cal. And you don't need *any* magic to display the boxes.
So, when will you be implementing a prototype :-) ?
--- David A. Wheeler
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>I suppose I could define a function that swaps the first 2 arguments
>then
>evaluates. In newlisp, this won't cause any slowdown.
Curly-infix does a little more than that. Feel free to steal its code, it is
under the MIT license.
If there are only three arguments, then it does indeed just
as the underlying Scheme is. It probably hasn't
been adequately tested that way, but if it's not, it's a bug and needs to be
fixed.
--- David A. Wheeler
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___
Readable-di
Fyi, I've been implementing a library in common lisp using sweet expressions.
It is not quite ready for prime time, but you might find it amusing here:
https://github.com/david-a-wheeler/cl-metamath
--- David A.Wheeler
wisp developers have created another.
But you have to consider the general case. If you limit yourself to
symbols with fixed meanings, there are other languages that already do the job.
If you're going to use a Lisp, it should be because Lisp provides some
advantage to you.
--- David A. Wheeler
to the underlying representation.
You're certainly welcome to try some things out - I'm a little skeptical that
it's worth
the work, but the proof is always in the doing.
--- David A. Wheeler
--
__
I plan to release an updated readable library, based on the current
development version.
The changes are relatively small, and most of the changes are for Common Lisp.
If there are any issues, please post quickly.
Thanks!
--- David A. Wheeler
-toplevel :execute)
(readable:enable-sweet))
Once QuickLisp picks up the update, the problem should disappear.
--- David A. Wheeler
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mkdir /home/dwheeler/local-projects/help
... unzipped and put .lisp, .asd, etc. in that directory ...
sbcl
(push #p/home/dwheeler/local-projects/help/ asdf:*central-registry*)
(ql:quickload help)
--- David A. Wheeler
help.lisp.
On first blush, this looks like missing 'eval-when' clauses in the readable
package.
--- David A. Wheeler
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).
A . with a single n-expression is interpreted this way now. Currently, it's
illegal to have more than 1 n-expression on a line; this change would relax
that rule.
Anyway, thoughts welcome, pro or con.
--- David A. Wheeler
David A. Wheeler:
If wisp interpreted neoteric-expressions by default,
then many more expressions work in both systems...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:38:13 +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
wrote:
That’s true, but then lines with a single element would be treated
differently than
this; if something is a symbol, and the list
is not too long (e.g., 16 items or so), it's presented in f(...) format.
So while neoteric-expressions provide two ways to write something,
in practice, there's a more readable way that better expresses the purpose
in each case.
--- David A. Wheeler
that, that's all.
Thanks.
--- David A. Wheeler
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that in the wisp semantics, using a neoteric expression at
the *beginning* of a line
would be especially confusing. But not everything is at the beginning of a
line, and using them
afterwards would (I think) be sensible). E.G.:
sqrt cos(a) sin(a)
--- David A. Wheeler
the
semantics of {...} would increase its likelihood of acceptance in Clojure.
Also, the BDFL of Clojure objected to *any* infix support a few years ago.
Don't know if that's still true or not.
--- David A. Wheeler
implementations as-is, though it's been tested more on clisp and
sbcl.
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here:
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other applications do the same.
There's no doubt that it is easier to use ASCII than anything else.
On the other hand, we've been working to move to a Unicode world for years.
Perhaps the world is finally ready :-).
--- David A. Wheeler
(!).
In Clojure [...] and (...) have a different meaning, but it seems to me that we
should just leave [...] as-is. Parens are way more common for enclosing larger
scopes, as far as I can tell.
--- David A. Wheeler
thought though.
You can model many other things by creating a macro that passes the parameters
through it.
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FYI, I have posted a simple math expression simplifier written in Common Lisp.
It is written using sweet-expressions and itself reads and writes
sweet-expressions:
http://sourceforge.net/p/readable/code/ci/develop/tree/math.slisp
--- David
Not at all. The whole point is to have a syntax that is general, and not tied
to a particular semantic. Clearly it needs to be useful for a given semantic,
but not tied to it.
On October 26, 2014 10:43:17 PM EDT, John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org wrote:
David A. Wheeler scripsit:
In Clojure
notations
(Scheme already had this).
The QuickLisp version should automatically update when they do their package
updates.
Enjoy!
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., numbers and symbols) and conses,
though not other Common Lisp datatypes (yet).
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should gracefully
handle it.
The fix turns out to be trivial, and is included below for your amusement.
Basically, procedure it-expr-real didn't handle EOF-without-EOL gracefully.
I expect this patch will be in the next release.
--- David A. Wheeler
?
--- David A. Wheeler
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,
but the semantics of #' differ between Scheme and Common Lisp, so the
sweeten program has to know that you're using Common Lisp semantics.
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Are you using the -C option in sweeten? By default, sweeten assumes scheme
syntax. You need -C so that it knows that you are processing Common Lisp
On October 4, 2014 10:00:23 AM EDT, martijn brekelmans tijntj...@msn.com
wrote:
I'm new to lisp and I thought using readable would be a great
Fyi: we got a nice email, below, and I got permission to share it.
Original Message
From: Yves Cloutier yves.clout...@gmail.com
Sent: September 15, 2014 4:57:21 PM EDT
To: dwhee...@dwheeler.com
Subject: Readable Lisp
Hello David,
I just came across your Readable Lisp page and
. The
code is *written* with modern Scheme, but it tries to detect guile 1.6 and then
patch as necessary.
--- David A. Wheeler
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Turn processes
them into their local namespace without problems.
--- David A. Wheeler
=
Output routines for readable notations.
Use *print-notation* to decide what notation to use when writing.
Some of this code is derived from SBCL, which was in turn
/readable/wiki/Install-howto/
Website for all other information:
http://readable.sourceforge.net/
Enjoy!
--- David A. Wheeler
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Turn processes
if necessary).
If anyone else could test it, that'd be great! I've tested this on several
different systems.
Also, patches to remove the warnings generated by guile 2.0 (listed below)
while not interfering
with other Schemes would be great.
--- David A. Wheeler
=== guile 2.0 warnings
and switch to develop branch
autoreconf -i
Then configure, build, and test as usual:
./configure --prefix=/usr
make
make check
--- David A. Wheeler
--
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handy, but I do have guile 1.8. In 1.8, this works:
(case #\a (else (display hi)))
yet this fails:
(define else #t)
(case #\a (else (display hi)))
and I suspect the same would be true for guile 1.6.
Thanks for the idea though!!
--- David A. Wheeler
),
over 8 years ago. Perhaps more importantly, GNU Guile 2.0.0 was released on
2011-02-16.
That's enough time for most people to have updated beyond 1.6, and over time
I expect that even fewer and fewer people will care about guile version 1.6.
--- David A. Wheeler
working code.
--- David A. Wheeler
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Drat. What do you suggest?
On June 24, 2014 5:28:39 PM EDT, Alan Manuel Gloria almkg...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:41 AM, David A. Wheeler
dwhee...@dwheeler.com wrote:
Version 1.0.2 of the readable package is now available!!
It's a collection of small tweaks and improvements
avoiding incompatible language changes as critically important.
Below is the ChangeLog entry for this version, which describes the highlights.
If you want more detail, git log -p will tell all.
--- David A. Wheeler
ChangeLog for version 1.0.2:
* Various minor Scheme bug fixes, e.g
*think* I fixed it.
Was there something else?
--- David A. Wheeler
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simple is its own problem. All we *really* need is 1 and 0; anything
else is extraneous syntax :-).
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need to insert some additional logic to ensure that it doesn't do the
reordering that is normally done inside {...}.
--- David A. Wheeler
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how they look.
These could be considered synonyms, as extensions to the existing system.
--- David A. Wheeler
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#149; 3 signs your SCM
readers:
1. The Scheme one (tested mostly with guile)
2. Common Lisp
3. ANTLR/Java implementation (primarily for grammar analysis).
Anyone can always implement another. We want it to be as easy as possible
to implement it, while limiting the difficulties of doing so.
--- David A. Wheeler
, though.
--- David A. Wheeler
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it, and then use some preprocessor to
transform it into valid XML (or use a tweaked XML processor that interpreted it
specially).
--- David A Wheeler
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That is awesome! Thanks for letting us know!
Mike Gran spk...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi. I thought I'd take a stab at using your readable project
Result is attached. It is a process manager: a structure holds
a list of functions and data and call the functions as a unit.
Functions that return #f
).
This was never specified in SRFI-110 (or Scheme), so it's not a spec change...
it's just a way to more strict in a standards-compliant way.
--- David A. Wheeler
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part of a symbol. That's
all rather confusing and causes so much incompatibility.
Its this really intended or just an oversight?
What do you think x'x *should* mean? That's incredibly ugly!
--- David A. Wheeler
in multiple circumstances.
--- David A. Wheeler
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that R7RS, especially R7RS-large, will make it
possible to unify the islands. I think Scheme would be more
compelling if people could actually work together :-).
--- David A. Wheeler
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specifics on how
to handle errors (since Schemes vary in this matter), and it makes sense
that people will want to get errors.
Guile 1.8 doesn't support srfi-23 or R7RS, so that would need to be
implemented separately on guile.
--- David A. Wheeler
, we could put them in one file, so we wouldn't have to
generate too many files.
--- David A. Wheeler
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be fairly widely available (I hope!).
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option for the code, or should we
simply resort to the more standard behavior and error out via srfi-26
compatible code?
This could even be a run-time configuration option.
Does anyone have a preference?
--- David A. Wheeler
David A. Wheeler scripsit:
How about cond-expands at the beginning to handle much of the shimming,
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:08:47 -0500, John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org wrote:
As of the last time I looked, cond-expand wasn't supported by Racket,
Scheme48/scsh, Larceny, Ypsilon, S7, or Sizzle
diffs size down.
Smaller diffs sounds awesome to me!!
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to readable-no-values, to reduce the
risks of namespace issues. I'd hate to use something other :.
--- David A. Wheeler
P.S.:
Here's define-syntax info for R5RS, R6RS, and R7RS:
* R5RS states that define-syntax syntax definitions
are valid only at the top level of a program
(section 5.3, Syntax
. That assumes that
type systems like Chicken and Racket accept the results of macros.
But *can* we use macros to generate (: ...) type declarations?
Should we?
--- David A. Wheeler
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permits them.
Yeah, and I knew better too.
In any case, I think this should be fine:
(string-symbol +++CL-QUASIQUOTE-abbreviation+++)
--- David A. Wheeler
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Software
stuff is interrelated,
so I fear this approach may make it harder follow the guile portion.
But maybe not. The obvious approach is to try and see.
David A. Wheeler
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://sourceforge.net/p/readable/code/ci/develop/tree/src/kernel.scm?format=raw
Note that the develop branch is what changes in development,
while the master branch holds final distributed versions.
--- David A. Wheeler
to be
a temporary shim for certain cases, not something we end up using
everywhere, but I think you're right that it's plausible.
--- David A. Wheeler
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, most people don't futz with
these settings (except at program begin), so it's worked fine.
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no values or undefined
values type-annotated as returning undefined.
Thanks! I had to tweak them, but we now use (no-values).
Note: Yesterday I added annotations for some of the procedures
you didn't annotate.
--- David A. Wheeler
Am 18.11.2013 15:25, schrieb David A. Wheeler:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:23:32 +0100, Jörg F. Wittenberger
joerg.wittenber...@softeyes.net wrote:
In a first attempt to feed the source to some other Scheme I went ahead
and sent it to the rscheme compiler.
Doesn't work. It has
\na b c: d\n\n' | ./unsweeten
(a b #:c d)
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David A. Wheeler scripsit:
I like this idea. In a few places this patch changes return values
to intentionally return (values)... which is also okay by me.
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:33:16 -0500, John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org wrote:
For the record, I've never been a fan of returning zero
special objects so you can
record comments. I don't know if that would meet your needs,
and it'd clearly be a special case not normally used.
I'm not even sure how to generate all cases nicely.
Most people expect read to DROP comments :-).
--- David A. Wheeler
are easier to review for correctness. We have a rather extensive test
suite,
but I don't want to depend on that as our SOLE determiner of correctness.
--- David A. Wheeler
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I think version 1.0.0 is ready.
Please let me know ASAP if there are any more changes to readable that need
doing.
--- David A. Wheeler
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. But if we can point to some tips, that'd be great.
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earlier success months ago with another Linux
version was probably just due to me being smarter that day and successfully
figuring out to look for the expect package.
How's this?:
http://sourceforge.net/p/readable/wiki/Install-howto/
--- David A. Wheeler
before that release ID if I can.
--- David A. Wheeler
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that make distcheck works correctly, and
typical uses (with prefix as /usr/local or /usr) work without effort.
Suspicious situations are noted as such.
Thoughts?
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1.0.0?
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? Are there any important changes
that would hold back a version 1.0.0 release?
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2
Now that we have a final SRFI-110, I've updated the video tutorial to match.
Take a look here:
http://readable.sourceforge.net/
I'm trying to limit it to 15minutes, for later posting to YouTube.
--- David A. Wheeler
, and there are implementations for both.
My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated.
--- David A. Wheeler
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target), but I don't know exactly what
would do so.
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tarball.
I've already reported this as a bug:
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/5166/
SourceForge has generally pretty responsive in the past,
so I expect this will be fixed soon.
--- David A. Wheeler
here. I'm guessing that
for safety's sake, though, sweet-clisp becomes MIT and GPLv2 (+?).
Since that script's only purpose is to call clisp, which is already GPLv2,
that is no change to the license from user's point of view, though it'll
be tricky to explain.
--- David A. Wheeler
possible. The narrowing then
gets canceled on a cursor-movement command (is that possible in
emacs?) or escape key.
Great point! I agree.
--- David A. Wheeler
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, but it seems straightforward.
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Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks
think a t-expression would be a plausible default
as long as you could switch.
--- David A. Wheeler
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someone to implement one :-).
--- David A. Wheeler
=
Sweet-expression editor modes have to figure out where
lists begin and end; outside of (), this primarily involves
comparing indent levels. So that shouldn't be bad.
Also, the Scheme reference implementation must
.
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be a visual cue.
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Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with 2
by *itself* would continue to mean that the next
line (at the same indent level) is the cdr of the given list.
Any objections? I plan to check this into the development branch, so
we can experiment with it, but it'll be easy to pull out if there are
objections.
--- David A. Wheeler
if there are problems doing so.
Thanks.
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Isolate bottlenecks
of the n-expression reader, unfortunately, but it does create useful
functionality
(commenting datum blocks).
--- David A. Wheeler
@@ -1017,7 +1084,9 @@ collecting_tail returns [Object v]
// Process line after . hspace+ sequence. Does not go past
a dangling special tag to denote
comment return from hash-processing which no longer comments anything
at all, the special tag having been removed.
Whups! Feel free to remove the obsolete code!
--- David A. Wheeler
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that would *reuse* a symbol of the same name.
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, comments welcome.
--- David A. Wheeler
==
On 29 May 2013 02:31:25 -0400, Mark H Weaver posted a long set of comments.
One recommendation was to supporting datum comments of sweet-expressions
(#; + whitespace). The idea makes sense, and I did anticipate
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