[TruthTalk] thinking out loud
JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS. This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 06:28 Subject: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Just one time, please. Will you say back to me what YOU BELIEVE MY MEANING TO BE in what I've just said. Thereafter, tell me that you agree/disagree and, why? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 06:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS. This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 06:28 Subject: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/15/2005 8:39:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
You have turned the "flapping of the gums" into a vocation, Kevin. This is not completely true, however, if you still have that one tooth.
I suspect that Terry is a full-time Christian. I met your challenge and what did we get for that -- yet another challenge of someone else. You are a lazy Christian, Kevin, doing those things that so often do not count for much but take a considerable amount of time.nothing to be proud of.
You get no more tired of the senseless than do the rest of us.
jd
cd: Kevin is not a lazy Christian-I have seen his works and he is very active-It is wrong to call him lazy-Compared to Kevin and the brethren I am lazy but not them.
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NAW I am just sick of people that flap their gums.
When it comes down to it they are all about words NOT DEEDS!
It is a False Piety to saythat another should do such such when one doesNOTHING.
God's Work as you put it is NOT LIP SERVICE
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate..
They profess to be doing the WORK of God but when pressed they do not want to brag
Invariably when preaching in public, some christian comes up to me and says you are doing it wrong you are going to turn them off. (If I had a nickel for every time...)
I ask them How many people have you told about Jesus this week?
They want to change subjects, any idea why? Guess they want their reward.
Why would someone correct someone else about something they DO NOT DO?
Only reason could be, their conscience is bothering them.
They know it is RIGHT to witness to the LOST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read your post a couple of times. My comments appear to be appropriate.
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A rather simple task is to read the post instead of going off half cocked[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And what does yourlittle chuck and jive have to do with Terry's remarks to Dean? Not one single thing. Few on this site have a clue as to "ad hom." but your comments below are "ad hom." By definition, ad hom is any statement that does not go directly to thediscussion or remarks at hand. Another phrase for "ad hom" is "begging the question." "Truth" regarding "ad hom" has NOTHING TO DO WITH "AD HOM."This is just something you allmade up. If the response is an atack on any other issue but the one present, it is begging the question and is "ad hom."
You have this fantasy that you are busier doing the "Lord's work" than anyone else. A ridiculous assertion or two levels ("busier" and "Lord's work).. You are constantly demanding that those who offer a criticisim measure up to YOU..
Get a life and stay on subject --- or maybe you just cannot do this rather simple task.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You have got to be joking, Dean! There is no sin of omission? Is following Christ only about correcting others? How about giving a drink to a thirsty man?
AND how do you do such?
Ifind that most that speak like this are DOing nothing of consequence. They love in "WORD" but never in DEED!
It tends to be a device to soothe their conscience.
The bible speaks of it this way.
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Talk is cheap it does not cost a thing!
As a proponent of PURE RELIGION
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
What are you DOing? Tell us of your DEEDS.
Looking foward to your TESTIMONY! PTL!
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dean Moore wrote:
You have got to be joking, Dean! There is no sin of omission? Is following Christ only about correcting others? How about giving a drink to a thirsty man? How about passing by the wounded on the road to Damascus? How about the guy broke down alongside the interstate? Can you please God by telling the thirsty guy he needs to be saved and leave him in thirst. Can you hand a tract to the guy broke down miles from nowhere and go on? I would never do that and neither would you.Terry
cd: There is a difference in pointing out error and stoning someone to death.We can call sin ,sin and are told to do so in the bible. Abstaining from original sin keeps one from being a hypocrite as you are trying to make Judy appear. Adding sin of omission in this manner is clouding the true message of the Gospel-If we are living in the 11 commandments given to us then there is no sin of omission for to have love of the brethren we will be helping them-by correction their error(s) ,and giving to them for their needs-then
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Well Lance, the only alternative I see is to use the verses in Romans that you like and interpret them to fit your extra Biblical doctrine - then cut the rest out. Facts are "You must be born again" to inherit God's Kingdom. If you don't think that what I wrote is God's Word then you will need to read your Bible some more Lance. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:36:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS.This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
I was reading in Romans 12, the last
phrase of verse ten says "honor one another, preferring one another" The
world teaches
the exact opposite, but if we follow this guideline, we
willhavepeace and calm. Paul also writes
about the same
thing in Phillipians 2:3 So thanks Dean for your example - in doing
this.
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:49:11 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: Kevin is not a lazy Christian-I have seen his works and he is
very active-It is wrong to
call him lazy-Compared to Kevin and the brethren I am lazy but not
them.
`JD:
You have turned the "flapping of the gums" into a vocation,
Kevin. This is not completely true, however, if you still have that
one tooth.
I suspect that Terry is a full-time Christian. I met your
challenge and what did we get for that -- yet another challenge
of someone else. You are a lazy Christian, Kevin, doing those things that so
often do not count for much but take a considerable amount of
time.nothing to be proud of.
You get no more tired of the senseless than do the rest of us.
jd
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] NAW I am
just sick of people that flap their gums.
When it comes down to it they are all about words NOT DEEDS!
It is a False Piety to saythat another should do such
such when one doesNOTHING.
God's Work as you put it is NOT LIP SERVICE
They profess that they know God; but in
works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every
good work reprobate..
They profess to be doing the WORK of God but when pressed they do not
want to brag
Invariably when preaching in public, some christian comes up to me
and says you are doing it wrong you are going to turn them off. (If I had
a nickel for every time...)
I ask them How many people have you told about Jesus this week?
They want to change subjects, any idea why? Guess they want their
reward.
Why would someone correct someone else about something they DO NOT
DO?
Only reason could be, their conscience is bothering them.
They know it is RIGHT to witness to the LOST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read your post a couple of times. My comments appear
to be appropriate.
--
Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A rather simple task is to read the post instead of
going off half cocked[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And what does yourlittle chuck and jive have
to do with Terry's remarks to Dean? Not one single
thing. Few on this site have a clue as to "ad
hom." but your comments below are "ad hom." By
definition, ad hom is any statement that does not go directly to
thediscussion or remarks at hand. Another
phrase for "ad hom" is "begging the question."
"Truth" regarding "ad hom" has NOTHING TO DO WITH "AD
HOM."This is just something you allmade
up. If the response is an atack on any other issue
but the one present, it is begging the question and is "ad
hom."
You have this fantasy that you are busier doing the "Lord's
work" than anyone else. A ridiculous assertion or
two levels ("busier" and "Lord's work).. You
are constantly demanding that those who offer a criticisim measure
up to YOU..
Get a life and stay on subject --- or
maybe you just cannot do this rather simple task.
jd
--
Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You have got to be joking,
Dean! There is no sin of omission? Is following Christ
only about correcting others? How about giving a drink to a
thirsty man?
AND how do you do such?
Ifind that most that speak like this are DOing nothing
of consequence. They love in "WORD" but never in DEED!
It tends to be a device to soothe their conscience.
The bible speaks of it this way.
My little children, let us not
love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed
and in truth.
Talk is cheap it does not cost a
thing!
As a proponent of PURE RELIGION
Pure religion and undefiled
before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and
widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
OR JUDY...YOU WILL!! When that which you say that God means, through always and only selecting (YOUR choices)citations appropo to the issue at hand) and that which God means are univocal (of one meaning) then, each of us (yes, including me) will simply reply AMEN JUDY/GOD!l I, and I trust all other TT participants, would acknowledge that the above is SOMETIMES the case. You appear to believe that this is ALWAYS the case. IFF 'they' (John, Bill, "G'") read this post then, I should appreciate having them say this in their own words and, once and for all, clarify this issue so that we might move on. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 07:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud Well Lance, the only alternative I see is to use the verses in Romans that you like and interpret them to fit your extra Biblical doctrine - then cut the rest out. Facts are "You must be born again" to inherit God's Kingdom. If you don't think that what I wrote is God's Word then you will need to read your Bible some more Lance. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:36:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS.This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
You are saying that the scriptures I cite below reflect my apprehension of what God says rather than His and that if I claim to know the mind of God on this matter then I am claiming something that is above and beyond others on TT who you call my "fellow believers" Of course I disagree with you Lance because being born of the Spiritis not my idea; it is God's provision in the second Adam since before the foundation of the world. As for being above or beyond fellow believers? Not so. There is no division in Christ. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:44:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just one time, please. Will you say back to me what YOU BELIEVE MY MEANING TO BE in what I've just said. Thereafter, tell me that you agree/disagree and, why? From: Lance Muir This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS. This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Close but, no cigar, Are you claiming, through your citations pertaining to whatever issue is being discussed. to ALWAYS know the mind of God on EVERY matter? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 07:31 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud You are saying that the scriptures I cite below reflect my apprehension of what God says rather than His and that if I claim to know the mind of God on this matter then I am claiming something that is above and beyond others on TT who you call my "fellow believers" Of course I disagree with you Lance because being born of the Spiritis not my idea; it is God's provision in the second Adam since before the foundation of the world. As for being above or beyond fellow believers? Not so. There is no division in Christ. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:44:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just one time, please. Will you say back to me what YOU BELIEVE MY MEANING TO BE in what I've just said. Thereafter, tell me that you agree/disagree and, why? From: Lance Muir This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS. This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
It is sooo nice to see that the two of you are finally in agreement. Judy Taylor wrote: JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Hi Terry, where would you get that idea? On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:51:49 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is sooo nice to see that the two of you are finally in agreement.Judy Taylor wrote: JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
It is quite obvious, Judy. Never on TT before have two people been so compatible. Must be the Qwanza, xmas, winter break spirit. :) Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, where would you get that idea? On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:51:49 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is sooo nice to see that the two of you are finally in agreement. Judy Taylor wrote: JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: "...be ye reconciled to God." Of course the it is the Father who draws man. I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. Read Matt 7:11. Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Tell me what is going on in John 3:21. drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. Nothin you have quoted challenges anything I have written.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Judy -- regarding being born again: do you think this is something tht happens to a person from outside the person? Or, is new birth the experience we have when our person is aligned with the God within? jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR JUDY...YOU WILL!! When that which you say that God means, through always and only selecting (YOUR choices)citations appropo to the issue at hand) and that which God means are univocal (of one meaning) then, each of us (yes, including me) will simply reply AMEN JUDY/GOD!l I, and I trust all other TT participants, would acknowledge that the above is SOMETIMES the case. You appear to believe that this is ALWAYS the case. IFF 'they' (John, Bill, "G'") read this post then, I should appreciate having them say this in their own words and, once and for all, clarify this issue so that we might move on. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 07:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud Well Lance, the only alternative I see is to use the verses in Romans that you like and interpret them to fit your extra Biblical doctrine - then cut the rest out. Facts are "You must be born again" to inherit God's Kingdom. If you don't think that what I wrote is God's Word then you will need to read your Bible some more Lance. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:36:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS.This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Judy, if Terry is somewhat serious, this is my point as well. I see nothing in your post that challenges anything I said. When I write something like that, it is me thinking out loud, really !! I am reading scripture, looking up stuff, going over and over my post -- LETTING GOD WORK IN ME as I try to come to a knowledge of the faith that lies within. I don't write so that I can share -- I write for me, in these instances. Last night, for the first time, I came to a realization of just how connected the gospel is to the firstfruit of creation and everything that follows .without becoming a pantheist !! I would suggest to my friends that they do the same. Writing out of an apologetical concern can be a good thing. But writing and comparing notes of others who are still involved in the search for truth as revealed in the written word is, in my opinion, even better. We are not involved in such activity often enough. jd -- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is sooo nice to see that the two of you are finally in agreement.Judy Taylor wrote: JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:20:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD: And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. Yes. Our part is to repent and turn from our old conversation in this world or to ignore/reject the offer of eternal life. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: "...be ye reconciled to God." Of course the it is the Father who draws man. This only happens one way which is through Christ who is the only way to the Father. I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is dead to truth and the life and light of God. John says the condemnation is that men love darkness and refuse to come to the light. God is not working in these men. Read Matt 7:11. Why? This chapter has to do with asking, seeking, knocking and Vs.13 addresses entering through the narrow gate with the few that find it rather than travelling the broad road - Vs.15 warns about false prophets which are known by their spiritual fruit. Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Confession of sin and turning from same is normal christianity, where do "good works" come it, this is not a work it is a godly response to truth in the heart. Tell me what is going on in John 3:21. It's a statement about thosewho practice truth and come out into the light so that what they do may be plainly shown to be of God. drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. Nothin you have quoted challenges anything I have written. To say that EVERY MAN has God working in them is delusion JD; this is New Age thinking Ppl outside of Christ have the devil working in them.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:29:34 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy -- regarding being born again: do you think this is something tht happens to a person from outside the person? Or, is new birth the experience we have when our person is aligned with the God within? jd There is no God within until we are born of the Spirit JD - which is being born from above or born again. From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR JUDY...YOU WILL!! When that which you say that God means, through always and only selecting (YOUR choices)citations appropo to the issue at hand) and that which God means are univocal (of one meaning) then, each of us (yes, including me) will simply reply AMEN JUDY/GOD!l I, and I trust all other TT participants, would acknowledge that the above is SOMETIMES the case. You appear to believe that this is ALWAYS the case. IFF 'they' (John, Bill, "G'") read this post then, I should appreciate having them say this in their own words and, once and for all, clarify this issue so that we might move on. From: Judy Taylor Well Lance, the only alternative I see is to use the verses in Romans that you like and interpret them to fit your extra Biblical doctrine - then cut the rest out. Facts are "You must be born again" to inherit God's Kingdom. If you don't think that what I wrote is God's Word then you will need to read your Bible some more Lance. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:36:21 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS.This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:01 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, if Terry is somewhat serious, this is my point as well. I see nothing in your post that challenges anything I said. Big IF JD. I don't read Terri's comment in a positiveway, I think he is addressing something else. When I write something like that, it is me thinking out loud, really !! I am reading scripture, looking up stuff, going over and over my post -- LETTING GOD WORK IN ME as I try to come to a knowledge of the faith that lies within. I don't write so that I can share -- I write for me, in these instances. Oh! Then why do you send it to the TT List? Last night, for the first time, I came to a realization of just how connected the gospel is to the firstfruit of creation and everything that follows .without becoming a pantheist !! Are you calling Israel the firstfruit of Creation? I would suggest to my friends that they do the same. Writing out of an apologetical concern can be a good thing. But writing and comparing notes of others who are still involved in the search for truth as revealed in the written word is, in my opinion, even better. We are not involved in such activity often enough. jd -- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is sooo nice to see that the two of you are finally in agreement.Judy Taylor wrote: JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:20:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD: And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. Yes. Our part is to repent and turn from our old conversation in this world or to ignore/reject the offer of eternal life. Well, ok. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: "...be ye reconciled to God." Of course it is the Father who draws man. This only happens one way which is through Christ who is the only way to the Father. I think I agree with this. I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive. Yes He is. No man comes to the son except the Father draws him. God is concerned that all come to Christ. I see no limitations in Philip 2:12,13. Is this draw of God a farced event in the life of the person? No. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is dead to truth and the life and light of God. John says the condemnation is that men love darkness and refuse to come to the light. God is not working in these men. Actully, you do believe in the total depravity of man. Read Matt 7:11. Why? This chapter has to do with asking, seeking, knocking and Vs.13 addresses entering through the narrow gate with the few that find it rather than travelling the broad road - Vs.15 warns about false prophets which are known by their spiritual fruit. Did you miss the part that says "you being evil know how to give good gifts " ?? Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Confession of sin and turning from same is normal christianity, where do "good works" come it, this is not a work it is a godly response to truth in the heart. You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). Tell me what is going on in John 3:21. It's a statement about thosewho practice truth and come out into the light so that what they do may be plainly shown to be of God. drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. The fact of John 3:21 is that the works performed occur before we come to the light. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. Nothin you have quoted challenges anything I have written. To say that EVERY MAN has God working in them is delusion JD; this is New Age thinking Ppl outside of Christ have the devil working in them.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:20:23 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD: And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. Yes. Our part is to repent and turn from our old conversation in this world or to ignore/reject the offer of eternal life. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: "...be ye reconciled to God." Of course the it is the Father who draws man. This only happens one way which is through Christ who is the only way to the Father. I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is dead to truth and the life and light of God. John says the condemnation is that men love darkness and refuse to come to the light. God is not working in these men. Read Matt 7:11. Why? This chapter has to do with asking, seeking, knocking and Vs.13 addresses entering through the narrow gate with the few that find it rather than travelling the broad road - Vs.15 warns about false prophets which are known by their spiritual fruit. Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Confession of sin and turning from same is normal christianity, where do "good works" come it, this is not a work it is a godly response to truth in the heart. Tell me what is going on in John 3:21. It's a statement about thosewho practice truth and come out into the light so that what they do may be plainly shown to be of God. drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. Nothin you have quoted challenges anything I have written. To say that EVERY MAN has God working in them is delusion JD; this is New Age thinking Ppl outside of Christ have the devil working in them.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:01 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, if Terry is somewhat serious, this is my point as well. I see nothing in your post that challenges anything I said. Big IF JD. I don't read Terri's comment in a positiveway, I think he is addressing something else. Terry !!! What say ye?? When I write something like that, it is me thinking out loud, really !! I am reading scripture, looking up stuff, going over and over my post -- LETTING GOD WORK IN ME as I try to come to a knowledge of the faith that lies within. I don't write so that I can share -- I write for me, in these instances. Oh! Then why do you send it to the TT List? Sometimes, I really don't know. I do know that your only reason is to correct and judge. Last night, for the first time, I came to a realization of just how connected the gospel is to the firstfruit of creation and everything that follows .without becoming a pantheist !! Are you calling Israel the firstfruit of Creation? No. I was referring to "let there be light." Something evil in that ?? I would suggest to my friends that they do the same. Writing out of an apologetical concern can be a good thing. But writing and comparing notes of others who are still involved in the search for truth as revealed in the written word is, in my opinion, even better. We are not involved in such activity often enough. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
whileJC the shepard-kinginformsus'my sheep hear my voice' the bible informs of him, informsthe sheep going only to the Father, goingonly through him your idea of one way? no such thing: arrogantly misrepresenting JC,youpresenttwo antithetical 'ways', below--like oil and water, another cultural power play;hyper-palsentering the holy of holies likethey got the only key to the kingdomjusttogleefullyinstructGod himselfto changethe locks and bar the doors (for them)--its dualism, not biblicism On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:28:48 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || only come to Christ one way..by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it.
Re: ***Moderator Comment** Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blainerb: There are none so blind as he who will not see. Ad libbing, flapping the gums, rationalizing the truth, gainsaying, etc., sets up a snow storm intended to do but one thing--deceive.Whenthat fails, one resorts to being unreasonable--it always comes down to stubborn, obstinate refusal to be reasonable. So goes it on TT, and Kevin? Whew! Is this the epitome of this tactic or what? In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:23:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have turned the "flapping of the gums" into a vocation, Kevin. This is not completely true, however, if you still have that one tooth. I suspect that Terry is a full-time Christian. I met your challenge and what did we get for that -- yet another challenge of someone else. You are a lazy Christian, Kevin, doing those things that so often do not count for much but take a considerable amount of time.nothing to be proud of. You get no more tired of the senseless than do the rest of us. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
Blainerb: Kevin, you quoted the passage in the DC where the doctrine of the garden is taught. Now you are asking where it was taught? It all began in the garden. He suffered there , "even unto death." Did you miss that part or something? In a message dated 12/15/2005 5:45:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Holy Bible is the authority. The bible does not teach any such thing As a Matter of fact where does the BoM or DC teach such? In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:47:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus Christ did not ATONE for our sins by suffering in the Garden Thanks Kevin, we were waiting for the final word from your Royal Highness . . . Now we know the truth because you said it--What greater authority can we have, than Kevin of TT? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Don't have any idea why this thing is changing colors on me. Terry Any way.Let me suggest that at some point in everyone's life, God reveals Himself and offers salvation to every individual. I say that because God is not willing that any be lost, and if it is not His will for any to be lost, then all must have at some point, the opportunity to be saved. Therefore, if God is not at work in us now, He either has been, or will be. So I somewhat agree with John's statement. God, however, does not strive with men forever. At some point, He stamps the dust off His feet and moves on. Some are then given over to a reprobate mind and are foreverlost. Others will have things enter their lives that remind them that the Father's love is such that He will welcome them home at any time, and they will then repent, so in some respect I agree with Judy, that God is not continually working in the life of everyone. Peace on earth, or at least on TT? Terry I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive.
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
Blainerb: Here's your quote, Kevin. This is where the doctrine of the garden is taught. But it is also taught in the Bible. Luke 22:41-44; Mark 14:33-36; Matt 26: 37-39 In a message dated 12/15/2005 5:44:10 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DC 19:15-19 Therefore I command you to repent,”repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore,”how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit”and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink.” Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
Re: ***Moderator Comment** Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blaine, please don't stir up the pot. You contribute nothing with your comments. Also, you say below, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:, but you have not included anything I wrote! You must have removed the part I wrote without removing the attribution. I doubt it was intentional, but please be careful to properly attribute comments to the original authors. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: ***Moderator Comment** Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:50:03 EST Blainerb: There are none so blind as he who will not see. Ad libbing, flapping the gums, rationalizing the truth, gainsaying, etc., sets up a snow storm intended to do but one thing--deceive. When that fails, one resorts to being unreasonable--it always comes down to stubborn, obstinate refusal to be reasonable. So goes it on TT, and Kevin? Whew! Is this the epitome of this tactic or what? In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:23:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have turned the flapping of the gums into a vocation, Kevin. This is not completely true, however, if you still have that one tooth. I suspect that Terry is a full-time Christian. I met your challenge and what did we get for that -- yet another challenge of someone else. You are a lazy Christian, Kevin, doing those things that so often do not count for much but take a considerable amount of time.nothing to be proud of. You get no more tired of the senseless than do the rest of us. jd -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] URL on beat up star with 666 on it
Kevin, we still need a URL on the star with 666--you were obviously suggesting it is from a Mormon building---I have not been able to find it in any way associated with any building built or owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Blainerb
Re: ***Moderator Comment** Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:26:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, please don't stir up the pot. You contribute nothing with your comments. Also, you say below, "[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:", but you have not included anything I wrote! You must have removed the part I wrote without removing the attribution. I doubt it was intentional, but please be careful to properly attribute comments to the original authors.Perry This happens to me all the time, especially on Kevin's posts. But you are right, I did not even notice it until you pointed it out. Sorry. Blainerb From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: ***Moderator Comment** Re: [TruthTalk] CrossDate: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:50:03 ESTBlainerb: There are none so blind as he who will not see. Ad libbing,flapping the gums, rationalizing the truth, gainsaying, etc., sets up a snowstorm intended to do but one thing--deceive. When that fails, one resorts tobeing unreasonable--it always comes down to stubborn, obstinate refusal to bereasonable. So goes it on TT, and Kevin? Whew! Is this the epitome ofthis tactic or what?
[TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE CROSS QUESTIONS
IS FORTHCOMING!!?? Y'all are pleased to engage on minutiae but on the big issues y'all 'take a pass'? WHY? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 14:37 Subject: [TruthTalk] URL on beat up star with 666 on it Kevin, we still need a URL on the star with 666--you were obviously suggesting it is from a Mormon building---I have not been able to find it in any way associated with any building built or owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Blainerb
[TruthTalk] Fwd: Alpha Trooper Speaks Out
In a message dated 12/16/2005 10:28:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Home from Iraq--temporarily One of Minnesota's Finest: Minnesota's LTC Joe Repya volunteered to return to active duty for service in Iraq at age 59. Joe's previous service includes command of a rifle platoon in Vietnam and flying helicopters in the first Gulf War. Joe is a classic citizen patriot and activist. He first came to public attention in March 2003 when, disturbed by the anti-war campaign mounted by Minnesota liberals, he arranged for the production of lawn signs saying "Liberate Iraq -- Support Our Troops." His effort garnered a lot of publicity, and Joe eventually distributed 30,000 signs. - Today he writes: Two weeks ago, as I was starting my sixth month of duty in Iraq, I was forced to return to the USA for surgery for an injury I sustained prior to my deployment. With luck, I'll return to Iraq in January to finish my tour. I left Baghdad and a war that has every indication that we are winning, to return to a demoralized country much like the one I returned to in 1971 after my tour in Vietnam. Maybe it's because I'll turn 60 years old in just four months, but I'm tired: I'm tired of spineless politicians, both Democrat and Republican who lack the courage, fortitude, and character to see these difficult tasks through. I'm tired of the hypocrisy of politicians who want to rewrite history when the going gets tough. I'm tired of the disingenuous clamor from those that claim they "Support the Troops" by wanting them to "Cut and Run" before victory is achieved. I'm tired of a mainstream media that can only focus on car bombs and casualty reports because they are too afraid to leave the safety of their hotels to report on the courage and success our brave men and women are having on the battlefield. I'm tired that so many American's think you can rebuild a dictatorship into a democracy over night. I'm tired that so many ignore the bravery of the Iraqi people to go to the voting booth and freely elect a Constitution and soon a permanent Parliament. I'm tired of the so called "Elite Left" that prolongs this war by giving aid and comfort to our enemy, just as they did during the Vietnam War. I'm tired of anti-war protesters showing up at the funerals of our fallen in a just and noble cause, only to be cruelly tormented on the funeral day by cowardly protesters is beyond shameful. I'm tired that my generation, the Baby Boom - Vietnam generation, who have such a weak backbone that they can't stomach seeing the difficult tasks through to victory. I'm tired that some are more concerned about the treatment of captives then they are the slaughter and beheading of our citizens and allies. I'm tired that when we find mass graves it is seldom reported by the press, but mistreat a prisoner and it is front page news. Mostly, I'm tired that the people of this great nation didn't learn from history that there is no substitute for Victory. Sincerely, Joe Repya Lieutenant Colonel U. S. Army 101st Airborne Division ---BeginMessage--- Home from Iraq--temporarily One of Minnesota's Finest: Minnesota's LTC Joe Repya volunteered to return to active duty for service in Iraq at age 59. Joe's previous service includes command of a rifle platoon in Vietnam and flying helicopters in the first Gulf War. Joe is a classic citizen patriot and activist. He first came to public attention in March 2003 when, disturbed by the anti-war campaign mounted by Minnesota liberals, he arranged for the production of lawn signs saying "Liberate Iraq -- Support Our Troops." His effort garnered a lot of publicity, and Joe eventually distributed 30,000 signs. - Today he writes: Two weeks ago, as I was starting my sixth month of duty in Iraq, I was forced to return to the USA for surgery for an injury I sustained prior to my deployment. With luck, I'll return to Iraq in January to finish my tour. I left Baghdad and a war that has every indication that we are winning, to return to a demoralized country much like the one I returned to in 1971 after my tour in Vietnam. Maybe it's because I'll turn 60 years old in just four months, but I'm tired: I'm tired of spineless politicians, both Democrat and Republican who lack the courage, fortitude, and character to see these difficult tasks through. I'm tired of the hypocrisy of politicians who want to rewrite history when the going gets tough. I'm tired of the disingenuous clamor from those that claim they "Support the Troops" by wanting them to "Cut and Run" before victory is achieved. I'm tired of a mainstream media that can only focus on car bombs and casualty reports because they are too afraid to
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:45:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IS FORTHCOMING!!?? Y'all are pleased to engage on minutiae but on the big issues y'all 'take a pass'? WHY? Blainerb: I consider a post that suggests Mormons adhere to Satanism to be a "big issue." Are you suggesting Kevin be allowed to "take a pass" on this issue? That suggests to me he has no URL tying the photo to LDS buildings, and wants to be let off the hook. If he does have such, I am interested in seeing the source, whether it be valid, or just another anti-Mormon potshot at the LDS Church.
Re: [TruthTalk] Offence given offence taken - MORMONS??
In a message dated 12/15/2005 4:38:15 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lance Muir wrote: Perry, Dean, Kevin et al certainly GIVE offence vis a vis Mormonism. Do you, the Mormon contingent on TT, take offence at what's said by them? Apparently DaveH is not the only one to seethe moderator-bias on TT. Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] MORMONS ON TT
In a message dated 12/14/2005 5:41:38 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why don't the moderator(s) (plural?) set up some sort of a code of conduct with respect to our mutual engagement? IMO, there exists a double standard with respect to them and us. We, or so it would appear, are entitled to SLANDER THEM (Mormons being the 'bad' guys) but, they are not able to SLANDER US!!(Christians being the 'good guys')What's the deal with that. Even the moderator occasionally engages in 'conduct unbecoming'. As I said, apparently this double standard is not being done in a corner--I consider Lance to be among the more reasonable people on TT--Maybe he should become the moderator??? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
The last private e-mail I got from Dave was when I was off-Forum. I have sent him no such e-mails since, either. Kevin is, as usual, just seeing his own beam in our eyes. :) Blainerb In a message dated 12/14/2005 5:24:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: It is my opinion that mormons are big crybabies-and I have no idea what you are refering to-as you accuse others of the very thing you yourself are doing. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/14/2005 2:03:00 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** fact DAVEH: ??? To what fact are you referring, Kevin? I remember Dean accidentally publicly posting an email about John (as I remember) that he apparently thought he sent to you under the table, but Blaine and I haven't done such. While I've copied many of the pertinent posts to Blaine during the period he was off-Forum, we don't exchange strategies with each other, and seldom even send off-forum comments to each other. So...why would you imply it is a fact that we do some things thru private emails "under the table, when the evidence instead suggests that it is you and Dean who use such tactics? Was it Dean who suggested that if a person is critical of another's nature, it might be that the accuser is hiding something? NawI don't think he said anything like that, as it might have made him feel guilty. nbsp; ;-) Kevin Deegan wrote: infact it is the LDS folk who have made comments and done some things thru private emails "under the table"
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
Forgiveness is available because of the atoning sacrifice of the Great Jehovah. Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the sins of all who ever had or ever would repent. Forgiveness is available because "God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance." (Alma 7:13.) (The Messiah Series, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1978-82) Encyclopedia of Mormonism ... For Latter-day Saints, Gethsemane was the scene of Jesus' greatest agony, even surpassing that which he suffered on the cross, an understanding supported by Mark's description of Jesus' experience (Mark 14:33-39). ... The evidence for Jesus' extreme agony in Gethsemane is buttressed by a prophecy in the Book of Mormon and a statement by the resurrected Savior recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. About 125 B.C., a Book of Mormon king, Benjamin, recounted in an important address a prophecy of the coming messiah spoken to him by an angel during the previous night. Concerning the Messiah's mortal experience, the angel declared that "he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people" (Mosiah 3:7). The Doctrine and Covenants gives the following poignant words of the resurrected Jesus: "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (DC 19:16, 18). Modern LDS leaders have emphasized that Jesus' most challenging experience came in Gethsemane. Speaking in a general conference of the Church in 1982, Marion G. Romney, a member of the First Presidency, observed that Jesus suffered "the pains of all men, which he did, principally, in Gethsemane, the scene of his great agony" (Ensign 12 [May 1982]:6). Church President Ezra Taft Benson wrote that "it was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him" (Benson, p. 7). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1992, p. 542) This is in direct contradiction to the bible which says Romans 5:10 when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son.Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col. 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 1 Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: Kevin, you quoted the passage in the DC where the doctrine of the garden is taught. Now you are asking where it was taught? It all began in the garden. He suffered there , "even unto death." Did you miss that part or something? In a message dated 12/15/2005 5:45:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The Holy Bible is the authority. The bible does not teach any such thingAs a Matter of fact where does the BoM or DC teach such? In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:47:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus Christ did not ATONE for our sins by suffering in the GardenThanks Kevin, we were waiting for the final word from your Royal Highness . . . Now we know the truth because you said it--What greater authority can we have, than Kevin of TT?Blainerb __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] URL on beat up star with 666 on it
isn't it just to the left of this? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, we still need a URL on the star with 666--you were obviously suggesting it is from a Mormon building---I have not been able to find it in any way associated with any building built or owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Blainerb __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
Let me take a 'shot' at it (the SATANISM THINGY) If a group adheres to a theology wherein 1. their god was a man who became a god who begat children (spiritually) who subsequently inhabited that god's planet and rebelled against their god partly through the temptation of one of their god's sons (lucifer) so that one of their god's other sons (jesus) had to be born through a union of their god and one of the people on that god's planet (mary)so as to redeem the 'rebelled ones' THEN I WOULD SAY THAT THERE JUST MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO THIS SATANISM THINGY" IMO OF COURSE!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 14:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE "... In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:45:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IS FORTHCOMING!!?? Y'all are pleased to engage on minutiae but on the big issues y'all 'take a pass'? WHY? Blainerb: I consider a post that suggests Mormons adhere to Satanism to be a "big issue." Are you suggesting Kevin be allowed to "take a pass" on this issue? That suggests to me he has no URL tying the photo to LDS buildings, and wants to be let off the hook. If he does have such, I am interested in seeing the source, whether it be valid, or just another anti-Mormon potshot at the LDS Church.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blainerb: It is common knowledge that the morning star is Venus. Thus it is an obvious symbol of Jesus Christ, as it represents the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord as it alternates between shining as the evening star and the morning star. As either, it is the brightest star in the heavens. InRev. 22:16 Jesus even calls himself "the Bright and Morning Star. Likewise, the North Star, never failing to give us a constantbearing on direction to follow, is a symbol of Jesus Christ and his gospel, which if adhered to, can lead to salvation, or, in other words, a "safe harbor."I see nothing in these assertions that would warrant Dean's scornful com- ments below. :In a message dated 12/13/2005 7:13:22 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Except it is not Biblical. (Not that you would care.) iz Blainerb: Revelation 2:28 "and I will give him the morning star . . . (the morning star here symbolizes the first resurrection from the dead--those who come forth in the morning of the first resurrection . . .) Revelation 22:16 ""I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." cd (Dean) : If you used these stars to remember Christ why don't you live by his words who told us to remember the cross?Add these to you collection of stars. Amos 5:26 But you have borne the tabernacle of your Molock and Chium your image, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.27 Therefore I will cause you to go into captivity... Isaiah 47;13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from the things that shall come upon thee.14 Behold they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them, they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame:... And just think Dave say there is no fire in hell-Mormons have it backwards God does not like people that look to stars and Blain thinks we should all throw our crosses away and get stars-but coming from one that said Smith should have killed the preacher who told him what the bible said instead of merely beating him across the yard-I would expect such as this.
Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath
In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:12:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please tell us your view of resting on the Saturday Sabbath. I hesitate to bring up the subject because of such stinking attitudes from some on TT. iz Blainerb: I think the Saturday Sabbath is great, more power to anyone who keeps a Sabbath of any kind, providing they sincerely believe they are in the right. The key here is that we are consistent and honorable in what we do--that we maintain our integrity. As one man put it, "Whatsoever thou do est, O man, play the part well." But Saturday Sabbath obviously is a hold-over from the Law of Moses, so as such it is no longer binding--It was, further, the practice of early Christians to honor the Lord's Day, or the first day of the week, Sunday, in deference to the Lord's overcoming the final enemy of mankind, death.
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
Sinceyou have been asked to stop stirring the pot And some subjects have been identified as OFF LIMITS I have declined to comment But since you guys can not leave it aloneI was refering to your PRIVATE email off list to a member of this list stating you were "waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . ."[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The last private e-mail I got from Dave was when I was off-Forum. I have sent him no such e-mails since, either. Kevin is, as usual, just seeing his own beam in our eyes. :) BlainerbIn a message dated 12/14/2005 5:24:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: It is my opinion that mormons are big crybabies-and I have no idea what you are refering to-as you accuse others of the very thing you yourself are doing. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/14/2005 2:03:00 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** fact DAVEH: ??? To what fact are you referring, Kevin? I remember Dean accidentally publicly posting an email about John (as I remember) that he apparently thought he sent to you under the table, but Blaine and I haven't done such. While I've copied many of the pertinent posts to Blaine during the period he was off-Forum, we don't exchange strategies with each other, and seldom even send off-forum comments to each other. So...why would you imply it is a fact that we do some things thru private emails "under the table, when the evidence instead suggests that it is you and Dean who use such tactics? Was it Dean who suggested that if a person is critical of another's nature, it might be that the accuser is hiding something? NawI don't think he said anything like that, as it might have made him feel guilty. nbsp; ;-) Kevin Deegan wrote: infact it is the LDS folk who have made comments and done some things thru private emails "under the table" __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Offence given offence taken - MORMONS??
Blaine, Please try to separate posts I make that are from my own personal viewpoint, and statements I make as moderator. You seem to want to mix the two. If you want to claim that as the moderator I am biased, then please refer only to items I post as the moderator. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Offence given offence taken - MORMONS?? Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:10:28 EST In a message dated 12/15/2005 4:38:15 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lance Muir wrote: Perry, Dean, Kevin et al certainly GIVE offence vis a vis Mormonism. Do you, the Mormon contingent on TT, take offence at what's said by them? Apparently DaveH is not the only one to see the moderator-bias on TT. Blainerb -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] MORMONS ON TT
Blaine, if you find unbecoming behavior when I have been responding as the moderator, point it out. However, when not posting as a moderator, I reserve the right to engage in what Lance might consider conduct unbecoming (the same rights as any other TT'r). If you think that the moderator should not be allowed to post personally, then talk to the list owner and ask him to add that rule. BTW, the moderator position is always open...just inquire of the list owner. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] MORMONS ON TT Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:18:07 EST In a message dated 12/14/2005 5:41:38 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why don't the moderator(s) (plural?) set up some sort of a code of conduct with respect to our mutual engagement? IMO, there exists a double standard with respect to them and us. We, or so it would appear, are entitled to SLANDER THEM (Mormons being the 'bad' guys) but, they are not able to SLANDER US!!(Christians being the 'good guys') What's the deal with that. Even the moderator occasionally engages in 'conduct unbecoming'. As I said, apparently this double standard is not being done in a corner--I consider Lance to be among the more reasonable people on TT--Maybe he should become the moderator??? Blainerb -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/14/2005 5:00:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: The why don't Mormons live by Jesus's words instead of Smith's words. Blainerb: . Smith lived and died for his testimony of Jesus Christ, whom he saw and spoke with on several occasions. Smith was His prophet, just as Moses was his prophet.There are exciting parallels between the two, in fact. If JS ever spoke anything contrary to the mind and will of the Lord, he spoke of himself. Being a man, having the weaknesses of a man, he may have done that on occasion. But that did not mean he was not a prophet who revealed the mind and will of Jesus Christ to man in these last days. Use the Holy Spirit, and the spirit of charity to be your guide in discerning the difference . . .
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
I looked, but did not see anything denigrating or mocking Christians in either site, Dean? Could you quote what you are getting at? Blainerb In a message dated 12/14/2005 4:59:53 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.hillcumorah.org/Pageant/ http://www.mormonmiracle.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: times and dates??? -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Mormon pageant in NY is for Gentile consumption and is Squeaky clea, everything is veiled. BUT go to Manti UT and see a pageant where they MOCK Christians, cause it is for Mormon consumption
Re: [TruthTalk] MORMONS ON TT
OK, I see your point. I sometimes feel that way about being a teacher. Others may do what they wish, but teachers are expected to be perfect, right? I was in a supermarket one day, and a little girl from the school Itaught in told her mom she had just seen me buying stuff--"playing human," as she put it. Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 2:10:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, if you find unbecoming behavior when I have been responding as the moderator, point it out. However, when not posting as a moderator, I reserve the right to engage in what Lance might consider "conduct unbecoming" (the same rights as any other TT'r).If you think that the moderator should not be allowed to post personally, then talk to the list owner and ask him to add that rule.BTW, the moderator position is always open...just inquire of the list owner.Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
In a message dated 12/16/2005 2:03:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sinceyou have been asked to stop stirring the pot And some subjects have been identified as OFF LIMITS I have declined to comment But since you guys can not leave it alone I was refering to your PRIVATE email off list to a member of this list stating you were "waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . ." First of all, I don't recall writing to anyone in private. If I did, it may have been becauseI had not noticed it was private. Who was it that got the letter in private, Kevin? Are you the one? It must have been you, or Dean--both of you have brought this up--and if it was private why did you post it contrary to the rules?. Secondly, I vaguely remember making that comment, but I don't recall the context in whichI made it. Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
You are entitled to your opinion, Lance, however, I do not see that such Mormon beliefs as you have outlined detract from traditional Christianity--they do go beyond it, but I see no reason this should be an arrow in the side of Christians who are trying to live Christianity as they understand it.I see nothing unhallowed in the God-was-a-man-who-became-perfect beliefs of the Mormon Church--in fact, it seems to be quite a lofty idea, aimed at improving one's motivationto become perfect and more god-like. As Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Do you not intend to keep this commandment, Lance? Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:41:50 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let me take a 'shot' at it (the SATANISM THINGY) If a group adheres to a theology wherein 1. their god was a man who became a god who begat children (spiritually) who subsequently inhabited that god's planet and rebelled against their god partly through the temptation of one of their god's sons (lucifer) so that one of their god's other sons (jesus) had to be born through a union of their god and one of the people on that god's planet (mary)so as to redeem the 'rebelled ones' THEN I WOULD SAY THAT THERE JUST MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO THIS SATANISM THINGY" IMO OF COURSE!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 14:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE "... In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:45:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IS FORTHCOMING!!?? Y'all are pleased to engage on minutiae but on the big issues y'all 'take a pass'? WHY? Blainerb: I consider a post that suggests Mormons adhere to Satanism to be a "big issue." Are you suggesting Kevin be allowed to "take a pass" on this issue? That suggests to me he has no URL tying the photo to LDS buildings, and wants to be let off the hook. If he does have such, I am interested in seeing the source, whether it be valid, or just another anti-Mormon potshot at the LDS Church.
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
Were you or were you not attempting to suggest Mormons believed in/practiced Satanism by posting that photo of the 5-sided star with 666 embedded in it, along with other valid photos of stars on Mormon buildings? Just answer "yes" or "no." Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:37:07 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Go back and reread the posts I did not say Mormons are SatanistsI asked a simple question "why do you have satanic symbols on your building?" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: I consider a post that suggests Mormons adhere to Satanism to be a "big issue." Are you suggesting Kevin be allowed to "take a pass" on this issue? That suggests to me he has no URL tying the photo to LDS buildings, and wants to be let off the hook. If he does have such, I am interested in seeing the source, whether it be valid, or just another anti-Mormon potshot at the LDS Church.
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:37:07 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Go back and reread the posts I did not say Mormons are SatanistsI asked a simple question "why do you have satanic symbols on your building?" Blainerb: The answer is and always has been, we do not have Satanist symbols on our buildings. If they appear to be such, then they are only such in the eye of the beholder. They were never intended to be Satanist symbols, but the opposite--symbols of Jesus Christ, of heaven, etc. This, of course, led to a discussion on why we do not have crosses, as you will remember. And then everyone got all upset because we had stars, not crosses, on our buildings. Now a lot of people are mad at us because, as they say at least, we "hate crosses" which we actually do not. Hmmm, we have been through a lot together, huh Kevin? It gets almost humorous, doesn't it?
Re: [TruthTalk] URL on beat up star with 666 on it
I guess, it might have been? So? But it was also with photos of stars on the Nauvoo and SL temples. So, which were you saying it was associated with? Severalposted questions asking if it was actually in a Mormon temple, as if it was very critical. If it was not in or on a Mormon building, please indicate such, OK? Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:33:30 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: isn't it just to the left of this? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, we still need a URL on the star with 666--you were obviously suggesting it is from a Mormon building---I have not been able to find it in any way associated with any building built or owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
Hmm, good points, Kevin, but I doubt there is really a discrepancy or contradiction, otherwise how are you going to explain the agony of Gethsemene? What he suffered on the cross was more physical, which lead to his death--but there obviously was the agony of Gethsemene, wherein he suffered for the sins of mankind, to such an extent as to come justshort of dying. I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually, unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death was brought into the world. That would make sense to me--but let's face it, the entire matter of his being able to reconcile man with God after the fall of Adam which brought sin and death into the world was a great miracle. I am not sure any man fully comprehends it. We see in part through the glass darkly now, but someday we will see more clearly, hopefully. In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:29:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Forgiveness is available because of the atoning sacrifice of the Great Jehovah. Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the sins of all who ever had or ever would repent. Forgiveness is available because "God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance." (Alma 7:13.) (The Messiah Series, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1978-82) Encyclopedia of Mormonism ... For Latter-day Saints, Gethsemane was the scene of Jesus' greatest agony, even surpassing that which he suffered on the cross, an understanding supported by Mark's description of Jesus' experience (Mark 14:33-39). ... The evidence for Jesus' extreme agony in Gethsemane is buttressed by a prophecy in the Book of Mormon and a statement by the resurrected Savior recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. About 125 B.C., a Book of Mormon king, Benjamin, recounted in an important address a prophecy of the coming messiah spoken to him by an angel during the previous night. Concerning the Messiah's mortal experience, the angel declared that "he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people" (Mosiah 3:7). The Doctrine and Covenants gives the following poignant words of the resurrected Jesus: "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; …which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (DC 19:16, 18). Modern LDS leaders have emphasized that Jesus' most challenging experience came in Gethsemane. Speaking in a general conference of the Church in 1982, Marion G. Romney, a member of the First Presidency, observed that Jesus suffered "the pains of all men, which he did, principally, in Gethsemane, the scene of his great agony" (Ensign 12 [May 1982]:6). Church President Ezra Taft Benson wrote that "it was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him" (Benson, p. 7). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1992, p. 542) This is in direct contradiction to the bible which says Romans 5:10 when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col. 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 1 Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: Kevin, you quoted the passage in the DC where the doctrine of the garden is taught. Now you are asking where it was taught? It all began in the garden. He suffered there , "even unto death." Did you miss that part or something? In a message dated 12/15/2005 5:45:54 P.M.
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 5:24:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** In a message dated 12/16/2005 2:03:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sinceyou have been asked to stop stirring the pot And some subjects have been identified as OFF LIMITS I have declined to comment But since you guys can not leave it alone I was refering to your PRIVATE email off list to a member of this list stating you were "waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . ." First of all, I don't recall writing to anyone in private. If I did, it may have been becauseI had not noticed it was private. Who was it that got the letter in private, Kevin? Are you the one? It must have been you, or Dean--both of you have brought this up--and if it was private why did you post it contrary to the rules?. cd: I have no idea what you are talking about Blain? Leave me out of it. This "it must have been ...Dean" is making an accusation of someone on what might have happened doesn't cut it Blain-at least be fair or am I asking to much from a Mormon? Secondly, I vaguely remember making that comment, but I don't recall the context in whichI made it. Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Neither is the Devil lazy--being full of "works" does not always tell us much. :) Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 5:26:39 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:49:11 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Kevin is not a lazy Christian-I have seen his works and he is very active-It is wrong to call him lazy-Compared to Kevin and the brethren I am lazy but not them.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:03:43 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD: And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Born of the Spirit Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. Yes. Our part is to repent and turn from our old conversation in this world or to ignore/reject the offer of eternal life. Well, ok. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: " be ye reconciled to God." Of course it is the Father who draws man. This only happens one way which is through Christ who is the only way to the Father. I think I agree with this. I hope you do because it is Jesus who said "I am the Way, the Truth the Life, no man comes to the Father BUT by Me" (John 14:6) I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive.(John 14:17) Yes He is. No man comes to the son except the Father draws him. God is concerned that all come to Christ. I see no limitations in Philip 2:12,13. Is this draw of God a farced event in the life of the person? No. Don't you believe Ephesians 2:1, 2? You can't have God and the spirit of this world working in you at the same time. Double minded ppl receive nothing from God... The ppl Paul writes to in Philip 2:12,13 are believers in the church at Philippi. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is dead to truth and the life and light of God. John says the condemnation is that men love darkness and refuse to come to the light. God is not working in these men. Actully, you do believe in the total depravity of man. So now you are not only going to tell me what you believe JD - you are also going to tell me what I believe also?? Read Matt 7:11. Why? This chapter has to do with asking, seeking, knocking and Vs.13 addresses entering through the narrow gate with the few that find it rather than travelling the broad road - Vs.15 warns about false prophets which are known by their spiritual fruit. Did you miss the part that says "you being evil know how to give good gifts " ?? No, I saw that part but the ones He gives the good gifts to are those who ask He does not just pour spiritual gifts all over the disinterested even if it does rain on both just and unjust. The temporal blessings are just that. Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Confession of sin and turning from same is normal christianity, where do "good works" come it, this is not a work it is a godly response to truth in the heart. You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit but these people are already born again believers. This does not prove the unbelieve has God working in him or anything like that.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
I'm not talking about any such nonsense G. - The dualism is all in your own head along with all the other isms. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:00:45 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whileJC the shepard-kinginformsus'my sheep hear my voice' the bible informs of him, informsthe sheep going only to the Father, goingonly through him your idea of one way? no such thing: arrogantly misrepresenting JC,youpresenttwo antithetical 'ways', below--like oil and water, another cultural power play;hyper-palsentering the holy of holies likethey got the only key to the kingdomjusttogleefullyinstructGod himselfto changethe locks and bar the doors (for them)--its dualism, not biblicism On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:28:48 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || only come to Christ one way..by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it.
Re: [TruthTalk] Offence given offence taken - MORMONS??
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 3:10:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Offence given offence taken - MORMONS?? In a message dated 12/15/2005 4:38:15 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lance Muir wrote: Perry, Dean, Kevin et al certainly GIVE offence vis a vis Mormonism. Do you, the Mormon contingent on TT, take offence at what's said by them? Apparently DaveH is not the only one to seethe moderator-bias on TT. Blainerb cd: Personally I don't understandwhy he puts up with any Mormons on this site-Perry certainly deserves more respect then you are giving him-He has overlooked you guys many times-I wouldn't put up with it for a minute-You are indeed lucky that the storm knocked out my phone line and I received a virus on the two occasions Miller asked me to moderate-You should be nice to perry because if he get tired of being moderator-or you drive him off I will more them likely be next.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 4:13:24 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross I looked, but did not see anything denigrating or mocking Christians in either site, Dean? Could you quote what you are getting at? Blainerb cd:Again I don't know what you are talking about-I never sent the below web sites-I am Carroll or Dean if you prefer, not Kevin-you got the wrong brother- am I my brothers keeper? In a message dated 12/14/2005 4:59:53 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.hillcumorah.org/Pageant/ http://www.mormonmiracle.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: times and dates??? -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Mormon pageant in NY is for Gentile consumption and is Squeaky clea, everything is veiled. BUT go to Manti UT and see a pageant where they MOCK Christians, cause it is for Mormon consumption
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 4:08:55 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross In a message dated 12/14/2005 5:00:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: The why don't Mormons live by Jesus's words instead of Smith's words. Blainerb: . Smith lived and died for his testimony of Jesus Christ, whom he saw and spoke with on several occasions. Smith was His prophet, just as Moses was his prophet.There are exciting parallels between the two, in fact. If JS ever spoke anything contrary to the mind and will of the Lord, he spoke of himself. Being a man, having the weaknesses of a man, he may have done that on occasion. But that did not mean he was not a prophet who revealed the mind and will of Jesus Christ to man in these last days. Use the Holy Spirit, and the spirit of charity to be your guide in discerning the difference . . . cd: And the sad part is you actually believe a man who said there were 6 ft quaker like people living on the moon-as a prophet of God-very sad indeed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 3:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:12:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please tell us your view of resting on the Saturday Sabbath. I hesitate to bring up the subject because of such stinking attitudes from some on TT. iz Blainerb: I think the Saturday Sabbath is great, more power to anyone who keeps a Sabbath of any kind, providing they sincerely believe they are in the right. The key here is that we are consistent and honorable in what we do--that we maintain our integrity. As one man put it, "Whatsoever thou do est, O man, play the part well." But Saturday Sabbath obviously is a hold-over from the Law of Moses, so as such it is no longer binding--It was, further, the practice of early Christians to honor the Lord's Day, or the first day of the week, Sunday, in deference to the Lord's overcoming the final enemy of mankind, death. cd: I don't believe you read the attachment I sent with the 'Saturday Sabbath' Blain-I suggest you take the time to do so as it will save us both some time.The Sabbath was giving before Moses received the ten commandments which is the part of the Law that is still with us (Gen 2:2,Exod 16:28).The early Christians kept theSaturday Sabbathas both Jesus and Paul observed Saturaday.Because the Lord rose the first day of the week does not void the Sabbath-some kept both days. Every group or nationthat forgot the Sabbath in the bible was severely punished-Babylon captivity was in the most part due to forgetting the Sabbath.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 7:31:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud I'm not talking about any such nonsense G. - The dualism is all in your own head along with all the other isms. cd: :-) On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:00:45 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whileJC the shepard-kinginformsus'my sheep hear my voice' the bible informs of him, informsthe sheep going only to the Father, goingonly through him your idea of one way? no such thing: arrogantly misrepresenting JC,youpresenttwo antithetical 'ways', below--like oil and water, another cultural power play;hyper-palsentering the holy of holies likethey got the only key to the kingdomjusttogleefullyinstructGod himselfto changethe locks and bar the doors (for them)--its dualism, not biblicism On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:28:48 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || only come to Christ one way..by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 6:25:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Neither is the Devil lazy--being full of "works" does not always tell us much. :) Blainerb cd: The Devil don't preach Jesus Christ as the only Savior for mankind as Kevin does.The Devil doesn't tell others to stop sin-as Kevin does.The devil encourages sin-Tell me do you think the spirit inside Kevin is of the Devil? Remember the unforgivable sin?What say ye?
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 6:17:55 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] sweat Hmm, good points, Kevin, but I doubt there is really a discrepancy or contradiction, otherwise how are you going to explain the agony of Gethsemene? What he suffered on the cross was more physical, which lead to his death--but there obviously was the agony of Gethsemene, wherein he suffered for the sins of mankind, to such an extent as to come justshort of dying. I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually, unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death was brought into the world. That would make sense to me--but let's face it, the entire matter of his being able to reconcile man with God after the fall of Adam which brought sin and death into the world was a great miracle. I am not sure any man fully comprehends it. We see in part through the glass darkly now, but someday we will see more clearly, hopefully. p; cd: The simple fact that Jesus walked out of the garden and failed to walk away from the cross (yes,I Know He rose 3 days later) but he had to be carried from the cross should prove the crosswas life threaten not the garden-In the Garden he was praying hard for the believers and the world-so hard that blood fell as drops of sweat would fall.John chapter 17 is the prayer he prayed in the Garden -you should read it-good stuff. There have been other Believers-through out history-who have also prayedin this mannerhard and had blood also come out of their pours as sweat would. In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:29:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Forgiveness is available because of the atoning sacrifice of the Great Jehovah. Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the sins of all who ever had or ever would repent. Forgiveness is available because "God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance." (Alma 7:13.) (The Messiah Series, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1978-82) Encyclopedia of Mormonism ... For Latter-day Saints, Gethsemane was the scene of Jesus' greatest agony, even surpassing that which he suffered on the cross, an understanding supported by Mark's description of Jesus' experience (Mark 14:33-39). ... The evidence for Jesus' extreme agony in Gethsemane is buttressed by a prophecy in the Book of Mormon and a statement by the resurrected Savior recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. About 125 B.C., a Book of Mormon king, Benjamin, recounted in an important address a prophecy of the coming messiah spoken to him by an angel during the previous night. Concerning the Messiah's mortal experience, the angel declared that "he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people" (Mosiah 3:7). The Doctrine and Covenants gives the following poignant words of the resurrected Jesus: "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to b leed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (DC 19:16, 18). Modern LDS leaders have emphasized that Jesus' most challenging experience came in Gethsemane. Speaking in a general conference of the Church in 1982, Marion G. Romney, a member of the First Presidency, observed that Jesus suffered "the pains of all men, which he did, principally, in Gethsemane, the scene of his great agony" (Ensign 12 [May 1982]:6). Church President Ezra Taft Benson wrote that "it was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him" (Benson, p. 7). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1992, p. 542) This is in direct contradiction to the bible which says Romans 5:10 when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col. 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the
[TruthTalk] Time has an end
I have a Christian brother who was asking me what I thought about a book called Time Has An End by Harold Camping. I have never heard of the author or the book. Can anyone offer an opinion? Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath
Romans 14:4-6 Who are you to judge another man's servant? To his own master he stands or falls..One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. You seem to be convinced, Iz, that you need to keep the Sabbath, therefore you should do so. I have no such conviction, so I do not. You esteem one day over another, I do not. That seem scriptural to you? Dean Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 3:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:12:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please tell us your view of resting on the Saturday Sabbath. I hesitate to bring up the subject because of such stinking attitudes from some on TT. iz Blainerb: I think the Saturday Sabbath is great, more power to anyone who keeps a Sabbath of any kind, providing they sincerely believe they are in the right. The key here is that we are consistent and honorable in what we do--that we maintain our integrity. As one man put it, "Whatsoever thou do est, O man, play the part well." But Saturday Sabbath obviously is a hold-over from the Law of Moses, so as such it is no longer binding--It was, further, the practice of early Christians to honor the Lord's Day, or the first day of the week, Sunday, in deference to the Lord's overcoming the final enemy of mankind, death. cd: I don't believe you read the attachment I sent with the 'Saturday Sabbath' Blain-I suggest you take the time to do so as it will save us both some time.The Sabbath was giving before Moses received the ten commandments which is the part of the Law that is still with us (Gen 2:2,Exod 16:28).The early Christians kept theSaturday Sabbathas both Jesus and Paul observed Saturaday.Because the Lord rose the first day of the week does not void the Sabbath-some kept both days. Every group or nationthat forgot the Sabbath in the bible was severely punished-Babylon captivity was in the most part due to forgetting the Sabbath.
Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
How about to fulfill prophecy? Is that a good reason? Blainer wrote I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually, unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death was brought into the world.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:03:43 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD: And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being Born of the Spirit Each of us plays a role in the reviving ontology we call salvation. Yes. Our part is to repent and turn from our old conversation in this world or to ignore/reject the offer of eternal life. Well, ok. II Cor 5:20 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians this wise: " be ye reconciled to God." Of course it is the Father who draws man. This only happens one way which is through Christ who is the only way to the Father. I think I agree with this. I hope you do because it is Jesus who said "I am the Way, the Truth the Life, no man comes to the Father BUT by Me" (John 14:6) Since your thinking is not identical to scritpure, I am not sure what is meant by you with the words "through Christ" and so "I think I agree .." I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive.(John 14:17) So, unregenerated man can receive Christ without the help of the Father, he can give good gifts, he can even live a good enough life to avoid the judgment of God (ala Nineveh) but he can't do anything else? Yes He is. No man comes to the son except the Father draws him. God is concerned that all come to Christ. I see no limitations in Philip 2:12,13. Is this draw of God a farced event in the life of the person? No. Don't you believe Ephesians 2:1, 2? You can't have God and the spirit of this world working in you at the same time. Double minded ppl receive nothing from God... This is just plain wrong, in view of scripture. While you are busy quoting Eph 2:1,2, why not incorporate Eph 4:20-24 into the mix , as well. That passage clearly presents both the old and the new at work within man AT THE SAME TIME. ... let's not forget Romans 7:25. The ppl Paul writes to in Philip 2:12,13 are believers in the church at Philippi. So what. When you associate John 3:21 with the Philip 2 passage, you can see that there is a sense in which God is at work within us all.Old Testament writersspeak of the "still small voice within." That would be GOD.Such an explanation offers the simplest explanation ofthe fact that God draws the sinner to Christ. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is dead to truth and the life and light of God. John says the condemnation is that men love darkness and refuse to come to the light. God is not working in these men. Actully, you do believe in the total depravity of man. So now you are not only going to tell me what you believe JD - you are also going to tell me what I believe also?? Its a tough job, but someone has to do it. Look, Judy. You believe man is born a sinner. You believe that no one can do good apart from the influence of the indwelling. You don't even think we can understand scripture without some sort of divination. THAT IS BY DEFINITION "total depravity" in my book. Read Matt 7:11. Why? This chapter has to do with asking, seeking, knocking and Vs.13 addresses entering through the narrow gate with the few that find it rather than travelling the broad road - Vs.15 warns about false prophets which are known by their spiritual fruit. Did you miss the part that says "you being evil know how to give good gifts " ?? No, I saw that part but the ones He gives the good gifts to are those who ask He does not just pour spiritual gifts all over the disinterested even if it does rain on both just and unjust. The temporal blessings are just that.You are talking about what He does and I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE EVIL ONES can do -- give gifts that are good !!! Explain the good works of the confession of sin, repentance, the knowing that Christ is the Son of God. Confession of sin and turning from same is normal christianity, where do "good works" come it, this is not a work it is a godly response to truth in the heart. You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to
[TruthTalk] FW: A Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Why I Fight
A special message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin...
RE: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Lance, you need to stop mocking people who believe the plain unvarnished scriptures, or one day you will regret it before the Lord. Humble yourself now, or you will be humbled later. Just for your best, iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 6:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud Close but, no cigar, Are you claiming, through your citations pertaining to whatever issue is being discussed. to ALWAYS know the mind of God on EVERY matter? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 07:31 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud You are saying that the scriptures I cite below reflect my apprehension of what God says rather than His and that if I claim to know the mind of God on this matter then I am claiming something that is above and beyond others on TT who you call my fellow believers Of course I disagree with you Lance because being born of the Spiritis not my idea; it is God's provision in the second Adam since before the foundation of the world. As for being above or beyond fellow believers? Not so. There is no division in Christ. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:44:38 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just one time, please. Will you say back to me what YOU BELIEVE MY MEANING TO BE in what I've just said. Thereafter, tell me that you agree/disagree and, why? From: Lance Muir This (the citations below) are Judy's choices oF Scriptures which elucidate Judy's apprehension of what God has to say about these matters. UNLESS YOU CLAIM A LEADING OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR FELLOW BELIEVERS (do you?) THEN, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THUS. This response is to your saying 'AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT IT'. ATY Judy! (According to you, Judy!) From: Judy Taylor JD And so it is, that man (in Romans chapter 1) sees the creation as a witness of God just as surely as God is at work within him both to will and to accomplish His pleasure. It is all about God. We can either attach ourselves to this reality and inherit life or we can refuse the only reality that is and die. What a choice !! We have no power to attach ourselves to anything JD, we can only come to Christ one way and this is by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the engrafted Word which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it. In Romans 1:18,19 - Yes men can know by the creation that there is a God, but when they don't glorify Him as God and hold the truth in unrighteousness - their foolish hearts are darkened. So where would you get the idea that God is at workin those who have never surrendered toChrist? These peoplehave a different spirit at work in them (See Ephesians 2:1,2) which is the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. At least this is what God says about it. judyt He that says I know Him and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] FW: A Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Why I Fight
ShieldsFamily wrote: A special message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin... So what is the message?
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:00 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Izzy's sex lifeHi Izzy, I was looking through some of my old e-mails and came upon one with the above subject title--jus' thought I'd let you know I am still waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . .Blainerb[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/16/2005 2:03:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Sinceyou have been asked to stop stirring the pot And some subjects have been identified as OFF LIMITS I have declined to comment But since you guys can not leave it aloneI was refering to your PRIVATE email off list to a member of this list stating you were "waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . ."First of all, I don't recall writing to anyone in private. If I did, it may have been becauseI had not noticed it was private. Who was it that got the letter in private, Kevin? Are you the one? It must have been you, or Dean--both of you have brought this up--and if it was private why did you post it contrary to the rules?.Secondly, I vaguely remember making that comment, but I don't recall the context in whichI made it. Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
So a Satanist is on vacation in Utah he decides to take a tour of the temple. What do you think his thoughts would be when he sees his symbol for his god on your buildings?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:37:07 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Go back and reread the posts I did not say Mormons are SatanistsI asked a simple question "why do you have satanic symbols on your building?" Blainerb: The answer is and always has been, we do not have Satanist symbols on our buildings. If they appear to be such, then they are only such in the eye of the beholder. They were never intended to be Satanist symbols, but the opposite--symbols of Jesus Christ, of heaven, etc. This, of course, led to a discussion on why we do not have crosses, as you will remember. And then everyone got all upset because we had stars, not crosses, on our buildings. Now a lot of people are mad at us because, as they say at least, we "hate crosses" which we actually do not. Hmmm, we have been through a lot together, huh Kevin? It gets almost humorous, doesn't it? __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Time has an end
Terry, just Google his name; there's plenty. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:55 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Time has an end I have a Christian brother who was asking me what I thought about a book called Time Has An End by Harold Camping. I have never heard of the author or the book. Can anyone offer an opinion? Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Notice it does not say become perfect it says BE - Present TENSE How are you doing?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are entitled to your opinion, Lance, however, I do not see that such Mormon beliefs as you have outlined detract from traditional Christianity--they do go beyond it, but I see no reason this should be an arrow in the side of Christians who are trying to live Christianity as they understand it.I see nothing unhallowed in the God-was-a-man-who-became-perfect beliefs of the Mormon Church--in fact, it seems to be quite a lofty idea, aimed at improving one's motivationto become perfect and more god-like. As Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Do you not intend to keep this commandment, Lance? BlainerbIn a message dated 12/16/2005 1:41:50 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me take a 'shot' at it (the SATANISM THINGY)If a group adheres to a theology wherein 1. their god was a man who became a god who begat children (spiritually) who subsequently inhabited that god's planet and rebelled against their god partly through the temptation of one of their god's sons (lucifer) so that one of their god's other sons (jesus) had to be born through a union of their god and one of the people on that god's planet (mary)so as to redeem the 'rebelled ones' THEN I WOULD SAY THAT THERE JUST MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO THIS SATANISM THINGY" IMO OF COURSE!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 16, 2005 14:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE "... In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:45:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:IS FORTHCOMING!!??Y'all are pleased to engage on minutiae but on the big issues y'all 'take a pass'? WHY?Blainerb: I consider a post that suggests Mormons adhere to Satanism to be a "big issue." Are you suggesting Kevin be allowed to "take a pass" on this issue? That suggests to me he has no URL tying the photo to LDS buildings, and wants to be let off the hook. If he does have such, I am interested in seeing the source, whether it be valid, or just another anti-Mormon potshot at the LDS Church. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
Kevin, Blaine this is a banned thread...please move on. From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:53:48 -0800 (PST) Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Izzy's sex life Hi Izzy, I was looking through some of my old e-mails and came upon one with the above subject title--jus' thought I'd let you know I am still waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . . Blainerb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/16/2005 2:03:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since you have been asked to stop stirring the pot And some subjects have been identified as OFF LIMITS I have declined to comment But since you guys can not leave it alone I was refering to your PRIVATE email off list to a member of this list stating you were waiting with 'bated breath for your more complete description . . . First of all, I don't recall writing to anyone in private. If I did, it may have been because I had not noticed it was private. Who was it that got the letter in private, Kevin? Are you the one? It must have been you, or Dean--both of you have brought this up--and if it was private why did you post it contrary to the rules?. Secondly, I vaguely remember making that comment, but I don't recall the context in which I made it. Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] sweat
Blaine, your question reveals why you dont understand Christian reverence for the Cross. Jesus had to die on the cross as the payment for our sins. He was the innocent, perfect sacrificial Passover lamb, slain for the sins of the world. Just as the Jews, who were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt, had to paint the blood of the Passover lamb on their doorposts to make the Destroyer pass by them during judgment on that horrible night in Egypt when all the firstborn were slain, Jesus serves as our blood sacrifice, that we might be spared death for our slavery to sin, and deliverance from sinjust as the Jews were delivered from Egypt. Jesus, the Firstborn, who was without sin, was the only one qualified to be that perfect holy sacrifice for our sins. It was His Blood, shed on the Cross (nowhere else, because THAT is where He actually was slain), that redeems all those who take cover under it, just as the Jews did under their doorposts. THAT is why satan HATES the mention of THE BLOOD OF CHRISTbecause THAT is what OVERCAME his evil devices and has sealed his eternal doom, as well as the Believers eternal deliverance from damnation. May God help you to understand this. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:35 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] sweat How about to fulfill prophecy? Is that a good reason? Blainer wrote I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually, unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death was brought into the world.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
maybe current conservativeculture's root level dualistic tendencyalters the word 'word' in Jamesto 'Word'--apparently your dualism requires it, too, butitain't written that way, M'am, e.g.,: James 1:21(King James Version) ..receive with meekness the engrafted word.. your innovative private rendering of the biblereinforces the doctrinal demand you place squarely upon it--its a manipulative approach to God, too,M'am, as ugly as any other counterfeiter's, partic the inability/unwillingness toanalyze any ofyour own presuppostions On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:28:48 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || only come to Christ one way..by being drawn by the Father through the Spirit by the Word and it is the "engrafted Word" which is able to save the soul as we choose to walk in it.
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
myth (that's a dangerous platitude whilethere is division in your own theology fromyour own mind--your two manufactured approaches to salvation joined at the hip todaycommunicate divergent theories of'Christ') On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:34:50 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no division in Christ.
[TruthTalk] Why I Fight by Daniel Lapin
WHY I FIGHT Readers of my columns which often excoriate secularizing organizations, may of them Jewish, frequently ask me, Lapin, why do you fight? My answer is always the same. I fight to preserve an America comprising millions of diverse citizens all with their own beliefs yet who are united by a common view of what constitutes virtuous behavior. Living among people who do not behave virtuously is at the very least unpleasant. It is usually also intimidating, and ultimately dangerous and expensive. If many of my fellow citizens are unable to restrain themselves from criminal conduct, the quality of my life declines. An evening stroll through the neighborhood becomes a frightening experience. My cost of living goes up as commerce compensates for shoplifting, fraud, and robbery. Mounting regulations rob me of my freedoms as government futilely attempts to control the anti-social behavior of those who have lost the ability to control themselves. If many of my fellow citizens strip the sacred out of sex, the quality of my life declines. My struggle to reach for the stars, already difficult, becomes infinitely harder as the culture around me shackles me to the barnyard. I struggle to raise my children for a life of refinement and spiritual aspiration while hormonal hysteria competes for their attention. One can tell people by the language they use and the language around us becomes ever more vulgar and obscene. One can tell much by how people dress and my daughters are made to feel like freaks because they dont expose their belly buttons, breasts, or thighs. If many of my fellow citizens replace courage with cowardice, the quality of my life declines. They may cloak their cowardice in virtue by speaking of pacifism or wishing to save lives but their abject fear nonetheless empowers tyranny. Their fear of confronting evil means they see only victims, never villains. They see only the deprived and never the depraved. They make it all but impossible for government to fulfill its primary purposedefending citizens from violence. It is cowardice when government fails to empower the military to protect us from violence perpetrated by outside enemies. It is cowardice again when our criminal justice system fails to protect us from violence inflicted by conscienceless psychopaths. Crime, sex, and cowardice are all natural. They are found in nature. Animals seize one anothers food, they respond instinctively to the sexual impulse, and, given the choice, they run rather than fight. I think that God may have hoped for better from humanity. We all live more happily when we live among people who do not act upon their natures but resist them. The quality of all our lives is enhanced when we each conquer our natures. If we hope to deter crime only through police, why, there cannot be enough police officers to prevent crime. For in the final analysis, who will police the police? In similar vein, all the sex-ed classes in public education are inadequate to prevent young human bodies from responding instinctively to the sexual impulse. With regard to cowardice, the rarity of courage reminds us of how banal is cowardice. It is the natural reflexive response to frightening challenge. In other words, it seems to me that our only hope of escaping increasing crime is either increased rates of incarceration or alternatively if we each recover our own capability to reject the lure of crime. Not because we might get caught by a policeman but because we loathe the idea of sullying our souls. It used to be that way. Im sure you remember a time when Americans seldom locked their doors. Our only hope for replacing public depravity and animalism is if we all raise children who revel in modesty and who take pride in saving themselves for marriage. No government program can accomplish this. Our only hope for recovering national courage is if we once again find meaning in masculinity and we view cowardly behavior as shameful rather than as newsworthy. However government cannot effect any of these changes. But God can. I think there may be only one hope for restoring and maintaining the quality of life which originally made America such a magnet for the worlds downtrodden seeking a better life. That one hope is a Biblical blueprint for civilization. It is no accident that in the many American communities of Orthodox Jews, dedicated Catholics, and serious Evangelicals these problems are considerably less severe. I say Biblical because only the Bible is built on the lesson of the Garden of Eden. Man is placed in this world to do battle with natureall nature, especially his own. Left to itself, the earth will bring forth weeds and thistles but man must make it yield food. Left to itself, the jungle will overwhelm the city but man must defend civilization. Left to himself, man will follow his nature toward crime, animalistic sex, and cowardice. It is our God-given duty to resist. As Kathryn
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:49:37 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ithink I agree with this. I hope you do because it is Jesus who said "I am the Way, the Truth the Life, no man comes to the Father BUT by Me" (John 14:6) Since your thinking is not identical to scritpure, I am not sure what is meant by you with the words "through Christ" and so "I think I agree .." This is ridiculous JD, what I mean is exactly what John 14:6 says without any added anything. How much more plain can that be? I believe that Philip 2:12-13 reveals a point of truth for all men. God is at work in us all. But we still have choices, which you you, as well. So I am not sure why you wrote the above. Because God is NOT at work in ALL men.He is at work in those who have 'by faith' received Christ along with the indwelling Holy Spirit... who the world CAN NOT receive.(John 14:17) So, unregenerated man can receive Christ without the help of the Father, he can give good gifts, he can even live a good enough life to avoid the judgment of God (ala Nineveh) but he can't do anything else? No unregenerate man can not receive Christ aside from being drawn by the Father (John 6:44). The unregenerate can receive God's temporal blessings ie: it rains on both just and unjust etc. and No he can not live a good enough life to avoid the judgment. Nineveh temporarily repented remember? Later on they reneged and were destroyed anyway. Yes He is. No man comes to the son except the Father draws him. God is concerned that all come to Christ. I see no limitations in Philip 2:12,13. Is this draw of God a farced event in the life of the person? No. Don't you believe Ephesians 2:1, 2? You can't have God and the spirit of this world working in you at the same time. Double minded ppl receive nothing from God (James 1:8). This is just plain wrong, in view of scripture. No it isn't JD. Everything I am writing is exactly what scripture is saying and since the scriptures are not contradictory you need to reconcile these in your own mind. While you are busy quoting Eph 2:1,2, why not incorporate Eph 4:20-24 into the mix , as well. That passage clearly presents both the old and the new at work within man AT THE SAME TIME. ... let's not forget Romans 7:25. The man in Romans 7 wanted to do things God's way and so does the person in Eph 4:21 that is "Assuming that you have really heard Him and been taught by Him... strip yourselves of your former nature (put off and discard your old unrenewed self) which characterized your previous manner of life and becomes corrupt through lusts and desires that spring from delusion"- So this person has made a clear choice and is not "of two opinions or of two minds"The ppl Paul writes to in Philip 2:12,13 are believers in the church at Philippi. So what. When you associate John 3:21 with the Philip 2 passage, you can see that there is a sense in which God is at work within us all.Old Testament writersspeak of the "still small voice within." That would be GOD.Such an explanation offers the simplest explanation ofthe fact that God draws the sinner to Christ. You mean an old testament prophet by the name of Elijah spoke of the "still small voice" - Prophets had a ministry gift anointing but in general OT ppl although in covenant with God through Moses did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. Your belief that man is totally depraved of good works before he is introduced to the indwelling Spirit is fantasy. Doesn't matter how many goodworks they still have a heart that is wicked and deceitful. I don't believe man is "totally depraved" in the 5 point Calvinistic sense. However, he is
Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud
Gary do you ever get weary from all this psychobabble? On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:14:44 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (that's a dangerous platitude whilethere is division in your own theology fromyour own mind--your two manufactured approaches to salvation joined at the hip todaycommunicate divergent theories of'Christ') On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:34:50 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no division in Christ. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
