gt;
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aerobatics using flight gear and JSBSim
>
> Very cool. I guess you survived, or you would not be writing this. ;-)
>
> Did the spin seem to enter and exit normally?
>
> Jon
>
gt; To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aerobatics using flight gear and JSBSim
>
>
> Looks like a spin, does not it ? ;)
>
> That is with stock JSBSim FDM ...
>
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Looks like a spin, does not it ? ;)
That is with stock JSBSim FDM ... <>
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Hi,
didn't get the Sukhoi yet. I only have a FG 0.9.9 installation, hope
it'll work with that one!I'd sure want to give it a try. My dad has
flown the Su, so I'd have him take a look at it as well.
Ciao
TH
flying.toaster wrote:
> Did you get the Sukhoi ?
>
> If you want I can send you a slig
Did you get the Sukhoi ?
If you want I can send you a slightly updated model...
rgrds
Enrique
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Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> If I understand it correctly it should be possible to simulate the
>> effects of downwash by creating a function of flap-settings and airspeed
>> (and possible alpha), no?
>
> Maybe. I haven't thought about that much, yet. Try it. ;-)
I did try something like this, but
> Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> >> Isn't downwash just a matter of a high angel-of-attack?
>
> > When air passes over the wing, an incremental downward redirection is
> > induced, so the horizontal tail sees a different airflow than the wing.
>
> Oh, downwash of the aircraft itself. I was thinking becau
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> Isn't downwash just a matter of a high angel-of-attack?
> When air passes over the wing, an incremental downward redirection is
> induced, so the horizontal tail sees a different airflow than the wing.
Oh, downwash of the aircraft itself. I was thinking because of wind but
> Isn't downwash just a matter of a high angel-of-attack?
>
> Erik
When air passes over the wing, an incremental downward redirection is
induced, so the horizontal tail sees a different airflow than the wing.
Jon
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Fli
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:54:39 +0200, Erik wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> >> ..another big deal to dig up: Downwash.
> >
> > There may end up being some things that don't get specifically
> > addressed, but must be defined by the user with functions and
> > tables.
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> ..another big deal to dig up: Downwash.
>
> There may end up being some things that don't get specifically addressed,
> but must be defined by the user with functions and tables. What I'd like
> most to do is to provide all the basic building blocks needed so that the
> us
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:45:22 -0500, Jon wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > ..another big deal to dig up: Downwash.
>
> There may end up being some things that don't get specifically
> addressed, but must be defined by the user with functions and tables.
> What I'd like most to do is to
> ..another big deal to dig up: Downwash.
>
> --
> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
There may end up being some things that don't get specifically addressed,
but must be defined by the user with functions and tables. What I'd like
most to do is to provide all the basic b
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:08:25 -0500, Jon wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hmm, so how would JSBSim model low speed control reversals like
> > this? Could it be done in a way that would also be able to model
> > transonic control reversals that are caused by shockwaves near the
> > control
> Hmm, so how would JSBSim model low speed control reversals like this?
> Could it be done in a way that would also be able to model transonic
> control reversals that are caused by shockwaves near the control surface
> hinge?
>
> Josh
I've got several ideas in mind. One is that the wing could be
Adam Dershowitz wrote:
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:23 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>
>>> Maybe said a different way, imagine your wing is riding on the
>>> edge of
>>> the amount of air it can push down without stalling. Now you deflect
>>> the aileron down and try to push the air down even more.
>> St
Adam Dershowitz wrote:
>
> I don't believe so. Remember that a snap roll is a type of spin. So
We are probably both right. If the wing were to be split into several
sections, the effect that you describe would be approximated (a-la
X-plane), or you could add another table which could be much
On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Josh Babcock wrote:
> Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> Snap roll:
>>
>> This is indeed the recipe for a snap roll: starting from a speed
>> slightly
>> above the stall, apply a sudden yaw with the rudder, apply
>> opposite aileron,
>> and pull back on the yoke. SNAP! --- O
On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:23 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> Maybe said a different way, imagine your wing is riding on the
>> edge of
>> the amount of air it can push down without stalling. Now you deflect
>> the aileron down and try to push the air down even more.
>
> Stupid me. I forgot something.
Just came across this video:
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/aphs/what_up_dog.wmv
Are we ready to model this kind of aerobatics in FG?
Andras
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Hey guys short comment on that:
In manned aeroatics (or flying in general) that's the reason for not
using aileron at high AOA' and low airspeed. The airplane is close to a
stall and if you apply aileron (a little is often enough) you increase
the AOA of one wing beyond stall and the airplane w
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 19:34 -0500, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> > All this to say that it looks very good.
> >
> > Now for a few questions :
> > - Are both half wings treated separately in JSBSim ? That can be
> > important for snap rolls, even though I do them day in day out now
>
> Yes, I know. The
> If you look at the cross section of the wing (through a point that
> includes the aileron) when you deflect the aileron down (TED), you are
> increasing the angle of that "average" zero incidence line relative to
> the wind stream.
I think what it does is to increase the effective *camber* and t
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> Snap roll:
>
> This is indeed the recipe for a snap roll: starting from a speed slightly
> above the stall, apply a sudden yaw with the rudder, apply opposite aileron,
> and pull back on the yoke. SNAP! --- One wing stalls and the plane rolls
> over.
>
> [I liked the clever
> Maybe said a different way, imagine your wing is riding on the edge of
> the amount of air it can push down without stalling. Now you deflect
> the aileron down and try to push the air down even more.
Stupid me. I forgot something. OK, deflecting an aileron is like deflecting
a flap. If you loo
> BUT! Had I known then what I know now and steered with the rudder
> rather than the ailerons, it probably wouldn't have been nearly such a
> close call.
There are a few very spectacular inadvertent stalls and spins and
suchlike in this video as well. It's actually quite funny to watch:
ht
Disclaimer: my degree is in computer science, I only walk through the
aerospace engineering department on they way to my driving simulator
lab. :-)
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>> Also note that if your left wing is dropping due to being on the edge of
>> a stall and you try to compensate with right ail
> This would be hard to model using lookup tables, but it might be possible
> using JSBSim functions and a table or tables, together. Could be fun. I need
> to think about this one. The first idea that comes to mind is that if the
> aircraft speed minus the yaw rate times some characteristic later
> Partially right:
>
> http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/snaps.html
>
> Rudder is involved.
There are at least three ways of performing a snap roll that I know
of, and it depends a lot on the kind of plane which one is best. I'm
told that on manned aerobats, you usually pull elevator first (or
push,
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:44 PM
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aerobatics using flight gear
> and JSBSim
>
>
> Sorry about that, prematurely hit send. Here is the link:
>
> Also note that if your left wing is dropping due to being on the edge of
> a stall and you try to compensate with right aileron,
"Right aileron" as in trying to roll to the right?
> that will cause the left side aileron to deflect down.
Left aileron TED follows from right aileron TEU. The pilo
Curt,
> I can do this in many of my R/C planes. Just pull back the elevator to
Ah, how come I haven't until now realized that you're into model
aircraft...? What a great collection of models you have, too.
> First I accelerate to full speed and pull the aircraft into a vertical
> climb, then
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> Partially right:
>
> http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/snaps.html
>
> Rudder is involved.
>
The link you quote describes a situation where you get into a snap
roll/spin when you don't want to. I had something similar happen when I
was looping my R/C cub and tried to tighten
> > > My understanding of a snap roll is that at some speed (probably well
> > > above traditional "stall" speed) you command a large nose up
> > > elevator deflection -- if you have enough elevator authority you
> > > can quickly force the wing to a high alpha so that the wing stalls
> > > (at a
I came across this discussion about adding a new open source FDM to
X-Plane, using CFD methods to get really really high fidelity models.
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:32 -0500, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> Snap roll:
>
> This is indeed the recipe for a snap roll: starting from a speed slightly
> above the
There's nothing there about snap rolls. Can you copy / paste
here?
Jon
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of
Hugo VincentSent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:44
PMTo: FlightGear developers discussionsSubject: Re:
[Flightgear-deve
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:22:05 -0500, Jon wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> > > But, I'm also wondering if there is a way to obtain the same
> > > effect with a three-dimensional table. Can someone give a detailed
> > > describption of a snap roll?
> >
> > My underst
> This would be hard to model using lookup tables, but it might be possible
> using JSBSim functions and a table or tables, together. Could be
> fun. I need
> to think about this one. The first idea that comes to mind is that if the
> aircraft speed minus the yaw rate times some characteristic late
Sorry about that, prematurely hit send. Here is the link:http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=13050&st=0Might be interesting, or maybe even relevant to modelling things like snap rolls in JSBSim.
Regards,Hugo Vincent.On 6/15/06, Hugo Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I came across this di
Snap roll:
This is indeed the recipe for a snap roll: starting from a speed slightly
above the stall, apply a sudden yaw with the rudder, apply opposite aileron,
and pull back on the yoke. SNAP! --- One wing stalls and the plane rolls
over.
[I liked the clever use of the word, "recipe" with the p
> Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> > But, I'm also wondering if there is a way to obtain the same
> effect with a
> > three-dimensional table. Can someone give a detailed
> describption of a snap
> > roll?
> >
>
> My understanding of a snap roll is that at some speed (probably well
> above traditional
Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> But, I'm also wondering if there is a way to obtain the same effect with a
> three-dimensional table. Can someone give a detailed describption of a snap
> roll?
>
My understanding of a snap roll is that at some speed (probably well
above traditional "stall" speed) you co
> Using derivations very similar to those described by Jon in his
> latest paper, I have managed having my Su-26 alpha model do most
> of these figures :
>
> http://aerobatics.ws/acro_figures.html
>
> The ones that still are a little "dirty" for me are the tailslide
> and sided loops (the former be
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:12:31 +0200 (CEST), flying.toaster wrote in
message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Now for a few questions :
> - Are both half wings treated separately in JSBSim ?
..AFAIK, no, yasim yes.
..2 option for JSBSim, cut your Su-26 in 2, Su-26Left and Su-26Right,
or rewrite JSBSim w
Hey toaster :-),
I love your idea of trying to simulate aerobatics correctly and I'd want
to try to help you once you're able to release the first version. I'm
not too familiar with flightgear (I'm only using it as a flight data
display) so far (especially not JSBSim, can't help you with that),
Using derivations very similar to those described by Jon in his latest paper, I
have managed having my Su-26 alpha model do most of these figures :
http://aerobatics.ws/acro_figures.html
The ones that still are a little "dirty" for me are the tailslide and sided
loops (the former because I alw
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