Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Thomas Hallgren wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: What happens when the FSF inevitably removes the license clause and makes it pure GPL? I'm sorry but I don't follow. You're saying that it's inevitable that FSF will remove the 'libgcc' exception from libgcj? Why on earth would they do that? My

[HACKERS] postgresql.conf basic analysis tool

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Hammond
Is there any interest in a basic perl script that would read through a postgresql.conf file and calculate approximate memory (and shared memory) usage? Also, are there any other (simple for now) things I should look at in the process? Asking because I'm getting annoyed with doing this by hand

Re: [HACKERS] pre_load_libraries

2006-07-13 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 06:47:56PM -0700, Marc Munro wrote: On a related note, I can see no way to release Veil's shared memory segment when postgres is shut down. Perhaps I should be thinking about making the management of such shared memory segments something that postgres does on behalf

Re: [HACKERS] Implied Functional Index use

2006-07-13 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DCP SD
- add a new boolean to pg_operator to allow us to define which operators offer true equality ... This would be useful for other purposes too, as we keep coming up against what's the equality operator for this datatype problems. However, the restriction to true equality, such that

Re: [HACKERS] Implied Functional Index use

2006-07-13 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 22:34 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: More generally, I don't believe in hacks that only work for a small number of built-in types: to me, that's prima facie evidence that you haven't thought the problem through. I agree an attempt at a simple definition of the required

[HACKERS] RESET CONNECTION?

2006-07-13 Thread Mario Weilguni
Will this patch make it into 8.2? http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2004-12/msg00228.php It's a really nice feature, would be extremly useful with tools like pgpool. Am Freitag, 7. Juli 2006 19:13 schrieb Bruce Momjian: There are roughly three weeks left until the feature freeze on

Re: [HACKERS] [PERFORM] Sun Donated a Sun Fire T2000 to the PostgreSQL

2006-07-13 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Tatsuo Ishii [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting. We (some Japanese companies including SRA OSS, Inc. Japan) did some PG scalability testing using a Unisys's big 16 (physical) CPU machine and found PG scales up to 8 CPUs. However beyond 8 CPU PG does not scale anymore. The result

Re: [HACKERS] Implied Functional Index use

2006-07-13 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DCP SD
There is a problem of implication here, AFAICS: When a user SQL asks WHERE col1 = 7 which equality level is meant when several exist? Well, the operator must be unique, so there is no problem. Unique in the sense that an operator with the same name ('=' in this case) and argument

Re: [HACKERS] postgresql.conf basic analysis tool

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Cramer
Andrew, Josh did something like this and I wrote some java to do some of it. It's in a project called pgconfigurator (I think) dave On 12-Jul-06, at 2:46 PM, Andrew Hammond wrote: Is there any interest in a basic perl script that would read through a postgresql.conf file and calculate

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Josh Berkus
Thomas, OK. You're the one that suggested this submission attempt. There's not much point in pursuing it if you have second thoughts. Yes. I was unclear on the requirements. I was thinking of it being just like PL/perl. Right, something that would allow PL/Java to participate in a build

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com wrote: I'm starting to have second thoughts about this suggestion. I was enthusiastic about it at the summit, but I was unaware of the sheer size of PL/Java. 38,000 lines of code is 8% of the total size of Postgresql ... for *one* PL. Josh, I still

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Stephen Frost
* Joshua D. Drake ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Keep in mind that that there are all kinds of oddities when mixing licenses. Is Sun's JVM GPL compatible? If not, the plJava can't use it. I'm about 95% sure that Sun's JVM *isn't* GPL compatible... Makes for a pretty odd situation if someone

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/12/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't really think anyone would want to run both, but that's just my opinion. On what grounds do you not think that? Too much Java overhead on one database and PL/J isn't that stable. I've run into several crash problems with it before. PL/J

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Cramer
On 13-Jul-06, at 9:22 AM, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/13/06, Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com wrote: I'm starting to have second thoughts about this suggestion. I was enthusiastic about it at the summit, but I was unaware of the sheer size of PL/Java. 38,000 lines of code is 8% of the total

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 15:29, Stephen Frost wrote: It's not the PostgreSQL project's problem, that's true, but it certainly becomes an issue for distributions. Java as a PL ends up being a pretty odd case.. If there isn't anything in the PL code itself which forces a dependency beyond gcj

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. Unless we are going to create a complete distribution with a unified build, or at least a way

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Lukas Smith wrote: However I do think that PostgreSQL is missing out in getting new users aboard that are in the early stages of evalutation and simply only consider features that they get along with a default installation (mostly due to lack of better knowledge about places like

[HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
Forwarded to -hackers. Jonah H. Harris wrote: Again, I guess it comes down to what we're willing to let go. If we want new users who want certain functionality in the system to be happy, we include it. Otherwise, we do as we do now, keeping tons of projects on pgfoundry and hoping a user

Re: [HACKERS] [PERFORM] Sun Donated a Sun Fire T2000 to the PostgreSQL

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Tatsuo Ishii [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 18% in s_lock is definitely bad :-(. Were you able to determine which LWLock(s) are accounting for the contention? Yes. We were interested in that too. Some people did addtional tests to determin that. I don't have the report handy now. I will report

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't EDB sponsor pl/java ? I would think that might make you somewhat subjective ? I believe we do, but that has nothing to do with my statements. I've used both PL/Java and PL/J before coming to EnterpriseDB and am making true observations.

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread mark
On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 09:29:06AM -0400, Jonah H. Harris wrote: I'm being objective here, and PL/J is not nearly as stable or well-maintained... that means a lot to me or to anyone who looks at using a Java PL. Do we intend to ship both and say that one is less capable? Have you used either

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. IMHO, we should be shipping the JDBC driver... but that's another matter entirely. Unless

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Cramer
On 13-Jul-06, at 9:29 AM, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/12/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't really think anyone would want to run both, but that's just my opinion. On what grounds do you not think that? Too much Java overhead on one database and PL/J isn't that stable. I've

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. Unless we are going to create a complete distribution with a unified

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Rod Taylor
On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 11:03 -0400, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/13/06, Lukas Smith wrote: However I do think that PostgreSQL is missing out in getting new users aboard that are in the early stages of evalutation and simply only consider features that they get along with a default

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Am Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2006 16:48 schrieb Jonah H. Harris: What I mean is I think it makes absolute sense to keep a very stable, very well maintained core PostgreSQL distribution which is that anyone should base their distributions on. I don't want to get into an operating system bout here,

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 17:03, Tom Lane wrote: [...] I don't know what other people who do core development feel about that --- but I dislike the idea that when someone changes such an API, the buildfarm will go all red because there's only one person with the ability to fix PL/Java. But the

[HACKERS] New shared memory hooks proposal (was Re: pre_load_libraries)

2006-07-13 Thread Marc Munro
On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 01:13 -0300, Tom Lane wrote: Marc Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... A better solution from my point of view would be to simply move the call to process_preload_libraries to a point after shared memory has been set up. Is there some reason this could not be

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread A.M.
On Thu, July 13, 2006 11:03 am, Jonah H. Harris wrote: This is my point exactly. As with many things, we keep skirting the real issue by going with an improve the smaller component approach such as promote pgfoundry more. I have never seen this approach work, but maybe someone has an example

Re: [HACKERS] Updateable views for 8.2 or 8.3?

2006-07-13 Thread Bernd Helmle
--On Mittwoch, Juli 12, 2006 20:58:08 -0500 Jaime Casanova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if nobody step up i can do the list. i think this is the last patch that he post: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2006-03/msg00586.php The code drifted since then in some parts. I'll sent a

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: [pgsql-hackers-win32] Build with Visual Studio MSVC

2006-07-13 Thread Gurjeet Singh
I just recently came to know that geocities.com is down. It is accessible from geocities.yahoo.com though, but my site is still not accessible. I had deleted my local copy, relying on the gecities, and almost lost it; but then I twisted some knobs in geocities.yahoo.com to get the file back...

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread mark
On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 11:03:27AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: The only argument I find interesting for including the PLs in core (which has zilch to do with how any particular packager ships them) is that it's easier to do maintenance that way: if we make a change in an API that affects the PLs,

Re: [HACKERS] Updateable views for 8.2 or 8.3?

2006-07-13 Thread Bernd Helmle
--On Mittwoch, Juli 12, 2006 09:30:38 -0700 Joe Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jaime Casanova wrote: is anybody working on the Bernd Helmle's updateable views patch? or know what the status of this is? I'm still working on this and trying to get all open issues done for 8.2 feature

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only argument I find interesting for including the PLs in core (which has zilch to do with how any particular packager ships them) is that it's easier to do maintenance that way: if we make a change in an API that affects the PLs, we can change

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Thomas Hallgren
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the subject of 38K lines of code, much that isn't C (going by memory, I apologize if this is wrong), how many of these lines could be/should be shared between PL/Java and PL/J? It seems to me that the general concepts should be in common, and that it is only how the

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Cramer
On 13-Jul-06, at 1:02 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also cannot maintain Java, but we could do something like we do with WIN32, where outside folks submit patches to fix problems. However, a win32 failure breaks only the win32 buildfarm members ...

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
No matter what we want people to do, if someone wants PostgreSQL, they go to PostgreSQL's site, download PostgreSQL, and install PostgreSQL. The fact is, most people generally don't read the, don't see it in the distribution, check out pgfoundry-like text. Sure, people should read the docs,

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Csaba Nagy wrote: On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 15:29, Stephen Frost wrote: It's not the PostgreSQL project's problem, that's true, but it certainly becomes an issue for distributions. Java as a PL ends up being a pretty odd case.. If there isn't anything in the PL code itself which forces a

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
When someone downloads the PostgreSQL server on Windows... we know they're probably going to be using ODBC... so we should ship it; but which one? How do we determine which one as a community? Actually, this comes back to another scenario... There has been a longstanding practice of letting

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also cannot maintain Java, but we could do something like we do with WIN32, where outside folks submit patches to fix problems. However, a win32 failure breaks only the win32 buildfarm members ... Basically my point here is that I see no synergy from

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
I'm being objective here, and PL/J is not nearly as stable or well-maintained... that means a lot to me or to anyone who looks at using a Java PL. Doesn't EDB sponsor pl/java ? I would think that might make you somewhat subjective ? Dave, I don't think so in this situation. It is in EDB's

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. I do not know exactly if Bizgres could be considered just that? Or maybe it could get promoted to be

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. Unless we are going to create a complete distribution with a unified

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Lane wrote: And in that light, the fact that PL/Java includes a huge whack of non-C code is very significant. *I* won't take responsibility for fixing PL/Java when I break it, because I don't know Java well enough. That's the heart of the

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Taking a step back here, I see two points in favor of including PL/Java or something like it into the main CVS: 1. Build farm support It seems that eventually one would like to have build farm support for many things. I can see build farm support being useful for the ODBC driver or Postgis,

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't believe anyone has offered any suggestions or good alternatives other than what we have now; keeping high-profile projects like PL/Java on gborg/pgfoundry (which sucks IMHO). This is really the whole issue right here: you want a monolithic core

[HACKERS] Speed check II

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
Just confirming that its fixed ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ---(end

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Bort, Paul
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Eisentraut Taking a step back here, I see two points in favor of including PL/Java or something like it into the main CVS: 1. Build farm support It seems that eventually one would like to have build farm

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com Cc: Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Fetter [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Satoshi Nagayasu [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED];

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. Unless we are going to create a complete

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread mark
On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 01:02:16PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: PL/Java will improve the visibility of PL/Java to people who won't go looking for it. That's fine, but ultimately that's a packaging argument not a development argument. The people who think PL/Java is an essential checklist item

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Stephen Frost
* Joshua D. Drake ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Csaba Nagy wrote: On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 15:29, Stephen Frost wrote: It's not the PostgreSQL project's problem, that's true, but it certainly becomes an issue for distributions. Java as a PL ends up being a pretty odd case.. If there isn't

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Luke Lonergan
Bruce, On 7/7/06 10:13 AM, Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are roughly three weeks left until the feature freeze on August 1. If people are working on items, they should be announced before August 1, and the patches submitted by August 1. If the patch is large, it should be

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Dunstan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why I was thinking that the problem is that the backend (SPI?) API isn't exposed as native methods in the required languages. If just the SPI API was exposed from the core to the languages, the maintenance effort and size should be less, and the add-ons would

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is really the whole issue right here: you want a monolithic core distribution. I cannot begin to list the number of things wrong with that approach, but suffice it to say that that's not the way PostgreSQL is moving. I'm not going to argue at

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is why I was thinking that the problem is that the backend (SPI?) API isn't exposed as native methods in the required languages. If just the SPI API was exposed from the core to the languages, the maintenance effort and size should be less, and the add-ons would

[HACKERS] Proper Method for using LockAcquire

2006-07-13 Thread Chris Bowlby
Hi All, I've been working on a small module that I will be pluging into my local PostreSQL 8.x database and am in need of doing some table locking. At this time, I've used various other examples to no avail and was wondering what the proper method for aquiring a table lock within the module

Re: [HACKERS] Updateable views for 8.2 or 8.3?

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Bernd Helmle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still working on this and trying to get all open issues done for 8.2 feature freeze. Sweet! -- Jonah H. Harris, Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1300 EnterpriseDB Corporation| fax: 732.331.1301 33 Wood Ave S, 2nd Floor

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: The right way to proceed is what was mentioned in another message: work harder at educating packagers about which non-core projects are worth including in their packages. I have to confess contributing to the problem, as I'm not currently including eg. Slony in the Red Hat

[HACKERS] buildfarm future

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Dunstan
I intended to post this anyway as a followup to the conference session, but I have been spurred to do it nowby the Pl/J(ava) discussion. I outlined a number of possible directions for buildfarm, and we had a good discussion. Based on that, my current intention is to make provision for the

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 01:02:16PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: PL/Java will improve the visibility of PL/Java to people who won't go looking for it. That's fine, but ultimately that's a packaging argument not a development argument. The people who think PL/Java is an

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: I don't believe anyone has offered any suggestions or good alternatives other than what we have now; keeping high-profile projects like PL/Java on gborg/pgfoundry (which sucks IMHO). Why? What is being discussed here is *purely* a packaging issue

Re: [HACKERS] Proper Method for using LockAcquire

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Chris Bowlby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been working on a small module that I will be pluging into my local PostreSQL 8.x database and am in need of doing some table locking. At this time, I've used various other examples to no avail and was wondering what the proper method for

Re: [HACKERS] Proper Method for using LockAcquire

2006-07-13 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 03:01:31PM -0300, Chris Bowlby wrote: Hi All, I've been working on a small module that I will be pluging into my local PostreSQL 8.x database and am in need of doing some table locking. At this time, I've used various other examples to no avail and was wondering

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/13/06, Lukas Smith wrote: However I do think that PostgreSQL is missing out in getting new users aboard that are in the early stages of evalutation and simply only consider features that they get along with a default installation (mostly due to

[HACKERS] AIX buildfarm failure

2006-07-13 Thread Rocco Altier
I am seeing buildfarm failures on AIX because stdio.h is being included before pg_config.h (which has the definition of _LARGE_FILES). The problem is stemming from math.h including stdlib.h, which (after several more inclusions) ends up including stdio.h. This is where the fgetpos64 different

[HACKERS] 8.2 features?

2006-07-13 Thread Andrew Dunstan
What is the state of the following items that have been previously discussed? . MERGE (at least in PK case) . multiple values clauses for INSERT . recursive WITH queries Thanks andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Because, the fact is that it's a PITA and many people don't even go far enough to look. If major components of PostgreSQL were included in the core, it would make it much easier for people; especially those familiar with

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. This has been suggested before ... nobody seems to want

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
I don't think we should include everything, and I belive that collapse is debatable. The important part is how the distro itself is managed. One can easily create a core distribution which includes PL/Java, ODBC, JDBC, etc. All of them don't have to reside in the same CVS tree, but they can

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/13/06, Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The official JDBC driver is not being shipped with the project for exactly the same reasons, I fail to see any compelling reason to ship either java PL. IMHO, we should be shipping the JDBC driver...

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Rod Taylor wrote: A slight restructuring of the FTP tree should probably be made. It's currently very easy to find the main pgsql, pgadmin and odbc components. Finding pl/java (what the heck is that gborg or pgfoundry project?) is pretty difficult. The gborg vs

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: I don't think we should include everything, and I belive that collapse is debatable. The important part is how the distro itself is managed. One can easily create a core distribution which includes PL/Java, ODBC, JDBC, etc. All of them don't have

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Major component for whom exactly? What %age of PostgreSQL users are using pl/Java? Are using Java, period? Got me, but I don't think you have the facts to dispute it either. As I said, we're discussing this in a vacuum. There is only

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. I do not know exactly if Bizgres could be considered just

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, that goes to your 'kitchen sink distribution' ... its been suggested many times before, nobody cared enough to run with the idea and do something about it ... do you? I certainly care, but I don't have the time. Which, I know, is

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: Sounds kinda like our discussions: You've got to download it. And then you have to go check the website. Download some drivers and PLs. You have to check your version dependencies. Compile your binaries and/or install them. Probably do that once or

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Because, the fact is that it's a PITA and many people don't even go far enough to look. If major components of PostgreSQL were included in the core, it would make it much easier for people;

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; postgres hackers pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Sent: 13/07/06 20:06 Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze The gborg vs pgfoundry

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'k, but, again, this comes to someone (you?) stepping forward and dedicating the time/energy to developing a 'mega distribution', and being willing to provide support for it True. Then maybe we should just all work together to make a

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: No matter what we want people to do, if someone wants PostgreSQL, they go to PostgreSQL's site, download PostgreSQL, and install PostgreSQL. The fact is, most people generally don't read the, don't see it in the distribution, check out

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, the correct way to say that is if major components were included in the readily-available distributions of Postgres then newbies would find it easier to find them. OK, I agree. Damn semantics :) That doesn't lead to concluding that we should

Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features?

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the state of the following items that have been previously discussed? . MERGE (at least in PK case) No submitted patch; no one working on it AFAIK; doesn't look like something that could get done in the next three weeks. . multiple values

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Major component for whom exactly? What %age of PostgreSQL users are using pl/Java? Are using Java, period? There is only one *major component* and that is the RDBMS itself ... everything else is an add on specific to each end users requirements ... in all of my years of hosting

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 7/13/06, Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Because, the fact is that it's a PITA and many people don't even go far enough to look. If major components of PostgreSQL were included in the core, it would make it much easier for people; especially those

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. This has been suggested before

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
So why put the load on the Core distro? Agreed ... but, maybe on our FTP/download pages, we should add a link for 'Distributions', that would include mammothpostgresql.org and Ubuntu? so that ppl knew about them? We do it for support related stuff ... That is a great idea :) Joshua D.

Re: [HACKERS] AIX buildfarm failure

2006-07-13 Thread Tom Lane
Rocco Altier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I move math.h down after postgres.h in nodeHash.c, the problem goes away. Bruce, you broke it. Have you forgotten the fundamental inclusion rule? postgres.h (or postgres_fe.h, or c.h) first, then system headers, then our own other headers.

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. I do not know exactly if Bizgres

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Sounds kinda like our discussions: You've got to download it. And then you have to go check the website. Download some drivers and PLs. You have to check your version dependencies. Compile your binaries and/or install them. Probably do that once or twice. It's just so easy. And so simple. I

Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features?

2006-07-13 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 7/13/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . recursive WITH queries I believe Jonah has given up on fixing the originally-submitted patch, but he mentioned at the code sprint that non-recursive WITH is potentially doable in time for 8.2. Not sure if that's a sufficiently important case to

Re: [HACKERS] RESET CONNECTION?

2006-07-13 Thread Bruce Momjian
Mario Weilguni wrote: Will this patch make it into 8.2? http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2004-12/msg00228.php It's a really nice feature, would be extremly useful with tools like pgpool. No, it will not because RESET CONNECTION can mess up interface code that doesn't want the

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Chris Browne
kleptog@svana.org (Martijn van Oosterhout) writes: On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 01:26:30PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: The right way to proceed is what was mentioned in another message: work harder at educating packagers about which non-core projects are worth including in their packages. I have to

Re: [HACKERS] Three weeks left until feature freeze

2006-07-13 Thread Bruce Momjian
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Rod Taylor wrote: A slight restructuring of the FTP tree should probably be made. It's currently very easy to find the main pgsql, pgadmin and odbc components. Finding pl/java (what the heck is that gborg or pgfoundry project?) is pretty

Re: [HACKERS] AIX buildfarm failure

2006-07-13 Thread Bruce Momjian
Fixed. --- Tom Lane wrote: Rocco Altier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I move math.h down after postgres.h in nodeHash.c, the problem goes away. Bruce, you broke it. Have you forgotten the fundamental inclusion rule?

[HACKERS] monolithic distro (was: Re: Fwd: Three weeks left until feature freeze)

2006-07-13 Thread Lukas Smith
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. I do not know exactly if Bizgres could be considered just that? Or maybe it

Re: [HACKERS] AIX buildfarm failure

2006-07-13 Thread Rocco Altier
Now it dies on nodeSubplan.c... I am guessing there will be others as well. Perhaps a check to make sure postgres.h is first in the includes can be added to the include checking scripts you have been updating? Thanks, -rocco -Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian

Re: [HACKERS] monolithic distro (was: Re: Fwd: Three weeks left

2006-07-13 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Lukas Smith wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: Aside from obviously the big issue of who maintains all the pgfoundry stuff, I also think that the PostgreSQL family would benefit from a distribution that is more and the kitchen sink style. I do not know exactly if Bizgres

Re: [HACKERS] monolithic distro

2006-07-13 Thread Lukas Kahwe Smith
Marc G. Fournier wrote: But, that isn't our role ... that should be the role of whomever takes on the role of 'maintainer' for such a monolithic distribution ... its no more our role to decide that pl/Java is better or worse then pl/J ... our role is to provide that core for everyone else to

Re: [HACKERS] AIX buildfarm failure

2006-07-13 Thread Bruce Momjian
Rocco Altier wrote: Now it dies on nodeSubplan.c... I am guessing there will be others as well. I check them all the math.h mentions. --- Perhaps a check to make sure postgres.h is first in the includes can be

  1   2   >