Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Elv1313 .
Ok, lots of email in the last few hours, lets recap a bit. 1. "Top" projects don't like GitLab issues because they are too simple. Can we try to make a comprehensive list of issues on a pad somewhere? Sa far, I see: 1.1 It doesn't allow custom combo boxes like BZ/RedMine which then forces manual

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 22:18:32 CEST Elv1313 . wrote: > Ok, lots of email in the last few hours, lets recap a bit. > > 1. "Top" projects don't like GitLab issues because they are too > simple. Can we try to make a comprehensive list of issues on a pad > somewhere? So far, I see: I did make a

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 20:42:31 CEST Martin Flöser wrote: > > Boud pretty much describes the problem large projects (krita, kwin, > plasma) have with bugzilla. We don't use bugzilla to handle bug reports, > but to somehow manage all the reports we get, to survive. I blogged > about these

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Elv1313 .
> It is not designed to be a bug database No, it is an issue tracker. As I mentioned in my first mail, people have issues with software or software have issues with their features. People don't have bugs. An issue is a different abstraction. An issue *is not* a bug. For some projects, an issue is

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Eike Hein
I think this discussion has sort of strayed, if understandably so. Maybe this helps: - A lot of projects currently use Phabricator tasks and rely on them heavily. - The GitLab equivalent are Issues. - We're trying to replace Phabricator with GitLab. - If Issues are disabled, we can't import the

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Martin Flöser
Hi all, I just read through the complete thread and thought I want to add a little bit, because I think we miss the big picture. Boud pretty much describes the problem large projects (krita, kwin, plasma) have with bugzilla. We don't use bugzilla to handle bug reports, but to somehow manage

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Ben Cooksley
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, 05:08 Volker Krause, wrote: > On Thursday, 4 July 2019 17:43:06 CEST Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > On donderdag 4 juli 2019 13:02:24 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > > > I complained about the same thing but I was told you can replicate most > > > of those (OS, platform, etc) using

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
Hi, On 2019-07-04 22:49, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: On donderdag 4 juli 2019 22:18:32 CEST Elv1313 . wrote: Ok, lots of email in the last few hours, lets recap a bit. 1. "Top" projects don't like GitLab issues because they are too simple. Can we try to make a comprehensive list of issues on a pad

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 21:32:59 CEST Ben Cooksley wrote: > With regards to Identity, I'm well aware it has its issues - it was > originally designed as a system for developers and other contributors (so > not users) and is now many years old. > > It's trying to do a job it was never designed

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Ilmari Lauhakangas
Elv1313 . kirjoitti 5.7.2019 klo 1.59: I have no idea what you mean with PR<-->Issues integration problem. The things other people mentioned (close issues when PRs are merged, links with context on hover, etc) Plus, "in the future", maybe improvements like being able to turn an issue in a pull

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Ben Cooksley
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, 05:19 Boudewijn Rempt, wrote: > On donderdag 4 juli 2019 19:02:10 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > > On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > > Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our > users? I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Kevin Ottens
Hello, On Thursday, 4 July 2019 19:07:20 CEST Volker Krause wrote: > On Thursday, 4 July 2019 17:43:06 CEST Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > Sorry, but I don't see any way this is going to end well. KDE projects > > should not use the gitlab issues feature for bug reports. Use of the > > issues > >

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 13:02:24 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > I complained about the same thing but I was told you can replicate most > of those (OS, platform, etc) using tags/badges and project structures. > There isn't a 1:1 mapping of fields and tech we got used to from Bugzilla. And then

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
On 2019-07-04 19:02, Nate Graham wrote: On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our users? I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add screen shots and screen recordings or crash logs? In my experience, yes. Being

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Ilmari Lauhakangas
Nate Graham kirjoitti 4.7.2019 klo 20.02: On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our users? I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add screen shots and screen recordings or crash logs? In my experience, yes. Being

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Michael Pyne
On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 06:22:11AM +0300, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > Nate Graham kirjoitti 3.7.2019 klo 21.23: > > On 7/3/19 11:53 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > >> If the new is much better than the old, let's just remove the old. > >> > >> As said, having two things that do the same is just

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Nate Graham
On 7/4/19 11:06 AM, Christoph Cullmann wrote: Actually, do we really want that every user bug reporter opens an account on invent.kde.org? I actually think the split of accounts between phabricator/gitlab vs. bugzilla is no bad but a good feature. It would definitely solve that problem, but

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 19:02:10 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our users? > > I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add screen shots and > > screen recordings or crash logs? >

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 17:54:23 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > - bugs.kde.org currently offers a subpar UX for users reporting issues, > compared to GitHub/GitLab/potentially the future Bugzilla 6 upgrade. Um, actually, now that I think of it, that also needs a bit of substantiation. What are the

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Volker Krause
On Thursday, 4 July 2019 17:43:06 CEST Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > On donderdag 4 juli 2019 13:02:24 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > > I complained about the same thing but I was told you can replicate most > > of those (OS, platform, etc) using tags/badges and project structures. > > There isn't a 1:1

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 19:19:17 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > On 7/4/19 11:06 AM, Christoph Cullmann wrote: > > Actually, do we really want that every user bug reporter opens an > > account on invent.kde.org? > > > > I actually think the split of accounts between phabricator/gitlab vs. > >

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Nate Graham
On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our users? I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add screen shots and screen recordings or crash logs? In my experience, yes. Being able to use a single account for

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
On 2019-07-04 18:11, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: On donderdag 4 juli 2019 17:54:23 CEST Nate Graham wrote: If so, then it seems like the ideal state of affairs would be to replace Bugzilla with GitLab issues as a new bug-reporting front-end for users, and then there would be a separate back-end

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Nate Graham
I'm not a fan of "that's just your personal opinion" being used as a veiled insult in this thread. Voicing opinions is what we do in a discussion. Everybody's opinion is valid. Here's what we generally seem to agree on: - bugs.kde.org currently offers a subpar UX for users reporting issues,

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 17:54:23 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > If so, then it seems like the ideal state of affairs would be to replace > Bugzilla with GitLab issues as a new bug-reporting front-end for users, > and then there would be a separate back-end like what Phabricator Tasks > currently

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Sven Brauch
Hi, On 7/4/19 5:43 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > Sorry, but I don't see any way this is going to end well. KDE > projects should not use the gitlab issues feature for bug reports. > Use of the issues feature should be reserved for replacing the > phabricator tasks functionality. KDE should

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 19:14:30 CEST Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > Nate Graham kirjoitti 4.7.2019 klo 20.02: > > On 7/4/19 10:39 AM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > >> Is it really true that gitlab makes reporting bugs easier for our > >> users? I.e., does it offer easier login, an easier way to add

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 13:02:24 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > Hi, > > > What bugzilla has over gitlab issues is reasonable solid set of > features that help actually tracking and managing the bug report. It's > not that I'm a huge bugzilla fan, it could be much better, but I need > those

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Wolthera
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:02 PM Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > I complained about the same thing but I was told you can replicate most > of those (OS, platform, etc) using tags/badges and project structures. > There isn't a 1:1 mapping of fields and tech we got used to from Bugzilla. For gitlab,

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Luca Beltrame
Il giorno Thu, 4 Jul 2019 13:31:49 +0200 Wolthera ha scritto: > community to handle, so it is probably more efficient to wait for > bugzilla 6 in any case. Speaking of that: does anyone know if there is a roadmap for Bugzilla 6? I'd say the comparison should be done with that as well once it's

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
On 2019-07-04 13:35, Luca Beltrame wrote: Il giorno Thu, 4 Jul 2019 13:31:49 +0200 Wolthera ha scritto: community to handle, so it is probably more efficient to wait for bugzilla 6 in any case. Speaking of that: does anyone know if there is a roadmap for Bugzilla 6? I'd say the comparison

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Ilmari Lauhakangas
On 04.07.2019 13:41, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: So, what gitlab issues have over bugzilla is a rich text editor and a confidentiality flag. What bugzilla has over gitlab issues is reasonable solid set of features that help actually tracking and managing the bug report. It's not that I'm a huge

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Clemens Toennies
On 04.07.2019 02:10, Elv1313 . wrote: So, proposed alternative solution: We make sure that all projects that want a public-facing bug tracker have a product on bugzilla, and that they communicate that as the only bug tracker to users for the time being. Would that work? Probably not. 1. As

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Luigi Toscano
Clemens Toennies ha scritto: > On 04.07.2019 02:10, Elv1313 . wrote: >>> So, proposed alternative solution: We make sure that all projects that >>> want a public-facing bug tracker have a product on bugzilla, and that >>> they communicate that as the only bug tracker to users for the time being.

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Kevin Ottens
Hello, On Thursday, 4 July 2019 10:20:34 CEST Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > I also think that we should evaluate what those new systems bring us. Has > webchat.kde.org brought in more new people in comparede to last year? What > are the positives, what are the negatives now we've used it since

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 10:07:40 CEST Clemens Toennies wrote: > I agree that switching to gitlab and not planning to use it as suite of > integrated features is imo pointless. > As Albert mentioned, reducing the need for users and devs to look at and > maintain multiple interfaces/tools in

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
Hi, Overall, I think KDE in general should be more active and confident in taking steps to consolidate and modernize its software offerings and technical landscape, especially if adoption of key future infrastructure solutions seems to be happening already in many comparable places (e.g.

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Bhushan Shah
Everyone, let's take a step back. Original discussion was, if project X can use gitlab issues instead of bugzilla? If the developers/maintainers prefer? Potential arguments to which are either, - No they can't because we forbid it in our manifesto or code of conduct or policies - No they

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Luigi Toscano
Bhushan Shah ha scritto: > Everyone, let's take a step back. > > Original discussion was, if project X can use gitlab issues instead of > bugzilla? If the developers/maintainers prefer? > > Potential arguments to which are either, > > - No they can't because we forbid it in our manifesto or

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
Is it just me, or is the quoting in this mail a bit crazy? In any case, I'm fine with projects deciding to use gitlab for their bugtracker. I think they would be crazy to do so, since gitlab's issues system lacks just about everything needed to categorize, prioritize, search and update bugs.

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Christoph Cullmann
On 2019-07-04 12:08, Luca Beltrame wrote: It does, see above why. As a downstream I don't want to chase the projects to see which platform they use for reporting bugs. And yes, I have direct experience professionally with another, unrelated FOSS project (Bioconductor) which doesn't have a

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Kai Uwe Broulik
Hi, > What bugzilla has over gitlab issues is reasonable solid set of features that help actually tracking and managing the bug report. It's not that I'm a huge bugzilla fan, it could be much better, but I need those features. > I complained about the same thing but I was told you can

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Luca Beltrame
Il giorno Thu, 4 Jul 2019 15:19:15 +0530 Bhushan Shah ha scritto: > - No they can't because it makes life of other developer harder > - No they can't because it makes life of other user harder - No they can't because it creates inconsistencies and makes some user-facing tools like drkonqi

Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

2019-07-04 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On donderdag 4 juli 2019 12:08:00 CEST Luca Beltrame wrote: > I see nothing that allows an informed decision. Why is not Bugzilla > acceptable? Why is GL better? No, familiarity and onboarding reasons > are not enough. Please at least try to outline first the advantages and > disadvantages of