[Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
Wonder if Krivit sent the email to Rossi, Focardi, Celani, Levi and Piantelli? AG Jan. 15, 2012 * *LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index * *I continue to receive mixed responses about the media attention I give to the Widom-Larsen theory of LENRs. Regardless, my confidence in that theory has not changed. However, I have decided that it is both useful as well as fair to provide an opportunity to help present other LENR theories on the /New Energy Times/ Web site. Therefore, I have built portal pages for the following theories: Bazhutov-Vereshkov Theory Chubb (Scott) Theory Chubb (Talbot) Theory De Ninno Theory Fisher Theory Gareev Theory Hagelstein Theory Hora-Miley Theory Kim-Zubarev Theory Kirkinskii-Novikov Theory Kozima Theory Li Theory Sinha-Meulenberg Theory Szpak Theory Takahashi Theory You will find a link to each of these pages through the index page which is listed on the left-hand menu of the /New Energy Times /Web site under *LENR Theory Index*. If I am missing a theory in this index, please let me know. Note that I have omitted Randall Mills' theory because he does not associate his work with LENR. I have notified (where possible) the authors of these theories. I have sent them e-mails and requested them to contribute with additional information so I may better inform the public about their theories. But anyone can help out. Through the /New Energy Times /News Service, I am sending this message to nearly every LENR researcher in the world, to all the members of the CMNS e-mail list, as well as thousands of LENR fans worldwide. Please have a look at each of the sections for each of theories. If you can help provide factual and useful information about any of these theories, please send it to me. Please note, the purpose of these pages are to help promote the work of each theorist. The pages are not to be used to criticize the work of competing theorists. Thank you for your help. Steven B. Krivit Senior Editor, /New Energy Times / Editor-In-Chief, Wiley Nuclear Energy Encyclopedia 369-B Third Street | Suite 556 | San Rafael, California | USA 94901 T 310.470.8189 | M 310.721.5919 | F 213.226.4274 www.newenergytimes.com http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=7610273msgid=577106act=URR0c=229442destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newenergytimes.com%2F --- /Original reporting on leading-edge energy research and technologies /
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
if shielded in his lead replaceable cartridge, would that make it acceptable to UL, etc? There is some radiation from smoke detectors now. Smoke detectors don't work with gamma radiation, afaik. And shielding would take a lot more than the wall of a small cartridge for 512 keV gamma. The dose is important, of course, but the fact that gamma radiation occurs at all in detectable quantities is a killer for home use. You can run a nuclear facility with authorized, trained personnel after countless years of certification and under constant scrutiny of the authorities. In Germany you can't even do that anymore due to (misguided?) politicians. But doing it at home? Just imagine - two years after Fukujima a guy from Italy goes to market with a device that emits detectable gamma radiation, doesn't know or at least won't tell anybody how it really works or how it may behave in unforseen conditions - and the authorities just say Yes, ok, go ahead and sell it to everybody who wants one.? Its never going to happen that way. Probably a mute point since UL or TÜV or whoever won't ever see an e-cat anyway.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated "Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding." I must of missed that in the interview and will have another listen when I get time. This sounds to me that the heat used to heat the water is produced by the heating of the lead shield by the radiation rather than the heat from the actual reaction itself. So in effect the lead shield has become the heat exchanger. Is my interpretation correct? If so this could explain why Rossi doesn't use another material (similar to DGT) for the shielding. On 16/01/12 07:58, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron–positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... "512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected" 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
To each other. The total momentum is 0. 2012/1/16 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:unsubscribe
[Vo]:question on isotopes?
Does anyone know, are the energy levels of atoms effected at all by the number of neutrons? Is there a reference? Frank Znidarsic
[Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R.
[Vo]:over population not
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/15/rick-santorum-on-fox-news_n_1207478.html
Re: [Vo]:question on isotopes?
Maybe on hyperfine corrections or isotope effect on lighter atoms, but that's when it comes to binding or material properties. 2012/1/16 fznidar...@aol.com Does anyone know, are the energy levels of atoms effected at all by the number of neutrons? Is there a reference? Frank Znidarsic -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Can't this type of gamma rays be shielded (I think he meant 511 keV gammas)? Using google I found, e.g., the following (although I don't know how well the shielding works): http://www.corning.com/specialtymaterials/products_capabilities/radiation_shielding_glass/Med_Pet.aspx Further here http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=how%20to%20shield%20511%20kev%20gamma%20rayssource=webcd=1ved=0CB0QFjAAurl=http%3A%2F%2Frpop.iaea.org%2FRPOP%2FRPoP%2FContent%2FDocuments%2FTrainingPETCT%2FLectures%2FPETCT_L06_Protective_Equipment_WEB_.pptei=PRwUT7HPAdH7sgaV4YG7AQusg=AFQjCNHrlOvOzMONXpQShs8BoOzCShHAkQcad=rja They are talking about 3-5 cm of lead shielding which would be required. Levi, e.g., says that the majority of the reactors weight comes due to lead shielding (about 2cm). By the way: I tried to ask Rossi about this on his journal. Seems as if he didn't like the question... Defkalion however just answered that shielding is easy: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5375#p5375 They refer to this company: http://www.ecomass.com/index.html Wolf 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. Then why is he still alive - and how can he possibly claim to put serious effort in developing home units when from that factor alone it is abundantly clear that none of this technology will ever run anywhere that somebody calls home?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. And it's scions should be much improved. T
Re: [Vo]:unsubscribe
send it to: vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com T On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Randall Fink randylf...@comcast.net wrote:
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: By the way: I tried to ask Rossi about this on his journal. Seems as if he didn't like the question... Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. They only post questions and comments they wish to see. I have ceased to read both blogs. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. The Ing and the Snake. . . . It took me a while to decode that. It sounds like a 1990s cartoon show, like Pinky and the Brain. I have ceased to read both blogs. People read them? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding. In that case we'd be talking about liquid lead shielding. 3 cm would reduce 511 keV gamma by about 99%. Still - the equivalent of 10 kW x .01 would escape and Rossi would be dead, his product considered extremely hazardous and chances for a home unit below zero. Can't be.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Isn't that 1st costomer that is helping him build the small e-cats? I remember that by the end of last december, Rossi said he had a great breakthrough due to the collaboration with the customer. 2012/1/16 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. And it's scions should be much improved. T -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Another rumorist has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. In this case he uses has or the past tense - when the BBB would be in transit, if the 'rumorist' is right. Technically, it has not back *yet* but that does not mean it is not on the way back Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Yes, but AFAIK Rossi IS contractually obligated to eliminate the quiescence problem. Can he do that now? If so, hats-off to Rossi ! But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie, one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Side note: Edison too was both a great liar and a great inventor; and also shared Rossi's habit of borrowing ideas without attribution. He famously promised Nikola Tesla the equivalent of over a $million to significantly improve his DC generator, and when Tesla delivered, TAE reneged, saying: Tesla, you dont understand our American humor... leading Tesla to invent AC. Poetic justice. But Tesla was factually challenged himself, so this could be a common trait of many great inventors. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. Are you calling the first Mega-eCat the BBB? If so, you have inadvertently caught him in the lie already, no? Even if he is saying that he is repairing it on the customer's premises, the gist of the rumor, and the reason it pains Rossi so severely - is that the BBB presently has zero economic value. Not to mention that this is also the reason that he missed out on the DGT payment. Now we know there is a good reason for Rossi's ill-humor - 100,000,000 million reasons. If he is repairing BBB on the customer's premises, and it has not been returned, then yes I am guilty of spreading a partly inaccurate rumor on that detail only. But not on the main point that E-Cat does NOT work for extended periods running - and moreover, has zero economic value until it does work for more than a day or two. It never worked continuously for weeks or months to heat a factory - that is another big lie. In the end, Rossi is still no more than a pathological liar on most of his absurd claims, like the million unit factory. And if he wants to sue me for libel - then all the better. (I understand the situation - his wife is an Italian attorney). Unlike Italy, however, we have this little detail in the US court system call Discovery and the aftermath of discovery for Rossi would completely crush this man's gigantic over-inflated ego. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene wrote: But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. Many great inventors were accomplished liars. See Edison's quote about batteries: When a man gets on to accumulators [batteries] his inherent capacity for lying comes out. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie . . . No, it turns out that is a real person, but he spelled the name of the institution incorrectly. I don't recall the name, but anyway, Kelly is real. . . . one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Don't exaggerate. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
By the way, this quiescence problem does not exist as far as I know. Reliable people have observed Rossi's devices run continuously for days, and the one at the factory did run for months, as claimed. Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
I am not sure if the point being made is that there can't be gamma radiation or else Rossi would be dead, or that there is gamma radiation and so it will never be a home appliance. The indications so far are that radiation levels are small, but not zero. This may well allow for home usage eventually, but there will be a lot of work to get through approvals. A lot of data on the variation with time of the radiation would be needed, and it may be necessary to have detectors and a quench system to deal with spikes. All of this would mean a far better understanding of the system than currently appears to be the case, so I fear that products for use in the home may be some way off, but still possible. Nigel On 16/01/2012 15:46, Yamali Yamali wrote: In that case we'd be talking about liquid lead shielding. 3 cm would reduce 511 keV gamma by about 99%. Still - the equivalent of 10 kW x .01 would escape and Rossi would be dead, his product considered extremely hazardous and chances for a home unit below zero. Can't be.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
-Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. LOL ! That is about the lamest defense of AR I have heard. Hilarious really, this makes my day. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. Now why would that be? And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. It probably went into quiescence every night, and Rossi restarted it first thing in the morning. It does come back from quiescence, reportedly, but it does take knowledgeable staff to bring it back. That factor ruins its economic value. If Rossi could have gotten it to run continuously, DGT would not be the massive thorn in Rossi's foot that they are. He is hobbled by DGT, and they claim that they had the biggest part of the payment ready for Rossi, if he could pass the 48 hour test. When he could not pass that test (rumor is 12 hours only) then they were all smiles. It probably has something to do with why they chose the name Defkalion. All DGT had to do, once Rossi failed, was to sit back and wait for the egotist to publicly disavow the contract; and at that point - they could go out and hire the 40+ scientist that are now on their staff. That is where the 100 million is being spent, as we speak. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. Few are nearly as impressed with Rossi. Does he even have a competent staff? DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
I've limited my skeptical Rossi criticisms awaiting a new test or any sort of verifiable information. I commend maryyugo for pulling back (a bit) on her repeated arm waving of proof and independent testing, when no new information has been revealed. But, I agree with her that some of the fanbois need to pull back a little, too. This is one of the funniest things I've seen posted in a while: Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:13:54 -0500 From: jedrothw...@gmail.com Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. - Jed I've seen Rossi compared to Einstein, Edison, and Tesla: he's been called a genius more times than I can believe. Actions of fraud are dismissed as mafia conspiracies, and gold smuggling and money laundering is just ignored, because they're difficult. Let me be clear: Rossi, and his crew, have made erroneous and misleading statements. They should not be dismissed or ignored, but should be rightly considered in weighing the veracity of his claims. In the absence of reliable, independent tests, we are limited as to what evidence can be weighed. Where personal details would be irrelevent in most technical discussions, reliance upon the man's word has caused the man's character to be a weighting factor. I do not want to be accused of deceased-equine battery, but his past indiscretions make any contemporary misstatements all the more relevant. If, when subjected to harsh light, there is indeed a visible pathology... such evidence should be mentioned for the benefit of those that are still waiting for the scales to balance. To make repeated, and often ridiculous, excuses for his actions is to do a great disservice to those trying to make an informed analysis of his actions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. I have to speak up here. I have never read a Rossi lie, and I kept thinking that maybe I was just missing them, but if this is what you call a lie, then No, he is not lying. He's answering the question the way I would answer it, which is in the context of the question. If the question is Was it sent back?, then the implication is that it was returned as unusable with the sale revoked. Any other context in which it may have been returned is not relevant to the question and no other answer is correct. Craig
RE: [Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
From Aussie: Wonder if Krivit sent the email to Rossi, Focardi, Celani, Levi and Piantelli? AG Good question. What IS the name of the theory Rossi's camp endorses these days? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
I was referring to this statement: In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding. And as I read it, it would imply that the energetic equivalent of 10 kW (or whatever an e-cat produces) would have to be thermalized in the lead shielding from gamma rays. So if the shield is 3 cm, the equivalent of about 10 kW x .01 or about 100 W would escape in form of 511 keV gamma. Easily enough to kill Rossi over the countless hours he stood right next to his machines on youtube alone (unless his famous brown coat is stuffed with something very different than goose feathers). The thermalized radiation therory doesn't hold if the 3 cm of lead is all there is. --- Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk I am not sure if the point being made is that there can't be gamma radiation or else Rossi would be dead, or that there is gamma radiation and so it will never be a home appliance. The indications so far are that radiation levels are small, but not zero. This may well allow for home usage eventually, but there will be a lot of work to get through approvals. A lot of data on the variation with time of the radiation would be needed, and it may be necessary to have detectors and a quench system to deal with spikes. All of this would mean a far better understanding of the system than currently appears to be the case, so I fear that products for use in the home may be some way off, but still possible. Nigel
Re: [Vo]:Joe Zawodny comments on the Nasa LENR video
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately his expert opinion will be used to futher delay investment in LENR research in favour of pouring more money into god particles and hot fusion. Perhaps you missed this part: ... I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation ... ? That is a weak-kneed endoresement, which does not accurately reflect the progress in the field. You would expect that sort of caution 20 years ago, but it is no longer justified. He is just pandering to the power and influence of skeptical zealots. harry
Re: [Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:03 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: What IS the name of the theory Rossi's camp endorses these days? Proton capture. See Summary of Invention, particularly para 26: http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/USeCatPatentApplication.pdf But, as others have pointed out, electron/positron annihilation (para 35) results in a 511 keV photon and Rossi would be dead. T
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Ok. Yes it is true that DGT chose their name before Rossi failed the test, as I have been reminded just now. From previous post: When Rossi could not pass that test... [DGT] were all smiles. It probably has something to do with why they chose the name Defkalion. For those who are not aware: Deucalion = Defkalion = Noah Δευκαλίων - Deucalion or Defkalion. The two English translated names: Deucalion and Defkalion are the same individual, the son of Prometheus. Defkalion/Noah survived a great deluge or flooding, which had threatened all of Civilization by virtue of what can best be described as a container or box. A deluge is common in many oral traditions. Starting to sound familiar, metaphorically ? For Noah it was a large Ark. For Defkalion it is a smaller chest. It is not clear from Ovid if Defkalion's box was colored blue or not g Defkalion's aunt, notoriously, was a woman you have all heard of before - a curious gal named Pandora... the magic box shtick kinda runs in that family, no? Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. I have to speak up here. I have never read a Rossi lie, It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. In a recent post on Moletrap, Alsetalokin again raises the issues. Here are a few he mentions ( here: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2292page=32#Comment_163596) First there are gammas, then there are no gammas, then there are. First the COP is 20 or more, then it's six, then it's three or less. First there's a lot of lead, then the lead isn't necessary, then it's the main way heat is produced from the gammas. He keeps his hydrogen behind ordinary stainless steel fittings which are cycled to (claimed) high temperatures. Gahh... next we'll be told that the weird construction -- core inside, then water jacket, THEN the lead shielding -- is necessary to keep the hot lead from melting down. That is, the water cools the lead. Since the heat is produced in the lead, not the core itself wait a minute safety heater insulation... isotopes. Somebody hand me a #3 trepanning drill, quick, before my head umplodes. The more Rossi writes on his misnamed blog, the less credible he becomes.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. In a recent post on Moletrap, Alsetalokin again raises the issues. Here are a few he mentions ( here: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2292page=32#Comment_163596 ) First there are gammas, then there are no gammas, then there are. First the COP is 20 or more, then it's six, then it's three or less. First there's a lot of lead, then the lead isn't necessary, then it's the main way heat is produced from the gammas. He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. The COP can be either 20 or 6 or whatever he chooses. This is an arbitrary number determined by his ability to keep the reaction stable. This is consistent. If he said that the lead wasn't necessary, then that may be an inconsistency, but I didn't see him write that. If you can remember where it was, please post the link -- not that this really matters. The only thing that will matter is when and if Rossi starts selling more of these devices. But the more I read Rossi, the more consistent his actions are appearing to me to that of an engineer trying to deliver a new product. If you're looking for some world-revealing epiphany, you're not going to find it from him. That is not something he will deliver. Perhaps, last year, he was pondering some sort of independent test, but I think that fell apart when his deal with Defkalion fell apart. A business strategy is always a work-in-progress. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
From: Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. Well, Mary - inconsistencies may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. I am a bit surprised that Mary has not made a more thorough listing of them by now, even if some of them are only inconsistencies, and even if JR is correct that Rossi has the unique capacity to make the truth sound like a lie. Jones
[Vo]:What kind of a relationship has Krivit established with the W-L camp?
Mr. Krivit recently posted over at NET: LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index I continue to receive mixed responses about the media attention I give to the Widom-Larsen theory of LENRs. Regardless, my confidence in that theory has not changed. However, I have decided that it is both useful as well as fair to provide an opportunity to help present other LENR theories on the New Energy Times Web site. Therefore, I have built portal pages for the following theories: . I think it is encouraging news that Krivit has in a sense, come out of the closet. Krivit now states that it would be fair to post links to competing CF/LENR theories. It would suggest Mr. Krivit has become increasingly concerned about his perceived credibility. Perhaps Rossi's continued ability to somehow avoid self-destruction in spite of his flagrant carnival barking behavior, which in my view certainly makes Rossi appear as if he's a fraudster, has influenced Krivit's reevaluation - but who really knows. I could be wrong on this point but I suspect some of Mr. Krivit's concerns may have been influenced by a series of postings of a critical nature originating from the Vort Collective. But I hasten to add that that's just a wild guess on my part. I appreciate the fact that Mr. Krivit has been upfront to his readers in the sense that that he continues to hold great confidence in the merits of the Widom-Larsen theory. Of course, Krivit's intentions have been obvious to everyone for a very long time. The catch here is that to come out of the closet and confess his confidence, by default, means Mr. Krivit has now stated categorically that in his opinion no other theory can stand up to the merits of the W-L theory. Such an admission should alert readers to the fact that Krivit's news gathering service cannot be perceived as impartial insofar as reporting on LENR developments are concerned. By default, admitting his confidence means Krivit has transformed NET into an ADVOCATE for the Widom-Larsen theory. By default, that also implies that any other theoretical camp that is not in the W-L camp are essentially fare game - to be relentlessly picked away at. IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with following such an approach in regards to the gathering of CF/LENR news. In fact, I suggested to MR. Krivit that he admit as much to himself and to his readers back when I was still a BoD member for NET - before I was asked to resign. My recollection was that Mr. Krivit told me he did not want NET to be perceived as playing the role of an advocate. But for Krivit to publicly admit his confidence by default has, in my view, effectively transformed NET into an advocate for the W-L theory. However, I'm not entirely sure that Mr. Krivit understands this. Again, IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with following such an approach. As Joseph Campbell was fond of saying, Follow Your Bliss! ... and all doors will be open to you. All this really means is that NET is following a similar agenda that the Pure Energy Systems (PESN) web site is following. PESN publicly discloses the relationship they have established with Andrea Rossi: http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During _Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_ Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ http://tinyurl.com/7qlto4l http://tinyurl.com/7qlto4l Full Disclosure: PES Network has a business relationship with Andrea Rossi. Insofar as Mr. Krivit's latest admission is concerned, there still remains an important matter of disclosure that needs clearing up. What kind of a relationship has Mr. Krivit established with those affiliated with the Widom-Larsen camp? Could it be some form of a business relationship? Could it be promised exclusivity to breaking news events in the W-L camp? We just don't know the particulars. Any organization that assumes the role of an advocate, one can be assured, has by default established some kind of a unique exclusive relationship. Having entered into such a relationship means that Mr. Krivit will also feel their joy as well as their disappointment. As such, Mr. Krivit will act accordingly in what he chooses to publish out at NET. IMHO, Mr. Krivit's readership deserve to know the ramifications of that relationship. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a “mail order” degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell’s rationalization about George Kelly – that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. We found George Kelly. Did you miss that post? How do you know that Rossi is not gearing-up for production in Florida? He may be doing that. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Good grief. What is it with the Windom-Larson crowd? I mean while I'm skeptical that anyone has the theory to explain any of this yet, I will admit that Windom-Larson may be right. But still, why the religious wars? What's wrong with these people? On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R. Rossi sometimes plays word games. Jones did not claim that it was given back. His comment is more like it was returned for repairs. That is correct. Not only that, Rossi has all the characteristics of a pathological liar, and liars like to use tense to advantage. You know: the meaning of is. In this case he uses has or the past tense - when the BBB would be in transit, if the 'rumorist' is right. Technically, it has not back *yet* but that does not mean it is not on the way back Given back implies that a refund will be requested. Jones implicated that there will be no such request. Yes, but AFAIK Rossi IS contractually obligated to eliminate the quiescence problem. Can he do that now? If so, hats-off to Rossi ! But even if he can do this with better controls, and proves himself to be close to the great inventor he imagines himself to be, he is still a liar. We knew that back when Rossi invented a Board member, George Kelly, which is a complete lie, one of hundreds, even borrowing the name of a deceased faculty member at UNH. This is one of many needless fabrications, and needless is a reason why this personality defect is pathological. Side note: Edison too was both a great liar and a great inventor; and also shared Rossi's habit of borrowing ideas without attribution. He famously promised Nikola Tesla the equivalent of over a $million to significantly improve his DC generator, and when Tesla delivered, TAE reneged, saying: “Tesla, you don’t understand our American humor”... leading Tesla to invent AC. Poetic justice. But Tesla was factually challenged himself, so this could be a common trait of many great inventors. Rossi has admitted elsewhere that he is presently repairing the first Mega-eCat with new gaskets and controls. Are you calling the first Mega-eCat the BBB? If so, you have inadvertently caught him in the lie already, no? Even if he is saying that he is repairing it on the customer's premises, the gist of the rumor, and the reason it pains Rossi so severely - is that the BBB presently has zero economic value. Not to mention that this is also the reason that he missed out on the DGT payment. Now we know there is a good reason for Rossi's ill-humor - 100,000,000 million reasons. If he is repairing BBB on the customer's premises, and it has not been returned, then yes I am guilty of spreading a partly inaccurate rumor on that detail only. But not on the main point that E-Cat does NOT work for extended periods running - and moreover, has zero economic value until it does work for more than a day or two. It never worked continuously for weeks or months to heat a factory - that is another big lie. In the end, Rossi is still no more than a pathological liar on most of his absurd claims, like the million unit factory. And if he wants to sue me for libel - then all the better. (I understand the situation - his wife is an Italian attorney). Unlike Italy, however, we have this little detail in the US court system call Discovery and the aftermath of discovery for Rossi would completely crush this man's gigantic over-inflated ego. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Jed and Terry sez: Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. The Ing and the Snake. . . . It took me a while to decode that. It sounds like a 1990s cartoon show, like Pinky and the Brain. I have ceased to read both blogs. People read them? Of course people read them. Especially neophyte believers for a particular cause - and the rabid skeptics that accompany them. Meanwhile, card carrying members residing in the peanut gallery do their best not to get hit by all the flying glass. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Having said all that - let me be clear that good evidence still indicates Rossi has invented a robust energy anomaly. That is where myself and Yugo part company. She believes that the dishonesty extends to everything, but that is wrong. At the bottom of it all, there is enough proof from other honest sources, and from 22 years of positive RD - that this energy anomaly is now ready for prime time - that we should not abandon Rossi altogether. Thank Zeus for DGT and the other unnamed Labs that are on this. In effect, this conundrum (of what is true and what is not) is precisely why Rossi's inherent dishonesty is so devastating to those of us who have followed this field for all these years. Were it not for Defkalion, society could be on the verge of losing this technology altogether. From: Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. Well, Mary - inconsistencies may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. I am a bit surprised that Mary has not made a more thorough listing of them by now, even if some of them are only inconsistencies, and even if JR is correct that Rossi has the unique capacity to make the truth sound like a lie. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: LOL ! That is about the lamest defense of AR I have heard. Hilarious really, this makes my day. I am not defending him. I am describing him. He has difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. Now why would that be? It is his personality. I have met other like that. And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. I have heard from reliable people who observed it operate over long periods of time. I have a photo of the machine and a description of it. It probably went into quiescence every night, and Rossi restarted it first thing in the morning. No, it did not. You should not speculate so freely. You are wrong about this, and you are making yourself look silly. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. I was the one who reported that! I have spoken to those visitors at length. DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Probably they will. I think they still hope to reconcile with him, and I hope they can. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Mary Yugo It's not so much proven lies as it is constant inconsistencies, vagueness, tangential answers to obviously relevant and harmless questions, spouting off about snakes and clowns, and general avoidance of credible answers. ** ** Well, Mary – “inconsistencies” may be what it is about most recently, but early-on, it was about big lies. Yes, you're right. I was speaking only about recently. After all, what honest person would name a silly, heavily censored blog The Journal of Nuclear Science?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: And, as to the factory being heated continuously, this is still only his word for it, or visitors who saw it running when they were there on occasion. I have heard from reliable people who observed it operate over long periods of time. I have a photo of the machine and a description of it. Even so, that does not prove it operated at all, much less continuously. As to those who observed it operate, it would be easy to bamboozle them if they did not do independent tests. Yes - you will counter that DGT is not honest either, but recent visitors have seen the staff and the facilities and are favorably impressed. I was the one who reported that! I have spoken to those visitors at length. Please tell us what independent tests they performed on Defkalion equipment. Also see my questions to Defkalion and the COMPLETELY NONRESPONSIVE EVASIVE REPLY here: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5389#p5389 DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Probably they will. I think they still hope to reconcile with him, and I hope they can. I doubt very much that Defkalion is going to eat anyone's lunch. They can't even respond properly to simple direct questions of what should be entirely public information.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: But, I agree with her that some of the fanbois need to pull back a little, too. This is one of the funniest things I've seen posted in a while: Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:13:54 -0500 From: jedrothw...@gmail.com ** *Rossi gives the appearance of lying more than he actually lies. He has* *difficulty telling the truth in a way that does not make it look like a lie. * - Jed . . . To make repeated, and often ridiculous, excuses for his actions is to do a great disservice to those trying to make an informed analysis of his actions. What the hell is that supposed to mean?! You and Beene are both off your rockers on this. I am saying that Rossi cannot help making himself look like a liar. If that is defending what could I say that would be attack? If that is a compliment, what would an insult be? Rossi cannot bring himself to tell a simple truth in a way that is convincing. Even when he has the truth on his side, he makes it look like a lie. He also makes careless mistakes such as misidentifying where George Kelly works. He is an annoying person. However, as far as I know, he has not told many lies. I have not caught him telling any about the technical capabilities of his machines. As far as I know he has not lied, although it is obvious from the compendium of his statements that I compiled that he has contradicted himself, he is confused, and his statements do not conform to conventional theory. He has lied about various things, including me, so I am well aware that he does sometimes lie. He is too clever by half. The statements made by Beene may not be lies. He probably believes them. But some of them are completely wrong. I suppose it is pure speculation or unfounded rumors. It is irresponsible to post such things. It is tantamount to a lie, and no better than what Rossi does. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de mailto:yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Smoke detectors don't work with gamma radiation, afaik. Maybe with very VERY thick smoke? Just imagine - two years after Fukujima a guy from Italy goes to market with a device that emits detectable gamma radiation, doesn't know or at least won't tell anybody how it really works or how it may behave in unforseen conditions - and the authorities just say Yes, ok, go ahead and sell it to everybody who wants one.? Its never going to happen that way. Well said! That's pretty funny. I agree that does sound unlikely. I think the only way it could happen would be if government regulators opposed to cold fusion refuse to admit the machine is real, and allow it only because they claim it does not exist. Stranger things have happened. If there is any measurable gamma radiation from this thing, with or without shielding, I too predict it will never be allowed for private use. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I think the only way it could happen would be if government regulators opposed to cold fusion refuse to admit the machine is real, and allow it only because they claim it does not exist. Nonsense. First, almost nobody is opposed to cold fusion. Why in the world would anyone be opposed to a plentiful source of new, clean energy? Would people be opposed to hot fusion if it could be shown to economically feasible and safe? Would they be open to a new process to better extract energy from sunlight? Would they be opposed to a new find of huge amounts of natural gas? The idea that cold fusion isn't accepted because of some vague but highly evil conspiracy to oppose it is purely ridiculous. If Rossi or Defkalion's claims are real, which is looking less and likely with every day that passes, then no government regulator opposed to cold fusion could stop them. What would they say to a dozen clean and clear tests proving that those robust claims are valid? What could anyone possibly say if several prestigious test labs and universities verified those claims? What could they say when millions of machines poured out of Chinese, Indian, Mexican, or other country's factories? The conspiracy theory of why cold fusion isn't a proven and useful technology is crazy.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Craig - Did you catch Rossi's interview Friday? He said straight out: we are in mass production in Miami. Problem is, efforts have been ongoing for some time to locate any factory with the proper permits from OSHA or other agencies, anywhere in Florida - and there are none that come up. You cannot easily hide such a facility in the USA, especially not Miami, due to tourism. There are strict regulations on toxic metals and on welding in general. Nanometric nickel is considered toxic by OSHA. And does Rossi really think he can cover up a US factory in mass production that produces a product the emits gammas? It does NOT matter how well it is shielded. You still must go through NRC and get a permit. And I do not necessarily agree that you found George Kelly... In looking at the post, you seem to admit there is a mystery guy at DoE with that name who has no connection to UNH, but did you contact him to ask him if he knows Rossi? In effect, someone (probably Cassarino) found one of a 100,000 George Kelly's in the USA (common name) - and this one works for DoE, so magically - this solves the problem. Is there more? If this Kelly works for DoE - taxpayer funded - there is no reason he should not be interviewed. My apologies if I missed another post somewhere; but a guy at DoE named George Kelly who says that yes, I am the one Rossi's Board that is what solves the problem, not the name alone. IOW we the taxpayers, funded the TEG fiasco at UNH, and we deserve answers to where that money disappeared to, with little to show. And were the two fires investigated ??? That has the stink of Petrodragon written all over it. Moreover, there was a famous George Kelly at UNH, now deceased, whose name Rossi would have heard, when he was there. This is more probable, without asking the new GK for confirmation. Hey look, you may want Rossi the man to be real, instead of just the technology - but please do not be so gullible as to overlook a mountain of contrary evidence. These problems - if there were only one of two - are a forgivable molehill. This one seems more like a volcano ready to blow. Jones -Original Message- From: Craig Haynie On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Are you saying his denial of culpability in the sordid Petrodragon affair is not a big lie? Or the money laundering - or the claim that he did not know that he had a mail order degree? Or the many lies about the TEG project? And, as for Rothwell's rationalization about George Kelly - that is one lie to cover up another one. Did he misspell Frank Smith as George Kelly? Mass production in Miami is a lie. The million unit robotic factory is a lie. The list goes on and on. We found George Kelly. Did you miss that post? How do you know that Rossi is not gearing-up for production in Florida? He may be doing that. Craig attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Also see my questions to Defkalion and the COMPLETELY NONRESPONSIVE EVASIVE REPLY here: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5389#p5389 LOL. I got this response from Defkalion: You have been permanently banned from this board. Please contact the Board Administrator for more information. A ban has been issued on your IP address. How Steornish can they get? What did I do to merit this ban? I asked them pointed questions about their certification process. I told them to stop patronizing me with that stupid grasshopper thing Jed started and that's about all. I guess they got enough truth for one day. Oh yeah. I told them they're not a bit credible. And they're even less so now. Only miscreants, who are lying, ban polite critics. It's a hallmark of fraud. Keep that in mind. Bans don't work and they serve mainly to make the outfit doing the ban look bad. Seems to me, talking about excess heat, Defkalion can't take any.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. Actually no. It is impossible. You can't shield gamma rays completely. You could shield them enough to be so few that they would be undetectable. But if Rossi says he generates the heat by thermalizing them, then the e-cats don't have anywhere near enough mass to accomplish that. 1ev equals 1.6 × 10-19 joules. The supposedly 30 mm of lead would catch a little less than 99%. The devices generate about 10 kW. Rossi is alive. It just doesn't make any sense - unless... well... maybe thermalizing gamma is just a second job or doesn't happen at all.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Ok, thanks! I'm just so busy that I don't have time to listen or read all that is going in with LENR. Which is one of the reasons I monitor Vortex... -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat [mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron-positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yamali is exactly right. You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. There is essentially ZERO chance of selling this kind of reactor in the USA without NRC permit. EEC would be similar. From: Yamali Yamali He has always said that there are gamma rays. He shields them with lead. There are no gamma rays leaving the device. This is all consistent. Actually no. It is impossible. You can't shield gamma rays completely. You could shield them enough to be so few that they would be undetectable. But if Rossi says he generates the heat by thermalizing them, then the e-cats don't have anywhere near enough mass to accomplish that. 1ev equals 1.6 × 10-19 joules. The supposedly 30 mm of lead would catch a little less than 99%. The devices generate about 10 kW. Rossi is alive. It just doesn't make any sense - unless... well... maybe thermalizing gamma is just a second job or doesn't happen at all.
Re: [Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
The links are here: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TheoryIndex.shtml Krivit wrote: I continue to receive mixed responses about the media attention I give to the Widom-Larsen theory of LENRs. Regardless, my confidence in that theory has not changed. In my opinion, Krivit is not qualified to have a strong opinion about cold fusion theory. I am not qualified either, so it is difficult for me to judge, but he does not appear to know enough about physics to evaluate theory. I know several experimentalists such as Mizuno and Ohmori who told me they are not qualified to judge this. Mizuno told me he has no idea which theory, if any, might explain cold fusion. Mizuno knows far more about chemistry and physics than I do, or than Krivit does. If he cannot make head or tail of these theories, I would be very surprised if Krivit can. The arguments in favor of the W-L theory that Krivit makes merely parrot what Larsen says. What I am saying is that if you were to force Krivit to take an undergraduate written test with questions about modern nuclear theory, I expect he would fail it. He is in way over his head. I say that based on what I have heard him say on his own. Anyone can parrot what Larsen says, or Takahashi says. I have edited enough theory papers that I could probably write a convincing-sounding summary of some theories, and it might give you the mistaken impression I know what I am talking about. I know I would fail such a test. My knowledge of nuclear physics ended with undergraduate physics and books such as Teller and Latter, Our Nuclear Future (1958) which I recommend, and Asimov, The Atom (1991). See: http://www.amazon.com/Atom-Journey-Across-Subatomic-Cosmos/dp/0452268346 Click on Look inside and table of contents and you will see how much I know about nuclear physics. I have read comments here and elsewhere by people who do not know this much. I advise them to read this book or something similar. A person should know his own limitations. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. That is what experts in radiation say. Actually, you could stop them with enough lead. I believe it takes ~10 cm. If you had 1 m there would be no measurable radiation on the other side. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hey look, you may want Rossi the man to be real, instead of just the technology - but please do not be so gullible as to overlook a mountain of contrary evidence. What does this mean? How could he be fake, and yet the technology is real? Are you suggesting he stole the idea? That is the only way he could not be real as far as I can imagine. As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. Focardi and everyone else who has worked with him say he discovered it. Therefore he is real in every sense that matters. His personal habits and proclivities have nothing to do with it. Robert Stroud was a homicidal lunatic and a pathological liar, imprisoned in solitary confinement for 54 years until his death. As an individual, he was probably the most notorious and evil famous biologist in history. But his personality and criminal record have *absolutely no bearing* on his scientific claims. Those claims are real, important, and justifiably celebrated. No one disputes them. His book is still in print: http://www.amazon.com/Strouds-Digest-Diseases-Robert-Stroud/dp/0866227318/ I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. Rossi has been independently replicated by Defkalion. I have no doubt about that. I hope they will make public some of independent tests soon. Since Rossi has passed that test, all discussion of his personality should be off the table. This is a science forum, not the *National Enquirer*. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. So, if I understand you correctly, if a car dealership had been convicted of fraud in two major cases over the years, that would be your choice of a source for a used car?
RE: [Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
Jed sez: ... I know I would fail such a test. My knowledge of nuclear physics ended with undergraduate physics and books such as Teller and Latter, Our Nuclear Future (1958) which I recommend, and Asimov, The Atom (1991). See: http://www.amazon.com/Atom-Journey-Across-Subatomic-Cosmos/dp/0452268346 Click on Look inside and table of contents and you will see how much I know about nuclear physics. I have read comments here and elsewhere by people who do not know this much. I advise them to read this book or something similar. A person should know his own limitations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2cux_6Rcw Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
That depends on how many gamma rays you're dealing with. Its just stochastics. A certain fraction will allways get through. All the shielding does is to reduce the likelihood for each one. So even 1 m solid lead won't reduce radiation to unmeasurable levels if there's enough of it inside. Jed Rothwell wrote: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You simply CANNOT shield this kind of gamma radiation well with lead. Some always escapes. That is what experts in radiation say. Actually, you could stop them with enough lead. I believe it takes ~10 cm. If you had 1 m there would be no measurable radiation on the other side.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy when reassociating into molecular hydrogen. This is a HUGE amount of energy. The energy released is in the form of 277 nm photons which are absorbed by almost any matter. It sure isn't cold fusion. And it might explain what goes on inside the Rossi Reactor. T
[Vo]:'Spooky action at distance': Physicists develop first conclusive test to better understand high-energy particles correlations
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120116112608.htm ScienceDaily (2012-01-16) -- Researchers have devised a proposal for the first conclusive experimental test of a phenomenon known as 'Bell's nonlocality.' This test is designed to reveal correlations that are stronger than any classical correlations, and do so between high-energy particles that do not consist of ordinary matter and light. These results are relevant to the so-called 'CP violation' principle, which is used to explain the dominance of matter over antimatter. mic
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:09 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.commailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot understand why Rossi's personality, his problems, and alleged problems are an issue here in this forum. Why do you -- Jones -- have such difficulty separating the person from the claim!?? Why do you have this weird obsession with Rossi's business deals?? It makes no sense to me. It is like being obsessed with a scientist's sex life or the kind of food he eats. So, if I understand you correctly, if a car dealership had been convicted of fraud in two major cases over the years, that would be your choice of a source for a used car?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: All the shielding does is to reduce the likelihood for each one. So even 1 m solid lead won't reduce radiation to unmeasurable levels if there's enough of it inside. I meant the most you can get with a 10 kW hot fusion reaction. A few might get through but they would be hidden in the background noise from other sources. They could not cause health problems. Obviously if the reactor is as powerful as the sun, 1 m is not enough. I visited an underground linear accelerator on the campus at Hokkaido U. They have doors of 1 m thick lead. The door is mounted on railroad tracks. - Jed
[Vo]:LENR G Silver Currency
I really don't think there is any direct connection between precious metals and modern currencies. Last I heard: Today's Currencies are based on the price of oil in $USD since a large part of the World's Oil Supply is only traded in terms of $USD aka the Petrodollar Has anything definitively changed? (On another topicI think this is how the leading US export is freshly printed dollars!!!LOL) From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR is not a disruptive technology... Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:53:11 -0800 Eric, I suggest you read my entire posting… I was being facetious, and stated that ‘disruptive’ is not going far enough.-m From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:45 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:LENR is not a disruptive technology... LENR would be quite disruptive if it even replaced 10 percent of the world energy supply over the next twenty years. If it turns out to be bona fide and something that can be commercialized (hopefully we'll get a sense of this soon), and barring some unforeseen impediment to its widespread adoption, it's not difficult to imagine that it could replace well beyond 10 percent of the energy supply over time. As a thought experiment, assume that LENR effectively makes energy free during the next 100 years. Find some activity of concern to the majority of people on the planet that is limited in some way by scarcity -- agricultural production, water distribution, the generation of heat and electricity, heavy manufacturing, transportation, housing. The cost of these activities would go down significantly. It's hard to even get a sense of what the implications of such a development would be. Now consider the possibility of mass scale production of isotopes by way of controlled transmutation. It would be an understatement to say that this would be disruptive. Precious metals would become commodities, and the already tenuous connection between gold and silver and the monetary supply would probably be broken. But more worryingly, it might be possible to order up as much uranium-235 as you want. So for the sake of widespread, unencumbered adoption of LENR, let's hope that energy production becomes easy and transmutation of heavier elements proves to be difficult or impossible. Eric On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:AussieGuy wrote:“Transmutation of elements via the FPE may replace mining.” It’ll do more than that… it’ll kill the entire precious metals business which has been a foundation for countries’ *monetary systems*. What affect that will have on economic systems, and countries, is probably not going to be pretty… in the beginning. With energy being extremely cheap, it will drive down the cost of just about everything from raw materials to completed products… and it’ll be much cheaper to transport those things to the point of consumption, so we’re talking about much lower cost for most *everything*.It wouldn’t surprise me if govts stepped in to bring in the changes gradually… But how does one decide what to do when this is probably unlike anything that has ever happened; nothing to go on. *To call LENR a ‘disruptive’ technology doesn’t even begin to describe it!* -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 04:15 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jed Rothwelljedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy when reassociating into molecular hydrogen. This is a HUGE amount of energy. The energy released is in the form of 277 nm photons which are absorbed by almost any matter. It sure isn't cold fusion. And it might explain what goes on inside the Rossi Reactor. Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . Okay, Rossi discovered this Langmuir Torch, or whatever the heck it is. Who cares? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: ** Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. Sorry, I miss your point. I was noting that Jed would likely not buy from someone convicted multiple times of fraud but he's buying the claims from Rossi who has been similarly convicted and who, by Jed's own admission, lies all the time. How is that a defective analogy exactly? The cars may be real and even functional but because there are many fraudulent ways to make a car appear newer and more functional than it is, it would be unwise to trust a used car dealer who has been previously convicted of doctoring his odometers or cars or whatever. Perhaps you haven't shopped for a used car. Not to get too far off on a tangent like Jed likes to, you should try to visit a chop shop. In one not far from where I live, you can peek into cracks in the tall fence and watch sweaty grubby people who look like they live on the street, assembling vehicles from scraps and chunks of other (wrecked) vehicles. When they're done, they just shove stray and excess parts and wiring harnesses anywhere they can. Then, the misaligned and dangerous, unreliable messes that result are given Mexican upholstery and a meticulous paint job, and sold to unwary people at discounts, usually masquerading as private sales to avoid having to provide a salvage title. I realize this may not mean much to our out of country friends-- it applies to the Southwestern US mainly but I bet the principle applies widely.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Tests on his device. Despite the handwaving and nonsense published here by Yugo and others, these tests are irrefutable. There is not slightest chance of fraud. I refuse to rehash that with you. If you believe that those tests were irrefutable, no rational discussion about it is possible with you. 2. Independent tests by Ampenergo and others. Unpublished, unverified and if done, likely by friends of Rossi's. Ampenergo has no meaningful web or other presence that anyone knows about and has never shown a single product or test. What if anything they have done, other than claim publicly in NyTeknik that they gave considerable money to Rossi, is unclear. They are certainly not a reliable source of test information. Same with others. What is the value is citing anonymous others? 3. Independent replication by Defkalion. Who are most likely not telling the truth and who have shown no working product whatever. Great source they are. They recently banned me from their forum and removed both my question and their answers when I reminded them that a Greek Minister had directly contradicted them in an interview about their supposed submission of a device for testing or an application of any sort to the Greek authorities. That minister's interview, by the way, was discussed on Vortex previously here: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51035.html You can't ask for better proof. I mean that literally: there is no such thing as better proof. Only more of the same. You're really getting way way out there now!. No such thing as better proof? A test by a major university would not be better proof? A test by Oak Ridge National Lab or Sandia or CERN would not be better? Hell, even a woowoo-ite like Josephson could provide more reliable data if he tested Rossi's kludges independently. I am starting to think you've lost it when you argue that there is no better proof than the patchwork of equivocation, bad experiments, lengthy if amusing arguments, and wildly incredible Rossi evasion we have now. This is so misguided . . . Yugo has no concept of separating a person from a claim. So then, you would buy a used car from a person twice convicted of used car fraud? Great -- you must have an interesting purchase history. I am s glad I put her on my auto-delete list! I believe in your case, that is called the Ostrich Syndrome. In Defkalion's case, banning me from their forum is very very Steornish. Truth to a scammer is like sunlight to a vampire.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWH to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWH), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . Okay, Rossi discovered this Langmuir Torch, or whatever the heck it is. Who cares?] I'll tell you why you should care. It is a proven fact that the surface of metals cause the dissociation of H2 and D2. It has also been observed that CF reactions occur near the surface of Pd and seems to be related to defects in the crystalline structure. If such a void exists, it is conceivable that enough recombination energy is released in these voids that hot fusion of D2 could literally occur within these voids when hundreds or thousands of D atoms recombine into molecular deuterium. This idea is not unlike what happens in sonoluminescence. Look, McKubre says that he does not find the transmutations in his samples other than He and tritium. If thousands of 277 nm photons are suddenly released within a void of the crystal of Pd, you could have the creation of a little sun for a brief period with enough energy to cause fusion. This could be an extremely trivial explanation for cold fusion. T
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Even if it is assembled from stolen parts, or has excess miles or has a salvage title ( I've restored seven salvage cars to legal, functional status in NYS), or whatever, we're still dealing with a real, functional car. It exists. I think there is a remarkable real effect underlying all this Rossi stuff. From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:34 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.commailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Defective analogy. The cars for sale are real and functional, aren't they? Even if the business is dishonest. Sorry, I miss your point. I was noting that Jed would likely not buy from someone convicted multiple times of fraud but he's buying the claims from Rossi who has been similarly convicted and who, by Jed's own admission, lies all the time. How is that a defective analogy exactly? The cars may be real and even functional but because there are many fraudulent ways to make a car appear newer and more functional than it is, it would be unwise to trust a used car dealer who has been previously convicted of doctoring his odometers or cars or whatever. Perhaps you haven't shopped for a used car. Not to get too far off on a tangent like Jed likes to, you should try to visit a chop shop. In one not far from where I live, you can peek into cracks in the tall fence and watch sweaty grubby people who look like they live on the street, assembling vehicles from scraps and chunks of other (wrecked) vehicles. When they're done, they just shove stray and excess parts and wiring harnesses anywhere they can. Then, the misaligned and dangerous, unreliable messes that result are given Mexican upholstery and a meticulous paint job, and sold to unwary people at discounts, usually masquerading as private sales to avoid having to provide a salvage title. I realize this may not mean much to our out of country friends-- it applies to the Southwestern US mainly but I bet the principle applies widely.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond? Geeze, Stephen, don't you pay attention? Molecular hydrogen IS dissociated at the surface of metals. There's hundreds of accepted papers on this. It's how metal crystals are loaded. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWH to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWH), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? No, thanks for checking my math. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 04:55 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: Say what? Where's all that atomic hydrogen coming from? Are we back to splitting molecules using ZPE, or is there some other energy source breaking the bond? Geeze, Stephen, don't you pay attention? Molecular hydrogen IS dissociated at the surface of metals. There's hundreds of accepted papers on this. It's how metal crystals are loaded. Sure, sure, but you still can't do it, *and* free the hydrogen from the metal surface again again so it can re-associate, without getting the energy to split the bond from SOMEPLACE. COE, and all that. A catalyst can reduce the *barrier* to a reaction taking place but can't change the net energy balance of (reactants-in) -- (reaction-products-out). (Or at least, the kind of catalysts they teach about in schools can't do that.)
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:over population not
This is very good, because it is clear effort to ease the tax burden of middle class families. An as we have vertical farming in our hands, we really have no problems with overpopulation, because humans consume only about 1.5 % of Earth's resources if horizontal Agriculture is removed from existence. With horizontal agriculture humans does consume about 130 % of resources and this is no good at all, and it goes without saying that vertical agriculture is necessity with or without population growth or cold fusion technology. ―Jouni The evolution of real median income of families during the last 60 years in USA (.png) http://db.tt/CGjj9gmL On 16 Jan 2012, at 14:49, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/15/rick-santorum-on-fox-news_n_1207478.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. AND you believe them, because science works. Because we separate the person from the idea. My point exactly. While we are denigrating great scientists, Galileo was a jerk and a political animal according to Arthur Koestler. And those Cardinals *did*look through the telescope, says Koestler. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. But not for long enough. So what? IT WORKED. What part of IT WORKED don't you understand? And now your saying DFG will eat the lunch Rossi prepared and you think they are OK in do this and you are OK to publish statements that you can't back up? Apparently both you and DFG are damaged goods that can't be trusted. Thanks for making that very clear to me. You just saved me a trip to Greece. Go Rossi GO. AG On 17/01/2012 3:03 AM, Jones Beene wrote: DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there. Misses the point. If Edison repeatedly lied about his inventions and/or was jailed because of they didn't work as he said they did, and he described a new invention, you wouldn't trust him. Or if you did, you'd be a fool. It doesn't matter that he might be vindicated about the issue later. You'd get proper independent testing and replication which is exactly what has been asked again and again for more than a year of Rossi and Defkalion. There is no cost or risk involved any more and neither will do it. Their pretexts are flimsy and defy credibility. That's the problem.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On 12-01-16 05:11 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. I've read Poincare's papers Einstein supposedly plagiarized. In a word ... he didn't. Poincare had a lot of the pieces but it was Einstein who put them together. (And if that's plagiarism, then every mathematician who ever wrote a paper is guilty of it, with the possible exception of some Greek whose name we've all forgotten.) Can't comment on the rest of these, save to note that there are an awful lot of little men who want to tear down big men running around writing stuff. You can't always believe what you read when someone claims so-and-so really wasn't so great after all. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
His name was Thales of Miletus. g Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:25:53 -0500 From: sa...@pobox.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement On 12-01-16 05:11 PM, Zell, Chris wrote: Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. I've read Poincare's papers Einstein supposedly plagiarized. In a word ... he didn't. Poincare had a lot of the pieces but it was Einstein who put them together. (And if that's plagiarism, then every mathematician who ever wrote a paper is guilty of it, with the possible exception of some Greek whose name we've all forgotten.) Can't comment on the rest of these, save to note that there are an awful lot of little men who want to tear down big men running around writing stuff. You can't always believe what you read when someone claims so-and-so really wasn't so great after all. Werner Von Braun was a Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball. I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their achievements. If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Mary, My statement was directed to Beene and not you. It was based on that of Beene, who claimed Rossi's reactor WORKED during the DFG tests but not for the required 48 hours. My statement to you is: So was Beene lying about the IT WORKED statement? If so then he may also be lying about the IT WAS RETURNED statement? As Jed has, as I have, as others here have, information that I/we trust that the E-Cat does work as claimed. As you know I have disclosed a commercial interest in bringing FPE devices to market, so please don't expect me to disclose confidential information on this forum. Mary, who ever you really are, you are wrong about Rossi and his E-Cat. Soon you and all the other deniers will know you are wrong. AG On 17/01/2012 8:56 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Edison cheated Tesla on a flimsy pretext ('just joking') and 'repeatedly lied'
about DC vs AC. Tesla was vindicated, not Edison. Edison didn't even invent
the electric lightbulb ( OK, he made it last longer).
Testing without cost or risk? Not in any way that I would risk, if I was him.
What defies credibility to me are academics who believe corporations and
governments won't neutralize people who get in the way. The sign guarding Area
51 says, 'use of deadly force authorized'. President Obama orders the killing
of US citizens without trial.
As with an iceberg, if this is what you can see openly, how much is below the
surface that is hidden from your sight? Did Karen Silkwood just have an
'unfortunate accident'? Did JFK ride thru Dallas in an open vehicle after the
Secret Service knew about multiple plots on his life? How about the silver
trade whistleblower who was rammed by a car, not so long ago? How many
Americans know about a plot to overthrow FDR in the '30's and replace him with
a military junta - that Congress took seriously? Can major politicians be
bought off - to help corporations - by faking commodity transactions? (Hilliary)
Maybe Rossi goes nowhere. but don't be naive about risk
From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:24 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Zell, Chris
chrisz...@wetmtv.commailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:
Edison was a greedy liar and cheat who was cruel to animals. Schrodinger was a
bigamist. MLK and possibly Einstein were plagiarists. Werner Von Braun was a
Nazi and may have held rank in the SS. Tesla was a OCD-laden nutball.
I'm not sure I'd buy a used car from any of them. OTOH, I still respect their
achievements.
If Rashomon Rossi gets it all together, I have my Home Depot credit card
ready. Then, I can stop buying 40lb bags for my pellet stove there.
Misses the point. If Edison repeatedly lied about his inventions and/or was
jailed because of they didn't work as he said they did, and he described a new
invention, you wouldn't trust him. Or if you did, you'd be a fool. It doesn't
matter that he might be vindicated about the issue later.
You'd get proper independent testing and replication which is exactly what has
been asked again and again for more than a year of Rossi and Defkalion. There
is no cost or risk involved any more and neither will do it. Their pretexts
are flimsy and defy credibility. That's the problem.
[Vo]:Stevek not interested in my work only Widom Larson
He has missed the boat. Frank Z
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote: ** Testing without cost or risk? Not in any way that I would risk, if I was him. What is the risk beyond any risk Rossi already assumed when he did some 8 or 10 public demonstrations already? And he still gives regular interviews and meets with lawmakers and scientists, most recently in Massachusetts. What defies credibility to me are academics who believe corporations and governments won't neutralize people who get in the way. The sign guarding Area 51 says, 'use of deadly force authorized'. Area 51 is where secret and stealth weapon systems are developed for the Armed Forces. They don't make house heating units there. Where they do, they rarely use deadly force if you sneak into the factory! President Obama orders the killing of US citizens without trial. Perhaps but irrelevant even if true. As with an iceberg, *if this is what you can see openly, how much is below the surface that is hidden from your sight? *Did Karen Silkwood just have an 'unfortunate accident'? Did JFK ride thru Dallas in an open vehicle after the Secret Service knew about multiple plots on his life? How about the silver trade whistleblower who was rammed by a car, not so long ago? How many Americans know about a plot to overthrow FDR in the '30's and replace him with a military junta - that Congress took seriously? Can major politicians be bought off - to help corporations - by faking commodity transactions? (Hilliary) I don't know the answer to any of those conspiracies but they have nothing to do with Rossi. If every inventor who had a radical new technology that would upset someone's apple cart were to be assassinated, the grave yards would overflow with them and we'd have no Salk Institutes, Microsofts, IBM's, Oracles, Googles, Groupons, Facebooks, solar and windmill power, new medical discoveries and so on. Rossi is running no unusual risk by allowing his invention to be properly tested. In any case, he has said clearly on his blog that the invention is protected by his giving many anonymous friends secret access to the formula should anything happen to him. There is no valid reason to give equivocal and badly designed demonstrations instead of proper tests. It's been argued that this was to mislead. I find that proposal absurd because if Rossi didn't want people to believe him, he would not have given public demos at all.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Yes AG I am completely OK with DGT's strategy because essentially Thermacore invented the device, Mills explained some of it, Rossi improved it but failed to get a usable patent for what he added. Rossi wrote the contract and could have claimed the benefits but only if he could deliver what the contract specified - but he could not. Why should anyone feel sorry for him? He failed to deliver on a contract he wrote. DGT is completely within their rights to pursue this independently. -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Mary, My statement was directed to Beene and not you. It was based on that of Beene, who claimed Rossi's reactor WORKED during the DFG tests but not for the required 48 hours. My statement to you is: So was Beene lying about the IT WORKED statement? If so then he may also be lying about the IT WAS RETURNED statement? As Jed has, as I have, as others here have, information that I/we trust that the E-Cat does work as claimed. As you know I have disclosed a commercial interest in bringing FPE devices to market, so please don't expect me to disclose confidential information on this forum. Mary, who ever you really are, you are wrong about Rossi and his E-Cat. Soon you and all the other deniers will know you are wrong. AG On 17/01/2012 8:56 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: And as I read it, it would imply that the energetic equivalent of 10 kW (or whatever an e-cat produces) would have to be thermalized in the lead shielding from gamma rays. So if the shield is 3 cm, the equivalent of about 10 kW x .01 or about 100 W would escape in form of 511 keV gamma. Easily enough to kill Rossi over the countless hours he stood right next to his machines on youtube alone (unless his famous brown coat is stuffed with something very different than goose feathers). The thermalized radiation therory doesn't hold if the 3 cm of lead is all there is. I was just looking at Krivits theory table (which is quite useful -- if he keeps his personal opinion at bay) By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
[Vo]:Mary Mary Quite Contrary
Mary I'm a little confused. Perhaps you can clarify ? I know that you have stated it many times but is your position still that Rossi's first customer is a fictional one made up by him to give him credibility ? If this is the case then this fictional customer seems to have had fictional problems and fictionally returned it to him for fictional modifications. Mind you, we have only Rossi's word for it that his fictional customer has problems - perhaps he's completely satisfied ? The non-existent customer is completely satisfied but Rossi is making problems up to strengthen his technology's credibility. Yes - it all makes sense now. Of course if I were to take your approach I'm not sure Rossi exists. For me to accept that then I have to accept the word of other people who say he does - if these other people really exist. As for the videos - that could be anyone. It comes down to epistemology and you highlight a problem with many peoples' stated and implied presuppositions: In a universe created out of chaos with no absolute truth's, rights or wrongs then you can't know anything for sure. Mike Butcher
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
A longer exposition at http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/media-3rd-party/Widom-LarsenChemForumsLetter.shtml Question 3 and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Request volunteer assistance revamping LENR-CANR.org website
Hallo, If you need help, I can do database stuff with php and MySql. However, I am lousy webdesigner, so I will not build you modern looking tempelate from scratch. However, there are ready made templates and I can modify one for the needs of your site. So if you can find a web a html+css template for your site, I can do the database programming. So that it is easy for you to maintain. —Jouni On Jan 13, 2012 5:18 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Ed Storms, Akira Shirakawa and others have suggested I update the look and feel of the LENR-CANR.org website. In particular, the library indexes are badly out of data and useless. I was thinking of doing this a few years ago but a large organization said they might take over the maintenance of the site, so I put it off. I have not heard from them lately so I guess that's on hold. Anyway, I've been thinking about doing this. The actual work is trivial because the website is simple. I could do it in a week. It would save me time and prevent errors if someone who knows about modern rituals would assist. I could pay a consultant but it am a cheapskate and this is a volunteer effort anyway so I don't feel like paying. Please contact me by direct e-mail if you're interested in assisting. This is off topic here, but let me briefly what I have in mind. LOOK FEEL Converting the screens to a modern look should take a week. It could use some reorganization along the way. I welcome any suggestions. The thing about the look and feel is, I do not like the way modern websites look so I have not bothered to do it. I have no strong opinion about this, but changing it seems pointless. If someone who likes modern web design would be willing to lend a hand and get me started I would be happy to finish up. I do not want to burden it with pop-ups or lots of graphic images. Akira suggested I look at Wordpress instead of HTML editors. I see it has some advantages but it seems more suited to blog-style web pages than a library. I use Namo Webeditor 9. That is a creaky, unfriendly old program. LENR-CANR.org pages is so rudimentary I often just edit the HTML directly by hand. INDEXES In the present version of LENR-CANR.org the indexes are crude, static HTML code. The obvious way to do this is with SQL. When we started, the ISP did not even offer an online utility SQL. Later we moved to ISPs that offer this kind of thing but it cost a lot of money. So I never bothered to convert. Now that MySQL and PostgreSQL are free, I might as well use SQL instead of my home-grown indexes. I downloaded the manual. Relational databases have no changed much since the 1980s. This is simple database with only 3000 items so it is a piece of cake. I tested the PostgreSQL at our ISP, which is Jumpline.com. There is nothing to it. I can reformat the database into their import format and make the one-to-many links and whatnot. The problem is, Namo Webeditor 9 does not want to talk to Jumpline's SQL utilities. Maybe I just can't figure out the right parameters. Companies such as Jumpline and Namo offer no help for things like that. I have been poking around with Wavemaker.com and some other SQL utilities. I do not like the idea of using two different programs to maintain the website. Perhaps someone can recommend an integrated solution? One program that does it all and works with the latest version of PostgreSQL? I don't mind paying for a program. I am not that much of a cheapskate! I do not want any Microsoft web programs such as Frontpage. I am allergic to Microsoft. Frontpage was a nightmare to work with. It generated outrageously bloated HTML with lots of nonfunctional stuff. I mean stuff like HTML that does not display! You wonder how they managed to do that. HTML is an idiotic standard in many ways. It has lots of ad hoc stuff lying around. But it is simple and relatively foolproof. How do you manage to crank out HTML code that flies off the screen or makes the background the same as the foreground?!? It takes a kind of genius. I have to convert Word files to HTML sometimes, for the abstracts in the database. I ended up writing a Pascal program to clean out the garbage. I see that Frontpage has been replaced with Microsoft Expression. Probably just as bad. As I said, contact me directly if you would like to assist. For free. Bearing in mind that virtue is its own reward. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf
Re: [Vo]:LENR is not a disruptive technology...
Gold cannot be made from lead though fusion, it would require fission. There isn't much point making gold from platinum, I presume. To make Cu out of Ni though the Rossi claimed scheme it would release 3.4 GWh of heat per produced kg of Copper, that's an entirely new form of climate pollution! Unless you use that energy to make water out of gold of course :-) On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: AussieGuy wrote: “Transmutation of elements via the FPE may replace mining.” It’ll do more than that… it’ll kill the entire precious metals business which has been a foundation for countries’ *monetary systems*. What affect that will have on economic systems, and countries, is probably not going to be pretty… in the beginning. With energy being extremely cheap, it will drive down the cost of just about everything from raw materials to completed products… and it’ll be much cheaper to transport those things to the point of consumption, so we’re talking about much lower cost for most *everything*. It wouldn’t surprise me if govts stepped in to bring in the changes gradually… But how does one decide what to do when this is probably unlike anything that has ever happened; nothing to go on. *To call LENR a ‘disruptive’ technology doesn’t even begin to describe it!* -Mark
RE: [Vo]:Mary Mary Quite Contrary
The story of the customer having returned the 1 MW unit originated from a post here on Vortex claiming inside knowledge. Rossi has subsequently denied it was returned by the customer. Rossi does say that he is working with National Instruments and the customer in order to optimize it. Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:45:05 -0700 From: thebend...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Mary Mary Quite Contrary Mary I'm a little confused. Perhaps you can clarify ? I know that you have stated it many times but is your position still that Rossi's first customer is a fictional one made up by him to give him credibility ? If this is the case then this fictional customer seems to have had fictional problems and fictionally returned it to him for fictional modifications. Mind you, we have only Rossi's word for it that his fictional customer has problems - perhaps he's completely satisfied ? The non-existent customer is completely satisfied but Rossi is making problems up to strengthen his technology's credibility. Yes - it all makes sense now. Of course if I were to take your approach I'm not sure Rossi exists. For me to accept that then I have to accept the word of other people who say he does - if these other people really exist. As for the videos - that could be anyone. It comes down to epistemology and you highlight a problem with many peoples' stated and implied presuppositions: In a universe created out of chaos with no absolute truth's, rights or wrongs then you can't know anything for sure. Mike Butcher
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Craig - Did you catch Rossi's interview Friday? He said straight out: we are in mass production in Miami. I thought he said 'Florida', but it doesn't matter. When I heard this, my initial thought was that he is planning mass production for this year, not that he is already producing. I frequently come across people who do not speak native English, who use the current tense instead of a future tense. I think you are holding Rossi to a higher standard in language than you would hold the average person. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show -- WEB formatting
I'm away from my desk, and composing on a zimbra web interface. It looks fine in my mailer. When I look at the vortex web archive most of my line-feeds are stripped away. I think it isn't remembering my directive to format in text, not HTML.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Bob, An error you seem to be making, leading to your conclusion of way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi is an underlying assumption. You assume a symmetrical, chemical, or one-way reaction. What is not being factored into the equation, nor do we know, is the most important detail in any hypothesis involving suprachemical protons - which can been called for lack of a better term - the transaction rate for the asymmetry. If reaction is not a chemical reaction of valence electrons, but is a see-saw reaction where proton mass is converted into energy, repeatable in a short time frame and asymmetric, then the kind of energy reported by Rossi is easily possible with any recombination hypothesis. The ultimate energy source is like nuclear but not really to be a known nuclear reaction, and the reaction must happen sequentially - over and over many times per second. There is lots of excess mass in a proton, since the quarks are the only quantized mass. It might well happen that protons can donate surplus mass at a rate which is a function of surface interaction of phonons with protons, which can be at a very high rate - many THz and higher. Obviously, this rationale is not possible with chemical reactions which are largely symmetric - Lamb shift not included. If you want to plug in the numbers of having one gram of hydrogen in a reactor and providing 6 kWhr, you need only find a transaction rate (for the high gain regime) of 1000/sec. but even if the Lamb shift is the only asymmetry, a very low gain per iteration - you can still get there. That is essentially the teaching of the Moddel patent (it is a hypothesis on paper and not demonstrated, unless Rossi is the demonstration.) In short - with phonons moving in the terahertz range of blackbody radiation - then it is quite easy to imagine this as pumping some kind of sequential asymmetry. The problem as always is defining the ultimate energy source of the asymmetry. I think it is the strong force, not the weak force. A large transaction rate may itself be dependent on the extraordinary surface area of nanopowder. From: Bob Higgins The calculation in the link below appears to be in large error because the conversion from kWhr to MeV is wrong by 1E19 (1 kWH = 2.25E19 MeV). What I get is that the association energy of 1g of H to 1g of H2 would be 60 wH (0.06 kWhr), which would be way lower than the magnitude of energy reported by Rossi. Anyone else get a different answer? Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I know, Rossi he discovered this method of doing cold fusion. I would urge everyone to go back and take a look at an earlier thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60606.html Which shows that 1 g atomic hydrogen can release 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of . . . -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show - RE-SENT
A longer exposition at http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/media-3rd-party/Widom-LarsenChemForumsLetter.shtml Question 3 and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show -- RE-SENT
WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. W-L: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Joe Zawodny comments on the Nasa LENR video
I see Zawadny as taking a principled, high risk position, saying exactly what he thinks -- I'm impressed, and would be interested to know what evidence he finds most convincing. The frontier of physics-math-technology is a fractal surface in eternal exponential expansion -- no way to know what might combine and mutate to make a practical safe copious energy future for whatever humans are transforming into... Rich Murray, a pragmatic skeptic On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately his expert opinion will be used to futher delay investment in LENR research in favour of pouring more money into god particles and hot fusion. Perhaps you missed this part: ... I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation ... ? That is a weak-kneed endoresement, which does not accurately reflect the progress in the field. You would expect that sort of caution 20 years ago, but it is no longer justified. He is just pandering to the power and influence of skeptical zealots. harry
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
If this theory is really functional, how does it explain that after the experiment there isn't strong emission of gamma rays since all is generated by beta decay, a good share of which has a half life of days or weeks? It's in WL tables of decays. How does it explain the formation of Lithium and He4. The former is not possible in WL theory and the latter would take years, given that tritium has a half life of around 10 years. 2012/1/16 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:From NET: Bockris is still in the game!!
For those not following LENR for more than about the last year, the name Bockris might be new. He did a considerable amount of excellent LENR research in the 90s, and eventually faced several 'official' inquiries at the insistence of colleagues. none of which found any wrong-doing or bad science. He really hasn't been that active as far as I'm aware, at least not in academic circles. Perhaps Jed could fill us in on Bockris' activities for the last 5 years, as regards to LENR. What prompted this posting is the following blog from NET/SKrivit: Bockris Paper Advances Thanks to Widom-Larsen Theory Posted on January 13, 2012 by Steven B. Krivit John O'Mara Bockris, regarded as one of the world's pre-eminent electrochemists, recently advised me that he overcame objections by referees to a paper he submitted for publication by citing the Widom-Larsen Theory. Bockris sent me a letter on Jan. 2 and discussed his progress. I have been absolutely intrigued by [Lewis] Larsen and have changed my mind about his stuff, Bockris wrote. I used one of his equations in a paper which was held up by referees and was able to defeat them by Larsen's equation! Bockris has also been following my distinction between low-energy nuclear reactions and cold fusion. If I understand clearly what you say, you agree that some of the work that has been going on may involve nuclear reactions, Bockris wrote, but that it's not fusion. Is that what you said? If it is, then I agree with it. Most of the condensed matter nuclear reactions do not involve fusion.
Re: [Vo]:Request volunteer assistance revamping LENR-CANR.org website
I also recommend Drupal, Wordpress, or Joomla On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: Hallo, If you need help, I can do database stuff with php and MySql. However, I am lousy webdesigner, so I will not build you modern looking tempelate from scratch. However, there are ready made templates and I can modify one for the needs of your site. So if you can find a web a html+css template for your site, I can do the database programming. So that it is easy for you to maintain. —Jouni On Jan 13, 2012 5:18 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Ed Storms, Akira Shirakawa and others have suggested I update the look and feel of the LENR-CANR.org website. In particular, the library indexes are badly out of data and useless. I was thinking of doing this a few years ago but a large organization said they might take over the maintenance of the site, so I put it off. I have not heard from them lately so I guess that's on hold. Anyway, I've been thinking about doing this. The actual work is trivial because the website is simple. I could do it in a week. It would save me time and prevent errors if someone who knows about modern rituals would assist. I could pay a consultant but it am a cheapskate and this is a volunteer effort anyway so I don't feel like paying. Please contact me by direct e-mail if you're interested in assisting. This is off topic here, but let me briefly what I have in mind. LOOK FEEL Converting the screens to a modern look should take a week. It could use some reorganization along the way. I welcome any suggestions. The thing about the look and feel is, I do not like the way modern websites look so I have not bothered to do it. I have no strong opinion about this, but changing it seems pointless. If someone who likes modern web design would be willing to lend a hand and get me started I would be happy to finish up. I do not want to burden it with pop-ups or lots of graphic images. Akira suggested I look at Wordpress instead of HTML editors. I see it has some advantages but it seems more suited to blog-style web pages than a library. I use Namo Webeditor 9. That is a creaky, unfriendly old program. LENR-CANR.org pages is so rudimentary I often just edit the HTML directly by hand. INDEXES In the present version of LENR-CANR.org the indexes are crude, static HTML code. The obvious way to do this is with SQL. When we started, the ISP did not even offer an online utility SQL. Later we moved to ISPs that offer this kind of thing but it cost a lot of money. So I never bothered to convert. Now that MySQL and PostgreSQL are free, I might as well use SQL instead of my home-grown indexes. I downloaded the manual. Relational databases have no changed much since the 1980s. This is simple database with only 3000 items so it is a piece of cake. I tested the PostgreSQL at our ISP, which is Jumpline.com. There is nothing to it. I can reformat the database into their import format and make the one-to-many links and whatnot. The problem is, Namo Webeditor 9 does not want to talk to Jumpline's SQL utilities. Maybe I just can't figure out the right parameters. Companies such as Jumpline and Namo offer no help for things like that. I have been poking around with Wavemaker.com and some other SQL utilities. I do not like the idea of using two different programs to maintain the website. Perhaps someone can recommend an integrated solution? One program that does it all and works with the latest version of PostgreSQL? I don't mind paying for a program. I am not that much of a cheapskate! I do not want any Microsoft web programs such as Frontpage. I am allergic to Microsoft. Frontpage was a nightmare to work with. It generated outrageously bloated HTML with lots of nonfunctional stuff. I mean stuff like HTML that does not display! You wonder how they managed to do that. HTML is an idiotic standard in many ways. It has lots of ad hoc stuff lying around. But it is simple and relatively foolproof. How do you manage to crank out HTML code that flies off the screen or makes the background the same as the foreground?!? It takes a kind of genius. I have to convert Word files to HTML sometimes, for the abstracts in the database. I ended up writing a Pascal program to clean out the garbage. I see that Frontpage has been replaced with Microsoft Expression. Probably just as bad. As I said, contact me directly if you would like to assist. For free. Bearing in mind that virtue is its own reward. - Jed -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:Mary Mary Quite Contrary
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Michael Butcher thebend...@gmail.comwrote: Mary I'm a little confused. Perhaps you can clarify ? I know that you have stated it many times but is your position still that Rossi's first customer is a fictional one made up by him to give him credibility ? If this is the case then this fictional customer seems to have had fictional problems and fictionally returned it to him for fictional modifications. Mind you, we have only Rossi's word for it that his fictional customer has problems - perhaps he's completely satisfied ? The non-existent customer is completely satisfied but Rossi is making problems up to strengthen his technology's credibility. Yes - it all makes sense now. I don't understand even if your assumptions are true. If Rossi lied about the existence of a customer, why could he not elaborate on the lie later on? The technology (if it can be called that) has absolutely no credibility inside the rational part of the scientific and journalistic community anyway. Rossi could hardly make it worse unless he admitted it's phony. He could make it *better* as we have pointed out many times but he says all the time, he's not interested in doing that. What I'm curious about is how long the believers will believe if there is no conclusive evidence from Rossi and Defkalion in six months or a year or two years? As the Jay Leno Show often asks in one of their video comedy segments, How long will it take?
[Vo]:Heat Output
All, In reading the CELANI presentation what is striking to me and probably hardest for everyone, including me to accept even more then the technology is that between 1995 and 2011 all of those PHDs from all of those prestigious universities with all that research grant money were only able to generate tens of watts of power from their reactions and here comes Rossi with a mail order degree from a now defunct Kensington University and achieves tens of thousands of watts of power... Another thing I am struggling with is that on one hand Zawodny says he is skeptical of LENR in his blog and yet he posts in his youtube video and the aviation weekly blog that NASA will launch rockets with the technology. 50 Watts will hardly launch a paper airplane. With an 8 million times chemical potential I think we should all agree and rename the technology Low Efficiency Nuclear Reaction... Just having fun, don't flame me...
Re: [Vo]:Heat Output
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: With an 8 million times chemical potential I think we should all agree and rename the technology Low Efficiency Nuclear Reaction... Just having fun, don't flame me... Or possibly IENR for a reaction which requires no input but provides output. (Ignore that liquid flowing under your feet.) T striking match, little input energy but large heat energy :-)
