provided users with the ability to have recurring tweets that would not result in what my understanding and interpretation was at that time of the meaning of the very vague term duplicate content, they ruled recurring tweets as off-limits this Monday in a communication to me. And in a very patient attempt to be a good Twitter application developer, I complied and am deactivating that feature. NOW THAT I KNOW. Dewald On Oct 13, 4:16 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get after previous tokens have been banned). Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:54, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter is now focusing on regulating Twitter APPS shows that it has a weak and ineffective user regulation system in place. It can't effectively police its users, so it decides to go after apps that they (may) use. Cheap shot. It's like stopping drunk driving by banning all driving after dark. Do they really think that that is going to work? Sure, they can probably slam down Web-based clients that use dedicated, whitelisted IP addresses. But as I pointed out earlier, this will just shift the behavior, and make it even more nettlesome. Now it will move to desktop clients that they cannot stop (yes, they can still ban individual members for duplicate content, but they cannot stop the sale and use of the desktop client). Months ago I emailed Twitter asking them what OUR responsibilities were as app developers. I think all of us understand and recognize that many of our apps have features that could be abused. I think many of us are perfectly willing to police our own apps, and work with Twitter to help reign in behavior that isn't acceptable. But it seems out-of-bounds for Twitter to bypass such a cooperative system, and instead just carte blanche ban a particular app feature that has many legitimate uses. On Oct 13, 6:32 am, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? On Oct 12, 7:24 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I see @ mention abusers as a different breed because for the most part their Tweets are not technically duplicates. They are complete pollution for sure and harder for an individual user to stop preemptively. At least if someone is annoyed with recurring or duplicate tweets they can simply unfollow that account and there's a self regulating mechanism. Ultimately the real pollution issue is the @ mention system itself, not recurring Tweets on individual accounts. For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- When people get acupuncture, do voodoo dolls die? --
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Does ATT write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! Nope. They send letters to the FCC because Google Voice is filling up their small tubes. That's easily solved, just get some trucks. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- A zebra cannot change its spots. -- Al Gore
[twitter-dev] Separate terms using commas?
I am using the streaming search API. If I have more than one term to search, do I need to separate those terms with commas? If these are hash tags, do I include the hash symbol? (#test1, #test2, #test3) I am experiencing some random problems, and I would like to eliminate this as the trouble spot before looking for the problem elsewhere.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? Since when do Firefox and IE use the API to communicate with Twitter? Last time I checked, they don't...but maybe I am just missing something. My point is that desktop apps can perform Twitter actions without going through the API. Any crackdown on particular behaviors of Web-based Twitter apps will likely see that behavior shift to desktop apps, as they are exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to centrally restrict.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
My point is that Basic Auth will be going away with the API. If an application is not using the API, then it's developers don't have to worry about Basic Auth going away because it won't concern them. OAuth is for API authorization, not website authorization. Ryan On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:11 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password only? Since when do Firefox and IE use the API to communicate with Twitter? Last time I checked, they don't...but maybe I am just missing something. My point is that desktop apps can perform Twitter actions without going through the API. Any crackdown on particular behaviors of Web-based Twitter apps will likely see that behavior shift to desktop apps, as they are exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to centrally restrict.
[twitter-dev] Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here
I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: http://help.twitter.com/home 1) Where do I go to open a ticket? I read the entire page, to find a little link, that says ask us. That takes me to: http://twitter.zendesk.com/requests/new That redirects me around a few times, and takes me right back to help.twitter.com/home. 2) How do I open a new ticket? Why do I need to? Because I just got this email from twitter support: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/340087/Drops/10.13.09/what-6855eebe-132402.png Thanks -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? You may have a point. But it comes down to uneven enforcement. Twitter smacks down an app because they allow an individual to recur, say, every Monday: Today is Monday and my office hours will be from 2:15-3:30pm. Meanwhile, you have apps which do things like this: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23fun140 Aren't those effectively recurring tweets?
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:29, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? You may have a point. But it comes down to uneven enforcement. Twitter smacks down an app because they allow an individual to recur, say, every Monday: Today is Monday and my office hours will be from 2:15-3:30pm. Meanwhile, you have apps which do things like this: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23fun140 Aren't those effectively recurring tweets? -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here
There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit rejection reasons. Please email a...@twitter.com with your username and we can lookup the information. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: http://help.twitter.com/home 1) Where do I go to open a ticket? I read the entire page, to find a little link, that says ask us. That takes me to: http://twitter.zendesk.com/requests/new That redirects me around a few times, and takes me right back to help.twitter.com/home. 2) How do I open a new ticket? Why do I need to? Because I just got this email from twitter support: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/340087/Drops/10.13.09/what-6855eebe-132402.png Thanks -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? You may have a point. But it comes down to uneven enforcement. Twitter smacks down an app because they allow an individual to recur, say, every Monday: Today is Monday and my office hours will be from 2:15-3:30pm. Meanwhile, you have apps which do things like this: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23fun140 Aren't those effectively recurring tweets? I agree, and actually I have a filter rule for something very similar. But we're moving from definition of TOS to enforcement of same. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- You can't have everything. Where would you put it? -- Steven Wright
[twitter-dev] Picture overlapping
The pictures of who I am following overlap their tweets and I can't read all of it.
[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here
Hi Chad, I've had difficulty receiving responses to #591600 and #593461 - is this due to the bug? Looks like it's been ignored : Thanks -Sam On Oct 13, 9:37 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit rejection reasons. Please email a...@twitter.com with your username and we can lookup the information. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: http://help.twitter.com/home 1) Where do I go to open a ticket? I read the entire page, to find a little link, that says ask us. That takes me to: http://twitter.zendesk.com/requests/new That redirects me around a few times, and takes me right back to help.twitter.com/home. 2) How do I open a new ticket? Why do I need to? Because I just got this email from twitter support: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/340087/Drops/10.13.09/what-6855eebe-132402... Thanks -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here
Hi Jacob and/or Sam, I don't have any visibility into the Zen Desk tickets. You can try supp...@twitter.com for that... -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Jacob sam...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Chad, I've had difficulty receiving responses to #591600 and #593461 - is this due to the bug? Looks like it's been ignored : Thanks -Sam On Oct 13, 9:37 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit rejection reasons. Please email a...@twitter.com with your username and we can lookup the information. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: http://help.twitter.com/home 1) Where do I go to open a ticket? I read the entire page, to find a little link, that says ask us. That takes me to: http://twitter.zendesk.com/requests/new That redirects me around a few times, and takes me right back to help.twitter.com/home. 2) How do I open a new ticket? Why do I need to? Because I just got this email from twitter support: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/340087/Drops/10.13.09/what-6855eebe-132402... Thanks -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Picture overlapping
It sounds like you need to get the developer of your Twitter client in here so we can help him.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here
There are many many reasons to reject whitelist applications. We definitely will not whitelist an entire /24 block of IPs, though. I have responded to you off-list about your particular case. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: What is the most common reason a whitelist request is rejected? I sent in a comma sep list of my entire /24, just because I do not know what IP's I am yet to use. Is that probably it? -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chad Etzel wrote: There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit rejection reasons. Please email a...@twitter.com with your username and we can lookup the information.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks'
Cut it out, Abraham :P ugh, spammers suck :( On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:27 PM, News 4bra...@gmail.com wrote: Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks' http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks'
[twitter-dev] twitterauth unpacked into GEMS directory issue
Has anyone had an issue doing ajax calls and the twitterauth thinking it is the root directory rather than the app directory?
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to powers that be and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say, above my pay grade. We do listen to these threads as long as the discussion remains constructive, which this one has. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. -- Internets. Serious business. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Thank you Chad, that is comforting to know. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:28 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to powers that be and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say, above my pay grade. We do listen to these threads as long as the discussion remains constructive, which this one has. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Thanks for the response Chad. Hoping we can find measures to curb abuse while still allowing responsible use of recurrence as a useful tool for publishers, businesses and their followers who benefit from the consistency/timeliness of the communications. On 10/13/09 8:28 PM, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to powers that be and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say, above my pay grade. We do listen to these threads as long as the discussion remains constructive, which this one has. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Chad, Perhaps it will behoove the powers that be to actually speak to some of us developers to discover the ways people are using Twitter. When decisions are made from the isolation of the glass bubble of the Twitter Head Office, without really knowing what the USERS want, stuff like this ensues. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:28 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to powers that be and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say, above my pay grade. We do listen to these threads as long as the discussion remains constructive, which this one has. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make vehicles that can exceed the speed limit? Or, in a different analogy, should the government shut down Home Depot because they sell chain saws and box cutters, and some people use chain saws and box cutters to murder other human beings? Dewald On Oct 13, 5:31 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
With communication like that, we can together figure out ways to give the users what they want in a manner that does not put undue strain on your system. Pissing developers off is NOT the right way to do it. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:58 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Chad, Perhaps it will behoove the powers that be to actually speak to some of us developers to discover the ways people are using Twitter. When decisions are made from the isolation of the glass bubble of the Twitter Head Office, without really knowing what the USERS want, stuff like this ensues. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:28 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to powers that be and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say, above my pay grade. We do listen to these threads as long as the discussion remains constructive, which this one has. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recurring tweets). The sad thing is this. Selected people at Twitter are very familiar with my level of cooperation with them. Believe it or not, there are people in Twitter who actually view me as one of the good guys. With my users having a recurring tweet feature available to them, and with the cooperation of Twitter and suitable information from Twitter, I could have contained the matter programmatically. But, with what essentially amounts as a flat-out rejection of my offer to cooperate and change my system to prevent duplicate tweets, they have now sent all those users off somewhere else, into the loving arms of people who couldn't give a shit about working with Twitter, and have in essence unleashed recurring tweet hell on themselves. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Let me repeat that. Hopefully someone in Twitter will take notice. The demand for recurring tweets has not suddenly magically disappeared. Dewald On Oct 13, 9:22 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn justyn.how...@gmail.com wrote: If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have businesses to run. Doesn't twitter want businesses to foster it's platform? There's valid uses for recurring content within reason. It's not realistic to ask users to come up with 52 unique headlines, hunt down the associated link and fire up the laptop prior to happy to hour every Wednesday at 6:00 in order to get a message out to people who opted to follow them. What's the happy-medium here? On Oct 13, 4:00 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people. Rightly or wrongly -- and I seriously believe you did this with no abusive intent -- you provided a tool that made it very easy for users to post duplicate tweets. They didn't shut you down. They gave you a stern warning. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, Where is the user's responsibility in this? I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analogy in mind, should the authorities pull over speeders, or should they shut down manufacturers that make
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Chad: Sorry, I didn't see you had posted in here, and not sure if my subsequent posts properly answered you. I mean that Desktop apps, not being bound by a whitelisted IP, wouldn't be limited by restrictions limiting API access to OAUTH only. Namely, a desktop client could use a Mozilla user-agent, scrape Twitter.com, grab an authenticity_token, and then do a simple HTTP form submission with plaintext username/password. From there, the client could do whatever outlawed actions aren't possible from Web apps. While you could presumably find some commonalities with these logins for a time, probably the only effective way to counter this approach is to introduce login captchas. And that's an ugly barrier to entry for the average user. Restricting Web-based apps will presumably shift the policed behavior to such desktop apps, where it would probably morph into something even more destructive. As a web-based developer, I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer. And it's really disheartening to hear that carte blanche limitations are now being imposed. There are obvious legitimate uses for recurring dynamic tweets (e.g., NBC announcing show schedules/guests, or fitness apps tweeting how many miles you ran). Blocking such behavior across the board seems incredibly short-sighted and limits further important business- oriented development in this area. PB On Oct 13, 12:47 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Please explain this statement? -Chad Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed.
[twitter-dev] Re: Noise-tweet regex repository
also , there should be a way for people whose tweets are wrongly marked as spam to remove their reg -exes from the system- and the system can perhaps send a direct message to sender for every 100 or so noise tweets blocked. Just a thought.. N. S On 10/14/09, Dave Briccetti da...@davebsoft.com wrote: The regexes can be pulled into an application at runtime, or at any other time by humans, machines, and perhaps beasts. For now I am happy to take the submitted noise-tweet candidates and create the regexes from them. I’m thinking of expanding the filtering to include application names (the “source” from the status). Like “foursquare.” But then we get into an area where many Twitter users will want to see those, so this brings to mind client features where users can select which of these repository filters to use.
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer. Add to that the clear and unambiguous definition of things. Yeah sure, Twitter cannot clearly define things because that will aid the spammers. Bullshit. It is their responsibility to define what exactly is acceptable to them. That will not assist the spammers. It will assist us to not inadvertently, through wrong interpretation or assumption, provide a platform that spammers can leverage. Up until the first email I received from Twitter on October 8th, I was monitoring the level of duplicate tweet rejection that the API was giving, and I consequently concluded that the users of my service was not producing a large amount of duplicate tweets. Seems like their internal definition of duplicate content is far wider than the interpretation of the Platform Team when they wrote the code to reject duplicate tweets. I still do not know exactly what is duplicate content and what is not. Do you? I guess not. Nobody knows. Dewald On Oct 13, 11:07 pm, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Chad: Sorry, I didn't see you had posted in here, and not sure if my subsequent posts properly answered you. I mean that Desktop apps, not being bound by a whitelisted IP, wouldn't be limited by restrictions limiting API access to OAUTH only. Namely, a desktop client could use a Mozilla user-agent, scrape Twitter.com, grab an authenticity_token, and then do a simple HTTP form submission with plaintext username/password. From there, the client could do whatever outlawed actions aren't possible from Web apps. While you could presumably find some commonalities with these logins for a time, probably the only effective way to counter this approach is to introduce login captchas. And that's an ugly barrier to entry for the average user. Restricting Web-based apps will presumably shift the policed behavior to such desktop apps, where it would probably morph into something even more destructive. As a web-based developer, I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer. And it's really disheartening to hear that carte blanche limitations are now being imposed. There are obvious legitimate uses for recurring dynamic tweets (e.g., NBC announcing show schedules/guests, or fitness apps tweeting how many miles you ran). Blocking such behavior across the board seems incredibly short-sighted and limits further important business- oriented development in this area. PB On Oct 13, 12:47 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Please explain this statement? -Chad Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed.
[twitter-dev] Famous Personality Twitter Accounts
Hello This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users from fake accounts? Initially I thought verified accounts will be the way, but then I saw there are many people whose accounts are not verified , but still they have many followers and also verified accounts say it is for avoiding duplicate names. Does twitter actually avoid fake stuff compared to other social networking sites? Thanks Yogesh
[twitter-dev] Re: Famous Personality Twitter Accounts
did you want this - http://twitter.com/verified ? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Yogesh Mali yomali1...@gmail.com wrote: Hello This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users from fake accounts? Initially I thought verified accounts will be the way, but then I saw there are many people whose accounts are not verified , but still they have many followers and also verified accounts say it is for avoiding duplicate names. Does twitter actually avoid fake stuff compared to other social networking sites? Thanks Yogesh -- Regards, Atul Kulkarni www.d.umn.edu/~kulka053
[twitter-dev] Re: Famous Personality Twitter Accounts
anyway, ignore my previous response. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Yogesh Mali yomali1...@gmail.com wrote: Hello This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users from fake accounts? Initially I thought verified accounts will be the way, but then I saw there are many people whose accounts are not verified , but still they have many followers and also verified accounts say it is for avoiding duplicate names. Does twitter actually avoid fake stuff compared to other social networking sites? Thanks Yogesh -- Regards, Atul Kulkarni www.d.umn.edu/~kulka053
[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed desktop feedback
When my application requests an OAuth token on behalf of a user trying to login, I have been seeing some errors: Frequently: /oauth/access_token Invalid / expired Token What is the length of time that a token is supposed to be valid for? Is this documented and can it be extended? I'm sure that I probably lose quite a few first time users when this happens. I imagine that they probably bring up my login page, get distracted and then run into this problem when they eventually try to log in. Occasionally: Twitter is over capacity. Would it make any sense to prioritize token handling when Twitter is at capacity? This is also an issue with wanting to allow my new users to login easily, even if they can't tweet right away (to avoid user conversion loss). My existing users probably never experience this issue with tokens when Twitter is at capacity, since my application caches credentials (as most other apps are probably also doing), so they don't normally go through my OAuth login flow very often. Not often: Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to twitter.com: 443 I'm not sure what causes this? I don't see it too often. - Scott
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
Chad, Could you provide Twitter's official stance on what exactly is being banned? If the ban is limited to recurring tweets, it would help to have a clear definition. Can I assume that this means that Twitter is no longer allowing a single user to publish the substantially same content to their stream more than once whether by automated or manual means? That the separation in time or number of tweets between occurences is not considered in the determination? Can I also assume that two tweets with substantially the same content on *different* user's streams (essentially retweets with or without RT) either manually or via application IS alllowed and is not a violation? A clarification would be very much appreciated in order to allow myself and other developers to plan new features accordingly. Thanks, Scott
[twitter-dev] /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string
Hello, I hope someone can help my query with the REST API /users/show.xml doesn't seem to be returning an xml string... I'm getting strange data back from my query. Here's the code: $twitterHost = 'http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=' . urlencode($lookforname); $curl = curl_init(); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_CONNECTTIMEOUT, 2); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HEADER, false); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTPAUTH, CURLAUTH_BASIC); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_USERPWD, $username: $password); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTP_VERSION, CURL_HTTP_VERSION_1_1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_URL, $twitterHost); $query = curl_exec($curl); and here's what i'm getting: $twitterHoststring(59) http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_one $query string(2023) 32432559 anton mandarine_one Neuburg an der Donau Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg http://www.grizzlyfear.de false 159 EBEBEB 33 99 F3F3F3 DFDFDF 238 Fri Apr 17 14:49:15 + 2009 23 3600 Berlin http://a1.twimg.com/profile_background_images/41257908/8edd7_014-sergeypoluse.jpg true 2129 false false false false Tue Oct 13 17:19:41 + 2009 4839657896 @_Schnucki_ madame sie gruseln mir die scheisse aus dem leid. du schreibst von stromschlag und bei mir geht das licht aus #scary a target='_blank' href=http://www.atebits.com/; rel=nofollowTweetie/a false 4839540863 50962463 false _Schnucki_ when i paste http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_one into the browser, i get an xml string: user id32432559/id nameanton/name screen_namemandarine_one/screen_name locationNeuburg an der Donau/location description Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. /description profile_image_url http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg /profile_image_url urlhttp://www.grizzlyfear.de/url protectedfalse/protected etc etc etc etc... Am I making some sort of basic mistake? Thanks for helping...
[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets
I use a service called localbunny that allows people to pull content on request, will this type of service be effected as well: Example: a user types @TwitterName keyword this returns 1- 5 tweets. Multiple people tweet that syntax per day and prior to a meeting 100's of people might make this same request. The returned results are always the same, but they are addressed to different people. To minimize the noise in the stream the service also users a listener (@BDNT) and a responder (@BDNT_AR). thoughts? On Oct 13, 8:46 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer. Add to that the clear and unambiguous definition of things. Yeah sure, Twitter cannot clearly define things because that will aid the spammers. Bullshit. It is their responsibility to define what exactly is acceptable to them. That will not assist the spammers. It will assist us to not inadvertently, through wrong interpretation or assumption, provide a platform that spammers can leverage. Up until the first email I received from Twitter on October 8th, I was monitoring the level of duplicate tweet rejection that the API was giving, and I consequently concluded that the users of my service was not producing a large amount of duplicate tweets. Seems like their internal definition of duplicate content is far wider than the interpretation of the Platform Team when they wrote the code to reject duplicate tweets. I still do not know exactly what is duplicate content and what is not. Do you? I guess not. Nobody knows. Dewald On Oct 13, 11:07 pm, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Chad: Sorry, I didn't see you had posted in here, and not sure if my subsequent posts properly answered you. I mean that Desktop apps, not being bound by a whitelisted IP, wouldn't be limited by restrictions limiting API access to OAUTH only. Namely, a desktop client could use a Mozilla user-agent, scrape Twitter.com, grab an authenticity_token, and then do a simple HTTP form submission with plaintext username/password. From there, the client could do whatever outlawed actions aren't possible from Web apps. While you could presumably find some commonalities with these logins for a time, probably the only effective way to counter this approach is to introduce login captchas. And that's an ugly barrier to entry for the average user. Restricting Web-based apps will presumably shift the policed behavior to such desktop apps, where it would probably morph into something even more destructive. As a web-based developer, I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer. And it's really disheartening to hear that carte blanche limitations are now being imposed. There are obvious legitimate uses for recurring dynamic tweets (e.g., NBC announcing show schedules/guests, or fitness apps tweeting how many miles you ran). Blocking such behavior across the board seems incredibly short-sighted and limits further important business- oriented development in this area. PB On Oct 13, 12:47 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM, PJB pjbmancun...@gmail.com wrote: Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Please explain this statement? -Chad Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS. Regardless of whether or not that provides a useful service -- I'm not going to start debating that -- the fact of the matter is it *is* a violation of the TOS. Plain and simple. Why shouldn't they be allowed (as if we have a say what a private company does with their own resources) to ban an app that violates the TOS with one of their own options? I see, so then sites like mapmyrun and others that, for example, tweet Bob ran 10 miles today in 2 hours, Bob ran 12 miles today in 1 hour, and other templated text, are also in violation of the terms? Or what about hootsuite where I can queue up 100 tweets with the exact same text to fire off every hour, perhaps interspersed with a second tweet? The bottom line is that this situation isn't as black and white as you think, and Twitter's approach is wrong-headed.
[twitter-dev] Re: /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string
How are you showing $query? If you're just doing print $query in a browser, the XML wouldn't show up in the window. You could either set the Content-type: text/plain before outputting $query, or by checking view source. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 22:37, ArnieLapinig arnie.lapi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I hope someone can help my query with the REST API /users/show.xml doesn't seem to be returning an xml string... I'm getting strange data back from my query. Here's the code: $twitterHost = 'http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=' . urlencode($lookforname); $curl = curl_init(); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_CONNECTTIMEOUT, 2); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HEADER, false); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTPAUTH, CURLAUTH_BASIC); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_USERPWD, $username: $password); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTP_VERSION, CURL_HTTP_VERSION_1_1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_URL, $twitterHost); $query = curl_exec($curl); and here's what i'm getting: $twitterHoststring(59) http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_onehttp://twitter.com/users/show.xml?%0Ascreen_name=mandarine_one $query string(2023) 32432559 anton mandarine_one Neuburg an der Donau Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg http://www.grizzlyfear.de false 159 EBEBEB 33 99 F3F3F3 DFDFDF 238 Fri Apr 17 14:49:15 + 2009 23 3600 Berlin http://a1.twimg.com/profile_background_images/41257908/8edd7_014-sergeypoluse.jpg true 2129 false false false false Tue Oct 13 17:19:41 + 2009 4839657896 @_Schnucki_ madame sie gruseln mir die scheisse aus dem leid. du schreibst von stromschlag und bei mir geht das licht aus #scary a target='_blank' href=http://www.atebits.com/; rel=nofollowTweetie/a false 4839540863 50962463 false _Schnucki_ when i paste http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_onehttp://twitter.com/users/show.xml?%0Ascreen_name=mandarine_one into the browser, i get an xml string: user id32432559/id nameanton/name screen_namemandarine_one/screen_name locationNeuburg an der Donau/location description Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. /description profile_image_url http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg /profile_image_url urlhttp://www.grizzlyfear.de/url protectedfalse/protected etc etc etc etc... Am I making some sort of basic mistake? Thanks for helping... -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string
I just ran your exact code, and was able to pull an xml string just fine, so I do not believe it is your code. The only thing I can think is you may want to curl_close() the connection, perhaps there is some caching or other similar thing in effect, though that is a big long shot. Maybe try curl on the command line, on the same host, and see what your results are, if that works, you can start looking at your code, otherwise, it may just be an temporary glitch in the API. You may want to look into doing some more testing in your command though, return the headers, and look at the http responses, so you know when you have a 200 ok one, versus some of the others, in which case you will want to be abel to gracefully degrade your application in some way. Sorry I could not be of more help. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * On Oct 13, 2009, at 9:37 PM, ArnieLapinig wrote: Hello, I hope someone can help my query with the REST API /users/show.xml doesn't seem to be returning an xml string... I'm getting strange data back from my query. Here's the code: $twitterHost = 'http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=' . urlencode($lookforname); $curl = curl_init(); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_CONNECTTIMEOUT, 2); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HEADER, false); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTPAUTH, CURLAUTH_BASIC); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_USERPWD, $username: $password); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_HTTP_VERSION, CURL_HTTP_VERSION_1_1); curl_setopt($curl, CURLOPT_URL, $twitterHost); $query = curl_exec($curl); and here's what i'm getting: $twitterHoststring(59) http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_one $query string(2023) 32432559 anton mandarine_one Neuburg an der Donau Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg http://www.grizzlyfear.de false 159 EBEBEB 33 99 F3F3F3 DFDFDF 238 Fri Apr 17 14:49:15 + 2009 23 3600 Berlin http://a1.twimg.com/profile_background_images/41257908/8edd7_014-sergeypoluse.jpg true 2129 false false false false Tue Oct 13 17:19:41 + 2009 4839657896 @_Schnucki_ madame sie gruseln mir die scheisse aus dem leid. du schreibst von stromschlag und bei mir geht das licht aus #scary a target='_blank' href=http://www.atebits.com/; rel=nofollowTweetie/a false 4839540863 50962463 false _Schnucki_ when i paste http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=mandarine_one into the browser, i get an xml string: user id32432559/id nameanton/name screen_namemandarine_one/screen_name locationNeuburg an der Donau/location description Mediengestalter, Nerd, Comic- und Musikliebhaber, nörgelt gerne über die Arbeit. /description profile_image_url http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/435301043/twitter_normal.jpg /profile_image_url urlhttp://www.grizzlyfear.de/url protectedfalse/protected etc etc etc etc... Am I making some sort of basic mistake? Thanks for helping...
