Re: Altered states of consciousness

Brent: right on! It all seems to me that we have no fitting meanings (whatver) of memory, identity, forgetting, recalling and the entire vocabulary we apply to things unknown. We only think so. The fact that Bruno puts equationally expressed formulations (numbers) to it does not make it more meani

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > 2009/4/4 Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> The probability that I go from state A to state B is given by the >> "number" of computations going from A to B. >> The problem with amnesic teleportation, that is teleportation with >> partial amnesia in the reconstituted person, i

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/4/4 Bruno Marchal wrote: > The probability that I go from state A to state B is given by the > "number" of computations going from A to B. > The problem with amnesic teleportation, that is teleportation with > partial amnesia in the reconstituted person, is that it introduce a > fuzziness o

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/4/4 Brent Meeker : >> I have been using the term "memories" to include more than just long >> term memories. For example, I have a feeling of "being me" which >> persists from moment to moment. Even though I can't put this feeling >> into words, I would know immediately if something happens

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Brent, I read this discussion and 'try' not to get involved (never succeed). * Ourselves w/wout our memories? what else? These terms come from the ancient religious fable about a 'soul' - the person in the faith-domain. Even the old Indians made 'reincarnation' hazy without memories and the only it

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 02 Apr 2009, at 13:23, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > 2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal : > >>> I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses >>> all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going >>> down the no memory loss path. >> >> At which point? Also, why

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > 2009/4/3 Brent Meeker : > > >> But if you're going to derive physics from consciousness you need to >> explain what connects across the gap - why is it still "you". I >> appreciate that part of the answer is memories, although Bruno seems to >> think they are iness

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/4/3 Brent Meeker : > But if you're going to derive physics from consciousness you need to > explain what connects across the gap - why is it still "you".  I > appreciate that part of the answer is memories, although Bruno seems to > think they are inessential.  But even if they are part of t

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > 2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal : > > >>> I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses >>> all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going >>> down the no memory loss path. >>> >> At which point? Also, why is it that we din

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal : >> I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses >> all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going >> down the no memory loss path. > > At which point? Also, why is it that we din't survive them to the > continuation where we d

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 01 Apr 2009, at 12:39, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > 2009/4/1 Bruno Marchal : > >>> A >>> historian could come along and argue for one reason and another that >>> the Middle Ages should not be considered to have ended until the >>> year >>> 1800, and although we might disagree with him we

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 31 Mar 2009, at 19:06, Brent Meeker wrote: > Yet they assume we are our bodies; otherwise duplicating the body > wouldn't duplicate the self. We just bet on a level such that the self is incarnate in a digital way by the body. > Suppose the duplication were performed > this way. You

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 01 Apr 2009, at 11:30, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal > Hello Quentin, > > Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit : > > >> >> >> 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal >>> >>> On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> Hi, 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal >>>

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/4/1 Bruno Marchal : >> A >> historian could come along and argue for one reason and another that >> the Middle Ages should not be considered to have ended until the year >> 1800, and although we might disagree with him we can't say that he is >> wrong in the same way he would be wrong if he

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal > Hello Quentin, > > Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit : > > > > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > > On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Hi, > > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > > Hi Kelly, and others, > > > Well, thanks for your report. Did you

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Bruno Marchal wrote: > Hello Quentin, > > Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit : > >> >> >> 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> >>> >>> On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> Hi, 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> > > H

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 31 Mar 2009, at 12:34, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > 2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal : > >>> It does indeed present conceptual difficulties. The problem is that >>> our notion of personal identity is dependent on the world in which >>> we >>> evolved, where these duplication experiments don't happ

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Hello Quentin, Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit : > > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal >> >> On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal Hi Kelly, and others, Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Le 30-mars-09, à 22:05, Kelly a écrit : > >> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually >> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know >> only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. > > I used this liquid "extract" stuff. Very good! >

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal : >> It does indeed present conceptual difficulties. The problem is that >> our notion of personal identity is dependent on the world in which we >> evolved, where these duplication experiments don't happen. The >> conceptual difficulties vanish if we say that there is no

Re: Altered states of consciousness

> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually > last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know > only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I used this liquid "extract" stuff. You hold it in your mouth for several minutes to get it into you

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Stathis: (in your text): ...or an unrelated person's consciousness...??? I agree with you when you say: losing all memories erases your personality (consciousnessless state) - but where do you pick that 'unrelted person's one, which also can only based on that 'unrelated person's' memory etc.

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> > > > On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > >> >> >> Hi Kelly, and others, >> >> Well, thanks for your rep

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 30 Mar 2009, at 14:02, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > >> 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> Hi Kelly, and others, >>> >>> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually >>> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > Hi, > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > >> >> Hi Kelly, and others, >> >> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually >> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know >> on

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 30 Mar 2009, at 18:23, Brent Meeker wrote: > > Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Hi Kelly, and others, >> >> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually >> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I >> know >> only one case of an experience lasting 20 mi

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > Hi, > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > Hi Kelly, and others, > > Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually > last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know > only one case of an experience lasting 2

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 30 Mar 2009, at 14:02, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Hi Kelly, and others, >> >> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually >> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I >> know >> only one case of an exp

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Bruno Marchal wrote: > Hi Kelly, and others, > > Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually > last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know > only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found > your experience interesting.

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Hi, 2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal > > Hi Kelly, and others, > > Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually > last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know > only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found > your experience inter

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Hi Kelly, and others, > > Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually > last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know > only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found > your experience int

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Hi Kelly, and others, Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found your experience interesting. You can consult and discuss your

Re: Altered states of consciousness

I tried Salvia for the first time yesterday. Very similar to dreaming, but more intense, with a lot more sounds. At first I thought, "Nothing's happening". Then I thought, "I seem to be about to slide sidewise...I need to stop". Then, I was sitting somewhere...in a tilled field I think, and I

Re: Altered states of consciousness

t is a person. I guess you mean "lucid". I am not lucid > in normal dreams, and usually I remain lucid in most "altered state of > consciousness" (natural or medication induced). > > Have a good day, > > Bruno > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 28/03/2009, at 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Some hallucinogens go even further than this, and introduce an >> element >> of amnesia for semantic and episodic memories, such that users report >> the experience of "forgetting that I had taken a drug, that I was >> human, >> or even w

Re: Altered states of consciousness

ning, must also be able to explain not only "typical" > consciousness > but also the quantitative and qualitative nature of altered states of > consciousness. These altered states may be arrived at in a variety of > ways (meditation, religious practices, psychoactive substances)

Re: Altered states of consciousness

owledge. Respectfully John M On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Kim Jones wrote: > > > On 23/03/2009, at 7:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > And why does plant constructs altered states of consciousness > > molecules? In my opinion it has all to do with the incredibly co

Re: Altered states of consciousness

22, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > Hi Johnathan, Kim, Stathis > > > I agree with you Johnathan. Scientists learn a lot from extreme cases, > and altered states of consciousness is worth to study, even to > understand better what is a "normal" (i

Re: Altered states of consciousness

On 23/03/2009, at 7:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > And why does plant constructs altered states of consciousness > molecules? In my opinion it has all to do with the incredibly complex > relationships that plant have with animals, in general, and insects in > particular. Many pl

Re: Altered states of consciousness

arn a lot from extreme cases, > and altered states of consciousness is worth to study, even to > understand better what is a "normal" (if that exists) states of > consciousness. > > Now remember that our brain seems to generate already by itself a > numerous of differe

Re: Altered states of consciousness

Hi Johnathan, Kim, Stathis I agree with you Johnathan. Scientists learn a lot from extreme cases, and altered states of consciousness is worth to study, even to understand better what is a "normal" (if that exists) states of consciousness. Now remember that our brain seems t