[WISPA] ConnectEd
Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.commailto:ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
Erate how to on Wispapalooza? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.commailto:ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
I think a higher USF fee on your phone bill. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:50:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
We had a session at WISPAmerica. Should have them more regularly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:52:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd Erate how to on Wispapalooza? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
Recorded? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd We had a session at WISPAmerica. Should have them more regularly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:52:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd Erate how to on Wispapalooza? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.commailto:ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
I don't know. I know sessions were recorded at Vegas last year, but as a presenter, I never heard anything back on them. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:05:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd Recorded? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd We had a session at WISPAmerica. Should have them more regularly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:52:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd Erate how to on Wispapalooza? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Kevin Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
Right now the rule of thumb for adequate bandwidth to a school is 100k per student. Documenting what schools currently have is a hot topic for the national broadband map. We are diving deep on this topic in Illinois and it’s like herding cats. We did hear back from the Chicago City Schools and while we are trying to get a more definitive data set from them, they did state that the high school buildings typically have 50 meg and the elementary buildings 20 meg. There are many more elementary school buildings than high school buildings in Chicago so the student population at each location is different and this the different bandwidth. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com _ From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd
Unfortunately, pricing is all over the board, and there are schools that are buying 100 meg circuits. In CA Comcast territory, they offer 100 meg by 10 ( or 20 ) for about $399 per month. Now, we all know that Comcast cherry picks where they provide service, so there are those that are a block away from Comcast facilities that have been quoted $10,000 or more to get connected. In Oakland CA, there is a wireless provider that is doing 25 meg / 25 meg at $375 per month. In San Francisco Monkey brains is doing something similar. John Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.com wrote: It will be an interesting discussion for sure. We currently have service built to many schools, most with the capacity to provide 100 + megs. Most schools are purchasing somewhere in the 5 – 20meg range as that is what they can afford, including their current subsidy from E-Rate. We are providing service to rural schools and they just can’t afford more. Not sure how the FCC feels these schools will be able to afford 100+ meg connections and beyond that, where does the money come from to continue to fund E-Rate with what are sure to be large increased demands on the funding to support these larger pipes. Kevin From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ConnectEd I think so. I asked the same question a few weeks ago and the response was something to the effect of, Is this something WISPA members want to respond to? The response seemed to be a resounding yes. Now I just hope that it's something that we can get a piece of vs. telling them to not do it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Kevin Owen ko...@fsr.commailto:ko...@fsr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:42:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ConnectEd Do we know if WISPA as an organization is currently reviewing or plans to review/make comments to the NPRM for the revisions to the E-Rate program. Is WISPA following the discussions concerning the Federal ConnectED program that wants to see a minimum connection standard to all schools and libraries of 100 megs with a 5 year goal of having access to 1 gig of available bandwidth for all schools and libraries? thanks, Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Matt, I commend your thoughts, and how you chose to write them. I always admire people who speak clearly, but from the heart. I would like to add something, or perhaps just explain why I think this industry will never become the domain of a few large players. Our industry requires a dedication to individual service. Many in the beginning wanted a box to plant on the desk, so that NO interaction with the customer was needed. Instead, we serve each customer individually. Our deployments require that we learn and plot our coverage and service in place, on the ground, interacting with local people. There is no large company that can do that.We CARE about our own business, because it IS our own business, and thus, we CARE about our customers, something you cannot ever pay someone to do. The employee who can be paid to care, is indeed...rare. Thus, we have entered an industry with a model based upon the highest ideal of business - that of true service. The flakes will fail, the greedy will fail, only those with a true concern for doing what needs to be done, in return for a modest paycheck will be successful. Some can instill or find that kind of employee to hire, but no HR department will accomplish it. I don't call us heroes... Certainly I am not anyone's hero. I'm a villain, when the power fails at 8 pm on a school night, and everyone's connection dies. But I do my best, and I really, DO care that someone needs and I have the means of meeting it, and so I get up and go out, missing my dinner, to get things back up and going. Any of you on this list who won't do that, you're the exception, not the rule. I can with confidence that you have a passion to do things for other people... And found a way to earn that paycheck... and meet the need. I believe very few of you are in this, solely for the money. And I disagree about our image... It should be a nameless, faceless guy, working out of his truck, doing the job for his neighbor, on a handshake. That's who we are, more than anything else. It's who we should sell ourselves as, and in doing so, gain our customer's loyalty, as we're loyal to them. Our business operations, and our treatment of customers should reflect that, as well. I don't have the answer for the problems in DC. I don't have the answer for how to get Congress and agencies to allow us to do what we know how to do, and have the answers for. I just think we should be on the offensive, not the defensive, and seek to change the nature of the game. BTW, I read your site from time to time, it's quite good. Keep it up. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:16 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules Scottie (and all other non-WISPA members on this list) I would like to repost something that I put on the WISPA Members list and on my blog at Wirelesscowboys.com - the WISP Manifesto. I am advocating that we should change our strategies to put together our own numbers, fight government programs that harm our businesses with taxpayer money and show the world that we are heroes to our communities. I would really enjoy commentary from anyone on the list. ML (This email started out as a response to Brian Webster's email and went WAY off on a tangent, so I'm changing the subject - sorry!) Brian, I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points here. I think that you are mostly right, but you are accepting the framing of the issues as the telcos and politicians want them to be framed. That there is no way that we can win a toe-to-toe slugging match for spectrum, but this is not about a full on, frontal attack.This is guerilla warfare, and the game is played by a completely different set of rules. Think of it from the wisp operator's point of view.. 1) We've been given essentially no spectrum (the junk bands that we use were around long before WISPs were), 2)We get no government subsidies, despite the existence of stimulus and rural development programs for broadband deployment, which actually.. 3)Pours billions of taxpayer dollars into our competition, the same competition that has either delivered low grade broadband or none at all. 4)The USF program allows telcos to impose additional taxes on their services to go into a giant government enabled slush fund that goes right back into their systems. 5)RUS only lends to ILECs and will not work with multiple entities in an area 6)We are asked to turn over highly detailed information about our subscriber bases, tower sites and anchor tenants as part of the broadband mapping programs - information that is a FOIA request away from being public knowledge! In many (most) ways, we have little
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Interesting video... Almost as good as the ones of Tower 5 and Tower 6.. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules When WISPA decides to bow down to the wishes of Connected Nation, a well-known and well documented anti WISP organization and smack me down with parroted words that were told me also by the LATEST Connected Nation CEO boy We're done. Please remove me from the WISPA list and be happy. The world is cruel, this be true. But Connected Nation Et tu, Brute? Yes. You. I will not be controlled. I will not bow to the master Telco/Cable BS. I will, however, provide broadband internet to whoever and wherever I damn well please. Big Shot CEO of Connected Nation tonight on the cell phone as I was replacing a power supply 90 feet up in the blinding snow... Our people feel threatened by your video. So sad for them. They are threatened I bet they are. I really bet they are. Waiting for the FCC to show up.. HA! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Cell 937-903-1286 Description: cid:image001.png@01CBB357.F6FCF250 Affordable Internet For Everyone! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: -- Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
WISPA talks to the FCC. How do you think they respond to us when we ask for something knowing we allow such actions? On Jan 14, 2011 11:50 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Josh, you're comparing apples to oranges. AFAIK, CN is not a competitor nor a member. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Wow - it's amazing how different everyone's experiences with CN has been. We've had just the opposite of most of the folks posting here. We've had great support for our wireless efforts . . . everything from design and engineering to going out and finding us money to do special projects with. If we can understand that at the root, they HAVE TO BE technology independent, they do have some very good wireless folks, Chip Spann and Bart Winegar among them. As for the meeting that Robert was refering to, here in Ohio they (Connect Ohio) have a grant that, to my way of thinking, helps me or any other provider. They are offering training for folks who are not versed in the Internet to drive adoption. Then, then in exchange for providers offering some discount to the folks who participate in the class, they will advertise your services, and encourage folks to subscribe. That's what was presented to Robert. I don't see why he was so offended by that proposition. Again, it's all in your perception. All I can say is that we have found that they can be very helpful and are very willing to help. Do we take every suggestion or service they offer? No way. But just because we can't use something they offer does not make them bad. I can say without hesitation, that I've not found them to be in the hip pocket of the telcos or big boys at all. They've been very supportive of our efforts here. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: -- Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Were you paid to say that or do you honestly feel that? That would definitely be a first praise to my ears. On Jan 15, 2011 9:26 AM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Wow - it's amazing how different everyone's experiences with CN has been. We've had just the opposite of most of the folks posting here. We've had great support for our wireless efforts . . . everything from design and engineering to going out and finding us money to do special projects with. If we can understand that at the root, they HAVE TO BE technology independent, they do have some very good wireless folks, Chip Spann and Bart Winegar among them. As for the meeting that Robert was refering to, here in Ohio they (Connect Ohio) have a grant that, to my way of thinking, helps me or any other provider. They are offering training for folks who are not versed in the Internet to drive adoption. Then, then in exchange for providers offering some discount to the folks who participate in the class, they will advertise your services, and encourage folks to subscribe. That's what was presented to Robert. I don't see why he was so offended by that proposition. Again, it's all in your perception. All I can say is that we have found that they can be very helpful and are very willing to help. Do we take every suggestion or service they offer? No way. But just because we can't use something they offer does not make them bad. I can say without hesitation, that I've not found them to be in the hip pocket of the telcos or big boys at all. They've been very supportive of our efforts here. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: -- Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Ive said good things about CO staff in the past. Check the archives. One of the CO staff work for Intelliwave previously. I know for a fact that he understands WISPS, wants us to succeed and really cares about getting broadband to rural subscribers. Chris Cooper Intelliwave LLC -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules Were you paid to say that or do you honestly feel that? That would definitely be a first praise to my ears. On Jan 15, 2011 9:26 AM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Wow - it's amazing how different everyone's experiences with CN has been. We've had just the opposite of most of the folks posting here. We've had great support for our wireless efforts . . . everything from design and engineering to going out and finding us money to do special projects with. If we can understand that at the root, they HAVE TO BE technology independent, they do have some very good wireless folks, Chip Spann and Bart Winegar among them. As for the meeting that Robert was refering to, here in Ohio they (Connect Ohio) have a grant that, to my way of thinking, helps me or any other provider. They are offering training for folks who are not versed in the Internet to drive adoption. Then, then in exchange for providers offering some discount to the folks who participate in the class, they will advertise your services, and encourage folks to subscribe. That's what was presented to Robert. I don't see why he was so offended by that proposition. Again, it's all in your perception. All I can say is that we have found that they can be very helpful and are very willing to help. Do we take every suggestion or service they offer? No way. But just because we can't use something they offer does not make them bad. I can say without hesitation, that I've not found them to be in the hip pocket of the telcos or big boys at all. They've been very supportive of our efforts here. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: -- Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
I most certainly don't read every post. Sorry I missed that important one. On Jan 15, 2011 9:50 AM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: Ive said good things about CO staff in the past. Check the archives. One of the CO staff work for Intelliwave previously. I know for a fact that he understands WISPS, wants us to succeed and really cares about getting broadband to rural subscribers. Chris Cooper Intelliwave LLC -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules Were you paid to say that or do you honestly feel that? That would definitely be a first praise to my ears. On Jan 15, 2011 9:26 AM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Wow - it's amazing how different everyone's experiences with CN has been. We've had just the opposite of most of the folks posting here. We've had great support for our wireless efforts . . . everything from design and engineering to going out and finding us money to do special projects with. If we can understand that at the root, they HAVE TO BE technology independent, they do have some very good wireless folks, Chip Spann and Bart Winegar among them. As for the meeting that Robert was refering to, here in Ohio they (Connect Ohio) have a grant that, to my way of thinking, helps me or any other provider. They are offering training for folks who are not versed in the Internet to drive adoption. Then, then in exchange for providers offering some discount to the folks who participate in the class, they will advertise your services, and encourage folks to subscribe. That's what was presented to Robert. I don't see why he was so offended by that proposition. Again, it's all in your perception. All I can say is that we have found that they can be very helpful and are very willing to help. Do we take every suggestion or service they offer? No way. But just because we can't use something they offer does not make them bad. I can say without hesitation, that I've not found them to be in the hip pocket of the telcos or big boys at all. They've been very supportive of our efforts here. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: -- Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Remember, it was on the general list... On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: WISPA talks to the FCC. How do you think they respond to us when we ask for something knowing we allow such actions? On Jan 14, 2011 11:50 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Josh, you're comparing apples to oranges. AFAIK, CN is not a competitor nor a member. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
I didn't say that, but it is well known. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
At 1/15/2011 05:02 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: I didn't say that, but it is well known. I said it, and I stand by it, noting what Chuck said as an example. Even before the federally-funded mapping projects, CK was operating -- it was the prototype for CN -- and it was referring people to BellSouth. I think at the time it was a $20k fee to be listed. $20k for BellSouth, $20k for a tiny local ISP. Sort of a poll tax model. Great for the big guys. But it's not the big guys who need someone to tell the public who provides service where they are. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum mailto:oujas...@gmail.comoujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.comfgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.comj...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Sorry Chuck - did not mean to attribute to the wrong person. Fred did say it. But none the less, here in Ohio, We've never been asked for a penny from Connect Ohio other than when we hired Chip Spann via Connected Nation to do some network design for us early on. And perhaps CK opperates different from CO. I know they've been around a LOT longer. I guess it's kinda Fords. You either love 'em or hate em, depending on your experiences with them. My main point is that not everyone has had such a negative experience with CN, and in some cases, very good success working with them. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 1/15/2011 05:02 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: I didn't say that, but it is well known. I said it, and I stand by it, noting what Chuck said as an example. Even before the federally-funded mapping projects, CK was operating -- it was the prototype for CN -- and it was referring people to BellSouth. I think at the time it was a $20k fee to be listed. $20k for BellSouth, $20k for a tiny local ISP. Sort of a poll tax model. Great for the big guys. But it's not the big guys who need someone to tell the public who provides service where they are. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Ditto here! On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I didn't say that, but it is well known. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
All this bickering reminds me why I have NOT joined WISPA yet. Do not get me wrong, I DO agree with the bickering going on from KY and OH about Connect whatever state inserted here! Same as what is happening in TN! In my own opinion, WISPA is trying to play Big boy, with a front for big boy! I have been on the general list for a long time following the steps that WISPA has taken. IN the last few years, my perception is they want to BOW DOWN to the FCC on issues that the Big Boys decide on most issues. They are playing second fiddle to what most of us actually want. We want someone to standup at the FCC and say, HEY, there are other ISP's besides cable and telephone co's! We are serving as much or more of the digitally divided ppl than the telco's are cable co's ever thought about! Of course we can all pay our $250 or whatever to WISPA and it will all go to Steve Coran! He loves us all for fighting this. The bigger fight, the more he gets paid, whether we win or not. How about funding the Steve that used to be a WISP and later became a lawyer. He knows what we are and what we stand for? Side step from my bitching about WISPA, I am tired of competing against money that you, I, and everyone else in the USA has paid in on taxes. Just take a look at my area and what I have to compete against, I could give WISPA $100,000 and probably still not survive! Twin Lakes Telephone Cooperative... got a total of $36 million in BIP/BTOP funding for FTTH, North Central Telephone Cooperative...gota total of $50 million for FTTH in many areas that we were already covering and they were covering with FTTH. Windstream in KY got a total of $26 million to expand their coverage to everyone else outside of the city limits, What it comes down too, is how much a$$ you can kiss, and how much you can afford to pay! I may join Wispa tomorrow just in case they can take my $250 and do something useful in my favor for once? It is typical politics, the ones that can pay the most, get their way. Why do you think the go has auctioned off the good freq that most of us COULD have competed against the BIG guys, but could not afford? Yea, classify me the same a bedfast, I am at that point, prove me different, and I will join him in a counter! Scott - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules I didn't say that, but it is well known. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
I did my coverage with Connected TN about a year ago and have not heard from them since except for a revise. Scott - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules I didn't say that, but it is well known. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 1/15/2011 08:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: You know at the time I saw the email, I was surprised. However, nobody on this list knows about the joke of a deal CN is like Rick and I do. After the millions of dollars in tax revenue and all this mapping, that public information was removed from their website. Millions of tax paying dollars down the drain. Because of the potential WISPA problems, I won't tell you how I really feel. I'm not a member (yet) so take that as a disclaimer. This is the public forum, not official correspondence. It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. Bob's satire was harmless, reflective of their value to independent ISPs, wireless and otherwise. If CN is whinging, let them, because it hit home. Bob's contributions have at times been a high point of this list. Not everything has to be somber. On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
You should read a bit more. Their presentation Thursday (maybe Wednesday?) would have been a real eye opener for you. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.comwrote: All this bickering reminds me why I have NOT joined WISPA yet. Do not get me wrong, I DO agree with the bickering going on from KY and OH about Connect whatever state inserted here! Same as what is happening in TN! In my own opinion, WISPA is trying to play Big boy, with a front for big boy! I have been on the general list for a long time following the steps that WISPA has taken. IN the last few years, my perception is they want to BOW DOWN to the FCC on issues that the Big Boys decide on most issues. They are playing second fiddle to what most of us actually want. We want someone to standup at the FCC and say, HEY, there are other ISP's besides cable and telephone co's! We are serving as much or more of the digitally divided ppl than the telco's are cable co's ever thought about! Of course we can all pay our $250 or whatever to WISPA and it will all go to Steve Coran! He loves us all for fighting this. The bigger fight, the more he gets paid, whether we win or not. How about funding the Steve that used to be a WISP and later became a lawyer. He knows what we are and what we stand for? Side step from my bitching about WISPA, I am tired of competing against money that you, I, and everyone else in the USA has paid in on taxes. Just take a look at my area and what I have to compete against, I could give WISPA $100,000 and probably still not survive! Twin Lakes Telephone Cooperative... got a total of $36 million in BIP/BTOP funding for FTTH, North Central Telephone Cooperative...gota total of $50 million for FTTH in many areas that we were already covering and they were covering with FTTH. Windstream in KY got a total of $26 million to expand their coverage to everyone else outside of the city limits, What it comes down too, is how much a$$ you can kiss, and how much you can afford to pay! I may join Wispa tomorrow just in case they can take my $250 and do something useful in my favor for once? It is typical politics, the ones that can pay the most, get their way. Why do you think the go has auctioned off the good freq that most of us COULD have competed against the BIG guys, but could not afford? Yea, classify me the same a bedfast, I am at that point, prove me different, and I will join him in a counter! Scott - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:02 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules I didn't say that, but it is well known. Second, Connect Kentucky came to me and asked us to be a partner to Connect Kentucky. I said sure, send over the paperwork. It was a minimum $10k to be listed on the associates part. $50k to be a partner. Do they honestly think I can afford either? Guess who was partners? HughesNet, WildBlue, Bellsouth (ATT), Time Warner, Windstream, Insight... so when a customer in my area called them to see about access, even though I fully cooperated with CK, went to EVERY meeting, provided them with full mapping data and showed them how to use Radio Mobile, they referred them to HughesNet or WildBlue. They knew I had that area covered, it was very blatant, but because I didn't pay them the money, they referred them to an inferior product, satellite service. They were provided with MILLIONS!!! to do mapping for Kentucky. The maps they did were immediately removed and taken offline as soon as their funding ran out. It was done in spite of the Kentucky Government. The TAX PAYERS OWN THAT DATA, and they stole it from us all. Guess what happened another year later? Another company was hired to do THAT EXACT SAME MAPPING again, and yes, they got MILLIONS again. I tried MULTIPLE times to work with them, and MANY MANY MANY open ended promised were made by them. None of this is opinion, it's all FACT. Ask MANY MANY MANY people around the US that are under a Connect program. Most will show their displeasure. Regards, Chuck On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck said: It is well known that CN is a marketing and lobbying front for the Bells. I would agree with that it is a well known opinion by many on this list. However, from what we've seen, they lobby as much, if not more, for independent companies like most of us are. They lobby for Broadband in general - they don't play favorites at the high level. However, they have some very knowledgible, dedicated wireless guys. And if you work very much with them, you'd see that wireles is all those guys are about. Dave Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Fred
[WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
When WISPA decides to bow down to the wishes of Connected Nation, a well-known and well documented anti WISP organization and smack me down with parroted words that were told me also by the LATEST Connected Nation CEO boy We're done. Please remove me from the WISPA list and be happy. The world is cruel, this be true. But Connected Nation Et tu, Brute? Yes. You. I will not be controlled. I will not bow to the master Telco/Cable BS. I will, however, provide broadband internet to whoever and wherever I damn well please. Big Shot CEO of Connected Nation tonight on the cell phone as I was replacing a power supply 90 feet up in the blinding snow... Our people feel threatened by your video. So sad for them. They are threatened I bet they are. I really bet they are. Waiting for the FCC to show up.. HA! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Cell 937-903-1286 Description: cid:image001.png@01CBB357.F6FCF250 Affordable Internet For Everyone! image001.png WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Ok... What did I miss? On 1/14/2011 10:15 PM, Robert West wrote: When WISPA decides to bow down to the wishes of Connected Nation, a well-known and well documented anti WISP organization and smack me down with parroted words that were told me also by the LATEST Connected Nation CEO boy.. Were done. Please remove me from the WISPA list and be happy. The world is cruel, this be true. But Connected Nation Et tu, Brute? Yes. You. I will not be controlled. I will not bow to the master Telco/Cable BS. I will, however, provide broadband internet to whoever and wherever I damn well please. Big Shot CEO of Connected Nation tonight on the cell phone as I was replacing a power supply 90 feet up in the blinding snow. Our people feel threatened by your video. So sad for them. They are threatened. I bet they are. I really bet they are. Waiting for the FCC to show up. HA! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Cell 937-903-1286 Affordable Internet For Everyone! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3378 - Release Date: 01/13/11 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Is Bob a member? I could be wrong - but I thought this was just on the public list ... that being said - since Anyone can post - and Anyone can join the public list - Perhaps it might be good for WISPA to have a disclaimer @ the Bottom of all emails - stating This is a public forum provided to the Internet Community at large. The comments and or opinions expressed are not endorsed by WISPA and are the sole responsibility of the person making the posting. :-) Just my 2 cents. On Jan 15, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principal | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Josh, you're comparing apples to oranges. AFAIK, CN is not a competitor nor a member. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Rules
Very good point. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Is Bob a member? I could be wrong - but I thought this was just on the public list ... that being said - since Anyone can post - and Anyone can join the public list - Perhaps it might be good for WISPA to have a disclaimer @ the Bottom of all emails - stating This is a public forum provided to the Internet Community at large. The comments and or opinions expressed are not endorsed by WISPA and are the sole responsibility of the person making the posting. :-) Just my 2 cents. On Jan 15, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: WISPA is represented by its members. Would you appreciate your installer doing such acts against a competitor? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya know, I've never met Bob but everyone on this list knows that he is a comedian at heart and and his post was done in satire. It's too bad people cant lighten up and enjoy life without taking offense to such things. Or was it that his post so close to the truth it hurt? Why do we eat our own on behalf of the enemy? As far as making WISPA look bad, are we really judged by the actions of one person? If so, WISPA needs to review the membership list and do a better scrutinizing who is allowed to join. Just my .02. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: The problem was the lack of maturity and how bad the content makes WISPA look. We have our opinions. We are people. But we, as adults and businesses or representatives, need too display a level of advancement. On Jan 14, 2011 9:39 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principal | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
subscriber count, for the public to see. And we'll make them take us to court before we'll provide it. I'd like to give an example, of DB and Getting Leases. One thing we learned is that Giving DB info hurts you if you give them info that proves you dont meet the qualification of lenders. For example, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
dersirable leads, and that we make sales by precisely targeting our prospects, and the areas and clients that are most profitable for us to serve get targeted, since we have limited funding? I mentioned we had coverage to serve several million subscribers, but we only had funding to install 20 per month. They wanted subscriber level detail, I told them I might give them Block level detail. But the funny part was that the same group just applied for a BTOP grant in round2 to provide fiber to most of the state. So I told them I'd give them my mapping data as soon as they gave me theirs. I told them the round1 applciation, proposed to overbuild our entire coverage, and I'm sure the round2 one would also. I told them there was a huge conflict of interest with me providinh them my coverage data without them providing me theirs. I'd likely have to protest their governor led Round2 BTOP application, and to provide my coverage data prior to the announcement of success or failure of an award, would be a huge comflict of interest, considering I plan to protest the BTOP application. I asked them, If I disclosed my coverage, would they be willing to carve that coverage out of their application... They bypassed that question. They said the Governor's office will be provided a list of providers that complied and didn't. I asked, if they'd join my lobby effort to fight the Governor's office to stop charging property tax on broadband investment? They bypassed that question. Actually There were three big Round1 apps in Maryland. One was State led, and got turned down for many reasons, mostly because it was focusing on overbuilding served areas. ($100 million in Fiber). The second was Maryland Broadband Cooperative that legitimately was focussing on rural unserved parts of the state. Neither got an award for good reasons. In Round2, the Governor changed the plan, and actually incorporated the MVC as a subcomponent of teh State's grant, so that it would add credability to the application. Basically it was a political move that indirectly said we now have one unified application, and to get the rural parts served (MBC) you got to also look the otherway when we through in some served areas that that state wants. They are absolutely crazy if they think I 'll provide my data before the BTOP Round2 protests and awards are finished. However, after that time period, we are very likely to provide full Census Block coverage information to MBC. We want to be looked at as a ISP that shares a possisitive vision for growth of broadband in the state, but we will not give them everything they want in the form they want. We will withhold things, such as we will NOT give any subscriber data, location or count. We will simply disclose coverage. Our position is to convey the facts that we can cover vast territory with in palce infrastructure, and Funding is the primary limitation to expansion. But it will never help us to disclose the volume of our subscriber count, for the public to see. And we'll make them take us to court before we'll provide it. I'd like to give an example, of DB and Getting Leases. One thing we learned is that Giving DB info hurts you if you give them info that proves you dont meet the qualification of lenders. For example, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
From: "Scott Reed"scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: "WISPA General List"wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
to expansion. But it will never help us to disclose the volume of our subscriber count, for the public to see. And we'll make them take us to court before we'll provide it. I'd like to give an example, of DB and Getting Leases. One thing we learned is that Giving DB info hurts you if you give them info that proves you dont meet the qualification of lenders. For example, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information Thats the funny part. They have an NDA!. What good is the NDA, if you are agreeing to give them information that is intended and will be released to the public on a public web site? What else is there to keep confidential? Maybe only the agregate lists to make it quicker to import into a dta base. Its funny, I asked, what is going to be released to the public? They could not tell me that for sure as the system was still in development and design. So its not even possible to enter into an agreement clearly stating what we'd be agreeing to, because the agreement is not defined. Basically the way it is now is... They say... Provide us everything now, and we'll let you know. In my state there was no pre-planning process or open discussion on the requirements. What happened was that mapping providers got grants, and mapping providers started working. There was no stipulation in the grant program to require winner to accommodate ISP's interests or stakeholder's interests. There job was to create the most accurate and detailed map that they could. NEver a single discussion on how it would be best to display WISP type data. Its a Joke. I personally think we should all not cooperate simply to send the message that we will not get bullied into just compliance, without even being given the opportunity to be part of the planning process. They have no authority to just demand info from us. If they want to map the state, I'll be glad to go to a public work group and discuss it and come up with ideas. But this one sided, this is the way it going to work attitude is not going to fly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I believe the folks doing the mapping (at least a significant part of it) for Connected Nation are Chip Spann, Layne Wagner and John Determan. All three of these men have significant RF and WISP background. Not sure if they are actually engineers' but probablly 30-40 years combined wireless (licensed and unlicensed) between them. I'm not sure who is doing the mapping in your state, but I believe these three are overseeing the mapping for all of Connected Nations's contracts. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Well that is a little more comforting. They don't need to be Engineers because there is no formal degree for wireless engineers in the US. Electrical Engineers only get about two weeks antenna theory when it comes to wireless. If these three are really on staff, they are not doing a very good job of oversight for the staff running the maps. I have seen results in both Illinois and Michigan and can tell you their predictions are way off. Thank You, Brian Webster From: David Hannum [mailto:oujas...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:23 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I believe the folks doing the mapping (at least a significant part of it) for Connected Nation are Chip Spann, Layne Wagner and John Determan. All three of these men have significant RF and WISP background. Not sure if they are actually engineers' but probablly 30-40 years combined wireless (licensed and unlicensed) between them. I'm not sure who is doing the mapping in your state, but I believe these three are overseeing the mapping for all of Connected Nations's contracts. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I thought I'd add Why should we assume that the State's objectives will always be to get accurate coverage maps? Sure States with higher percentage of unserved areas would benefit from accurately showing userved areas. But what about the other more served states? Wouldn't they benefit by showing that their own states are more unserved than the realy are? Showing that a WISP covers an unserved area just means that that state might not qualify for Federal money to get fiber to those locations. Can we ever really rely on any mapping project to represent the WISP's interests, when the goal of the MApping is to develop a basis for possible future federal assistance to build fiber networks? Isn't most state's real mission to determine where there is and isn't fiber, to encourage the expansion of Fiber? What motive does the State appointed mappers have to cooperate and accommodate WISP's request for mapping? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When a WISP does not provide info, whether the Feds or States make a stink about it, may depend on the impact of the data that would be missing, and their real
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
NOFA for this grant can be found here: http://broadbandusa.gov/info_lib.htm This covers the data they are looking for. Chris Cooper Intelliwave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I agree. Can someone point to where the NTIA has published the requirements? Jack Unger wrote: It would be good to see some type of documentation that the data contractors and the PSC are telling the truth about the NTIA mandating that they collect such detailed data. Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When a WISP does not provide info, whether the Feds or States make a stink about it, may depend on the impact of the data that would be missing, and their real legal opinion which I'm sure they would not truly disclose outside of court. In MD, we were just contacted, and the mapping initiative is really a racket for free money. MD had already started a very substanial mapping effort at the State Level. But that is considered different. So with teh BTOP mapping grant they got, they cant or choose not to use the pre-existing MApping platform, and basically are starting a seperate project to comply to the federal initatives. Basically
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
They can pry the info from my cold, dead, brain! On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information Thats the funny part. They have an NDA!. What good is the NDA, if you are agreeing to give them information that is intended and will be released to the public on a public web site? What else is there to keep confidential? Maybe only the agregate lists to make it quicker to import into a dta base. Its funny, I asked, what is going to be released to the public? They could not tell me that for sure as the system was still in development and design. So its not even possible to enter into an agreement clearly stating what we'd be agreeing to, because the agreement is not defined. Basically the way it is now is... They say... Provide us everything now, and we'll let you know. In my state there was no pre-planning process or open discussion on the requirements. What happened was that mapping providers got grants, and mapping providers started working. There was no stipulation in the grant program to require winner to accommodate ISP's interests or stakeholder's interests. There job was to create the most accurate and detailed map that they could. NEver a single discussion on how it would be best to display WISP type data. Its a Joke. I personally think we should all not cooperate simply to send the message that we will not get bullied into just compliance, without even being given the opportunity to be part of the planning process. They have no authority to just demand info from us. If they want to map the state, I'll be glad to go to a public work group and discuss it and come up with ideas. But this one sided, this is the way it going to work attitude is not going to fly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information. The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Tom, As always you ask great questions. I'd love to see the answer! On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I thought I'd add Why should we assume that the State's objectives will always be to get accurate coverage maps? Sure States with higher percentage of unserved areas would benefit from accurately showing userved areas. But what about the other more served states? Wouldn't they benefit by showing that their own states are more unserved than the realy are? Showing that a WISP covers an unserved area just means that that state might not qualify for Federal money to get fiber to those locations. Can we ever really rely on any mapping project to represent the WISP's interests, when the goal of the MApping is to develop a basis for possible future federal assistance to build fiber networks? Isn't most state's real mission to determine where there is and isn't fiber, to encourage the expansion of Fiber? What motive does the State appointed mappers have to cooperate and accommodate WISP's request for mapping? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information. The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When
[WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I only sent them GPS coordinates with tower height and frequency. Their spreadsheet was pretty massive so I told them that if it's for mapping purposes then what I gave them was enough for mapping purposes. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I offered to send them google earth overlays we use that come pretty close to reality but they said they couldn't use them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:04 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
You can send those to me and I will convert them so long as they are vector polygons and not the Google Earth image overlays you can create from Radio Mobile. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:22 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I offered to send them google earth overlays we use that come pretty close to reality but they said they couldn't use them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:04 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I submitted my data to them for showing my network on their map. The coverage map looked reasonably close to what we cover. I see no down side to allowing them to show that your area has broadband. I can see abig downside if this map is used for policy making and funding of where to build and you are NOT listed there. To each his own but I would rather have WISPs plastering their map myself. It would help our industry efforts I think. Scriv On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
I think once you have been doing it at least 2 years, you will begin to have a change of heart. We were in our infant stage. We begged for help and cooperation on helping us get access to multiple locations. They essentially said, Good luck!. All they did for us was cheerlead across KY about how to bridge the technology gaps. We had to get almost every independent ISP in KY to let the government know how bad they were doing. They mapped areas of potential for cable/dsl co's and pushed WildBlue like it was going out of style. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I'm not sure I've ever posted to the list here before. But I have to chime in on this. While New Era Broadband is a fledgling in the WISP arena, we owe our existence to Connect Ohio, especially their wireless guys Chip Spann and Layne Wagner. I've read everything everyone has said about CN and Connect Ohio. From 100% first hand experience, I disagree with about 90% if it. First, CN Connect Ohio are technology vendor neutral. So if you are looking for someone that is 100% in the WISP corner, you won't find it with them. That said, if you want WISP help, they will be 100% behind you. As for the comment that they are a telco tool . . . We have not found that to be the case in any way, shape or form in our dealing with them. Note: I said in OUR dealings with them. The maps? No matter who would make them, the are only as good as the info voluntarily submitted by the carriers. In our case, Windstream was just stupid in what they claim to cover. But, Connect Ohio could only go with what they were given. The engineering, tech support, help with putting funding proposals together, all of this has added up to a great experience for us. We are a new company - just been online since June of this year. We just put our third access point up a couple of weeks ago. But I have to say, to this point, CN/CO and Chip Layne have been good for us. Your results may vary. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC www.newerabroadband.com On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:35 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Same here. -RickG On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Maybe I'm sensitive or easily put off but the last Newsletter that we received from the Connect Ohio division of CN had me almost confront the CN coordinator at the meeting. I know that the mission is to provide broadband to EVERYONE and that includes those who can already afford access, (?) but every newsletter I get seems to be pandering to who they are getting their money from and doesn't have much to do with providing broadband in rural areas. (Many examples of ATT big shots in photo ops with state and local politicians donating PC's to schools and similar activities) Here is the word for word front page article in their newsletter. This alone caused me to rethink any participation in their efforts or lack of. ( Link is here http://www.connectohio.org/ ) How broadband changed my life I am a 48-year-old married mother of four with what you can imagine is a very busy life. My husband and I enjoy traveling, collecting and showing vintage cars, spending time at our cottage on Lake Erie and sailing. Our children range in age from 17 to 22, and we are currently hosting a 17-year-old exchange student from Brazil. Broadband has had two major influences on my life: 1. It has allowed me to log on to my work network from anywhere. I can work from home or check e-mails from the cottage. No longer am I tethered to my desk at work in order to get work done. 2. It has allowed me to further my education. I have recently gone back to school to obtain my master's degree in Management Information Technology. With my busy lifestyle, there is no way I could have realized this dream if I had to attend classes at a bricks and mortar school. The speed and convenience of broadband allows me to take all of my courses online, from anywhere. Uh. Here's my keywords in this. Vintage cars (plural) Cottage on Lake Erie, sailing, exchange student, Masters Degree in Information Technology. If I had to guess I would say that this person probably already had broadband before CN came along in one form or another and from the way it reads where she can go anyplace and be online, sounds like a wireless card from a cell company. Where is the relevance in this to what we are trying to accomplish? Just sounded like they were spotlighting someone that the people in charge could identify with instead of the single unemployed mother in rural Appalachia who is now able to sell her recipes or quilts or whatever to a world market...blah, blah, blah. A REAL change in someone's life, not just so some well to do middle aged educational tech coordinator can check her email while riding in one of their vintage cars or in the sail boat Shsh. Look, look! We helped your sister and now she can get her email while relaxing at the cottage on the lake after a long day of sailing! Makes me sick. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I think once you have been doing it at least 2 years, you will begin to have a change of heart. We were in our infant stage. We begged for help and cooperation on helping us get access to multiple locations. They essentially said, Good luck!. All they did for us was cheerlead across KY about how to bridge the technology gaps. We had to get almost every independent ISP in KY to let the government know how bad they were doing. They mapped areas of potential for cable/dsl co's and pushed WildBlue like it was going out of style. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I'm not sure I've ever posted to the list here before. But I have to chime in on this. While New Era Broadband is a fledgling in the WISP arena, we owe our existence to Connect Ohio, especially their wireless guys Chip Spann and Layne Wagner. I've read everything everyone has said about CN and Connect Ohio. From 100% first hand experience, I disagree with about 90% if it. First, CN Connect Ohio are technology vendor neutral. So if you are looking for someone that is 100% in the WISP corner, you won't find it with them. That said, if you want WISP help, they will be 100% behind you. As for the comment that they are a telco tool . . . We have not found that to be the case in any way, shape or form in our dealing with them. Note: I said in OUR dealings with them. The maps? No matter who would make them, the are only as good as the info voluntarily submitted by the carriers. In our case, Windstream was just stupid in what they claim to cover. But, Connect Ohio could only go with what they were given. The engineering, tech support, help with putting
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
And everyone just LOVES wild blue, except of course the people who actually have to use it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I think once you have been doing it at least 2 years, you will begin to have a change of heart. We were in our infant stage. We begged for help and cooperation on helping us get access to multiple locations. They essentially said, Good luck!. All they did for us was cheerlead across KY about how to bridge the technology gaps. We had to get almost every independent ISP in KY to let the government know how bad they were doing. They mapped areas of potential for cable/dsl co's and pushed WildBlue like it was going out of style. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I'm not sure I've ever posted to the list here before. But I have to chime in on this. While New Era Broadband is a fledgling in the WISP arena, we owe our existence to Connect Ohio, especially their wireless guys Chip Spann and Layne Wagner. I've read everything everyone has said about CN and Connect Ohio. From 100% first hand experience, I disagree with about 90% if it. First, CN Connect Ohio are technology vendor neutral. So if you are looking for someone that is 100% in the WISP corner, you won't find it with them. That said, if you want WISP help, they will be 100% behind you. As for the comment that they are a telco tool . . . We have not found that to be the case in any way, shape or form in our dealing with them. Note: I said in OUR dealings with them. The maps? No matter who would make them, the are only as good as the info voluntarily submitted by the carriers. In our case, Windstream was just stupid in what they claim to cover. But, Connect Ohio could only go with what they were given. The engineering, tech support, help with putting funding proposals together, all of this has added up to a great experience for us. We are a new company - just been online since June of this year. We just put our third access point up a couple of weeks ago. But I have to say, to this point, CN/CO and Chip Layne have been good for us. Your results may vary. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC www.newerabroadband.com On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:35 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Same here. -RickG On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
WildBlue and Hughsnet work for for folks who can't get ANYTHING else and can AFFORD it. We're picking thos folks up right and left. I've had both before. Better than dialup - but just barely. Cost is a killer. And a Windows update FAP's you out. Dave On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: If it wasn't WildBlue or HughesNet, DSL or Cable, it was the Wireless from ATT. We beat out all of those services with the exception of Cable, it's 10MB for $50/mo (without TV). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Maybe I'm sensitive or easily put off but the last Newsletter that we received from the Connect Ohio division of CN had me almost confront the CN coordinator at the meeting. I know that the mission is to provide broadband to EVERYONE and that includes those who can already afford access, (?) but every newsletter I get seems to be pandering to who they are getting their money from and doesn't have much to do with providing broadband in rural areas. (Many examples of ATT big shots in photo ops with state and local politicians donating PC's to schools and similar activities) Here is the word for word front page article in their newsletter. This alone caused me to rethink any participation in their efforts or lack of. ( Link is here http://www.connectohio.org/ ) How broadband changed my life I am a 48-year-old married mother of four with what you can imagine is a very busy life. My husband and I enjoy traveling, collecting and showing vintage cars, spending time at our cottage on Lake Erie and sailing. Our children range in age from 17 to 22, and we are currently hosting a 17-year-old exchange student from Brazil. Broadband has had two major influences on my life: 1. It has allowed me to log on to my work network from anywhere. I can work from home or check e-mails from the cottage. No longer am I tethered to my desk at work in order to get work done. 2. It has allowed me to further my education. I have recently gone back to school to obtain my master's degree in Management Information Technology. With my busy lifestyle, there is no way I could have realized this dream if I had to attend classes at a bricks and mortar school. The speed and convenience of broadband allows me to take all of my courses online, from anywhere. Uh. Here's my keywords in this. Vintage cars (plural) Cottage on Lake Erie, sailing, exchange student, Masters Degree in Information Technology. If I had to guess I would say that this person probably already had broadband before CN came along in one form or another and from the way it reads where she can go anyplace and be online, sounds like a wireless card from a cell company. Where is the relevance in this to what we are trying to accomplish? Just sounded like they were spotlighting someone that the people in charge could identify with instead of the single unemployed mother in rural Appalachia who is now able to sell her recipes or quilts or whatever to a world market...blah, blah, blah. A REAL change in someone's life, not just so some well to do middle aged educational tech coordinator can check her email while riding in one of their vintage cars or in the sail boat Shsh. Look, look! We helped your sister and now she can get her email while relaxing at the cottage on the lake after a long day of sailing! Makes me sick. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I think once you have been doing it at least 2 years, you will begin to have a change of heart. We were in our infant stage. We begged for help and cooperation on helping us get access to multiple locations. They essentially said, Good luck!. All they did for us was cheerlead across KY about how to bridge the technology gaps. We had to get almost every independent ISP in KY to let the government know how bad they were doing. They mapped areas of potential for cable/dsl co's and pushed WildBlue like it was going out of style. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I'm not sure I've ever posted to the list here before. But I have to chime in on this. While New Era Broadband is a fledgling in the WISP
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
I understand that but the way the thing reads, she can go anyplace now, that sounds like a cell card which she could have had already at the lake. As far as class, access to broadband is limited only by cash, for the most part. WildBlue is already available as long as you can see sky as well as probably high speed data from a cell company. My issue was the beating of the drum that someone who I assume already had access by virtue of disposable cash (cottage, vintage cars, etc.) can get her email. Why hold someone up like that as an example of what can be accomplished when I'm sure there are more compelling stories from the have nots? Just my thoughts on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Bob, There's not a lot of money in Meigs County Ohio where we are, but where the folks with money live in our county is where the broadband aint. The customers we are picking up are all across the board. Including the upper class who are sick of paying for satellite. Satellite is an option, but wireless is better. You can't VPN or remote access (in a usable manner) via satellite. So just because somebody can afford a cottage does not mean they have broadband. Besides, those are the folks who buy the packages you have the greatest margin on. Among our key clients is a doctor, who is also the county cornorer and the EMS director. It helps patients and the county that these folks can now work from home. The need for broadband transends class. Dave On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Maybe I'm sensitive or easily put off but the last Newsletter that we received from the Connect Ohio division of CN had me almost confront the CN coordinator at the meeting. I know that the mission is to provide broadband to EVERYONE and that includes those who can already afford access, (?) but every newsletter I get seems to be pandering to who they are getting their money from and doesn't have much to do with providing broadband in rural areas. (Many examples of ATT big shots in photo ops with state and local politicians donating PC's to schools and similar activities) Here is the word for word front page article in their newsletter. This alone caused me to rethink any participation in their efforts or lack of. ( Link is here http://www.connectohio.org/ ) How broadband changed my life I am a 48-year-old married mother of four with what you can imagine is a very busy life. My husband and I enjoy traveling, collecting and showing vintage cars, spending time at our cottage on Lake Erie and sailing. Our children range in age from 17 to 22, and we are currently hosting a 17-year-old exchange student from Brazil. Broadband has had two major influences on my life: 1. It has allowed me to log on to my work network from anywhere. I can work from home or check e-mails from the cottage. No longer am I tethered to my desk at work in order to get work done. 2. It has allowed me to further my education. I have recently gone back to school to obtain my master's degree in Management Information Technology. With my busy lifestyle, there is no way I could have realized this dream if I had to attend classes at a bricks and mortar school. The speed and convenience of broadband allows me to take all of my courses online, from anywhere. Uh. Here's my keywords in this. Vintage cars (plural) Cottage on Lake Erie, sailing, exchange student, Masters Degree in Information Technology. If I had to guess I would say that this person probably already had broadband before CN came along in one form or another and from the way it reads where she can go anyplace and be online, sounds like a wireless card from a cell company. Where is the relevance in this to what we are trying to accomplish? Just sounded like they were spotlighting someone that the people in charge could identify with instead of the single unemployed mother in rural Appalachia who is now able to sell her recipes or quilts or whatever to a world market...blah, blah, blah. A REAL change in someone's life, not just so some well to do middle aged educational tech coordinator can check her email while riding in one of their vintage cars or in the sail boat Shsh. Look, look! We helped your sister and now she can get her email while relaxing at the cottage on the lake after a long day of sailing! Makes me sick. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I think once you have been doing it at least 2 years, you will begin to have a change of heart. We were in our infant stage. We
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Yeah, that's my recollection too. We (wispa) almost joined an effort that they had going. In the end we (wispa) decided not to participate. I think Rick would remember more about that than I do. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, bad for us. Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
My only point (and this is my last one, then I'll go back to lurking) is that the comments appear to me that maybe we (WISPA members) were expecting Connect Ohio / CN to be a wireless only advocate. However, at least in Ohio, they received money to push broadband - regardless of the way it arrives at the home or business. Where we have requested help with our wireless business, we have received great help and and great cooperation. I don't expect them to favor wireless over FTTH or DSL, because those providers are paying taxes too. But where they do help me, I expect it to be unbiased. Their wireless folks have been straight shooters, and 100% dedicated to helping our wireless be successful. What limited success we've had so far, we owe in a big part to Connected Nation / Connect Ohio. Kind Regards, David Hannum Managing Partner New Era Broadband, LLC www.newerabroadband.com On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Yeah, that's my recollection too. We (wispa) almost joined an effort that they had going. In the end we (wispa) decided not to participate. I think Rick would remember more about that than I do. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, bad for us. Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Not me, I'm a realist for the most part. I read their mission as to help provide broadband in whatever manner it takes to do it. In our area, as someone mentioned, there is the fiber ring being built by Horizon Telecom out of Chillicothe. Very good! We want that. I'm for whatever it takes to build middle mile into the rural areas but you will get a faster and more bang for your buck out in BFE using wireless for last mile and CN knows that and they will say so. And to go further, if a Telco receives a big grant to install DSL out in no man's land with 1 house for every 4 square miles, I'll applaud that as well, believe it or not. My goal isn't to get all I can for me, I got into this to help provide access where there isn't any. But that kind of is my point when I jumped into this. CN or Connect Ohio doesn't look to me to be as interested in helping people who will never give them the spot light as they are showing how much they can hob-knob with state reps, congressmen, CEO's and how they helped someone with enough cash to provide their own access. All along, I'm out here trying to cut corners, work deals and provide the best service I can at cut rate prices so that those without the car collection, lake cottage and masters degree can afford it. To be perfectly honest, I really don't think they are providing a service that we didn't already have, aside from the mapping, and that could have been setup perfectly well by a non-profit or even a for-profit firm who have a local interest in this. I have received years of experience from the wireless community in a span of less than a year and it's free for the asking. There are even many here who, for a fee, and that's expected and respected, come and help you out of a jam or show you how to do things differently at all hours of the day and night. To have this CN person whip in once a month, pull out MS Project or Power Point and go over what we need to do for the next month and an hour and a half later leave... For the Telco's, not for the Telco's, for the Wisp, for the Dog Catcher, I really don't care. Less Schmooze and more action in the areas that need it most without all the crowing is all I ask. I learned this one thing a long time ago, The busiest person in town is the one you never know about. The laziest person in town is the one who is constantly telling everyone how busy they are. I see a lot of We're so busy coming from the non-tech side of this bunch. Too much talkie-talkie as I say in my most politically incorrect fake Chinese accent. Now, and I'm not trying to be a jerk (sometimes I don't have to trysigh) Did you pay them for any their services and if so, do you want to tell us a rough range of what it was? Not looking for fuel to add to it, I'm just really interested because they had such a hard sell when I talked to them and I dropped them quick. I would totally expect their tech guys to be straight shooters and good guys because I suspect they are like us and are never at the top of the food chain. It's the suits who muck it all up for us. I will never fault anyone for paying for info and for help when they need it, so I'm no finger pointer. I've wasted plenty of my own cash (and a lot more of my parents when I was younger. Ask them. After a long pause, my father may be able to bring himself to tell you) on my own personal tech addiction. :) Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation My only point (and this is my last one, then I'll go back to lurking) is that the comments appear to me that maybe we (WISPA members) were expecting Connect Ohio / CN to be a wireless only advocate. However, at least in Ohio, they received money to push broadband - regardless of the way it arrives at the home or business. Where we have requested help with our wireless business, we have received great help and and great cooperation. I don't expect them to favor wireless over FTTH or DSL, because those providers are paying taxes too. But where they do help me, I expect it to be unbiased. Their wireless folks have been straight shooters, and 100% dedicated to helping our wireless be successful. What limited success we've had so far, we owe in a big part to Connected Nation / Connect Ohio. Kind Regards, David Hannum Managing Partner New Era Broadband, LLC www.newerabroadband.com On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Yeah, that's my recollection too. We (wispa) almost joined an effort that they had going. In the end we (wispa) decided not to participate. I think Rick would remember more about that than I do. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 16
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Yeah, they have to. It's the only economical way to provide last mile in the sticks in a hurry. My issue isn't with that though, it's the energy wasted on self promotion. I don't have the answer on what they should do and I don't know if they should do anything at all. As I said before, those who have can easily afford broadband now, I'm more interested in helping provide to those who have not. And still make a buck or two of course, I'm not THAT dumb! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation Bob- Take a closer look at the Connect Ohio newsletters. Both the November edition and the Fall quarter newsletter feature WISPs ;) They speak wireless everywhere they go. Chris Cooper Intelliwave Maybe I'm sensitive or easily put off but the last Newsletter that we received from the Connect Ohio division of CN had me almost confront the CN coordinator at the meeting. I know that the mission is to provide broadband to EVERYONE and that includes those who can already afford access, (?) but every newsletter I get seems to be pandering to who they are getting their money from and doesn't have much to do with providing broadband in rural areas. (Many examples of ATT big shots in photo ops with state and local politicians donating PC's to schools and similar activities) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Chuck of ShelbyBB was able to get rid of the Kentucky one. As far as I know every other state has yet to build the immunity to the disease. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, bad for us. Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
I must have missed this discussion, but could someone point me to some threads where this conclusion was reached, or what some of the rationale was? Not trying to argue just trying to understand. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Chuck of ShelbyBB was able to get rid of the Kentucky one. As far as I know every other state has yet to build the immunity to the disease. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, bad for us. Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 13:40, Shaddi Hasan shad...@gmail.com wrote: I must have missed this discussion, but could someone point me to some threads where this conclusion was reached, or what some of the rationale was? Not trying to argue just trying to understand. The first two that come up in a search of the wireless@wispa.org archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2009-April/043708.html http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2008-January/031644.html (Those are the first posts in their respective threads, just follow along with the links at the bottom of the page) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Last year the WISPA Board went through an E X T E N S I V E review and discussion about Connected Nation. CN wanted WISPA to "join" which would have meant that they co-opt us. The Board's conclusion was "Bad for WISPA. CN is Telco tool". Of course, CN didn't go away. They kept on consolidating their political power and they apparently got several State governments to grant them statewide mapping franchises. Now their (probably inaccurate) maps may become the "official" broadband coverage maps. CN approached me again last April. I accepted their offer to "check out" their maps. I looked at their Minnesota State Map. It appeared to show that DSL was available in every square inch of the State. I found and still find it hard to believe that. I stopped talking with them at that time. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the little problem known as CN. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, "bad for us". Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 "When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Consulting, Technical Writing, Editing, Training, Wireless Mapping Serving the Wireless, Networking, and Telecom Communities Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Do they make a Visine for that? On 12/16/09 2:55 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Last year the WISPA Board went through an E X T E N S I V E review and discussion about Connected Nation. CN wanted WISPA to join which would have meant that they co-opt us. The Board's conclusion was Bad for WISPA. CN is Telco tool. Of course, CN didn't go away. They kept on consolidating their political power and they apparently got several State governments to grant them statewide mapping franchises. Now their (probably inaccurate) maps may become the official broadband coverage maps. CN approached me again last April. I accepted their offer to check out their maps. I looked at their Minnesota State Map. It appeared to show that DSL was available in every square inch of the State. I found and still find it hard to believe that. I stopped talking with them at that time. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the little problem known as CN. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: Been lots of discussion about this. Without repeating all that discussion, I think the conclusion has been, bad for us. Telco tool. Chuck On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Adam Kennedy Senior Network Administrator Cyberlink Technologies, Inc. Phone: 888-293-3693 x4352 Fax: 574-855-5761 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Hello, We are in the same state and chose not to give them the data either. Not only would it take us a good while to get the data they wanted we did not feel good about the setup. Until the state makes us or CN changes we will not be giving them any info. Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
The way connected nation has to abide by the broadband mapping grant rules, is quite different from the way they have operated on past projects. The recent threads about them were based on the fact that they appear to have a clueless person using Radio Mobile to generate WISP coverage maps. One person had said they were allowed to submit their own Radio Mobile maps to the state rather than have them create the RF plots. I would recommend that as a WISP you generate your own coverage maps (or hire someone to do that for you..shameless plug) and submit those results. Remember all of these state mapping projects will become the national broadband availability map. Consumers will use this as a tool to search for service. If you don't participate you will not get the benefit of that free marketing engine. Also you will have people applying for more grant money in your own service area should you be the only one servicing that location. Once these official maps are published there will not be any challenge process, rightfully so I might add. If you don't want to participate in letting people know where broadband exists, why should you be allowed to try and stop someone who is willing to tell consumers where they can get broadband. Thank You, Brian Webster On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
I submitted my information to them, actually exports of RM. Gerard introduced him to RM, but didn't train him by any means. We may have benefited from people searching for our service from them, but they have long been gone in our area and their loss of coverage maps has had no impact on new signups. Another issue I have with them, KY paid millions to them for the mapping project. It was live during the time the contract was active. Now that it is not, the data is gone and they won't let anyone access the mapping. So 2 years of work down the drain. The maps were largely inaccurate, but it had other census data, public utility data, and other things that was interesting to look at. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation The way connected nation has to abide by the broadband mapping grant rules, is quite different from the way they have operated on past projects. The recent threads about them were based on the fact that they appear to have a clueless person using Radio Mobile to generate WISP coverage maps. One person had said they were allowed to submit their own Radio Mobile maps to the state rather than have them create the RF plots. I would recommend that as a WISP you generate your own coverage maps (or hire someone to do that for you..shameless plug) and submit those results. Remember all of these state mapping projects will become the national broadband availability map. Consumers will use this as a tool to search for service. If you don't participate you will not get the benefit of that free marketing engine. Also you will have people applying for more grant money in your own service area should you be the only one servicing that location. Once these official maps are published there will not be any challenge process, rightfully so I might add. If you don't want to participate in letting people know where broadband exists, why should you be allowed to try and stop someone who is willing to tell consumers where they can get broadband. Thank You, Brian Webster On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 14:40 -0500, Shaddi Hasan wrote: I must have missed this discussion, but could someone point me to some threads where this conclusion was reached, or what some of the rationale was? Not trying to argue just trying to understand. THis was discussed primarily on the member's list, if I recall correctly. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
We have them here in Ohio. I'm back and forth on it. On one hand, the one time I tried asking for some info from them they wanted to charge me some consulting fee and so a spectrum analysis of the area had nothing to do with what I was asking so I shut them out. Then I started going to the meetings again, had one this morning as a matter of fact. They really don't seem to be anything more than a group that is collecting government monies and giving the politicians an excuse to say they are doing something. Every meeting I've gone to has been a waste of time and from what I have seen it's because they take the lead but don't do anything with it. Leadership with no action You may as well do nothing. The only bright spot I have had from them is a central place to go to find the census and mapping data. Other than that it's been a waste from my prospective. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
You guys are missing the point. Before the NTIA mapping grants were awarded, there were no specific rules as to how the mapping was to be done and how the data was supposed to be available and in what form. Now with these broadband mapping grants there is a national standard that they ALL (including connected nation) have to adhere to. The rules as they are written are sound and will produce good information that will be accessible to all. Not only will the states be conducting these mapping efforts, but they are required to turn copies of the data over to the NTIA who is charged with creating a National Broadband Map by congress. The days of connected nation creating their own rules are gone. Now don't get me wrong, I don't trust CN any farther than I can throw them but they are still required to meet the terms of the contracts in any states they have been awarded funding by these grants. Thank You, Brian Webster On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Their Connect Ohio site has an interactive map where you can choose what type of data you want in the map. That map. Jesus, what a pain in the butt that thing is to use. About the worst piece of online software I ever had to deal with. But for a quick check on the census I've found it okay to use with only minor inappropriate words uttered. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 5:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation I concur with Robert. I went to the first or second Connect Ohio meeting and came out laughing at what a waste of time, money and effort it was. Then I realized I'm paying for it and the smile went away. What did you find for census and mapping data? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: We have them here in Ohio. I'm back and forth on it. On one hand, the one time I tried asking for some info from them they wanted to charge me some consulting fee and so a spectrum analysis of the area had nothing to do with what I was asking so I shut them out. Then I started going to the meetings again, had one this morning as a matter of fact. They really don't seem to be anything more than a group that is collecting government monies and giving the politicians an excuse to say they are doing something. Every meeting I've gone to has been a waste of time and from what I have seen it's because they take the lead but don't do anything with it. Leadership with no action You may as well do nothing. The only bright spot I have had from them is a central place to go to find the census and mapping data. Other than that it's been a waste from my prospective. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Connected Nation
I'm not sure I've ever posted to the list here before. But I have to chime in on this. While New Era Broadband is a fledgling in the WISP arena, we owe our existence to Connect Ohio, especially their wireless guys Chip Spann and Layne Wagner. I've read everything everyone has said about CN and Connect Ohio. From 100% first hand experience, I disagree with about 90% if it. First, CN Connect Ohio are technology vendor neutral. So if you are looking for someone that is 100% in the WISP corner, you won't find it with them. That said, if you want WISP help, they will be 100% behind you. As for the comment that they are a telco tool . . . We have not found that to be the case in any way, shape or form in our dealing with them. Note: I said in OUR dealings with them. The maps? No matter who would make them, the are only as good as the info voluntarily submitted by the carriers. In our case, Windstream was just stupid in what they claim to cover. But, Connect Ohio could only go with what they were given. The engineering, tech support, help with putting funding proposals together, all of this has added up to a great experience for us. We are a new company - just been online since June of this year. We just put our third access point up a couple of weeks ago. But I have to say, to this point, CN/CO and Chip Layne have been good for us. Your results may vary. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC www.newerabroadband.com On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:35 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Same here. -RickG On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Bad for us. They pushed WildBlue and HughesNet over us because WB/Hughes paid them $10k to be a partner. They also provided the mapping for Bellsouth/ATT and Insight (cable co) and identified the areas that they should serve. In my guestimate, it hurt us to the tune of 50-150 customers. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Connected Nation Has anyone determined whether Connected Nation is good or bad for us? My state hired them for the map, but I don't want to respond with any information if the things I heard in the past are still true. I don't remember the points, I just remembered that they were bad news, so to avoid them. They sent me an NDA, but I never really read any of that stuff anyway. Most any contract is about as effective as a paper bag holding water. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Connected Tennessee
http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee
There is a growing controversy centered on the Connected Nation (Connect Kentucky, Connect Ohio, Connected Tennessee etc.) political-business efforts. The reason is that it appears that the primary beneficiaries are the ILEC phone companies and their drive to extend their power, influence and business dominance. This occurs (of course) at the expense of WISPs and small non-ILEC broadband providers. Here are some links so you can read up on it. (Commentary) http://www.drewclark.com/connect-kentucky-article-raises-bell-lobby-specter/ (Original Art Brodsky article) http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334 jack George Rogato wrote: http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee
But, but, but... we LOVE small rural ILECs... - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee There is a growing controversy centered on the Connected Nation (Connect Kentucky, Connect Ohio, Connected Tennessee etc.) political-business efforts. The reason is that it appears that the primary beneficiaries are the ILEC phone companies and their drive to extend their power, influence and business dominance. This occurs (of course) at the expense of WISPs and small non-ILEC broadband providers. Here are some links so you can read up on it. (Commentary) http://www.drewclark.com/connect-kentucky-article-raises-bell-lobby-specter/ (Original Art Brodsky article) http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334 jack George Rogato wrote: http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee
I am a founding member of Connect SI which is a broadband and economic development initiative aimed at improving economic development, in part, through better access to broadband in the 22 southern most counties of Illinois. This is similar but not exactly like the other initiatives referenced below. I have invited all WISPs in this region to join forces in this effort. Most just turn their noses up at it and say it is just to help the ILECs. It has helped me and I am not an ILEC. I started getting asked to meetings in front of schools, healthcare, municipalities, etc. as a direct result of my involvement in this effort. So far the ILECs have been part of the effort but have not controlled the agenda and have played fair. I have been involved in building list servers for various interests in Connect SI to help them communicate and we have designed and built a simple database solution which allows people, businesses, schools, etc. to ask for broadband. The system logs the requests and forwards the requests on to all vested network providers in the Connect SI region. The providers who shun the effort do not get to see the requests. If I acted as other WISPs and shunned the effort then I guess I would have a similar opinion that it is designed to only help the ILECs. Since I am involved in helping the effort helps me as well. I find that many WISPs either lack the desire or just distrust any effort which is something they do not own or control completely. I used to be the same way. I have been burnt before. I do not open myself up to being a target. I also do not automaticaly distrust efforts which are maybe different than how I might attack a problem. I often think that think tanks, government interests and educators take a wrong turn in policy building such as community broadband development projects. Instead of simply ignoring the efforts this time I decided to be part of the plan. In doing so I was able to build many valuable contacts and open doors that were always shut before. It does not hurt to go into these community building efforts like this and decide you are going to make them work for your own interests as well as those of tthe group. If others try to make things go wrong you have some control if you are inside. If you do not take part then your voice does not get heard and your interests will inevitably be ignored. I have little doubt that ILECs control many of the referenced iitiatives dicussed below. I also doubt that many of the WISPs have tried to be part of these efforts. If they did then I am guessing those that did are laughing all the way to the bank wondering why all the WISP competitors around them have ignored the opportunities. If you are a WISP and someone asks you to attend a planning meeting for any broadband initiatives in your area I strongly suggest you take them up on it. You only share what information you want to share with them and being there means they tell you everything they are planning. It is the only place to be in these efforts from my perspective. If others here have been active in any of the referenced efforts please share your thoughts. From my end I see little to dislike when I am one of those inside the effort. Scriv On Jan 31, 2008 3:07 PM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a growing controversy centered on the Connected Nation (Connect Kentucky, Connect Ohio, Connected Tennessee etc.) political-business efforts. The reason is that it appears that the primary beneficiaries are the ILEC phone companies and their drive to extend their power, influence and business dominance. This occurs (of course) at the expense of WISPs and small non-ILEC broadband providers. Here are some links so you can read up on it. (Commentary) http://www.drewclark.com/connect-kentucky-article-raises-bell-lobby-specter/ (Original Art Brodsky article) http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334 jack George Rogato wrote: http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee
Now that is something I can agree with, RBOC spelled another way is BORG. - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee I think WISPs should start looking less at ILECs as being an enemy and realize that in 99% of the cases it is the RBOCs who are the real problem. I work with some of the ILECs around me and most are great people who are running a business just like the rest of us. Many ILECs are WISPs these days too. Like it or not the ILECs are part of our culture now. If I remember right you are actually an ILEC aren't you Chuck? :-) Scriv On Jan 31, 2008 3:19 PM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, but, but... we LOVE small rural ILECs... - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee There is a growing controversy centered on the Connected Nation (Connect Kentucky, Connect Ohio, Connected Tennessee etc.) political-business efforts. The reason is that it appears that the primary beneficiaries are the ILEC phone companies and their drive to extend their power, influence and business dominance. This occurs (of course) at the expense of WISPs and small non-ILEC broadband providers. Here are some links so you can read up on it. (Commentary) http://www.drewclark.com/connect-kentucky-article-raises-bell-lobby-specter/ (Original Art Brodsky article) http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334 jack George Rogato wrote: http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee
I like the Broadband Mapping that Virgina Tech is working on: http://www.ecorridors.vt.edu/maps/broadbandmap.php I would like to see more of this type of mapping on a national level. I have added our WISP to the map and I check back often. I am encouraged to see other WISPs listing their services. Victoria St. Louis Broadband www.stlbroadband.com On 1/31/08, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that is something I can agree with, RBOC spelled another way is BORG. - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee I think WISPs should start looking less at ILECs as being an enemy and realize that in 99% of the cases it is the RBOCs who are the real problem. I work with some of the ILECs around me and most are great people who are running a business just like the rest of us. Many ILECs are WISPs these days too. Like it or not the ILECs are part of our culture now. If I remember right you are actually an ILEC aren't you Chuck? :-) Scriv On Jan 31, 2008 3:19 PM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, but, but... we LOVE small rural ILECs... - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connected Tennessee There is a growing controversy centered on the Connected Nation (Connect Kentucky, Connect Ohio, Connected Tennessee etc.) political-business efforts. The reason is that it appears that the primary beneficiaries are the ILEC phone companies and their drive to extend their power, influence and business dominance. This occurs (of course) at the expense of WISPs and small non-ILEC broadband providers. Here are some links so you can read up on it. (Commentary) http://www.drewclark.com/connect-kentucky-article-raises-bell-lobby-specter/ (Original Art Brodsky article) http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334 jack George Rogato wrote: http://www.connectedtennessee.org/mapping__research/availability_maps/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Visit us @ www.StLBroadband.com 314-974-5600 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
