Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400 From : Justin Mohareb justinmoha...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. Justin On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I know even called it channeling DeForrest Kelley. Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - From : B. Smith To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the end the movie. I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got a huge audience reaction. The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. One plot point I loved was that: S P O I E R S B E L O W Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt Spock for the destruction of Romulus. And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal wrote: Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the old school Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I might be interested in!) ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Martin, Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote: From: Tracey de Morsella Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM Martin: Why can’t you see it absorb it, enjoy it if possible and then come home and complain about the inconsistencies, Like Galactigus did From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bosco Bosco Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:01 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Dude
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Martin, when u going? i need 2 see it again, so i will tag along with u. Fate. --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:01 AM To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400 From : Justin Mohareb justinmohareb@ gmail.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. Justin On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I know even called it channeling DeForrest Kelley. Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - From : B. Smith To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the end the movie. I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got a huge audience reaction. The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. One plot point I loved was that: S P O I E R S B E L O W Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt Spock for the destruction of Romulus. And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, ravenadal wrote: Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the old school Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I might be interested in!) ~rave! --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Martin, Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote: From: Tracey de Morsella Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Martin, Please do yourself a favor and check it out. There are tons of nods to the various Trek movies and series. Abrams wasn't a Trekkie but the screenwriters were. There are so many Easter eggs in the movie you can miss them all the first time around. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Augustus Augustus jazzynupe_...@... wrote: Martin,  when u going? i need 2 see it again, so i will tag along with u.  Fate. --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:01 AM To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400 From : Justin Mohareb justinmohareb@ gmail.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. Justin On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I know even called it channeling DeForrest Kelley. Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? -[ Received Mail Content ]--  Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*  Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 -  From : B. Smith  To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the end the movie. I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got a huge audience reaction. The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. One plot point I loved was that: S P O I E R S B E L O W Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt Spock for the destruction of Romulus. And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, ravenadal  wrote: Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the old school Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I might be interested in!) ~rave! --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter  wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : Cââ¬â¢mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifino
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Ah. Too busy staring at Seven's Two Little Friends... -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 01:01:20 -0400 From : wlro...@aol.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Maybe they were too busy watching to see if Janeway and Seven was going to break it again. --Lavender -- From: sincere1906 Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:36 AM To: Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating poverty, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we would at someone stepped out of the 12th century. Can't see them however debating the philosophical merits of the prime directive. My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYahoo! Groups Links People may lie, but the evidence rarely does. http
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Marian, I've heard that the notion you posit has been discussed at the highest levels. No word on whether it happens in reality or not. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 23:22:46 - From : marian_changling md_moor...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com With all of the discussion of alternative timestreams here Are people thinking that future movies might try to mingle the two alternative Star Trek histories? I certainly hope not. (Mr. Shatner might yet talk himself into the new Trek!) If this is the new history, I hope they go forward with that. Not try to reach across into the old one. In fact, I wish that Spock Prime had stayed away from the new Spock altogether. That scene was completely unneeded. Some reviewers thought that it felt like Nimoy giving his blessing to the new guy, but storywise I wish it had been dropped. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: GW, You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. It was a good movie, I enjoyed much of it, but it didn't *feel* like Trek. And when some people hear my complaints they think I'm trying to be a purist or that I don't like the timeline/alternate reality change. And that's not it at all. I'm not one of those folks who was griping because there was a woman in charge on Voyager or because Picard didn't go around fighting everyone like Kirk did. I like those kinds of changes. I think the timeline/alternate reality thing is bold--even if I'll miss the old guys. No, my issues lay on whether this new Trek will still continue in the vision that (imho) gave the stories such a massive fanbase and following. Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, GWashin891@ wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 11:45:06 AM, adrianne.brennan@ writes: I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. At least in the Doctor Who reboots they made a great effort to at least keep with the spirit of the show and it's cannonal history. Even if they did change it. And inspite of those changes it, In short still 'felt' like Doctor Who. -GTW ** The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072amp;hmpgID=62amp; bcd=May51009AvgfooterNO62) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Forgive the implication, Exalted List Goddess -- ne'er shall this one stray. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:16:46 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com You ain’t allowed to leave, so forget that. Keep griping--- many of us empathize From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:22 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* sin speaks naught but truth to power. In a couple of other forums I post in, such a discussion, gone to the points we've taken it so far, would've resulted in several users leaving in disgust, after flinging death threats. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 21:03:28 - From : sincere1906 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com But this is scifinoir...where we can get into convulted arguments about everything from individuality and consciousness in the Borg to whether Balrogs have wings. That's what makes this little reality Tracey created for us so special--cuz we can't do so in most other places. And fear not, I'm not asking anyone to be divided by loyalties nor am I stewing in prejudice (?) and/or nostalgia. lol Just having a lively discussion... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Meta wrote: I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Nonononononono... I called first. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:01:11 - From : ravenadal ravena...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the old school Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I might be interested in!) ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : Câmon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Martin, Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote: From: Tracey de Morsella Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM Martin: Why canât you see it absorb it, enjoy it if possible and then come home and complain about the inconsistencies, Like Galactigus did From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bosco Bosco Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:01 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Dude This movie is GREAT. Miss it if you must but it's GREAT. Did I mention it's frakin GREAT. I really think you're cheating yourself by taking a stand against without having seen it. Seriously. God that movie was GREAT. Bosco --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter wrote: From: Martin Baxter Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:45 PM Adrianne, I've never thought of Doctor Who as a reboot, merely a restart. The nature of the show itself allows for far more flexibility in storytelling. The same can be said for Trek, but there are established events that formed the show's collective mythos. IMO, those events are being juggled, solely to make money. Yes, it's the Way of All Things. I don't have to accept it. I won't. I'll NEVER see this movie, not on cable, not on free TV, not even if someone were to send it to me, wrapped in C-notes. I'd send it right back. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:43:31 -0400 From : Adrianne Brennan To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adrianne brennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ books.html# the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 4:24:35 AM, sincere1906@ gmail.com writes: My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Meta, Just let me know who you want to bring it to your door, and I'll have Gabrielle hand it off. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 18:57:48 - From : Meta hett...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Martin, I'll take it if you don't want it, especially wrapped in those C-notes. You can, of course keep Gabrielle, my flow don't go THAT way.:) Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : Câmon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Martin, Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote: From: Tracey de Morsella Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM Martin: Why canât you see it absorb it, enjoy it if possible and then come home and complain about the inconsistencies, Like Galactigus did From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bosco Bosco Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:01 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Dude This movie is GREAT. Miss it if you must but it's GREAT. Did I mention it's frakin GREAT. I really think you're cheating yourself by taking a stand against without having seen it. Seriously. God that movie was GREAT. Bosco --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter wrote: From: Martin Baxter Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:45 PM Adrianne, I've never thought of Doctor Who as a reboot, merely a restart. The nature of the show itself allows for far more flexibility in storytelling. The same can be said for Trek, but there are established events that formed the show's collective mythos. IMO, those events are being juggled, solely to make money. Yes, it's the Way of All Things. I don't have to accept it. I won't. I'll NEVER see this movie, not on cable, not on free TV, not even if someone were to send it to me, wrapped in C-notes. I'd send it right back. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:43:31 -0400 From : Adrianne Brennan To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adrianne brennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ books.html# the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 4:24:35 AM, sincere1906@ gmail.com writes: My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus I was about to stay
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. Justin On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I know even called it channeling DeForrest Kelley. Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - From : B. Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the end the movie. I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got a huge audience reaction. The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. One plot point I loved was that: S P O I E R S B E L O W Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt Spock for the destruction of Romulus. And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal wrote: Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the old school Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I might be interested in!) ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella To : C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From : Augustus Augustus To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Martin, Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote: From: Tracey de Morsella Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM Martin: Why can’t you see it absorb it, enjoy it if possible and then come home and complain about the inconsistencies, Like Galactigus did From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bosco Bosco Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:01 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Dude This movie is GREAT. Miss it if you must but it's GREAT. Did I mention it's frakin GREAT. I really think you're cheating yourself by taking a stand against without having seen it. Seriously. God that movie was GREAT. Bosco --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter wrote: From: Martin Baxter Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To:
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating povert! y, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we would at someone stepped out of the 12th century. Can't see them however debating the philosophical merits of the prime directive. My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.comwrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating povert! y, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we would at someone stepped out of the 12th century. Can't see them however debating the philosophical merits of the prime directive. My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Sin, i see your points and to a point i agree. the new movie does change a couple of class trek eps. AMOK Time and Children of the Gods being the first to that come 2 mind. then it was the ep - which i am sorry i cannot remember the name, but the one when Sarek and Amanda beam onto the enterprise and kirk says to spock Mr. Spock, we will be in orbit a couple of hours. If you want to beam down and see your parents, that will be o.k. then spock looks at kirk and says Ambassordor Sarek and his wife, are my parents. that was kool as hell too! Fate. --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 7:55 AM That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1906@ gmail.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. F! or the first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry' s vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?! ? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating! poverty, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we would at someone stepped out
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating povert! y, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
IMAX seats, thank you! On May 10, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Justin Mohareb wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.comwrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles-- even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating povert! y, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I can adapt. Have nostalgia for those parts of our past , while embracing something ,new and DIFFERENT in the now. However, I empathize with those who cannot. Change is hard. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Mohareb Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:46 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@gmail.com wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminat ing povert! y, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
You guys know my heart skips a beat when you guys call me Exalted List Goddess, so it is particularly touching on mother's day. Thanks. I'm thrilled everyone is returning home today..and even more thrilled that we have some active new blood Thank you for the cool Mother's day wishes -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ravenadal Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:00 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Tracey! I was just thinking to myself: where IS our Exalted List Goddess during all this lively conversation? I hope this Mother's Day finds you in good health and proud of your list children (even the one's too old to still be at home - like me!). ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: Wow everybody is turning back in to comment on this one. Adrianne, Aubrey, Marian, Galacticus, Justin, etc Did I leave anyone out? It's good to hear from everyone Tracey From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 7:16 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb justinmoha...@... wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating povert! y,
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I was a near instance Picard fan, mainly because he was the total opposite of Kirk. If Kirk had been killed at anytime during TOS, I'd have leaped for joy.:) I really didn't like him until the movies appeared. Watching the movie today I found myself really liking this Kirk, much to my surprise.:) Quinto was outstanding,IMO. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: One more thing, Do any of you remember when people torn down TNG during its premier. How about Picard. He is now among some more beloved than Kirk, yet many were prepared to start a rebellion when the series premiered. I think some of the traditionalists will eventually adapt and learn to separate enjoy and gripe. Griping can be fun From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Mohareb Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:46 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
But this is scifinoir...where we can get into convulted arguments about everything from individuality and consciousness in the Borg to whether Balrogs have wings. That's what makes this little reality Tracey created for us so special--cuz we can't do so in most other places. And fear not, I'm not asking anyone to be divided by loyalties nor am I stewing in prejudice (?) and/or nostalgia. lol Just having a lively discussion... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Meta hett...@... wrote: I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb justinmohareb@ wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.brennan@ wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1906@ To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
LOL You're right Tracey. Griping can be fun! When I become an old man, I plan on being a master griper. I'm practicing now! :) One point of contention however, I don't know if this is about being a traditionalist or whether one can adapt--at least not for me. I liked the old Star Trek I watched in syndication as a kid. I was all open eyes for Next Gen, and followed it thru my teenage to early adult years. I signed up for Deep Space Nine and Voyager. I endured Enterprise. I saw every movie. Read some books. I adapted repeatedly. Did I gripe? Oh yeah. Usually I griped at what I thought were wack storylines or bad episodes. With Enterprise I just griped at what I considered bland storytelling, though they began to make up for that with aspects of the Xindi war. So change in the Trek Universe--I think I can adapt to that fine. I can even adapt I think to alternate timelines/realities (Mirror, Mirror/Yesterday's Enterprise/Parallels), which I usually find exciting. My issues with this good movie (because I'm saying off the bat, it's a good movie) are about the deeper principles that lie behind what Trek is, what tied all those previous incarnations (good and/or bad) together. From the product placements to Kirk's almost going through the motions in citing Federation compassion towards the enemy at the end, this just didn't feel like Trek, which I have accepted previously in all its adaptations. It looked like Trek, it had the characters, it had familiar names--but it felt like...something else. Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: One more thing, Do any of you remember when people torn down TNG during its premier. How about Picard. He is now among some more beloved than Kirk, yet many were prepared to start a rebellion when the series premiered. I think some of the traditionalists will eventually adapt and learn to separate enjoy and gripe. Griping can be fun From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Mohareb Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:46 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I can only say that I'll consider it, sin. I still feel as though paying to see something I know I won't like is a violation of my ethics. (I know, you ask how I can say with such certainty that I don't like something I've never laid eyes on. My answer is my own Little Voice. It's saved my life, and the lives of three other people. It also tried to save me from making a disastrous bet on the Iggles in SB XV. I trust it.) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 20:40:41 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ROTFL. Man just the image of Picard in that scene has me laughing. But recall that Picard's Ahab-like obstinance had to be tempered by Alfree Woodard... You broke your little ships. See the movie, please, if only so I can find a like-minded person who likes Trek's vision and principles to gripe and complain with... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: Your right to believe and enjoy. Mine not to. Thank you for caring enough to try to steer me your way, but I feel that I've got to make a stand here. To quote Picard in First Contact, This far and no further! -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From : Bosco Bosco To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Dude This movie is GREAT. Miss it if you must but it's GREAT. Did I mention it's frakin GREAT. I really think you're cheating yourself by taking a stand against without having seen it. Seriously. God that movie was GREAT. Bosco --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter wrote: From: Martin Baxter Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:45 PM Adrianne, I've never thought of Doctor Who as a reboot, merely a restart. The nature of the show itself allows for far more flexibility in storytelling. The same can be said for Trek, but there are established events that formed the show's collective mythos. IMO, those events are being juggled, solely to make money. Yes, it's the Way of All Things. I don't have to accept it. I won't. I'll NEVER see this movie, not on cable, not on free TV, not even if someone were to send it to me, wrapped in C-notes. I'd send it right back. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:43:31 -0400 From : Adrianne Brennan To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adrianne brennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ books.html# the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 4:24:35 AM, sincere1906@ gmail.com writes: My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus I was about to stay silent on this but the paragraph above prompted me to put my .02 cents in. What Sin/Black Galactus stated is something I call The Galactica Syndrome. That is you got a show based on a earlier project that while forming it's own audiance base is shunned by most-if not all of the orignials show's base. Shows like this usually don't have that much of a long shelf-life being period 'flashes in the pan. Pre-new movie Star Trek (OST, ST:NG, ST:DS9, ST:V) while set either/or different time periods, situtations, characters, etc. could have went this way. Their was something about those shows (and the movies based on them) that fans from other shows could like and this brought in many fans from those shows. Which in turn made the great. However the flipside of this is that it produces 'lazy' exicution, that eventually results in bad products which angers and drives of the fans of those shows. Forcing efforts to bring new life into those shows. Sometimes successful, sometimes not. It depends on how much cannon they 'break' when doing it to make the show new/hip to make it acceptable to
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
sin, I had a hit off the whisper-stream a few months back, that a crossover with the original Trek timeline was a possible go. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 20:32:20 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Daryle, Those are some great points! True indeed, how many times has the timeline been altered already with flagrant offenders like Kirk (old Kirk)? And, one more time, what about those Temporal Authorities that exist in the far future that attempt to assure the timeline remains generally intact? Somehow they have to exist outside of these temporal changes and must be aware. I'm wondering too how many changes Spock's presence will bring. Spock however came from a Federation that obeyed the Prime Directive...somewhat. How much does he interfere in this timeline with his knowledge of the possible future? Does Spock give away future scientific knowledge (like he did with trans-warp teleporting), or keep his mouth/brain shut. So if I get this straight, this timeline does not erase the old one we're used to right? That timeline--that I'm going to call the Trek Universe 1.0--still exists, no? This new timeline is just another reality now, like Worf's bouncing around in Parallels. Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle Lockhart wrote: And the canonical differences are the things we were always arguing about ANYWAY, which makes this reset brilliant. A lot of the things we accept as Trek law is stuff that happened under Berman and Braga. Let's not forget, if we follow the actual timeliine of events, time had been changed by the events of First Contact ANYWAY, so things were already different. I have an analysis coming on things that changed that we hadn't considered, and some of it's good, like the idea that Voyager probably won't happen in this timeline, and that no Klingons ever join the Federation. Having a leading science officer from the future with knowledge of their mining accident will DEFINITELY impact how the Klingons get down. But more importantly, it is quite possible that either the Founders or The Borg WIN this time. The small advantages the Federation had were due to the political climate in the galaxy. Change those things (make the Romulans into allies, for example), and everything changes. I believe that this new Trek universe is going to be FANTASTIC for novels. All bets are off! FOR THIS REASON, it's crucial that J J Abrams not direct the next Star Trek movie. He can produce all day, I'm not saying the man shouldn't get paid, but JJ has a habit of derailing something in the middle and having it never recover (or is there someone here who understands what's happening on Lost?) On May 10, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote: I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http:// www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 4:24:35 AM, sincere1...@... writes: My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus I was about to stay silent on this but the paragraph above prompted me to put my .02 cents in. What Sin/Black Galactus stated is something I call The Galactica Syndrome. That is you got a show based on a earlier project that while forming it's own audiance base is shunned by most-if not all of the orignials show's base. Shows like this usually don't have that much of a long shelf-life being period 'flashes in the pan. Pre-new movie Star Trek (OST, ST:NG, ST:DS9, ST:V) while set either/or different time periods, situtations, characters, etc. could have went this way. Their was something about those shows (and the movies based on them) that fans from other shows could like and this brought in many fans from those shows. Which in turn made the great. However the flipside of this is that it produces 'lazy' exicution, that eventually results in bad products which angers and drives of the fans of those shows. Forcing efforts to bring new life into those shows. Sometimes successful,
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Tracey, you should change your post-name to that. Truth in advertising, after all... ;-D -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:45:00 -0700 From : Tracey de Morsella tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com You guys know my heart skips a beat when you guys call me Exalted List Goddess, so it is particularly touching on mother's day. Thanks. I'm thrilled everyone is returning home today..and even more thrilled that we have some active new blood Thank you for the cool Mother's day wishes -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ravenadal Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:00 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Tracey! I was just thinking to myself: where IS our Exalted List Goddess during all this lively conversation? I hope this Mother's Day finds you in good health and proud of your list children (even the one's too old to still be at home - like me!). ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella wrote: Wow everybody is turning back in to comment on this one. Adrianne, Aubrey, Marian, Galacticus, Justin, etc Did I leave anyone out? It's good to hear from everyone Tracey From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrianne Brennan Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 7:16 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
That is why I want him to see it. Griping is part of the tradition and fun of the reboot remake experience and I want to see you snark through Star trek like you do so well Martin :) -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sincere1906 Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:41 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* ROTFL. Man just the image of Picard in that scene has me laughing. But recall that Picard's Ahab-like obstinance had to be tempered by Alfree Woodard... You broke your little ships. See the movie, please, if only so I can find a like-minded person who likes Trek's vision and principles to gripe and complain with... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: Your right to believe and enjoy. Mine not to. Thank you for caring enough to try to steer me your way, but I feel that I've got to make a stand here. To quote Picard in First Contact, This far and no further! -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From : Bosco Bosco ironpi...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Dude This movie is GREAT. Miss it if you must but it's GREAT. Did I mention it's frakin GREAT. I really think you're cheating yourself by taking a stand against without having seen it. Seriously. God that movie was GREAT. Bosco --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Martin Baxter wrote: From: Martin Baxter Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 12:45 PM Adrianne, I've never thought of Doctor Who as a reboot, merely a restart. The nature of the show itself allows for far more flexibility in storytelling. The same can be said for Trek, but there are established events that formed the show's collective mythos. IMO, those events are being juggled, solely to make money. Yes, it's the Way of All Things. I don't have to accept it. I won't. I'll NEVER see this movie, not on cable, not on free TV, not even if someone were to send it to me, wrapped in C-notes. I'd send it right back. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 11:43:31 -0400 From : Adrianne Brennan To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I dunno. I don't see what they're doing as being any different from the reboot of Doctor Who, except with more major canonical differences. ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adrianne brennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adrianne brennan.com/ books.html# the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: In a message dated 5/10/09 4:24:35 AM, sincere1906@ gmail.com writes: My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus I was about to stay silent on this but the paragraph above prompted me to put my .02 cents in. What Sin/Black Galactus stated is something I call The Galactica Syndrome. That is you got a show based on a earlier project that while forming it's own audiance base is shunned by most-if not all of the orignials show's base. Shows like this usually don't have that much of a long shelf-life being period 'flashes in the pan. Pre-new movie Star Trek (OST, ST:NG, ST:DS9, ST:V) while set either/or different time periods, situtations, characters, etc. could have went this way. Their was something about those shows (and the movies based on them) that fans from other shows could like and this brought in many fans from those shows. Which in turn made the great. However the flipside of this is that it produces 'lazy' exicution, that eventually results in bad products which angers and drives of the fans of those shows. Forcing efforts to bring new life into those shows. Sometimes successful, sometimes not. It depends on how much cannon they 'break' when doing it to make the show new/hip to make it acceptable to both new/old fans. This, IMO is why Enterprise was not well recieved by the pre-new movie Star Trek community. It broke too much cannon, and many of the stories weren't that good. Which is also why
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Me too. I think this type of discourse is part of the fun of the list. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sincere1906 Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2f009 2:03 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* But this is scifinoir...where we can get into convulted arguments about everything from individuality and consciousness in the Borg to whether Balrogs have wings. That's what makes this little reality Tracey created for us so special--cuz we can't do so in most other places. And fear not, I'm not asking anyone to be divided by loyalties nor am I stewing in prejudice (?) and/or nostalgia. lol Just having a lively discussion... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Meta hett...@... wrote: I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb justinmohareb@ wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.brennan@ wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1906@ To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I griped all through Voyager and Enterprise, but I still watch them both and on occasion gripe. I griped at first about Battlestar 2 and came to love it and now I'm ambivalent...sigh - you know if they will have me in reruns and Caprica. I have not seen this Trek. Next Friday--- can't wait. However, when I heard about all the changes, I decided to see it as different but similar. I'm sure I will gripe, but I doubt I will do so to the point of rejection.. simply longing.. I think we have to accept that the old trek universe is part of the past far as the new movies are concern and be happy for lots and lots of trek syndication. We Farscape fans should be so lucky -Original Message- I From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sincere1906 Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:16 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* LOL You're right Tracey. Griping can be fun! When I become an old man, I plan on being a master griper. I'm practicing now! :) One point of contention however, I don't know if this is about being a traditionalist or whether one can adapt--at least not for me. I liked the old Star Trek I watched in syndication as a kid. I was all open eyes for Next Gen, and followed it thru my teenage to early adult years. I signed up for Deep Space Nine and Voyager. I endured Enterprise. I saw every movie. Read some books. I adapted repeatedly. Did I gripe? Oh yeah. Usually I griped at what I thought were wack storylines or bad episodes. With Enterprise I just griped at what I considered bland storytelling, though they began to make up for that with aspects of the Xindi war. So change in the Trek Universe--I think I can adapt to that fine. I can even adapt I think to alternate timelines/realities (Mirror, Mirror/Yesterday's Enterprise/Parallels), which I usually find exciting. My issues with this good movie (because I'm saying off the bat, it's a good movie) are about the deeper principles that lie behind what Trek is, what tied all those previous incarnations (good and/or bad) together. From the product placements to Kirk's almost going through the motions in citing Federation compassion towards the enemy at the end, this just didn't feel like Trek, which I have accepted previously in all its adaptations. It looked like Trek, it had the characters, it had familiar names--but it felt like...something else. Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: One more thing, Do any of you remember when people torn down TNG during its premier. How about Picard. He is now among some more beloved than Kirk, yet many were prepared to start a rebellion when the series premiered. I think some of the traditionalists will eventually adapt and learn to separate enjoy and gripe. Griping can be fun From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Mohareb Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:46 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
With Meta in the house if we can get George and Leslie commenting as well as the new family members it will be a true star trek/scifinoir family reunion -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Meta Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:46 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb justinmoha...@... wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
I was too and my Mom wanted to marry him, but I remember there were many who initially thought the casting was way off base -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Meta Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:57 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* I was a near instance Picard fan, mainly because he was the total opposite of Kirk. If Kirk had been killed at anytime during TOS, I'd have leaped for joy.:) I really didn't like him until the movies appeared. Watching the movie today I found myself really liking this Kirk, much to my surprise.:) Quinto was outstanding,IMO. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella tdli...@... wrote: One more thing, Do any of you remember when people torn down TNG during its premier. How about Picard. He is now among some more beloved than Kirk, yet many were prepared to start a rebellion when the series premiered. I think some of the traditionalists will eventually adapt and learn to separate enjoy and gripe. Griping can be fun From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Mohareb Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:46 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan adrianne.bren...@... wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the ! first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
You ain’t allowed to leave, so forget that. Keep griping--- many of us empathize From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:22 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* sin speaks naught but truth to power. In a couple of other forums I post in, such a discussion, gone to the points we've taken it so far, would've resulted in several users leaving in disgust, after flinging death threats. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 21:03:28 - From : sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com But this is scifinoir...where we can get into convulted arguments about everything from individuality and consciousness in the Borg to whether Balrogs have wings. That's what makes this little reality Tracey created for us so special--cuz we can't do so in most other places. And fear not, I'm not asking anyone to be divided by loyalties nor am I stewing in prejudice (?) and/or nostalgia. lol Just having a lively discussion... :) Sin/Black Galactus --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Meta wrote: I have seen the movie and I loved it. My feelings about this non-issue is the same as yours. I just will not be drawn into a convoluted argument about Trek loyalties. Meta --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Justin Mohareb wrote: Yeah, but a lot of people have decided that, sight unseen, they're not going to like this film. I, personally, don't have the time or energy to debate or cajole or even, at this point, care. Let them stew in prejudice and nostalgia. That leaves more seats for the rest of us. Justin On 10-May-09, at 10:15 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote: And yet, me and many others who ARE Trek fans--heck, been a Trekkie all of my life--*loved* the movie! ~ Where love and magic meet ~ http://www.adriannebrennan.com Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: That, sir, is a DAMN good point. But then, I return to Abrams' own words. If you're a Star Trek fan, you won't like this movie. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 08:36:17 - From : sincere1906 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon-- right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Maybe they were too busy watching to see if Janeway and Seven was going to break it again. --Lavender -- From: sincere1906 sincere1...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:36 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* Okay. Getting real Trek geek here... SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILSRS! Where are the Temporal Authorities? In a Deep Space 9 episode, we got to see guys from the future who monitor time. I figure they must be able to remain unaltered outside the timeline. Shouldn't some alarm (or however they're notified) have gone off somewhere as soon as that giant Romulan ship showed up and started rippling through the time line? Jes thinkin aloud... Sin -- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, sincere1906 sincere1...@... wrote: Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on a Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... S P O I L E R S ! ! ! I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. There was well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. So as a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like this, is was it good Trek? On this, I'm truly torn. First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know about Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, the timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The Butterfly effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love affar between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was a bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an entire alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with Vulcans reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant. They should call this Ultimate Star Trek! There's a sense of loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know future figures like Picard might never have been born. For the first time I can recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek universe. That will take some getting used to. Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out where this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its faults, the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a Russian main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek taking any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in the midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as the 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product placement ads for Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for using a cross-sci-fi swear word, but what the frack!?! Earth endures eugenics wars, a nuclear holocaust, a post-atomic court of horrors, new regional powers (the Northern Alliance, etc), and somehow Nokia emerges unscathed!?!? The Trek world I knew seemed to always posit that humanity had come to the verge of destroying itself, and upon First Contact, from the ashes of the old world they built a new one--eliminating poverty, war, hunger, disease and systems that move far beyond capitalism and socialism. In this new Trek reality, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk had a credit card! Trek has often been faulted at being overly utopian in the past, which I agreed could obscure reality. But this Trek has characters so much like us, I don't understand how they can possibly be enlightened. Normally Trek folks look back on our era the way we would at someone stepped out of the 12th century. Can't see them however debating the philosophical merits of the prime directive. My great fear is that this spawns a whole Trek series that won't have some universal appeal because they adhere to any dynamic set of principles, but a Trek universe where things get blow'd up real good and the movie crowd can clap on cue. Too early to make that judgment before the next film, so we'll just have to wait and see... MHO Sin/Black Galactus Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYahoo! Groups Links People may lie, but the evidence rarely does.
