Re: Mind-reading-device-could-become-reality

One step closer to scanning and uploading :) On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > Hi, > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/**science/science-news/9051909/** > Mind-reading-device-could-**become-reality.html

Mind-reading-device-could-become-reality

Hi, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9051909/Mind-reading-device-could-become-reality.html Are not computers wonderful tools? :-) Any comments? Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To pos

Re: Big Bang belief

On 1/31/2012 8:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Regarding the "philosopher's nothing": This present moment exists, and it has no cause since our universe is a four dimensional structure (time is a subjective phenomenon). This timeless existence of this moment establishes that "nothingness" cannot ex

Re: Big Bang belief

Regarding the "philosopher's nothing": This present moment exists, and it has no cause since our universe is a four dimensional structure (time is a subjective phenomenon). This timeless existence of this moment establishes that "nothingness" cannot exist. In short: It is an impossible state. T

Re: Big Bang belief

On 31 January 2012 22:55, John Mikes wrote: I agree with what you say, John. When we reach such a pitch of puzzlement about our very categories of thought it's a sure sign that we're bumping into some human limitation or other. Temporary or permanent, who knows? But still, I'd opt for puzzleme

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 4:40 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 2:33 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Craig Weinberg > >wrote: > > > > > On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > > > > I agree

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 4:40 pm, Terren Suydam wrote: > What if a baby is fed a virtual reality from the day it was born? > Assume that (as in the movie) the sensory inputs are rich enough that > if we were to experience it, we would be hard pressed to detect that > it was a virtual reality. I will agree for

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 4:00 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > > > On Jan 31, 2:52 pm, Terren Suydam wrote: > > > Craig, > > > > The movie The Matrix is essentially about comp. What is it about that > > > movie's premise that seems impossible to you? > > > It's possible to simulate a wo

Big Bang belief

David Nyman wrote: *On 25 January 2012 19:46, meekerdb <**meeke...@verizon.net* *> wrote:* *> Note that the theories I mentioned do not assume a spacetime vacuum. One > may say they assume a potentiality for a spacetime vacuum, but to deny even > potential would be to deny that anything c

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 2:55 pm, acw wrote: > On 1/31/2012 19:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:> On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, > acw wrote: > > >> A digital or analog camera would get similar amounts of noise as the > >> eye, actually probably less than the eye. > > > Why do you say that? Have you ever taken a photo with the

Re: for Craig

Craig - see below... On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > They are part of the same thing, although perpendicular (organization > is material forms across volumetric space, experience is entangled > perceptions through sequential time...exact opposites, always.) This contrad

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 1/31/2012 3:03 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Jan 2012, at 19:11, Stephen P. King wrote: snip Hi, In Craig's defense I would like to point out that however trolling or postmodernist you might see his ideas, he is trying hard to think outside of the box that you guys are gyrating i

Help with mailing list configuration

I have a filter set in my mail software such that any Everything List thread that has more than 20% of the comments by Craig Weinberg gets put into a special folder. I find this helps me to prioritize my reading. It's really working well! But something must be wrong, as I haven't seen any other

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On Jan 31, 2:33 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > > > On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > > > > I agree with your point about thinking outside the box, but barring > some

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

What if a baby is fed a virtual reality from the day it was born? Assume that (as in the movie) the sensory inputs are rich enough that if we were to experience it, we would be hard pressed to detect that it was a virtual reality. If the baby grows up in a virtual world, complete with rich social

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 meekerdb > On 1/31/2012 11:11 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > Also when you close your eyes, your sensor still receive stimuli from the > eyes. Only in total blackness would you see black, but you'll still receive > information from other senses and parts of your brain. You never have "

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > On Jan 31, 2:52 pm, Terren Suydam wrote: > > Craig, > > > > The movie The Matrix is essentially about comp. What is it about that > > movie's premise that seems impossible to you? > > It's possible to simulate a world for a person but it is not possible > to simulate t

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 2:52 pm, Terren Suydam wrote: > Craig, > > The movie The Matrix is essentially about comp. What is it about that > movie's premise that seems impossible to you? It's possible to simulate a world for a person but it is not possible to simulate the sense of being a person. I have no prob

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 2:33 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > > I agree with your point about thinking outside the box, but barring some > > > astronomically improbable stroke of luck, it would be necessary f

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

Craig and Brent: would you kindly disclose an opinion that can be deemed "SUPPORTED" All our 'support' (evidence, verification whatever) comes from mostly uninformed information fragments we receive by observation(?) of the already accessible details and try to com

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > On Jan 31, 2:11 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > A conscious program should involves deep computation and self reflection, > > visual qualia "inputs" are not only from visual sensors but also from > > internal parts like in human. > > > > Also when you close your eyes,

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 2:11 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > A conscious program should involves deep computation and self reflection, > visual qualia "inputs" are not only from visual sensors but also from > internal parts like in human. > > Also when you close your eyes, your sensor still receive stimuli from

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 31 Jan 2012, at 19:11, Stephen P. King wrote: On 1/31/2012 12:48 PM, Joseph Knight wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > > > When we close our eyes, we sti

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

Craig, The movie The Matrix is essentially about comp. What is it about that movie's premise that seems impossible to you? Terren On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > >> I agree with your point about thinking outside the box, but b

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 1/31/2012 19:01, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, acw wrote: A digital or analog camera would get similar amounts of noise as the eye, actually probably less than the eye. Why do you say that? Have you ever taken a photo with the lens cap on? First, the eyes don't have a perfec

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > I agree with your point about thinking outside the box, but barring some > > astronomically improbable stroke of luck, it would be necessary for Craig > > to *understand what he is criticizing

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 1/31/2012 11:11 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Also when you close your eyes, your sensor still receive stimuli from the eyes. Only in total blackness would you see black, but you'll still receive information from other senses and parts of your brain. You never have "no inputs". Even in sense dep

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 1:18 pm, Joseph Knight wrote: > I agree with your point about thinking outside the box, but barring some > astronomically improbable stroke of luck, it would be necessary for Craig > to *understand what he is criticizing *before he could actually make useful > progress away from it. Su

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, acw wrote: > > > > > A digital or analog camera would get similar amounts of noise as the > > eye, actually probably less than the eye. > > Why do you say that? Have you ever taken a photo with the lens cap on? > I just looked at my digital camera

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, acw wrote: > > A digital or analog camera would get similar amounts of noise as the > eye, actually probably less than the eye. Why do you say that? Have you ever taken a photo with the lens cap on? I just looked at my digital camera in my phone and blocked the lens with my

Re: Qualia and mathematics

On 1/31/2012 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That's the reason mind exist, it accelerate the processing much more quickly. In fact, just by software change, the slower machine can always beat the faster machines, on almost inputs, except a finite number of them. I can accept that intuitively, b

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > The Limbic system predates the Neocortex evolutionarily. As I've said on this list many times. > > There is no reason to think that emotion emerged after intelligence. > And as I've said emotion is about 500 million years old but Evolution fo

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > On 1/31/2012 12:48 PM, Joseph Knight wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg >> >>> On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg >>> > >

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 1/31/2012 12:48 PM, Joseph Knight wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Quentin Anciaux > wrote: 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg mailto:whatsons...@gmail.com>> On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux mailto:allco...@gmail.com>> wrote: > 2012/1/31

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > I just explained 3 days after learning that the subject even existed here we sit at your feet while you explain all about it to us. > > that Shannon information has nothing to do with anything except data > compression. Except for data compressi

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > >> On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg >> > >> > > When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total >> > > darkness. If qualia were based on computatio

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On 1/31/2012 18:44, Craig Weinberg wrote: When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that no sensory input should equate to total blackness, since there is no information to report. Since we can dream or imagine

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 12:03 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > Nothing is easily represented... why something ? Have you more stupid > though to discuss in your pocket ? > Empty ridicule. Must have hit a nerve. Why not explain why I'm wrong instead? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to th

Re: Qualia and mathematics

On Jan 31, 7:28 am, Pierz wrote: > It's amazing the difference in the standard of evidence expected of a > study that purports to refute a phenomenon outside the conventional > paradigm compared to that expected of a study that claims to provide > evidence for it. Yes, there's the Dutch Study to

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > > > > > When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total > > > darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that > > > no sensory input should equate to total

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

On Jan 31, 11:46 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > > > When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total > > darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that > > no sensory input should equate to total blackness, since there is no > > infor

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012/1/31 Craig Weinberg > When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total > darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that > no sensory input should equate to total blackness, since there is no > information to report. > ?? WTF ? > Since we can dre

Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

When we close our eyes, we still see visual noise, even in total darkness. If qualia were based on computation, we should expect that no sensory input should equate to total blackness, since there is no information to report. Since we can dream or imagine total darkness without this kind of noise,

Re: Qualia and mathematics

On 1/31/2012 7:28 AM, Pierz wrote: On Jan 29, 3:44 pm, meekerdb wrote: On 1/28/2012 7:05 PM, Pierz wrote: On Jan 29, 10:57 am, meekerdbwrote: On 1/28/2012 3:15 PM, Pierz wrote: These approaches always end up conflating the two, their proponents getting annoyed with anyone who isn't prep

Re: Qualia and mathematics

On 1/31/2012 14:28, Pierz wrote: I'll tell you a campfire story of my own. One day my grandmother was going to drive my mother home across town. We were at my gran's place at the time and a close friend of mine was present. As they were about to leave, my friend went suddenly pale. She said "Don

Re: Qualia and mathematics

On Jan 29, 3:44 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 1/28/2012 7:05 PM, Pierz wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 29, 10:57 am, meekerdb  wrote: > >> On 1/28/2012 3:15 PM, Pierz wrote: > >> These approaches always end up conflating the two, their > >> proponents getting annoyed with anyone who isn't prepared