Re: distributed.net
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 07:50:17PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > if you could email me the password to PMU i'd be grateful, also what > is the focus of PMU - OGR or RC5? Unfortunately, since I didn't start it, I dunno. I'll see if I can track down who's responsible. dha -- David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ "I... would... like... the... Screamin'... Jay... Hawkins... box set... and DVD... please" - #9 Sign Someone Has Cast a Spell On You
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:32:19PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote: [Could you configure your editor/mailer to attribute correctly?] > > Keeping employees 101: Show respect, recognise them, care for > > them and provide opportunity for growth. It's all about the > > love; that's all anyone really wants. > > and money ... lots and lots of money ... Money is a beautiful thing, there's no doubt. Paul, just got a check, er, cheque finally...
Re: Consultancy company
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > The client doesn;t send Big Chief to sit with the designers, instead > > 'designers' is kind of the wrong term with XP. agreed > > they send Useless Minion. UM is positive and helpful and gives quick > > decisions ona whole variety of topics. And a week later turns up > > with changes handed down by Big Chief overiding those decisions. > > worse still the decisions handed down make no sense because he > > hasn;t been with the team and doesn;t undrstand whats going on. > > This one is, potentially a problem. I'd say that, as a company > consulting with the company you make *bloody* sure that the client is > aware of the importance of the 'on site' customer, and of their status > as final arbiter. It's also stressed that the OSC can say "I'll get > back to you on that", but a lot of the time questions that need to be > answered are uncontroversial and can be answered trivially even by a > UM. in my experience getting simlpe concepts across to large and important clients can sometimes be difficult when a) the subject has a funny word in it like 'computer' and b) they don't know what that word means. I just can;t help wondering if it will work .. if it does then I will be no 1 happy bunny. I have XP installed sitting right here and tagged up for a re-read this week (i'm having a month or so off to recover from a 12 month period of development with little breaks) ... and this template toolit thing rocks dunnit .. (now I have the hang of it .. sorta) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Consultancy company
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote: > I rush to point out that those stereotypes were *not* what I was on > about in my "I'm really unsure about telecommuting" thing. I'm one of > the gregarious types. acknowledged ... those 'stereotypes' where pretty extreme and I am sure there are other issues on both sides my basic thrust was however: don't discount any possibilities ... lets open doors not close them before we even get there. Personally I am quite happy to do the office based thing, I don;t have a problem with it. I also enjoy doing the home thing. Different working methods suit different people and different projects. Surely the best outcome is success, success => happiness and happiness => enjoying what you are doing. One of the best things about having your own consultancy is surely that there is no PHB laying down cast iron rules, sure what we do has to make VERY good business sense and be based on sound policies that we can all agree to but lets try and keep things 'open'. flexi-time, pinball machines, games room .. whatever .. if its reasonable then do it. The overiding thing should be 'make this the very best company to work for AND the very best company to have work done by' A1 bleeding edge code written by the planets happiest programmers ... sounds like a good recipe to me. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote: > Keeping employees 101: Show respect, recognise them, care for > them and provide opportunity for growth. It's all about the > love; that's all anyone really wants. and money ... lots and lots of money ... -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Extreme Programming (was: Re: Consultancy company)
"Dean S Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > -Original Message- > From: Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >I did a little pair programming at emap - I probably wasn't doing it > right > >tho'. even so we did get thru the hard bits quicker and could split > up to > >do the easy stuff. I think it made a difference but then I was mostly > >being a backseat coder so either we did okay or stuart was very > tolerant > >indeed. > > > How did you establish who would make good pairings? Was it done by > trying to place two equals or was it done more on a mentoring level of > a very experienced coder and a less experienced one? (I've not read > that much on XP) The Dictum in the XP literature appears to be 'nobody is allowed to say "No"', pairs form and re form on task by task basis. 'Regular' pairs are to be discouraged. XP Installed has a bunch of stuff on this. > Has anyone who's used XP had a client that was willing to make an > employee available pretty much full time or was it more they come in > for a chunk of the afternoon three times a week? I have an issue with > the fact that clients will be willing to pay a member of staff to > spend all day in the consultants office in case they need to be asked > questions. The XP argument goes something like: This team costs you £X000/day. Your liason costs you £X00/day. We believe that having someone available to us, on site, full time (but able to do however much of their work that can be done remotely), will dramatically reduce the amount of our time it takes to deliver a product, and will also increase the final value of that product. Do the maths. (Well, maybe not quite so bluntly, but you take my point) > I'm not saying its a bad thing to have someone on hand, I can see > its uses but from the clients point of view why not just have > contact by phone/email. That was the liaison has access to everyone > in his base office so he can resolve issues faster with more > authority than if he were in your offices. Also you have a paper > trail of requests, questions and responses. There's a whole chapter on this in XP Installed. Paraphrasing, "Customer onsite == answer in 30 seconds. Customer offsite == answer today." They also point out that you can make either version work, but the onsite customer option works best. -- Piers
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > > One customer. On site. Full time. Absolute honesty. Get them on your > > side. The are the people who are *paying* for this, they deserve > > nothing but your honesty. Tell 'em about any problems and tell 'em > > early. Tell 'em about successes and tell 'em early. Get the customer > > rep onside and you have an advocated. Treat the customers like a > > mushrooms and you don't get repeat business. > > sounds great ... when do we start. > > Seriously XP sounds like it should work .. I read the books I was > convinced. > > The only thing that occasioanlly worries me about it is that my current > client is still working his way up to being a mushroom. Apart from that > the client has a total staff of 5. I cant see them sparing 20% of their > workforce in order to sit and keep the developers comapny. Worse still I > have not yet had a decision on anything in less than 24hrs. I think that > would haold true even if they were on site too. > > So I am really keen to do an XP managed project ... if it really does > work then that sfantastic, best result I could ever have. I suspect that > it fails, just in different ways to other project managment systems. > > obvious ones: > > The client doesn;t send Big Chief to sit with the designers, instead 'designers' is kind of the wrong term with XP. > they send Useless Minion. UM is positive and helpful and gives quick > decisions ona whole variety of topics. And a week later turns up > with changes handed down by Big Chief overiding those decisions. > worse still the decisions handed down make no sense because he > hasn;t been with the team and doesn;t undrstand whats going on. This one is, potentially a problem. I'd say that, as a company consulting with the company you make *bloody* sure that the client is aware of the importance of the 'on site' customer, and of their status as final arbiter. It's also stressed that the OSC can say "I'll get back to you on that", but a lot of the time questions that need to be answered are uncontroversial and can be answered trivially even by a UM. And because the XP approach advocates code that passes its tests at all times, the political value of something that is actually doing stuff can be useful too. And if the Big Cheese does hand down decisions that override the Minion then the contract between developer and client should stipulate that the client pays for the wasted time. And if this does happen then we should learn from this how to improve our 'client interview' process. Which kind of implies that our sales teams should work pairwise as well so that there's experienced developers in on the interview too. > Client has no concept about what software development is like and within > a week or two cancels the entire thing 'some of those guys spent a whole > week working and half the time couldnt even get it to run, by the end of > the week all they'd done was write some strange "library" code and even > that doesn;t seem to do anything' Remember that, with the XP approach, library code doesn't get written so much as it kind of happens. If you don't need it *now* you don't write it. Add functionality as you require it. > > but hey .. next person organising a XP based project that needs a junior > perl hacker .. gimme a shout ..
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, > > > and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to > > > go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. > > > > I do agree with this part. > > > the standardisation on the bloody massacre part? > I think this needs to be hammered out before anyone starts a consultancy. Kieran
Re: Extreme Programming (was: Re: Consultancy company)
David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 12:24:24AM +, Piers Cawley wrote: > > > Now, I freely admit that I have partaken of the Extreme Programming > > Kool-Aid, and dammit I want to do it. > > I want to try it too. I'm not convinced by all of it - pair programming > for example - but so much of the other stuff seems damned sensible that > I want to give it a go. Including pair programming. I'm trying to keep > an open mind on that fucking stupid idea. When they got the permie in who's taking over the project I'd been working on, we spent a fair amount of time doing the PP thing. And it was great. A *fantastic* way of getting information shared and passed on for what was basically a decently engineered but atrociously documented project. By the time I left, James knew his way around the system and was confident he could extend it as required. And I was confident he was right about that. (Did my ego good to know I'd written something without sanity checking that was relatively easy for someone to pick up quickly too...) -- Piers
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 10:34:54PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > The concept of execution threads within a process makes it easy to share > resources like database connections. As I understand it, that's it. The > pre-forked model that Apache uses has a problem because it's tough to > share resources. > > Incidentally, I think this is the reason servlets are used. Servlets are actually pretty nice. They're like mod_perl handlers except they feel... cleaner somehow. IMHO, anyway. Michael
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > > I don't see why you can't have a mix - it would be good to have a core > > group of people who always (nearl) work in the office so that if you > > usually work from home but need some face 2 face there will be people > > there (or in a pub nearby). things like IRC and email provide good > > communication about what is going on and can be used to acounce when and > > where people are. > > thats true enough .. although it doesn't fit in with the XP model that > well .. but there is always MOTWTDI .. the basic problem is that > 'office' workers see 'home' workers as a bunch of idle slackers who only > pretend to work from home and really spend the day gardening, and 'home' > workers see 'office' workers as bunch of people who;d rather spend the day > arseing about and chatting than actually doing something .. I rush to point out that those stereotypes were *not* what I was on about in my "I'm really unsure about telecommuting" thing. I'm one of the gregarious types. -- Piers
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Roger Burton West wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > > >Yup. There isn't enough talent around, so people get promoted beyond > >their competence. If you train your people they'll only leave. > > > >The only way out of that cycle is to train in-house, > >and treat people so well that they stay. > > Which implies that hassling them if they don't work 70-hour weeks is > counterproductive. When I was looking for my current job, it took me > a week from starting to search to getting two decent offers; so I know > there's demand for people who can do what I do. On that subject my last 2 and my new employer all made an offer within 24 hours. Even allowing a couple of days to think about it and go through the contract and stuff this leaves most of the rest without even contacting me. If I wanted a perl or c coder I would ensure a) the money was there and the board were prepered to stump up the cash. b) the project that the programmers is needed on will last at least 6 months and that there are in house developers who can tutor. c) A planned package and contract are already templated out and only teh person and the salary need to be decided. d) During the interview I put at least as much work into it as the applicant, If I know what I what I want and how the company works and can talk about with ease because I have prepered I am more likely to get the right information out of teh applicant. If I intimidate the applicant or show off (certain webserver company) I don't find out enough about the applicant to make a sound judgement. If I don't ask enough questions or rely on the applicant to sell themselves then I won't be able to make a good decision. e) I keep in contact with all applicants during the whole process - ackowledge applications quickly, inform applicants quickly of the results and give feedback for all applicants who were interviewed. of course that is a lot to ask but all the companies I have worked for have managed most of if not all. And of course you can always rely on the board to screw the first two up despite how much you try. A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: > y* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: > > > Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where > > > you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... > > > > > > > > They're apparently faster. And make it easier to share data. > > > aside from the whole LWP aspect, i think the main appeal is they are > a defined art - unlike the matre'd/minicab controller element of > forked process management > > we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, > and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to > go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. > Ah that'll be Grep pissed with his week then :) /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > > TCL is used because its multithreaded. Perl 6 is going to be > > multithreaded. It should be able to wipe TCL out. > > I've never actually understood the appeal of threads. Why do > people like them? > The concept of execution threads within a process makes it easy to share resources like database connections. As I understand it, that's it. The pre-forked model that Apache uses has a problem because it's tough to share resources. Incidentally, I think this is the reason servlets are used. Regards Kieran
Fw: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?
Back to list * Mark Townsend ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > All of what Mark said is bang on. > > So, at the meeting, I suggest a few questions for the agenda: > What sort of business do you expect to win? > > What funding have you (living of savings until you get money in)? > > How do you want to spend your savings (office space, salesman, equipment)? > i'd add one question, where/what do you expect to be/have in 2 years? and if its the have then what portion of it do you expect to have? Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:24:03PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, > > > and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to > > > go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. > > I do agree with this part. > the standardisation on the bloody massacre part? Actually both. Michael
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, > > and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to > > go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. > > I do agree with this part. the standardisation on the bloody massacre part? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 10:58:54PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > y* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: > > > Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where > > > you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... > > > > They're apparently faster. And make it easier to share data. > aside from the whole LWP aspect, i think the main appeal is they are > a defined art - unlike the matre'd/minicab controller element of > forked process management Hmm, it just always feels like someone sat down once and said "ok, we have two choices: 1) we could improve proccesses, and IPC, and make them useful and standard and easy for the task we want to do. 2) we could ignore the considerable work we spent implementing processes, and build a new form of thing, and them build all our standards on top of that ". And they picked the second option. > we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, > and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to > go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. I do agree with this part.
Re: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?
What sort of work do you want to do? What sort of business do you seek? Body shop, A-Team or bespoke software house? This message generated a few threads: Working from home v office; pair programming vs traditional project "individual portions"; and handling client contact or involvement. These issues are all related to winning a project from a client and going away to develop it (bespoke software?). At least one earlier message concerned body-shopping i.e. putting a bunch of developers into a site e.g. an investment bank and hiring them out on time and materials basis. This replaces the agents with your own salesman, then gets the team members into sites as contractors (there are many small to medium sized consultancies in this market sector). A lot of the messages seem to be based on the developers dream of working with a bunch of drinking buddies (generally a good thing) and seem to assume a software house type of business. This model is for fixed price work with whole projects paid on delivery of the project or stages thereof and variation orders. The "A-Team" - scenario is one in which a team goes in to rescue a failing project, or go in and retune/redesign an existing project that works but has become a victim of its own success. Think of this work as bespoke enhancements. Unless someone brings some business to the venture (e.g. a client with a requirement or an idea for a new software invention with sufficient funding), the venture will need someone to bring in the business. If the venture has a mix of bespoke software and body-shopping then the premises will not need a desk for every member to be in the office concurrently (at any time. some will be out at client site). Usually within a fixed length contract there may be times when a contractor needs to get some more work from the client. At such times the worker attends project meetings and planning sessions which are part of the job and are paid. A consultancy must attend meetings and discuss project requirements in order to win business. Fees will need to cover the consultancy for periods off charge, so basing project costs on say charging sixty pounds per developer hour will not cover all the costs. So, at the meeting, I suggest a few questions for the agenda: What sort of business do you expect to win? What funding have you (living of savings until you get money in)? How do you want to spend your savings (office space, salesman, equipment)? Mark
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
y* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: > > Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where > > you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... > > > > They're apparently faster. And make it easier to share data. > aside from the whole LWP aspect, i think the main appeal is they are a defined art - unlike the matre'd/minicab controller element of forked process management we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. Greg [1] i'm willing to limit this law to semi-automatic weapons - i'm that reasonable -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: > Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where > you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... They're apparently faster. And make it easier to share data. Michael
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:06:52PM +, Jonathan Stowe wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > > > TCL is used because its multithreaded. Perl 6 is going to be > > > multithreaded. It should be able to wipe TCL out. > > I've never actually understood the appeal of threads. Why do > > people like them? > Thats a trick question right ? Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... Michael
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > > TCL is used because its multithreaded. Perl 6 is going to be > > multithreaded. It should be able to wipe TCL out. > > I've never actually understood the appeal of threads. Why do > people like them? > Thats a trick question right ? /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, I wrote: > so while I'm on .. what is wisdom on this then .. my method was going to err hold your answers .. I'm just reading the docs on (the recently discovered) templatetoolkit.org -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: > TCL is used because its multithreaded. Perl 6 is going to be > multithreaded. It should be able to wipe TCL out. I've never actually understood the appeal of threads. Why do people like them? Michael
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote:
> Yup. There isn't enough talent around, so people get promoted beyond
> their competence. If you train your people they'll only leave.
>
> The only way out of that cycle is to train in-house,
> and treat people so well that they stay.
Solution: teach them uber-esoterica like TCL ("The Cult
Language") so they become social pariahs thus dependent on
support from The Company, and further can't get a job anywhere
else owing to their debilitating intellectual crippling and
emotional & psychological dependencies :-)
Keeping employees 101: Show respect, recognise them, care for
them and provide opportunity for growth. It's all about the
love; that's all anyone really wants.
Paul
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote: >Yup. There isn't enough talent around, so people get promoted beyond >their competence. If you train your people they'll only leave. > >The only way out of that cycle is to train in-house, >and treat people so well that they stay. Which implies that hassling them if they don't work 70-hour weeks is counterproductive. When I was looking for my current job, it took me a week from starting to search to getting two decent offers; so I know there's demand for people who can do what I do. In turn, my employers know it too: which means our relationship is a lot more civilised than it's been in other places where I worked. I don't think training is related to leaving; people leave anyway, all the time. Giving someone training might increase his market value, but if your company isn't prepared to pay for that, why train him in the first place? Roger
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef --)
On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Chris Benson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:04:24PM +, Robin Houston wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 08:01:51PM +, Chris Benson wrote: > > > > > Another link is > > > > > > http://www.arsdigita.com/careers/ > > > > > > They seem to be a very good model for a consultancy business > > > > Personally I wouldn't like to work anywhere that thinks like this: > > http://www.arsdigita.com/asj/managing-software-engineers/ > > > > Even if that article is slightly tongue-in-cheek, it disturbs me :-) > I get the feeling that some of Greenspun's writings are written as advertising. One theme running through his writings seems to me is to explain his architecture to the audience. He keeps things really simple, so that even a manager should be able to understand him. But it remains advertising. He goes just slightly over the top about how great ArsDigita is. > I suspect it is *not* tongue-in-cheek -- he wants only the best and does > expect 70-80 hour weeks ... during a project. In some discussion I saw > about this he justified it two ways that I remember: (1) not everyone > worked on projects all the time and (2) if people did work full time on > projects they'd be getting about ~us$500k / year. (Having spent the > entire 80's doing 70-80 hour weeks for less than gbp10k I'd liked to > have had the chance!). > Hmm. My experience says that on many projects, there are people you don't want to work overtime. This is because they created many of the reasons why overtime is necessary. Greenspun believes that everyone should be potentially great (or great already.) He suggests that when a project needs work, people work harder. And an interesting point is that he is in a small town (Cambridge, Masse-however you spell the damn thing), so that commuting is much quicker. On a typical day, I leave for work at 7.25, get to work at about 9.10, leave at 6.30 and arrive home around 8.15. (This is since Hatfield. Total work time 8.30 after lunch. If my commute was 10 minutes each way, I'd have 3hours and 10 minutes of extra work time a day. (Not that I'd necessarily want to work it...) Look at the consultancy thread, where despite the project being composed of a group of friends, a lot of people wanted to work from home. > There are also good bits there which have been mentioned in other threads: > > The average home cannot accomodate a pinball machine. An office > can. The average home can have video games, which are very popular > with young programmers, but not people with whom to play. The > average home cannot have a grand piano but almost any office can. > For the time being, the techy is "talent". We should be treated well, until they find a way to clone us. At the very least, if we aren't being treated well, it implies that the project isn't valued. > I don't think I'd like to work for them though ... I'm getting old'n'soft > :-( and I find the attitude that comes over in Phil Greenspun's writing > rather (very!) arrogant. And of course they use TCL. > I think that Greenspun needs to be outspoken to pay for the techies toys. TCL is used because its multithreaded. Perl 6 is going to be multithreaded. It should be able to wipe TCL out. > But the organisational structure and strategy/vision *is* interesting. Yup. There isn't enough talent around, so people get promoted beyond their competence. If you train your people they'll only leave. The only way out of that cycle is to train in-house, and treat people so well that they stay. Discuss. Kieran
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > how do you get the process() method to return the output to you instead of > > printing the damn thing.??? > > Obviously didn't read the bit about the process method eh? > You'd be wanting the string ref as above, matie. ooh ta .. now where was that hiding ..???... I hate it when that happens :) ohh found it .. bottom of Template.3 Thanks. so while I'm on .. what is wisdom on this then .. my method was going to be write all the data extraction from the db in plain Perl, whenever I need to do anyting html make sure thats in a template and call that from the main proggy, so in theory all the structure is defined by the templates .. however obvioulsy the structure will also depend on the perl code so is it better to write subs and then call them from templates so templates define the structure too, I REALLY want to avoid the putting code into the templates and using the various [% FOREACH ...%] cos thats just as bad as putting html inline innit? -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Robin Szemeti sent the following bits through the ether: > how do you get the process() method to return the output to you instead of > printing the damn thing.??? Obviously didn't read the bit about the process method eh? # text reference $tt->process(\$text) || die $tt->error(), "\n"; ... By default, the processed template output is printed to STDOUT. The process() method then returns 1 to indicate success. A third parameter may be passed to the process() method to specify a different output location. This value may be one of: a plain string indicating a filename which will be opened (relative to OUTPUT_PATH, if defined) and the output written to; a file GLOB opened ready for output; a reference to a scalar (e.g. a text string) to which output/error is appended; a reference to a subroutine which is called, passing the output as a parameter; or any object reference which implements a 'print' method (e.g. IO::Handle, Apache::Request, etc.) which will be called, passing the generated output as a parameter. You'd be wanting the string ref as above, matie. Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Don't thank me for insulting you. It was my pleasure...
Re: distributed.net
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:36:25AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > Dave's new SUPER CHARGED TURBO NUTTER 2001 pc reminded me of the good > > old days of distributed.net. Is anyone still participating in this? > > I've just threw some keys at PMU but it appears they are dead in > > the water along with the rest of us. Is it time we joined up with > > some team like PMU and had a single Perl team? > > I've still got the powerbook churning away here. oddly, though, it's > been having issues connecting to the server, so I don't get to update > that frequently. :-/ > > Go PMU!!! > if you could email me the password to PMU i'd be grateful, also what is the focus of PMU - OGR or RC5? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: distributed.net
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:36:25AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > Dave's new SUPER CHARGED TURBO NUTTER 2001 pc reminded me of the good > old days of distributed.net. Is anyone still participating in this? > I've just threw some keys at PMU but it appears they are dead in > the water along with the rest of us. Is it time we joined up with > some team like PMU and had a single Perl team? I've still got the powerbook churning away here. oddly, though, it's been having issues connecting to the server, so I don't get to update that frequently. :-/ Go PMU!!! dha -- David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ This is Pop - XTC
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, you wrote:
> Aside from all the inline HTML.
>
> ARGH! When will people learn!
speaking of which ;)
so .. in an idle moment I'm supposed to be re jazzin' a mates website ..
uh huh, ... no inline HTML for me I says .. so instead of my normal method
[1] I think so .. everyone keeps drooling on about Template::Toolkit best
use that. .. now heres the thing .. its really basic and I feel stoopid
asking .. yes I have read the docs but obvioulsy not the right bits...
how do you get the process() method to return the output to you instead of
printing the damn thing.???
I'll prolly have worked it out ... but hey feel free to jump right in
[1] me normal way ... make up a package containing all the ickle bits of
templates as subs taking a hashref and then just return the contents.
never any code in the templates, err like this ...
# calling routine
my (%data);
$data{text}='Hello World';
my ($result)=Template::test(\%data);
print $result;
exit 0;
package Template;
sub test{
my ($data)=shift;
return <
$data->{text}
END
}
--
Robin Szemeti
The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!
Re: Holy War
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > Mandrake 7.2. > > All I'll say about mandrake is that we have a mandrake box at work and > when you run printtool the cdrom ejects. I've been running Mandrake for a while (2 years?) now .. and it seems fine, its Dedrat really with the KDE desktop and a things added by the French .. but it generally installs straight out of the tin, has a choice of security settings for the paranoid etc. I never did find out what caused the pesky security checks to run at midnight when I was always trying to use the damm thing ... so got rid of the script and run tripwire from crontab once a day at a more useful hour. 'part from that its just fine. I run Dedrat 7.0 on my server at mailbox and having turned off all the dangeroos stuff and set up the IPCHAINS and put SSH on it its been totally reliable and unhacked. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: TPC5
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london > > > > I think Location in this day an age is a little irrelivant. The choice > will be made on quality of service - not where the office is based. > ... and all the clients will be logically thinking young people. with no biases and no predefined stereotypes. they will make sure they pay there bills on time and they will not be trying to fuck you from day 1. unfortunatly any startup company that is not backed with serious capital needs to accept almost every job it can get, and if it cant get most of them due to some middleaged business man's discrimination against it - due to the fact that the office is in brighton, or they don't have an office or they don't wear suits or whatever, it won't survive. i agree with you logically but i see a big difference in reality. > The south coast has a very high number of nu media companies - and > apparently Worthing is the most profitable town / area in the UK. however, the major (only?) resource that this theoretical company has is people and most of them are london based anyway so anywhere outside the M25 is probably not going to leverage the main resource and the company would be dead from day #1 however on a trivia note, i'd be willing to bet that _the_ city makes the most profit per area in the UK, but thats a trivia point > It is often easier to get to some London Locations from Brighton than it > is from London. > > > i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and > > two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types > > can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying > > to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? > > You've lost me there ? > ok, ignoring the other figures and concetrating on the two steves ... Woz was an A class engineer and C/D class business guy Jobs was a B class engineer but also a B class business guy and marketeer (bullshitter) if they seperatly formed companys Woz would create the most technically brilliant corporatopia (i just made that up ;-) ), Jobs would make the most money - i'm certainly arguing in this ``debate'' (although that implies too much conflict) that job's way is best others may feel woz's way is best Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Jonathan Stowe sent the following bits through the ether: > > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > * Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: > > > > > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > > > > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > > > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > > > > > ARGH! When will people learn! > > > > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > > > I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) > > > it's a sign of how we have not moved away from the current computing > > [ wondering how long we can keep the beautiful symmetry of the quoting ] % Dunno, but it looks very pretty: yes it does -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Mail::ListDetector - please test
Hi. I have an (as yet unreleased) module called Mail::ListDetector, which takes a Mail::Internet object, and attempts to tell you if the message involved was posted to a mailing list, and if so, attempts to get some details about that list. I need testers - in particular, see if it builds and passes tests for you, and throw lots of messages at the sample script and see if you can get it to be inaccurate for any of them. If you can, please send me the message in question. (if you don't want to give out the content, just headers should do). Currently it should know about majordomo, smartlist, ezmlm, and mailman, although the majordomo and smartlist guessers are a bit experimental. It's at: http://www.etla.org/Mail-ListDetector-0.05.tar.gz Michael
Re: TPC5
Greg McCarroll wrote: > > * Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Andrew Bowman wrote: > > > > > > From: "Nathan Torkington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > > > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > > > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > > > > > > What sort of numbers are we talking about then? > > > > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London > > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference > > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > > > What about Brighton ;-) > > > > potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london > Have you heard of Victoria Real - the people behind amonst other things big browers website ? I think Location in this day an age is a little irrelivant. The choice will be made on quality of service - not where the office is based. Although I agree that some people may be a little biased. The south coast has a very high number of nu media companies - and apparently Worthing is the most profitable town / area in the UK. It is often easier to get to some London Locations from Brighton than it is from London. > i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and > two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types > can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying > to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? You've lost me there ? > > -- > Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
Jonathan Peterson wrote: > > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of > > central London > > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have > > sizeable conference > > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. > > Go to Brighton. It's nicer than London, on the sea, easy to get to from > Gatwick, and has more pubs per head of population than any other town in > Britain (I think, or maybe it was more pubs per square mile). It has > conference facilities for all sizes (although I've no idea how booked up > they get). And it's 55 minutes from London by train. 47 mins actually - although this time is now theoretical due to the train problems. Also brighton has a very / extremely high number of places to eat (cafe||restaurants). Only 25 mins from the secound biggest airport in the UK, which is nearer than London. Greg
Re: TPC5
Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > Greg Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > The Beach. > > For some values of beach not including sand. > Don't start that argument. I spend many an hour - recently opcodes clicked whilst on the beach - and watching three nutters go for a swim ! Greg > -- > Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org > Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com > Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire > -
Re: TPC5
Jonathan Stowe wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jonathan Peterson wrote: > > > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of > > > central London > > > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have > > > sizeable conference > > > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > > > > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > > > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > > > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. > > > > Go to Brighton. It's nicer than London, on the sea, easy to get to from > > Gatwick, and has more pubs per head of population than any other town in > > Britain (I think, or maybe it was more pubs per square mile). It has > > conference facilities for all sizes (although I've no idea how booked up > > they get). And it's 55 minutes from London by train. > > > > And its handy for me. > And me ;-) Greg > /J\ > -- > Jonathan Stowe | > http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one > http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. I've a site in production that uses this - works fine. Greg > > -- > Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org > Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com > Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire > -
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Jonathan Stowe sent the following bits through the ether: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > * Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: > > > > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > > > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > > > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > > > > ARGH! When will people learn! > > > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > > > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > > > I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) > > it's a sign of how we have not moved away from the current computing > > metaphor to something else - boo to filesystems bring on object storage! > [ wondering how long we can keep the beautiful symmetry of the quoting ] Dunno, but it looks very pretty: http://astray.com/pretty_quoting.png Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Don't thank me for insulting you. It was my pleasure...
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: > > > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > > > ARGH! When will people learn! > > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > > I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) > it's a sign of how we have not moved away from the current computing > metaphor to something else - boo to filesystems bring on object storage! Its a sign that its time for Grep's drug test:) Actually I do agree with you, but this stuff is still quite difficult to implement using Open Source tools ... [ wondering how long we can keep the beautiful symmetry of the quoting ] /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > > > > Don't you hate it when that happens? > > > > I've managed to hack in the requisite headers and footers (a > > containing, constraining table) so I'm in business. > > Don't spose you could bang it on line once you've done a bit so I don't > have to reapeat both of our work? No, no. I inlined 'em. No templates. Dave // Beyond lazy... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > > Don't you hate it when that happens? > > I've managed to hack in the requisite headers and footers (a > containing, constraining table) so I'm in business. Don't spose you could bang it on line once you've done a bit so I don't have to reapeat both of our work? A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). Don't you hate it when that happens? I've managed to hack in the requisite headers and footers (a containing, constraining table) so I'm in business. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: > > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > > ARGH! When will people learn! > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) it's a sign of how we have not moved away from the current computing metaphor to something else - boo to filesystems bring on object storage! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: > On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > > > ARGH! When will people learn! > > I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work > at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). > I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Conultancy discussion (was Re: TPC5)
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 04:50:39PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Neil Ford ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > >potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london > > Seeing as this was about TPC, interesting subject change :-) > apologise for that i've rejoined (void) and once again regard all mailing lists > as one big holistic stream ;-) Ah, they all come back in the end... Michael
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > ARGH! When will people learn! I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. > > Aside from all the inline HTML. > > ARGH! When will people learn! > it got the job done in the first n'th generation? yes? we'll solve that problem in the n+1'th generation of computing and introduce another batch of new ones -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Conultancy discussion (was Re: TPC5)
* Neil Ford ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > >potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london > > > Seeing as this was about TPC, interesting subject change :-) apologise for that i've rejoined (void) and once again regard all mailing lists as one big holistic stream ;-) > Interesting question. I have both men to thank for an awful lot (the > Apple II got me into computing, the mac is by far my most favourite > machine) and whilst I would quite like to meet both, Woz is > definitely the man I identify with most. i had an Apple II, never a Mac. I intend to get an iMac soon as a second desktop machine for playing DVD's[1] and writing. the only problem i have is justifying the purchase of Mac Ms-Office. i am just finishing a book - ``infinite loop'', about the rise and fall and rise of apple, good book but a little dull during the sculley era. i guess i am more like jobs, but i am also aware he is the more flawed of the two. Greg [1] and if i'm going to watch DVD's on a mac, i'm definetly going to have to get Toy Story -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... > > I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. Aside from all the inline HTML. ARGH! When will people learn! -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Conultancy discussion (was Re: TPC5)
>* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> Andrew Bowman wrote: >> > >> > From: "Nathan Torkington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels >> > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in >> > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. >> > >> > What sort of numbers are we talking about then? >> > >> > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London >> > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have >>sizeable conference >> > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). >> >> What about Brighton ;-) >> > >potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london > Seeing as this was about TPC, interesting subject change :-) The obvious answer to this is "depends where your customers are". Being out side London works for my friend Nik, but then he's targetting customers to the south of London and along the South Coast. Customers in Central London would definitely prefer a consultancy so located. >i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and >two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types >can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying >to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? > Interesting question. I have both men to thank for an awful lot (the Apple II got me into computing, the mac is by far my most favourite machine) and whilst I would quite like to meet both, Woz is definitely the man I identify with most. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: TPC5
On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jonathan Peterson wrote: > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of > > central London > > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have > > sizeable conference > > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. > > Go to Brighton. It's nicer than London, on the sea, easy to get to from > Gatwick, and has more pubs per head of population than any other town in > Britain (I think, or maybe it was more pubs per square mile). It has > conference facilities for all sizes (although I've no idea how booked up > they get). And it's 55 minutes from London by train. > And its handy for me. /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: TPC5
On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, David H. Adler wrote: > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 11:28:06PM -, Andrew Bowman wrote: > > From: "Nathan Torkington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > > > > What sort of numbers are we talking about then? > > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. > Well there's Blackpool, Brighton, Eastbourne, Bournemouth, Harrogate, Birmingham ... (spot the odd one out :) /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: TPC5
On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Andrew Bowman wrote: > > There are also a number of large and large-ish venues in London offering a > variety of halls and facilities, e.g. Earls Court, Olympia, Wembley > Conference Centre[1], The Business Design Centre in Islington, The Royal > Horticultural Halls, Queen Elizabeth Conference Hall, Church House (or > whatever it's called) etc. etc. > ISPcon europe was in the Novotel at Hammersmith in 1999 ISTR /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > go on dave, it cant be that hard > > Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > go on dave, it cant be that hard Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... Michael
RE: TPC5
> > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of > central London > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have > sizeable conference > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. Go to Brighton. It's nicer than London, on the sea, easy to get to from Gatwick, and has more pubs per head of population than any other town in Britain (I think, or maybe it was more pubs per square mile). It has conference facilities for all sizes (although I've no idea how booked up they get). And it's 55 minutes from London by train.
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > > > > go on dave, it cant be that hard I'm sure there's a TT macro that does it all. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > I know some people here had some experience with wwwthreads, but are > there any alternatives? > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. With a little work wmforum is quite nice (easy enough to understand and therefore make more modular and port to templatetoolkit) also its GPL so you can fork it into something decent and release/use how you like. If you have used forum software before its pretty easy to bang a decent ofrum out of it. slashcode and kuro5hins code are fairly heavy and un-necessary (also wmforu works fine with mod_perl). http://www.mawic.de/mwforum/ A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. > go on dave, it cant be that hard -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Perl/MySQL based forums
I know some people here had some experience with wwwthreads, but are there any alternatives? No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: TPC5
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:22:07PM -0500, David H. Adler wrote: > > > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. > > Good point. Sometimes it's hard to remember that there is life outside > the M25. Errm ... if you *really* want to have it in the UK, consider > manchester and birmingham. Both have international airports, large hotels > and conference centres. I expect Edinburgh does too although I'm not sure > if there are direct flights to .us - but that's OK, there's no direct > flights from .eu to Monterey :-) or better still consider Dublin or Edinburgh -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
Greg Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The Beach. For some values of beach not including sand. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: TPC5
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Andrew Bowman wrote: > > > > From: "Nathan Torkington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > > > > What sort of numbers are we talking about then? > > > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London > > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference > > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). > > What about Brighton ;-) > potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:22:07PM -0500, David H. Adler wrote: > FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of > London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that > matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. Good point. Sometimes it's hard to remember that there is life outside the M25. Errm ... if you *really* want to have it in the UK, consider manchester and birmingham. Both have international airports, large hotels and conference centres. I expect Edinburgh does too although I'm not sure if there are direct flights to .us - but that's OK, there's no direct flights from .eu to Monterey :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: TPC5
Andrew Bowman wrote: > > From: "Nathan Torkington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > > What sort of numbers are we talking about then? > > If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London > there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference > type facilities (also handy for the airport!). What about Brighton ;-) Cheaper Nicer Near London More Bars / cafe's / resturants than you can shake a stick at ... The Beach. Greg > > There are also a number of large and large-ish venues in London offering a > variety of halls and facilities, e.g. Earls Court, Olympia, Wembley > Conference Centre[1], The Business Design Centre in Islington, The Royal > Horticultural Halls, Queen Elizabeth Conference Hall, Church House (or > whatever it's called) etc. etc. > > HTH, > > Andrew. > > [1] Possibly closed just now for redevelopment.
Re: TPC5
On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: > (update on the OScon in Europe thing--London in August seems to be > a bad idea, so we're looking elsewhere and elsewhen ...) In case anybody is interested the Devon & Cornwall LUG will be helping organise a S/West UK OSS Conference for local businesses and academia. Anybody interested should contact myself and cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] or subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to join the discussion. We are also taking part in the linuxday nationwide installfest and if anybody is in the area they are more than welcome to come and join in (same contact details as above) rgds, A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: TPC5
* Andrew Bowman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > From: "Paul Makepeace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Where you'll be consulting for a munitions firm? :-) > > Nah, I don't know enough about encryption ;-) > > But then again, ignorance doesn't seem to be an obstacle to most lobbyists > or salesmen! Reminds me of ye olde joke: > > Q. What's the difference between a used car salesman and a software > salesman? > > A. A used car salesman knows he's lying! A2. A used car salesman probably knows how to drive a car. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Redvers Davies ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > > One of the hotels in London I have had dealings with has conference facilities > and over 2000 rooms. I could look up their details should you wish. as long as its not that god awful place above ebookers, near russel square - the name escapes me, but i could well believe it has somewhere approaching 2000 (shit) rooms in both of the wings -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels > capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in > fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. > Really? Why does this not surprise about 10~20 people on this list? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
