Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Shaun, Yes, it is. Just about any fairly up to date text to speech application like TextAloud or Swift Talker will allow you to open and read a text document which has been tagged using xml or ssml speech tags and give you real time changes in speech as it reads. Its more natural that way. I've tried it with the Ivona 2 and Cepstral 5.2 voices and it works quite well. More importantly for us as gamers we can take greater control over how certain voices will react in a game. In a game like football you could conceivably change the announcers voice on the fly to add a bit more realism to the speech output like increase the volume when the announcer yells touchdown or add more emphasis to a specific play announcement. You can add special effects tags to fit the current ambiance. So I think SAPI 5.3 and SAPI 5.4 have a lot going for them once more voices and applications support the updates. Cheers! On 11/14/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: wow interactive books and other things. really rocks that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi, Unfortunately, I don't know any more than I've already said. Yes, there was a SAPI 4 compatible version of Eloquence available, but I'm not sure if it is still being sold/licensed. Last I heard Kurzweil 3000 still ships withe the generic SAPI 4 version of Eloquence, but it has been sometime since I have actually checked out that software. What I do know for sure is that the company that owns Eloquence---I want to say it is Speech Works---has changed the license agreement for newer versions of Eloquence which prohibit version 6 of being used with any application not specifically licensed for the product. Most accessible applications such as Jaws, Window-Eyes, Openbook, all have specific licenses with Speech Works to support and use Eloquence. So I don't know where Speech Works stands on the older generic SAPI 4 version that came with IBM Viavoice etc. My guess is if you have it you can use it, but keep in mind its a 32-bit app and uses SAPI 4, not SAPI 5, so usage on Windos 7 and beyond might be problematic. I haven't tried it myself so am not too clear on backwards compatibility with SAPI 4 on Windows 7. Cheers! On 11/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, I have a question about this. I thought it was legally possible to buy a SAPI 5 version of Eloquence instead of only having boundled versions like JAWS or other programs? And what about ViaVoice TTS from IBM, which is essentially the same than Eloquence, at least concerning the voices themselves... Do you know any more about this messed up business? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Mentioning sapi 4, it's pronunciation is quite off. A couple notable things: On is pronounced in, off is pronounced of. Also, if I remember rightly, it was much less fluid than sapi 5. I can confirm as well, that (at least the sapi four installation that comes with the APH products) does not work on windows seven. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:15:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features Hi, Unfortunately, I don't know any more than I've already said. Yes, there was a SAPI 4 compatible version of Eloquence available, but I'm not sure if it is still being sold/licensed. Last I heard Kurzweil 3000 still ships withe the generic SAPI 4 version of Eloquence, but it has been sometime since I have actually checked out that software. What I do know for sure is that the company that owns Eloquence---I want to say it is Speech Works---has changed the license agreement for newer versions of Eloquence which prohibit version 6 of being used with any application not specifically licensed for the product. Most accessible applications such as Jaws, Window-Eyes, Openbook, all have specific licenses with Speech Works to support and use Eloquence. So I don't know where Speech Works stands on the older generic SAPI 4 version that came with IBM Viavoice etc. My guess is if you have it you can use it, but keep in mind its a 32-bit app and uses SAPI 4, not SAPI 5, so usage on Windos 7 and beyond might be problematic. I haven't tried it myself so am not too clear on backwards compatibility with SAPI 4 on Windows 7. Cheers! On 11/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, I have a question about this. I thought it was legally possible to buy a SAPI 5 version of Eloquence instead of only having boundled versions like JAWS or other programs? And what about ViaVoice TTS from IBM, which is essentially the same than Eloquence, at least concerning the voices themselves... Do you know any more about this messed up business? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Charles, Perhaps, but its just another way to attempt to get the customer to pay for the same product over and over again. You buy Jaws the price of Eloquence is included in the sale. If you buy Openbook that too has another license for Eloquence meaning you just purchased the same sinth twice. If you go and buy the speech enabled version of Magic you just paid for the sinth for a third time.I think Speech Works is making quite a lot of money on that speech engine, because state agencies are all too happy to buy Jaws, Openbook, Magic, etc for their clients and pay for the same speech engine over and over again. Not that they really have a choice. Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, etc include the cost of the license for the voices as part of the sale so everyone ends up paying for it weather they want to or not. So I don't think they are losing any money or sleep over their end user license. Plus when you get down to it Speech Works happens to have a product that is well liked. A lot of people I know agree with me that the voices for Eloquence aren't that great, but they love the low memory footprint, the fact it is fast and responsive, and it usually is pretty clear when it is speeded up. So even if GW Micro, Freedom Scientific, etc offered a version of their products without Eloquence I'm not sure people would go for it since the RealSpeak Direct voices, for example, sound better but are a lot more sluggish for day to day use. So many customers might end up willing to pay a little extra for Eloquence anyway regardless of the user license. I myself am on a tight budget so my wife and I have cut way back on spending. Especially, in the matter of software. Now that NVDA is out, has become fairly decent, I've gotten use to using that for day to day work rather than blowing a few hundred on SMA agreements for Jaws or Window-Eyes. Frankly I can't afford it any more, and I'm not sorry to give up Eloquence myself. For me its not worth it to continue feeding companies like Speech Works money to maintain their proprietary licenses, because its not fair to me or anyone else to continue paying for the same software over and over again. Cheers! On 11/12/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Makes sense, and they are screwing themselves, aren't they? They would sell more if they were more flexible, I would think. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi, I'm honestly not surprised. Remember SAPI 4 was originally written for Windows 98 era operating systems and software. That's like 13 years ago. In terms of computer software its ancient. Microsoft's SAPI 5 API was a complete rewrite for Windows XP, and has been steadily upgraded along with the operating systems. The current version SAPI 5.4 ships as a core component of Windows 7, and is obviously the version we should be using for Windows 7 games and applications.There are a lot of low-level API changes such as ssml for tagging speech to insert natural pauses, changes in pitch, changes in volume, etc during speech output. For instance if someone writes a book and tags it with xml or ssml Microsoft Anna 5.4 will be able to act upon those instructions like raise the volume to yell or lower her voice to whisper as she is reading. Its rather cool some of the things you can do with the newer SAPI 5.3/5.4 voices on the fly. volume level='100' I am yelling! volume level ='50' I am wispering. I hope nobody hears me. pitch middle='5' I am really excited! pitch middle='-5' I am feeling board. Like I said that is really cool stuff. Anna isn't the best voice, but I noticed the new Cepstral 5.2 voices respond well to xml and ssml tagged documents. Callie does a pretty good job of simulating human speech when books etc are properly tagged and you read them using the Swift program that comes with the Cepstral 5.2 voices. So I don't know why anyone would really want to go back to SAPI 4 voices in the first place. As you said they weren't really that good over all, and compatibility has now become an issue on newer ops. Its time to move on to bigger and better things. Smile. On 11/14/11, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: Mentioning sapi 4, it's pronunciation is quite off. A couple notable things: On is pronounced in, off is pronounced of. Also, if I remember rightly, it was much less fluid than sapi 5. I can confirm as well, that (at least the sapi four installation that comes with the APH products) does not work on windows seven. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Thomas, I thought Speech Works did no longer exist, meaning that Eloquence was no part of Nuance or Scansoft. Furthermore I also thought at least the IBM versions of the voices were now also available as SAPI 5.1 versions at least, thus I thought the original Eloquence would also be available in some SAPI 5 form. But due to a general lack of easily available information I might be mistaken. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Actually tom, some of those sapi 5.4 things sound really quite nice, possibly the first positive change I've heard with windows 7 yet :D. Actually a friend of mine who had a degree in computer science was speculating about such tags back in 2003, and now of course ms have proved her right and done it. So, even if I will have to lose realspeak daniel (who according to nuance I probably shouldn't have reading sapi applications anyway), getting a new voice could actually give some bennifits too which is good. As to sapi four, the only game I ever saw which used sapi four was blind man's bluff. As I remember that game was less than steller, in fact I don't even think it was as good as acefire, so why would you want to use sapi four anyway? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
that is the reason I started with dolphin products. They don't push you to upgrade unless you need it. Upgrades have cost a lot but you get what you pay for. I got 2.0 first then 4.5 because of the new voice synth then 5.0 because of windows support. then 5.2 because of dcm. I stayed there for like 6 years and got 12 this year for win7 support, vocaliser support and well the free daisy reader was a big reason I purchaced that version. I remember getting jaws and then having to buy it again because of the fact I needed to run on a profesional os. With all its issues though eloquence is used everywhere, and the nuance one I use on my phone sounds a lot better than the jaws ones. We have espeak ofcause but some just don't like that even though its opensource. I have vocaliser which is like realspeak but some don't even like that and its sluggish, well on any loder system below duelcore that is on newer boxes it shouldn't be a major issue. At 02:37 p.m. 14/11/2011 -0500, you wrote: Hi Charles, Perhaps, but its just another way to attempt to get the customer to pay for the same product over and over again. You buy Jaws the price of Eloquence is included in the sale. If you buy Openbook that too has another license for Eloquence meaning you just purchased the same sinth twice. If you go and buy the speech enabled version of Magic you just paid for the sinth for a third time.I think Speech Works is making quite a lot of money on that speech engine, because state agencies are all too happy to buy Jaws, Openbook, Magic, etc for their clients and pay for the same speech engine over and over again. Not that they really have a choice. Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, etc include the cost of the license for the voices as part of the sale so everyone ends up paying for it weather they want to or not. So I don't think they are losing any money or sleep over their end user license. Plus when you get down to it Speech Works happens to have a product that is well liked. A lot of people I know agree with me that the voices for Eloquence aren't that great, but they love the low memory footprint, the fact it is fast and responsive, and it usually is pretty clear when it is speeded up. So even if GW Micro, Freedom Scientific, etc offered a version of their products without Eloquence I'm not sure people would go for it since the RealSpeak Direct voices, for example, sound better but are a lot more sluggish for day to day use. So many customers might end up willing to pay a little extra for Eloquence anyway regardless of the user license. I myself am on a tight budget so my wife and I have cut way back on spending. Especially, in the matter of software. Now that NVDA is out, has become fairly decent, I've gotten use to using that for day to day work rather than blowing a few hundred on SMA agreements for Jaws or Window-Eyes. Frankly I can't afford it any more, and I'm not sorry to give up Eloquence myself. For me its not worth it to continue feeding companies like Speech Works money to maintain their proprietary licenses, because its not fair to me or anyone else to continue paying for the same software over and over again. Cheers! On 11/12/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Makes sense, and they are screwing themselves, aren't they? They would sell more if they were more flexible, I would think. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
what supprises me is that there are more voices for sapi4 which sound quite good, some with effects. the ms sapi4 engines for example sound better than the sapi5 ones. And the ms ones have effects like hall, space, etc. There are also robot voices which sound rather cool. THere is good quality lh voices, eloquence, viavoice, etc. On sapi 5 its all gone a bit backwards, low quality voices are mostly crap or not liked. There are voices for win8 on the firums well a demo file on audiogames and they sound rather nice. Then again there are people that hate anna and I don't. At 02:59 p.m. 14/11/2011 -0500, you wrote: Hi, I'm honestly not surprised. Remember SAPI 4 was originally written for Windows 98 era operating systems and software. That's like 13 years ago. In terms of computer software its ancient. Microsoft's SAPI 5 API was a complete rewrite for Windows XP, and has been steadily upgraded along with the operating systems. The current version SAPI 5.4 ships as a core component of Windows 7, and is obviously the version we should be using for Windows 7 games and applications.There are a lot of low-level API changes such as ssml for tagging speech to insert natural pauses, changes in pitch, changes in volume, etc during speech output. For instance if someone writes a book and tags it with xml or ssml Microsoft Anna 5.4 will be able to act upon those instructions like raise the volume to yell or lower her voice to whisper as she is reading. Its rather cool some of the things you can do with the newer SAPI 5.3/5.4 voices on the fly. volume level='100' I am yelling! volume level ='50' I am wispering. I hope nobody hears me. pitch middle='5' I am really excited! pitch middle='-5' I am feeling board. Like I said that is really cool stuff. Anna isn't the best voice, but I noticed the new Cepstral 5.2 voices respond well to xml and ssml tagged documents. Callie does a pretty good job of simulating human speech when books etc are properly tagged and you read them using the Swift program that comes with the Cepstral 5.2 voices. So I don't know why anyone would really want to go back to SAPI 4 voices in the first place. As you said they weren't really that good over all, and compatibility has now become an issue on newer ops. Its time to move on to bigger and better things. Smile. On 11/14/11, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: Mentioning sapi 4, it's pronunciation is quite off. A couple notable things: On is pronounced in, off is pronounced of. Also, if I remember rightly, it was much less fluid than sapi 5. I can confirm as well, that (at least the sapi four installation that comes with the APH products) does not work on windows seven. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Michael, As I said I told you what I know. If what you say is true I haven't heard about it. Last I knew Eloquence was owned by Speech Works. If they are out of business etc that's news to me. I haven't seen a SAPI 5 compatible version of Eloquence, but that doesn't mean such a thing does not exist. Just I am unaware of it. Guess I'll have to do some research on the topic. On 11/14/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, I thought Speech Works did no longer exist, meaning that Eloquence was no part of Nuance or Scansoft. Furthermore I also thought at least the IBM versions of the voices were now also available as SAPI 5.1 versions at least, thus I thought the original Eloquence would also be available in some SAPI 5 form. But due to a general lack of easily available information I might be mistaken. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi, Oh, I wouldn't say that. There are decent SAPI 5 voices as well. They just don't come with Windows like the SAPI 4 voices did. The Cepstral voices, for example, have similar effects to make the voices sound robotic, add echo, etc so that feature is still available in SAPI 5. As I recall an application can add those special effects simply by providing SAPI 5 with the proper xml or ssml tags. Its just Microsoft decided not to have default special effects presets with the SAPI 5 versions of Mike, Mary, Sam, and Anna like they did for the SAPI 4 voices. So let's not blame SAPI 5 itself for not having feature x. Its there, but may or may not be active in voice x. Plus I've looked at the Windows 8 beta. The new SAPI 5 voices that come for the OS for Narrater are better than what comes with Vista and Windows 7. They are based on the SAPI 5.5 API which has some nifty extras for more specific control over speech output via ssml tags. Cheers! On 11/14/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: what supprises me is that there are more voices for sapi4 which sound quite good, some with effects. the ms sapi4 engines for example sound better than the sapi5 ones. And the ms ones have effects like hall, space, etc. There are also robot voices which sound rather cool. THere is good quality lh voices, eloquence, viavoice, etc. On sapi 5 its all gone a bit backwards, low quality voices are mostly crap or not liked. There are voices for win8 on the firums well a demo file on audiogames and they sound rather nice. Then again there are people that hate anna and I don't. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi, Yeah. Well, like I said, I think the ssml and xml tagging to force SAPI 5.4 compatible voices to make proper real time changes on the fly in documents very cool. You can even have it switch voices on the fly while reading a document too. The only problem is, of course, not every application has been updated to the new API so the ability to do that may very. Cheers! On 11/14/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Actually tom, some of those sapi 5.4 things sound really quite nice, possibly the first positive change I've heard with windows 7 yet :D. Actually a friend of mine who had a degree in computer science was speculating about such tags back in 2003, and now of course ms have proved her right and done it. So, even if I will have to lose realspeak daniel (who according to nuance I probably shouldn't have reading sapi applications anyway), getting a new voice could actually give some bennifits too which is good. As to sapi four, the only game I ever saw which used sapi four was blind man's bluff. As I remember that game was less than steller, in fact I don't even think it was as good as acefire, so why would you want to use sapi four anyway? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
You can add the effects with the Cepstral Tools program you get anytime you install aCepstral voice. It's basically the Cepstral version of Text Aloud and works best for creating Wav files using the Cepstral voices from what I noticed. I mean you can use them in Text Aloud but it seems more sluggish than it does with the Cepstral specific app. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features Hi, Oh, I wouldn't say that. There are decent SAPI 5 voices as well. They just don't come with Windows like the SAPI 4 voices did. The Cepstral voices, for example, have similar effects to make the voices sound robotic, add echo, etc so that feature is still available in SAPI 5. As I recall an application can add those special effects simply by providing SAPI 5 with the proper xml or ssml tags. Its just Microsoft decided not to have default special effects presets with the SAPI 5 versions of Mike, Mary, Sam, and Anna like they did for the SAPI 4 voices. So let's not blame SAPI 5 itself for not having feature x. Its there, but may or may not be active in voice x. Plus I've looked at the Windows 8 beta. The new SAPI 5 voices that come for the OS for Narrater are better than what comes with Vista and Windows 7. They are based on the SAPI 5.5 API which has some nifty extras for more specific control over speech output via ssml tags. Cheers! On 11/14/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: what supprises me is that there are more voices for sapi4 which sound quite good, some with effects. the ms sapi4 engines for example sound better than the sapi5 ones. And the ms ones have effects like hall, space, etc. There are also robot voices which sound rather cool. THere is good quality lh voices, eloquence, viavoice, etc. On sapi 5 its all gone a bit backwards, low quality voices are mostly crap or not liked. There are voices for win8 on the firums well a demo file on audiogames and they sound rather nice. Then again there are people that hate anna and I don't. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Bryan, Yes, agreed. Swift Talker does a better job with the Cepstral voices than TextAloud. Of course, its their product so it should work better. :D Cheers! On 11/14/11, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: You can add the effects with the Cepstral Tools program you get anytime you install aCepstral voice. It's basically the Cepstral version of Text Aloud and works best for creating Wav files using the Cepstral voices from what I noticed. I mean you can use them in Text Aloud but it seems more sluggish than it does with the Cepstral specific app. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
wow interactive books and other things. really rocks that. At 07:27 p.m. 14/11/2011 -0500, you wrote: Hi, Yeah. Well, like I said, I think the ssml and xml tagging to force SAPI 5.4 compatible voices to make proper real time changes on the fly in documents very cool. You can even have it switch voices on the fly while reading a document too. The only problem is, of course, not every application has been updated to the new API so the ability to do that may very. Cheers! On 11/14/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Actually tom, some of those sapi 5.4 things sound really quite nice, possibly the first positive change I've heard with windows 7 yet :D. Actually a friend of mine who had a degree in computer science was speculating about such tags back in 2003, and now of course ms have proved her right and done it. So, even if I will have to lose realspeak daniel (who according to nuance I probably shouldn't have reading sapi applications anyway), getting a new voice could actually give some bennifits too which is good. As to sapi four, the only game I ever saw which used sapi four was blind man's bluff. As I remember that game was less than steller, in fact I don't even think it was as good as acefire, so why would you want to use sapi four anyway? Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Charles, Yes, of course. Its perfectly legal to use Eloquence if it came a part of Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc through the screen reader's API because you are still using the product the TTS engine was licensed for. The problem with RealSpeak, Vocalizer, and Eloquence is they have exclusive licenses that prevent their use with applications that are not licensed to use that software. For instance, let's assume I wrote an Eloquence driver and then bundled Eloquence with my game. That would be illegal because I don't legally have a license to redistribute Eloquence with my product nor licensed the TTS engine for direct support. As I said Eloqunce has an exclusive license and technically every application requires its own licensed copy of Eloquence. The only way round that legally is to send text messages to Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc and let the screen reader speak text rather than use Eloquence directly. HTH On 11/11/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I'm confused. What if you have a game that uses your screen reader, which happens to be JAWS, which uses Eloquence as the speech? I would think that would be legal, wouldn't it? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Makes sense, and they are screwing themselves, aren't they? They would sell more if they were more flexible, I would think. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features Hi Charles, Yes, of course. Its perfectly legal to use Eloquence if it came a part of Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc through the screen reader's API because you are still using the product the TTS engine was licensed for. The problem with RealSpeak, Vocalizer, and Eloquence is they have exclusive licenses that prevent their use with applications that are not licensed to use that software. For instance, let's assume I wrote an Eloquence driver and then bundled Eloquence with my game. That would be illegal because I don't legally have a license to redistribute Eloquence with my product nor licensed the TTS engine for direct support. As I said Eloqunce has an exclusive license and technically every application requires its own licensed copy of Eloquence. The only way round that legally is to send text messages to Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc and let the screen reader speak text rather than use Eloquence directly. HTH On 11/11/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I'm confused. What if you have a game that uses your screen reader, which happens to be JAWS, which uses Eloquence as the speech? I would think that would be legal, wouldn't it? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
Hi Thomas, I have a question about this. I thought it was legally possible to buy a SAPI 5 version of Eloquence instead of only having boundled versions like JAWS or other programs? And what about ViaVoice TTS from IBM, which is essentially the same than Eloquence, at least concerning the voices themselves... Do you know any more about this messed up business? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] legalized speech - Re: Possible MOTA Features
I'm confused. What if you have a game that uses your screen reader, which happens to be JAWS, which uses Eloquence as the speech? I would think that would be legal, wouldn't it? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Possible MOTA Features Hi Quentin, I'm not really sure myself. Its tricky because the license for Eloquence 6 has changed from prior versions. For example, earlier versions of Eloquence that came with IBM Viavoice were built using Sapi 4, and was free to use with other Sapi 4 applications that supported Sapi 4. However, with version 6 Eloquence has become fairly proprietary in terms of its end user license agreement. However, if you are connecting to Eloquence via COM I don't think they can legally stop you from supporting the TTS engine since its using a common interface. What would be illegal is if you created a game and provided a copy of Eloquence with the game as you would illegally be redistributing the software, but just adding COM support for it in your speech API shouldn't be illegal if I got my facks straight. That's the problem with NVDA. Writing a speech driver for Eloquence is perfectly legal as far as I know, but NVDA can't ship the TTS engine with the screen reader legally because NVDA doesn't have a license to redistribute. That's my understanding of the problem with NVDA and Eloquence. HTH On 11/10/11, QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net wrote: Since the discussion has started and since someone talked about eloquence, I have a question: is it legal or definitely illegal to let a game, or more generally, a program, connect to eloquence directly ? I'm thinking on something I saw once some time ago: sapi-to-eloquence bridges, or script/plugins or little cheats existing for certain games that make eloquence speaking instead of sapi. Note that all these things have in common that they doesn't embed a copy of eloquence themselves, they generally only use it if it has been installed by another program (i.e. jaws of course, but also IBM home page reader, older softwares that still use IBM viavoice, etc.) I know that the discussion is difficult, for example the status of using eloquence with NVDA is not very clear... but I would like very much to have a clear answer about that topic, in order to be definitely fixed on what is allowed and what is not. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
