[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen drpetersutphen@... wrote: What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. OK, take a look at this; http://www.nrk.no/hurtigruten/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. yeah, I don't remember a word of it either, and that's after hundreds of hours of tapes, reading his books, etc. It's a cyberstalking thang, Jim. :-) I just used a phrase that I'd heard from many TMers who had grown concerned that because thoughts mean release of stress, does lack of thoughts indicate no progress in the release of stress? The two non-TM teachers harping on the phrase are merely doing the a.m.t. thang of trying to nitpick to discredit someone they don't like. It's just how things are done over there. You'll get used to it. :-) So Judy came over to AMT, biding her time, contributed a few articles that had nothing to do with you in order to give everyone a false sense of who she was, then pounced when you least expected? Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? I stalked you here also? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah but I never said what he is alluding to, that an absence of thoughts is indicative of a lack of progress during TM. I'm not sure where he got the idea, but it wasn't from me. In my reply above I was just agreeing with peter that I've not heard MMY say anything regarding this either. Nor have I. I *have*, however, heard it from TMers I was checking or working with at residence courses. I've had meditators in checking express *concern* that they're transcending all the time...does this mean I'm not releasing any stress? My original point was merely that the strong TM dogma that thoughts mean that some- thing good is happening *can* be interpreted by some to mean that thoughts are actually to be desired in meditation. Some traditions don't believe this, that's all. As I originally said, they believe that whether or not one experiences a lot of thoughts during meditation is *completely* within the control of the meditator, and since in their view samadhi is a potentially more valuable way to spend one's time in meditation than thoughts, why waste time in thought. What's THEIR take on the ole kill the Buddha thing? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? Mentioned only because someone (I don't know who) asked. I don't know why that person asked. Perhaps they noticed what I have, that on Internet TM-related forums often the people who are most agressive about defending Maharishi and what he teaches have neither met him nor taught. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? Mentioned only because someone (I don't know who) asked. I don't know why that person asked. Perhaps they noticed what I have, that on Internet TM-related forums often the people who are most agressive about defending Maharishi and what he teaches have neither met him nor taught. Actually, I think it was YOUR comments that evoked the question, not Judy's or mine. Of course, perhaps your comments were seen as mainstream TM theory while ours were obviously the non-TM teacher's. BTW, how long has it been since you practiced TM? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? Mentioned only because someone (I don't know who) asked. I don't know why that person asked. Perhaps they noticed what I have, that on Internet TM-related forums often the people who are most agressive about defending Maharishi and what he teaches have neither met him nor taught. Actually, I think it was YOUR comments that evoked the question, not Judy's or mine. Of course, perhaps your comments were seen as mainstream TM theory while ours were obviously the non-TM teacher's. BTW, how long has it been since you practiced TM? I've explained what I meant by what I said. I don't feel the need to do so again just because you're feeling particularly OCD today. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? Mentioned only because someone (I don't know who) asked. I don't know why that person asked. Perhaps they noticed what I have, that on Internet TM-related forums often the people who are most agressive about defending Maharishi and what he teaches have neither met him nor taught. Actually, I think it was YOUR comments that evoked the question, not Judy's or mine. Of course, perhaps your comments were seen as mainstream TM theory while ours were obviously the non-TM teacher's. BTW, how long has it been since you practiced TM? I've explained what I meant by what I said. I don't feel the need to do so again just because you're feeling particularly OCD today. :-) another SOPKB (samhita of pot, kettle, black) moment To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah but I never said what he is alluding to, that an absence of thoughts is indicative of a lack of progress during TM. I'm not sure where he got the idea, but it wasn't from me. In my reply above I was just agreeing with peter that I've not heard MMY say anything regarding this either. Nor have I. I *have*, however, heard it from TMers I was checking or working with at residence courses. I've had meditators in checking express *concern* that they're transcending all the time...does this mean I'm not releasing any stress? The phrase in its original context: For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, CONVINCED that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of 'progress,' this might not be an admirable thing. (emphasis added) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. yeah, I don't remember a word of it either, and that's after hundreds of hours of tapes, reading his books, etc. It's a cyberstalking thang, Jim. :-) I just used a phrase that I'd heard from many TMers who had grown concerned that because thoughts mean release of stress, does lack of thoughts indicate no progress in the release of stress? The two non-TM teachers harping on the phrase are merely doing the a.m.t. thang of trying to nitpick to discredit someone they don't like. It's just how things are done over there. You'll get used to it. :-) So Judy came over to AMT, biding her time, contributed a few (I think you mean over to FFL...) articles that had nothing to do with you in order to give everyone a false sense of who she was, then pounced when you least expected? LOL! Note once again that Barry *encouraged* alt.m.t participants to join FFL. This is now the third (or fourth?) time he has repeated the cyberstalking misrepresentation. Who is the other non-TM teacher? Moi? I stalked you here also? Actually in the context of Peter's question, the other non-TM teacher is Vaj. It's funny that nobody seems to have noticed what Barry said until I questioned it and Vaj then quoted my question after deleting my quote of Barry's post. Then all of a sudden it's You can't be TM teachers if you think this is what MMY says! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] It's a cyberstalking thang, Jim. :-) I just used a phrase that I'd heard from many TMers who had grown concerned that because thoughts mean release of stress, does lack of thoughts indicate no progress in the release of stress? The phrase in its original context: For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, CONVINCED that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of 'progress,' this might not be an admirable thing. (emphasis added) There you go with the cyberstalking thing, Judy. Oh, I'm a cyberstalker, I'm OK... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The two non-TM teachers harping on the phrase are merely doing the a.m.t. thang of trying to nitpick to discredit someone they don't like. It's just how things are done over there. You'll get used to it. :-) Unc oh joy To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Yes, Grasshopper. One day this knowledge will be yours too. Not bloody likely. :-) Those who have bought into TM being the highest teaching would never lower themselves to try anything else. If they're right, they stick with the highest teach- ing forever, and avoid lesser techniques. If they're wrong, they stick with the first thing they learned and never learn anything more. The question would seem to be whether the sense of elitism is jutified, whether TM really is the highest teaching or merely the ABCs of spiritual practice, being *sold* as the highest teaching. If it IS the highest teaching, good deal... the practitioner has avoided wasting time with other techniques and teachings. If it's not, the practitioner spends an entire lifetime learning the alphabet while others have moved on to enjoying literature. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. It's a different paradigm, Jim. In other traditions, there is NOT the TM idea that thoughts in meditation are valuable and an indication that something good is happening, and that stress is being released. In fact, the paradigm is completely the opposite, that thoughts in meditation are an indication that the practitioner is simply being lazy, and has not learned to focus his or her attention. In such a tradition, the more time spent in samadhi, the better. Having practiced both styles of meditation, I can attest to the fact that using certain styles of focused or concentrative meditation, one can pretty much enter samadhi at will and have it last for twenty minutes, an hour, or several hours, with no thoughts present. For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, convinced that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of progress, this might not be an admirable thing. For me, it's more than admirable, and preferable. If I'm gonna meditate, I'd rather spend most if not all of my time in meditation in the transcendent. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
Thank you for answering. Innggegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One usually receives a transmission into the practice. It usually involves coming up with a series of numbers on the mala after using a specific mantra and then interpreting that pattern. On Jun 25, 2005, at 3:15 PM, Ingegerd wrote: How can you use a mala for divination? Ingegerd A mala blessed by your teacher is great support for practice. Plus you can use it for divination. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Yes, Grasshopper. One day this knowledge will be yours too. Not bloody likely. :-) Those who have bought into TM being the highest teaching would never lower themselves to try anything else. If they're right, they stick with the highest teach- ing forever, and avoid lesser techniques. If they're wrong, they stick with the first thing they learned and never learn anything more. The question would seem to be whether the sense of elitism is jutified, whether TM really is the highest teaching or merely the ABCs of spiritual practice, being *sold* as the highest teaching. If it IS the highest teaching, good deal... the practitioner has avoided wasting time with other techniques and teachings. If it's not, the practitioner spends an entire lifetime learning the alphabet while others have moved on to enjoying literature. Hell, my life isn't smooth enough to boost my flying time. Why should I care about more advanced stuff? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It's a different paradigm, Jim. In other traditions, there is NOT the TM idea that thoughts in meditation are valuable and an indication that something good is happening, and that stress is being released. In fact, the paradigm is completely the opposite, that thoughts in meditation are an indication that the practitioner is simply being lazy, and has not learned to focus his or her attention. In such a tradition, the more time spent in samadhi, the better. On the first part of my TTC which was being run by Al Burns (?) he mentioned, in another context, about MMY coming up with his theory of stress release. I remember feeling completly unsettled because I had just assumed that MMY's explanation was some sort of ancient explaination that was commonly understood by all spiritual practioners. Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It's a different paradigm, Jim. In other traditions, there is NOT the TM idea that thoughts in meditation are valuable and an indication that something good is happening, and that stress is being released. In fact, the paradigm is completely the opposite, that thoughts in meditation are an indication that the practitioner is simply being lazy, and has not learned to focus his or her attention. In such a tradition, the more time spent in samadhi, the better. On the first part of my TTC which was being run by Al Burns (?) he mentioned, in another context, about MMY coming up with his theory of stress release. I remember feeling completly unsettled because I had just assumed that MMY's explanation was some sort of ancient explaination that was commonly understood by all spiritual practioners. Does this invalidate either theory or practice or both? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Not bloody likely. :-) Those who have bought into TM being the highest teaching would never lower themselves to try anything else. If they're right, they stick with the highest teach- ing forever, and avoid lesser techniques. If they're wrong, they stick with the first thing they learned and never learn anything more. The question would seem to be whether the sense of elitism is jutified, whether TM really is the highest teaching or merely the ABCs of spiritual practice, being *sold* as the highest teaching. If it IS the highest teaching, good deal... the practitioner has avoided wasting time with other I see MMY as promulgating the idea that TM is the highest teaching primarily to get us to be as commited as possible to a sadhana. He wanted us to dig as deep as possible. Unfortunately a side effect of that, in some people, is that when the original intent behind starting the practice has not been relized for decades, they cling to the belief that they are on the highest path and deny their own experience that, for them,this particular sadhana has ended. This leads to such laziness in their practice because what guides them now is the comfort of belief rather than actual experience. And now they drift, clinging to the raft of a belief system claiming it is a racing boat. Chalk up one more victory for Mara: ensnared by the mind again. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Not bloody likely. :-) Those who have bought into TM being the highest teaching would never lower themselves to try anything else. If they're right, they stick with the highest teach- ing forever, and avoid lesser techniques. If they're wrong, they stick with the first thing they learned and never learn anything more. The question would seem to be whether the sense of elitism is jutified, whether TM really is the highest teaching or merely the ABCs of spiritual practice, being *sold* as the highest teaching. If it IS the highest teaching, good deal... the practitioner has avoided wasting time with other I see MMY as promulgating the idea that TM is the highest teaching primarily to get us to be as commited as possible to a sadhana. He wanted us to dig as deep as possible. Unfortunately a side effect of that, in some people, is that when the original intent behind starting the practice has not been relized for decades, they cling to the belief that they are on the highest path and deny their own experience that, for them,this particular sadhana has ended. This leads to such laziness in their practice because what guides them now is the comfort of belief rather than actual experience. And now they drift, clinging to the raft of a belief system claiming it is a racing boat. Chalk up one more victory for Mara: ensnared by the mind again. Do I resemble that remark? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Having practiced both styles of meditation, I can attest to the fact that using certain styles of focused or concentrative meditation, one can pretty much enter samadhi at will and have it last for twenty minutes, an hour, or several hours, with no thoughts present. For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, convinced that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of progress, this might not be an admirable thing. Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? The dogma asserts that rest leads to repair-activity with associated thoughts. Samadhi is held to be the deepest rest, leading to the mostprofound repairs, and eventually the most interesting thoughts... He knows that, but likes to twist things for rhetoric's sake or simply forgot in this case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Not bloody likely. :-) Those who have bought into TM being the highest teaching would never lower themselves to try anything else. If they're right, they stick with the highest teach- ing forever, and avoid lesser techniques. If they're wrong, they stick with the first thing they learned and never learn anything more. The question would seem to be whether the sense of elitism is jutified, whether TM really is the highest teaching or merely the ABCs of spiritual practice, being *sold* as the highest teaching. If it IS the highest teaching, good deal... the practitioner has avoided wasting time with other I see MMY as promulgating the idea that TM is the highest teaching primarily to get us to be as commited as possible to a sadhana. He wanted us to dig as deep as possible. Unfortunately a side effect of that, in some people, is that when the original intent behind starting the practice has not been relized for decades, they cling to the belief that they are on the highest path and deny their own experience that, for them,this particular sadhana has ended. This leads to such laziness in their practice because what guides them now is the comfort of belief rather than actual experience. And now they drift, clinging to the raft of a belief system claiming it is a racing boat. Chalk up one more victory for Mara: ensnared by the mind again. Do I resemble that remark? Oh, I think we all resemble that remark at times! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? Okay, now I understand the EEG thing. Yeah, you got documentation of this? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. I tend to agree with you about TM and torpor; this is part of why I quit the practice in 1982, the larger part being there was nowhere to go anymore. This latter understanding makes me wonder a bit about your statement about transcending ... with no breaks. From where I stand now anyhow, the belief that one can be without thought is as absurd as the belief that one can be without silence. It seems more to me that the two are utterly the same, and any belief otherwise would be the result of being stunned by an apparent contrast in subtleties. Of course I may well be delusional. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see MMY as promulgating the idea that TM is the highest teaching primarily to get us to be as commited as possible to a sadhana. I'm curious, do you happen to know which spiritual group promulgates the idea that it's the second highest teaching? Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see MMY as promulgating the idea that TM is the highest teaching primarily to get us to be as commited as possible to a sadhana. I'm curious, do you happen to know which spiritual group promulgates the idea that it's the second highest teaching? That's hilarious, Alex. The answer is no. However, I have run across a few that do *not* promulgate the idea that they are the best. It's like a breath of fresh air... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
I'm curious, do you happen to know which spiritual group promulgatesthe idea that it's the second highest teaching?AlexROF -My extrapolation would be. Which of these highs is the highest? Of religions I want the heroin. The only problem is is there also a huge jones, and what does the monkey get? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
It's true that TM has always put me to sleep. So as someone suggested, back at MIU I used to always take a nap before program, and since then I have ritually taken pseudoephedrine or drunk coffee before practice. The sleep during meditation was ok to a point, but then otherwise it was painful. My wife learned TM and quit after one week because all it did was put her to sleep and she would wake up witha headache. I also stopped doing TM for many years for many reasons over the years. But I always found it a quick was to get still inside as well. Now I do it for a little bit and then when it seems to have accomplished its purification of my mind then I go into other practices which sem to have a better effect upon my mind and body as far as sense of wholeness. - Original Message - From: Rory Goff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, "Be easy to us with gentle effort." And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the "effortless" stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. I tend to agree with you about TM and torpor; this is part of why I quit the practice in 1982, the larger part being there was nowhere to "go" anymore. This latter understanding makes me wonder a bit about your statement about "transcending ... with no breaks." From where I stand now anyhow, the belief that one can "be" without thought is as absurd as the belief that one can "be" without silence.It seems more to me that the two are utterly the same, and any belief otherwise would be the result of being stunned by an apparent contrast in subtleties. Of course I may well be delusional. :-)To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious, do you happen to know which spiritual group promulgates the idea that it's the second highest teaching? Alex Funny. But ... John the Baptist -- preparing the way. Even today, some new agey groups appear to be saying similar things. A yoga asanas teacher -- this gives yo a good foundation so you can do higher work To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny. But ... John the Baptist -- preparing the way. snip Do we actually know John the Baptist's take on the whole thing? I am only aware of written material from a sect that (apparently and apparently successfully) wished to marginalize him in favor of their own candidate. I have no authoritative knowledge of J the B. You should have asked Charlie - he, among others, proclaimed to be J the B. I believe. Or was it M being J the B, with SBS being JC. Too many stories for me. (Charlie did proclaim to also be Alexander the Great.) (btw, do people in the lands he ravaged call him the great?) But your point is true with all surviving religions and political power sources. Thus, its always prudent I fidn to try to see history through the opposing / losing / non-surviving sides. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no authoritative knowledge of J the B. You should have asked Charlie - he, among others, proclaimed to be J the B. I believe. Or was it M being J the B, with SBS being JC. Too many stories for me. (Charlie did proclaim to also be Alexander the Great.) (btw, do people in the lands he ravaged call him the great?) No, I think their official title for him was Alexander the Sumbitch :-) But your point is true with all surviving religions and political power sources. Thus, its always prudent I fidn to try to see history through the opposing / losing / non-surviving sides. Yeah, I seem to recall that the Freemasons revere J the B quite a bit (holy day of June 24 and so on), while references to Jesus are noticeably absent (IIRC). I wonder if the original Jewish/Templar/Masons were at least in part an offshoot of J the B's original sect? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. It's a different paradigm, Jim. In other traditions, there is NOT the TM idea that thoughts in meditation are valuable and an indication that something good is happening, and that stress is being released. In fact, the paradigm is completely the opposite, that thoughts in meditation are an indication that the practitioner is simply being lazy, and has not learned to focus his or her attention. In such a tradition, the more time spent in samadhi, the better. Having practiced both styles of meditation, I can attest to the fact that using certain styles of focused or concentrative meditation, one can pretty much enter samadhi at will and have it last for twenty minutes, an hour, or several hours, with no thoughts present. For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, convinced that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of progress, this might not be an admirable thing. For me, it's more than admirable, and preferable. If I'm gonna meditate, I'd rather spend most if not all of my time in meditation in the transcendent. Unc ok, my question to Vaj had more to do with questioning the practical benefit of sitting as you say in samadhi for however long. I understand the differences and benefits of both types of meditation and practice them. I just wanted to see if Vaj derived any practical benefit from no thoughts meditation. (He does, and gave a great answer) I agree that the way thoughts are treated in either type of moditation is different, though to say the blank mind meditation is more admirable or preferable to mantra meditation is like saying I find apples more admirable than oranges, which doesn't make much sense to me. One thing I've always appreciated with TM is the transcendental surprises it offers from time to time. In other words my mind expands with it in unpredictable ways, and I like that. To each their own though. Its all one brand of toothpaste or the other to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 26, 2005, at 11:27 AM, Rory Goff wrote: I tend to agree with you about TM and torpor; this is part of why I quit the practice in 1982, the larger part being there was nowhere to go anymore. This latter understanding makes me wonder a bit about your statement about transcending ... with no breaks. From where I stand now anyhow, the belief that one can be without thought is as absurd as the belief that one can be without silence. It seems more to me that the two are utterly the same, and any belief otherwise would be the result of being stunned by an apparent contrast in subtleties. Of course I may well be delusional. :-) I think you bring up a wonderful point and a great experiential insight. My feeling is that you can dissolve negative thought patterns to an extent that you can simply rest in the Natural Mind--thoughts may come, thoughts may go--but even this apparent duality can be experienced as non-dual then one can truly begin to experience how samsara and perfection arise together. Typically once one works on calmness at such a high level, if one is following a graduated path where you go in stages, the next form of meditation would be being able to integrate with thought *without sacrificing emptiness*. Even in total quiescence thoughts which arise are not sustained, nor do they proliferate; rather they vanish of their own accord, much like small clouds on a really blue sky day. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 26, 2005, at 12:41 AM, sparaig wrote: Did you get to see the EEG of Ken Wilber I posted a while back? Yes I did. Do you want me to ask EEG experts to comment on what it shows? Already shared it with one, thanks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
Many thanks for your reply, Vaj. Yes, this all sounds pretty familiar, except for your phrase such a high level -- here is certainly not high; I feel exactly the same as before I ever started on any path. I mean *complete* ordinariness; ignorance even -- the only real difference being a simple contentment and appreciation of the perfection here and now. No path remains that I am aware of: samsara is perfection; emptiness isn't sacrificed in thought (or vice versa); I cannot appreciate the two as two anymore. On the other hand, I do feel even better when I appreciate more -- become even more focussed and incarnate and attentive -- so maybe there is yet in store a depth and breadth of growth or me I have perhaps scarcely begun to enliven. Meditation (as I understand the term) seems to have no real bearing on this; appreciation appears to work best (mostly) eyes-open, or via simple listening, or the like. In a similar manner, the stages of bodhisattvahood you provided didn't ring too clearly; only the buddha one felt like home or me, but I have attained nothing; am no more a buddha than my beloved pig-dung. No less, either, of course. :-) At that we all appear to be pretty much identical in our perfect buddhahood, maybe with some of us occasionally enjoying -- or at least indulging in -- a momentary bit of more or less resistance here or there. Namaste, R. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you bring up a wonderful point and a great experiential insight. My feeling is that you can dissolve negative thought patterns to an extent that you can simply rest in the Natural Mind--thoughts may come, thoughts may go--but even this apparent duality can be experienced as non-dual then one can truly begin to experience how samsara and perfection arise together. Typically once one works on calmness at such a high level, if one is following a graduated path where you go in stages, the next form of meditation would be being able to integrate with thought *without sacrificing emptiness*. Even in total quiescence thoughts which arise are not sustained, nor do they proliferate; rather they vanish of their own accord, much like small clouds on a really blue sky day. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] ok, my question to Vaj had more to do with questioning the practical benefit of sitting as you say in samadhi for however long. I understand the differences and benefits of both types of meditation and practice them. I just wanted to see if Vaj derived any practical benefit from no thoughts meditation. (He does, and gave a great answer) I agree that the way thoughts are treated in either type of moditation is different, though to say the blank mind meditation is more admirable or preferable to mantra meditation is like saying I find apples more admirable than oranges, which doesn't make much sense to me. One thing I've always appreciated with TM is the transcendental surprises it offers from time to time. In other words my mind expands with it in unpredictable ways, and I like that. To each their own though. Its all one brand of toothpaste or the other to me. Personally, I question that this is samadhi in the first place, but partly that's because I've accepted MMY's model of samadhi-as-rest. How does one know that one is in samadhi? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 12:41 AM, sparaig wrote: Did you get to see the EEG of Ken Wilber I posted a while back? Yes I did. Do you want me to ask EEG experts to comment on what it shows? Already shared it with one, thanks. Really? What were their qualifications and what did they think, both of what he did, and the equipment he was using? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Never heard that one either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. yeah, I don't remember a word of it either, and that's after hundreds of hours of tapes, reading his books, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. Actually, Peter, I was *asking*, not spouting. And you've just confirmed what I had suspected. The spouting was Barry's (Vaj, for some odd reason, snipped what I had quoted of Barry's post); note in particular the last sentence: Having practiced both styles of meditation, I can attest to the fact that using certain styles of focused or concentrative meditation, one can pretty much enter samadhi at will and have it last for twenty minutes, an hour, or several hours, with no thoughts present. For the dyed-in-the-wool TMer, convinced that the absence of thoughts indicates an absence of progress, this might not be an admirable thing. Barry is a former TM teacher. (I never heard the gap gets bigger and bigger either, for that matter, but it seems Vaj thinks he did.) I believe you saw Barry's post, but in your response you snipped this part as well. Strange, eh? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. Only took checker-training and SCI, myself, but it certainly doesn't sound TMish. In fact, while its an interesting thing that PC has some physiological correlates, the existence or non-existence of PC episodes during TM is held to not be a measure of sucessfulpractice, even in the long run. MMY says specifically that you can meditate every day of your life without ever having a clear PC episode until your final pre-CC meditation and that this scenario is just as valid and useful as having PC dozens of times a session. Making PC a goal during TM would raise the possibility of convincing yourself that you are getting lots of PC episodes due to trying or intent and instead are NOT having PC, but only an experience that feels like PC. This, I take as being the TM equivalent of If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. Which raises an interesting question about the four hour samadhi during more advanced meditation claim that some have fielded... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2005, at 9:59 AM, authfriend wrote: Wow, I never heard that the absence of thoughts in TM indicates an absence of progress. Is that something MMY says that I've somehow managed to miss? Yeah, whatever happened to the gap gets bigger and bigger? Ask Barry; he's a former TM teacher. Maybe that's what he taught his students. Sure is news to me. What in the hell is all this distorted TM teaching? Are you guys that are spouting this TM teachers? Because MMY never, ever mentioned this stuff in the context of explaining experiences during meditation. yeah, I don't remember a word of it either, and that's after hundreds of hours of tapes, reading his books, etc. It's a cyberstalking thang, Jim. :-) I just used a phrase that I'd heard from many TMers who had grown concerned that because thoughts mean release of stress, does lack of thoughts indicate no progress in the release of stress? The two non-TM teachers harping on the phrase are merely doing the a.m.t. thang of trying to nitpick to discredit someone they don't like. It's just how things are done over there. You'll get used to it. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah but I never said what he is alluding to, that an absence of thoughts is indicative of a lack of progress during TM. I'm not sure where he got the idea, but it wasn't from me. In my reply above I was just agreeing with peter that I've not heard MMY say anything regarding this either. Nor have I. I *have*, however, heard it from TMers I was checking or working with at residence courses. I've had meditators in checking express *concern* that they're transcending all the time...does this mean I'm not releasing any stress? My original point was merely that the strong TM dogma that thoughts mean that some- thing good is happening *can* be interpreted by some to mean that thoughts are actually to be desired in meditation. Some traditions don't believe this, that's all. As I originally said, they believe that whether or not one experiences a lot of thoughts during meditation is *completely* within the control of the meditator, and since in their view samadhi is a potentially more valuable way to spend one's time in meditation than thoughts, why waste time in thought. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 9:49 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be interesting to hear others experiences in the area of TM and laxity. Well, aside from the advice given that people who find themselves sleeping a lot during TM should sleep more BEFORE TM? BTW, I go through periods where I sleep a lot during program, and periods where I don't seem to sleep much. What is your explanation for that other than MMY's, that the condition of my nervous system is different from time to time? On the Santa Barbara ATR (winter 71-72) I told M that I fell asleep in most of my meditations. He said Some physical weakness. Try to remove the cause. On my 6 month course (Courcheval, Spring-Fall 1975) M said that he was going to try to turn us into yogis in 6 months. Two things he recommended were cold baths and sitting up without back support in meditation. I think both of these, especially the latter, were prescriptions to combat laxity. (He also said we were in a race or a contest to see who could purify the fastest, and to help us he had us fasting and trying all sorts of healers brought in from around Europe). I think the no effort thing is most relevant to grosser levels of experience, i.e., new meditators. At subtle levels effort also isn't appropriate, but attentiveness is. The advanced technique where you focus on the heart area is certainly a form of attentiveness. I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. It's said that if torpor is not conquered, ones intelligence will decrease. Now there'd be an interesting scientific study! :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 12:35 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. Amma emphasizes mindfulness too. This always puzzled me because I'm so indoctrinated with the natural tendency of the mind idea, but in light of my own experience, it makes sense. If I'm tired, sometimes it's best to just lean back and let myself doze off, rather than struggling to stay alert. Meditation is better after a nap. But if I'm not tired, it's best to sit up straight and be attentive. Otherwise meditation is a muddle and a waste of time. Mark Meredith, if he's reading this, has commented that for many, and maybe for him, TM was often a lazy, unproductive sort of daydreaming. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 9:49 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be interesting to hear others experiences in the area of TM and laxity. Well, aside from the advice given that people who find themselves sleeping a lot during TM should sleep more BEFORE TM? BTW, I go through periods where I sleep a lot during program, and periods where I don't seem to sleep much. What is your explanation for that other than MMY's, that the condition of my nervous system is different from time to time? On the Santa Barbara ATR (winter 71-72) I told M that I fell asleep in most of my meditations. He said Some physical weakness. Try to remove the cause. On my 6 month course (Courcheval, Spring-Fall 1975) M said that he was going to try to turn us into yogis in 6 months. Two things he recommended were cold baths and sitting up without back support in meditation. I think both of these, especially the latter, were prescriptions to combat laxity. (He also said we were in a race or a contest to see who could purify the fastest, and to help us he had us fasting and trying all sorts of healers brought in from around Europe). I think the no effort thing is most relevant to grosser levels of experience, i.e., new meditators. At subtle levels effort also isn't appropriate, but attentiveness is. The advanced technique where you focus on the heart area is certainly a form of attentiveness. I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. Interesting. My recollection is that focus is not what I was told to do in any advanced technique I learned, and that making a distinction between gentle attentiveness and allowing the mind to just mess around during TM is a false dichotomy. Messing around is just as valid an experience as any other during TM, as long as one is following the instructions (such as they are). I also recall MMY saying that transcendence or any other experience, including clarity, during TM wasn't the goal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
Vaj wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. It's said that if torpor is not conquered, ones intelligence will decrease. Now there'd be an interesting scientific study! :-) Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 12:35 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. Amma emphasizes mindfulness too. This always puzzled me because I'm so indoctrinated with the natural tendency of the mind idea, but in light of my own experience, it makes sense. If I'm tired, sometimes it's best to just lean back and let myself doze off, rather than struggling to stay alert. Meditation is better after a nap. But if I'm not tired, it's best to sit up straight and be attentive. Otherwise meditation is a muddle and a waste of time. Mark Meredith, if he's reading this, has commented that for many, and maybe for him, TM was often a lazy, unproductive sort of daydreaming. sitting upright (if comfortable) during TM was always encouraged IIRC. If your definition of Gentle effort is to start meditation in an upright position (if possible), and to resume the upright position when you find that you have fallen over and have been asleep for a while, I'll go along with it... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. It's said that if torpor is not conquered, ones intelligence will decrease. Now there'd be an interesting scientific study! :-) Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 1:53 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Amma emphasizes mindfulness too. This always puzzled me because I'm so indoctrinated with the natural tendency of the mind idea, but in light of my own experience, it makes sense. If I'm tired, sometimes it's best to just lean back and let myself doze off, rather than struggling to stay alert. Meditation is better after a nap. But if I'm not tired, it's best to sit up straight and be attentive. Otherwise meditation is a muddle and a waste of time. In Shamatha we talk about ascertaining consciousness which refers to a continuum of attention. Correct meditation is when you have predominantly moments of ascertaining consciousness as compared to moments non-ascertaining consciousness. Non-ascertainment is likened to trying to view a picture by a flickering candle--in the flickering light, you can't quite make it out. It's a lot like falling asleep reading something in dim lighting. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Bhairitu wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. I couldn't agree more. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 1:11 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sitting upright (if comfortable) during TM was always encouraged IIRC. If your definition of Gentle effort is to start meditation in an upright position (if possible), and to resume the upright position when you find that you have fallen over and have been asleep for a while, I'll go along with it... If I start falling asleep I'll lean back rather than fight it. For me, to do otherwise would be to strain. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:11 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sitting upright (if comfortable) during TM was always encouraged IIRC. If your definition of Gentle effort is to start meditation in an upright position (if possible), and to resume the upright position when you find that you have fallen over and have been asleep for a while, I'll go along with it... If I start falling asleep I'll lean back rather than fight it. For me, to do otherwise would be to strain. Sure, but I was talking about when you woke up... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. During TM? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Rick Archer wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. And of course he used to give malas to students (his old ones). A mala blessed by your teacher is great support for practice. Plus you can use it for divination. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
How can you use a mala for divination? Ingegerd A mala blessed by your teacher is great support for practice. Plus you can use it for divination. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. Rick, did MMY say this about Guru Dev (about him advising others to do mala-japa)? For sure Guru Dev recommended 'mantra-japa' i.e. mental repetition of a mantra, but scouring through his published satsangs there is very little reference to the use of mala. However, there is no doubt that Guru Dev himself practised mala-japa. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. It's said that if torpor is not conquered, ones intelligence will decrease. Now there'd be an interesting scientific study! :-) Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... Yea, well you don't tell beginners to sit in siddhasana too but that was a recommendation for Sidhi techniques (at least on some courses). Actually in the meditation technique I teach if the beginning student can sit in siddhasana on the floor it is highly recommended and we also have them do a brief simple pranayam before meditating. The initiation is also accompanied by shaktipat. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 2:00 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. During TM? No. just going from bead to bead with his thumb. Obviously an old habit. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 2:19 PM, Premanand Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. Rick, did MMY say this about Guru Dev (about him advising others to do mala-japa)? For sure Guru Dev recommended 'mantra-japa' i.e. mental repetition of a mantra, but scouring through his published satsangs there is very little reference to the use of mala. However, there is no doubt that Guru Dev himself practised mala-japa. I remember a story where Guru Dev sent his chelas to another guru to get a japa mantra from him. Heard that one? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 2:00 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. During TM? No. just going from bead to bead with his thumb. Obviously an old habit. Sure, but notice several people here think its a good thing to add to *TM* practice... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I also find that some gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a big difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, Be easy to us with gentle effort. And indeed this very simple attentiveness--or mindfulness--is one of the key antidotes to laxity and torpor. But of course this is not taught as part of TM, it's sad Rick that this is buried in some old tape and not integrated into practice. I don't know about you, but I've met a good number of meditators who ended up being drained by such torpor. Laxity is believed to be a intentional mental process where the meditative object (in this case Self or mantra) is not perceived with vividness. Once meditation reaches the effortless stage (where one simply sits and can transcend for at least an hour at a time with no breaks) this tends to disappear as delusion is dissolved. Without mindfulness and some forcefulness its hard if not impossible to get to the deeper levels of meditation. I always liked the analogy of Shakyamuni of having the lute strings 'not to tight or not to loose'; that's just how mindfulness is. It's said that if torpor is not conquered, ones intelligence will decrease. Now there'd be an interesting scientific study! :-) Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Conclusion: So what? I don't understand the point about torpor and laxity. If you are saying don't give the responsibility for one's spiritual evolution to someone else, I agree wholeheartedly, and have been caught in that trap a couple of times. Beyond that, there is nothing inherently deficient about the TM technique. It does exactly what it is advertised to do: expands the container of one's consciousness. What we choose to do with that expanding container is entirely up to us. To say that there isn't enough guidance given to those who learn TM just isn't true. You are painting with a very very broad brush, my friend. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj wrote: [...] Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... Yea, well you don't tell beginners to sit in siddhasana too but that was a recommendation for Sidhi techniques (at least on some courses). Actually in the meditation technique I teach if the beginning student can sit in siddhasana on the floor it is highly recommended and we also have them do a brief simple pranayam before meditating. The initiation is also accompanied by shaktipat. But using beads isn't TM... And there's a difference between a position for sitting which might help you stay alert better, and some deliberate *activity* during TM. And there are many things you can do before TM to enhance TM, including asanas, pranayama, getting enough sleep, eating regularly, going to the bathroom if needed, etc. I personally, always try to take MAK tablets before I start. That's not part of TM, either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
on 6/25/05 3:02 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. just going from bead to bead with his thumb. Obviously an old habit. Sure, but notice several people here think its a good thing to add to *TM* practice... I wouldn't add it *to* the practice but it may be a good adjunct for some. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj wrote: [...] Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... Yea, well you don't tell beginners to sit in siddhasana too but that was a recommendation for Sidhi techniques (at least on some courses). Actually in the meditation technique I teach if the beginning student can sit in siddhasana on the floor it is highly recommended and we also have them do a brief simple pranayam before meditating. The initiation is also accompanied by shaktipat. But using beads isn't TM... And there's a difference between a position for sitting which might help you stay alert better, and some deliberate *activity* during TM. And there are many things you can do before TM to enhance TM, including asanas, pranayama, getting enough sleep, eating regularly, going to the bathroom if needed, etc. I personally, always try to take MAK tablets before I start. That's not part of TM, either. Kirk probably takes a shot of bourbon and snorts a line before doing his TMand has great experiences! ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. **END** If you go to Paul Mason's site -- Guru Dev Satsang -- there is a photo of Guru Dev doing japa. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 2:19 PM, Premanand Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/25/05 1:12 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doing japa with a mala or counting with the fingers often helps mindfulness and increases the intensity of the meditation. But is not TM... No, but I've seen Maharishi practice it many times, and Guru Dev used to advise the practice. Rick, did MMY say this about Guru Dev (about him advising others to do mala-japa)? For sure Guru Dev recommended 'mantra-japa' i.e. mental repetition of a mantra, but scouring through his published satsangs there is very little reference to the use of mala. However, there is no doubt that Guru Dev himself practised mala- japa. I remember a story where Guru Dev sent his chelas to another guru to get a japa mantra from him. Heard that one? Nope, but I'd like to, , However, he did recommend mantra-japa and advised people to find a sadguru,(sadguru = n.mas. a good tutor, God.) who would give them the correct mantra. It is interesting that he did not enlist his 'staff' to do this work of initiation. He must have believed that the initiation from elsewhere would be sufficient?! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
One usually receives a transmission into the practice. It usually involves coming up with a series of numbers on the mala after using a specific mantra and then interpreting that pattern. On Jun 25, 2005, at 3:15 PM, Ingegerd wrote: How can you use a mala for divination? Ingegerd A mala blessed by your teacher is great support for practice. Plus you can use it for divination. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Yes, Grasshopper. One day this knowledge will be yours too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 9:42 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? Well yes, the text themselves, but more important are good oral instructions. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 9:42 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? Well yes, the text themselves, but more important are good oral instructions. I meant proof that this is what happens... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 10:02 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. Once one finally attains this there is rather dramatic shift in the nervous system. Physical bliss and mental bliss do arise, but once that rapture fades then total stability can arise. Even befor ethis though one will have attained taming and pacification of the mind, this has a great benefit to the environment, as Patanjali notes. We talked about this before when we talked about Thurman's _Inner Revolution_. A noticeable benefit will be that entire complexes of negative thought and destructive emotion are simply gone. The emotional afflictions will begin to dissolve. Meditation on the Clear light becomes much easier. There would be a long list of benefits if you wanted to list such things but really gaining the ability to pacify and tame the minds of others is probably the finest thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
On Jun 25, 2005, at 10:19 PM, sparaig wrote: Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? Well yes, the text themselves, but more important are good oral instructions. I meant proof that this is what happens... Yeah besides being a long known and practiced phenomenon in many of the eastern schools, there has been some scientific research going on with this for quite some time. The Dalai Lama has been meeting with leading scientists for years on subjects like these. As we discussed recently there there is also a study going on where a group of (I believe) 30 people who will practice this over a year in a boundaried retreat--the exception being is that they undergo PET scanning and other neurological testing, etc. So it will essentially be a detailed study under scientific conditions. If I am not mistaken the three month pilot study is under way or about to happen. Did you get to see the EEG of Ken Wilber I posted a while back? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 10:02 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. Once one finally attains this there is rather dramatic shift in the nervous system. Physical bliss and mental bliss do arise, but once that rapture fades then total stability can arise. Even befor ethis though one will have attained taming and pacification of the mind, this has a great benefit to the environment, as Patanjali notes. We talked about this before when we talked about Thurman's _Inner Revolution_. A noticeable benefit will be that entire complexes of negative thought and destructive emotion are simply gone. The emotional afflictions will begin to dissolve. Meditation on the Clear light becomes much easier. There would be a long list of benefits if you wanted to list such things but really gaining the ability to pacify and tame the minds of others is probably the finest thing. sounds great! Makes sense. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 10:19 PM, sparaig wrote: Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. And you have documentation of this? Well yes, the text themselves, but more important are good oral instructions. I meant proof that this is what happens... Yeah besides being a long known and practiced phenomenon in many of the eastern schools, there has been some scientific research going on with this for quite some time. The Dalai Lama has been meeting with leading scientists for years on subjects like these. As we discussed recently there there is also a study going on where a group of (I believe) 30 people who will practice this over a year in a boundaried retreat-- the exception being is that they undergo PET scanning and other neurological testing, etc. So it will essentially be a detailed study under scientific conditions. If I am not mistaken the three month pilot study is under way or about to happen. I've yet to hear of any such study, sponsored by the Dali Lama or anyone else. Did you get to see the EEG of Ken Wilber I posted a while back? Yes I did. Do you want me to ask EEG experts to comment on what it shows? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 10:02 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:20 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 25, 2005, at 4:06 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Vaj, reading over your words, you make TM sound so difficult, arduous even, if done correctly. I initially understood it to be a stress release technique, and still do it as such. I had a job recently where I awakened at 4:30am for a 60 mile commute. I was always exhausted on my return each day and religiously fell asleep during every evening meditation. Wasn't talking about TM but about a similar meditation practice that goes about 5 stages beyond TM-style meditation. Ah, I see. So in its beginning stages, its easy, but in the more advanced stages, it gets difficult? Not quite that simple :-) In the final stages it is possible to transcend for four hours at a time, effortlessly. One sits down, decides how long they will meditate and finishes when they intend to. sounds very blissful, more so than I can possibly imagine. But why would you want to do that? What is the motivation, the benefit? That I don't get. Once one finally attains this there is rather dramatic shift in the nervous system. Physical bliss and mental bliss do arise, but once that rapture fades then total stability can arise. Even befor ethis though one will have attained taming and pacification of the mind, this has a great benefit to the environment, as Patanjali notes. We talked about this before when we talked about Thurman's _Inner Revolution_. A noticeable benefit will be that entire complexes of negative thought and destructive emotion are simply gone. The emotional afflictions will begin to dissolve. Meditation on the Clear light becomes much easier. There would be a long list of benefits if you wanted to list such things but really gaining the ability to pacify and tame the minds of others is probably the finest thing. Which ability you show quite amply. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
