es not and will
probably never use).
Reed
Reed Hedges wrote:
> Was the crystalspace snapshot updated or changed recently? I'm getting
> these errors now trying to build it. Is anyone else or is something
> strange going on with my checkout?
>
__
nclude/csutil/formatter.h:1411: instantiated from 'void
csPrintfFormatter::Format(Twriter&) [with Twriter =
csStringFmtWriter, Treader = csFmtDefaultReader]'
libs/csutil/csstring.cpp:117: instantiated from here
./include/csutil/formatter.h:1136: error: 'struct
csPrintfFormatt
just thought of some really simple animations (moving objects) . Maybe i can
implement them this weekend. Could build some generic tools in the process.
reed
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to also have an A3DL object model
that's easy for the user to access directly, without going through other
tools, if he needs to.
Reed
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tices . I started it out
with a few tips and TODO items, add more TODOs (and tips) as you
encounter situations and figure things out.)
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Reed Hedges wrote:
> The planned S5 features of embedded properties and string pooling ought
> to make it efficient to search for objects on a site by type or name
I mean both object name and contextual name.
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(have seperate pools for name and type?)
What about searching property values? It would also be nice if they
could be very efficiently searched.
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s, since
it's possible that people won't want to have to go back and change the
source models, especially if you have a nontrivial workflow involving
several artists and programmers).
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http:/
exposes a running VRML scene in VOS, but I've been lazy and distracted
by web stuff and haven't worked on it for a while. :)
If anyone is interested in talking about how jointed, animated geometry
will work (for both humanoid avatars and other stuff) will work, go
ahead :)
Reed
On Sat, M
thing of a dead end on the internet, and most local networks as
well that haven't been set up with the possability of multicast in mind.
Reed
On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 05:51:45AM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
> Aaron Bentley posted to the bzr list about a Van Jacobson talk:
> > I w
m the
original. In your example, the texture belongs to both I guess, but
really, both objects have links/references to some objects, that it
just happens to be the same one can be looked over for the most part I
think.
Reed
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 11:45:50AM +0200, Karsten Otto wrote:
> We
. Then
you can have different sites for different versions.
Then, while you can't cryptographically verify the derivative, you can
verify its original, and compare them to see if they are the same data
or diferent.
Reed
On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 03:48:38PM -0500, Len Bullard wrote:
> Unde
write didn't work, since you're still looking at P.2.
So P.2 needs to be an alias for "most recent version of P.2" in the same
way that P was. P.3 is then also an alias for "most recent version of
P.3", but P.3 doesn't have any derivative versions, so it
on in the branch rooted on this object, which if there
is only one version in the branch, is the same as the root object" [if
that makes any sense].
Reed
On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 06:51:20PM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
> (Cutting the great summary, keeping the VOS part)
>
> On Mon, 0
I downloaded a copy of this video if anyone wants it.
Reed
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ding whatever fields you want to the
message, and for Terangreal to check for the field for the position
property. This is why fields have names.
Pete's idea of having extensible method types is interesting though,
might be useful.
Reed
__
o click on an object and zoom
up to it, or if you want to do an interpolation for zooming to some
bookmark or viewpoint, you could use it. Maybe add a "don't
interpolate" flag to a position update call?
Reed
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ded in your repository anyway, since there are people who might
> want to check out the latest source for something but still don't want
> to be required to have every last little build tool. Thoughts?
The problem with this is you can end up with these files being
regerenerated
ere to find libtool (e.g. under /usr)?
You may have seen Peter's recent message about changing the build
system. Pete, if we're not using automake, then we wouldn't have to use
libtool either, right?
Also, is jam is available on various systems like Solaris?
Reed
__
Wow, thanks Ken!
>
> The only thing I haven't really tracked down is that avatar movement seems a
> bit "jerky" in the MSVC build. If I get more time I might look into it...
Try it in a release build. (both VOS and Crystalspace in release mode).
MSVC puts a lot of extra code in when in debug
being used, and what version of automake?
Reed
Lars O. Grobe wrote:
> Hi, did anyone manage to build VOS on Solaris? Here it ends:
>
> libs/vos/vip/Makefile.am:1: Libtool library used but `LIBTOOL' is undefined.
> libs/vos/vip/Makefile.am:1: The usual way to define `L
, whatever).
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n and formalize those structures for
your application. Check out the "Creating Interreality" manual for
description and if you have any questions, let us know.
Reed
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detect a corresponding speech
> pattern like "kao: are you there?"
>
> approach - like "face", but also move the avatar close to the
> target.
These behaviors would also be useful in 3D too.
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This would be great for people who primarily want to just chat or be
present in the world while doing other work, so they don't want the full
3D world.
It would also make it possible for blind people to interact in the 3D
world.
Reed
On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 01:54:23PM -0400, Peter Am
vation has been searching for a good web application focused on
Question and Answer customer support, as well as general forum
discussion.
Reed
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t
create objects in the mesh tool, this is a good way of experimenting
with stuff.)
The server framework is called omnivos. If you look at (vos/apps/omnivos)
you'll see that it's like 15 lines of code :) It mainly just loads
plugins. Run it with one of the example configuration fi
a plugin??) with JS bindings, or
if it makes more sense for the server to translate the events into
a more web-specific protocol that would be interpreted entirely by
Javascript code shipped along with the page (even perhaps including all the
object-to-XML logic in the server as well, like Hype
ding on
the object's types. ... OR ... when the mouse is over and object and you
press a key like spacebar or 's' or something, select it.
At some point all these key bindings will be configurable anyway, right?
At some point we will also want to have multiple selected objects that
you can apply changes to as a set.
Reed
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Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. The archive of vos-d is
at http://interreality.org/pipermail/vos-d/ .
Reed
On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 11:23:06AM -0700, HEBLACK, J wrote:
> [vos-d] email archive
>
> Is there an online log-archive of e-mail messages that have not be
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 10:29:35PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:26:09PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>
> > * Change mouse cursor to reflect what clicking will do (i.e.
> > differentiate between mouselook/move modes; change when over a hypercard
re
single keystrokes you can hit with your left hand while you mouse with
your right (or vice versa). But we should also have contextual menus
(even pie menus?) too (especially for a CAVE or something).
Reed
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:16:59AM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>> So messages between local objects will be serialized and passed like
>> remote messages, rather than being method calls? Is that overhead a
>> concern?
>
> It is a concern, altho
as the method handler arguments (omitting the field labels)?
Reed
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 05:16:16PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>
>> There's also something called Flow-Based Programming that is similar. In
>> some ways it's closer to VOS since Actors are, I think, more like method
>> handlers (in VOS
Ken Taylor wrote:
> the fact that you guys seem to be allergic to comments doesn't
> help either ;) (i jest! i jest ... sorta)
>
Just Pete.
But he wrote most of the code.
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> (in our case boost, wx, crystal space) has to be rather tediously opened
> separatedly, compiled and copied by hand to the proper place.
Well the wx project files could be included in the solution. Also CS?
You can use "pre-build events" to run bjam etc. to build boost and
c
e well known and more carefully studied and
defined (though I guess we will be deviating from it)
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properties like reflectance, nor does it include any procedural
textures -- that's what that statement means.
Reed
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in the tree and in the source release too,
especially if eventually we want vos to be buildable on all kinds of
server operating systems (and where admins want to just run "make" and
not have to install extra tools).
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rading items. Actually this is
> quite similar to my Blender experience - it drove me crazy when I had
> to use the menus, but was a breeze once I knew the keyboard
> shortcuts. Not sure if there is a lesson there...
We need these keyboards--
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/op
;t
have to have it installed if you want to modify the makefiles.
I'd suggest looking into scons, since it seems to be more popular than
bakefile (it's also used by blender). I have never used it though.
Would jam be useful for generating VC projects or nm
y but I hope to get back on this soon.
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could also talk to each other using
different protocols. Not sure yet how to bridge to completely different
multiuser 3D systems but at some point we might see if it's possible.
Reed
Reed Hedges wrote:
>
>
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
We've been up to something over here - thought I would tell you about it
before you heard it on the street.
Media Machines has been developing a multi-user server based on a new
protocol that we intend to put out into the open. We have dubbed it Simple
Wide Area Multi
it's a bit annoying :)
> And orphaned vobjects just seem like a lose.
Related to this, I added a new setting and command to mesh, "cache". The
setting does an initial request for all objects when you enter a new
object to cache them. This doesn't actually solve the problem (since
you still have to wait for the initial cache) but it makes the actual
"ls" command operate at a reasonable speed. Set settings in mesh with
the "set" command (and you can put this command or any other commands in
~/.mesh/meshrc).
Reed
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3D to be-- Peter and I may not even be able to explain it
well yet.
So, we're just trying to implement what we can, so we can show it to
people and eventually find a niche.
Reed
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:22:10AM -0500, Len Bullard wrote:
> The urge to focus on one single application i
far ahead at the moment ;)
Yeah, I think we'll worry about that later. I'm pretty sure we'll be
able to implement all kinds of quota or throttling access control
behaviors in server plugins in the future, when they become neccesary,
as long as we keep Identities in
through XOD.cc. I added some info
about them to http://interreality.org/wiki/XodDocumentation.
Reed
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dd a little
side-pane that has basic info about the object, and checks the object
for "ui:actions" and makes a button for each action. We can also add
here buttons for future built-in object operations we add to TerANgreal.
Reed
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to avoid it.
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ocused on VRML and supported all of it,
though I was only looking at the free ones.
(Back when I was able to actually do 3D for a job I ended up exporting
VRML from a simple modeler called AC3D and then mucking about in it by
hand slightly.)
Reed
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it yet, I want to figure out how to be smart
about inventing positions for 3d objects automatically.
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 06:15:39PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>
>> The reason I ask is that I want to load some 3D objects from a COD file,
>> but then insert some non-3d children into one of those objects, and
>> extend its types. This is the kind
to gather objects declared in
different places in the file that have parent child relationships.
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
> Try
>
>template register() {
> VobjectBase::registerHandler("message", &T::handler);
>}
>
> (note T::handler)
Same problem -- it can't use the method in the base class when the
template parameter is the derived class--
A smaller example:
This won't compile b
For one thing, apparently you can't do this:
class Base {
public:
virtual void pure() = 0;
template register() {
VobjectBase::registerHandler("message", &handler);
}
void handler(Message *m) {
...
}
};
class VirtualDerived : public virtual Base {
public:
VirtualDerived() {
Does XOD or should XOD have stuff like the following?
...
...
...
...
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o deeply into the way it stores
the function pointers in VobjectBase yet...
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names, and VobjectBase is only able to find
the handlers associated with the typeid of the subclass, not the base
class.
Any ideas on how we can fix this in VOS?
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will view
the world in a client that is connected to those servers using the VOS
network protocol and object models.
Let me know if you want more info or want to help implement this.
http://interreality.org for more about VOS.
Reed
__
Reed Hedges wrote:
> OK, cool. We have needed that kind of thing for a long time. We had a
> simple way of doing this called OTD (object type definition) a while
> ago, but then all the code change and all the OTDs went out of date :)
http://interreality.org/wiki/ObjectTypeDefinit
(-> length-update)
* start-listening (-> start-listening-reply, update)
* stop-listening
No child objects defined (but they might be used in certain applications).
Then there's the access control policies.
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graphical object to represent people.
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Reed Hedges wrote:
> One thing that we need to do is make some better demo worlds for
> Interreality/3D. Let's brainstorm some ideas; you can post your ideas
> here or on the wiki:
Here's what we have so far. See the Wiki for more discussion, summaries
of requi
mentations, but if people want to have bizarro physics experiments,
it's up to them to keep that from confusing the rest of their world
that's trying to operate normally.
Reed
On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 12:54:40PM +0100, Karsten Otto wrote:
> In all this discussion I am not quite clear
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:14:51PM +0100, Benjamin Mesing wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 11:03 -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:03:44AM -0500, Reed Hedges wrote:
> >
> > > Each object should be internally responsible for deciding how it
> >
requesting movement), I think.
This would be ideal, at least. It allows you to distribute physics
computation load by just distributing objects on different sites
(servers).Will this work? Will it work when an object a on Site A
is moved, detects its collision with object b on site B, s
about
illegal moves, etc. Maybe at this point, get it to automatically play
against you (hook it in to gnuchess or gnugo for Chess and Go, for
example). Then after that maybe represent valid moves using special
Vobjects, and have the game validate moves and prevent you from making
illegal moves.
Ree
oncurrency problems, but you never know (especially in a hybrid
environment like MinGW).
Reed
Ken Taylor wrote:
>> libcrystalspace.a exists and "file" detects it just fine, so I don't know
>> what's going on there. libzlib.dll is an empty (size-0) file, so I really
>&
o vos concepts, and the message flow should work as dbus
expects it to. Except maybe for the fact that IIRC, in dbus more than
one receiver can get a message.
Reed
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 12:02:29AM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> Quick thing to point out, COM and D-BUS are fundamentially diff
ror I think. What should
the error code be? A number in the "error" field? Or a string?
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think.
So adding and removing services looks like adding/removing vobjects;
changing the prenesce status of your avatar sends a dbus event to
synchronize with other IM systems, etc.
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ral ideas that I'll write up on the wiki page in a bit. What
are some of yours?
After we get a big list of ideas and talk about them, let's choose a few
(three? four?) to focus on implementing.
Implementation will be done via omnivos plugins, as well as adding
whatever req
maybe "core:error"
instead?
err.insertField("error", "Unrecognized message method: " +
msg->getMethod());
err.setType("reply"); // ?? or "update"?
from->sendMessage(err);
}
Does this make sense? Can I add it? (It would be in
VobjectBase::msgSend
Reed Hedges wrote:
> Ken Taylor wrote:
>> dateformatfilter.cc: In member function `void DateFormatter::reformat()':
>> dateformatfilter.cc:107: error: `localtime_r' undeclared (first use this
>> function)
>> dateformatfilter.cc:107: error: (Each undeclared id
e culprit is line 10 in dateformatfilter.hh. Should be
> #ifndef VTOOLBOX_EXPORTS instead of VOS_EXPORTS?
>
Yeah probably, I'll change that.
You can come on IRC and we can do this in real time if you want :)
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Reed Hedges wrote:
> Ken Taylor wrote:
>> Another problem, this one also apparently Reed's fault (j/k), and this time
>> actually crashing the compiler!
>>
>
> Wow, crashed the compiler!
>
> Actually this is actually something you can fault me with,
clarations. Or, blame
Windows for requiring that stuff and making it a pain in the neck.
I'll look into it.
Reed
>
> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../libs/vos -I../../../libs -I../../../i
> nplace/include -DVOS_EXPORTS -D_REENTRANT -D_MT -mthreads -I/c/vos-projects/
&
> revno: 1041.3.7
> merged: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> committer: Reed Hedges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> branch nick: vos
> timestamp: Sat 2006-12-30 18:13:25 -0500
> message:
> aoetnuhaoenuthaoneth
>
> I see Reed uses a dvorak keyboard! ;)
H
I've been trying to learn more about OpenID. So far I don't really see
the point beyond just making it easier to log in to various web sites--
that is I haven't yet seen any utility to using it as an authentication
option in VOS.
What do y
Peter Amstutz wrote:
> Uh oh. Blame Reed. And the fact that I haven't actually built VOS on
> Windows for a while... That particular file was just added recently. I
> need to set up a dedicated Windows box for development so I don't have
> to reboot my main m
is to be a utilitarian tool, and
as a harness for bringing all components together. Later it could be
skinnable for a specific application but that's sort of in the future at
this point.
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would work with VOS of course.
Or maybe it can be done as a layer easily adapted to different engines?
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fixed point representation
(or string even), and be careful in converting them from that
representation into IEEE floats but in the local viewpoint-centered
rendering coordinate system.
Right?
Reed
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ient's search
query could be based on.
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Talking about authentication/identity in future 3D worlds etc.:
Just found out about this: http://openid.net/
Decentralized shared ID thing. Anyone know anythnig about it?
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http
t;.
In what manner? I.e. by import/export? Or directly in A3DL?
(Or do we not seed to specify for the requirements?)
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Also, ODE doesn't use any randomness does it?
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Benjamin Mesing wrote:
>> Question: will the two images of the two experiments show box2 in the
>> same rest position relative to box1?
>
> Why don't we consider floating point precision issues as computers
> equivalent to Heisenbergs uncertainty principle?
Well, OK not to be pedantic or anything
chris wrote:
> Consider the case when a military simulation
> is used to generate images that they expect a sensor should "see".
> These images are compared to "ground truth" images and the result is
> used to calibrate a sensor - which is then used in a craft or weapon.
> If there is unknown posi
ch could be client managed (i.e. something like a PGP key). Then
> creating an account or logging into a site is just a matter of sending
> your public key and authenticating yourself, no "please choose a login
> name and password" bullshit required for every single site.
Like MS Passport but not monopolized by MS :)
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chris wrote:
> That's a nice idea but might be difficult.
The first version of TerAngreal could do this, so I think I'm talking
about something much simpler than you think :)All I mean is that as
scene author you *manually* subdivide nested spaces, and you make some
container object for
TerAngreal's default walking speed is roughly based on that, but
they don't have to be meters if you don't want to.]
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he rendering all at
once that might be a bit of a challenge, but should be possible to
figure out. (My guess is that graphics research has already discovered
some solutions to this?)
Reed
S Mattison wrote:
> This might seem a haphazard or poorly thought out question, but it has
> been long
Peter Amstutz wrote:
> 1.5. 3D Graphics Requirements
>
> 1.5.1. Meshes and Effects
>
How about vertical "terrain" described by a bitmap. (I.e. heightmap/DEM).
Reed
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ners fire. It could be that the vast majority of those
listener updates are in fact completely unneccesary, since the first
thing the listener will do is do a check like those in the examples
above. In a distributed system, this results in a lot of useless
packets and waiting around for the
gt; new property data, the vobject sends out an invalidation message (I've
> changed, you're out of date) and the remote side has the option of
> deciding whether to go out and fetch the updated value. The reasoning
> being, beyond a certain point the extra round tr
he 3D
>space.
>
? On connection to a world, right ? (i.e. via a factory)
>Users shall be able to select from multiple avatars, and
>configure the appearance of their avatar.
>
This is selecting from multiple options given by the factory?
...
What about sound effects in the world? I think we need to have those
eventually (i.e. objects that emit discrete sounds or loops from a
spatialized 3d position and direction).
Reed
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