Re: Artist and Picture by J.W. Dunne

2019-07-12 Thread Terren Suydam
ly would be able to > build another one and by iterating, a better one. > > What's wrong with this ? > > Quentin > > Le ven. 12 juil. 2019 à 06:28, Terren Suydam a > écrit : > >> Sure, but that's not the "FOOM" scenario, in which an AI modifies its own >&g

Re: Artist and Picture by J.W. Dunne

2019-07-11 Thread Terren Suydam
st < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Advances in intelligence can just be gaining more factual knowledge, > knowing more mathematics, using faster algorithms, etc. None of that is > barred by not being able to model oneself. > > Brent > > On 7/11/2019 11:41 AM, Te

Re: Artist and Picture by J.W. Dunne

2019-07-11 Thread Terren Suydam
Similarly, one can never completely understand one's own mind, for it would take a bigger mind than one has to do so. This, I believe, is the best argument against the runaway-intelligence scenarios in which sufficiently advanced AIs recursively improve their own code to achieve ever increasing

Re: A purely relational ontology?

2019-06-18 Thread Terren Suydam
Hi Pierz, Your writings remind me very much of the work of Gilles Deleuze, a philosopher who similarly shifted ontology from *identity* to *relation, *and explored many interesting consequences of making that shift. My exposure to him came from the excellent Philosophize This podcast, which

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-20 Thread Terren Suydam
I'll add my voice to those asking you to put up or shut up. Produce an act of telepathy. You name the terms, since you're the one making the claim that you can do it. But you won't do it, because you can't. That's my clairvoyant prediction. On Mon, May 20, 2019, 6:37 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-17 Thread Terren Suydam
? > > On Friday, 17 May 2019 17:20:03 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation >> when someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a >> projection of one's own justified fear of how the

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

2019-05-17 Thread Terren Suydam
If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation when someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a projection of one's own justified fear of how they're perceived. Trump does it all the time. On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-09 Thread Terren Suydam
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, but I don't see your point. On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 5:43 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 4:31:11 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Since consciousness is not a material thing, ... >> > >

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-09 Thread Terren Suydam
what has this to do with consciousness ? > > On Thursday, 9 May 2019 00:40:59 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> For me it boils down to that a theory of everything in which all possible >> worlds exist is more plausible than one in which only world does. >> >&g

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-08 Thread Terren Suydam
For me it boils down to that a theory of everything in which all possible worlds exist is more plausible than one in which only world does. On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 3:53 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Why are you idealist ? > > -- > You received

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-07 Thread Terren Suydam
I'm not claiming to know much about your ideas. I admit to not understanding a lot of it, and I also admit to not caring enough to improve my understanding. Part of the reason I don't care enough is because I've learned to distrust people who say they know the truth of reality. Especially when

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-07 Thread Terren Suydam
ch wow! > > On Tuesday, 7 May 2019 18:01:26 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> When you admit to not knowing how a crucial part of your theory works, >> it's impossible for me to know your theory, because you don't even know it. >> >> Don't get me wrong. It's imp

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-07 Thread Terren Suydam
7, 2019 at 10:50 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Then how can you say anything about my theory if you don't know what my > theory is ? > > On Tuesday, 7 May 2019 15:39:58 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> That's your

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-07 Thread Terren Suydam
That's your job, not mine. On Tue, May 7, 2019, 2:00 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > I don't even know what you think my theory is. Can you enlighten me ? What > is my theory ? > > On Monday, 6 May 2019 21:54:13 UTC+3, T

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
[image: image.png] On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 2:54 PM Terren Suydam wrote: > You have at best an incomplete theory of how things work, if you don't > know how qualia are generated. Which means, for starters, you can't stand > behind the prediction you made. But more to the point, what are

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
hat > clearly don't appear as a consequence of life-or-death situation. If you > want to hear the magic words, here they are: I don't know how qualia are > generated. > > On Monday, 6 May 2019 19:37:51 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Your turn. Is the theory of general relativity tr

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
There are suggestive studies. My mind is open to the possibility of paranormal phenomena. But it hasn't been proven beyond any reasonable standard of proof. It is certainly not a "given" that telepathy and reincarnation are real. Your turn. Is the theory of general relativity true? I know your

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
Also, I brought up carbon monoxide poisoning a couple weeks ago, and you had nothing to say about creating qualia back then. I suspect you're just making it up as you go. On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 11:53 AM Terren Suydam wrote: > I know a charlatan when I see one. They tend to make cla

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
, 6 May 2019 18:36:32 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Givens? You have proof of reincarnation and telepathy? This is news to >> me. Over a thousand people took James Randi's million dollar challenge >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challeng

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-06 Thread Terren Suydam
s. It is not my fault that you cherry-pick what to > believe in, against all evidence. > > On Sunday, 5 May 2019 18:58:10 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> But reincarnation and telepathy are just givens, to be accepted as real >> with no caveats whatsoever. >> >&g

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-05 Thread Terren Suydam
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 3:45 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/5/2019 6:11 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > No doubt, and the cybernetic description of those animals corresponds > nicely to our intuitions about levels

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-05 Thread Terren Suydam
I love how you use scare quotes around the word "science" and constantly remind us that the brain doesn't exist, and you dismiss correlations between brain activity and subjective experience. But reincarnation and telepathy are just givens, to be accepted as real with no caveats whatsoever.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-05 Thread Terren Suydam
You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion" as if it's a problem. But it's just an assumption I make, that consciousness is identified with cybernetic dynamics. I'm exploring the consequences of that idea, which are compelling IMO. You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not adopt

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-05 Thread Terren Suydam
rom human consciousness. I think > there are quite a few distinct levels from a thermostat to a flatworm to > spider to a dog to a human. > > Brent > > On 5/4/2019 10:53 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > Yes, exactly. There's something it is like to be a thermostat. What is it >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
hermostat: There's an element that changes with temperature and makes a > connection below a certain temperature that energizes a source of > heat...and so on. Right? > > Brent > > On 5/4/2019 8:26 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > The cybernetic description of a system is a descr

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
Principia Cybernetica <http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/DEFAULT.html> which is a pretty expansive treatment of cybernetics. On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 2:55 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/4/2019 6:30 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: > >

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
So you're counting this anecdote as evidence for your theory? Is this what you mean by evolution, that the author of that story evolved to experience new qualia in the form of a reality-selecting extra-dimensional universe-sized roulette wheel, and it's this evolution that enabled him to survive?

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
is obviously has nothing to do with *Searle's argument* or your *cybernetic > delusion*. > > @philipthrift > > On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 11:10:33 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Let's say we were visited by aliens and we were able to communicate with >> them such that i

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 12:56 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> Regarding the dog, I would never run that specific experiment because >> it's unethical. There are potentially other ways to settle the bet, though. >> If we can generalize your

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
an alternative chemistry. What then? Are they zombies? What if after talking to them for a while and attributing consciousness to them based on that, they revealed that they were actually robots constructed by an alien race on their home planet. Zombies? On Sat, May 4, 2019, 11:49 AM Terren Suydam wrote

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
apply >> here, as anyone should clearly be able to see. >> >> One can wave the magic word "cybernetic" around all one wants, but it is >> clearly not useful. >> >> There are lots of delusions in the world: Ghosts, spirits, gods, and the >> "

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
which that qualia would enable them to survive." Do you accept that? On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:10 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:32:43 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> >> O

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
s unhappy.” Even > when they do grow, a group of neurons, however well networked and > organized, do not automatically make a brain. The distance from chemical > sensing to cognition is awfully long, and the slippery nature of even the > idea of cognition complicates this question. A basic s

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
with an artificial replacement does not change the consciousness. On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:30 AM Terren Suydam wrote: > What I'm suggesting draws on both functionalism and identity theory. It's > functional in the sense that the constitutive aspect of cybernetics is > entirely f

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
well as physical ones, are attributed to > matter, which is the only basic substance > > so that > > • the material composition of the brain has both physical and psychical > aspects. > > @philipthrift > > > On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 7:38:46 AM UTC-5, Terre

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 8:28 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> What makes it "your state"? It's just a bunch of programs. Why those >> programs and not others? >> > > It's the set of programs that implements the body/brain used to construct > my

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-04 Thread Terren Suydam
gt; > > @philipthrift > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 5:31:56 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Then you're missing the point of the alternative I've been offering. It's >> not about the *matter itself*, it's about the cybernetic dynamics >> implemented i

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
t; > @philipthrift > > > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 4:58:04 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Panpsychism of any flavor that identifies matter with a psychic aspect is >> subject to the problems I described earlier. >> >> It never occurred to me to google som

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
theoretical psychologists - > there is theoretical physics, chemistry, and biology, but theoretical > psychology is in a much weirder state - who would be involved. > > @philipthrift > > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 3:48:40 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> My ques

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
> science and for ψ to be ignored by science. > > @philipthrift > > > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 2:10:05 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> I see them as two sides of the same coin - as in, you don't get one >> without the other. >> >> On Fri, May

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 4:19 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/3/2019 11:44 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > > On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 1:10 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googleg

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
such things as mathematical objects* > > https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fictionalism-mathematics/ > cf. https://www.iep.utm.edu/mathfict/ > > @philipthrift > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 1:55:05 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> You should check out Bruno's U

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
I see them as two sides of the same coin - as in, you don't get one without the other. On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:00 PM wrote: > > > If "consciousness doesn't supervene on physical [or material] computation" > then does that mean there is realm for (A) consciousness and one for (B) > physical [or

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
in factories. > > There is no *spiritual/heavenly realm *- as fat as I know - where > software is running. > > Can you show me such a place? Have you seen it? > > @philipthrift > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 9:33:58 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> What happened to &qu

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
, but it would be qualitatively > different. > Yes. However, it's not clear what it would mean for a conscious agent to experience something that wasn't a "physical" world, even if the environment was completely virtual. The Matrix illustrates that nicely. Terren > > Brent >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
it like some ghost out on its own in some immaterial realm? > > > @philipthift > > > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 8:27:35 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> One way to get around this is to hold that consciousness is associated >> with the way informatio

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-03 Thread Terren Suydam
One way to get around this is to hold that consciousness is associated with the way information is processed. This is substrate independent - the fact that a brain is physical is beside the point. You could implement a brain in software, and insofar as the same kinds of information processing

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-02 Thread Terren Suydam
This reveals that you confuse the map with the territory. You don't get to excuse contradictions in your theory by saying, that's just how reality is. If you're saying the only thing exists is consciousness, that's an idea, a map. Then, there are consequences to that idea - as you flesh out your

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-02 Thread Terren Suydam
uestion about where language comes from. > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 23:00:30 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> And then once you assume it, you contradict your statement that only >> consciousness exists. >> > -- > You received this message because you are sub

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
ls that we have access to. A more purified > view would show us a different view of evolution. And indeed I'm working on > this, on trying to understand what exactly evolution is if you take out the > physical time. > > Making a prediction: An animal that only sees shades-of-gray that is abo

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
I would argue for "pancyberpsychism" (I'm no good at naming - is there a name for that already?) which is to say that there it is something it is like to do information processing of any kind. However, the quality of the consciousness involved in that processing is related to its dynamics. So

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
eady told you: interactions are not random: they are taking place > in an evolutionary context. > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 20:14:39 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> I'm saying that it's indistinguishable from one that does. >> > -- > You received this message becau

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
with > the reasons that those people invoke to make their killing instincts noble. > > Long live the scientific ayan race! > > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 20:14:39 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Because God's Will is a shitty explanation of reality (it explain

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
< everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > And if that's how reality is, that God wills it, what is the problem ? > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 18:45:02 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Exactly: "God wills it". Peace out homey >> >> -- > You received t

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
Exactly: "God wills it". Peace out homey On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:42 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Since the theory is correct, it cannot be invalidated. > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 16:17:48 UTC+3, Terren Suydam w

Re: for Cosmin

2019-05-01 Thread Terren Suydam
you get to the conclusion > that the proper definition for the concept of "existence" is the > looking-back-at-itself of self-reference, therefore existence can only by > ontologically subjective, so consciousness is all there is. > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 01:48:52 UTC+3, Te

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-30 Thread Terren Suydam
ciousness is all there > is. > > On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 01:41:48 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Who says I believe in a physical world? >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group.

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-30 Thread Terren Suydam
Who says I believe in a physical world? On Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 6:10 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Then how is the physical world in which you believe manifesting ? > > On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 22:50:08 UTC+3, Terren Suydam w

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-30 Thread Terren Suydam
Husserl showed clearly that > you have extended temporal periods in consciousness outside of the physical > time ? And this is because time in consciousness is not a succession of > moments, but a retentional structure. > > On Monday, 29 April 2019 16:58:23 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wro

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-29 Thread Terren Suydam
ts, with no > actual meaning whatsoever. Physics is just a fairy-tale that you grew up to > believe in without questioning it. Is pretty much a religion for you. You > have no idea what "gravity" is, but you say: "Ya! Ya! Gravity! Such > concept, much science!". &g

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-29 Thread Terren Suydam
ay attention to > my ideas, you would see for example that my ideas are able to explain the > passage of time, a thing that nobody done before, and in principle is a > Nobel prize worth explanation. > > On Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:10:31 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> That

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-28 Thread Terren Suydam
the following question unambiguously, I'm done. That is, what fact could you discover that would invalidate your ideas? Terren On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 3:24 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:06:11 UTC+3

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:39 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, 26 April 2019 20:16:19 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> That's a move that's not available to you - you cannot reference >> "evolut

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 12:21 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, 26 April 2019 17:27:48 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> >> >> The original question was asking for an explanation of how this

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Friday, 26 April 2019 16:14:07 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> >> >> You really can't see the difference between the way a cochlea

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Thanks for reminding me. I didn't see them. > > On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:15:41 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:03 AM 'Cosmin

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-25 Thread Terren Suydam
Cosmin: do you have any answers to the questions below? On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:15 AM Terren Suydam wrote: > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:03 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> For this you don't even need idealism. You ca

Re: for Cosmin

2019-04-24 Thread Terren Suydam
uences for subjective experience. We could go through a million examples, including brain damage, drugs, brain tumors, Alzheimers, genetic defects. Should we just throw all those explanatory mechanisms away? > On Tuesday, 23 April 2019 22:19:32 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> &

for Cosmin

2019-04-23 Thread Terren Suydam
Some people who were born deaf have been given cochlear implants, which give them the ability to hear for the first time . For them, this is new qualia they've never experienced. But it's only possible because of a technical device interfacing with

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-23 Thread Terren Suydam
an agenda beyond that. Perhaps if I got the sense that his ideas were worth exploring further I'd engage more of my own ideas. On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 6:14 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 20 Apr 2019, at 01:15, Terren Suydam wrote: > > 1) I'm not sure I can make sense of the term 'influe

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

2019-04-22 Thread Terren Suydam
How can you assert that access is eliminated when the brain doesn't exist? In order for that to make sense, you're presupposing a role for the brain in one's consciousness. On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 4:57 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Then why

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-22 Thread Terren Suydam
Of course we have a choice. The primacy of consciousness may entail nothing more than an epistemological barrier - we may never be able to experience reality directly, or know its true form, but that doesn't force us to deny the possibility of an objective reality. If nothing else it forces us to

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-22 Thread Terren Suydam
and contexts > give birth to meaning/qualia. This way, God gets to know himself. Is the > only way. > > On Monday, 22 April 2019 15:48:32 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> So to summarize: >> >>- We lose: causality, determinism, prediction, and any hope of >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-22 Thread Terren Suydam
should anyone take your theory seriously when it means jettisoning science? What's the payoff? On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 4:46 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On Monday, 22 April 2019 07:41:14 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> 1

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-21 Thread Terren Suydam
the minds of the consciousnesses whose competition creates reality. 3) Also, other consciousnesses want me to die... right? On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 4:41 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On Saturday, 20 April 2019 02:15:40 UTC+3, Ter

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-19 Thread Terren Suydam
s how I view the issues raised: > > On Friday, 19 April 2019 23:41:40 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Hey Cosmin, >> >> What is the mechanism by which consciousness acts in a top down manner on >> and influences electrons and presumably other particles? How

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-04-19 Thread Terren Suydam
Hey Cosmin, What is the mechanism by which consciousness acts in a top down manner on and influences electrons and presumably other particles? How does that causal link manifest? Some other questions: Given that electrons don't really exist by your account, what stops the seemingly inevitably

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-21 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:13 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:56 AM Terren Suydam > wrote: > >> >> How do you square the multiverse concept with what Bruno has asserted in >> the past - that the physics experienced by universal numbe

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-21 Thread Terren Suydam
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:35 PM Jason Resch wrote: > We have no evidence nor reason to presume that we should be in a position > to see everything that exists. In fact, we already know that not to be the > case. We know we can't see what lays beyond the cosmological horizon, for > example. > >

Re: The most accurate clock ever

2018-12-04 Thread Terren Suydam
Given the Earth has a liquid core, is there any chance that turbulence in the core would move the center of gravity around by some minute amount, but large enough to throw off measurements of such tiny differences? On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 9:29 AM John Clark wrote: > In yesterday's issue of the

Re: The Many Incarnations of Bruno

2018-08-21 Thread Terren Suydam
I'm fairly surprised you're not more sympathetic to Bruno's ideas in light of this. What could it mean for a universe to split if the physical is primary? I'm sympathetic to AG's revulsion of the universe splitting into infinite branches. The one thing that makes MWI palatable to me is the idea

Re: Disclosure Project

2018-03-07 Thread Terren Suydam
t; > > On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 8:33:39 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Speaking for myself (and I'm guessing others) - I could care less. I care >> enough to respond to this, but only because I find this style of >> participation to be annoying as fuck. Nobod

Re: Disclosure Project

2018-03-07 Thread Terren Suydam
Speaking for myself (and I'm guessing others) - I could care less. I care enough to respond to this, but only because I find this style of participation to be annoying as fuck. Nobody is going to take your bait. I'm guessing you know that, so this amounts to a bluff. Put up or shut up. > *But,

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-12 Thread Terren Suydam
On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 9:30 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> Introspection for the win. >> ​ ​ >> Introspection and theories. Go

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-10 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:16 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > ​> ​ >> That's a theory, not a fact. >> > > ​A brain is not a theory. > Identif

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-10 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:45 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> >>>> ​>>​ >>>> ​ >>>> What's an example of a mind th

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-09 Thread Terren Suydam
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:24 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> What's an example of a mind that *is* a system of parts working together? >> > >

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-09 Thread Terren Suydam
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:08 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> ​>> ​ >>> ​I did not asked for a goddam theory, I asked for an example, an >>> example of

Re: Will computationalism be refuted?

2017-10-09 Thread Terren Suydam
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:28 PM, John Clark wrote: > ​I did not asked for a goddam theory, I asked for an example, an example > of a mind that does not involve a system of parts working together. And you > can provide no such example because none exists. > > How do you know?

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

2017-10-04 Thread Terren Suydam
On Oct 4, 2017 8:36 AM, "Telmo Menezes" <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote: Hi Terren, On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote: > I would suggest that if the brain was split at birth, the appearance that > there were two persons in

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

2017-10-03 Thread Terren Suydam
I would suggest that if the brain was split at birth, the appearance that there were two persons inhabiting the same body would be harder to avoid. It would be like conjoined twins. Due however to the fact that the brain is split in people who've already formed their identity - and assuming that

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-29 Thread Terren Suydam
Oh, don't be so humble. You did good today. On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:23 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> There's one stream of consciousnes

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-29 Thread Terren Suydam
me though, you did all the work! I'm glad that's over! On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:02 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​ >>> ​>> ​ >>> Then

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-29 Thread Terren Suydam
> > ​Then why can't anybody *ever* tell me if that ​ > one stream of consciousness > ​ is in Moscow or Washington?​ > Congratulations, you just discovered the first-person indeterminacy. I'll get the champagne. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-28 Thread Terren Suydam
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:04 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​>> ​ >>> ​Then which *ONE* out of that infinite number is ​

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-27 Thread Terren Suydam
y at the >> same time. >> > > ​I don't know about Mr. You but ​ > Terren Suydam > ​ can ​ > experience more than one city at the same time > ​ if there are ​ > Terren Suydam > ​ duplicating machines. > Objectively, yes. Experientially, no. > >

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-27 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:35 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​ >>> ​>> ​ >>> The expectations of what will happen will change from person

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:30 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> So the expectation of anyone who enters a duplicator would be > > > ​The expecta

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:04 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> In this situation, does the copy that opens his eyes in Barcelona only

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

2017-09-26 Thread Terren Suydam
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:14 AM, John Clark wrote: > ​> ​ >> But before we continue, I need to be sure we agree that from your >> first-person perspective, when it comes to making decisions based on some >> future state, you only have the contents of your mind to work

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