[Pharo-users] [OT] Reminder about quoting/top-posting

Hi, Please apologize the digression, but these days there were a lot of interesting threads with LOTS of replies from different members. Can I ask for more trimming of the quoted text and/or emails replied to? The follow up of some replies was hard because they were nested deep into a chain of

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Hilaire wrote: > Sometime Pharo frustrate me a lot, I felt it too in the message from > Benoit, in the other hand its community is very kind and always helpful. So > it is not about blaming people. > > In my opinion, there are too much things

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. And only bad OOP programmers count number of classes Now I will not reply to provocation. So I just trashed this thread because it goes nowhere. Sorry

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Sometime Pharo frustrate me a lot, I felt it too in the message from Benoit, in the other hand its community is very kind and always helpful. So it is not about blaming people. In my opinion, there are too much things pushed at the same time in Pharo. You can't push too much things into the

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On 13 April 2018 at 21:14, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 15:04, Andrei Stebakov wrote: >> >> Can you make the video available online? >> >> >>

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Herbert Vojčík wrote: Just a bit of a bikeshedding here: But I prefer these names: * Calypso System Browser Calypso Browser Display * Calypso Debugger Calypso Debugger Display Calypso Debugger Gear * Iceberg Source Control Management\ Iceberg SCM Display Iceberg SCM Gear * Zinc

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: On 13/04/2018 10:41, p...@highoctane.be wrote: A somewhat unique name makes it easier to google for it (like Roassal Pharo, or DeepTraverser Pharo, or Zinc Pharo). These will give us hits that are relevant. Try System Browser, Inspector... Just a bit of a

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

On 13 April 2018 at 21:14, Marcus Denker wrote: > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 15:04, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > > Can you make the video available online? > > > https://youtu.be/A9H8jsSnBKM > I like the new "New Repo", particularly additional of GitHub

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 11:12, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > EstebanLM wrote >> I dream with even more classes: Selector, Protocol (we already have it, >> but we need to use it), etc., etc., etc. >> I will always prefer a class that defines a concept than a non-reified >> usage of generic classes. "Objects all

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

EstebanLM wrote > I dream with even more classes: Selector, Protocol (we already have it, > but we need to use it), etc., etc., etc. > I will always prefer a class that defines a concept than a non-reified > usage of generic classes. Yes!!! - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from:

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 10:41, p...@highoctane.be wrote: > A somewhat unique name makes it easier to google for it (like Roassal > Pharo, or DeepTraverser Pharo, or Zinc Pharo).  > These will give us hits that are relevant. > > Try System Browser, Inspector... > > And Apple has worked with NSObject and

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

EstebanLM wrote > I would like to be able to add “tags" to tools, to be able to say: > Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info Yes! That is what I was trying to get at in the other thread [1], but not explaining very well. The thing is that this should be *the default view* of the system

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

A somewhat unique name makes it easier to google for it (like Roassal Pharo, or DeepTraverser Pharo, or Zinc Pharo). These will give us hits that are relevant. Try System Browser, Inspector... And Apple has worked with NSObject and stuff like that without too much trouble (at a much larger scale

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

I am not complaining about these exchanges, which were interesting indeed. Just that P7 is still in flux and not something I can use in some way for my projects. No problem with that, just that I cannot afford using it in projects for clients, it is too much of a risk. So, I am not testing it as

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 15:04, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > > Can you make the video available online? https://youtu.be/A9H8jsSnBKM > Another question, is there a tutorial on Iceberg? For the updated UI not yet. From the “how do I commit a PR to Pharo” perspective, I

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

Andrei Stebakov wrote > Can you make the video available online? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9H8jsSnBKM - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

Can you make the video available online? Another question, is there a tutorial on Iceberg? On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 03:10 Marcus Denker wrote: > This is today > > 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00) > > There is a calendar entry to download at: >

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:47, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > > > > On 13/04/2018 09:39, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> >>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn >> > wrote: >>> >>> I find NPM as obscure as Pharo,

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 09:39, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn > > wrote: >> >> I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse >> (wth does abt or sst stand for?).  Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

How many subsystems that do pretty much the same thing exist in Java?  Or Programmable Hyperlinked Pasta?   Try this:  do a set of Moose queries on a largish Pharo subsystem, say GLORP, then do the same on EclipseLink, Toplink or Hibernate, either with or without the JPA interfaces.   Even with

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn wrote: > > I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse (wth does > abt or sst stand for?). Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the names relate to what > they do? yes… but we actually have a problem there. I would

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse (wth does abt or sst stand for?).  Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the names relate to what they do?   Electron is as obscure as Phobos (although a phobia with web pages turned into desktop apps may be appropriate). AndrewOn Fri,

[Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Sprint Apr 20

Pharo Sprint Apr 20 https://association.pharo.org/event-2789579 We will organize a Pharo sprint / Moose dojo Apr 20 , starting at 10:00am. (Local Time Paris). Goals of this sprint: • Pharo 7 issues Remote Sprint Remotely, you can join us on Discord. During the

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 09:18, Peter Uhnák wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe > wrote: > > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > to,

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

2018-04-13 13:01 GMT+02:00 Marcus Denker : > > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk wrote: > >> > >> I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 09:05, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > to, well, whatever they are.  I presume there is > somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. > Can some kind

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Unfortunately there probably isn't one list. Its hard to unlearn what is accumulated and easy to take for granted what we know is obvious to everyone. Maybe we need a "Glossary" at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/tree/master/wiki where newcomers can add items for others to fill in. cheers

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > to, well, whatever they are. I presume there is > somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

With new Traits we have some issues which we are slowly fixing. Nice thing that fixes are quite simple and clean and covered by tests. I guess it was not like that before. So Pablo did very good job here. For this concrete case with implementors there is already issue 21652

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, to, well, whatever they are. I presume there is somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. Can some kind soul tell me where it is? On 13 April 2018 at 23:01,

Re: [Pharo-users] Progress bar for ZnClient>>#downloadTo:

On 13/04/2018 13:50, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > All good and well, I understand your point, but as a general rule, I don't > want to add UI code to Zn, it is too fundamental for minimal/kernel//headless > images. > > Hi, It could be useful to add this kind of methods via extensions in

Re: [Pharo-users] Progress bar for ZnClient>>#downloadTo:

> On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:02, Ben Coman wrote: > > > > On 12 April 2018 at 18:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Ben, > > You disappoint me, as I would expect you to trace senders/users of > #signalProgress: ;-) > > :P > Yeah I knew I was being slack.

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk wrote: >> >> I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that >> distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Btw, in my fascination with messing around, the 32 bit version of Pharo 7 for Windows runs better on OS/2 v.5 (yes, it still exists, it was released last June). Probably because its Win32 subsystem is more compatible with Win32 apps than Windows 10. Andrew From: Benoit St-Jean

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Maybe I’m missing something, or maybe I’m not ‘everyone’, but I’ve only had a few problems with 32 bit Pharo 7 and Windows. Btw Windows 10 “64 bit” is about as 64 bit as Windows 95 was 32 bit. i.e. not very. Most of the issues center around Moose, not the core Pharo. But I’m only playing

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:19, Joe Shirk wrote: > > I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that > distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say > Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. > > But the vocabulary doesn't.

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the always expanding bewildering library

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13 April 2018 at 17:07, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Benoit St-Jean > To: Any question about pharo is welcome , > Esteban Lorenzano

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

--- Begin Message --- For those interested. Created the issues 21686, 21693, 21695, 21696. And more to come... - Benoît St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

"Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss" [1] Experiencing instability, crashes and data loss in the alpha version of a software, including Pharo alpha, is to be expected and nothing to be surprised about. The support of the Pharo stable version (currently 6.1) has

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13 April 2018 at 11:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 08:43, p...@highoctane.be wrote: >> >> I consider Pharo 7 as a great piece of kit but unusable for my current work. >> There are many new things to learn in there. When is too much too much? >> Also,

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 11:26, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote: Do you expect a cleaning of the Kernel without any break during alpha version? This version introduce a new message browser, new Traits, more modularization of the kernel and some cleaning of the Kernel. I see a lot of reason why it

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:26, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users > wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > Date: 13 April 2018 at 11:26:09 CEST > To: Esteban Lorenzano > Cc: Any

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

ok, you want to have the last word. Go ahead. You have it. What you do not have is my attention anymore. cheers! Esteban > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:26, Benoit St-Jean wrote: > > BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right > from the start? It

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

--- Begin Message --- BTW, why put an .exe installer for Windows available when it crashes right from the start? It just doesn't work at all.  Period.  For everyone. And I thought looking for senders of a method was something we mastered a long time ago, like starting with Smalltalk-76.  Am I

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean wrote: > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. > and btw… which part of ALPHA you do not get? Esteban

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Can I expect a PR to help? I tell you again: That tone does not helps your case, please calm down. Esteban > On 13 Apr 2018, at 11:07, Benoit St-Jean wrote: > > "You cannot take an alpha version and expect production quality." > > I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

--- Begin Message --- "You cannot take an alpha version and expect production quality." I'm on Windows 10, using Pharo 7.0 alpha 32 bit. Can I at least expect to be able to save code in my local Monticello repository ? It bombs. I just reported a bug! Can I expect the Windows installer for Pharo

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 08:43, p...@highoctane.be wrote: > > I consider Pharo 7 as a great piece of kit but unusable for my current work. > There are many new things to learn in there. When is too much too much? Also, > simplifications are breaking things in unexpected ways (like the #atEnd >

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Moreover, we are increasing the system modularity so more classes in the IDE does not mean that you need to have them all loaded. -- Pavel 2018-04-13 10:39 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > As a general note, I have to say that I find amusing how people are often > annoyed

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 10:31, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > > On 13/04/2018 07:53, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote: > > Hi, > > I don't have time to answer to everything but I can give some details: > > - Nautilus will be removed when Calypso will be really stable

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

As a general note, I have to say that I find amusing how people are often annoyed about the growing size of the image and the amount of classes. We have an image that contains a full IDE which incorpores more and more modern capabilities. And you want that to stay small and fewer classes? I’m

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13/04/2018 07:53, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote: Hi, I don't have time to answer to everything but I can give some details: - Nautilus will be removed when Calypso will be really stable (During the Calypso development if calypso breaks, you need an other browser to replace it) - The

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 10:25, Ben Coman wrote: > > On 13 April 2018 at 13:53, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users > > wrote: > Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I > really

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

Hi, > On 13 Apr 2018, at 07:53, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users > wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean > Subject: Where do we go now ? > Date: 13 April 2018 at 07:53:46 CEST > To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

On 13 April 2018 at 13:53, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I > really don't know where we're heading. > > Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, >

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

It is true that there are many things in there. New tools have to be finished before the old ones can be removed (there was a time where refactorings were not in Calypso). But for a real project, one is settling for a version and a toolset. I am not really keen to migrate Pharo projects from