Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?
Seems to me that Providers of Miniature Clips for Business is more of a tag line and not really appropriate to put in an h1 heading. -- Brett P. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:10, EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.netwrote: No but you can wrap MiniClip - Providers of Miniature Clips for Business. -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Grant *Sent:* 16 October 2009 16:00 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? That's only relevant if your site has a keyword in the logo (e.g. Free Online Games), where each of the words is a form of a keyword, while if your site is called MiniClip, there is not much point in wrapping H1 around it. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:52 PM, EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net wrote: The way to wrap the H1 for the logo is not to wrap it around an image, the fist H1 should be text with keywords for the page that is being represented in a grammatical format, with clever use of CSS these can be styled up to look like graphic logos but degrade for accessibility and provide a tool to get the H1 as the first element in a page whilst complementing the semantics, accessibility and seo requirements. -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *ja...@flexewebs.com *Sent:* 16 October 2009 15:45 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? Yes but my argument against putting the H1 around the logo is that the logo is present on all pages and typically each site will be optimised for it's brand name (e.g. Flexewebs) so no value in highlighting that. I would potentially agree with you if you were arguing for putting H1 around other content within the page, but certainly not the logo. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -- *From: *EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net *Date: *Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:36:00 +0100 *To: *wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject: *RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? Okay so the justify, the first H1 is the title of a page which is to be shown at the top of a page commonly used as the logo. The next h1 will be the subject title i.e. Welcome to... so semantically this would require more the 1 H1. For accessibility which styles switched off it clearly breaks up the pages, and has a similar effect for screen readers. Hope this makes it a little clearer. -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Grant *Sent:* 16 October 2009 15:25 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? EBS Admin - Matt doesn't say to use multiple H1s on the page, but says that you will not get penalised for using them (within reason) on a given page. Every site I ever worked on I had used only one H1 on and it still enjoys being on first page of Google. My formula, hence, does not only say Google or only Accessibility, but all of the points I mentioned. You say it is semantic to use more than one H1, but don't actually justify your reasoning behind it. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM, EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net wrote: Jason, Thats clearly not the case, if you read the WIA guidlines then is advocates the use of multiple H1's, from an semantic point of view they make sense and in terms of SEO the make sense because every site we've built uses mutiple H1's and they enjoy page 1 results on Google. The video that Tim has just sent in is by Google and they say to use multiple H1's! -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Grant *Sent:* 16 October 2009 14:48 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest) Tim To keep it really simple: Spec + SEO + Good IA + Semantics + Accessibility + Common sense == One H1 per page Hope this makes sense? Thanks, Jason On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Tim White tjameswh...@gmail.comwrote: OK, straight from Google Webmaster Central: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VMfeature=channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VMfeature=channel(video from March 2009) Tim On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.comwrote: Tim, Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must. However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices as well as general semantics and IA best practices. So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not the be all and end all of guidelines. Thanks, Jason On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White tjameswh...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri,
Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?
EBS Admin, from what I read it looked like it was a motto, not some keywords. -- Brett P. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:29, EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.netwrote: Hi Darren, Maybe if you read what I wrote properly you would see that the H1 surrounding the logo has different key words in it depending on the page. I use text h1Site name – keywords/h1 as my logo and style it with CSS and therefore each one is unique, semantic and great for SEO -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Darren Lovelock *Sent:* 16 October 2009 16:33 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? To have the logo as a H1 on every page will most likely trigger spam filters in the search engines as you are duplicating the heading throughout the website, they should always be unique. Anyone advising to do this to boost your page's keyword relevancy simply doesn't know what they are talking about. I cant think of a single reason why you would wrap a H1 around a logo as there is no advantage to you, search engines or your visitors. Maybe if you had a business directory where each listing had its own logo and alt text of the company name then it could work there but not if there was already an H1 on the page. The only case that you could possibly use two H1s on a page is if you had a page containing two entirely different topics. But then again wouldn't you just put this content on two separate pages? If your sites theme is to write about lots of different content e.g. a general blog, then it should have a main H1 and each topic be summarised using H2's and then include a link to their own individual pages. Why is the topic starter looking for reasons for why they shouldn't do it, when they should be asking themselves what is their reason for using the H1 this way in the first place? Did they see it on some 'SEO's website and think 'they must know what they are doing so I'll copy them'? LOL Maybe they should listen to the SEO expert they've already spoken to... I would have thought it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't do it ;) Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *EBS Admin *Sent:* 16 October 2009 15:52 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? The way to wrap the H1 for the logo is not to wrap it around an image, the fist H1 should be text with keywords for the page that is being represented in a grammatical format, with clever use of CSS these can be styled up to look like graphic logos but degrade for accessibility and provide a tool to get the H1 as the first element in a page whilst complementing the semantics, accessibility and seo requirements. -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *ja...@flexewebs.com *Sent:* 16 October 2009 15:45 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? Yes but my argument against putting the H1 around the logo is that the logo is present on all pages and typically each site will be optimised for it's brand name (e.g. Flexewebs) so no value in highlighting that. I would potentially agree with you if you were arguing for putting H1 around other content within the page, but certainly not the logo. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -- *From: *EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net *Date: *Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:36:00 +0100 *To: *wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject: *RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? Okay so the justify, the first H1 is the title of a page which is to be shown at the top of a page commonly used as the logo. The next h1 will be the subject title i.e. Welcome to... so semantically this would require more the 1 H1. For accessibility which styles switched off it clearly breaks up the pages, and has a similar effect for screen readers. Hope this makes it a little clearer. -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Grant *Sent:* 16 October 2009 15:25 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1? EBS Admin - Matt doesn't say to use multiple H1s on the page, but says that you will not get penalised for using them (within reason) on a given page. Every site I ever worked on I had used only one H1 on and it still enjoys being on first page of Google. My formula, hence, does not only say Google or only Accessibility, but all of the points I mentioned. You say it is semantic to use more than one H1, but don't actually justify your reasoning behind it. On Fri, Oct 16,
[WSG] What is a Perl, NFA and Java Usenet group?
Hi all! Does anyone know a good Usenet group that deals with Perl, NFAs and Java? I need one that deals with all three together, and would like to have more specific groups that deal with each one in particular, as well. Please reply off-list, as this is off-topic from the group. Regards, -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Oh, that is a good point! Let's do!!! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tony McNulty ton...@gmail.com wrote: Just for that I think we should keep him on! -- *From*: Brett Patterson *Date*: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 *To*: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject*: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :changing font sizes from within a page.
I agree with James. Although, I find the best possible, all-around solution is to use all of the above! If the user does not have JavaScript/cookies enabled, then the user will use their browser, else they cannot view the text in large size. If the user does have JavaScript/cookies enabled, then the user can use that method to enlarge font size, whether they know or do not know how to use the browser to enlarge font size. This gives all opportunities to the user for any circumstance they may be in, and allows you to do some quick development, without much worry! -- Brett P. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:38 AM, James Leslie james.les...@transversal.comwrote: I would be grateful if someone could tell me what is the current best practice for letting users change the font-size (e.g., by clicking on three 'a's of different sizes to make different css files be used) on the web site. Is it still a good idea, or do we go for the approach of using the browser to do it? Any and all helpful suggestions gratefully appreciated. Comes down to the 'give a man a fish/teach a man to fish' principle for me. If you explain to the user how to use their browser settings to change the text size then they can use that on any site. If you use the 3 A's it only holds up for your site (and breaks if cookies/JavaScript are turned off) James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] JavaScript Language Clarifying within HTML
I am not sure about the most recent standards regarding the language attribute of the SCRIPT tag within an HTML page, so I would like to know if it is still recommended to use the language attribute within the SCRIPT tag? And what version, if it is recommended to use that attribute, would one specify to have the most in both backwards and forwards compatibility? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript Language Clarifying within HTML
Thank you! -- Brett P. On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:48 AM, David Dixon da...@terrainferno.net wrote: The language attribute was deprecated in html 4, so I wouldn't advise using it. see: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.1 Thanks, David On 14/7/09 13:23, Brett Patterson wrote: I am not sure about the most recent standards regarding the language attribute of the SCRIPT tag within an HTML page, so I would like to know if it is still recommended to use the language attribute within the SCRIPT tag? And what version, if it is recommended to use that attribute, would one specify to have the most in both backwards and forwards compatibility? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Image mapping standards question
It has recently come to my attention the struggles of an end-user when viewing images for any user. I have seen sites such as Facebook, MySpace, and other sites where pictures are hosted use roll-overs for recognizing certain parts of an image. I realize that this can be done using image maps as well as when using image mapping, I can add alternative text not only to the img tag itself, but the maps as well to show and describe certain features I feel are important. Are there recommendations for or against this approach? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Background image not visible in ie
Have you used the CSS: background-position: center center; ? -- Brett P. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Ben Dodson b...@bendodson.com wrote: It does of course require JavaScript which isn't strictly necessary as you can get the same effect with just CSS (especially for the purposes of the example given initially). With regards to background image positioning, I'm fairly sure there is no way to stop it going to position (0,0) as that's how the Microsoft Filter works. Ben --- *e:* b...@bendodson.com *w:* http://bendodson.com/ Feeling social? Connect with me on various social networks at http://social.bendodson.com/ - You might also want to follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/bendodson On 29 Apr 2009, at 13:46, James Leslie wrote: The guys over at unit interactive also have a help script to help fix the issues with transparent PNG images in IE6. http://labs.unitinteractive.com/unitpngfix.php I highly recommend this script very handy and concise. The one problem I have noticed with it is that it doesn't respect background position on background images - everything goes to (0,0) . If this is ok, it is a great solution and can of course be applied via a conditional comment meaning no superfluous code for 'decent' browsers. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
Getting back on subject, I do not think the box model has been fixed in IE7, but I do not know for sure. You might try adding margin for separation with containing div tags in browsers. -- Brett P. Is the box model in IE7 still messed up? I thought they sorted it? I am floating a div to the right with a width of 50%. The div to the left has a right margin of 50%. I've put a 1px solid border on both of them. In IE7 there is a gap between them but in Firefox they are right against each other. Go figure? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
Well, good deal then. :) -- Brett P. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rimantas Liubertas riman...@gmail.comwrote: Getting back on subject, I do not think the box model has been fixed in IE7, but I do not know for sure. You might try adding margin for separation with containing div tags in browsers. Once again: box model was fixed in IE6, given your page has proper doctype (and nothing above it). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb250395.aspx#cssenhancements_topic3 Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
I have always been told to use something along the lines of either body {
font-size: 100%; /* a fix for internet explorer */ } because of the way IE
reads/sizes font. Starting out with html at only 62.5% font-sizing would
completely mess up IE and the font in the browser would it not?
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM, CK jobs@bushidodeep.com wrote:
Hi,
Would you elaborate on why the CSS rule invalidates the article? As it
appears the authors explanation is sound.
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
CK
On Apr 23, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Christopher Kennon wrote:
S,
See this article from Links for light Reading scrolling down a bit
you'll
find a JS solution that may prove useful:
Why Programmers Suck at CSS Design
http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/169/http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/169/
That article ceased to be credible as soon as I saw:
My suggestion for you is to do the following: start your CSS
stylesheet with
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Stevio wrote:
Is the box model in IE7 still messed up? I thought they sorted it?
It is fixed in standards mode, but I think it uses the broken model
in quirks mode.
I am floating a div to the right with a width of 50%. The div to the left
has a right margin of 50%. I've put a 1px solid border on both of them.
In
IE7 there is a gap between them but in Firefox they are right against
each
other.
Go figure?
--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
===
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
Well, according to the rules as I have read, Browser font-sizing takes
precedence in certain circumstances...so, if the user's font-size is 14pt.
then that means the body text font-size will be 62.5% of that. This goes in
according to the rules of inheritance...I have never actually seen anyone
set font-size in html, let alone at 62.5% or 74%. But I have, however, seen
it at body at 100%.
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote:
We were told in the past by a massive client that for accessibility
purposes font sizes needed to be set to 74% as a minimum as the basic
reading size below which it's a straign on the eyes.
I personally don't mess with browser defaults and don't tend to use resets,
but for minimal purposes only.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
I have always been told to use something along the lines of either body {
font-size: 100%; /* a fix for internet explorer */ } because of the way IE
reads/sizes font. Starting out with html at only 62.5% font-sizing would
completely mess up IE and the font in the browser would it not?
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM, CK jobs@bushidodeep.com wrote:
Hi,
Would you elaborate on why the CSS rule invalidates the article? As it
appears the authors explanation is sound.
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
CK
On Apr 23, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Christopher Kennon wrote:
S,
See this article from Links for light Reading scrolling down a bit
you'll
find a JS solution that may prove useful:
Why Programmers Suck at CSS Design
http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/169/http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/169/
That article ceased to be credible as soon as I saw:
My suggestion for you is to do the following: start your CSS
stylesheet with
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Stevio wrote:
Is the box model in IE7 still messed up? I thought they sorted it?
It is fixed in standards mode, but I think it uses the broken model
in quirks mode.
I am floating a div to the right with a width of 50%. The div to the
left
has a right margin of 50%. I've put a 1px solid border on both of
them. In
IE7 there is a gap between them but in Firefox they are right against
each
other.
Go figure?
--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
===
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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--
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469
www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
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Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
Forgot to mention that you do set specific formatting on text afterwards, as
you mentioned, Janice. And I might add that that is a good point Christian,
it does seem a little silly!
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, according to the rules as I have read, Browser font-sizing takes
precedence in certain circumstances...so, if the user's font-size is 14pt.
then that means the body text font-size will be 62.5% of that. This goes in
according to the rules of inheritance...I have never actually seen anyone
set font-size in html, let alone at 62.5% or 74%. But I have, however, seen
it at body at 100%.
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote:
We were told in the past by a massive client that for accessibility
purposes font sizes needed to be set to 74% as a minimum as the basic
reading size below which it's a straign on the eyes.
I personally don't mess with browser defaults and don't tend to use
resets, but for minimal purposes only.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
I have always been told to use something along the lines of either body {
font-size: 100%; /* a fix for internet explorer */ } because of the way IE
reads/sizes font. Starting out with html at only 62.5% font-sizing would
completely mess up IE and the font in the browser would it not?
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM, CK jobs@bushidodeep.com wrote:
Hi,
Would you elaborate on why the CSS rule invalidates the article? As it
appears the authors explanation is sound.
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
CK
On Apr 23, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Christopher Kennon wrote:
S,
See this article from Links for light Reading scrolling down a bit
you'll
find a JS solution that may prove useful:
Why Programmers Suck at CSS Design
http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/169/http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/169/
That article ceased to be credible as soon as I saw:
My suggestion for you is to do the following: start your CSS
stylesheet with
html {
font-size: 62.5%;
}
On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Stevio wrote:
Is the box model in IE7 still messed up? I thought they sorted it?
It is fixed in standards mode, but I think it uses the broken model
in quirks mode.
I am floating a div to the right with a width of 50%. The div to the
left
has a right margin of 50%. I've put a 1px solid border on both of
them. In
IE7 there is a gap between them but in Firefox they are right against
each
other.
Go figure?
--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
===
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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--
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469
www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
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[WSG] Possible layout problems with using this CSS code?
Would using:
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}
before the body to zero out all margins, paddings and borders, cause any
accessibility problems or any problems one should be made aware of before
using it for layout?
--
Brett P.
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Re: [WSG] Re: Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?
Okay, thank you all. I will use the Yahoo! Graded Browser Support matrix for information. -- Brett P. On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 3:23 AM, Ted Drake tdr...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: The Yahoo! Graded Browser Support matrix is a good standard of what browsers are appropriately supported. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ You can point clients to this page for justifications. It is appropriate for general use web sites. If your users are disproportionally stuck behind outdated computers this will not work. Ted -- *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Sam Sherlock *Sent:* Friday, March 20, 2009 4:25 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Re: Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back? Old Mac Users are stuck I tried to a get a friends mac online and using Yahoo Mail (around the time a ymail dropped support of that browser) it had ie5 and nothing would work at all, no other options it was a second hand (supposedly cost effective machine) phazed into obselence. I frequently see IE6 on win xp in my logs, I have been in net cafes that refuse to update ie to 7 on xp (they did not express why). I am yearning for the day when IE6 can be removed from the equation, but I find following a few simple guidelines much of the trauma can be alleviated (I have just tested a basic liquid grid in ie6 and all is seeming well). I say to clients that I support browsers currently supported by respect vendors + IE6 on xp / win2k (but when more advanced features are aimed for these may work or not on such horrid browsers - and if so to a lesser degree) ~ Its been a while since I have seen win ie 5.x in a log of any of my sites The web is rapidly evolving, which make treeware pretty bad at keeping up. when at college 10+ years ago my lecturer advised to avoid books - since anything printed will need revision by the time its printed (it was seen as an extreme view then ~ still like books myself but I understood his gist) Going too far back prevents much progress ~ clients usually appreciate that Verify everything you read by seeing what others have to say in 'blogsphere'. There is discussion about the jQuery.com site not displaying correctly in IE7 currently the issue has not been identified as yet but the cause is thought to be a plugin/addon for the browsers. (thats something to be careful of when testing ~ if a client complains about display issues check what extensions to the browser are being used) @Sigurd - I am suprised to hear that Silverstripe administration supports IE6. I have been meaning to checkout Silverstripe having heard great things about it and what I have seen is very impressive indeed - S 2009/3/20 MichaelMD md...@spraci.com On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 21:10 +1300, Sigurd Magnusson wrote: Most websites we build at SilverStripe have IE 6.0 as a minimum, and even then, we're unpatiently anticipating the time when we can drop IE 6. I still see quite a few people using IE5 Mac (probably OS9 users stuck with that) in the server logs here and LOTS of IE6 ... so I think it will be a while somehow... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?
Hi all, I was just reading from a book that talked about some code that would not work in Internet Explorer 3.0, but would in Internet Explorer 4.0 and later, and Netscape Navigator 3.0 and later. This brought up a question that I could not find direct and consistent answers while searching the Internet...so, how far back would it be acceptable to design for, when it comes to backwards browser compatibility? I have been told from some sites, that Internet Explorer 5.0/later and Netscape Navigator 4.0/later, as well as Firefox 1.5/later and Opera 6.0/later. Is this correct? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
You might could try the custom installation when installing and then creating and naming a different folder in your Program Files folder...name it something different than the currently installed Safari browser's folder... -- Brett P. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Gregorio Espadas gespa...@gmail.comwrote: Hi folks... I want to install Safari 4 in Microsoft Windows for testing pourposes, but I don't want to dismiss Safari 3.2. I've been searching for a solution (installing Safari 4 without affect the current installation of Safari 3.2), but I didn't find anything. I find out that the Safari 4 installation updates the Webkit Framework, not only the browser itself... so, I guess installing in a different folder won't work. I'm aware that Safari 4 includes a User Agent changer, but I guess this tool is not for rendering, only for masquerade in order to use certain webapps. Any one knows how to accomplish this goal? I'll appreciate any suggestion. Gregorio Espadas *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
Yea, I would never consider allowing it on any project I am working on
either...I was actually asking because I have heard that it could be done,
but never really understood (maybe, come to think of it, heard) what the
downfalls were. I do, now, thanks to you and Russ Weakley.
--
Brett P.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:17 AM, michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote:
In my own personal opinion, if you get into the situation where you want
to use a selector like:
.class1.class2 { stuff }
then it is time to do a little re-factoring. The whole point of allowing an
element to have two or more classes is so that each class remains
semantically logical. As you pointed out, it is legal to use a selector like
the above, but I would never allow such code on any project I was working
on. Worst case is you need to be more specific with your rules. Obviously,
the cascade determines exactly which rule will win, but I would also be very
wary of relying on source-order - it would be far too easy for you (or
someone else) to decide to tidy up the stylesheet at some point and change
the order of these two rules.
Mike
Mike Brockington
Web Development Specialist
www.calcResult.com
www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk
www.edinburgh.gov.uk
This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the
author alone.
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[WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
Hey all, a quick question, consider the following code: div id=id-name!-- Containing Div Tag -- div class=first-class!-- Contains the first content to appear (let's say) -- p class=informationContent goes here on line 1/p /div div class=second-class!-- Contains the second content here... -- p class=information more-styles!-- It has been determined that, not only should class=information apply to this paragraph, but also a different style to apply to THIS particular paragraph as well, without affecting others --Content goes here on line 2/p /div Note the space in the second paragraph class attribute...from what I have heard this allows multiple classes to be applied to a single element. Is there a downfall to applying multiple classes to an element, like the one above? How does it affect UAs? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
So, where:
p class=information more-styles
what I was wondering (I should have worded better, sorry) was if I took:
.information
{
background-color: #FFF;
color: #000;
}
/* This below, will apply only to the paragraph with the more-styles class
applied to it */
.more-styles
{
color: #333;
}
and applied to both of those paragraph (through the classes), which is the
last paragraph. The first paragraph has only one class assigned to
it...whereas, the last paragraph has 2 classes assigned: the first class
assigned, i.e. information, contains the formatting (the formatting applied
is the background-color, and the font's color (color)) that will apply to
all the paragraphs with that class assigned to them (it); the last class
assigned, i.e. more-styles, will change only the font's color in that
particular paragraph...
Is what the style you have applied, like if I had done this instead of what
is applied at the top?:::
.information.more-styles
{
styles: here;
}
--
Brett P.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Matthew Pennell
matthewpenn...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
Note the space in the second paragraph class attribute...from what I have
heard this allows multiple classes to be applied to a single element. Is
there a downfall to applying multiple classes to an element, like the one
above? How does it affect UAs?
There are no negative effects to applying multiple classes to a single
element. The only problem is when you try to style an element that matches
two (or more) classnames, e.g.:
#content .primary.highlighted {
background: #ff0;
}
That will work in Firefox/Safari, and apply the rule to any element with
both the primary and highlighted classes; but in IE6 it doesn't work, it
will just see it as .highlighted.
- Matthew
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Re: [WSG] a Div tag won't pick up the height of a floated image?
Okay, I have found a viable solution, so thanks to those that helped, your links were much appreciated. -- Brett P. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Luke Hoggett luke.hogg...@gmail.comwrote: Perhaps google.com might help. Really Brett this list is to discuss web standards, not to provide tutorials for lazy people. On 17/02/2009, at 5:25, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: Will a div tag pick up the height of an image that is floated left? I have an image that is floated to the left and an unordered list that I am trying to get to move to the right side of an image, in a horizontal layout...the unordered list (navigation bar) is also in a horizontal line position. I need the navigation to align to the bottom of the image...the image's height is 100px, and the width is 200px...how would I accomplish this? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] a Div tag won't pick up the height of a floated image?
Will a div tag pick up the height of an image that is floated left? I have an image that is floated to the left and an unordered list that I am trying to get to move to the right side of an image, in a horizontal layout...the unordered list (navigation bar) is also in a horizontal line position. I need the navigation to align to the bottom of the image...the image's height is 100px, and the width is 200px...how would I accomplish this? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A Semi-Transparent Background Color?
Okay, so, after doing a little bit of research and asking the company where
the styles will be applied, I have found that it will be placed similarly to
code placed in a MySpace page...I am assuming developed similarly to a
myspace page's basic starting code. I am applying or practicing the code
on my personal MySpace page to see the results...my MySpace page can be seen
at http://www.myspace.com/irontombraider
--
Brett P.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
To Mike, with what I am currently applying this code to it won't work,
unfortunately. But, thanks for the link, it will be needed for a project to
be completed in the near future. ;)
To Luke, thanks for the link on the search, I will delve into it in a bit.
:)
To Lewis, Matthew, the link you gave me, gives me...somewhat...the desired
result, however, the code I am forced to apply it to cannot be changed, so
instead of just the background becoming semi-transparent, the whole thing is
transparent. :(
The site I am applying this code to, was built completely with tables,
sub-tables, sub-sub-tables, etc. Few, if any, (I believe only a few main
tables) have id and class attributes to them. A sample of the css targeting
for these tables appears below:
table table table td
{
background-image:url(
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/learnTheGame/madeown/ohtransparency.png
);
filter:alpha(opacity=10);
-moz-opacity:0.1;
opacity: 0.1;
-khtml-opacity:10;
}
table table table table td
{
filter:alpha(opacity=100);
-moz-opacity:100;
opacity:1.0;
-khtml-opacity:100;
}
table table table table
{
border:0px;
}
I think the site itself was created with some sort of standard table-only
page creator...but, I cannot honestly say for sure. There is no way for me
to access any code other than what is located within the CSS style sheet, as
permissions will not allow me to. That being said, is there a way, using the
above CSS code, to not force all content within the individual Table (td)
tags to become transparent as well, only the background of the tables and
td's?
--
Brett P.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Lewis, Matthew m...@xhtml.co.nz wrote:
There is this article:
http://css-tricks.com/css-transparency-settings-for-all-broswers/
On 12/02/2009, at 1:04 PM, Brett Patterson wrote:
Hi all,
I was wondering why there was no implementation to allow a
semi-transparent background color using CSS? If there is, is there a link
that would point me in the direction to figure out how to go about
implementing it on a Web page?
--
Brett P.
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[WSG] A Semi-Transparent Background Color?
Hi all, I was wondering why there was no implementation to allow a semi-transparent background color using CSS? If there is, is there a link that would point me in the direction to figure out how to go about implementing it on a Web page? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A Semi-Transparent Background Color?
To Mike, with what I am currently applying this code to it won't work,
unfortunately. But, thanks for the link, it will be needed for a project to
be completed in the near future. ;)
To Luke, thanks for the link on the search, I will delve into it in a bit.
:)
To Lewis, Matthew, the link you gave me, gives me...somewhat...the desired
result, however, the code I am forced to apply it to cannot be changed, so
instead of just the background becoming semi-transparent, the whole thing is
transparent. :(
The site I am applying this code to, was built completely with tables,
sub-tables, sub-sub-tables, etc. Few, if any, (I believe only a few main
tables) have id and class attributes to them. A sample of the css targeting
for these tables appears below:
table table table td
{
background-image:url(
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/learnTheGame/madeown/ohtransparency.png
);
filter:alpha(opacity=10);
-moz-opacity:0.1;
opacity: 0.1;
-khtml-opacity:10;
}
table table table table td
{
filter:alpha(opacity=100);
-moz-opacity:100;
opacity:1.0;
-khtml-opacity:100;
}
table table table table
{
border:0px;
}
I think the site itself was created with some sort of standard table-only
page creator...but, I cannot honestly say for sure. There is no way for me
to access any code other than what is located within the CSS style sheet, as
permissions will not allow me to. That being said, is there a way, using the
above CSS code, to not force all content within the individual Table (td)
tags to become transparent as well, only the background of the tables and
td's?
--
Brett P.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Lewis, Matthew m...@xhtml.co.nz wrote:
There is this article:
http://css-tricks.com/css-transparency-settings-for-all-broswers/
On 12/02/2009, at 1:04 PM, Brett Patterson wrote:
Hi all,
I was wondering why there was no implementation to allow a
semi-transparent background color using CSS? If there is, is there a link
that would point me in the direction to figure out how to go about
implementing it on a Web page?
--
Brett P.
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Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!
Okay, one quick question. You say 200% is twice the default size, but in browsers like Firefox 3, there is only the (shortcut) Ctrl++ to zoom in, and I cannot find the percentage of that zoom, so is 200% font size increasement one or two clicks? -- Brett P. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote: tee wrote: IS 200% one time font size increasement or two? 200% is twice the default size, and the number of steps to get there varies from browser to browsers. Again: _default_ isn't whatever size you have declared in/for your document, but the browsers' own defaults. This default font size is what you see on your screen(s) when you do not declare font-size at all in your documents. Then, make the letters in the text twice as tall in the browser itself, without zooming the page as a whole. That is 200% font resizing - the kind that actually works for end-users. My practise for a good layout is two times increasement, and I try to accommodate one decrement, but sometimes with certain design layout, especially with floated elements that either one or both have background image(s) that the underneath div block has different background color, it's just too much work to take good care and I let it goes without guilt :) Guilt would be misplaced no matter what, and shouldn't be an issue. No matter what you do you're in good (or good) company :-) It is however your creation that gets broken if it can't take a reasonable amount of the stress it risks getting exposed to when end-users use their browsers as designed, so you can't complain about it being broken either. That foreground and background get somewhat detached here and there is quite normal, and in some cases unavoidable with today's browsers and standards when background-images are used. Resizing of background-images to go with containers is only implemented on an experimental level in one or maybe two browsers - have only seen/tested it in Opera. We have only the tool-set that is available in browsers at any given time to play with, and when that tool-set isn't sufficient we either have to scale back our, or our clients', ambitions and use somewhat safe solutions, or we have to accept that our designs break. Minimizing the problems caused by breakage at the user-end is an important part of web design IMO, and trying now certainly makes it easier to pick up and make use of new design tools as they become available to us. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Opera Targeting?!
Hello All, I am in the process of working on my portfolio. It is not complete yet, but one problem with my navigation menu on the top exists. Although it is a minor pixel alignment in Opera, I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why only Opera is aligning my tabs (which are the top part of my navigation) 1px above the bottom border. If my site is visited in Firefox or Internet Explorer first, you can see that everything aligns perfectly. Is there a way to target Opera specifically? I have used conditional comments, including !--[if IE]!-- to !--[if NN]!--. My site can be seen at http://ttcharriman.edu/TTCH07/iftprojects/brettpatterson/index.html Can anyone help, please? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!
There are patches for Internet Explorer, though Microsoft calls them several different things, it could be a Security Update for Internet Explorer, a Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer, or even a Security Update for Windows (maybe worded differently on the last one). They just update IE differently then all the other browsers update their own. Microsoft does not really use v3.0.8 like Firefox would, 9.26 like Opera would, etc. -- Brett P. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't understand what you mean, when you say: It's a designer-bug. Vertical position of the navigation relies entirely on font size, which means it is all over the place in my browsers on first load. No two browsers calculate font size exactly the same before rendering, so relying on pixel-perfect font size across browser-land is not a good idea. Add in font resizing and other regular options in browsers, and it gets a lot worse - for the whole layout. The problem should not rely on font size, but rather the margin from the top of the item that margin-top is being applied to, to the bottom of the item that is directly above the item that margin-top is being applied to, correct? I mean I do know that font size across browsers does not render the same, but if using pixels for a font size, should the pixels (in relation to size) render the same? I would think they would, but maybe I am wrong. You should rethink the positioning method, and forget about deviations between browsers until you have stabilized it in one. I do not understand this either, unless you are talking about using margin as the positioning method. I have stabilized it one browser. This is why I am worried about the deviations in all the others. FWIW: there are no reliable ways to target Opera anymore. You can't even know for sure if Opera is Opera. I do understand this. But I was hoping there was a way, like using JavaScript. I can understand if there is not one though. Besides: one should only target/hack dead browsers, like IE7 and older. Targeting/hacking live browsers like Opera, Firefox, Safari etc. for real, will only create maintenance-problems as new versions arrive. This is the most confusing part. IE7 is a live browser, if it is not then how can Opera, Firefox, Safari, etc., be? Every new version is then a stable version (dead version, though dead almost sounds as though you would mean like IE3 or Netscape 3). Or, are you saying that there will never be updates for IE7, though upon saying that, it would be incorrectly considered stable? -- Brett P. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote: David Dixon wrote: Chomping at the bit to dismiss IE7 a little early aren't we Georg? :) :-) Look at IE7 from a designer/developer's point of view... IE7 is dead - meaning: stable, so if it acts up and there isn't a suitable solution that all browsers can see, there's no harm whatsoever in hacking its dead body to pieces. IE7 can't come back to haunt us, no matter how many users it has. No other browser/version will ever see what we feed IE7 only - with the right targeting method, apart from maybe IE8 (and probably its successors if it gets any) when it mimics IE7 in (backwards) compatibility view. Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Besides: one should only target/hack dead browsers, like IE7 and older. Targeting/hacking live browsers like Opera, Firefox, Safari etc. for real, will only create maintenance-problems as new versions arrive. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!
Oh! I get it. Finally!!! :) It has always been my understanding, from some
books that I have read (like CIW's books, ciwcertified.com, which go into
some detail just not a lot) and a few others, that a pixel (in relation to
size, meaning if you looked at your screen closely the little squares on
your screen are natural pixels but the computer/browser/other settings can
change the default size) was only enlarged meaning that 1px would be one
pixel, but take up so many of the screen's natural pixels if the user
enlarged the screen.
But what you said makes more sense than that. Now I realize where most of my
problems have stemmed from.
--
Brett P.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
bhawkesle...@googlemail.com wrote:
On 3/2/09 20:13, Brett Patterson wrote:
I really don't understand what you mean, when you say:
It's a designer-bug. Vertical position of the navigation relies
entirely
on font size, which means it is all over the place in my browsers on
first load.
No two browsers calculate font size exactly the same before rendering,
so relying on pixel-perfect font size across browser-land is not a
good idea. Add in font resizing and other regular options in browsers,
and it gets a lot worse - for the whole layout.
The problem should not rely on font size, but rather the margin from the
top of the item that margin-top is being applied to, to the bottom of
the item that is directly above the item that margin-top is being
applied to, correct?
I think Gunlaug is referring to this (simplified):
div id=hdr
img alt=Text equivalent src=logo.gif /
div id=pageheader
Title here
div id=tabs
Tabs here
/div
/div
/div
#hdr {
border-bottom: 1px solid #CC9966;
height: 90px;
}
#pageheader {
float: left;
}
You've floated #pageheader out of the normal flow that determines the
height of #hdr, and there's nothing in place to force #hdr to contain the
lowest floated descendant. The logo image is in normal flow but it is 85px
tall, so what determines the height of #hdr is the height: 90px; setting.
Consequently, the alignment of the bottom of #tabs with the bottom border
#hdr depends on #pageheader actually being 90px tall. Since it's got text
inside it, and you can suggest but cannot expect a font height (and
therefore cannot even make a reliable prediction about how many lines a
given string will need), that dependency is brittle in the extreme. In
Firefox 3's Zoom submenu (under the View menu) try ticking Zoom Text Only
and then zooming in twice to watch it break horribly, with the title text
wrapping to the next line forcing the tabs entirely below the border.
For further reading see:
* http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#the-height-property
* http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#Computing_heights_and_margins
* http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59
I mean I do know that font size across browsers does not render the
same, but if using pixels for a font size, should the pixels (in
relation to size) render the same?
I'm not entirely sure I understand the question (in relation to size -
size of what?).
The size of a CSS pixel is intended to be relative to the resolution of the
viewport, and is ultimately up to the user agent:
Pixel units are relative to the resolution of the viewing device, i.e.,
most often a computer display. If the pixel density of the output device is
very different from that of a typical computer display, the user agent
should rescale pixel values. It is recommended that the reference pixel be
the visual angle of one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 96dpi and
a distance from the reader of an arm's length. For a nominal arm's length of
28 inches, the visual angle is therefore about 0.0213 degrees.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#length-units
Most desktop browsers make a CSS pixel a monitor pixel, however most
desktop browsers (Opera, IE7, IE8, Firefox 3) also include a zoom function
that changes the effective pixel size up or down. Note that some zoom
functions (Opera, IE8) include fit-to-width reflowing capabilities that mean
that there's no guarantee that a box width in px will remain proportional to
a font height specified in px.
Most desktop browsers (IE, Firefox, Safari) allow users to adjust the font
size up or down in steps. In IE's case, these adjustments do not affect font
sizes specified in pixels.
In addition, most desktop browsers (IE, Opera, Firefox, Safari) enforce
minimum font sizes in real pixels and allow users to change them, and allow
users to disregard publisher suggestions about font size and set enforce
their own preferences.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!
I really don't understand what you mean, when you say: It's a designer-bug. Vertical position of the navigation relies entirely on font size, which means it is all over the place in my browsers on first load. No two browsers calculate font size exactly the same before rendering, so relying on pixel-perfect font size across browser-land is not a good idea. Add in font resizing and other regular options in browsers, and it gets a lot worse - for the whole layout. The problem should not rely on font size, but rather the margin from the top of the item that margin-top is being applied to, to the bottom of the item that is directly above the item that margin-top is being applied to, correct? I mean I do know that font size across browsers does not render the same, but if using pixels for a font size, should the pixels (in relation to size) render the same? I would think they would, but maybe I am wrong. You should rethink the positioning method, and forget about deviations between browsers until you have stabilized it in one. I do not understand this either, unless you are talking about using margin as the positioning method. I have stabilized it one browser. This is why I am worried about the deviations in all the others. FWIW: there are no reliable ways to target Opera anymore. You can't even know for sure if Opera is Opera. I do understand this. But I was hoping there was a way, like using JavaScript. I can understand if there is not one though. Besides: one should only target/hack dead browsers, like IE7 and older. Targeting/hacking live browsers like Opera, Firefox, Safari etc. for real, will only create maintenance-problems as new versions arrive. This is the most confusing part. IE7 is a live browser, if it is not then how can Opera, Firefox, Safari, etc., be? Every new version is then a stable version (dead version, though dead almost sounds as though you would mean like IE3 or Netscape 3). Or, are you saying that there will never be updates for IE7, though upon saying that, it would be incorrectly considered stable? -- Brett P. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote: David Dixon wrote: Chomping at the bit to dismiss IE7 a little early aren't we Georg? :) :-) Look at IE7 from a designer/developer's point of view... IE7 is dead - meaning: stable, so if it acts up and there isn't a suitable solution that all browsers can see, there's no harm whatsoever in hacking its dead body to pieces. IE7 can't come back to haunt us, no matter how many users it has. No other browser/version will ever see what we feed IE7 only - with the right targeting method, apart from maybe IE8 (and probably its successors if it gets any) when it mimics IE7 in (backwards) compatibility view. Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Besides: one should only target/hack dead browsers, like IE7 and older. Targeting/hacking live browsers like Opera, Firefox, Safari etc. for real, will only create maintenance-problems as new versions arrive. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] HTML 5 and XHTML 2 combined
I would feel everyone in cooperation would be the way to go. Browser vendors (going to call them vendors, for short) need to understand that just because they want what they want does not matter as much as what is needed. If a major change is needed and vendors do not want to follow along, then so be it. If every vendor's ideas differed in some respect, then every browser would become an Internet Explorer -type browser. One that does not follow suit with the way things ought to be, in IE's case, is. It should be said to them that whole fact, to save everyone the headache of trying to design for every different browser and what that browser supports/does not support. Sorry, but it is a bit of a touchy subject, especially considering the amount of work that one has to put in with others to get *EVERY* browser to play with one good block of code. How do you imagine this could be reconciled? If you hijack HTML5 to effectively become XHTML2, browser vendors will just again come up with something different conforming to *their* goals. (HTML4.5 or whatever.) Their goals are not as important as what the whole idea of the Web is, and Tim Berners-Lee's/CERN's goals for the Web. Which is, as one major part (responsibility of advocates/vendors/anyone with any part of the Web), universal accessibility. When vendors design for their own goal(s), they are not living up to that responsibility; therefore, their points and concerns mean *NOTHING*, and can be dismissed without a split-second thought, when it comes to the working groups and what is deemed necessary to reach that goal of universal accessibility. And to Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis, to answer your earlier questions When you speak of browser vendors mixing old languages with the new, I'm not sure what you mean, or why it is a problem. The below also explains the above quote of your question. The problem is, that we need to drop what really is heavy and unnecessary luggage, (this luggage being what is not supported in XHTML 1.0 Transitional, at least by my view points). Rift-raft, as Philip said is, the baggage of earlier, arguably poorly thought out, standards. You mentioned creating Transitional and Strict document types, but it's unclear what user problems this would solve or how exactly it would help merge HTML5 and XHTML2. I meant this in the sense of the current X/HTML transitional and strict approaches, as in the reason they were developed rather than just a Strict or Transitional approach (not implementing both, in HTML and XHTML). It could help merge them and solve problems by identifying any conflicting parts of the Standards, any conflicts that you can see that might take place. Focus on the Code that goes into a web page first, you have a small portion of differences that can be resolved by dropping the luggage of earlier, poorly thought out standards. Why would combining HTML5 and XHTML2 would prevent browser developers inventing their own language features? This is best answered by reading the 3 previous posts from this one. What headache are you talking about? The headache stems from the different code necessary to force IE to play nicely and the different codes each browser has made especially for itself (understand the question above about inventing their own language features, where we completely ignore them). But, anyway, like I said, I read your links and can now agree with you. I was just trying to answer your previous questions, not stir up another argument. -- Brett P. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Molte molt...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed they should. The problem just might be, that if the browser vendors do not like the language they can simply just avoid supporting it (just like going on a strike). And then what idea is there of a standard that is not supported or used? It's just a question about who has the power to decide the future of the Web. The browser vendors? the coders/developers? us? or just everyone in cooperation? 2009/1/20 Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Okay, long time posted in this subject. I see where Benjamin is heading with his discussions, and I agree with him. Took me awhile to read and understand his links. But, Olaf, why are browser vendors allowed to choose what is right and wrong with HTML and XHTML, and coders are to play along, and the working groups that build upon HTML and XHTML (work with it, fix it, whatever) suppose to conform to browser vendor's goals? They should not be allowed to tell working groups what should and should not be allowed! It is not up to them. If it is, what is the purpose of the working groups? Are the working groups composed only of browser vendors, or both designers/coders and browser vendors? Vendors should be made to follow the standards and codes, and ideas and goals of the working group, should they not? -- Brett P. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:10 AM, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: Hi, On Fri, Jan 09, 2009
Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Okay, I understand. Thanks.
--
Brett P.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:46 AM, Simon Moss si...@simonmoss.co.uk wrote:
Isn't it because the img tag when within an anchor tag will by default show
a blue border around it - behaviour from the days before css? Separate
behaviour from the anchor tag itself - a special instance of the img tag
itself.
So if you're wondering why - well - because of history? (I never thought
working with the web would make me feel old... ;-) )
Simon M
The question, better explained is, using the above code, why do you have
to apply the CSS attribute, border: none;, to the image tag within the
anchor tag? Rather than using text-decoration: none;, to the anchor tag,
like you would use it to apply to an anchor tag with text in it to remove
the underline.
Observe...
a href=link.html style=text-decoration: none;text is now not
underlined/a
a href=link.htmltext is now underlined/a
As the anchor tag automatically applies the blue, underlined part of the
text, when surrounding an image tag it puts the underline on the image, but
in a blue border form around the image. Why use border: none; to the image
rather than text-decoration: none; to the anchor tag?
If you have a page that needs all the links to have no underline or
border (if an image is a link as well), why would want to have to have to
declarations for that, rather than one? You could have:
a
{
text-decoration: none;
}
a img
{
border: none;
}
but that takes a little more coding. Not that much more but still... you
could have just used the a { text-decoration: none; }.
--
Brett P.
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Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
The question, better explained is, using the above code, why do you have to
apply the CSS attribute, border: none;, to the image tag within the anchor
tag? Rather than using text-decoration: none;, to the anchor tag, like you
would use it to apply to an anchor tag with text in it to remove the
underline.
Observe...
a href=link.html style=text-decoration: none;text is now not
underlined/a
a href=link.htmltext is now underlined/a
As the anchor tag automatically applies the blue, underlined part of the
text, when surrounding an image tag it puts the underline on the image, but
in a blue border form around the image. Why use border: none; to the image
rather than text-decoration: none; to the anchor tag?
If you have a page that needs all the links to have no underline or border
(if an image is a link as well), why would want to have to have to
declarations for that, rather than one? You could have:
a
{
text-decoration: none;
}
a img
{
border: none;
}
but that takes a little more coding. Not that much more but still... you
could have just used the a { text-decoration: none; }.
--
Brett P.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Johan Douma johando...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure if I understand the question...
But it's actually easy to remove the borders from an image in an anchor tag
using css, not inline.
a img{
border:none;
}
When that's done, you can do whatever you want with the link or with the
image.
Johan Douma
johando...@gmail.com
2009/1/16 Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com
Okay. That makes sense.
--
Brett P.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.ukwrote:
Brett Patterson wrote:
So, my question is this. Why does the image tag have to have the border
placed on it, instead of placing the border or text-decoration styles
on
the anchor tag?
Consider the case:
a href=/ img src=/foo alt= Ipsum Ipsum /a
A border around the entire thing would give a very different effect to a
border around just the image.
There's no selector in CSS to select an element based on its descendants
either.
--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
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Re: [WSG] SEO and Flash
I concur with Benjamin. Try to use Flash only where it is needed. Many rich media sites such as Google's YouTube use Flash for rich media but rely on HTML for content and navigation. You can too, by limiting Flash to on-page accents and rich media, not content and navigation. In addition to making your site Googlebot-friendly, this makes you site accessible to a larger audience, including, for example, blind people using screen readers, users of old or non-standard browsers, and those on limited low-bandwidth connections such as on a cell phone or PDA. As a bonus, your visitors can use bookmarks effectively, and can email links to your pages to their friends. I agree, but as I have stated, the idea of accessible Flash is a good concept. Why are we arguing this point? To those that say Screen Readers cannot read Flash in anyway, have you actually used screen readers? Not just one or two, but 10 or more? I have; and I have found out that a good bit allow some Flash accessibility, such as videos and any accessible text. And yes, screen readers and SE spiders/crawlers read/index Flash differently, but screen readers can and some do allow an accessible Flash flv file to play. -- Brett P. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis bhawkesle...@googlemail.com wrote: On 15/1/09 06:59, Stuart Foulstone wrote: If the text in Flash is accessible SEs will index it. Search robots are in effect blind readers. If text in Flash is accessible, screen readers can read it. The mechanisms provided for search engines and screen readers to read Flash content are very different, not least because screen readers need to interact with Flash functionality not just read Flash content. However, sensible screen-reader users disable Flash. Not when they want to listen to videos and audio on the web, they don't. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform
I agree with Steve and Nancy. Have you tried to convert .mov into .mpeg, or similar? Try using sourceforge.net to locate some file format converters. And as far as embedding a movie or similar, have you searched alistapart.com ? And might I suggest http://www.delicious.com/irontombraider? I have a bunch of different links on there. -- Brett P. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Steve Green steve.gr...@labscape.co.ukwrote: I don't allow QuickTime to be installed on any of our machines either. Is there a reason why you can't use a file format that has a larger installed user base? Most non-Mac users won't have QuickTime. Steve -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Johnson Sent: 15 January 2009 18:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform Firefox 2 asked for quicktime plugins. My company won't allow you to install quicktime on their pcs. Nancy On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Ron Zisman ronzis...@mac.com wrote: anybody know of a solid way to embed quicktime movies cross-platform--in a standards sort of way. i've googled around and haven't found what i need. i'm told my current method hates IE. surprise. test page here: http://www.ricochet.org/test_flippin/georg_tampered.html thanks in advance --ron *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Okay. That makes sense. -- Brett P. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: Brett Patterson wrote: So, my question is this. Why does the image tag have to have the border placed on it, instead of placing the border or text-decoration styles on the anchor tag? Consider the case: a href=/ img src=/foo alt= Ipsum Ipsum /a A border around the entire thing would give a very different effect to a border around just the image. There's no selector in CSS to select an element based on its descendants either. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Hi all, I do not know if this has been asked before, and if it has I apologize for asking again, but consider the following code: a href=http://www.mozilla.org; class=small-namesimg src=images/mozillalogos/mozilla/mozillafoundation.png alt=Mozilla Foundation title=Mozilla Foundation style=border: none; //a Inside the img tag there is an inline style that declares that the image have no border. I used the inline style here, in this case, to show the example. It was my understanding that the anchor tag added the border to the image, mostly due to the underline added by using the anchor tag. So, my question is this. Why does the image tag have to have the border placed on it, instead of placing the border or text-decoration styles on the anchor tag? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
I hope I can throw my 2 cents in. Not trying to argue, but to TRY and answer some questions. A question was asked early in this thread about what are the benefits of using Flash? There's been no answer to that question. I was hoping to learn some answers because I've been confused about why it's become so widely used in eLearning. Okay, first this part of the answer. There are different types of ways that people learn. I suggest reading: http://www.worldwidelearn.com/education-articles/how-do-you-learn.htm or http://www.google.com/search?q=types+of+learningsourceid=navclient-ffie=UTF-8rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS301US303 the above is a quick search. But in other ways, there have been found different ways besides the three listed in the first link. Interaction. Here is an interaction information link, it is in pdf: http://www.sloan-c.org/publications/books/interactions.pdf and to search: http://www.google.com/search?q=interaction+learningsourceid=navclient-ffie=UTF-8rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS301US303 there are a lot of other different, informative links on that search. Interaction is one the greatest styles of learning there is, in my opinion (don't jump at that, because it is just my opinion, although I must stress that my opinion mainly depends on the subject being taught). Flash can help tremendously with interaction, although that is not the only way. An excellently developed Flash eLearning solution will add a lot of different types of learning solutions to it. Most do. In an excellently developed site, you will have links to different portions of the file, where one may be to read what needs to be read, one may have one spoken to you, and another may ask for questions and answers. Others, may things where you need to drag objects to stage or link one side (which may contain a list of words) to the other (the definitions of those words) (you click the word, then click the definition to check answer). And yet, even more others, will contain videos that someone can watch to see something being done, if they are a visual learner. In these regards, Flash can offer many different advantages to ALL different styles of learning. But, like the arguments posted, there is the question of Accessibility. There is no reason that flash cannot be used on a site. Some have stated that a little can add depth to a site. Well, my question to those statements, how are you saying your site is accessible if you do not have an accessible Flash file on it? You cannot, unless you say it is accessible on only the main parts of the site. But, that would leave a large part of the disabled out if they cannot see what is happening. Flash is a way to do learning online, just like the combination of HTML/CSS/JS/AJAX, etc. And if instructors do want to use Flash for whatever reason, then by all means, make accessible Flash. You cannot change all the teachers in the world, it is impossible, and Flash is here to stay. Um, I hope that explains it, I noticed when rereading it might not fully explain, if it doesn't let me know. BCAT's developers have a serious nerve asking the WSG community to provide feedback on a site they've built, but then require that a) people compromise their freedom by signing an NDA to even view the site, and then add insult to injury by b) making the terms of the NDA available only in a non-standard, proprietary MS Word DOC format. On the first part I disagree, they do not. But on the last part, I would have to agree (the b) part). But, again but, people do not compromise freedom by being asked to sign an NDA. That is an argument either way understandably. I can agree that you shouldn't be asked to sign an NDA, but on the other hand, I can agree that you should. I can agree in the since that they are protecting their site from being compromised, meaning they do not want word to slip out on what is being developed yet, since it may or may not be completed. On the other hand, I cannot agree with that NDA, because of the b) part, and the fact that you are being asked to look at it, and it is a waste of time having to read it, agree to it, and then get to the point of the matter. Both arguments listed. Simon said, (not trying to get hateful) and I quote: Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. It's not uncommon that many secondary and tertiary IT and web media courses are grossly outdated. From my experience this is mostly attributed to the teacher's education in the field which they received when they did their tertiary education in order to teach, and have since not remained up to date with new developments and sadly even standards. Money and a requirement to regularly attend courses to keep educators up to date help in this regard but nothing beats personal interest—the high school IT teacher that in their own time is actively involved in his or her field will be more likely to teach his students about the latest relevant and
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
THANK YOU!!! I could not agree with you more. And in the same since, I think we agree with each other. Congratulations on an argument well-played. And well-thought!!! -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:05 AM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.comwrote: Hi WSG, This entire argument is getting a bit much. Nothing on the web is in and of itself particularly accessible. Accessibility in HTML is a joke unless you have been taught the right practices. Flash was, is, and will continue to be, primarily, a tool for delivery of rich, interactive media. To that end accessibility in flash is almost a moot point, as you're never going to be able to enable a blind person to watch a video. If the issue is text, you shouldn't be using Flash, and if you are you should be implementing it in a manner that allows for graceful degradation. I know I'm glossing the issue, but bear with me. Plenty of teachers, trainers, training providers, universities, TAFEs, schools, HR areas, etc are essentially lazy and can't be bothered to actually understand learning theory. This is why they 'continue to be committed to linear, push methodologies', it's easy to understand and cheep to develop. Vendor just give the market what they want. TAFEs and other para-tertiary institutions do this because that is what they are there to do. Their purpose is to give students the skills necessary to get a job and then self-perpetuate their skills. My experience of universities is that they don't do this at all. Even the less technical I.T. degrees will throw a smorgasbord of programming languages (no one goes to university to write HTML) and development methodologies at you and let you figure out which one works best for you. The result of being a good programmer is that it becomes easy to pick up ActionScript and use it well. Virtually no one writes good ActionScript. I've never taught flash to a class, so I won't speculate on its usefulness. It is in my opinion something that should be taught to I.T. students because of the ubiquity of Flash on the web. I think the argument against Flash in eLearning is flawed. It sounds more like an argument of how Flash is being used in eLearning. The issue doesn't lie with Flash itself, but with how eLearning software producers are using it. Teacher/trainer decision makers don't love the web, possibly because they can't control it. This is mostly untrue, teachers do love the web. Occasionally you will find a teacher whose methods are out of date, but most commonly the issues lie with course curricula. I have hope that the tide is turning. Teachers/trainers have experienced the difficulties in creating and maintaining their content in Flash (just try changing one image used in multiple Flash files and the difficulties become clear) Again, this boils down to being a bad Flash developer. It took me a few seconds to think of a way to modify an image in multiple Flash files at once (without interrupting their availability to users either). the web generation is beginning to pierce/influence decision making levels, students/employees that love the web push to learn from formal resources the way they informally learn from the web, plus content changes in ever decreasing time cycles which leaves little time to build and rebuild Flash delivered content. I am a student. Formal resources are about the best damn thing that university has provided me. Unfortunately it's (arguably) not fun or cool to read a programming book cover to cover, so I can see why people complain. Stop using the term 'love the web'. Lots of people love the web, I'm sure, but it doesn't mean they have the first clue what's good for it. The few times I have seen Flash used well and written well it's beautiful. It's amazing. It's like having sunshine flowing through your vains. So, do you blame HTML for every poorly coded website? Do you blame Flash for every bad use of Flash? Anyway, it seems like this entire argument would be better stated as People who hate Flash because it doesn't behave in a manner identical to HTML, and also because it isn't HTML. - James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
Christie, your argument is about the most ridiculous argument there is. Everything you have stated is SOLELY about you and your personal preferences. Observe: I'm not a highly visual person, I even prefer reading data to being given a graph. So what? *NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT YOU!!!* Your personal preference is irrelevant, as well as mine. Other people may not like reading. They may be more visual. Focus on everyone, not yourself, and you CANNOT design a web page if you only focus on yourself and how you may view and read it. It can't happen. Unless you want people to view only how you viewed it when designing. You also state: Hassan, I also have a theory that I'd like to test with you. Do you use Macs as your primary computer or PC? I think the very visual are drawn towards using Macs and Flash. I don't think it's about me :-) True, Hassan, it's not about you. Christie, do you think Macs are not PC's? Because they are. And PC's (Personal Computers, that is what a PC stands for) is too broad a subject. Clarify!!! Since you like to read, here is this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer it shows the definition and what is included in the subject. Such as Macs and Windows and Linux-based OS are PC's. Again using the quote above, you are also Stereotyping. Not all people are drawn towards Macs and Flash. Some maybe drawn to Linux, Ubuntu, Windows, etc. -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Hassan Schroeder has...@webtuitive.comwrote: Christie Mason wrote: CM - I wasn't talking about Flex. I was referring to Flash. I can see that I wasn't clear when I changed thoughts. And again, missing the point: Flash is a *platform* with which you can do a variety of things. It's not 1998 any more, and Flash is only about Dancing Hampsters(sic) if *you* want it to be. CM - Instead of humphing at me, educate me and by extension everyone else. What does Flex do better, faster, cheaper than a text based database with links to graphics, video/Flash, etc It's *integrated* with the video, graphics, sound. Let's say you're teaching bicycle mechanics, and you have a video that demonstrates replacing a cog in a cassette. As the component is disassembled, you want to show the name and details of each piece as text to one side, and maybe warnings/cautions on the other, with a static exploded view of the assembly above where each component is highlighted as it's being removed in the video. You might be able to do that with the JavaScript-ActionScript bridge and plain HTML but I guarantee it would be a /lot/ clumsier. :-) Plus, I'd be curious as to availability of the Flex server in remote hosts. I haven't seen any offer it, is it still so pricey(?) No idea, check with Adobe. My last Flex project was a couple years ago, and I'm pretty sure they've changed the licensing since then. And there's also OpenLaszlo, of course. Hassan, I also have a theory that I'd like to test with you. Do you use Macs as your primary computer or PC? I think the very visual are drawn towards using Macs and Flash. I don't think it's about me :-) The point is using the proper tool for the job, and any application with multimedia aspects is a candidate for a Flash-based solution. I'm not a highly visual person, I even prefer reading data to being given a graph. I spend most of my time in a text editor or bash, regardless of what platform I'm using. But that's probably not germane to this discussion, either. I don't see the value of most rich interface methods because it's been my experience than when people start focusing on making the interface/content flash around How about focusing on using multimedia to add value, to create a more effective learning experience, as I hopefully demonstrated above? FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
The below was to James Ducker. -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: THANK YOU!!! I could not agree with you more. And in the same since, I think we agree with each other. Congratulations on an argument well-played. And well-thought!!! -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:05 AM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.comwrote: Hi WSG, This entire argument is getting a bit much. Nothing on the web is in and of itself particularly accessible. Accessibility in HTML is a joke unless you have been taught the right practices. Flash was, is, and will continue to be, primarily, a tool for delivery of rich, interactive media. To that end accessibility in flash is almost a moot point, as you're never going to be able to enable a blind person to watch a video. If the issue is text, you shouldn't be using Flash, and if you are you should be implementing it in a manner that allows for graceful degradation. I know I'm glossing the issue, but bear with me. Plenty of teachers, trainers, training providers, universities, TAFEs, schools, HR areas, etc are essentially lazy and can't be bothered to actually understand learning theory. This is why they 'continue to be committed to linear, push methodologies', it's easy to understand and cheep to develop. Vendor just give the market what they want. TAFEs and other para-tertiary institutions do this because that is what they are there to do. Their purpose is to give students the skills necessary to get a job and then self-perpetuate their skills. My experience of universities is that they don't do this at all. Even the less technical I.T. degrees will throw a smorgasbord of programming languages (no one goes to university to write HTML) and development methodologies at you and let you figure out which one works best for you. The result of being a good programmer is that it becomes easy to pick up ActionScript and use it well. Virtually no one writes good ActionScript. I've never taught flash to a class, so I won't speculate on its usefulness. It is in my opinion something that should be taught to I.T. students because of the ubiquity of Flash on the web. I think the argument against Flash in eLearning is flawed. It sounds more like an argument of how Flash is being used in eLearning. The issue doesn't lie with Flash itself, but with how eLearning software producers are using it. Teacher/trainer decision makers don't love the web, possibly because they can't control it. This is mostly untrue, teachers do love the web. Occasionally you will find a teacher whose methods are out of date, but most commonly the issues lie with course curricula. I have hope that the tide is turning. Teachers/trainers have experienced the difficulties in creating and maintaining their content in Flash (just try changing one image used in multiple Flash files and the difficulties become clear) Again, this boils down to being a bad Flash developer. It took me a few seconds to think of a way to modify an image in multiple Flash files at once (without interrupting their availability to users either). the web generation is beginning to pierce/influence decision making levels, students/employees that love the web push to learn from formal resources the way they informally learn from the web, plus content changes in ever decreasing time cycles which leaves little time to build and rebuild Flash delivered content. I am a student. Formal resources are about the best damn thing that university has provided me. Unfortunately it's (arguably) not fun or cool to read a programming book cover to cover, so I can see why people complain. Stop using the term 'love the web'. Lots of people love the web, I'm sure, but it doesn't mean they have the first clue what's good for it. The few times I have seen Flash used well and written well it's beautiful. It's amazing. It's like having sunshine flowing through your vains. So, do you blame HTML for every poorly coded website? Do you blame Flash for every bad use of Flash? Anyway, it seems like this entire argument would be better stated as People who hate Flash because it doesn't behave in a manner identical to HTML, and also because it isn't HTML. - James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
Pardon the language, but Hell no. For a number of different reasons. Among that being, I can't work with the code as good as I can with Microsoft's and the fact that it costs too much money. Although it is proprietary, I can recode most of what I need to do (Microsoft's code). To say I disagree with you, or anyone else for that matter, about Flash not being used by people properly, would be a lie. Even being used on the Web itself, I would say that is a lie if I disagree. But, I must at least agree with the people who are trying to make it accessible. It doesn't matter what we think about it, it's going to be there regardless, so instead we need to work on accessibility of ALL things that go on the Web. Having looked at the solution by BCAT, or whatever it's called, I have noticed some major improvements, and most importantly, that it cannot only be applied to eLearning, but other ways of Flash uses as well. This is why I promote it, now. And I must say that all teachers/educators, whatever word you wish to use, do recognize different ways to show content off. Even I know different ways. Everyone that does use Flash for eLearning, offers different ways to learn it. But again, like I said, not my opinion about using it that matters, nor anyone else's. What does matter though, is this, (again to reiterate) it will be there no matter what, whether we like it or not, so let's work on the making it accessible together, get it done and be done with it. True to anyone that says it should be Adobe's problem to fix. I agree. But they are lazy, so it is up to other people to fix their problem. Okay, so I really don't want to have to fix it, you don't want to fix it, we don't want to fix it, but BCAT is stepping up and taking charge and fixing it. Let's support them, and hope it works. As long as they don't charge. Then it becomes a-whole-nother story. But beyond that, more power to them. Christie, we are both Constructionists in the term you defined. But I am also a Visionary. Plus, I try to help make Tim Berners-Lee's goals possible. Those that argue the point it should not be made accessible and not put on the web are saying they don't care about his vision of the WWW. Why do I say they don't care? Because it's one of either two things, with no other possibility. These two choices are either: 1) You don't care about Mr. Berners-Lee's vision or the WWW, for that matter. or 2) Your ignorant, because you have accepted or don't know that Flash is here to stay. -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Christie Mason cma...@managersforum.comwrote: Brett you are correct, This is a personal theory based on some personal observations. Do you use a Mac as your primary development computer? Christie Mason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
Forgot to mention several other things, Christie. 1. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, I am still laughing at that. CM - Interaction is more than clicking on a link or moving things around on a screen. Those links are easier to develop and manage with HTML, plus there's still the additional cost of developing/maintaining Flash plus addt'l costs to make it as accessible as text/graphics. Yes, Flash can be used but it should never be the only tool that's used. If a concept can ONLY be understood if the learner HAS to SEE it in action then even adding all the accessibility add ons to Flash won't help. In addition, I've found that need to be rare and certainly no reason to justify putting all content into Flash. Sorry I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Those links are not like using the a tag. They are like lines drawn on a map. Linking (drawing a line) from one side to the other (one word to its definition), a line, if you have ever done it, like connect-the-dots. To the question about this conversation being done in Flash, it very well could have. With some minor changes, we could have talked with video conferencing. Kinda hard to do, but it can be done. -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: Pardon the language, but Hell no. For a number of different reasons. Among that being, I can't work with the code as good as I can with Microsoft's and the fact that it costs too much money. Although it is proprietary, I can recode most of what I need to do (Microsoft's code). To say I disagree with you, or anyone else for that matter, about Flash not being used by people properly, would be a lie. Even being used on the Web itself, I would say that is a lie if I disagree. But, I must at least agree with the people who are trying to make it accessible. It doesn't matter what we think about it, it's going to be there regardless, so instead we need to work on accessibility of ALL things that go on the Web. Having looked at the solution by BCAT, or whatever it's called, I have noticed some major improvements, and most importantly, that it cannot only be applied to eLearning, but other ways of Flash uses as well. This is why I promote it, now. And I must say that all teachers/educators, whatever word you wish to use, do recognize different ways to show content off. Even I know different ways. Everyone that does use Flash for eLearning, offers different ways to learn it. But again, like I said, not my opinion about using it that matters, nor anyone else's. What does matter though, is this, (again to reiterate) it will be there no matter what, whether we like it or not, so let's work on the making it accessible together, get it done and be done with it. True to anyone that says it should be Adobe's problem to fix. I agree. But they are lazy, so it is up to other people to fix their problem. Okay, so I really don't want to have to fix it, you don't want to fix it, we don't want to fix it, but BCAT is stepping up and taking charge and fixing it. Let's support them, and hope it works. As long as they don't charge. Then it becomes a-whole-nother story. But beyond that, more power to them. Christie, we are both Constructionists in the term you defined. But I am also a Visionary. Plus, I try to help make Tim Berners-Lee's goals possible. Those that argue the point it should not be made accessible and not put on the web are saying they don't care about his vision of the WWW. Why do I say they don't care? Because it's one of either two things, with no other possibility. These two choices are either: 1) You don't care about Mr. Berners-Lee's vision or the WWW, for that matter. or 2) Your ignorant, because you have accepted or don't know that Flash is here to stay. -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Christie Mason cma...@managersforum.comwrote: Brett you are correct, This is a personal theory based on some personal observations. Do you use a Mac as your primary development computer? Christie Mason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
And we do agree. But again, NOT THE POINT, although it may be wrong, it may need to be designed accessible in the first place, it hasn't, so don't argue the point. End it at the fact that something needs to be done and people are ignorant. BCAT is doing what people should be doing, fixing things that are inaccessible, NO MATTER WHAT! -- Brett P. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Christie Mason cma...@managersforum.comwrote: Well there goes that theory. My thoughts were something like graphically oriented people are attracted to using Macs and Flash. BCAT's attempting to make Flash accessible is good but if the content hadn't been made inaccessible in the first place, then it wouldn't be needed. Yes, Flash can be used appropriately to give rich depth to a concept, but it's still primarily used in the eLearning world (including both corporate trainers and educators) to port PPT to Flash and that's just wrong. Christie Mason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images
Recently, I experimented with changing check boxes with JavaScript. If the user clicked on the words next to the check box, then the box would be checked, once checked if the user clicked again, then the box would be unchecked. I wound up having to apply the same code to the check box itself in order to get it to work. In addition, I added code that would change the background image of the page to either a solid color, if checked, or back to the original image, if unchecked. It did not work. So after changing it some more and still getting no results (I think I even asked here), I did some research and found another way to link images directly in JavaScript. I should make note that all the code was in an external file at the time. The following is the structure of the site: -container (the name of the containing folder for all files) || --index.html (home page where the code will be used) --scripts (the scripts folder, contains all the scripts) | ---scripts.js (the scripts file itself) ^^ --styles (stylesheets folder located directly within the container folder) || ---styles.css (contains style declarations) ^^ --images (located directly within the container folder) | ---linkedimage.png (the image to be changed in page background) I hope the structure above makes sense. Anyway, while linking the image in the scripts.js file, I found it never switched back, yet the code never showed any problems. When I found the other way to link images directly in JavaScript, I changed the image link code to what would amount to being directly in the HTML file itself: The first is the original way I linked it the second is the new way. - (../images/linkedimage.png); - from above, changed to - (images/linkedimage.png); After the change above, the code worked. I went back to reading about the JavaScript standard, I thought that JavaScript was read like an external CSS file was read, where you would have to use the (../) part to link to the image if it was in a different folder one level above the current folder. (as the first line of code above is.) Is that not how JavaScript works? When it comes to linked images? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images
:) I like the disclaimer. Thanks to both of you, that does explain it. By the way, I am not a JS nut. :) I am new. -- Brett P. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Tatham Oddie tat...@oddie.com.au wrote: Brett, CSS is defining the image links, so the paths are relative to the CSS file itself. JavaScript is a bit different. It is basically just setting properties on the HTML elements and this is no different to setting those properties yourself. As such, any image references are relative to the HTML page and *not* the JS file. Does that help? (Disclaimer: I know this isn't the 100% perfect explanation of DHTML but it serves the purpose of answering this question. If you're a JS nut, please don't pounce.) Thanks, Tatham Oddie call:+61414275989 callto:+61414275989, call:+61280113982callto:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie, msn:tat...@oddie.com.au, tatham.oddie.com.au *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Brett Patterson *Sent:* Wednesday, 7 January 2009 12:08 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images Recently, I experimented with changing check boxes with JavaScript. If the user clicked on the words next to the check box, then the box would be checked, once checked if the user clicked again, then the box would be unchecked. I wound up having to apply the same code to the check box itself in order to get it to work. In addition, I added code that would change the background image of the page to either a solid color, if checked, or back to the original image, if unchecked. It did not work. So after changing it some more and still getting no results (I think I even asked here), I did some research and found another way to link images directly in JavaScript. I should make note that all the code was in an external file at the time. The following is the structure of the site: -container (the name of the containing folder for all files) || --index.html (home page where the code will be used) --scripts (the scripts folder, contains all the scripts) | ---scripts.js (the scripts file itself) ^^ --styles (stylesheets folder located directly within the container folder) || ---styles.css (contains style declarations) ^^ --images (located directly within the container folder) | ---linkedimage.png (the image to be changed in page background) I hope the structure above makes sense. Anyway, while linking the image in the scripts.js file, I found it never switched back, yet the code never showed any problems. When I found the other way to link images directly in JavaScript, I changed the image link code to what would amount to being directly in the HTML file itself: The first is the original way I linked it the second is the new way. - (../images/linkedimage.png); - from above, changed to - (images/linkedimage.png); After the change above, the code worked. I went back to reading about the JavaScript standard, I thought that JavaScript was read like an external CSS file was read, where you would have to use the (../) part to link to the image if it was in a different folder one level above the current folder. (as the first line of code above is.) Is that not how JavaScript works? When it comes to linked images? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
To All,
I was playing around with a page where I found out that just about
everything that I wanted to do I had to use:
function namedFunction(layer)
{
var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
* // other code here.*
}
And I got really annoyed at having to either copy and paste or retype the
getElementById(layer) part. So I thought about a way to not have to retype
it (and make it cross-browser compatible) and to assign it a variable that I
could use over and over again. I used the below:
var identifier = document.getElementById(layer);
function namedFunction()
{
var whatever = identifier;
*// other code here.*
}
In the html part:
a onhover=namedFunction('timer')img src=ex.jpg alt=ex //a
where when you hovered over the image it dropped down a menu. Would this be
acceptable and cross-browser compatible code?
--
Brett P.
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Re: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
Hi Steve,
How could another method change the element the identifier variable is
pointing at? I thought that that could only occur if I changed the id
attribute or the variable itself, or the argument (here
namedFunction('timer')) where timer is the argument?
Hi Chris,
Is not acceptable to put event handlers like onhover and onclick in an HTML
page? Sorry, but I am still learning JavaScript.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hi Brett,
The problem isn't this:
var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
I's this:
onhover=namedFunction('timer')
What you're doing is mixing JavaScript in the HTML of the page. What you
should do is use a listener on your link to see when it is hovered over.
This code uses the prototype library [1] but you can do the same thing with
other libraries such as jQuery and mootools. I recommend you take a look at
one of those libraries to help you with this stuff. (Warning: I've not
tested this code!)
In the head of your page:
script type=text/javascript
// listen for the page being loaded completely
Event.observe(window, 'load', HoverListener, false);
function HoverListener()
{
// for each link with the class 'hover'
$$('a.hover').each(function(element)
{
// listen for the 'mouseover' event on this link and execute
the 'RunCode' function when it happens
Event.observe(element, 'mouseover', RunCode, false);
// also listen for the 'focus' event on this link for
keyboard-compatibility
Event.observe(element, 'focus', RunCode, false);
});
}
function RunCode(e)
{
// get the element which triggered the event
var el = Event.findElement(e, 'A');
// now do your code! In this example I'm just alert()ing the text in
the link
alert(el.innerHTML);
}
/script
You can apply the class hover to any link, it will execute the RunCode
function above when that link is hovered over (or receives focus from a
keyboard action):
a href=somepage.html class=hoverHover over this link.../a
Hope this helps,
Chris
[1] http://prototypejs.org
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Re: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
Thank you all!! After playing around with it some more, and practicing some
suggestions, I forgot how I got it to work in the first place =( !!! But, I
do understand now, what was said. Too many things can go wrong. So, thanks.
And thanks for the links Chris.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Brett Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To All,
I was playing around with a page where I found out that just about
everything that I wanted to do I had to use:
function namedFunction(layer)
{
var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
// other code here.
}
And I got really annoyed at having to either copy and paste or retype the
getElementById(layer) part. So I thought about a way to not have to
retype
it (and make it cross-browser compatible) and to assign it a variable
that I
could use over and over again.
Just about ever Javascript framework does something similar to:
function $(id) {
return document.getElementById(id);
}
So then you can just do:
$('header');
But if you really want cross-browser compatibility and also
ease-of-use, I would suggest combining unobtrusive practices with a
decent JS framework. There's a lot of gotchas out there.
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net
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[WSG] Streamline a video question
I am trying to put a video on the Web, but I cannot get it to play automatically. I want to have them stream so that they will play immediately instead of lagging a minute or so when clicked on. Is there a standard/recommended way to do this? Links for reading about it would be greatly appreciated. -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] inline-block effect
It is. At least as far as I knew it to be. This is why I said to use the span tag. On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Am I confused? I thought h2 was a block-level element. On Mon, December 1, 2008 6:32 pm, Andrew famiano wrote: I'm trying to set a background color on a h2. I want the background to be the same width as the header. Since inline-block isn't supported by all browsers, is there another trick in doing this? Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] inline-block effect
As well as from mine. Did any of the above solve your problem? And what does OP mean? On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect that the OP miss-stated the problem. From my understanding, he wants the BGcolor to extend for _only_ the width of the TEXT, not for the entire width of the element. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Tue 12/2/2008 6:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] inline-block effect Am I confused? I thought h2 was a block-level element. On Mon, December 1, 2008 6:32 pm, Andrew famiano wrote: I'm trying to set a background color on a h2. I want the background to be the same width as the header. Since inline-block isn't supported by all browsers, is there another trick in doing this? Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] inline-block effect
or you could just do h2span class=helloYour Header Text
Here/span/h2.
And in your CSS, .hello {background-color: color;}
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Сергей Кириченко [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
1. float:left
2. position:absolute
3.insert span with bg into H2
and non standart trick
inline-block for all and {display:inline; zoom:1}for lte IE 7
Andrew famiano пишет:
I'm trying to set a background color on a h2. I want the background to
be the same width as the header. Since inline-block isn't supported by all
browsers, is there another trick in doing this?
Thanks
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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
What Dave?
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Dave Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 10:18 +, David Dorward wrote:
Brett Patterson wrote:
Where could I find a good information site about the
document.images.imageId script line, please?
http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-DOM-Level-1-19981001/level-one-html.html#ID-26809268
And if you are trying to code using codes such as
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217502
Just an example. A quick search to find.
A quick search can also find out how to use blink tags and tables for
layout. That is a good example of worst practises.
Yes we all know that you should always use
!-- ... --
head
style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
/style
!-- ... --
/head
body
!-- ... --
span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
!-- ... --
/body
instead of
!-- ... --
blinkmy blinking test/blink
!-- ... --
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.
From what I have read so far, you are pretty much agreeing with me. Hence, David, you said and I quote, HTML 5 is Everything you need to know to build a browser with some definition of HTML, XHTML, DOM, SQL and HTTP in it., therefore, HTML5 (not to be confused with xHTML or XHTML), is being phased out. It would have to be, especially considering the previous statement. If they are including some definition of HTML with XHTML, then they are trying to get HTML designers used to using the simplistical form of XHTML in XML syntax/serialisation/yada yada yada whatever, correct? SQL is a database manipulation language is it not? Like XML? So, all in all, HTML developers will move more into what the purpose of XHTML is, correct? And it would have to unify the schism if it is to include all of the above stated, is that not right? Because everything that has been said seems to agree with I originally stated and questioned. How does it not? On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:12 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps I have missed something important: are we saying that HTML5 is essentially two different languages? HTML5 is Everything you need to know to build a browser with some definition of HTML, XHTML, DOM, SQL and HTTP in it. I thought that it was supposed to unify the schism between HTML and XHTML. It certainly doesn't do that. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.
Sorry, forgot to add, that the purpose of XHTML, from what some of the top designers and working group members have stated, I may have misinterpreted, but XHTML was built to help designers/developers transition from HTML to XML. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Brett Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From what I have read so far, you are pretty much agreeing with me. Hence, David, you said and I quote, HTML 5 is Everything you need to know to build a browser with some definition of HTML, XHTML, DOM, SQL and HTTP in it., therefore, HTML5 (not to be confused with xHTML or XHTML), is being phased out. It would have to be, especially considering the previous statement. If they are including some definition of HTML with XHTML, then they are trying to get HTML designers used to using the simplistical form of XHTML in XML syntax/serialisation/yada yada yada whatever, correct? SQL is a database manipulation language is it not? Like XML? So, all in all, HTML developers will move more into what the purpose of XHTML is, correct? And it would have to unify the schism if it is to include all of the above stated, is that not right? Because everything that has been said seems to agree with I originally stated and questioned. How does it not? On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:12 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps I have missed something important: are we saying that HTML5 is essentially two different languages? HTML5 is Everything you need to know to build a browser with some definition of HTML, XHTML, DOM, SQL and HTTP in it. I thought that it was supposed to unify the schism between HTML and XHTML. It certainly doesn't do that. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
So I thought. But why, when using JavaScript can you not target the ID of an element such as an image? You can target the name, but not the ID, not without document.getElementById-blah blah blah, so how can it duplicate it? It seems then, that is does not. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:32 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brett Patterson wrote: I don't why, but XHTML (I am using Strict 1.0 in the below examples), has deprecated the use of the name attribute. That being said, my question is, Why was the name attribute deprecated?. Because (on the elements upon which it was deprecated) it did nothing except duplicate the functionality of the id attribute. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
1) That, I do believe is a crock of shit!2) If he does anything like that, he will be dead!!! --and-- 3) Anyone who believes in those ideas are fucked up, stupid, and this I can promise, will NOT make it in this world, dead or alive! 4) Like I said, I think this a crock of shit, and possibly spam. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:56 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Usually I'm suspicious of this stuff but I happen to know that Get Up is legit and thought the Aussie members of this list might like to know about this. IceKat. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Thought you might be interested Love Mum - Original Message - *From:* GetUp [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:17 PM *Subject:* The Great Firewall of Australia http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 Dear Helen, Imagine a government proposing an internet censorship system that went further than any other democracy - one that made the internet up to 87% slower, more expensive, accidentally blocked up to one in 12 legitimate sites, and missed the vast majority of inappropriate content. This is not China, Saudi Arabia or Iran - this is the vision of Senator Stephen Conroy for Australia. *Testing has already begun.* The community must now move to stop this plan. *Click here to save the net:* *www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet*http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 The system that Senator Conroy wants is *a mandatory filter of all internet traffic*, with the government of the day able to add any unwanted site to a secret blacklist. Already, the wrangling has begun for the inclusion of material relating to anorexia, euthanasia and gambling. It isn't difficult to see *the scheme is open to abuse*. Even when it comes to preventing child p-rnography, the filter will not prevent peer-to-peer sharing and is very simple to sidestep. *The protection of our children is vitally important* - that's why we can't afford to waste funds on this deeply flawed system. We should be concentrating on solutions that are more effective and won't undermine our digital economy or our democratic freedoms. This must rank as one of the most ill-thought decisions of the Rudd Government's first year in power. We need to act now to *tell big brother the mandatory internet filter is incompatible with the principles of a modern democracy and modern economy*: *www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet*http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 Our government should be doing all in its power to take Australia into the 21st century economy, and to protect our children. *This proposed internet censorship does neither.* Take action to save the net today. Thanks for being a part of the solution, The GetUp team PS - The proposed scheme will pass all internet traffic through a government filter - it's like asking Australia Post to filter every letter sent in Australia. *Click here to save the net.*http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 __ GetUp is an independent, not-for-profit community campaigning group. We use new technology to empower Australians to have their say on important national issues. We receive no political party or government funding, and every campaign we run is entirely supported by voluntary donations. If you'd like to contribute to *help fund GetUp's work*, please *donate now!https://www.getup.org.au/donate/?dc=564,324731,1 * If you have trouble with any links in this email, please go directly to www.getup.org.au http://www.getup.org.au?dc=564,324731,1. To unsubscribe from GetUp, please click herehttp://www.getup.org.au/pages/emailunsub?dc=564,324731,1 . Authorised by Simon Sheikh, Level 2, 294 Pitt St, Sydney NSW 2000[image: tracking] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1812 - Release Date: 11/25/2008 7:53 PM -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
Where could I find a good information site about the document.images.imageId script line, please? And if you are trying to code using codes such as http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217502 Just an example. A quick search to find. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:52 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brett Patterson wrote: So I thought. But why, when using JavaScript can you not target the ID of an element such as an image? You can. You can target the name, but not the ID, Incorrect. not without document.getElementById Why would you want to do it without document.getElementById? Even if you did, document.images.imageId works fine (at least in the quick test I performed). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
No, I may have to disagree. GIF files are (a majority of them, if not all, are) smaller. They have to be. Considering GIF only supports up to a maximum of 256 colors. (it is 8-bit). Try http://www.sitepoint.com/article/gif-jpg-png-whats-difference/ ---or--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Interchange_Format You should never have to use a pngGauntlet-type compressor. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: While I cannot help with the spacing issue I do strongly suggest using png rather than gif. File size is smaller especially when run through pngGauntlet. Mike Foskett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee Sent: 25 November 2008 10:48 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared On Nov 24, 2008, at 3:24 AM, Robert O'Rourke wrote: If I remember rightly if you are able to save the image with a transparent background it keeps the file size lower because a transparent pixel takes less space than a pixel with colour information. You can put a coloured outline around the sprites themselves to avoid jagged edges in IE. Thanks all for the tips. The htacces ones is especially useful :-) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ---Warning This e-mail is from outside Tesco - check that it is genuine. Tesco may monitor and record all e-mails. Disclaimer This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Which is read first? Scripts or Styles?
Ooh! Thanks for the link. Valuable reading. I do not, however, understand the ETags. So, I guess I must do a lot more research. Thanks. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I'd add a furtherance to Steve Sounders / Yahoo's recommendations and use the @import method for style sheets and not link. Mike Foskett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hall Sent: 24 November 2008 21:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Which is read first? Scripts or Styles? On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 10:24 -0500, Brett Patterson wrote: I have no idea why, but for some reason I cannot remember which is read first! Are scripts or styles read first? As others have mentioned, they are read in the order they occur in the document. And which is the recommended order to list them? Styles or Scripts first? Yahoo's performance best practice guide recommends styles in the head and scripts as the last thing before the /body in a document. See http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#css_top for more info. Cheers Dave *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ---Warning This e-mail is from outside Tesco - check that it is genuine. Tesco may monitor and record all e-mails. Disclaimer This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
First of all, No I am not! Second I have tried out differences. Notice the difference in file sizes. Thirdly, I did not say that png did not support 8-bit, nowhere does it say that, it does however say that GIF only supports a maximum of 256 colors. Fourthly, Todd your argument is off subject, because neither MIke nor me ever mentioned it looking best, although I would have to agree, PNG most certainly does look best, depending on the image. And fifthly, Mike, sorry, but no, without using a PNGGauntlet or whatever, I am not. All I simply stated is that gif files have to be smaller, (probably should have said before) without using pnggauntlet. And I say without, because anyone else may not have, or know where to get it. Well...and sixthly, I use PNGs just as much you, but there are a lot of times when PNGs will not cut the job, and GIFs are, again, majority of the time smaller and better. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Brett, you're wrong. The png format will handle three levels of bit-depth including 8-bit which is the same as the gif format. The references you state are somewhat outdated and don't consider the different methods of compression that a png will handle natively. I suggest you try a few comparisons out yourself. They don't always work out smaller but most often they do. Seconded. You can make 8 bit PNGs with as little as 8 colors or as many as 256. Just try Save for Web Devices in Photoshop CS3. I don't even bother with GIFs anymore, the 8-bit PNGs come out smaller almost every time. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
OK. So, lets agree that (Start here quoting you:::If you're not using a decent compressor then png's are 15% - 20% oversized.:::end quoting you here.) we are both right. I am simply stating as such without using a compressor (Start quoting you:::If you're not using a decent compressor then png's are 15% - 20% oversized.:::), there for gif file-size IS smaller. In which case I am right, especially here if you are required to use GIFs either way, for backwards compatibility. Note, the linked site talks about IE 5.5 and 6 --- http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/ To Andrew, one of the smartest things I have read to date. Agreed!!! On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: There is an issue where a PNG will not look exactly the same in IE vrs FF Never come across that, have you a reference or example? I have come across something similar with Safari and Photoshop images not blending. But it wasn't png related it was a gamma setting in Photoshop. Brett: PNGgauntlet is freeware: http://brh.numbera.com/software/pnggauntlet/ As is PNGcrush: http://pmt.sourceforge.net/pngcrush/ If you're not using a decent compressor then png's are 15% - 20% oversized. I'll have to agree to disagree with you on gif file-size being smaller. Mike Foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2008 15:59 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared There is an issue where a PNG will not look exactly the same in IE vrs FF So if you try to match a background with the PNG you may have issues between the browsers having said that I love PNGs myself On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Brett, you're wrong. The png format will handle three levels of bit-depth including 8-bit which is the same as the gif format. The references you state are somewhat outdated and don't consider the different methods of compression that a png will handle natively. I suggest you try a few comparisons out yourself. They don't always work out smaller but most often they do. Seconded. You can make 8 bit PNGs with as little as 8 colors or as many as 256. Just try Save for Web Devices in Photoshop CS3. I don't even bother with GIFs anymore, the 8-bit PNGs come out smaller almost every time. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** life is certain death is short ~furry lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ---Warning This e-mail is from outside Tesco - check that it is genuine. Tesco may monitor and record all e-mails. Disclaimer This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.
From the few recent posts, I have become so far confused, as anyone would as to why, Gunlaug, you keep stating xHTML5 or as above you say XHTML5? HTML and xHTML/XHTML are different. xHTML is XHTML, albeit 1.0 or 1.1 or 2.0 etc. So, is it a typo? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] the Name attribute
I don't why, but XHTML (I am using Strict 1.0 in the below examples), has deprecated the use of the name attribute. That being said, my question is, Why was the name attribute deprecated?. -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
That is strange, the examples didn't show. Any idea as to why? On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Brett Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't why, but XHTML (I am using Strict 1.0 in the below examples), has deprecated the use of the name attribute. That being said, my question is, Why was the name attribute deprecated?. -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
Yes, and colors in a row or horizontal line, so to speak, compress better depending on the compression mechanism. Just say that jpeg files read/compress horizontal, and gif files read/compress vertical, not sure if that is exactly correct, just an example. But iii (if the size is 1 pixel wide for each i and 2 long for each dot and 6 long for each line, with 3 pixels spacing between each one) would be smaller as a gif file. While iii would be larger as a jpeg file due to the stops in the color changes. The less the compression mechanism has to stop storing a particular color (i.e. #000, or black), the smaller the file size will be. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I remember rightly if you are able to save the image with a transparent background it keeps the file size lower because a transparent pixel takes less space than a pixel with colour information. It may be possible to get better compression on a file that contains lots of pixels of the same colour, but all pixels require the same basic storage, regardless of whether they are transparent or not! Mike Mike Brockington Web Development Specialist www.calcResult.com www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk www.edinburgh.gov.uk This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the author alone. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] First Attempt
As someone who has read the post, in Dreamweaver 8, to follow along with Todd's statement, choose (File -- New) and under the General tab choose Starter Pages. You may choose from the list DW8 has. The rest I agree with. Try learning some of the code from the pre-existing sites, modify one section of code in Code/Design view, hit the refresh button in the properties menu at the bottom, and see/study the results. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: As someone who hasn't opened dreamweaver in years and codes css and xhtml by hand, but learned to build websites in Dreamweaver, I would say Rachel's approach might be difficult for some. This being your first website Kate, I would say to use some of the better tools Dreamweaver offers and learn from them. For instance in Dreamweaver CS3 you can create a new html page (File New), choose New HTML page type and then you can select from some css based Layouts. I think that's a great place to start. From there you should read up on some articles, pay attention to what happens as you experiment and modify things, etc. Design-based approach in Dreamweaver can be detrimental if you never learn what's behind it, but I think it's a great way to get started as long as you learn from what it offers. I'll probably get some backlash on this. I'm not saying Dreamweaver even does a really good job of writing markup or css when you are working in design-view, but it gives a good place to start. Also, I'd recommend using Split view so you can start to see the code changes and get comfortable with it as you interact with the design. On Nov 24, 2008, at 7:22 AM, Rachel Radford wrote: Hi Kate, For a first webpage you're doing pretty well - you have some images there and have changed the background colour and text colour on the page. However, using the Dreamweaver design view approach will not give you the best end results, or teach you the best practices. Peter's link gives you some really good tips on moving beyond the elementary use of Dreamweaver's design view, and point 5 - validate your page to find basic errors is a definite step you don't want to miss. Other than that, you may want to look at following online tutorials. For example, your menus can be enhanced by following some easy steps (for example, http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/horizontal_introduction.htm) which you can then edit as you like. You will be able to find many tutorials for page layout, table styling, menus etc. by searching Google and people here will also be able to give you pointers on good tutorials. Then moving forward when you feel more confident with editing the html css from these tutorials, you will be able to build your own menus and eventually the entire website from scratch based on your custom design :) All the best, Rachel -Original Message- I followed with another messge for the link but here it is: http://www.jungaling.com/katalinadesigns/index.html Sorry.! Kate My first attempt at Web design but only first step to any design and wondered what you think so far as to: Top menu/color/images/table/..gently *grin In IE the page color is white so need to find how to get the correct color. This color works in FF ok - #172228 I am working in DW8 on WinXP I have yet to get to grips with CSS yet but learning as I go along. Thanks Kate. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.
I have, rather unfortunately, entered into an argument with a couple colleagues about the future of HTML/XHTML/XML. So, I was wondering, based on everyone's expertise level here who is right. I say that in the years coming, maybe 20 years from now, who knows, but eventually HTML and XHTML will be replaced by XML. The other two say differently, more along the lines that they will never do away with HTML or XHTML. So...that being said who is right? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML Standard question
OK. For the last almost 24 hours, I have been trying to get the link to the results posted on the server to work, but have failed miserably. The results were made public to subscribers of the newsletters they mail out every month. They have not yet decided to use the Internet to mail out the newsletters. Just post and allow pay-per-one-time-view. I had to request permission to have a free link up this time. Now the server will not cooperate. Still working on it. To Luke, I did make a mistake in the way I read what was said. They have it turned on by default but would PREFER not to. And to Ben, I read what you posted and the links as well, thanks. I guess I just didn't pay enough attention when searching. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Ben Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So exactly what behavior is mandated for UAs implementing HTML5 if a form is submitted with a 'required' element unsatisfied? If I'm reading http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#required0 correctly, the form just won't submit if a required field is empty. Not sure about the UI feedback and so on, although looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#form-submission I think the onus will be on the developer to handle error feedback (ie. same as now). cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] XHTML Standard question
I know that most, if not possible to say all, Web page designers use JavaScript for form validation. During a recent poll done by a few local colleges, 41.2% of the people who responded stated that they would rather not have to enable JavaScript, but on rare occasion they do for certain sites that require JS for use of their forms to buy or sign up for something. After reading this, I did some research, and could not find any tag attributes for form elements that would not require the use JS for form validation. Therefore, I was wondering if it would be feasible to include a standard that would use a syntax similar (does not actually *have* to be this way) to selected=selected? In which case, the syntax would be required=required. Or, if it is an email input (i.e. Your e-mail address:input type=text required=required; include:@ /). -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML Standard question
OK. I had forgotten you could use server-side validation. Thanks. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember to use server side validation and you don't need to worry about rewriting standards :) Brett Patterson wrote: I know that most, if not possible to say all, Web page designers use JavaScript for form validation. During a recent poll done by a few local colleges, 41.2% of the people who responded stated that they would rather not have to enable JavaScript, but on rare occasion they do for certain sites that require JS for use of their forms to buy or sign up for something. After reading this, I did some research, and could not find any tag attributes for form elements that would not require the use JS for form validation. Therefore, I was wondering if it would be feasible to include a standard that would use a syntax similar (does not actually *have* to be this way) to selected=selected? In which case, the syntax would be required=required. Or, if it is an email input (i.e. Your e-mail address:input type=text required=required; include:@ /). -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
How do I get a form field to reset itself back to its default value if the user has changed it? Without clicking on a refresh/reload button on the page but instead using the browser's button. *The XHTML Transitional code I have is*: tddiv class=inmiddleof label for=hsQty/label form action= name=heartSearch select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc() option value=00/option option value=11/option option value=22/option option value=33/option /select /form /div/td tddiv class=inmiddleof form action= name=hSearchoutput input type=text name=hsTotal id=hsTotal / /form /div/td -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
The Reload Current Page button in Firefox, and I think the Refresh Page button in IE, and whatever those buttons are called in other browsers. NOT with an input button to reset. Thanks. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Do you just mean a form reset input button? input type=reset value=Reset!? You lost me on the but instead using the browser's button.. what button? On Nov 13, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Brett Patterson wrote: How do I get a form field to reset itself back to its default value if the user has changed it? Without clicking on a refresh/reload button on the page but instead using the browser's button. *The XHTML Transitional code I have is*: tddiv class=inmiddleof label for=hsQty/label form action= name=heartSearch select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc() option value=00/option option value=11/option option value=22/option option value=33/option /select /form /div/td tddiv class=inmiddleof form action= name=hSearchoutput input type=text name=hsTotal id=hsTotal / /form /div/td *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
The Reload Current Page button in Firefox, and I think the Refresh Page button in IE, and whatever those buttons are called in other browsers. NOT with an input button to reset. Thanks. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Do you just mean a form reset input button? input type=reset value=Reset!? You lost me on the but instead using the browser's button.. what button? On Nov 13, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Brett Patterson wrote: How do I get a form field to reset itself back to its default value if the user has changed it? Without clicking on a refresh/reload button on the page but instead using the browser's button. *The XHTML Transitional code I have is*: tddiv class=inmiddleof label for=hsQty/label form action= name=heartSearch select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc() option value=00/option option value=11/option option value=22/option option value=33/option /select /form /div/td tddiv class=inmiddleof form action= name=hSearchoutput input type=text name=hsTotal id=hsTotal / /form /div/td *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
To Andrew: What I am trying to do is get a form field to reset a value back to the default selected when a user clicks on the refresh or reload button in the browser, not the page (meaning I am not using input type=reset / to reset the fields). So, for example, lets say this code is: form action=processorformquantity.pl name=heartSearch select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc() option value=00/option option value=11/option option value=22/option option value=33/option /select br /input type=submit value=Submit / /form As you see the code above displayed in the browser, 0 will automatically be shown in the dropdown box (let's call it the default#). But, if the user changes the default# to let's say 2, and then decides to reset the page for whatever reason using the browser's default refresh or reload button, the user-selected 2, will change back to default# (or 0). The reason is because for some reason, unknown to me, it is a major part of my grade. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I guess use onbeforeunload to trigger an event? http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/OnBeforeUnloadDemo1.htm On Nov 13, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Brett Patterson wrote: The Reload Current Page button in Firefox, and I think the Refresh Page button in IE, and whatever those buttons are called in other browsers. NOT with an input button to reset. Thanks. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Do you just mean a form reset input button? input type=reset value=Reset!? You lost me on the but instead using the browser's button.. what button? How do I get a form field to reset itself back to its default value if the user has changed it? Without clicking on a refresh/reload button on the page but instead using the browser's button. *The XHTML Transitional code I have is*: tddiv class=inmiddleof label for=hsQty/label form action= name=heartSearch select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc() option value=00/option option value=11/option option value=22/option option value=33/option /select /form /div/td tddiv class=inmiddleof form action= name=hSearchoutput input type=text name=hsTotal id=hsTotal / /form /div/td *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
Sorry, but no. If you look in FF3 it keeps the text entered in the form
field when page is refreshed the same. It does not remove it.
There are no code examples, and I have exhausted the library and internet
resources.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
sorry all, does this not solve it?
I guess use onbeforeunload to trigger an event?
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/OnBeforeUnloadDemo1.htm
On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:11 PM, Tom ('Mas) Pickering wrote:
Brett -
Here's the problem: Different browsers handle that differently. Firefox
2+ won't reset the fields on Reload, only on Shift-Reload. IE 6.0+ resets
on a simple Refresh. What is the teacher using?
At 11:34 AM 11/13/2008, you wrote:
To Andrew:
What I am trying to do is get a form field to reset a value back to the
default selected when a user clicks on the refresh or reload button in the
browser, not the page (meaning I am not using input type=reset / to
reset the fields). So, for example, lets say this code is:
form action=processorformquantity.pl name=heartSearch
select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc()
option value=00/option
option value=11/option
option value=22/option
option value=33/option
/select
br /input type=submit value=Submit /
/form
As you see the code above displayed in the browser, 0 will automatically be
shown in the dropdown box (let's call it the default#). But, if the user
changes the default# to let's say 2, and then decides to reset the page for
whatever reason using the browser's default refresh or reload button, the
user-selected 2, will change back to default# (or 0).
The reason is because for some reason, unknown to me, it is a major part of
my grade.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I guess use onbeforeunload to trigger an event?
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/OnBeforeUnloadDemo1.htm
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Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
Ok, thanks. I'll try that.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
i realize that. I'm saying use this behavior to notice the page has been
refreshed and call a function that resets the fields you wish to have this
action. I'm not claiming that script solves your problem, but would be a
gateway for you to write something that does.
On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Brett Patterson wrote:
Sorry, but no. If you look in FF3 it keeps the text entered in the form
field when page is refreshed the same. It does not remove it.
There are no code examples, and I have exhausted the library and internet
resources.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
sorry all, does this not solve it?
I guess use onbeforeunload to trigger an event?
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/OnBeforeUnloadDemo1.htm
On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:11 PM, Tom ('Mas) Pickering wrote:
Brett -
Here's the problem: Different browsers handle that differently. Firefox
2+ won't reset the fields on Reload, only on Shift-Reload. IE 6.0+ resets
on a simple Refresh. What is the teacher using?
At 11:34 AM 11/13/2008, you wrote:
To Andrew:
What I am trying to do is get a form field to reset a value back to the
default selected when a user clicks on the refresh or reload button in the
browser, not the page (meaning I am not using input type=reset / to
reset the fields). So, for example, lets say this code is:
form action=processorformquantity.pl name=heartSearch
select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc()
option value=00/option
option value=11/option
option value=22/option
option value=33/option
/select
br /input type=submit value=Submit /
/form
As you see the code above displayed in the browser, 0 will automatically
be shown in the dropdown box (let's call it the default#). But, if the user
changes the default# to let's say 2, and then decides to reset the page for
whatever reason using the browser's default refresh or reload button, the
user-selected 2, will change back to default# (or 0).
The reason is because for some reason, unknown to me, it is a major part
of my grade.
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Re: [WSG] Reset form fields to default values when user clicks the refresh/reload button in there Browser, not on the page.
Ah, ok, I got it figured out thanks. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Brett Patterson wrote: Sorry, but no. If you look in FF3 it keeps the text entered in the form field when page is refreshed the same. It does not remove it. There are no code examples, and I have exhausted the library and internet resources. Well, forgive me if I go into grumpy old fart mode here, but your problem is only tangentially related to Web Standards at best. And while I can be grudgingly appreciative of your initiative in submitting your school assignment here for an answer I think: A) You have actually already received in previous answers quite enough clues to work out your own answer B) If your teacher isn't utterly incompetent, he won't have set a task that he hasn't already either provided an answer to, or at least pointers to where to look for an answer. That said, I'm sure anyone here would be happy to review your eventual solution for standards compliance. Please take this in good part, and good luck, Andrew 352.870.6661 www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] *In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions.* *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Another Question about JavaScript.
I hate to ask another question about JavaScript, but I need help with ONE
more thing, please?
*Using the following JS code in XHTML Transitional:*
function proc()
{
var num = document.heartSearch.hsQty.value*8.95;
document.hSearchoutput.hsTotal.value = r2(num);
}
function prc2()
{
var num = document.youKnow.cutSandHours.value*12.17;
document.outme.soter.value = r2(num);
}
function r2(n)
{
ans = n * 1000;
ans = Math.round(ans /10) + ;
while (ans.length 3) {ans = 0 + ans;}
len = ans.length;
ans = ans.substring(0,len-2) + . + ans.substring(len-2,len);
return ans;
}
*and the following HTML code in XHTML Transitional:*
div id=oklastone
form action= name=heartSearch
select name=hsQty id=hsQty onchange=proc()
option value=00/option
option value=33/option
/select
/form
/div
div id=otherrecal
form action= name=hSearchoutput
input type=text name=hsTotal id=hsTotal value=0.00 /
/form
/div
div id=meinga
form action= name=youKnow
select name=cutSandHours id=cutSandHours onchange=prc2()
option value=11/option
option value=55/option
option value=66/option
/select
/div
div id=noca
form action= name=outme
input type=text name=soter id=soter value=0.00 /
/form
/div
div id=costana
form action= name=costAndTtl
input type=text name=TtlCost /
/form
/div
How would I get the last form to show the SUM of both the id=hsTotal and
the id=soter text fields?
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Re: [WSG] Question on servers and Email campaign
I agree with everyone!!! NEVER EVER give out your information like that. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(computer_security)because it sounds like a Social-Engineering attack!! You are right. On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I Was called and asked for my server's root access information so that they can download their Software onto my server for my clients email campaign. that would be their software that sets up a mail relay for the purposes of illegal spamming? ...no, that would just be me being paranoid. You did right! -- Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.woowoowoo.com ~~~ * ~~~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Question about change color of numbers in OL list
Change the OL tag color:red, and then use the span color:blue for your span.
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Антон Грахов [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi to all,
how to change color of numbers in items OL list, but do not change
color of text in items?
My idea with inner span:
CSS code:
li { color: red; }
li span { color: blue; }
HTML code:
ol
lispanItem1/span/li
lispanItem2/span/li
/ol
Any idea, but without span?
--
Thanks and regards,
Anton Grakhov
Russia
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Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED!
And I'll bring the empty belly. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I'll bring the beer! :) Sent from my iPhone. On 06/11/2008, at 8:53 PM, 8bits Media [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, Will you be bringing a cake? Nick. On 6 Nov 2008, at 21:44, russ - maxdesign wrote: If there are any more posts to this thread I will have to come to your houses, one at a time... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from?
Are these away on leave notices from people who manage the webstandardsgroup.org site? Or individual people? It is kinda getting annoying? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from?
Oh. I have always just set mine up to not send out for specific e-mail addresses. Sorry, did not mean to exasperate the issue. I did not know it was one. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Just auto replies from list members away on leave (who have set their 'out of office' setting to 'on') It is annoying, but in saying that I'm probably guilty of it at times ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from?
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? document: wasChristie Mason received by: at:11/05/2008 13:41:14 _ Sorry, could not resist. ;) On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Yep, but they're just a little less annoying than read receipts. Christie Mason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dennis Lapcewich Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:41 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:11/05/2008 13:41:14 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
What? On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Ashley Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please stop emailing me! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 3:30 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Sorry for being a bit off topic but. I think you missed a point about friendly URLs For each of these examples you state, you really don't want to burden your marketing team with urls like your example: www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an d_ornaments/full_product_list.htmhttp://www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm when any sensible marketer will tell you: www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products is where you should point them, and then let them find cages in one click on that page., maybe even at www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products/cages the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled / product_list.html anyway. BAD IA IMHO Joe OK, in marketing terms you can easily create your own TinyURL by redirecting vimportant traffic through a rewrite. On 05/11/2008, at 12:40 PM, Chris Vickery wrote: More reasons to keep 'em short: 1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone) 2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where there's a line return, so breaks the hyperlink 3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie. www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an d_ornaments/full_product_list.htmhttp://www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm 4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole URL is not visible. Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech readers. It's about good IA and making everything generally better to get at. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: other than making sense and having a strong connection with the page the content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit sensible about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters. of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url should required to be clicked to be gotten to. -- noon silky http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 (0)434 047 804 http://www.typingthevoid.com http://twitter.com/wheelyweb http://www.linkedin.com/in/jortenzi Skype:wheelyweb http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg Click here to report this message as spam: https://login.mailguard.com.au/report/1wc50HObVz/4A8jXjLDyusxDyPnihvJDC/0 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help:
Re: [WSG] CSS invisible to IE
There are conditional CSS HTML codes that can apply to FF. If you want to
use them, you can try:
!--[if N]!--link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=the
location.css /!--![endif]--
If the above does not work, try adding an additional N in !--[if N]!--,
as in !--[if NN]!--.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hi,
This list isn't really a help desk. For such things Google is your friend.
Anyway, there are various methods/hacks available. My preference is to use
child selectors
eg
#container .something {
/* this will be used in ie6 */
}
#container .something {
/* this will be used in firefox and ie7 and safari etc*/
}
the order is important
if you want ONLY FF to have the rule applied (I cannot imagine why) try
using some of the -moz attributes that may be applicable
Regards
L
Fuji kusaka wrote:
Is there any way to code css (not conditional inline css), so that the CSS
apply online to FF?
--
Fuji kusaka
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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - versions
I like that explanation. I get it now. Thanks. One more quick question though, what is a let-block, in general? Thanks. That really does make it a lot easier to understand. Brett On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brett Patterson skrev: I am sorry, but I must ask. Are you saying that the term JavaScript is owned by Sun? Or just the Java part? And, yes, JavaScript is implemented in Internet Explorer. I see that your question has already been answered. I will give some additional points. Mocha was Brendan Eich's internal name during initial development at Netscape. It was renamed LiveScript by him and his fellow enginers, but changed to JavaScript by the *marketing* department. JScript in MSIE 6 and 7 is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.2 and to ECMAScript 3.0. There is a document, produced by MS, that in very high detail outlines how JScript, and other browsers JS engines, differs from the spec. It is available at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript The JavaScript support in Safari, Google Chrome and Opera is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.5, and some parts of JavaScript 1.6. (Note: 99 % of the time when one curses the differences between browsers, it is not because of their deviations from each other in Java/J/EcmaScript, but how they differ from each other on the DOM.) Mozilla is allowed by the ECMAScript spec to develop JavaScript as a superset to ECMAScript, and indeed they have. JavaScript 1.8 contains quite a few features that (probably) will not even make it into ECMAScript 3.1 (generators, iterators, let-blocks - personally I really like let blocks!). A few years ago Netscape proposed a JavaScript 2.0 version. Many features from that proposal has made it into ActionScript and into JScript.NET (used on the server). ECMAScript 4.0 that was being worked upon altered from the original JS 2.0 proposal in some ways. That work has however been halted. One group, led by Mozilla and Adobe, wanted to *add* to ECMAScript in radical ways. One group, led by MS and Yahoo (Doug Crockford), wanted primarily a *subset*, getting rid of the bad parts. They soon added features, though, and the language was in essence forked. A compromise has been reached. ECMAScript Harmony will most probably be released as version 4, but not for a couple of years. And it will differ from the ES 4 proposal as stood in June. It is the intention of the EcmaScript working group to release ES 3.1 next year, at which time they hope to have two interoperable and complete implementations. One will most probably be SpiderMonkey (Mozilla) and the other might be V8. The new ES 4, i.e. Harmony, will probably not see the light of day until 2010 or 2011. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - let blocks
OK. Thanks
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brett Patterson skrev:
I like that explanation. I get it now. Thanks. One more quick question
though, what is a let-block, in general? Thanks. That really does make it a
lot easier to understand.
Brett
Normally JavaScript does not have block scope.
var foo = 1;
{
foo = 2;
}
alert(foo); // will give you 2
Let-blocks will provide block-scope on an opt in basis:
var foo = 1;
{
let foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
let bar = 3;
}
alert(foo); // 1
alert(bar); // undefined
Block scope is one feature that makes it easy to write interoperable code.
My variables won't mess with your variables. Today we use function scope to
accomplish the same thing:
var foo = 1;
(function() {
var foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
})() // last parenthesis invokes anonymous function
alert(foo); // 1
Let blocks are really handy in for loops:
var i = Hi there;
for ( let i = 0; i 10; i++) {
alert(i); // 0 - 9
}
alert(i); // Hi there
Self executing functions have another kind of power through closures and
possible return values, so the two do not completely overlap.
More info on the New in JavaScript 1.7 article on MDC.
Lars Gunther
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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
When you say support, are you saying that Internet Explorer will not execute JavaScript, or it will execute JavaScript as JScript? And in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript link you provided it states that JavaScript is heavily object-based, so should I assume this as well to be correct? On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:55 AM, liorean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: liorean wrote: (Netscape had originally intended to use the name LiveScript.) 2008/10/28 Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Actually, it was initially released as LiveScript and renamed later. IIRC Navigator 2.0 also supported a mocha: pseudo-protocol like the javascript: pseudo-protocol we have today, from the name it was given before it became LiveScript. Anyway, by the time the first full version of Navigator that had it was released (2.0) it had already been renamed to JavaScript, so I'd hardly say it was released under the LiveScript name. -- David liorean Andersson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
Actually it did say it is heavily object-based. But now, under Dynamic Programming -- Objects as associated arrays, it says it is almost entirely object-based. Looks like it just got updated. Internet Explorer does read JavaScript, but does it support JavaScript as a whole, or does it read JavaScript as JScript? On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Patterson Sent: 28 October 2008 12:35 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please When you say support, are you saying that Internet Explorer will not execute JavaScript, or it will execute JavaScript as JScript? And in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript link you provided it states that JavaScript is heavily object-based, so should I assume this as well to be correct? As far as I can see, it does not say that. The facts are that the JScript run-time engine will attempt to execute whatever is thrown at it. In most cases something that looks like valid Javascript will produce something like what was intended. Think of it like support for CSS: IE is always a little bit different, but it is still CSS. And at the end of the day, JScript, ECMAscript, ActionScript and JavaScript are more or less the same beast as far as this discussion is concerned. They are all based on objects, they all implement inheritance, and all of them can be used to write linear, procedural code if required. Regards, Mike Mike Brockington Web Development Specialist www.calcResult.com www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk www.edinburgh.gov.uk This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the author alone. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
There is only one JavaScript, as created by Netscape. Though it can be used for other things, such as programming an application, I think that is worded right. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: liorean wrote: Anyway, by the time the first full version of Navigator that had it was released (2.0) it had already been renamed to JavaScript, so I'd hardly say it was released under the LiveScript name. Well, at this point I don't know exactly when a version of Navigator was released with it under either name but certainly remember reading plenty about LiveScript before the name change. And there were certainly some interesting internal discussions at JavaSoft about the whole issue. :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible JS/Mootools
It says the page validates. And I visited it, but don't see no problems with it. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can anyone help me with this? Many Thanks Mathew O'Connor http://www.essentialebizsolutions.net/ 0800 3277935 -- *Disclaimer*: This email and its attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and its attachments then please contact the sender and do not use or forward this e-mail to anyone. Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd, Registered in England and Wales Company Registration No: 57200784. Registered Office: 92 Stanton Road, Meir, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, ST3 6DF. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd *Sent:* 28 October 2008 15:32 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] Accessible JS/Mootools Hi Everyone, I'm trying to implement a few features from the mootools library on a clients web site. Basically I'm trying to get 3 element to load differently on the page load. the 1st one is the navigation bar which I think is completed the second is a div that has a .png image for transparency that I want to slide into place so basically have it's width go from 0px - 300px then when that has finished it animation for the text inside it which has another div container to fade in. can anyone help? I've searched the web and the only things I can find either don't work or they aren't accessible. div class=page-animation div class=page-content (needs to have the slide from 0px to 310px on page load) div class=padding(needs to have any text/images contained to fade in on page load) h1Welcome to strongACB/strong/h1 pstrongLorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Nulla consequat est sed tellus. Donec ante augue, suscipit nec, tempor a, accumsan sit amet, lectus./strong/p pAliquam dolor mi, tempus in, congue at, blandit eu, nulla. Nam in quam eget nisl malesuada fringilla. Mauris eget sapien. Duis eu augue eu est rutrum semper. Nunc et tellus. Nunc rhoncus, ante facilisis bibendum feugiat, quam est sagittis felis, a imperdiet quam nisi non dolor. Praesent rutrum lectus non dui. Aenean lorem. Sed pulvinar mauris vitae mauris. Vivamus vitae tellus at nunc ullamcorper rhoncus./p pQuisque lectus lorem, venenatis non, scelerisque a, suscipit at, neque. Quisque faucibus feugiat lacus. Morbi ullamcorper diam ut dolor./p /div /div /div site is at www.essentialebizsolutions.net/client/acb Many thanks Essential eBiz Solutions 0800 327 7935 www.essentialebizsolutions.net *Disclaimer*: This email and its attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and its attachments then please contact the sender and do not use or forward this e-mail to anyone. Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd, Registered in England and Wales Company Registration No: 57200784. Registered Office: 92, Stanton Road, Meir, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, ST3 6DF. Please consider the environmental impact of printing this e-mail. CONFIDENTIAL: This email is intended for and confidential to the named recipient. If you have received a copy in error, please accept our apologies and destroy it. You may not use or disclose the contents of this e-mail to anyone, nor take copies of it. The only copies permitted are to be made by the named recipient and for the purpose of completing successful electronic transmission to the named recipient and then only on condition that these copies, with this notice attached, are kept confidential until destruction. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
Yes. But, one final question. Was the *first ever* implementation of JavaScript designed to be object-oriented, object-based, or prototype-based? Thank you all. Oh and to David and Christian, in regards to the w3schools, I reread parts of their site, and I understand now what you mean. My apologies. :) Thanks again, Brett On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony wrote: My sentiments exactly. On 27/10/2008, at 3:46 PM, Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid I will have to throw up my hands and give up on you. You are a lost cause. you cannot be reached. Oh, good. Can we return the list to web standards now? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
I am sorry, but I must ask. Are you saying that the term JavaScript is owned by Sun? Or just the Java part? And, yes, JavaScript is implemented in Internet Explorer. On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, great. It was my intent to acknowledge some standards / submissions for OO which inferred classes / native inheritance were needed. Thanks for your help :) Cheers, Anthony. Keryx Web wrote: Anthony Ziebell skrev: Still confuses me though - if someone is object-orientated but is in essence prototype-based (with regards to object, inheritance, etc), why is it incorrect to say JavaScript is prototype-based? Your confusion comes from comparing apples to steam trains. Prototypes are an inheritance mechanism for objects. Classes are another inheritance mechanism. A language may implement either one or both (very rare). It does not matter which inheritance mechanism that is used. It is still an OO language. It is *not* incorrect to say JavaScript is prototype based. It is. No one is denying it. It is *not* incorrect to say JavaScript is OO. It is, since OO is a paradigm for programming which JS fits very neatly in. It is de facto called OO in the ECMAScript spec. It is *not* incorrect to say JavaScript is object based. It is - since it has object wrappers for all primitive values. You really did seem to say that classes are needed for a language to be called OO. Now you have stated that you did not intend to say that. Case closed. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] how come
Have you tried:
ul li:hover
{
list-style-type: circle;
}
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:04 PM, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The list-style appears on the li element. The selector li a:hover
matches the a element, which isn't display: list-item and so can't
have a list marker. Additionally, CSS provides no way to select an
element based on its children, so you can't match the list item based on
the hover state of a link inside it.
You could match li:hover, but that won't work in IE7 in Quirks mode or
IE6 at all.
Thanks, so its actually on a separate element in this case.. well that
explains it.
and sorry bout that everyone I was unaware that my email client did that.
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Re: [WSG] Writing authoritative content
Uh...yeah. Both the virtual and physical ones. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Andrew Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know but people still read magazines? On 25-Oct-08, at 5:22 PM, Edward Clarke wrote: Andrew, I'm not sure who those questions were aimed at but does the medium matter if the information is the same? It's the validity of the content that's at question here. Regards, Edward Clarke www.ebizconsultancy.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Brown Sent: 25 October 2008 22:16 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Writing authoritative content This isn't a magazine website?, its a physical magazine? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
