Re: Save me from my desire...
On 06/03/2014, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: I've test-driven a few Fannys, quite ardently, without committing. I think they're getting wise to it. Cath says I'm not to leave you two alone together any more. You may be right. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 8 Mar 2014, at 21:04, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 06/03/2014, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: I've test-driven a few Fannys, quite ardently, without committing. I think they're getting wise to it. Cath says I'm not to leave you two alone together any more. Is that because of my irresistible boyish charm, or for my own safety? You may be right. Ah. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 6/3/14, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed: I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about the MM as I haven't made up my mind yet. I might still spend it on a trip, and take pictures with the kit I already have. If I was into Leica, which I'm not, I would have one in a flash. If Fuji made a similar X100S, I'd definitely have that. Love the idea of using a camera that restricts the photographer to thinking only in terms of black and white. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 6/3/14, Bill, discombobulated, unleashed: You've noticed I'm not a better photographer for it too? Why didn't you say something? I tried to but the senior moments kept messing me up. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 6/3/14, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: Leica R lenses on the Sony A7 is a better fit for my predilections. I've seen your predilections. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 3/7/2014 6:31 AM, Steve Cottrell wrote: On 6/3/14, Bill, discombobulated, unleashed: You've noticed I'm not a better photographer for it too? Why didn't you say something? I tried to but the senior moments kept messing me up. Damn, I just thought you were British and just being polite, then I remembered, Soccer. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Save me from my desire...
Thanks. I think the M3 is possibly the perfect minimalist camera, and Leica have been trying to go to the dogs ever since, without ever quite getting there. What I would really, really like in a digital Leica is something with the exact dimensions of the M3 - the digital Ms are too fat - and weatherproofing, to protect the electronics. It should also be black and not have a red dot or any branding on the front, just a discreet engraving on the top plate. Apart from the 24x36 sensor, the M9 is too like the M8 for me. I want a 24x36 sensor, but if I buy another M it has to have at least 2 major points of difference (of the type I want) from the M8, so it would be the MM or the typ 240. I like the idea of the typ 240 because it is 24x36, weatherproofed, and for the video. I'd quite like to make a court metrage - a short movie - to help me in analysing films, but I'm not sure that that is something I would use a lot. I'm not expecting to discover that I've been a J-L Godard manqué after all these years - on verra. But I don't like the thumbrest or the wheel thing on the back - they spoil the aesthetics for me. I don't understand why Leica just don't do what I want. B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: 07 March 2014 04:25 To: PDML List Subject: Re: Save me from my desire... On Mar 6, 2014, at 3:37 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about the MM as I haven't made up my mind yet. I might still spend it on a trip, and take pictures with the kit I already have. Hey Bob, I have the M9, as you're well aware. The MM is virtually the same, other than the specialized sensor. Several of my local friends from the Leica community have MMs, so I've had the opportunity to shoot with one a little bit and see their photos. Between the M9 and your M8, differences in use are trivial other than the larger format and some nuances of the controls and menus, you'll find it nearly the same experience. The MM's starkness is part of its endearing quality to me. There's little to distinguish it as a super special, fancy camera at all it's all just plain black, just functional bits, and nothing else. It's the antithesis of camera bling. Most people just glancing at it will see a camera that could be a forty year old lump. Of course, the specialized sensor is really the whole deal with the MM. From what I've seen based on their photos, there really is a substantive improvement in what you can get out of it at the limits for BW work compared to the M9 (or even M Type 240). Better tonal gradation, separation, acutance, etc. Certainly higher sensitivity, ameliorated somewhat by the need to use BW filters to push your tones around with different colors. Optimal exposure and processing the raw files takes slightly different techniques compared to the M9. Oh yes: one thing I've noticed is that the MM is an ideal body to work with all those lovely *older* RF lenses from the '30s, '40s, and '50s you know, all the ones that do weird things like color shifting and such with the M9. Some of those lenses were designed *long* before color film was popular and are best optimized for monochromethey sing on the MM. If you love shooting BW work and are willing to dedicate the money to a specialized body for that purpose, I think you would love it. Its use is very much that of shooting black and white film with a digital camera intentionally limited, constrained by a monochromatic capture. That's part of its genius: constraints breed creativity. I'd considered trading my M9 and some money for an M Monochrom myself, I'd dig it a lot, but I decided to go a different way entirely - Leica R lenses on the Sony A7 is a better fit for my predilections. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
They don't do what I want either. I want them to take a Sony A7 sensor and viewfinder, put a better, smoother, quieter shutter in it, and set it up with the Leica R lens mount. Do they listen? NO! (Actually, the Sony is more flexible because I can fit M-mount, Nikon F, Leica R, and just about any other decent lens mount to it with an appropriate adapter. I just wish it was made and finished with the build quality of the Leicaflex SL.. It's a darn good digital version of that camera anyway. :-) I'd love a digital M as trim as my M4-2 as well, but it cannot happen, at least not with today's technology. Look at the Sony A7 and the sensor plane registration mark. That shows that with today's technology, you need about 12mm from the sensor plane to the back of the body to fit the sensor assembly and electronics that drive it. For film, you need about 3mm. So there's a 9-10mm minimum thickness gain for a Leica M since the lens mount has to go in front of the sensor plane with a 28mm registration. And if you measure it, that's about the difference in thickness between an M4-2 or M3 and an M8-M9-M(240). The M9 and MM are delightfully spartan with simple menus and simple controls. The MM has no red dot, no script on top, nothing. Its just there. Weatherproofing would be nice. The shutter and IO speed of the M(240) would be nice. If you want to do video, get an Olympus E-M1 … the five-axis IBIS is very useful for doing hand-held movie work. (It's too bad they didn't put in a 24fps capture speed, though; you have to transcode it after capture.) So many nice cameras out there these days. Sony, Pentax, Leica, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic … Oh yeah, those Nikon and Canon things too. G On Mar 7, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: Thanks. I think the M3 is possibly the perfect minimalist camera, and Leica have been trying to go to the dogs ever since, without ever quite getting there. What I would really, really like in a digital Leica is something with the exact dimensions of the M3 - the digital Ms are too fat - and weatherproofing, to protect the electronics. It should also be black and not have a red dot or any branding on the front, just a discreet engraving on the top plate. Apart from the 24x36 sensor, the M9 is too like the M8 for me. I want a 24x36 sensor, but if I buy another M it has to have at least 2 major points of difference (of the type I want) from the M8, so it would be the MM or the typ 240. I like the idea of the typ 240 because it is 24x36, weatherproofed, and for the video. I'd quite like to make a court metrage - a short movie - to help me in analysing films, but I'm not sure that that is something I would use a lot. I'm not expecting to discover that I've been a J-L Godard manqué after all these years - on verra. But I don't like the thumbrest or the wheel thing on the back - they spoil the aesthetics for me. I don't understand why Leica just don't do what I want. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 7, 2014, at 5:25 pm, Godfrey DiGiorgi godfreydigio...@me.com wrote: Oh yes: one thing I've noticed is that the MM is an ideal body to work with all those lovely *older* RF lenses from the '30s, '40s, and '50s … you know, all the ones that do weird things like color shifting and such with the M9. Some of those lenses were designed *long* before color film was popular and are best optimized for monochrome—they sing on the MM. As it happens, this morning I finally got around to reading the pdf manual for this old Dufaycolor film. It includes a couple of pages of advice about lighting, makeup and lenses which struck me as strange at first, until I realised it was written in 1938 when colour film was something new. I'm now curious to find a colour photo of panchromatic makeup to find out what colour(s) it really was. It's amazing how this film resembles a Bayer-pattern under the microscope; we seem to have come full circle :) Drifting off-topic, I wonder if anyone's tried CMY on both sensors and LCDs to increase the sensitivity/brightness. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 04/03/2014, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ No experience [surprisingly 8 -)] with either the Leica or Ms Ardant but I will say that, if I was investing such a sum, I would be looking for a serious test drive before committing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:47 , Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: A MacBook Pro, and a Mac Mini with a 24in monitor; both Safari and Firefox. Larry's and Godfrey's from Feb are coarsely pixelated too. All the pix people are posting anywhere but Flickr look fine, including your Tumblr pix. Flickr sucks. I won't argue about the suckiness of their interface, but I'm not getting coarsely pixelated images when I look at anything on Flickr. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I realize it was in jest but... Asking this group to save you from your desire to buy photographic gear is like going to a brothel and asking the working girls to help you to practice chastity. On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
It can help of you are broke and ugly. On March 6, 2014 8:20:35 AM PST, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I realize it was in jest but... Asking this group to save you from your desire to buy photographic gear is like going to a brothel and asking the working girls to help you to practice chastity. On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 3/5/2014 10:39 PM, John wrote: On 3/5/2014 6:20 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. Bob's a Big Boy! He can make up his own mind how to spend his money. At what point in life does it make sense to stop deferring gratification live a little? A big savings account ain't gonna' help him when he's dead. Can't take it with him, and even if he could, it'd probably burn. Being a Frankophile I would expect that Bob's stash is bullion (see the Au on the Tricolor for reference), and would melt rather than burn. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
A bunch of Flickr does indeed suck; badly. But for much of my needs it sucks less than anything else I've encountered, especially for the price. And some of the suckage can be contained by front-ending it with Flickriver which I usually remember to do. Your pixelated fail is the first I've heard of that particular issue. Most people just run into the Unexpected Ken Burns Annoyance. I wonder if you've got some stale browser cookies that need to be expunged? Just for testing, does this Flickr image (Kat) viewed via Flickriver look okay to you? http://www.flickriver.com/photos/bruce_m_walker/12759673524/ Thanks! On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: A MacBook Pro, and a Mac Mini with a 24in monitor; both Safari and Firefox. Larry's and Godfrey's from Feb are coarsely pixelated too. All the pix people are posting anywhere but Flickr look fine, including your Tumblr pix. Flickr sucks. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:43 , Bruce Walker wrote: That's very curious, Rick. How are you viewing them? Chrome, Firefox, Safari (Mac OS), iPod (iOS): all look fine. How about on my Tumblr? (Note that after about 5 images down things get NSFW) http://off-axis.brucemwalker.com/ On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Nope, it's Flickr. Bruce Walker's last few images are pixelated as hell, and won't re-load in a cleaner state. I hate Flickr. The new version is even worse than the old one. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:15 , Rick Womer wrote: Beautiful colors and composition, but as soft as a well-fluffed down pillow. QED, in re the Leica M. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 21:35 , Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 4/3/14, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed: You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. This would be my prime motivation form something like this. I find it really hard to 'think' mono while shooting with a normal colour sensor. For this reason I shoot jpegs with the mono set - but it's too damn easy to switch back to colour with the Fujis. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 5/3/14, Bill, discombobulated, unleashed: When I shot film, it was almost exclusively black and white, and my composition tended to ignore colour in favour of texture. Since I started shooting digital, with it's automatic colour output, I am finding that my compositions now tend towards taking the colour of the object into account. I don't think I am a better photographer for it, either. My sentiments EXACTLY -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 6, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Steve Cottrell co...@seeingeye.tv wrote: On 4/3/14, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed: You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. This would be my prime motivation form something like this. I find it really hard to 'think' mono while shooting with a normal colour sensor. I find this odd, in that when shooting BW with a film camera one sees a color scene in the viewfinder. Why would the knowledge that a color sensor lurks within make it harder to think in BW than would looking through the color viewfinder on a film camera? Thinking in BW is just a matter of knowing how colors convert to grey. In truth, the color information is an important part of the process. Of course, it’s best to plan your BW shots, rather than just converting the ones that don’t work in color. But the hidden sensor doesn’t enter into the equation. For this reason I shoot jpegs with the mono set - but it's too damn easy to switch back to colour with the Fujis. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 6/3/14, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed: I find this odd, in that when shooting BW with a film camera one sees a color scene in the viewfinder. Why would the knowledge that a color sensor lurks within make it harder to think in BW than would looking through the color viewfinder on a film camera? Thinking in BW is just a matter of knowing how colors convert to grey. In truth, the color information is an important part of the process. Of course, it's best to plan your BW shots, rather than just converting the ones that don't work in color. But the hidden sensor doesn't enter into the equation. When I shot in B+W in the old film days, and in fact from day 1 at college, I looked at things only ion terms of shading, texture and form - I effectively blocked the colour out and didn't 'see' it. Oddly enough, when shooting B+W with my Fuji mirrorless, the EVF is in mono, and I prefer an optical viewfinder! #awkward -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Through an interesting convluence of two different things that have my attention right now (learning about the Monochrom sensor and webcam video for planetary astrophotography) I tripped across a bunch of info on REMOVING THE BAYER FILTERS from the front of your DSLR sensor (in essence, making it into a Monochrom equiv). This allows you capture a lot more light (using every pixel) and also to apply the same filter to each and every pixel (helpful for astrophotography and combining different wavelengths of light (you make a color image at the end of the process). Sound like you need to be pretty brave to try it: http://www.jtwastronomy.com/tutorials/debayer.html http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/166334-debayering-a-dslrs-bayer-matrix/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Paul is right. The problem is not within your camera but between our ears (as with so many things in life). On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Mar 6, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Steve Cottrell co...@seeingeye.tv wrote: On 4/3/14, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed: You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. This would be my prime motivation form something like this. I find it really hard to 'think' mono while shooting with a normal colour sensor. I find this odd, in that when shooting BW with a film camera one sees a color scene in the viewfinder. Why would the knowledge that a color sensor lurks within make it harder to think in BW than would looking through the color viewfinder on a film camera? Thinking in BW is just a matter of knowing how colors convert to grey. In truth, the color information is an important part of the process. Of course, it's best to plan your BW shots, rather than just converting the ones that don't work in color. But the hidden sensor doesn't enter into the equation. For this reason I shoot jpegs with the mono set - but it's too damn easy to switch back to colour with the Fujis. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Someone had to play devil's advocate (re save money vs spend it on camera equipment). I mean considering the group we are in, enablement city, someone had to. Marnie aka Doe ;-) In a message dated 3/5/2014 7:40:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, johnsess...@yahoo.com writes: On 3/5/2014 6:20 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. Bob's a Big Boy! He can make up his own mind how to spend his money. At what point in life does it make sense to stop deferring gratification live a little? A big savings account ain't gonna' help him when he's dead. Can't take it with him, and even if he could, it'd probably burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I know it's a sin, but I have other money earmarked for dull stuff like home improvement. These savings are 'mad money' which has been simmering away half-forgotten for a few years at a relatively high interest rate for these days. Reinvesting it doesn't seem worthwhile with interest rates so low, and (forgive me) I probably have too many lenses as it is. So when I received a letter asking me what I want to do with it, I thought Toys!!. Plus, it's my duty as a good citizen to stimulate the economy. I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about the MM as I haven't made up my mind yet. I might still spend it on a trip, and take pictures with the kit I already have. B On 6 Mar 2014, at 21:24, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Someone had to play devil's advocate (re save money vs spend it on camera equipment). I mean considering the group we are in, enablement city, someone had to. Marnie aka Doe ;-) In a message dated 3/5/2014 7:40:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, johnsess...@yahoo.com writes: On 3/5/2014 6:20 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. Bob's a Big Boy! He can make up his own mind how to spend his money. At what point in life does it make sense to stop deferring gratification live a little? A big savings account ain't gonna' help him when he's dead. Can't take it with him, and even if he could, it'd probably burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
It's not a problem, it's just a fact. B On 6 Mar 2014, at 20:06, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: Paul is right. The problem is not within your camera but between our ears (as with so many things in life). On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Mar 6, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Steve Cottrell co...@seeingeye.tv wrote: On 4/3/14, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed: You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. This would be my prime motivation form something like this. I find it really hard to 'think' mono while shooting with a normal colour sensor. I find this odd, in that when shooting BW with a film camera one sees a color scene in the viewfinder. Why would the knowledge that a color sensor lurks within make it harder to think in BW than would looking through the color viewfinder on a film camera? Thinking in BW is just a matter of knowing how colors convert to grey. In truth, the color information is an important part of the process. Of course, it's best to plan your BW shots, rather than just converting the ones that don't work in color. But the hidden sensor doesn't enter into the equation. For this reason I shoot jpegs with the mono set - but it's too damn easy to switch back to colour with the Fujis. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 6 Mar 2014, at 10:22, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 04/03/2014, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ No experience [surprisingly 8 -)] with either the Leica or Ms Ardant but I will say that, if I was investing such a sum, I would be looking for a serious test drive before committing. I've test-driven a few Fannys, quite ardently, without committing. I think they're getting wise to it. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Paul via phone On Mar 6, 2014, at 6:38 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: It's not a problem, it's just a fact. B True. It's only a problem when that organ between the ears misfires. On 6 Mar 2014, at 20:06, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: Paul is right. The problem is not within your camera but between our ears (as with so many things in life). On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Mar 6, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Steve Cottrell co...@seeingeye.tv wrote: On 4/3/14, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed: You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. This would be my prime motivation form something like this. I find it really hard to 'think' mono while shooting with a normal colour sensor. I find this odd, in that when shooting BW with a film camera one sees a color scene in the viewfinder. Why would the knowledge that a color sensor lurks within make it harder to think in BW than would looking through the color viewfinder on a film camera? Thinking in BW is just a matter of knowing how colors convert to grey. In truth, the color information is an important part of the process. Of course, it's best to plan your BW shots, rather than just converting the ones that don't work in color. But the hidden sensor doesn't enter into the equation. For this reason I shoot jpegs with the mono set - but it's too damn easy to switch back to colour with the Fujis. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 06/03/2014 1:50 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote: On 5/3/14, Bill, discombobulated, unleashed: When I shot film, it was almost exclusively black and white, and my composition tended to ignore colour in favour of texture. Since I started shooting digital, with it's automatic colour output, I am finding that my compositions now tend towards taking the colour of the object into account. I don't think I am a better photographer for it, either. My sentiments EXACTLY You've noticed I'm not a better photographer for it too? Why didn't you say something? bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I like New york street scenes. I'm going to visit sometime and do some of my own. My ideal shot would be a family of ducklings atop a geyser blowing through a Bowery manhole cover. B On 6 Mar 2014, at 02:14, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Bob wouldn't be giving the Leica M a second thought if Darren had tempted him with photos of ducklings… or Yosemite… or New York street scenes… But Darren, in a fit of d(a)emonic possession, chose photos of Paris. How cruel! Our intensely Francophilic Bob's soul is in torment, with the ghost of HCB whispering in his ear. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 18:20 , eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. In a message dated 3/4/2014 2:18:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, p...@web-options.com writes: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
Lovely. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 3/4/2014 8:03:23 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, dmann...@gmail.com writes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 6, 2014, at 3:37 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about the MM as I haven't made up my mind yet. I might still spend it on a trip, and take pictures with the kit I already have. Hey Bob, I have the M9, as you're well aware. The MM is virtually the same, other than the specialized sensor. Several of my local friends from the Leica community have MMs, so I've had the opportunity to shoot with one a little bit and see their photos. Between the M9 and your M8, differences in use are trivial … other than the larger format and some nuances of the controls and menus, you'll find it nearly the same experience. The MM's starkness is part of its endearing quality to me. There's little to distinguish it as a super special, fancy camera at all … it's all just plain black, just functional bits, and nothing else. It's the antithesis of camera bling. Most people just glancing at it will see a camera that could be a forty year old lump. Of course, the specialized sensor is really the whole deal with the MM. From what I've seen based on their photos, there really is a substantive improvement in what you can get out of it at the limits for BW work compared to the M9 (or even M Type 240). Better tonal gradation, separation, acutance, etc. Certainly higher sensitivity, ameliorated somewhat by the need to use BW filters to push your tones around with different colors. Optimal exposure and processing the raw files takes slightly different techniques compared to the M9. Oh yes: one thing I've noticed is that the MM is an ideal body to work with all those lovely *older* RF lenses from the '30s, '40s, and '50s … you know, all the ones that do weird things like color shifting and such with the M9. Some of those lenses were designed *long* before color film was popular and are best optimized for monochrome—they sing on the MM. If you love shooting BW work and are willing to dedicate the money to a specialized body for that purpose, I think you would love it. Its use is very much that of shooting black and white film with a digital camera … intentionally limited, constrained by a monochromatic capture. That's part of its genius: constraints breed creativity. I'd considered trading my M9 and some money for an M Monochrom myself, I'd dig it a lot, but I decided to go a different way entirely - Leica R lenses on the Sony A7 is a better fit for my predilections. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
On Mar 7, 2014, at 3:23 am, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: I won't argue about the suckiness of their interface, but I'm not getting coarsely pixelated images when I look at anything on Flickr. I only get a low-res pic while the high-res one is loading. The aspect ratio is all messed up during that time as well. Can't say I'm fond of Flickr but I still prefer it over photo.net. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. Respectfully, Bruce, that's not true. If you read the BH reviews, many people still enjoy using Silver Efex Pro to do their own rendering from the RAW files (which still contain way more information than a mere JPEG does). You've got all kind of creativity left there. After the camera has tonally mapped all the colour info into a grayscale file though, no matter how many bits you have, even 16, you still have lost the ability to creatively map the colour yourself. About all that Silver Efex can do for you at that point is contrast, curves, levels and sharpening/blurring/structure etc. Whereas with the colour info intact you can create pseudo IR images if you want. Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. Respectfully, Bruce, that's not true. If you read the BH reviews, many people still enjoy using Silver Efex Pro to do their own rendering from the RAW files (which still contain way more information than a mere JPEG does). You've got all kind of creativity left there. After the camera has tonally mapped all the colour info into a grayscale file though, no matter how many bits you have, even 16, you still have lost the ability to creatively map the colour yourself. About all that Silver Efex can do for you at that point is contrast, curves, levels and sharpening/blurring/structure etc. Whereas with the colour info intact you can create pseudo IR images if you want. Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. Quite. This is why BW-only cameras don't make any sense to me. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote: Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. Respectfully, Bruce, that's not true. If you read the BH reviews, many people still enjoy using Silver Efex Pro to do their own rendering from the RAW files (which still contain way more information than a mere JPEG does). You've got all kind of creativity left there. After the camera has tonally mapped all the colour info into a grayscale file though, no matter how many bits you have, even 16, you still have lost the ability to creatively map the colour yourself. About all that Silver Efex can do for you at that point is contrast, curves, levels and sharpening/blurring/structure etc. Whereas with the colour info intact you can create pseudo IR images if you want. Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. Quite. This is why BW-only cameras don't make any sense to me. I guess most people here don't remember working with BW film... Working with the Leica MM is very much the same as buying 100 100' rolls of your favorite BW film and shooting with that until you use it up, using filters and processing to adjust the spectral and tonal characteristics of your photos. Costs about the same too. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. On the other hand, those Bayer CFA filters block a lot of light. If you know you want the effect of a yellow filter, for example, it should be[*] advantageous to shoot a monochromatic sensor with a yellow lens filter (which passes both red and green light to every pixel), instead of each pixel just seeing just red, or green, or (unwanted) blue light. There's also Mike Johnston's point that if he's shooting a BW camera, or a camera loaded with BW film, he sees the world differently. That surely affects people to very different degrees, but I think I can understand a bit of it. [*] ceteris paribus, of course, which I'm sure it isn't. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 05/03/2014 11:23 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote: On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. On the other hand, those Bayer CFA filters block a lot of light. If you know you want the effect of a yellow filter, for example, it should be[*] advantageous to shoot a monochromatic sensor with a yellow lens filter (which passes both red and green light to every pixel), instead of each pixel just seeing just red, or green, or (unwanted) blue light. There's also Mike Johnston's point that if he's shooting a BW camera, or a camera loaded with BW film, he sees the world differently. That surely affects people to very different degrees, but I think I can understand a bit of it. [*] ceteris paribus, of course, which I'm sure it isn't. When I shot film, it was almost exclusively black and white, and my composition tended to ignore colour in favour of texture. Since I started shooting digital, with it's automatic colour output, I am finding that my compositions now tend towards taking the colour of the object into account. I don't think I am a better photographer for it, either. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: Quite. This is why BW-only cameras don't make any sense to me. I guess most people here don't remember working with BW film... Well, no, it's precisely because I *do* remember working with BW film! (And still do in my 6x7 sometimes). Buying a BW-only camera is like limiting yourself to only one film emulsion forever. OK, not quite with digital you can change the sensitivity. But you're stuck with only one spectral response curve forever. As Bruse said, you can still use filters, but that's not the same. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 5 Mar 2014, at 17:24, Matthew Hunt m...@pobox.com wrote: [...]. There's also Mike Johnston's point that if he's shooting a BW camera, or a camera loaded with BW film, he sees the world differently. That surely affects people to very different degrees, but I think I can understand a bit of it. That is true for me, and much of the temptation of such a camera is that you have no choice but to think in bw if that's the camera you have with you, just as you had no choice if you were loaded with only Tri-X. And of course some people only ever shot bw film, and as a matter of routine only produce bw digital, so this camera would presumably appeal to that market, albeit a very small one. In my case, when I'm carrying a digital camera now I almost always think in colour terms and it's generally only when I start looking at the stuff in LR that I think something might work well in mono. With a Monochrom I would be deliberately excluding colour from my thinking. However there are other factors to consider, and my mind is not made up yet. I will need to spend some time in my pusher's lair, comparing cameras. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: When I shot film, it was almost exclusively black and white, and my composition tended to ignore colour in favour of texture. Since I started shooting digital, with it's automatic colour output, I am finding that my compositions now tend towards taking the colour of the object into account. I don't think I am a better photographer for it, either. Funny thing is, I sometimes find myself shooting black and white without realizing it. After one trip to New Hampshire I came home and was really disappointed with my photos. Then months later I tried a BW rendering and was startled at how good it looked. I went through all my shots from that trip and virtually all of them looked better as BW, some dramatically so. It became obvious to me that I'd been thinking black white the whole time. As someone whose formative years of photography were spent doing exclusively BW it's easy to slip into that way of seeing and thinking without realizing it. I try to be much more aware of it now and often realize mid-shoot that I'm unconsciously working that way. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
And if you truly want to act 'like' shooting film, well... you know... shoot film. Dario (still thinking a BW-only digital camera makes very little sense) -Messaggio originale- From: Mark Roberts Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 7:51 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Save me from my desire... Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: Quite. This is why BW-only cameras don't make any sense to me. I guess most people here don't remember working with BW film... Well, no, it's precisely because I *do* remember working with BW film! (And still do in my 6x7 sometimes). Buying a BW-only camera is like limiting yourself to only one film emulsion forever. OK, not quite – with digital you can change the sensitivity. But you're stuck with only one spectral response curve forever. As Bruse said, you can still use filters, but that's not the same. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3462 / Database dei virus: 3705/7155 - Data di rilascio: 05/03/2014 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: And if you truly want to act 'like' shooting film, well... you know... shoot film. We have a winner! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:59 AM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: And if you truly want to act 'like' shooting film, well... you know... shoot film. Dario (still thinking a BW-only digital camera makes very little sense) It makes sense in one narrow range. When color is not needed, and you need the most sensitivity and resolution possible out of your sensor, then it makes sense. I suspect that it might give a two Moore-cycle boost in performance. Then there are the bragging rights. Note, however, if we consider camera systems, and he already has a color Leica, then this will allow him to get significantly better black and white performance for the cost of only about 8-15 lenses or so. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Bob W-PDML wrote: That is true for me, and much of the temptation of such a camera is that you have no choice but to think in bw if that's the camera you have with you, just as you had no choice if you were loaded with only Tri-X. And of course some people only ever shot bw film, and as a matter of routine only produce bw digital, so this camera would presumably appeal to that market, albeit a very small one. As someone in that very small market (i.e., (almost) only ever shot bw film, and as a matter of routine (almost) only produce bw digital), I have to say that that camera doesn't appeal to me in the least. In my particular case (and note that this isn't intended to imply *anything* about whether or not this is a good camera for Bob), knowing that my camera is recording a color version of a shot doesn't affect my ability to think in BW in the least (at least as far as I'm consciously aware). The knowledge that I will have extensive creative options in the eventual BW conversion is of huge importance to me. At this point, I would never give that up for a relatively small increase in sensitivity and resolution. - Marco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 06:35:30PM -0800, Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Have you tried a BW rendition? I think in colour 99.99% of the time, but I'm pretty sure you could get quite a good BW image from this shot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Mar 5, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: Note, however, if we consider camera systems, and he already has a color Leica, then this will allow him to get significantly better black and white performance for the cost of only about 8-15 lenses or so. Um, you're not thinking Leica. That can be as few as none or as many as three .. New of course. :-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I shot almost all BW film back in the day, primarily because I wanted to do my own processing. Plus I was shooting for pulp paper car mags that wanted primarily BW 8x10s. I didn’t necessarily think in terms of textures, but rather in terms of how colors would translate to shades of gray. For example, I was painfully aware, for example, that medium red and medium green would come out almost identical without filtration. I still think that way when I’m planning a BW shot, which I sometimes do prior to opening the shutter, but I know I can do the filtration on the computer. Love that part of it. Wouldn’t want to sacrifice that by working with a BW only camera. On Mar 5, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/03/2014 11:23 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote: On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, you can use colour filters on the lens to get back some control. But still not as much as the raw colour output from un-neutered cameras. On the other hand, those Bayer CFA filters block a lot of light. If you know you want the effect of a yellow filter, for example, it should be[*] advantageous to shoot a monochromatic sensor with a yellow lens filter (which passes both red and green light to every pixel), instead of each pixel just seeing just red, or green, or (unwanted) blue light. There's also Mike Johnston's point that if he's shooting a BW camera, or a camera loaded with BW film, he sees the world differently. That surely affects people to very different degrees, but I think I can understand a bit of it. [*] ceteris paribus, of course, which I'm sure it isn't. When I shot film, it was almost exclusively black and white, and my composition tended to ignore colour in favour of texture. Since I started shooting digital, with it's automatic colour output, I am finding that my compositions now tend towards taking the colour of the object into account. I don't think I am a better photographer for it, either. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 5 Mar 2014, at 02:12, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. In a great many creative endeavours, self-imposed (and even externally-imposed) limits can lead to great outcomes. For example, in classical French theatre writers such as Racine worked within very strict limits imposed by the dramatic unities and by the type of vocabulary that was acceptable. I seem to remember my French teacher at school saying that in his entire works Racine used less than 5000 words. Similarly, some of the greatest French plays and drama came about because their writers had to conceal their message beneath layers of meaning in order to avoid censorship. And HCB worked within very strict limits he set himself, and is the defining photographer of the 20th century. Perhaps its a Gallic thing, because Shakespeare did whatever he wanted (within the limits of the sonnet form, of the iambic pentameter, etc). But still, limits are not necessarily a bad thing for a creative person. B With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Bob: Resist! You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Larry, you are comparing two ideal cameras featuring same technology, which is not the case of the Leica Monochrom vs say the Leica M. The former uses a 5-years-old CCD technology, while the latter has a new CMOS sensor. I think that the more you increase ISO sensitivity, the more the BW output of the M will approach the Monochrom. I don't know if/where it will break even and then surpass, but I won't be surprised to see that. However, IQ does not seem the big point here, because those interested in the Monochrom rather deal with the attitude of shooting BW. If I was Bob, perhaps I'd buy an M and set it for saving RAW + BW jpg. However, please check if that's allowed by the camera menus, because with Leica nothing obvious (e.g. knowing which aperture was used for a shot) can be taken for granted. At that point, shoot for obtaining the best possible jpegs - by thinking BW and using hardware filters and such. having the limit of the JPG should be welcome by those thinking that limits are there to push their creativity. But in case... just in case... very rarely... you can always jump back on the RAW for maximum versatility. Who knows? From time to time you could even find interesting color pics in that big RAW tank. Unfaithful to the color of the scene, if filtered while shooting, but interesting anyway. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Larry Colen Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Save me from my desire... On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:59 AM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: And if you truly want to act 'like' shooting film, well... you know... shoot film. Dario (still thinking a BW-only digital camera makes very little sense) It makes sense in one narrow range. When color is not needed, and you need the most sensitivity and resolution possible out of your sensor, then it makes sense. I suspect that it might give a two Moore-cycle boost in performance. Then there are the bragging rights. Note, however, if we consider camera systems, and he already has a color Leica, then this will allow him to get significantly better black and white performance for the cost of only about 8-15 lenses or so. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
The mistake that we are all making is that we are discussing this based on logical and rational reasons. Very few people buy a Leica for logical and rational reasons. Saying that you shouldn’t buy a Leica MM because you lose flexibility in the BW conversion is like saying that you shouldn’t buy a Suzuki Hayabusa because you can only carry one passenger. Bob, if buying that camera is what stirs your soul, and it makes you happy, do it. If it will improve the purity of the experience for you to epoxy a Snobilux elit 23/1.2 R, or a lens baby to it, so that you are committed to only thinking in black and white in one focal length, then do that as well. It’s not the camera I would buy (unless I had the bank account of the Larry from Redwood Shores, but the bank account of the Larry from Felton can’t even justify a K3 this week), but it’s not my money, and I’m not the one that will be using it. I wonder, however, what the used market for them is like. I suspect that a lot of people buy them for purely emotional reasons, and then realize that the vast majority of the time they actually get better pictures out of the color version. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Somehow the words Leica and break even used in the same paragraph seem to have broken my brain. I just can't read past that point... On 3/5/2014 3:34 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Larry, you are comparing two ideal cameras featuring same technology, which is not the case of the Leica Monochrom vs say the Leica M. The former uses a 5-years-old CCD technology, while the latter has a new CMOS sensor. I think that the more you increase ISO sensitivity, the more the BW output of the M will approach the Monochrom. I don't know if/where it will break even and then surpass, but I won't be surprised to see that. However, IQ does not seem the big point here, because those interested in the Monochrom rather deal with the attitude of shooting BW. If I was Bob, perhaps I'd buy an M and set it for saving RAW + BW jpg. However, please check if that's allowed by the camera menus, because with Leica nothing obvious (e.g. knowing which aperture was used for a shot) can be taken for granted. At that point, shoot for obtaining the best possible jpegs - by thinking BW and using hardware filters and such. having the limit of the JPG should be welcome by those thinking that limits are there to push their creativity. But in case... just in case... very rarely... you can always jump back on the RAW for maximum versatility. Who knows? From time to time you could even find interesting color pics in that big RAW tank. Unfaithful to the color of the scene, if filtered while shooting, but interesting anyway. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Larry Colen Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Save me from my desire... On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:59 AM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: And if you truly want to act 'like' shooting film, well... you know... shoot film. Dario (still thinking a BW-only digital camera makes very little sense) It makes sense in one narrow range. When color is not needed, and you need the most sensitivity and resolution possible out of your sensor, then it makes sense. I suspect that it might give a two Moore-cycle boost in performance. Then there are the bragging rights. Note, however, if we consider camera systems, and he already has a color Leica, then this will allow him to get significantly better black and white performance for the cost of only about 8-15 lenses or so. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I have no experience with the camera, but if you want it Bob and can afford it, by all means go for it. My biased opinion is that this camera is more about what it is than what it can do. Like sort of a piece of jewelry that one gets to show off. The idea that it only takes B+W images makes it even more exclusive than the tradional Leica. I'm sure we've all done things for irrational reasons. YMMV Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Save me from my desire... I wouldn't buy it even if I won ALL the lotteries (and anyway I would have to actually buy lottery tickets first). As someone else pointed out, you can make good black white images using a camera that has a color sensor, but you won't [easily] make color images with a camera that has a monochrome sensor. But, it's Bob's money, so he can do with it what he wants. It's not my job to tell him what he can or can't buy. On 3/4/2014 11:21 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: It's a camera that I want but couldn't possibly justify even to my self if I won the pick the richest lottery you know and insert it here. On 3/4/2014 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. In a message dated 3/4/2014 2:18:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, p...@web-options.com writes: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
on 2014-03-05 24:36 Bob W-PDML wrote I used to play (and I use the word loosely) flamenco, but very badly, and when my guitar snapped one day I took it as a warning from the muses, dumped the wreckage, and cut my fingernails. remember that (if you can) when your mind snaps and you buy the Monochrom -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Bob wouldn't be giving the Leica M a second thought if Darren had tempted him with photos of ducklings… or Yosemite… or New York street scenes… But Darren, in a fit of d(a)emonic possession, chose photos of Paris. How cruel! Our intensely Francophilic Bob's soul is in torment, with the ghost of HCB whispering in his ear. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 18:20 , eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. In a message dated 3/4/2014 2:18:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, p...@web-options.com writes: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
Beautiful colors and composition, but as soft as a well-fluffed down pillow. QED, in re the Leica M. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 21:35 , Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
Nope, it's Flickr. Bruce Walker's last few images are pixelated as hell, and won't re-load in a cleaner state. I hate Flickr. The new version is even worse than the old one. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:15 , Rick Womer wrote: Beautiful colors and composition, but as soft as a well-fluffed down pillow. QED, in re the Leica M. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 21:35 , Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
That's very curious, Rick. How are you viewing them? Chrome, Firefox, Safari (Mac OS), iPod (iOS): all look fine. How about on my Tumblr? (Note that after about 5 images down things get NSFW) http://off-axis.brucemwalker.com/ On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Nope, it's Flickr. Bruce Walker's last few images are pixelated as hell, and won't re-load in a cleaner state. I hate Flickr. The new version is even worse than the old one. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:15 , Rick Womer wrote: Beautiful colors and composition, but as soft as a well-fluffed down pillow. QED, in re the Leica M. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 21:35 , Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 3/5/2014 6:20 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: You don't strike me as the saveable type. Whatever, here goes... It's JUST a camera. Think of all the other things you could spend the money on instead. Like a really nice trip, home improvement, more lenses for your current camera, and, well, you know, other stuff. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Or not spend it at all and just save it. Perish the thought. Bob's a Big Boy! He can make up his own mind how to spend his money. At what point in life does it make sense to stop deferring gratification live a little? A big savings account ain't gonna' help him when he's dead. Can't take it with him, and even if he could, it'd probably burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
A MacBook Pro, and a Mac Mini with a 24in monitor; both Safari and Firefox. Larry's and Godfrey's from Feb are coarsely pixelated too. All the pix people are posting anywhere but Flickr look fine, including your Tumblr pix. Flickr sucks. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:43 , Bruce Walker wrote: That's very curious, Rick. How are you viewing them? Chrome, Firefox, Safari (Mac OS), iPod (iOS): all look fine. How about on my Tumblr? (Note that after about 5 images down things get NSFW) http://off-axis.brucemwalker.com/ On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Nope, it's Flickr. Bruce Walker's last few images are pixelated as hell, and won't re-load in a cleaner state. I hate Flickr. The new version is even worse than the old one. Rick On Mar 5, 2014, at 21:15 , Rick Womer wrote: Beautiful colors and composition, but as soft as a well-fluffed down pillow. QED, in re the Leica M. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 21:35 , Bong Manayon wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Save me from my desire...
Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
No personal experience, Bob, but http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=leica+monochromm=tagsss=1s=int (Just a friendly shove down the slippery slope). :) On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 04/03/2014 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ Bob, don't expect anyone here to try to talk you out of buying a very desirable piece of equipment. We aren't well renowned for being a group of terrible enablers for nothing. I think that camera would be a good fit for your photography. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Just go for it, Bob. It's a lovely camera. Forget about the money. G On Mar 4, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Oh, Darren, you chose pix of France for Bob, too! You are naughty. Bob: Resist! You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. Rick On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Darren Addy wrote: No personal experience, Bob, but http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=leica+monochromm=tagsss=1s=int (Just a friendly shove down the slippery slope). :) On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Bob: Resist! You can use a color camera to take monochrome pix, but you can't use a monochrome camera to take color ones. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Don’t do it. It’s a bit of pretentious jewelry for HCB wannabes. Buy a standard Leica and control your BW output by doing your own conversions. Paul On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Yikes! I looked up the going rate and and thought, Hmm. That's a K-3, a new computer, and several nice guitars! On 3/4/2014 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Bruce all the screw-on colour filters still work similarly to how they did in the days of silver halides on acetate ;) On 5 March 2014 13:40, Walt ldott...@gmail.com wrote: Yikes! I looked up the going rate and and thought, Hmm. That's a K-3, a new computer, and several nice guitars! On 3/4/2014 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. Respectfully, Bruce, that's not true. If you read the BH reviews, many people still enjoy using Silver Efex Pro to do their own rendering from the RAW files (which still contain way more information than a mere JPEG does). You've got all kind of creativity left there. Whether it is worth $8K for the camera and several $K more for the decent lenses to put on it is a different matter. I think anyone who spends that is either MAD or perhaps dying and wants to do SOMETHING with the money they have in the bank. Hopefully that is not the case with BobW! -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 10:17:26PM +, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? No but I have experience with the progress that digital sensors are making. I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ You could spend that money now, or wait a few years and get equivalent BW performance for a quarter of the price out of a color system. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: iPhone photo (was: Save me from my desire...)
On Mar 5, 2014, at 3:35 pm, Bong Manayon bongmana...@ymail.com wrote: Speaking of shooting only monochrome/black white, I took my class on a field trip; we were all armed with black white film when I saw this--it had to be in color! So I grabbed my student's iPhone (4--I think)... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/9339168867/ That's very nice. I like the colours. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
It's a camera that I want but couldn't possibly justify even to my self if I won the pick the richest lottery you know and insert it here. On 3/4/2014 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
If it's what you want, you should go ahead and get it and not expect us to tell you that you can't have it. On 3/4/2014 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I wouldn't buy it even if I won ALL the lotteries (and anyway I would have to actually buy lottery tickets first). As someone else pointed out, you can make good black white images using a camera that has a color sensor, but you won't [easily] make color images with a camera that has a monochrome sensor. But, it's Bob's money, so he can do with it what he wants. It's not my job to tell him what he can or can't buy. On 3/4/2014 11:21 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: It's a camera that I want but couldn't possibly justify even to my self if I won the pick the richest lottery you know and insert it here. On 3/4/2014 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
On 5 Mar 2014, at 03:04, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Worse still IMHO is that you must accept the bw rendering that the camera applies. That's like using a single film only for all your shooting and seems awfully limiting. With a colour camera you can use any of dozens of possible conversion techniques from RAW to bw and so get a lot more artistic control over the process. Respectfully, Bruce, that's not true. If you read the BH reviews, many people still enjoy using Silver Efex Pro to do their own rendering from the RAW files (which still contain way more information than a mere JPEG does). You've got all kind of creativity left there. Whether it is worth $8K for the camera and several $K more for the decent lenses to put on it is a different matter. I think anyone who spends that is either MAD or perhaps dying and wants to do SOMETHING with the money they have in the bank. Hopefully that is not the case with BobW! Well, we're all dying. Mad? I'll leave that diagnosis to my team of shrinks and straitjacket tailors. I already have a M8, a M3 and half a dozen Leica lenses, so nothing extra to buy. I'm torn between the Monochrom and the M typ 240. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
I don't expect anyone to try and talk me out of it - the subject line is just a tease - but if anyone has experience of using one I'd be interested to hear it. B On 5 Mar 2014, at 05:33, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote: I wouldn't buy it even if I won ALL the lotteries (and anyway I would have to actually buy lottery tickets first). As someone else pointed out, you can make good black white images using a camera that has a color sensor, but you won't [easily] make color images with a camera that has a monochrome sensor. But, it's Bob's money, so he can do with it what he wants. It's not my job to tell him what he can or can't buy. On 3/4/2014 11:21 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: It's a camera that I want but couldn't possibly justify even to my self if I won the pick the richest lottery you know and insert it here. On 3/4/2014 5:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
If you don't like it, you could always drop it into a bin like you did with the M8 in Paris... http://www.mitch.myzen.co.uk/ParisPDML2010/slides/_IGP5159.html On 4 March 2014 22:17, Bob W-PDML p...@web-options.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Save me from my desire...
Or, looked at another way, that K-3, computer and several guitars is a Leica monochrom! I used to play (and I use the word loosely) flamenco, but very badly, and when my guitar snapped one day I took it as a warning from the muses, dumped the wreckage, and cut my fingernails. B On 5 Mar 2014, at 02:41, Walt ldott...@gmail.com wrote: Yikes! I looked up the going rate and and thought, Hmm. That's a K-3, a new computer, and several nice guitars! On 3/4/2014 4:17 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: Does anyone here have any experience of using the Leica Monochrom, and cares to tell all? I am about to cash in a matured savings account, and the Leica site is doing nasty things to my mind, like Fanny Ardant doing a slow striptease in my door jamb... http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/ B --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
