Re[2]: I have 3.99.29 4.0.14 in Add or Remove Programs!
Hello, Ian. Saturday, February 16, 2008, 12:02:31 AM, you wrote: G'day Henk, - On Saturday, February 16, 2008, 5:56:00 PM, you (Henk M. de Bruijn) wrote: HMdB Can not confirm this, I only have 4.014.2 in that list. That's odd because I do not have a MSI version of 4.0.14.2. The latest MSI version I have is 4.0.14 and I would assume that only an MSI version can update Add or Remove Programs. I agree. I just copied 4.0.14.2 (an exe file) over the top of 3.99.29. I still have 3.99.29 (only) listed in Programs and Features (the Vista equivalent of Add/Remove Programs). -- Best regards, Keith Current beta is 4.0.14.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 3.x key for 4.0
Thomas Fernandez wrote: Correct, you can use 4.0 with your 3.x key. You only need a new key for 4.1 and further - this might be confusing, but has been announced several times. Thanks, Thomas. Because I have been using The Bat! very little since I switched to IMAP, I don't read the lists as much as I used to. Guess I missed those announcements. -- Keith Current beta is 4.0.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.0.12 - How do I get my CSAPI back?
Ian A. White wrote: No, it is because in the Spell Checker|Options dialog I only see SSCE and Hunspell. I have the same problem. I don't know whether this is a new issue, because I just discovered the Spell Checker Options. In any case, CSAPI is not available in the options. I have both Office 2003 and Office 2007 installed (as well as older versions of Access and Publisher). Is it possible that TB is confused because of the multiple versions? -- Keith Current beta is 4.0.12.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Download URL manager
Hello Jens, Thursday, January 17, 2008, 2:31:29 PM, you wrote: Guten Tag Rick Grunwald, am Dienstag, 15. Januar 2008 um 17:29 schrieben Sie: My Download URL manager is getting loads of URLs that are unresolved. There is no way to delete them I have additionally the Problem, that there are shown all URLs and i dont's see which URLs belong to the Message shown right now - this is confusing! I just experienced this feature for the first time, and have the same problem. The URLs don't have meaningful names, and I have no idea what they belong to. I thought maybe Help would tell me how to deal with them, but clicking on Help gives me a message saying that help is not available. -- Best regards, Keith Current beta is 4.0.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.0.0.22: A great job again!
Vilius Šumskas wrote: Hello all, I think that RIT guys did it again. I mean, a great job! Yeah, you did *it* again RitLabs. Can we have an IMAP fixes now? AMEN! Current beta is 4.0.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.0.0.22: A great job again!
Maxim Masiutin wrote: 4.1 will be a paid update for the users of v3, nothing extraordinary. Just to clarify Does this mean that the 4.0 series is *not* a paid upgrade? I'm not ready to pay for an upgrade until TB is fully IMAP compliant and handles IMAP as well as Thunderbird. At the same time, I'm quite eager to install the latest version to which I'm legally entitled, as it sounds like the team has done a great gob this time. -- Keith Current beta is 4.0.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Thanks, Henk. That explains why I couldn't find the messages on the list. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-( Can you post what appeared in these two messages? I don't seem to be able to find either -- Keith Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ZoneAlarm Internet Security (Was: Re: TBB and TBI (Found it, I think!!!!))
Hi, Bob. You wrote: Try this link: http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/information/zass/releaseHistory.html That link is for ZoneAlarm Internet Security, which I have. Here is the link for ZoneAlarm Pro: http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/information/zap/releaseHistory.html Thanks. Where I actually found the link was at: http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/support/zasc/cfu.jsp?dc=12bmsctry=USlang=enlid=db_updates or http://tinyurl.com/228edy And here's another one: http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/company/products/trial_zaFamily/trial_zaFamily.jsp?dc=12bmsctry=USlang=enlid=db_trial or http://tinyurl.com/zko8w So there appear to be a variety of links that work if you know where to look. ;-) Please let me know if those help, or if you have neither ZoneAlarm Internet Security nor ZoneAlarm Pro. I have Internet Security, and I'm pleased with the update to Kaspersky. BTW, I don't know if my update feature helped with this (I forget), but I poked around and found the above. I still find it strange that the update feature in the software didn't find the update, but that's merely academic at this point. Thanks again! -- Keith Current beta is 3.96.04 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
ZoneAlarm Internet Security (Was: Re: TBB and TBI (Found it, I think!!!!))
Bob Riley wrote: And MAU was correct! On a hunch, I removed BitDefender AV Plus 10 and reverted to ZoneAlarm Internet Security 2006 (version 6.5, with CA's AV component and then, within a day, the free upgrade to version 7, with Kaspersky AV). Bob, how do I do that? I wasn't aware of version 7. I have 6.5 with a current update subscription, but when I check for updates, it tells me it's current. :-( Glad you got your problem resolved! -- Keith Current beta is 3.96.04 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: ZoneAlarm Internet Security (Was: Re: TBB and TBI (Found it, I think!!!!))
Never mind. I'd missed the link at the end of the update instructions -- Keith Current beta is 3.96.04 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Character encoding bug...
Vili wrote: Hello tbbeta, I got an email from S. Korea. Vili, I just saw your message. Unfortunately, The Bat! still does not handle Korean encodings, including EUC. I posted to TBUDL on the same topic just the other day. See the thread with subject Is Anyone Able to Send Korean Email? -- Keith Current beta is 3.81.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Development of Voyager?
Zygmunt Wereszczynski wrote: On Sunday, April 2, 2006, at 10:00:11 [UTC+0200] (Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:00 my local time) Martin Schoch wrote: What's about the development of Voyager? Or did I miss something? See my signature - this version is on RITLabs site. Okay...Can someone help me out? At one time, I had Voyager working, but I haven't used it for months. This thread prompted me to install the latest version to try it out, and now, of course, it's prompting me for the Master Password. Can someone remind me of what I enter here, and how I can apply my Professional license to Voyager? Thanks. -- Keith Current beta is 3.72.05 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Development of Voyager?
Roelof Otten wrote: The master password is what you've used as encryption key during the install of Voyager. Thanks, Roelof (he says, sheepishly). I had my usual blinders on, I guess. As I recall, when Voyager was first installed, there was a prompt that came up that required the entry of 7 or something like that, and that was what I was expecting to enter here. Once I entered my normal password, I was able to enter my TB! pro key and get things working just fine. I understand what you meant, even if Vitalie didn't. ;-) Thanks for the clarification and education, though, Vitalie. This version seems, so far, to be working very well on my new U3 flash drive on an IMAP account. -- Keith Current beta is 3.72.05 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.70.02 Qigong is now available
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. On Monday, January 23, 2006 at 18:40:34GMT -0500 (which was 4:40 PM where I live) Curtis wrote and made these points on the subject of The Bat! 3.70.02 Qigong is now available: If I leave messages in my Inbox, exit TB! and then use another client to delete them, TB! will still display the deleted messages on reopening the Inbox via TB!. The already deleted messages just sit there, even if I exit and re-open the Inbox. I do a compress and nothing happens. I finally do a purge and compress and nothing happens until I exit and re-open the Inbox. Confirmed in 3.65.03. (I haven't had a chance to upgrade yet.) I had A LOT of messages in my inbox, which I wanted to clear out. So I dragged them into another folder--using Thunderbird, because I've had problems performing such large-scale operations with The Bat! in the past. I was surprised to open TB! and find them still there--and determined to stick around, no matter what I did. The Bat! seems to have real problems deleting IMAP messages. I haven't seen this reported here, but may have missed it. If I try to delete a message in TB!, sometimes it disappears from the folder immediately, but more frequently, absolutely nothing happens. I still have numerous messages that I read using The Bat! and was unable to delete, and haven't gotten around to doing so in Thunderbird (which is what I usually have to do). -- Keith ...Unburdened by the rigors of coherent thought. Using The Bat! 3.65.03 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.70.02 quot;Qigongquot; | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
3.63.15
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. Having read the postive posts with respect to 3.63.14's IMAP performance, I went to the beta site to download it. I discovered that 3.63.15 had been added to the page. I decided to live dangerously and downloaded and installed the untested beta. So far, things are looking very encouraging. :-) It appears that I haven't received any list messages for several hours, so it may be that the announcement is already in the queue and will appear here before this message does. In any case, you will know that it has installed successfully for at least one user! -- Keith ...Honk if you love peace and quiet. Using The Bat! 3.63.15 (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.63.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP hanging 3.61.05
I wrote: I also can confirm this problem. While TB! has always been slower updating than my other clients, it became much worse just a few betas ago. Unfortunately, following the advice to downgrade to 3.60.1 didn't help me. I should say, too, that like Curtis, I am using FastMail. I'm having the problem and he isn't I went to bed at 10:30 last night and left The Bat! running. When I checked my mail at 7:35 this morning, The Bat! showed 10 new messages in my inbox, with the latest showing a time of 2:19 AM. I started up Thunderbird, and in addition to these messages, I had 7 more, with Received times up to 7:21. I exited TB! and ran it again; now the messages are all there. This is typical behavior. -- Keith Current beta is 3.61.07 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP hanging 3.61.05
Stuart Cuddy wrote: GS On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:20:16 -0500 GMT(9/24/2005, 7:20 AM -0500 GMT), GS per mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stuart Cuddy wrote: I think I will try to download 3.60.1 if it is still available, if not does anyone have it still? GS It is still at http://www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/. At least the last GS time I looked. Yes I am using it now. I already miss the color system and the new tabs. Amazing how quickly you become used to some things. So far no problems with IMAP, I also can confirm this problem. While TB! has always been slower updating than my other clients, it became much worse just a few betas ago. Unfortunately, following the advice to downgrade to 3.60.1 didn't help me. It appears as though one of the later betas may have made some kind of a configuration change that resulted in this behavior. Notice that I'm posting using Thunderbird. I have to be able to count on my mailbox being updated for me to keep up with my messages. It's really too bad, because for a while there, The Bat! IMAP was working well enough that I was pretty much back to using it full time. Are any of the developers following this thread? -- Keith Current beta is 3.61.07 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.60 MSIs
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. On Wednesday, August 31, 2005 at 14:11:17GMT +0300 (which was 5:11 AM where I live) Maxim Masiutin wrote and made these points on the subject of 3.60 MSIs: Could you please try 3.60 MSIs: I just got around to testing this. It worked fine for me, too, with the exception that I again had the problem reported in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Of course, by the time I got to that point, the old version of TB! was toast, and because I couldn't remember how we resolved the problem last time, I had to start up Thunderbird (a rare occurrence nowadays!) and do a search. Thanks again to Stuart for the Cancel suggestion, which again did the job. -- Keith ...Wear natural fibres. Hug your cat. Using The Bat! 3.60.07 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.07 forerunner | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Fast typing in quick search field with Enter causes The Bat! to show no letters at all.
Hello, Alexey. On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 5:14:18 PM, you wrote: All letters will dissapear. But even if you then clean up the search field and move from folder to folder, no letters will reappeared (see animated .gif attached). Confirmed -- Keith Russell ...Mediocrity requires aloofness to preserve it's dignity Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.03 forerunner | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. I have my fingers crossed. :-) A couple of weeks ago, I decided to try a supposedly stable TB! release. After a couple of hours of fighting it, I intended to post the details of my latest disappointing episode, but never got around to it. Then, a couple of days ago, I started reading raves about IMAP performance under 3.60.02. I installed it on Saturday and have been using it more and more since then. I've been amazed to see that the posters were absolutely right! I haven't seen a post from any of the programmers saying what they did with IMAP in this beta, but whatever they did, it worked. It's still not quite where I'd like to see it, but it's USABLE. Thunderbird finally has some major competition on my PC. Thanks, RIT! (I never did install 3.60.01, so I'm unable to make a comparison between .01 and .02.) I just hope I'm not speaking too soon -- Keith ...He who shouts the loudest has the floor. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. Well, I have my fingers crossed. :-) A couple of weeks ago, I decided to try again, and after several hours of fighting with TB!, I was about to post a long message about the latest IMAP episode. I never got around to it. Then, couple of days ago, I started reading raves about IMAP performance in 3.60.02, so I decided to try AGAIN and installed the new beta on Saturday. (Still hadn't ever been able to give this addiction up!) I've been using it more and more over the past couple of days, and have been amazed to see that the posters were right! I still haven't seen a post from any of the programmers saying what they did with IMAP in this beta, but the difference is impressive. It's still not where I'd like to see it, but it is USABLE. (I didn't ever install 3.60.01, so I have no comparison to post.) I just hope I'm not speaking too soon... -- Keith Russell ...Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Keyboard Shortcuts
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. Can anyone tell me what happened to Edit Shortcuts? I've had so many problems over the past few months that I've never gotten to the shortcuts, and now I cant find them anywhere in the menus. -- Keith Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wahoo! I'm back....
Sorry about the duplicate post. It appears there are still some glitches to be ironed out I wrote the message, then minimized it (or so I thought), and after working in the main window for a minute, looked for my edit window, and it was gone. I couldn't find it anywhere: not in Outbox, not in Sent Mail. :-( So I typed the message in again and hit Send. Several minutes later, as far as I could tell, neither message existed. Eventually, of course, both showed up here, as well as in the Sent Mail folder. So that's why you see two messages with the same subject. :-) -- Keith ...I'm not confused. I'm just well mixed. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Is the Beta Site down?
Hello, Stuart. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 1:57:37 AM, you wrote: I can't get to it? It was up earlier, but does seem to be inaccessible now -- Keith ...Oxymoron: Still Life. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, Curtis. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 4:42:52 AM, you wrote: IMAP is behaving about the same for me as for the last several releases. But I'm happy to see that things have improved dramatically for those who still found it unusable. :) Thanks. It really is interesting to see how differently it performs for different users, and how dramatically different are the consequences of any changes. -- Keith Russell ...Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake! Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Keyboard Shortcuts
Thanks a lot for clearing this up, Marck. They have been usurped by the new king ... Customise All menus and toolbars can now be customised and shortcuts are assigned that way. Sadly, old redefinitions have been completely discarded in the changed method. That isn't a big problem for me, because I hadn't redefined much in the past, anyway. Once you'd reminded me, I did remember the discussions of Customize in the distance past--all of which I'd ignored because I wasn't ready at the time. Before I posted my earlier message, I had searched Help, which pointed me to View | Edit Shortcuts, which of course isn't there. Menu Navigator didn't turn up anything for Shortcuts, either. After receiving your message, I searched Menu Navigator for Customise, and still didn't find it. Searching through the menus manually, I did finally find it (not where I expected). Now, after spending most of the morning reading through all the old threads relating to Customise (many of which, of course, are no longer relevant), I'm almost starting to understand how to view and change keyboard shortcuts, although sometimes it works for me and other times it doesn't. Now, I do have a couple more questions: 1. How does one find existing keyboard assignments? I can think of three ways: wading through the Customize dialog, digging into tbuser.def, and just entering a keyboard combination in various contexts to see what happens. None of these seems like a very satisfactory way to accomplish this. 2. Where do I find the shortcuts for expanding and collapsing threads? I don't see them anywhere! -- Keith Russell . Bugs come in through open Windows. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, Curtis. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 4:45:52 AM, you wrote: It likely was never sent and hence the absence of the duplicate. But it was there later So I typed the message in again and hit Send. Several minutes later, as far as I could tell, neither message existed. Eventually, of course, both showed up here, as well as in the Sent Mail folder. So that's why you see two messages with the same subject. :-) You mean this message that I'm replying to and the last one about IMAP being much better for you? No, I mean two messages with the subject Wahoo! I'm back, which I typed and sent separately, and both of which eventually showed up in both Sent Mail and in my TBBETA folder. I'm glad you only got one, anyway. :-) -- Keith ...This space intentionally left Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Keyboard Shortcuts
Hello, Marck. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 12:31:52 PM, you wrote: KR 2. Where do I find the shortcuts for expanding and collapsing KR threads? I don't see them anywhere! These are as they ever were - Ctrl-Num+, Ctrl-Num-, Ctrl-Num* And what if I wanted to change them? -- Keith Russell ...When a New Yorker looks as if he's suntanned, it's probably rust. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, Clive. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 12:28:26 AM, you wrote: I was on the verge of uninstalling TB! from my machines and concentrating on Mulberry, which I find suits my needs very well. I might just delay that for a little while though. So how's TB! working for you now, with 3.60.02? I'm having fun! -- Keith ...He's dead, Jim. Kick him if you don't believe me. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wahoo! I'm back....
Hello, Stuart. On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 12:17:44 PM, you wrote: I am not sure what has happened here, but my IMAP is actually slower than it was. I keep getting the no message loaded message and it sits and waits until I get it to do something else and then select the message again. Yes, I'd seen the earlier posts, which is why I mentioned that I hadn't installed 3.60.01 and thus was unable to compare. In any case, I was glad to see from your later message that you were able to resolve the problem, and that it apparently wasn't caused by the upgrade? How about others who saw a reduction in performance with 3.60.02? Is this still a problem for some? -- Keith Russell ...Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings. Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.60.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
CANNOT Repair My IMAP Database (Was: Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?)
Hi, everyone. On Tuesday, June 28, 2005, 11:29:37 PM, I wrote: I'm still on version 3.0.9.13. One reason that I have never upgraded this version and completely stopped using The Bat! some time ago is that it is unusable due to a constantly recurring error message. No matter which account I'm working in, one IMAP account continues to generate the following error: An error occurred while reading the message base ...\Fastmail (IMAP)\55DBCDFF.TBB. Do you want to repair the message base now? I have tried clicking Yes and repairing the file, but it doesn't help. Every few seconds, this message pops up, making it impossible to work. Can someone tell me the best way to deal with this? Since this is IMAP, can I just delete the TBB file and let TB rebuild it? At the time, I received several helpful replies. At one point, I thought I had the problem solved, but was never brave enough to upgrade until installing 3.51.10 today. As soon as I started up the new version, I started getting the error popups (this time for 0588F103.TBB). As before, I was asked whether I wanted to repair the message base, but whether I pressed Yes or No, the error message would immediately pop up again. I was able to eventually get to the repair dialog, but of course, there was no way to tell which real folder 0588F103.TBB belonged to. I selected the account name and ran the repair for all folders in the account. Just as on previous betas, it found problems with over 20 folders and claimed to have recovered several thousand messages. However, for Inbox, it said Folder is not repaired: Could not write rebuilt data. For all other folders, it said Messages recovered: x, damaged parts (part???.bin) saved:0. (Anybody know what this means?) All the time the repair was running, and after it completed, I had two popup errors present--no matter how many times I tried to dismiss them, they kept coming back. I ran the repair two more times (a lengthy process), with over 20 folders repaired each time, and the popups continued. No way could I get to a menu to disconnect from the server, nor could I repair the database. The next challenge was to close the program. After literally hundreds of clicks in the error dialogs, on the close buttons, and on confirmation dialogs, I finally got it to close. Eventually, I used Explorer to delete the TBB and TBI files from the Inbox folder, and that did seem to fix the problem. I am reporting this again because, although I may be the only one to have experienced this, someone else will certainly encounter it, and it could very well be a novice user (this is a released version) who has no clue what to do. Someone suggested in a followup in this thread back in June that the error message be changed to be more helpful. Not only that, but I think it is critical that there be some way to dismiss the error message without it continuing to pop up eternally. (And now to see if I can actually post this followup using TB!) Postscript: The answer is no, I wasn't able to post using TB. (I'm using Thunderbird again.) Worse yet, immediately after the send failed, I started to get the same error all over again, and again for the same file--which I had deleted earlier and supposedly had been rebuilt! (I guess it's possible that the file wasn't related to Inbox, and I hadn't deleted it. If that's the case, though, why did things work for a while with no errors? And if not, how do I find out which folder 0588F103.TBB does belong to? I asked this question last month, but didn't get an answer.) This time, I was somehow able to disconnect from the server before I started the repair. It didn't help, though; once the repair started, the error continued to pop up--over and over and over As I sent this message the first time (I thought), I was about to post regarding a couple of other problems I was having. Guess they'll have to wait until (if?) I'm able to get this one resolved. :-( -- Keith Russell ...Give instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser. Using The Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: CANNOT Repair My IMAP Database (Was: Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?)
Well, after I posted a few minutes ago, I started up The Bat! again, and this time, quickly switched away from Inbox to a different folder as soon as possible. I navigated around to several folders before going back to Inbox. It's now been several minutes, and no error messages. So what makes the difference??? I'm baffled -- Keith Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51.10: Problems with msi Install
Thanks, everyone, for your replies. Sorry to be so slow to respond. I was actually able to complete the installation last night, but forgot to post to this thread with that information, and was busy this morning. In any case, the thread has turned out to be very educational. I will know in the future not to rename a directory involved in an msi installation At the same time, I'm glad I didn't have to repartition my hard drive just to install TB, as Dmitry's suggestion would have required! It was as simple as just clicking Cancel when the error dialog came up. Thanks, Stuart, for that suggestion. Now why didn't I think of that? -- Keith Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
3.51.10: Problems with msi Install
Hi, all. Here I am again, ready for another try...and I can't get the program to install! I am installing over a very old beta version (didn't write down the beta version and now I can't run the program). Before starting the installation I renamed the installation folder from TheBat to The Bat! (Finally graduated from DOS and I'm converting all my file and folder names to use spaces. :-)) I think the existing version may have been installed from an msi (several months ago), and that might be related to the problem I'm having (but I'm not sure). I started the installation and was prompted to install to the TheBat folder. I corrected the location and continued. The program popped up a dialog saying: The feature you are trying to use is on a network resource that is unavailable. Click OK to try again, or enter an alternate path to a folder containing the installation folder thebat_professional.msi. Interestingly, the pathname it was trying to install from was the path an old version on a logical drive that doesn't even exist on my system any more! I browsed to the correct location for the installation file-- which, of course, is not named thebat_professional.msi, but rather thebat_pro_3-51.msi--and continued. I then got this message: The file thebat_pro_3-51.msi is not a valid installation package. Ideas? Do I need to uninstall the old version before installing this? Or what? Thanks for your help. -- Keith Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Upgrading (Was: Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?)
Manuel Breitfeld wrote: Since you are a IMAP user I would strongly recommend to update to the newest beta version. Really, you *must* do this. ;-) Okay, so I think I have my problem fixed. What is the latest stable, safe version I should install to start testing again? I see some worrisome posts about the two latest versions -- Keith Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?
Hi, Val. Thanks very much for the quick reply. 9Val wrote: Hello Keith, KR I have tried clicking Yes and repairing the file, but it doesn't KR help. Every few seconds, this message pops up, making it KR impossible to work. You'd better to find out which IMAP mailbox it is and in disconnected state repair it through folder maintenance. Or you could use 'Clear cache' button. How do I find out which mailbox it is? And how do I get it to disconnect (especially with all the popup messages)? By the way, it's not a single mailbox. After I posted, I tried to exit TB and started getting error messages for another mailbox. When this happens, it's almost impossible to exit TB. KR Can someone tell me the best way to deal with this? Since this is KR IMAP, can I just delete the TBB file and let TB rebuild it? Yes, it is another way, but you should delete both TBB and TBI files (the way 'Clear cache' button works) Thanks. That might be the easiest way. KR I'm still on version 3.0.9.13. One reason that I have never KR upgraded this version and completely stopped using The Bat! some KR time ago is that it is unusable due to a constantly recurring KR error message. Since 3.0.9.13 there was a lot of changes of how IMAP works with message bases. It should be more reliable now, so if you'll fix corrupted base, try the newer version. I'm glad to hear that. I would REALLY like to be able to use The Bat! again! Thanks. Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
How Do I Repair My IMAP database?
Hi, everyone. I'm still on version 3.0.9.13. One reason that I have never upgraded this version and completely stopped using The Bat! some time ago is that it is unusable due to a constantly recurring error message. No matter which account I'm working in, one IMAP account continues to generate the following error: An error occurred while reading the message base ...\Fastmail (IMAP)\55DBCDFF.TBB. Do you want to repair the message base now? I have tried clicking Yes and repairing the file, but it doesn't help. Every few seconds, this message pops up, making it impossible to work. Can someone tell me the best way to deal with this? Since this is IMAP, can I just delete the TBB file and let TB rebuild it? Thanks. -- Keith Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: An error occurred while reading the message base (IMAP)
Clive Taylor wrote: Well, as a sample of one, I've given up on TB. I just went through the last few days of IMAP posts, and it looks like there might actually be six or seven of us still around IMAP operation is a disaster - and the prog seems to be going backwards in this area. It's so slow and unreliable here as to be just unusable - I really don't understand why Mulberry, OE, Thunderbird and Outlook all perform to a good to excellent standard and TheBat acts like the earliest possible concept alpha (even on released versions). This has been my impression, too. It seems as though every new version fixes a few things and breaks more. Now and again I install the latest beta and then lose patience and shut the prog down for a few more weeks. Exactly my experience, as well, but it's stretched into months at this point. Every time I install a new version, I experience some initial excitement and then suddenly it becomes unusable again. With v4 of Mulberry nearly ready and Thunderbird getting better it's unlikely that TheBat! will stay on my system for much longer. I've reached just about the same point. I'm ready to start testing the Mulberry beta. I'm not ready to uninstall TB! (I have too much of an investment in time and money in it to completely give up), but I think I'll restrict myself to testing major releases only--unless and until IMAP begins working properly (although there hasn't been a big difference between betas and released versions lately). PS for all POP users out there, I think TheBat! is unsurpassed for this protocol! Agreed. I've almost found myself wishing lately that I hadn't switched to IMAP, but I can never go back to POP3. It's looking more and more like it's going to be impossible for RIT to continue to patch a POP3 client and eventually create a successful IMAP client. Not only is it unreliable, but there are still important IMAP features missing (such as labels), and there appears to be no interest in adding them. Good luck to you. Current beta is 3.0.9.15 Return | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
An error occurred while reading the message base (IMAP)
Well, I'm back to posting using Thunderbird again. :-( I haven't seen the message I posted earlier using The Bat!, so I don't know if there was a problem with it. In any case, more serious problems have since developed. I had such high hopes yesterday. After several months of cold feet, I finally decided to bite the bullet and test TB!'s IMAP functioning with the latest beta. I worked for a couple of hours, and everything seemed to work much better than in the past. (There are still some basic IMAP features missing, but otherwise, everything seemed okay.) I left the program running overnight, and when I got up this morning, there was an error message on my screen: Could not create a new index of a message base. Awasu, my RSS reader, was also running, and also displayed an error: Can't load the feed items. It appears that the two errors might have been related, but I'm not sure how. Anyway, I closed both programs and started up The Bat! again. Here's where I seemed to make a serious error: I started experimenting with my settings. Now I found that it was impossible to work, with dozens of Command Center tasks reproducing like rabbits. One thing that I noticed was that for each folder, I now had FIVE IDENTICAL tasks, all saying, Sync with xxx. This resulted in the same problem that caused me to give up on Mulberry a few months ago, when I had to wait for long periods of time while headers were downloading, unable to read my messages. I clicked on a message and waited (and waited) for the body to download. Then, the status bar said something like Unable to select Spam folder (not the folder I had selected), and then I suddenly started to get error messages of the form: An error occurred while reading the message base ...\4D457154.TBB. Do you want to repair this message base now? At this point, if I clicked Yes, the Folder Maintenance Center opened with Check Integrity/Repair checked under Actions to Perform. Unfortunately, while all my IMAP folders were listed, I didn't know how these relate to the 4D457154.TBB message base. Should I open the Folder Maintenance Center, select all the folders, and repair them all? Is this safe with IMAP, or am I in danger of losing messages on the server, as has sometimes happened in the past? Does anybody know? -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.9.13 Return | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: An error occurred while reading the message base (IMAP)
Looks like my message got lost in the flurry of excitement about .15. Can anyone help me with this, or are there any IMAP users left here? Has everyone, including Allie, abandoned ship? -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.9.15 Return | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Thomas's Steve Lamb Mode (Was: Re: Culinary School of Fort Worth Super Suppers)
Thomas Fernandez wrote: Steve Lamb mode /SL mode ROTFL!!! -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.9.13 Return | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Ol' Stevie Boy. - was Re: Culinary School of Fort Worth Super Suppers
Leif Gregory wrote: LOL!!! I didn't think there were too many people here who still remembered him. Beat me to it, Leif. I was reading the old thread, and with your changed subject didn't see your reply before I posted. I think it would be pretty hard for anyone who was around with Steve to forget him. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.9.13 Return | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Update on the Status of Software
Greg Strong wrote: Respect I believe that would be WITH Respect. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Server closed connection
On August 9, 2003, I wrote: I wrote: I'm now unable to access my messages using TB. No matter which folder I click on, I'm connected to the server, then immediately get the error message, IMAP - Server closed connection. Am I the only one with this problem? 9val said he had found what was causing it, but I just installed the latest beta, and no change. I can completely unable to read my IMAP email. This happened to me again today. I'm now running 3.0.2.10, and things had been working so much better that I was seriously thinking I might be able to switch back to The Bat! And now my account is inaccessible again. :-( Val, are you there? What did you think was the problem in August? (That was 2.13 days!) Any new ideas at this point? -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
How Do I Keep IMAP From Connecting?
Hi, everyone. I hope someone can help me, because this is driving me crazy. I just changed my email provider. I have an IMAP account with my former ISP set up in The Bat!, but I can no longer log in. I downloaded all the messages from the server while the account was still active, and I want to be able to read them offline, so I have to leave the account there. But the login dialog keeps popping up (even when I'm working in another account). When it does, it's almost impossible to get rid of it. It takes numerous mouse clicks, which sometimes closes it normally and sometimes gives an access violation. Then a minute or two later, it's back again. In server settings for the account, under Mail management, Automatically connect to the server, I have nothing checked, yet TB! keeps tried to connect. Even now, as I compose this message in Thunderbird, this causes the login dialog, along with the entire TB! three-pane window, to pop up and obscure this composition window. I have to click 4 or 5 times to dismiss it before I can continue. The Bat! is unusable until I can resolve this issue. Since I haven't been using TB! regularly, I've probably forgotten about some obvious setting. If so, somebody please tell me what it is! I'm using 3.0.2.8, by the way. Reading about the various IMAP problems with later betas, I haven't dared to upgrade yet. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: How Do I Keep IMAP From Connecting?
Clarification: I just timed it, and I'm getting the login dialog every minute, exactly. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: gmail
Thomas Martin wrote: Somebody else has the possibility to invite me for a Gmail account? Thanks in advance. Email me privately if you still need one, and I'll be happy to help you out. I have several, if anyone else needs one. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.7 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: gmail
Stefan Dorscht wrote: Did you send already an invitation to Thomas Martin? No, I didn't, but it looks like you did. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.7 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: gmail
Peter Hampf wrote: or, if he can't wait it, try ebay and search for 'gmail'. You can get it there for a few cents. There are also some sites where you can get them for free. However, we have enough Gmail users here that I think anyone should have no trouble getting one here. There aren't as many new users looking for accounts as there used to be, so I usually have a few available. I still have several, in fact -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.7 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Optimum configuration
Hello, Peter. On Friday, November 5, 2004, 1:02:03 AM, you wrote: KR Like Michael and Bernd, I wasn't able to find these, either. I KR had a little trouble tracking down some of the others, as well, KR since some are out of sequence. These are only available in the daily build from yesterday. Ah...That explains it! KR 2.[X] Retrieve message structures together with message headers 9Val explained this to me yesterday: It retrieves information about all message parts (if it is multipart), and therefore knows about has message attachments or not Why would one not want this? KR 3.[ ] When browsing messages, retrieve only message text In newer builds - so that if a message is greater than n, TB! will not download attachments - a bit like the POP3 setting. So, in [ ] When browsing messages, retrieve only message text [ ] except messages smaller than [ ] K Bytes if I check only the first box, no attachments will be downloaded, and if I check the first two and put a number in the third, attachments will be downloaded only if the message is smaller than nK bytes? KR 4.[ ] Use precise counters (needs fast connection) This will show the message count on the server and not the difference between server and cached count - doing away with * and n I'm confused by this one. What does the * mean, anyway, and what is the difference between server and cached count? Thanks for the reply! -- Keith -- Keith Russell ...10.0 times 0.1 is hardly ever 1.0. Using The Bat! 3.0.2.4 Rush under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: A Question About IMAP Use
Clive Taylor wrote: Do you copy your messages to local folders? If so, how? I don't copy them all - after all, it's one of the advantages of IMAP that you can access all your mail all the time. Of course. That's the very reason I switched to IMAP. I guess I didn't make myself clear, though. Even if I leave the messages on the server, I would like to have a COPY of the messages on my PC so that I can, for example, import them into Mailbag Assistant for searching. Also, I have a problem in that I keep running out of space. Since it's rare that I would need to search for a year-old message from another location, I'm considering moving older messages onto my PC and just keeping more recent ones on the server. I'd prefer to keep copies of everything on the server, but just get too much email. Also, the bulk of my messages are in mailing lists, which aren't as important to maintain on the server. MailSnare (which I use for list traffic) doesn't have the facility for backing up your mail from the server but OTOH FastMail, that I use for my main mail and where I have a 2Gb allowance, allows you to zip your messages and download them to to your local machine on a folder by folder basis. It works well for me and I usually do this each month. That's good, but in what format are the messages saved? If you unzip them, how do you read them? Thanks for the reply. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: I'm concerned about running into bandwidth problems, at least with Fastmail. You shouldn't be. A full account with FastMail gives you 600Mb of storage while an enhanced a/c gives 2Gb. I was referring to bandwidth, not storage space. Even an enhanced membership allows just 1 GB of bandwidth for month. This is a lot if you're receiving messages, but I wouldn't want to use most of it up just transferring in messages from MailSnare. If space is an issue why not use a Gmail a/c (1Gb storage) and forward old mail there? I can give you an invite if you, and anyone else, wants one, (I have four left to give away). Thanks. I do have a Gmail account and have copies of all my messages there. However, I don't want to depend on it too much, though, in case they decide at some point to start charging, and there's no POP3 or IMAP access. Also, it will eventually fill up, too. In addition, I frequently get bounced messages that were undeliverable because Gmail doesn't like certain types of attachments. And some formats are not viewable in Gmail. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
By the way, I also have Gmail accounts to give away. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: [the_bat] IMAP: Optimum configuration
Michael Acklin wrote: These I-[ ] When browsing messages, retrieve only message text Could -[ ] except messages smaller than [ ] K Bytes Not Find -[ ] Use precise counters (needs fast connection) Like Michael and Bernd, I wasn't able to find these, either. I had a little trouble tracking down some of the others, as well, since some are out of sequence. I might be too late, since five people have already posted their settings using the same format, but might I request that posters organize their settings in menu order--something like the following? (Am I correct in assuming that [X] Local Outbox means [ ] Outbox:?) Account | Properties | Mail management [ ] Outbox: Automatically connect to the server: At startup [X] When account is selected [X] For managing folders [ ] By any command [ ] [ ] When inactive, disconnect after [ ] seconds Account | Properties | Mail management | Deletion [X] Compress emptied folders automatically Account | Properties | Mail management | IMAP Fine-Tune [X] Retrieve message structures together with message headers [ ] Compress folders when switching to another folder [ ] Automatically disconnect after synchronisation [X] When on-line, refresh folders every [1] minutes [X] Courier IMAP compatibility mode [ ] Auto-filtering Account | Properties | Options [X] Check mailbox at start-up [X] Periodical checking each [5] minutes ??? [ ] When browsing messages, retrieve only message text [ ] except messages smaller than [ ] K Bytes [ ] Use precise counters (needs fast connection) I find it interesting that there is such variation in settings, at least with the first three posts. (I haven't had a chance to compare the other two yet.) Of course, all three of you are using different server varieties, but still Maybe the conclusion to draw from all of this is that we each need to experiment with these settings ourselves, especially if we're connecting to a server different from the posted ones. Can someone explain to me the meanings of the following settings? 1. Automatically connect to server: For managing folders [ ] With any command [ ] 2.[X] Retrieve message structures together with message headers 3.[ ] When browsing messages, retrieve only message text 4.[ ] Use precise counters (needs fast connection) Thanks for all your contributions. This is turning into a really good education for me, and I'm sure for other subscribers as well. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: Keith, My two IMAP servers are FastMail and MailSnare, and there's no doubt that Mailsnare is the slower of the two here using TB but that might be because its message base is bigger than FastMail's. However, I don't notice the difference between the two accessing them via Mulberry. I don't know where that leaves you though. My MailSnare account expires in about three weeks, and I am probably going to switch to Fastmail, Runbox, or Fusemail, in the hope that performance will improve. Unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to test these alternatives with the volume of mail that I have on the MailSnare server. I haven't decided how I'm going to move my mail once I do switch, either. I'm concerned about running into bandwidth problems, at least with Fastmail. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello, Allie. I tried to send this using TB! several hours ago. In trying to determine why it hadn't showed up on the list, I found that the same thing happened as a couple of days ago: 30 copies of the message in the Outbox, all created one minute apart! So I'm back to using Thunderbird On Tuesday, November 2, 2004, 5:30:45 AM, you wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004 at 10:27:00 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: ... I have a suspicion that if you create a folder on the server called Sent and use that instead, you'll be Ok. TB! may have a problem reading that folder. Of course, you'd have to set the other clients to use this folder and they shouldn't have a problem. Thanks. I'll give that a try. This is another instance of TB! not supporting one of the major features of IMAP. If I use The Bat!, I have to give up several important IMAP functions I'm used to using in Thunderbird and Mulberry. I want to be able to start writing a message, and if I don't have time to finish it before leaving the house, save it to the Drafts folder and finish it somewhere else. That's why I switched to IMAP! Sounds like you need to use those other clients then. :-) You keep saying that. I don't know whether you're being facetious, whether you're just tired of listening to me complain and trying to get rid of me ;-), or whether you're making a serious suggestion! The developers say that implementing a draft folder would be a very involved task. Really? I missed that discussion. I wonder why that would be the case. I don't use ThunderBird because it doesn't have a lot of the features I wish to use. Not that I think it's trash. I think it's a great IMAP client. I agree on both points. I can understand your divided feeling though. All those nice TB! features to give up??? Please N! ;) Exactly. In the end, I just couldn't resist buying the new version! My reason for using IMAP is that it allows me to read my mail from multiple locations and not be worried about the mailbases at all locations being up to date. The other beauty is that copies of sent messages from all locations are accessible from all locations and message attributes/flags are the same at all locations. Absolutely. I'm not really in the habit of partially writing mail across locations. Probably because my preferred client makes that kindof like jumping hoops. :) :-) It's really not something I do a lot, either. I would just like to have it available. What I do do, though, is start writing a long message, get interrupted, and come back and finish with another client. Of course, if TB! were reliable enough to use all the time, I could stop doing that On the other hand, I think Mulberry was designed for a Cyrus server, which I'm using, and I still have those constant Waiting dialogs. I thought Mulberry worked fine for you? However, it apparently doesn't. :-) Not at all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I've actually done as much complaining on the Mulberry list as I've done here, due to all the time wasted on Waiting for server, which once it starts, displays for ever active folder before you can do anything else. I haven't had any other problems, but that one shortcoming has meant that I use it about the same way I do TB!--that is, mostly for testing and learning. Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! Sounds like you're using a relatively slow connection. Your wait times in your description below sounds like what happens to me at work. It sounds that way, doesn't it? But get this...I actually just upgraded my DSL connection from 640 Kbps to 1.5 Mbps! That's what makes this whole thing especially frustrating. Someone posted how to do this from the menu; I use the message's context menu, which lists a Reload command. It doesn't always help, though, as I'll describe later. No it will not always work. It will work, only if the message really needs reloading. If the original load request is in the queue, you've simply added another request. Good point. ... 3. I don't remember exactly what I did at this point (just clicking around), Don't click around. Selecting a folder initiates a number count and header sync. This quickly clogs the queue and you have to wait and wait and wait. Unlike ThunderBird, TB! will not spawn multiple connections to handle the many requests in parallel streams. Yes, I need to learn to stop doing this. I get really frustrated and just can't help myself. :-( ... 6. I selected Synchronize now, clicked on a message, and got No message loaded. I waited, and the message body finally displayed 30-60 seconds later. 'No message loaded' will show since it's getting the message list and will show messages only when that's done. Sure, but when you expect it to take
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hi, Raymund. Raymund Thomas Tump wrote: Looking at the messy quoting I'm glad staying with TB! :-) :-) Yes, that is one thing TB! does do better. Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. I can't see why it should be as fast as POP3 as long as you only have the Inbox. (Well, that may not be a likely environment...) If you have many folders asking for new messages has to be done for every folder, but that is your own decision. Well, that's the nature of IMAP: the ability to work with multiple folders on the server. The alternative is to leave everything in the inbox and sort messages with the client, but that seems to me to defeat the whole purpose of IMAP. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? It's in the folder properties. Oh, yes. Thanks. I keep looking for it in the folder's context menu, and of course it isn't there. Of course, Properties is listed in the context menu, but it takes an extra couple of clicks to clear the cache. It seems that just about every time someone posts an IMAP problem, the recommendation is to clear the cache, so it would be nice if it were a little more straightforward. Better yet would be if the developers could track down what's causing this frequent cache corruption. Other clients don't have that problem. Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:41 AM, Keith Russell wrote: I thought I had sent this off an hour ago, and I just discovered SEVENTEEN copies in my Outbox! How did that happen?!!! Seems that you have your Outbox server side. I'd make that local, unless you depend a lot on keeping drafts available for use on your other IMAP clients. TB! is still having problems with the Outbox being used server side. I avoid doing that. Actually, under Mail management in Account Properties, I have Outbox set to INBOX.Drafts, which of course is on the server. Of course, I also have Sent mail set to INBOX.Sent Items, and it does nothing. TB! doesn't even display my Sent Items folder. It does put my messages there, but if I want to look at one of my previously sent messages, I have to use another client. This is another instance of TB! not supporting one of the major features of IMAP. If I use The Bat!, I have to give up several important IMAP functions I'm used to using in Thunderbird and Mulberry. I want to be able to start writing a message, and if I don't have time to finish it before leaving the house, save it to the Drafts folder and finish it somewhere else. That's why I switched to IMAP! For some time, my experience was that with the synchronisation options for TB! set to work like ThunderBird's sync routines, their performance is about the same. Where ThunderBird get's the better of TB! is when you're forcing it to fulfil multiple requests. For example, you select a folder to update counts and sync headers and then move to another folder to continue reading new messages. ThunderBird will spawn another connection to do both tasks, while TB! will have to do all those tasks via the same connection. Yes, and of course, this is the natural thing to do. You don't want to have to sit and wait for every single task to complete. I bought TB! to make my email sessions more effective, not to slow me down. Good point. I hadn't thought of server/client compatibility. This means that if I change IMAP providers, as I may do in a few weeks, I could find the situation reversed. Interesting. Yes. This may be the case, though Mulberry works well with the big server apps. On the other hand, I think Mulberry was designed for a Cyrus server, which I'm using, and I still have those constant Waiting dialogs. Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! On the other hand, Thunderbird just WORKS. How do you reload the message? I didn't know that you could reload a message from the server. AFAIK, it's downloaded once and isn't downloaded again, unless you purge the folders cache, otherwise the message is loaded from the cache from then on. Someone posted how to do this from the menu; I use the message's context menu, which lists a Reload command. It doesn't always help, though, as I'll describe later. A question? When you're frustrated waiting on TB!, what do you do? Do you continue waiting It depends. I'll usually wait for a minute or two, then I may pick up something to read or switch to another application to do some work. Often I'll start up another client and work with it until the frustration dies down enough to check back and see if anything's happened yet. or do you exit and restart it in frustration. That sort of thing can really mess up the folder caches etc. I don't normally do this (I generally give it lots of time), but sometimes it can't be helped. I'll give a report below of the experience I had earlier this evening, and you'll see what I mean. I thought at first that this was the case, but the fact that the dates were identical for TB! and Mulberry threw me off, I guess. Both dates and times for the received columns are identical? Yes. Interesting, isn't it? but is there any way I can search The Bat! Wishes (or bugtracker) to find out? https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/main_page.php Where is the search? Are you supposed to use the box labeled Jump? I tried that last night (and again tonight), and it seems that no matter what I enter there, I get the following: APPLICATION ERROR #1100 Issue 0 not found. Now, as promised, here's my account of what happened earlier tonight, as I tried to read unread messages in this thread and respond to them: 1. I clicked on my TBBETA folder, but, although the TBBETA message list was displaying, the status bar said I was still in INBOX. 2. I cleared the TBBETA cache. The status bar now said, IMAP - Server closed connection. 3. I don't remember exactly what I did at this point (just clicking around), but the TB! window went gray and I wasn't able to do anything, including minimizing the program or showing the desktop. (A word of explanation here: I had Power Menu running and had set the main TB! window to Always on top, so it's possible
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:32 PM, Martin Webster wrote: Following Allie's lead I have played around with the various settings and come up with optimum settings for my server. Perhaps we should start sharing this information, get confirmations etc. so Ritlabs can have an IMAP wizard based on server/connection type? Part of the problem with TB! IMAP support is the many combinations of options. Yes. This is an idea. I also think this is an excellent idea. I've thought of asking you (Allie) to post all the settings you have chosen to make The Bat! work like Thunderbird, but this becomes a major task, due to the number of setting scattered among a variety of different menus. So I don't know how feasible the idea of sharing server-specific settings is, but it sounds good. Apart from the settings, I find that I have to be mindful. Clicking from folder to folder in frustration, wondering why nothing will happening, racks up the queue of tasks and makes matters worse. Good point. This may well be part of my problem, because I definitely do do this. Killing TB! in the middle of a sync operation may also lead to TB! discarding the partially built cache and starting over again. However, I can't really blame users when there's no reasonable progress indicator as to what's happening. There's not much visual difference between a hung queue and one that's slowly underway. You're right. The lack of a progress indicator is a big problem. As frustrating as Mulberry's long waits are, at least there's a dialog box telling you what's happening and counting the seconds, so that you know, first of all, that something is happening, second, what it is that's happening, and third, how long it's taken. To answer Keith's question, though no keystroke has been assigned through the default setup, he can easily assign one via the edit shortcuts dialog (Alt-F12). Yes, I thought of that, too. Guess I'll have to figure out how to do it. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Raymund Thomas Tump wrote: This is normally connected to moving messages from one folder to another. If you delete the cache everything is fine again. I move message from my Inbox to a common folder and if I then copy/move a message from another folder to my Inbox it doesn't show up at all or it is linked to the message I moved to the common folder. Thanks for this explanation, Raymund. The next time this happens, I'll look into whether or not this might have been the cause, and try clearing the cache to see if it helps. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: Rather than echo all of what Allie has said in his reply I can confirm that (unlike Allie) I can't rely on TB for everyday, real-world IMAP use. It's just so frustrating to wait for a couple of minutes for messages to display while TB churns away. I can see my router working so it's not a matter of the prog hanging. I've now taken to closing and reopening TB at intervals and making a cup of coffee while it loads and sorts out its message base. Not good. No, it isn't, and I understand EXACTLY what you're saying. See my reply to Allie above for an extreme example. OTOH, Mulberry doesn't exhibit any of the IMAP issues here that TB does - and that's probably because it was designed primarily as an IMAP, rather than POP, client. Yes, and Thunderbird has even few issues. I experience duplicate messages, too, on a regular basis. My largest message bases are around 2,000 messages (TB groups) but I experience these hangs even on an account with just a few hundred messages. No combination of synchronisation or cache deletion really helps. And this is all VERY discouraging -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Martin Webster wrote: Keith Russell [KR], wrote: KR Now, however, I can confirm others' reports of random long pauses KR when downloading message bodies. Like Clive, this has KR always been a problem for me. As I reported previously, I see KR similar, but even longer pauses (sometimes) when moving between KR folders. (TB! is set to not synchronize.) Yes, I see these too... usually a single IMAP task has stalled. Once removed manually things get back to normal. I'm going to have to start checking Control Center on a regular basis and see if deleting tasks makes a difference for me. KR Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! KR I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I KR was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the KR wrong message. I've had this too. It's most likely a damaged message base... or at least clearing the local cache did the trick for me. So, as I asked in another message, why does The Bat! have so many problems with damaged message bases and/or corrupt cache, when I never see these problems with other clients? I now use 'Compress folders when switching to another folder' and haven't had a problem since. Thanks for this suggestion. I'll give this a try. KR These problems are so pervasive that, even though I finally broke KR down and paid for the upgrade, I still use The Bat only for KR testing new releases. I always end up going back to Thunderbird KR and Mulberry. Really? NC :-) NC??? KR However, I discovered that when I looked at the same KR thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not KR listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found KR that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October KR 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column KR in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was KR received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th KR was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was KR normal. KR Even more strangely, in each case, the bad message is shown as KR having been created/sent exactly two hours earlier than the good KR one. KR Any ideas on this one? No... and I should have left for work by now and will read again later. :-) Okay. :-) Thanks for taking the time to post what you did. BTW, can you include IMAP in the subject next time? Yes, I apologize for not doing that. I wanted to provide a descriptive subject, but it was getting very long, so I decided to shorten it at the expense of the word IMAP. Probably a bad choice on my part. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. I haven't posted for a while because it seemed that no one was having the long pauses that I was experiencing with IMAP. Someone (Allie, I think) suggested that they might be due to the large number of messages I have on the server. This seemed strange to me, since, with POP3, at least, users tend to rave about The Bat's performance with large message bases. Now, however, I can confirm others' reports of random long pauses when downloading message bodies. Like Clive, this has always been a problem for me. As I reported previously, I see similar, but even longer pauses (sometimes) when moving between folders. (TB! is set to not synchronize.) Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the wrong message. These problems are so pervasive that, even though I finally broke down and paid for the upgrade, I still use The Bat only for testing new releases. I always end up going back to Thunderbird and Mulberry. I have also occasionally seen the behavior Martin reported of random disconnects when moving between messages. I haven't observed tasks getting stuck, but I'll be watching for this in the future. In addition, earlier today I had something VERY strange happen as I was reading a thread from one of my Yahoo groups. I was getting No message loaded for quite a few of the messages in the thread. This is something I've seen quite a bit, but it had always seemed to be random (and VERY frustrating). However, I discovered that when I looked at the same thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was normal. Even more strangely, in each case, the bad message is shown as having been created/sent exactly two hours earlier than the good one. Any ideas on this one? As I investigated this problem, I also discovered a couple of interesting things I hadn't noticed before. First of all, I cannot find the Received date and time (in the Received column) anywhere in the message headers. Can anyone tell me where this information comes from? Since it's identical in both TB! and Mulberry, it must be in the message somewhere, but where? I also (as an off-topic comment) noticed that Thunderbird does not display all the Received: headers in the message, but only the first and last. This strikes me as very strange, because of the importance of these headers in tracking spam. I also continue to be frustrated that TB! does not allow threading on both references and subject. In my thread of six good messages, when I thread by reference, four thread properly and two do not, because they don't have reference headers. All six thread properly in both Thunderbird and Mulberry. Finally, I did something, and I'm not sure what, that caused even this imperfect threading to break. Now, instead of being broken into two threads, the twelve messages (good and bad) are now displayed in seven threads! Anybody know what might have caused this? I'll be anxiously waiting to hear from the IMAP experts! ;-) -- Keith Russell ...Scotty, beam us aboard. Aye, sir. Will a 2x4 do? Using The Bat! 3.0.2.4 Rush under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello, Allie. I thought I had sent this off an hour ago, and I just discovered SEVENTEEN copies in my Outbox! How did that happen?!!! And after trying again to post using TB!, I now have two more. :-( One has an icon in the second column; the second doesn't. (What is that, anyway?) As a result, this reply will be sent using Mulberry. On Sunday, October 31, 2004, 9:56:09 PM, you wrote: On Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 11:49:01 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: Someone (Allie, I think) suggested that they might be due to the large number of messages I have on the server. This seemed strange to me, since, with POP3, at least, users tend to rave about The Bat's performance with large message bases. IMAP is different from POP3. With POP3, you're working with a message base stored locally. With IMAP, your message bases are stored on the server. You keep syncing them with a local cache representation that needs updating to reflect what's currently on the server. Syncing a large message base takes longer than syncing a small message base. Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. The point I was trying to make, though, was that I would hope that TB!'s IMAP performance would compare as favorably to other clients as does its POP3 performance. However, where Mulberry and Thunderbird seem to be little affected by the volume of my messages, it does appear that The Bat! is. Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the wrong message. Now that's really odd. I don't really have an explanation for such behaviour. So obviously, you haven't seen this. Has anyone else? I have problems with Mulberry. You're having problems with TB!. IMAP needs good client/server compatibility to work well. You may find that your client of choice depends on how well it works with your IMAP server. MDaemon, my own IMAP server is more TB! than Mulberry friendly. Lucky me. Good point. I hadn't thought of server/client compatibility. This means that if I change IMAP providers, as I may do in a few weeks, I could find the situation reversed. Interesting. In addition, earlier today I had something VERY strange happen as I was reading a thread from one of my Yahoo groups. I was getting No message loaded for quite a few of the messages in the thread. This is something I've seen quite a bit, but it had always seemed to be random (and VERY frustrating). Quite often, the 'no message loaded' is associated with TB! being quite busy at working with its queue of tasks. You then have to wait for those tasks to complete. Unlike Mulberry and ThunderBird, TB! works via a single connection to the server. One of TB!'s future development plans is support for multiple connections to the server. Yes, but of course Mulberry's big problem is lack of multithreading I did some experimenting tonight and found that reloading the message often displays the body. Is there a keystroke for that, so I don't have to navigate the menu every time? However, I discovered that when I looked at the same thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was normal. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? I found a couple of messages in my Inbox folder tonight that exhibited the same behavior. Again, those with a received date corresponding to the sent date cannot be read. Copies of the same messages received on the 22nd are fine! I cannot find the Received date and time (in the Received column) anywhere in the message headers. Can anyone tell me where this information comes from? Since it's identical in both TB! and Mulberry, it must be in the message somewhere, but where? The received time in the TB! received column is the time the message was received by TB! and not the server. You'll therefore not see that time in the message header. I thought at first that this was the case, but the fact that the dates were identical for TB! and Mulberry threw me off, I guess. I'm guessing that I probably used Thunderbird for three days before I got around to checking out TB! and Mulberry again on the 22nd. I must have started them up at the same time so that the received date and times would correspond. I haven't been able to find the date Thunderbird received these messages, because the Date column seems to mean the sent date, and I don't know
IMAP Client Decisions (Was: Re: 3.0.1 RC6 is now available)
Hi, Clive. --On Monday, October 11, 2004 3:54 PM +0100 Clive Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've crossed this bridge, Keith. Although I miss some of TB's features, rock-solid, fast IMAP performance is more important to me for my domain mail and I don't regret a penny I spent on a licence for Mulberry. Time will tell whether I can say the same about the (admittedly small) sum I spent on the v3 upgrade to TB. Interesting. Tero has turned up on the Mulberry mailing list, seeking help on migrating from The Bat! to Mulberry. I wonder how many others who don't post here have already made, or are in the process of making, the decision to switch to another client. Or is it just a few of us for whom IMAP is such a major issue? On the other hand, Mulberry also has some serious deficiencies that are not being addressed, or are being addressed too slowly for my taste. The big differences are that what it does it does very well, it's very stable, and it has very complete documentation. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.1 RC/7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP support (was: Filter problem with IMAP account)
Hi, Oliver. Olivier Mascia wrote: Is there some central wish-list about TB IMAP features somewhere ? I'd like to read it and probably add some input. Peter recently started a thread on this topic at: msgid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] I found your discussion of POP3/IMAP clients highly interesting and educational, and your suggestion of separating POP3 and IMAP clients to be quite thought provoking. I'm surprised that it hasn't generated more discussion here. In between, I now daily use TB 3.0 for IMAP. But I still need to daily use other clients for some tasks. I am also using multiple clients. However, in my case, usage is reversed. I use mostly other clients, and use TB! only occasionally. There are just too many IMAP features still missing, and that, combined with the performance issues I'm having, makes it too time consuming and frustrating to use on a regular basis. The only fear I have is that the remaining things to add or correct might be too cumbersome to implement in an email client that has to do POP too. The weakiest move of Mulberry was when they decided to add POP support to it. The number of deficiencies sky rocketed at that time. This, too, I find very interesting. I didn't start using Mulberry till recently, so I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for a very stimulating post! -- Keith Current beta is 3.00.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP Bugs: 3.x (compiling a list)
One thing that I do notice is that TB! is constantly updating the Unread and Total numbers in my folder list. I do have a lot of messages (over 63,000) and a lot of folders, but I don't understand why the numbers would even need to be updated when all my folders are set to Don't synchronize. I just experienced a specific example of what I'm talking about: While viewing my Inbox, I sent myself a message. I then switched to my Spam folder. I saw a list of headers displayed, with the count showing one new message. However, no new header was displayed, and the status message didn't change over a period of a couple of minutes. I then checked my messages in another account, and came back to the Spam folder in my main account. This time, NO headers were displayed, and 15 minutes later, they still are not, and the status bar still says, 9/20/2004, 10:22:13: SEND connection finished - 1 messages sent. TB! clearly hasn't frozen up, because the counts are still changing, but I have no way to check my Spam folder. See what I mean? -- Keith Current beta is 3.00.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP Bugs: 3.x (compiling a list)
Marcus Ohlström wrote: This I would like to see using POP3 as well. I would like to be able to create custom flags for messages, much like colour groups but with the possibility to assign more then one colour group to each message. I agree. Thunderbird and Mulberry do not allow more than one client flag per message, and I don't know whether the IMAP RFP even allows it. It certainly would be nice, however. -- Keith Current beta is 3.00.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.0 beta 1
MANY others have posted their thoughts, most of which I agree with. To be specific: Maxim Masiutin wrote: - completely new filtering system, easier to understand and better to manage; Maybe, but I haven't dared to use it, reading of its many problems--especially with IMAP. Is it fixed in 3.0? I'll believe it when I hear Allie and other heavy IMAP users here say that it is. I haven't installed the version 3 beta, and don't plan to as things stand right now. - automatic filtering on IMAP; Okay. This might be a good thing, but not terribly important to me, since I do my filtering on the server. In my mind, there are more important IMAP features that should be fixed and working. Not only is IMAP full of bugs, but important IMAP functionality is missing. For example, what about IMAP labels? In Thunderbird and Mulberry, I can label a message Important, Work, Personal, To Do, and so forth, and the header color is changed accordingly. I can filter by these labels, so that I can run a good IMAP client ANYWHERE and filter those messages to which I want to reply. As far as I can tell, the only similar feature in The Bat is still flags, which are purely local. And I can't view the labels that I've set in another client. If I'm wrong, someone PLEASE correct me. - mail chat (instant messager via simple mail protocols pop3/smtp); Useless to me. - chat virtual folders for watching conversation threads or waiting for replies to specific messages; This one is worthwhile. - right-to-left text editor for eastern languages; Important for some. On the other hand, I still can't view Korean, and I know of at least one list subscriber who abandoned The Bat because of problems with Japanese--and I'm sure there are more. - more anti-spam options; - built-in Bayesian anti-spam plugin; Like others here, I feel this is unnecessary, when excellent Bayesian filters such as POPFile, SpamBayes, and K9 are out there. SpamBayes is currently the only one that supports IMAP, but IMAP support is coming very soon to POPFile. - support for Microsoft Office Keyboard commands; Okay. - virtual folders and Folder View Modes; This is a good addition. - connectivity to MS Exchange servers; Important for some. - new signed MSI installation - improved XP-friendly interface, and possiblity to apply different skins to the program interface. Two more feel-good additions. So again, users install a new beta only to discover, with no forewarning, that they're going to be charged unless they backtrack to an earlier version? And apparently there's no indication of cost. No way will I install this beta until some of these questions are answered. As I recall, I've been seeing the same complaints here for a long, long time, even before version 2 was released: 1. New (often cosmetic) features are introduced before critical bugs are fixed. 2. There is no published road map. We have to depend on vague promises from the developers, and often, hints dropped here and there, which we may or may not see. 3. There seems to be little concern for user input. The developers essentially ignore requests they don't like and work on things they enjoy, but jump on suggestions that are useful to only a few. Not only have these problems not been fixed, but they've been steadily getting worse. It's becoming an Ritlabs habit to release a final version without notice, while numerous beta bugs are still being reported. I have not been using The Bat for several months because of all its problems, particularly with IMAP. I've recently started to use it a little more, seeing some small improvements with IMAP. But now I'm expected to pay for some vague promise of its getting fully fixed in the future? No, thanks. If things stay as they are, I will probably abandon The Bat after several years of past use. I'm now considering the following options: 1. Mulberry: A truly compliant IMAP client. Unlike Allie, I like the product, although it did take some getting used to. It does have a problem with multithreading, which causes server disconnects on my particular server (few others seem to have this problem). Once that gets fixed, I'm on my way. 2. Becky: A better IMAP client (I understand, although I haven't used it yet). Ongoing development, fewer bugs, and handles Asian languages well. Probably the closest product to The Bat out there. 3. Thunderbird: The one I'm using now. Lacking in some of The Bat's wonderful features, but it just works. When bugs are reported, they're fixed. And it's free. Max and Stefan, I haven't seen a real response to any of the concerns expressed here, other than Look at all the wonderful changes from 1 to 2, and If you pay us, we promise to make IMAP work and fix the other bugs when we get around to it. Please don't let a once-leading-edge product fade into obscurity. Current beta is 3.00 Beta/1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta
Re: IMAP - Server closed connection
I wrote: I'm now unable to access my messages using TB. No matter which folder I click on, I'm connected to the server, then immediately get the error message, IMAP - Server closed connection. Am I the only one with this problem? 9val said he had found what was causing it, but I just installed the latest beta, and so change. I can completely unable to read my IMAP email. -- Keith Current beta is 2.13 'Lucky' Beta/3 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP - Server closed connection
Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. I had IMAP working fairly well until yesterday I had allowed my email to build up to where I had nearly 2,000 messages in my inbox. I decided to those messages and an equal number in a second folder into a third folder. I moved a few using TB, had problems so I moved quite a few more using Thunderbird, and ending up moving the rest using MailSnare's Web interface. I'm now unable to access my messages using TB. No matter which folder I click on, I'm connected to the server, then immediately get the error message, IMAP - Server closed connection. The message headers I can see are still in their original locations (at least the ones I didn't move using TB). Can anyone tell me how I can get things working again? -- Keith Russell ...If all goes well, you've overlooked something! Using The Bat! 2.12.03 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 2.13 quot;Luckyquot; Beta/1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: My Bad News
Maxim Masiutin wrote: I don't know why TB isn't working with SSL, or why it would have been working with 2.11.03 and not 2.11.04 or 2.12 Beta/1. We are eager to fix that. Just give us the addresses of such servers. If there are already registered reposts at the www.ritlabs.com/bt, please also let us know. Thanks, Max. The server I'm using is mail.mailsnare.net. The Web page is http://www.mailsnare.net. -- Keith Current beta is 2.12 Beta/1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: My Bad News
Allie Martin wrote: Is ThunderBird working fine using SSL? Yes, it is -- Keith Current beta is 2.12 Beta/1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
So...Yuki, what will you use that is competitive and fully supports DBCS? I've been waiting a long time, too. :-( P.S. Feel free to reply to me off list Current beta is 2.11 Beta/8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP Folder Hierarchy: Where Is It?
Hi, Jonathan. Well, I've tried everything I can think of, and things still aren't making sense. See below --On Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:58 PM -0600 Jonathan Angliss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to find out if it is really a MailSnare issue, or a TB issue, you could do it all by hand... that is, pull out the old telnet application, and have some fun (this only works if you're not running IMAP over SSL/TLS) # telnet server 143 A01 LOGIN username password A02 LSUB * A03 LOGOUT Here's what I got: * OK IMAP4 Ready mail.mailsnare.net 0001b702 A01 LOGIN magicspeller x A01 OK You are so in A02 LSUB * * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Becky * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Mulberry * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Powertools * LSUB () . TBBETA.Lists.TBBETA * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Time Mgt * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Zoot * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.iRider A02 OK Completed (0.000 secs 7 calls) Now try the same again, but with LIST instead of LSUB, and see what happens again? Partial results: * OK IMAP4 Ready mail.mailsnare.net 0001b702 A01 LOGIN magicspeller XXX A01 OK You are so in A02 LIST * * LIST (\HasChildren) . INBOX * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Action * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Drafts * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Family * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.INBOX.Drafts * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.INBOX.Trash * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Jobs * LIST (\HasChildren) . INBOX.Lists * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.Aggregators * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.Becky * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.SpamBayes * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.The Bat.TBBETA * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.The Bat.TBTech * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Lists.The Bat.TBUDL * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Sent Items * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Spam * LIST (\HasNoChildren) . INBOX.Trash A02 OK Completed (0.020 secs 55 calls) All the above corresponds with the fact that Mulberry and Becky both handle all my folders properly. Incidentally, are you running over TLS/SSL? Can you test without if you are? I've been testing without until I can get things working. Have you tried hitting the Reset List button under IMAP Management (forgot the real name)? That doesn't help, either. See my reply to Alexander for more -- Keith Current beta is 2.02 CE RC2 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: IMAP Folder Hierarchy: Where Is It?
Thanks, Alexander. I'd missed this option. See below. --On Monday, December 08, 2003 11:53 AM +0500 Alexander Leschinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, in _my_ imap-bugs hunting I prefer TB logs: thebat.exe /IMAPTRACEfilename, which works for any connection type, BTW Partial results: ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES IDLE C: B2 Login magicspeller S: E1 OK CAPABILITY S: B2 OK You are so in C: M3 LIST INBOX/ C: N4 LSUB * C: O5 STATUS INBOX (UNSEEN RECENT MESSAGES UIDVALIDITY UIDNEXT) C: F6 SELECT INBOX S: M3 OK Completed (0.000 secs 1 calls) C: H7 CREATE S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Becky S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Mulberry S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Powertools S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.TBBETA S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Time Mgt S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.Zoot S: * LSUB () . INBOX.Lists.iRider S: N4 OK Completed (0.000 secs 7 calls) S: * STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES 161 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 3135 UIDVALIDITY 1067938486 UNSEEN 33) S: O5 OK Completed So it looks as though The Bat at least knows about my subscribed folders. Why doesn't it display them for me? -- Keith Current beta is 2.02 CE RC2 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP Folder Hierarchy: Where Is It?
Thanks, Jonathan. Finally, some progress! --On Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:06 PM -0600 Jonathan Angliss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LSUB returns only your subscribed folders. In this case, INBOX isn't in that list, I wonder if TB is having some kind of hang up over that? Try doing this: # telnet mailserver 143 A01 LOGIN username password A02 SUBSCRIBE INBOX A03 LOGOUT Then login to TB, go to the folder management, and hit refresh. Suddenly, INBOX is expandable! I now have all my subscribed folders in The Bat. Now, a couple of questions: 1. Do you have to be subscribed to a folder in order to display it in The Bat? 2. I subscribed to these folders using Mulberry. If I hadn't done so, how would they have gotten subscribed? How would I subscribe to a folder in The Bat if only subscribed folders are displayed? You might want to cheat, and create a second account, as I've found the Refresh link to be unreliable. I still have a folder in my listing that I deleted and unsubscribed from about 3 weeks ago, and it still won't update. Didn't have to do this 8-). All the above corresponds with the fact that Mulberry and Becky both handle all my folders properly. It might just be a way they're handling them. Some mail clients disregard the LSUB list (subscribed list), and give you options to display/hide folders independent of the IMAPs settings for that folder (subscribed/unsubscribed). I don't think Becky even has the concept of subscribed. It just displays all the folders on the server. Mulberry shows INBOX, then a Subscribed folder with all subscribed folders indented underneath it. Next is INBOX again, with ALL folders indented underneath it. -- Keith Current beta is 2.02 CE RC2 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP Folder Hierarchy: Where Is It?
Hi again 8-). --On Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:08 PM -0600 Jonathan Angliss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it looks as though The Bat at least knows about my subscribed folders. Why doesn't it display them for me? INBOX isn't subscribed. However INBOX is a required box according to the RFCS (it's a special folder, you cannot delete/rename/create it). So...how does INBOX get subscribed, unless you do it manually via telnet? The CREATE item up there is... unusual to say the least, Is this not being generated by TB? Is it coming from the server? you should have an error line somewhere too. Why? I'm wondering if TB is having issues because there is no subscribed inbox (see my other email). It does appear that that was the case. Where can I learn how to interpret a trace file and see a description of IMAP syntax? Thanks again. -- Keith Current beta is 2.02 CE RC2 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP Folder Hierarchy: Where Is It?
Hi again, Gary. --On Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:38 AM -0600 Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Account properties / mail management / and put in INBOX in the root folder section.. then restart TB!... You should then see it when you right click on the main folder and manage IMAP folders Well... I had .INBOX in there. I changed it to INBOX and restarted. No change; Manage IMAP Folders still shows just INBOX You should not have a .(dot) before your main INBOX in any case, as INBOX is treated as special (if your IMAP server is using for your DEPOT = Maildir++ ) Told you I was new to IMAP! I meant to type INBOX. and forgot where the period went (very embarrassing) You might want to try setting up a fresh IMAP account within TB!, as I had to do this between earlier beta releases, to get the subfolders working properly. Under mail management, depending on your IMAP server, you can either leave it blank, or put in INBOX, or try INBOX/ and you can also try INBOX. also... some IMAP servers seem to recognize . better than / Well, I deleted the account and created a new one. I tried leaving the box empty; I tried INBOX, INBOX/, AND INBOX. Still no luck 8-(. Thanks to both you and Jonathan for the suggestions; I was hopeful for a while. Am I the only one using MailSnare? If there are any other successful MailSnare users here, please let me know what settings you're using! Current beta is 2.02 CE RC2 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 2.01.03 - X-mailer header
Hello, Gary. On Monday, October 20, 2003, 7:59:44 PM, you wrote: Ah, what you have to do is config TB!'s SMTP to send using localhost or 127.0.0.1 and then config Xray's SMTP to your actual ISP SMTP address. This way, TB! sends it through Xray, and Xray changes the headers to what you wish out to your ISP.. Okay, so what if I already have a Bayesian filter sitting between TB and the server at 127.0.0.1. How would you suggest I set up Xray? -- Keith Russell ...Winning isn't everything - but losing SUCKS! Using The Bat! 2.01 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 2.01.03 - X-mailer header
Hello, Gary. On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 8:09:53 AM, you wrote: K Okay, so what if I already have a Bayesian filter sitting between TB K and the server at 127.0.0.1. How would you suggest I set up Xray? You could try putting Bayes on 127.0.0.2 and Xray on 127.0.0.1 and see if that works ... Don't know if it would work in Windows, but it definitely would work in Unix/Linux.. Okay, I'll try that. On second thought, it should not matter if Bayes is already on 127.0.0.1, as Bayes is already used, but for POP3, port 110, and Xray is used for SMTP (port 25). Untested, but very possibly you would not need to do anything different. In my case, it does matter, because SpamBayes uses 25 for training Thanks. -- Keith ...A list is only as strong as its weakest link. - Don Knuth Using The Bat! 2.01 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 2.01.03 - X-mailer header
Hello, Marcus. Okay, so what if I already have a Bayesian filter sitting between TB and the server at 127.0.0.1. How would you suggest I set up Xray? The bayesian filter works on port 110, used by POP3. XRay works on port 25 for SMTP. No problem using them both at the same time. Actually, I'm using SpamBayes, and it can be set up on both 110 and 25. The latter is used for training. I haven't gotten it to work yet, so it's currently a non-issue, but if I want to use Xray, it will be at some point. -- Keith ...Always draw your curves, then plot the data. Using The Bat! 2.01 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on a 2.4 GHZ Pentium IV with 512 MB. Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
OT: Thailand? (Was: Re: Recent (was: A giant step for mankind))
Hello, Thomas. On Thursday, August 7, 2003, 9:55:37 AM, you wrote: due to the internet speed I get in Thailand, IMAP is impractical for me. Thomas, since when have you been in Thailand? Weren't you in Taiwan? Any contact with tracer over there? -- Keith Russell Current beta is 2.0b1 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Base 64 Problems? (Was: Re[2]: 1.63 Beta/10)
Hi, Allie. On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:56:16 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Monday, June 09, 2003, 5:56 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: Keith Russell, [KR] wrote: KR I'm running beta 9, but for some time now, a large number of message KR in this list display like this. This one appears to be in KR multipart/mixed MIME format. It would seem that you're having problems with base64 encoded messages. How is this one? As you can see, it's fine. However, the next one from Marck is not Keith ...Fire, Mr. Worf! [Worf picks up extinguisher] Current beta is 1.63b10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Writing and Reading Asian Languages (Was: Re: Writing and readingJapanese)
Hi, Yuki. On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, 5:20:10 PM, you wrote: Does anyone know the status, if any, of full DBCS support for TB? (And BTW, what good, if any, is the Shift-JIS addition to the character sets, since selecting it does not allow me to view *any* Japanese properly, nor of course, enter it?) I am having extreme problems continuing to use TB on a daily basis. The problems in the beta are as bad or even worse than the release version. To outline: English OS; Need to be able to send and receive Japanese e-mail, however. Japanese OS is not an option. To read Japanese e-mail in TB, one apparently needs a front-end decoder, sadly. I should mention that using English Outlook, absolutely NOTHING is necessary to read Japanese e-mail. It simply appears, formatted perfectly. No special keys to hit; no nothing. It just pops into the viewer as readable Japanese. It is almost impossible for me to *send* Japanese in TB. Seems a hit or miss proposition as to whether my recipients will be able to read it or not. Oddly, even Japanese I create in other programs and paste into TB, and that I can read in the TB editor using my decoder, ends up illegible in many cases to my recipients. So I suspect TB of mangling my Japanese mail, somehow. Japanese mail I send using Outlook arrives fine, but if I receive a reply to it in TB, and I then reply to that reply using TB, not only is my reply illegible, but even the quoted text of the original Outlook-created Japanese is illegible to my recipients. I admit I'm not too technically minded about this, but what is TB doing to my Japanese, that once readable Japanese is rendered illegible later? Dear Rit Labs: Microsoft has SOLVED all of this. They have a global IME to input Japanese or Chinese or Korean into Outlook (as well as into Word or into MSIE), and Outlook displays Japanese e-mail perfectly. (I am talking about English Outlook on an English OS.) I am getting weary of using TB for my English mail, and Outlook for my Japanese mail. So weary that I will not buy your next TB version unless you have fully solved these problems. Sorry, but you seem to have your priorities out of order, apparently working on a lot of bells and whistles that are less important (at least to me) than being able to communicate with a billion Chinese and 125 million Japanese, many of whom need to communicate in both English and their native character set. Are you going to kiss this market sayounara? Microsoft seems to think we are important. I'm running out of patience on this, I'm afraid. I see no development schedule posted at the Rit Labs site -- something *any* responsible software company does as a matter of routine. So I have no idea if development on this is even on the horizon. All I hear is innuendo and rumor. I'm afraid I can no longer recommend this e-mail client to my friends and associates. Life is too short. Surprisingly, I notice that you and I are both still around I'm quoting nearly your entire message because it's 8 months old and still very well stated, yet unanswered, as far as I know. Eight months ago, you were threatening to abandon The Bat!; yet, you haven't. Why? I have (again) been experiencing the hit and miss characteristic of TB when it comes to Asian languages. In the past, I have been able to create and view Korean messages using TB together with NJStar Communicator (usually). However, I decided to try again and am now getting wildly varying results (none of them good). Have you, or anyone else here, heard any more about whether or not DBCS will be supported in version 2? Of course, even that becomes an academic question if version 2 never arrives, and I see very little evidence that it ever will. As much as I would miss the TB lists (I hate Becky's support list), I'm truly on the verge on switching to Becky. This constantly waiting without knowing whether or not I will ever be rewarded for doing so is wearing me out -- Keith Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB. Current beta is 1.62b5 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Writing and Reading Asian Languages (Was: Re: Writing and readingJapanese)
Hi, Marck. On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:07:10 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 5:07 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: You may see little evidence, but I'd suggest that's what you get for not looking closely enough ;-) (joking - no offence intended). Understood 8-). And I'll admit that I haven't been following things as closely as I used to. Seriously though, version 2 is currently being worked on very hard indeed at RITlabs. That's why there is little movement right now. Yes, I understand that--really. Although v2 has not been worked on before this summer, I would say that 80% of the originally slated v2 features made it into the 1.6 series. I call that evidence myself. Except that, as I understand it, the two versions will be so very different that getting the functionality into 1.6 doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be easy to implement it in v2. The new v2 kernel has already been used for mail exchange within RITlabs. We are told that V2 definitely contains a rendering engine capable of showing every national character set there is. These are two things that I didn't know until today, and that are very encouraging to hear. I'm not saying any more than that and I'm certainly not going to talk timescales. All I have on that front is some guesses by the four man team slaving away on this job and they really shouldn't be held to them. I don't blame you--or them. No, I've said too much! I don't know if it's too much, but thank you! -- Keith ...I smell a rat. Did you bake it or fry it? Current beta is 1.62b5 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Becky 2.05 V The Bat
Okay, Syafril, what is KMail? 8-) -- Keith ...You can name your salary here. I call mine Fred. _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bugs/Wishes: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Re: Has anything changed in the threading algorithms recently?
Hi, Joseph. On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:48:03 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Tuesday, June 11, 2002, 4:48 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: I've noticed the same thing. Separated msgs with overlapping references. Pls post your findings if you come up with anything. Me, too! Single threads split into numerous pieces The Bat! has never threaded especially well, since it uses only References, and there's no option to use References and Subjects together, as with some other clients. But it seems to be worse than ever. -- Keith ...The best defense is to stay out of range. _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bugs/Wishes: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Filter question
Hello, Chris. On Wed, 1 May 2002 17:50:22 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, May 01, 2002, 10:50 AM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: I have successfully filtered on this character set, and so far only gibberish messages have been put in the junk folder. I have not lost a single none Korean font message, yet. Once I have ascertained that nothing I want gets transferred to the junk folder I will set it up to delete. Even if it's not spam, I can't read it and am not interested in trying, so it works fine for me. For Korean, this should work very well. Certainly, this character set is not used for any other language, and it's pretty much the only character set used for Korean email. Unfortunately, I have to use other methods since I do want to receive some Korean messages Keith ...B.Gates : quality software :: R.McDonald : gourmet cuisine _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bugs/Wishes: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Writing and reading Japanese
Hello, Alastair. On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:40:27 + GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, February 27, 2002, 1:40 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: From what you say you can buy a third-party application which hooks into the Windows APIs so allows _any_ Windows application to accept such character sets ... true? Well, more or less. It works better with some applications than with others. If so, what's the point of writing (for example) a 'Japanese Bat!'? Rather than the TB! authors (of whom there are not many, something which some people here forget) running themselves ragged trying to support multiple languages, why not direct people to such applications? Several reasons: 1. As indicated above, it's only a partial solution. 2. The competition supports CJK WITHOUT the necessity of third-party software. Microsoft supports both display and input; Becky supports display (I'm not sure about input). 3. It's very expensive. I spent over $100 US to buy NJStar Communicator. And it's cheap compared to the competition. A few years ago, I bought TwinBridge's Korean Partner for $80 (1/2 price, but I had to go to Korea to get it at that price). It supported only Korean (no Chinese or Japanese), and when I upgraded to XP, it broke. So there goes another $100. If I used Outlook or OE, I would have saved not just the expense of The Bat!, but this $180 as well. That's an expensive email client. 4. Some people really do need it. See Yuki's earlier post that started this thread. I only occasionally need CJK capabilities, but she needs them all the time. Without that support, RIT Labs will lose a customer--and many more. As far as I'm concerned, The Bat! and Becky! are very similar products. A couple of years ago, when I was trying to decide between the two, I almost chose Becky because of its CJK support alone. The only reason I didn't was that I like the online community a lot better here than there. For many others who need CJK, the difference between $30 and $130 (or free and $130) will make for an easy decision. (The whole issue is particularly odd when I think that this approach, when anyone with language and typographical skills could write a supporting package for any language which hooked seamlessly into the OS, was solved by Apple in MacOS a good 10 years ago :) You make it sound easy ;-). -- Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...Half the lies they tell me aren't true. --Yogi Berra -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : https://bt.ritlabs.com/ BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Writing and reading Japanese
Hello, Jernej. On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:40:52 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, February 27, 2002, 2:40 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: Hello Alastair, 27. februar 2002, 22:39:36, you wrote: From what you say you can buy a third-party application which hooks AS into the Windows APIs so allows _any_ Windows application to accept AS such character sets ... true? This is not the problem. The problem is, that Windows 9x/ME don't have built-in Unicode/DBCS support, you must write it yourself if you wish to use it. The third-party apps will work with 9x/ME, but they're very expensive. -- Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...No good deed goes unpunished - Clare Booth Luce -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : https://bt.ritlabs.com/ BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Writing and reading Japanese
Hello, Anton. On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:17:11 +0300 GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, February 13, 2002, 12:17 AM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: That will be not-so-right to say, but I think it's very hard to manage Japaneese I/O in a program when there are no native Japanese developers in the team. Maybe this is a problem. I don't think it's necessary to be native Japanese, or even to speak the language. Do you think the developers speak all the languages The Bat! currently support? It's a matter of understanding the technology (e.g., Unicode); the results can be tested by beta testers who do know the languages. -- Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : https://bt.ritlabs.com/ BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Writing and reading Japanese
Hello, Boris. On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:39:19 -0600 GMT your local time, which was Wednesday, February 27, 2002, 12:39 PM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: After all, I think that problems with international support are not immediate now. Mail client should be *stable*, *fast* and *reliable* first, and we are still having problems with all of this. I just found 67 messages with word euro in it. Who does *really* need it? Just don't use it, if you can't. We in Russia stopped using one letter we were having problem with - that's it. I agree, the most immediate needs are for stability, speed, and reliability. The problem is that the emphasis has not been on these; it's been on a lot of new features, many of which seem to have been added at the whim of the developers. It's my feeling that multilingual support is at least as important as many of these. If proper attention were paid to these three key issues, they could be resolved and time then spent on what users really need. I like a lot of the new features as much as anybody, but many, many posters here have expressed frustration with the way the decisions often seem to be made. -- Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...What goes up has probably been doused with petrol. -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : https://bt.ritlabs.com/ BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: 1.54 Beta 33 - cannot open this message!
Hello, Mrten. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:03:37 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Tuesday, January 29, 2002, 8:03 AM -0700 GMT here, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, I do not know what is exactly wrong with the message i am (hopefully) replying to, but using both TheBat 1.53o and 1.54 beta 27 I am not able to open it! (preview mode). Double-clicking it gives an empty folder-view. View Source (F9) does work, that's how I was able to read it. I am also not able to reply or forward it. (I created a new message for this reply and copied the Message-ID). When trying to reply, all fields are empty, and trying to select an 'active account' does not work either (no entries there!). If an attempt is made to send, it result is an acccess violation. I think this is a bug, for this should not be happening. I can see a text/plain part in the message using the source view, that should be displayed normally. Yes, it's strange. The body of the message contains text, but it's text from the preceding message. -- Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...In case of fire, yell FIRE! -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: 1.48f (was: no subject)
Hello, Thomas. On Wednesday, December 20, 2000, 8:38:24 PM, you wrote: [snip] BC It was a message I cc'd to the list. Stefan sent out the original on BC the announcements list. I received neither! And since I am apparently not the only one, would you mind reposting Stefan's message here? Thanks. And that makes at least three of us I second the motion. -- Keith Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...We were unanimous - in fact everyone was unanimous. Using The Bat! 1.48d under Windows 98 4.90 Build 3000 on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB. -- -- View the TBBETA archive at http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBBETA, double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: %SingleRe
Hello, Thomas. On Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 5:35:57 AM, you wrote: Hello Michal, On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:56:05 +0200 (CEST) GMT (19/09/2000, 18:56 +0800 GMT), Michal Kosinski wrote: Hmmm. I've been using email for business for a couple of years, and I have never received any replies with a reply counter from anybody. MK Maybe their e-mail client doesn't have this feature? Right. Which popular email client apart from TB! numbers the replies by default? MK I was considering only outgoing mail from me (TB! user) to others (not MK always TB! users). BTW, I don't know which other e-mail programs use MK reply counter function? Outlook, Eudora, Pegasus? Outklook: No. Eudora: No. Netscape Mail: No. AK Mail: No. Pegasus: I don't know anybody who uses it. I used older versions of Pegasus and nver saw a reply counter. Similarly, I have never seen it with several other email clients that I have used. In about 8 years of using Internet email, I don't remember ever receiving a message with a counter unless it was generated by TB. There might have been a few, but I think that if any had generated a very long thread I would have started to notice. My first exposure to reply counters was when I started using TB and they started showing up in all my replies. One of my first questions, as with many other new users, was "How do I turn this *$#! 'feature' off?" -- Keith Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...Reduce Carbon Dioxide emmissions - STOP Breathing Using The Bat! 1.46c under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB. -- -- View the TBBETA archive at http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBBETA, double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: MAPI, what is it?
Hello, Tony. On Sunday, September 17, 2000, 3:01:54 AM, you wrote: Hello Thomas, Thank you very much for the reply. And also to Keith for his in depth explanation. You're certainly welcome. A reminder of what Thomas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed on: 17 September 2000 at 13:12:57 GMT +0800 [snip] TF Congratulations to your baby! :-) Thank you very much. It's not actually mine, I'm a foster parent and we took delivery of a 7 hour old baby last week straight from the factory. It may not be mine but it has the same detrimental effect on sleep patterns and intelligence levels. Congratulations are still in order. I've done the foster parent thing (but not at that age!) and it's every bit as challenging (even more so) as with your own children. Keith mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.46c under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB. -- -- View the TBBETA archive at http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBBETA, double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: MAPI, what is it?
Hello, Tony. On Sunday, September 17, 2000, 5:06:12 AM, you wrote: Hello Chris, A reminder of what Chris ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed on: 17 September 2000 at 11:01:34 GMT +0200 C Hm, AFAIK there's a registry value which is checked: C HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Clients\Mail\The C Bat!\DLLPath="%TBDir%\TBMAPI.dll" I'm getting more and more confused with this MAPI. Aren't we all? I have the above reg entry. I don't have MAPIstub anywhere. This appears to be a Windows Me issue. I have TBmapi.dll in TB folder. I have mapi32.dll in Windows system, it don't get renamed when I use the /installmapi switch. I also have eumapi.dll that came with Eudora (excuse the bad language) which is a lot bigger than either of the above. I assume eumapi.dll is in your Eudora directory, right? At the risk of being redundant (sorry if you already understood this): MAPI32.dll is installed by Exchange, Outlook, and various other MAPI server applications. The /installmapi switch does not rename the file. It copies tbmapi.dll over the top of it, BUT renames tbmapi.dll to mapi32.dll. Similarly, if you enable the MAPI server in Eudora, eumapi.dll is copied over the top of mapi32.dll, renaming it at the same time. The \windows\system directory must have mapi32.dll, WITH THAT NAME, for any MAPI client to send a MAPI message. Hope that made sense When I try it with Word97 I get an error in mapi32.dll.. I get the impression that once the /installmapi switch is used I shouldn't even have mapi32.dll as it is supposed to have been renamed/overwritten? See above. It's overwritten, not renamed. Oh, I almost forgot, I can't find Fixmapi.exe either. It's certainly not in Windows ME system directory. Again appears to be Windows Me. I have it in Windows 98. I'm assuming that you did already have MAPI32.dll before installing the TB version. If not, I doubt that TB will install fixmapi.exe. It also probably doesn't install mapistub.dll, so if TB was your first MAPI server to be installed, that might explain why you have neither fixmapi.exe nor mapistub.dll. If Eudora was your first MAPI server, this may also be true. 8. A mention was made of "Send to Mail Recipient MAPI" when right clicking in Explorer. I have never seen the word "MAPI" in this context. Is this also maybe OS dependent? Are those seeing this wording possibly using NT or 2000? (I'm using 98.) This is what I have been expecting to see having read about it in earlier postings. The absence of it is what lead me to believe I was doing something wrong and also what prompted my initial posting. I certainly can't find it in Windows Millennium. But we now know that you change the link to say whatever you want. It clearly varies depending on OS I think I may give MAPI a miss and stick to attachments if I need to send anything. Right now, that's certainly a more dependable method Keith mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.46c under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II 233 with 64 MB. -- -- View the TBBETA archive at http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBBETA, double-click HERE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
