Hi Chris, I've had to ignore the list for the last week for personal
reasons, so apologies if this has been mentioned somewhere across the
myriad threads...
I keep hearing yourself, Maurice, Graham, and everyone else from Autodesk
who have stuck their heads above the parapet continuously mention
Excellent point, Dan!
Maybe start a new thread with this topic?
I am just a freelancer, but I have never worked on a Movie or a Game in
over 20 years.
Only Commercial, Corporate, and Broadcast (some Web videos as well)
A show of hands?
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Dan Yargici danyarg...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Chris, I've had to ignore the list for the
Julian
Great. Articulate
a
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk http://www.glassworks.co.uk/
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number
We do TV commercials almost exclusively. No games no movies. We have the
best tool in SI
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk http://www.glassworks.co.uk/
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
/And yet, that burden of responsibility doesn't seem to have been
reflected in the manner in which Softimage is currently being EOL'd. I
can't think of a more brutal scenario - immediate cessation of
development; no prior warning; no safe-harbour alternative option; no
pre-planning or
During our pre-briefing of the retirement announcement, Autodesk said in plain
English they don't want that.
Matt
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of skuby
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:05 AM
To:
So we wrongly called it a rumor. It was a pre-briefing...
Now it makes sense all this innovation with booleans and non destructive
bevel super tools of the future
--
---
Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation.
Chris, the possibilities when using ICE are so endless, that all nodes are
fair game. Hard to narrow it down to just a few, especially with a lot of
the heavy duty ICE users. Just have a look at the vast repository on rray.de
There are some very innovative ideas to be found there, it's also the
On 15/03/2014 17:44, Graham Bell wrote:
I¹ve absolutely no doubt, but in all the time I¹ve demoed Softimage, even
pre-AD, there was never anyone who didn¹t like the software, tech or
couldn¹t see the potential benefits. However despite this, it wasn¹t easy
for people to simply adopt.
We could
Selling SI is something that has already been discussed thousands of times
since the EOL announcement and it is clear that it will never going to happen.
I guess if someone offer 10x what Autodesk paid may have a chance to but that
will never happen so let's stop with that topic.
SI is never
I don't know if it's clear, but AD already reverted the decision of
timebombing licences tied to a suite, so you already get a perpetual
concurrent licence of Soft if you downgrade to Maya.
The problem, and something worth fighting for IMO, is expanding, since no
new seats will be available for
great site
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Adam Sale
[adamfs...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:49 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Idea- Just keep Mental Ray and
*Martin furik...@gmail.com furik...@gmail.com*
*With SI retired you can't buy licenses for SI anymore, it doesn't come
with Max or Maya, you can only use the licenses you have right now. You
should add keep selling SI licenses to your idea.MartinSent from my
iPhone*
Thing is, Softimage IS now
Now I get it. Forget it, I misread those lines from your email.
Martin
Sent from my iPhone
On 2014/03/15, at 16:56, skuby sku...@gmail.com wrote:
The above has a severe typo: Should read: With that, I don't think
Autodesk will want to encourage new users to Softimage, so not selling new
All that we are fully developing Maya so it will be great just you seeis
pure PR crap.
From couple sides is heard that bifrost which is one big argument on their
side is still too young to be usable. It is not even full grown fluid
simulation and to replace ICE it will take years.. even after, by
I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What you have to understand
is Autodesk doesn't want customers running concurrent sessions off a single
license as in a Maya/Max and a Softimage session running in parallel. that
would effectively allow double the users to work while paying
I agree completely, which is why I’m hoping that if we all band together and
ask for this small set of concessions, it will help us all make wiser and
easier transitions where-ever we may end up.
you can rent or own either Max or Maya or some larger Suite and with any of
these, you would
*Matt Lind speye...@hotmail.com speye...@hotmail.com via
http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1311182ctx=mail
listproc.autodesk.com
http://listproc.autodesk.com *
*3:46 PM (8 minutes ago)*
*to softimage*
*I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Sales revenue was 2.31 Billion in 2013, and gross income 2.07 Billion.
The funny thing is that while I read on the list the reason for
shutting SI down is that they believe they can focus more on innovation
this way.
But AD spent only 600 million of that money on RD, and 2.83 Billion on
AFAIK that's how the suites worked. You can use all apps in your PC with a
single license and as soon as you run any of the apps you'll be using the
license and won't be able to use any other app on any other PC.
I think that is quite reasonable. Make it subscription only, or time limited
Hey Chris
Thanks for extensive cover. That is first concrete post with specific
points that makes sense.
Still stays question of killing Softimage in it's prime (even if it
stagnating and Maya is on developers rise)
before covering at least thsoe basic workflow things.
All underlying tech is great
We invite anyone here and many of you have taken up our offer to
contribute and it is up to us to show that we are delivering over the next
two years during the transition period. If we don't at the end than you
will all have choices and plenty of time to evaluate your options.
what kind of
Hi guys,
Your math is a little off as the number is 600 m in RD and 1 billion in sales
and administrative. The administrative covers everything from all the people
that support the developers to the building and computers. Autodesk spends more
on RD than Adobe or Apple. Our CEO Carl Bass
but there is still a bright future ahead all OK but this particular
sentence invokes some really bad memories and taste for Softimage people...
The future is brightclick
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
wrote:
Hi guys,
Your math is a little
First you beat us up and now you try to convince us that is was for our
own good and that you are actually really nice people... ?
Cancer research. really? You are pulling this card here and now? I'm
speechless.
Chris
On 15/03/14 14:37, Chris Vienneau wrote:
Hi guys,
Your math is a
Sorry, don' t want to be rude here, but what i am seeing in this thread and
others, is Softimage users helping develop Maya for the Company that ruin
Softimage. They kill the software and then come to us to ask what parts of
your ripped software would you like to have on the software we want to
The topic was innovation and research. So no I was not trying to pull a cancer
card but yes I was very proud to have helped out on that project. We are not
trying to down play the fact that this decision sucks for many people on this
list.
cv/
From:
Hahahaha.. this is all I can say to you!Good luck with the
inovation!Autodesk, it sounds that the future is bright for you as well.
On 15 Mar 2014 13:37, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Hi guys,
Your math is a little off as the number is 600 m in RD and 1 billion in
As I said in another post. Autodesk cut us our legs and now they are
offering us a wheelchair. And they are trying to convince us that the
weelchair is better than our legs by asking us how we want the wheelchair
customized... pfff.
Dont mean to be rude but... You can go back where you came
Well innovating Maya is not such a difficult task...
Emilio there are people on this list and within the community that are working
with us right now and taking us up on our offer to hear more about what we are
doing? What do you have to lose to hear our plan?
cv/
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
Chris first bring back Softimage and then show us what you have to offer in
Maya that will allow us to evaluate if what you are doing is good enough to
replace Softimage.
But at this moment. Maya is still a long way behind Softimage. I am not
speaking of the ending result. I am talking about
By the way just being curious...
During the time you made the decision of killing Softimage. Did you
evaluate that maybe the one that you should have killed instead was Maya to
dedicate your innovative effort to Softimage?
Or that never happened?
Improving Maya to make it better than any DCC available is a good thing, and I
sincerely hope you success.
The problem is that you killed Softimage just too soon. Now as how it is, Maya
isn't better than SI and I seriously doubt that it will be in 2 years, or 3 or
4. Even without having ICE in
Problem is it is not just it sucks ok get over it and move on, it is a life
changer for a lot of seasoned Softimage veterans out there that are
effectively reduced back to Maya junior, 2 and more decades of experience
stripped away.
That is something that no invention can replace.
Using software
Agree with you Mirko.
2014-03-15 12:38 GMT-03:00 Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com:
Problem is it is not just it sucks ok get over it and move on, it is a
life changer for a lot of seasoned Softimage veterans out there that are
effectively reduced back to Maya junior, 2 and more
We agree. That is why you need to see the plan on how we change how you get the
end result. Otherwise this is probably a really lame thread to follow for the
group as we talk over each other and it much less entertaining than the Chris
is a lying piece of crap diatribe. Let's get on the same
Chris,
I admire you for having the courage to come on this list and tell us your side.
But let's be clear, you don't get to be frustrated, angry, or abusive. You need
to win us over, you have let us down, pure and simple. You have to convince us
that there is a good reason to use your product,
Chris, nobody here on this list is saying you are that, its not you, is
Autodesk, the company we complain. And again, suppose someone comes and
guts your workflow in pieces and then says look we want the best for you,
so why don´t you tell me what you need, well we need that exactly way of
working
Agreed. I am running the transition training program and we need more ideas on
how to help seasoned Soft users get trained up on Maya whether that be online
or live training. Any thoughts are welcome.
cv/
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
I will add to Francisco.
All I have seen is that you are adding tools for Maya. Not really improving
the workflow. Starting with the UI.
Gosh, I hope you're sincere.
Please let us know where we can find such transition vids.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:02 PM, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
wrote:
Agreed. I am running the transition training program and we need more ideas
on how to help seasoned
Chris,
I am all ears, we are very interested in talking (as you know you were
supposed to call or visit me a while back ; )
Emilio, please don't be rude... while I think Chris's company and perhaps
his are views and perception are misinformed and or misguided, they are
not evil people. Name
Hi Chris,
What AD doesn't seem/want to understand is that it took away the tool we
make money with, to provide for ourself and our families.
And 'suck it up and change to Maya/Max' is basically the answer we got.
The question here is, can we retrain ourself? It will differ from person
to
Chris again. Thank you for helping in the transition and you are trying to
do your job. But you are still not listening to us. You just want to drag
us. I have been working in Maya for three years from now for some
particular projects that I needed to deliver in Maya.
Maya again is no option for
On 15/03/14 17:24, Greg Punchatz wrote:
I want to use the best out of the box 3d DCC app in the world, if one
day that is Maya, I am all aboard. Right now it is not, its kinda
just a fact.
I'm so with you on this..
We did take Autodesks offer a while back and upgraded two of our groups
Hello Chris, I think you got spot-on what (or types of things) everyone
wanted to know,
and goes a long way at inspiring confidence in what lies ahead,
and everything genuinely sounds quite amazing to say the least!
And to top it all, pretty-much adresses the main points that were
commonly to
Interestingly, you could flip that around and apply that to a Maya/Max
guy/studio talking about Softimage. In fact more often than not, they did.
From: Christoph Muetze c...@glarestudios.demailto:c...@glarestudios.de
Reply-To:
Chris:
I'm looking forward for this transition training videos. I cannot find any
high quality level training (except few ones from Gnomon) that could speed
up transition of senior XSI user to senior Maya user.
Please be sure to show us in that upcoming trainings how to do stuff in
Maya we are
Not preaching a religion here... In the 15+ years i've been using
Softimage products i've converted more hardcore Max and Maya users by
just outrunning them time and time again than i can count. Admittedly
realtime graphics is a very special field of profession and also very
rare outside of
I¹ve absolutely no doubt, but in all the time I¹ve demoed Softimage, even
pre-AD, there was never anyone who didn¹t like the software, tech or
couldn¹t see the potential benefits. However despite this, it wasn¹t easy
for people to simply adopt.
We could easily lead the horse to water, but never
I feel your pain, i really do..
I never had problems with Softimage in this regard, but we faced similar
roadblocks 10 years ago when we spoke with huge Studios trying to sell
them our realtime procedural content creation solution... Everyone was
amazed and loved the outcome. Unfortunately
Thats the pipeline talking. Which demonstrates how disrupting it is to
introduce something new.
Now imagine if, not only do you have to introduce something new, but your whole
foundation has to fundamentally change.
This is what's being forced upon us. (I know you know this, and this isn't
To be honest, we knew this was going to happen since the day Autodesk
bought softimage. Today, six years after
the acquisition is when we should be seeing a rejuvenated softimage, but
there was never long term plan for soft.
I understand the numbers between soft/Maya/max were not even
close. We
There is somewhat of a bright side folks, let's be realistic. Just about
every single hard core XSI user I'd known who fully committed to switching
over to Maya without looking back has gone on to do bigger and better
things in the industry. They work at places like Weta, ILM, Dreamworks,
Disney,
That guy that won the Oscar probably didn't have to do the work... :P
You know better than that Brad!!
-Lu
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote:
There is somewhat of a bright side folks, let's be realistic. Just about
every single hard core XSI user I'd
Chris,
I think most here are actually desperate to hear about your plan — not
objectives or goals, but the specifics and timing of a plan to move this thing
forward.
You probably understand that the overwhelming feeling here is that we re being
forced to take a giant step backward in many
Hi Brad,
I guess you mean a lot of our xsi friends decided to go into film industry
and therefore had to switch to Maya.
I am glad for them, they avoided the mess we are in but as I am sure you
know most of us work on commercials.
This comes to mind :)
it's an opportunity?
I think it's kind of insulting to say that. It's not the software that
makes people able to do that kind of work. It's their skills. It's just a
fact that most film studios have had Maya as their backbone for so long
that film is typically done with Maya. Then again, we do work at Hybride on
films
insulting to say that the
film industry is mainly Maya?
All my friends that transfered to Maya did it because they wanted to work
in films that's a fact at least here in London. MPC, DNEG, Framestore,
Cinesite etc are all Maya. Nothing wrong with that by the way, but that's
just the way it is..
i worked next to him for 8 months recently, between gravity and him
winning that oscar, using softimage in fact... he is talented and
doesnt care which tool he is using.
but i get your point Lu...
*written with my thumbs
On Mar 15, 2014, at 2:50 PM, Meng-Yang Lu ntmon...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, seeing the responses from AD officials in this post, it looks like we
won't be getting even FBX/Mental Ray updates to extend Softimage's
retirement past 2016, it was only a defeatist's last wish anyways, but I
had to try. I know Max, Maya and Softimage, I've spent some many dedicated
years
Softimage is ready out of the box now with no new features added. Why not,
leave it as is, but continue to support new Mental Ray and FBX updates so
that it still continues to fit nicely into any pipeline and leave continued
development past 2016 at those simple two things. Leave the rest up to
Short version:
1) Softimage supports more than just film/video. There are people working in
many industries which won't be served by mental ray and FBX updates. My studio
is a prime example (games).
2) The SDK is not open enough for plugin developers to do what you suggest.
Many of the 3rd
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