Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Wikimedia Foundation is not even in the top 100 non-profits in the United States: https://www.forbes.com/top-charities/list/ Money is relative. On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 10:34 PM Nathan wrote: > I think it was doomed to fail as soon as people argued that an organization > with an ~$80m annual

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Sorry, but this is not valid. I can't leave this uncommented. Assume the article is right, then all metrics would be bad. Thus we can't find any example that contradicts the statement in the article. If we pick coverage of automated tests as a metric, then _more_ test coverage would be bad given

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

I think it was doomed to fail as soon as people argued that an organization with an ~$80m annual budget had too many "resource constraints" to address a backlog of bugs in its core product. That happened in the first five or so replies to the thread! On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 10:05 PM John Erling

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

It is a strange discussion, especially as it is now about how some technical debts are not _real_ technical debts. You have some code, and you change that code, and breakage emerge both now and for future projects. That creates a technical debt. Some of it has a more pronounced short time effect

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 3:32 PM Nick Wilson (Quiddity) wrote: > Pine, > please see the exact (quite precise) definition of > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/technical_debt > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt > https://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html > I.e. Technical debt is Not

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:08 PM Pine W wrote: > :) Structured data exists regarding many other subjects such as books and > magazines. I would think that a similar approach could be taken to > technical debt. I realize that development tasks have properties and > interactions that change over

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Pine, please see the exact (quite precise) definition of https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/technical_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt https://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html I.e. Technical debt is Not at all equivalent to "bugs". The topic is a tangential one. Software can

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

:) Structured data exists regarding many other subjects such as books and magazines. I would think that a similar approach could be taken to technical debt. I realize that development tasks have properties and interactions that change over time, but I think that having a better quantitative

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> > I would prefer to have a way to measure technical debt and how it is > changing. > I think the entire software industry would prefer to have that, but as far as I know, that type of measurement does not exist. On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 4:23 PM Pine W wrote: > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:16 PM

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:16 PM Gergő Tisza wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:01 PM Derk-Jan Hartman < > d.j.hartman+wmf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Last year has seen a lot of focus on Technical Debt. WMF also has a core > > platform team now, which finally allows a more sustainable chipping

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM John Erling Blad wrote: > > > The devs is not the primary user group, and they never will be. An > editor is a primary user, and (s)he has no idea where the letters > travels or how they are stored. A reader is a primary user, and > likewise (s)he has no idea how

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

All software development costs someone something. Software does not change without someone paying something for it (even if that is just their own time, time has value). To that end, technical debt, is like any other software change. There is no difference between solving technical debt, fixing

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:01 PM Derk-Jan Hartman < d.j.hartman+wmf...@gmail.com> wrote: > Last year has seen a lot of focus on Technical Debt. WMF also has a core > platform team now, which finally allows a more sustainable chipping away at > some of the technical debt. Yeah. Having tech debt

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:53 PM bawolff wrote: > > Technical debt is by definition "ickyness felt by devs". It is a thing that > can be worked on. It is not the only thing to be worked on, nor should it > be, but it is one aspect of the system to be worked on. If its ignored it > makes it really

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Monday, March 18, 2019, John Erling Blad wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:52 PM bawolff wrote: > > > > First of all, I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with everything > tgr > > wrote. > > > > Regarding Pine's question on technical debt. > > > > Technical debt is basically a fancy

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:52 PM bawolff wrote: > > First of all, I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with everything tgr > wrote. > > Regarding Pine's question on technical debt. > > Technical debt is basically a fancy way of saying something is "icky". It > is an inherently subjective

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 2:38 PM C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > A secondary issue is that too much wiki dev is done by WMF/WMFDE employees > (IMO); I don't think the current percentages lead to an overall healthy > open source community. But (again in my view) the first step to nurturing > and

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 8:23 AM Strainu wrote: > > > A large backlog by itself is not alarming. A growing one for > > components deployed to WMF sites is. It indicates insufficient > > attention is given to ongoing maintenance of projects after they are > > no longer "actively developed", which

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 17:22 +0200, Strainu wrote: > That being said, their org stats are pretty awsome, is there any way > to obtain similar stats from Phabricator/Gerrit (at least by email > domain if nothing else)? See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Community_metrics andre -- Andre Klapper |

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> > Second, returning to the subject of technical debt, my understanding was > that WMF staff were concerned for years about the accumulation of technical > debt, but in this thread I get the impression that WMF staff has changed > their minds. Am I misunderstanding something? Last year has seen

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

First of all, I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with everything tgr wrote. Regarding Pine's question on technical debt. Technical debt is basically a fancy way of saying something is "icky". It is an inherently subjective notion, and at least for me, how important technical debt is

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hi, First, I'll respond to Scott's comment that " A secondary issue is that too much wiki dev is done by WMF/WMFDE employees (IMO); I don't think the current percentages lead to an overall healthy open source community. But (again in my view) the first step to nurturing and growing our

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

În dum., 17 mar. 2019 la 23:22, Gergo Tisza a scris: > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 8:23 AM Strainu wrote: > > > A large backlog by itself is not alarming. A growing one for > > components deployed to WMF sites is. It indicates insufficient > > attention is given to ongoing maintenance of projects

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 5:37 PM Thomas Eugene Bishop < thomasbis...@wenlin.com> wrote: > A bug fix was provided years ago but never accepted or rejected. It’s the > first and last MediaWiki bug ever assigned to me. I’ve just unassigned > myself. > >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 9:25 AM Strainu wrote: > That's an overstatement: 18% (not counting bugs closed as declined) is > almost double to 11%. If you're going this route, we're doing much > worse than Chromium. > I have a hard time imagining that anyone would be upset that 18% of our tasks are

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

I'll echo Andre here: the specific problem of patches from new volunteer devs which don't get timely responses is a real issue, and one which we have attempted to address (as Andre described) but an area we could probably still use additional ideas, accountability, etc for. A secondary issue is

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hi and thanks for joining the discussion! On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 20:37 -0400, Thomas Eugene Bishop wrote: > Here’s a specific example, created in 2015: > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116145 < > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116145> > > > A bug fix was provided years ago but

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> On Mar 13, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Andre Klapper > wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-03-13 at 21:01 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: >> ... But nobody does anything about the >> sinkhole itself. > > And repeating the same thing over and over again while repeatedly > ignoring

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

În sâm., 16 mar. 2019 la 15:55, David Barratt a scris: > > Perhaps a better example would be the Drupal community who has a total of > ~1,071,600 issues and ~282,350 of those are open > https://www.drupal.org/project/issues and they have several organizations >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Perhaps a better example would be the Drupal community who has a total of ~1,071,600 issues and ~282,350 of those are open https://www.drupal.org/project/issues and they have several organizations https://www.drupal.org/organizations working on the software. I do not understand how a large

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 04:52 +, Pine W wrote: > From the end user perspective, reporting a bug and then having nothing > happen, or getting an initial reply but later seeing that a bug appears to > stall for months or years, may be frustrating depending on the nature of > the bug and the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Stas made a point that I was considering too, although from a different perspective. One of the issues may be a difference between end user expectations and what the resources are available to fulfill those expectations. Communications requires time and mental bandwidth, both of which are

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

În joi, 14 mar. 2019 la 22:23, Gergő Tisza a scris: > About backlogs in general, Chromium is probably the biggest > open-source Google repo; that has currently 940K tickets, 60K of which are > open, and another 50K have been auto-archived after a year of inactivity. > (As others have pointed out,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hi! > Yes, there should always be a response to all bugs. Without a response > the impression in the reporting wiki-community would be "nobody cares > about our bug reports". Would a canned "thank you for your feedback, please stay on the line, your call is very important to us" response make

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, 2019-03-13 at 01:22 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > What frustrates me the most are > > - bugs found by the editor community, that has obvious simple fixes, > which isn't acted upon for several years > - new features that isn't fully tested, and you have to answer in the > community

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:02 PM Strainu wrote: > The main problem I see with the community wishlist is that it's a > process beside the normal process, not part of it. The dedicated team > takes 10 bugs and other developers another ~10. I think we would be > much better off if each team at the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 4:36 AM John Erling Blad wrote: > Google had a problem with unfixed bugs, and they started identifying > the involved developers each time the build was broken. That is pretty > harsh, but what if devs somehow was named when their bugs were > mentioned? What if there were

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Thu, 2019-03-14 at 15:50 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > Yes, there should always be a response to all bugs. Without a response > the impression in the reporting wiki-community would be "nobody cares > about our bug reports". > > Someone in the community finds a bug, and it is posted and

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, March 14, 2019 3:56 PM, David Barratt wrote: > Is the Wikimedia Foundation responsible for people's emotions? Yes. Frustration, mostly. It is not entirely unexpected that this message originates from @wikimedia.org.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Is the Wikimedia Foundation responsible for people's emotions? On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:51 AM John Erling Blad wrote: > Yes, there should always be a response to all bugs. Without a response > the impression in the reporting wiki-community would be "nobody cares > about our bug reports". > >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Yes, there should always be a response to all bugs. Without a response the impression in the reporting wiki-community would be "nobody cares about our bug reports". Someone in the community finds a bug, and it is posted and discussed in the community. Then another one writes a report in a task at

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Sorry, but I try to point out that the process is broken and give a few examples on how to fix the process. On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 1:20 PM Andre Klapper wrote: > > On Thu, 2019-03-14 at 12:35 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > > Blame games does not fix faulty processes. > > Hmm, why is this

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 00:29 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > It seems like some projects simply put everything coming from external > sources into deep freezer or add "need volunteer". If they respond at > all. In some cases it could be that the projects are defunc. What's the expectation based

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Thu, 2019-03-14 at 12:35 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > Blame games does not fix faulty processes. Hmm, why is this thread called "Question to WMF" instead of "Question to developers"? > Why do we have bugs that isn't handled for years? Basically: Because you did not fix these bugs. Longer

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Blame games does not fix faulty processes. You fix a sinkhole by figuring out where the water comes from and where it goes. Why do we have bugs that isn't handled for years? Why is it easier to get a new feature than fixing an old bug? Google had a problem with unfixed bugs, and they started

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

În joi, 14 mar. 2019 la 01:02, Amir Sarabadani a scris: > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:02 PM Strainu wrote: > > > - ContentTranslation v1 (obsolete now, has been unmaintained for 2 > > years while in production) > > - UploadWizard (2 with high priority, 40 with normal, a few dozens > > low,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hopefully I can say this in a way that is mutually acceptable. For me this discussion is difficult but enlightening. I think that this is the most difficult Wikimedia discussion in which I have been a participant so far this year. I don't know what agreements will emerge from this thread, if any.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:02 PM Strainu wrote: > - ContentTranslation v1 (obsolete now, has been unmaintained for 2 > years while in production) > - UploadWizard (2 with high priority, 40 with normal, a few dozens > low, hundreds more untriaged): this is the project that got us out of > the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Wed, 2019-03-13 at 21:01 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > This is like an enormous sinkhole, with people standing on the edge, > warning about the sinkhole. All around people are saying "we must do > something"! Still the sinkhole slowly grows larger and larger. People > placing warning signs

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Wow, this thread has become quite huge (which is a good problem to have!). Trying to repond to a few messages in a single email. În dum., 10 mar. 2019 la 01:23, Dan Garry (Deskana) a scris: > I'm confused by this. I didn't mention volunteer teams taking over projects > at all, and I don't think

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

John, Multiple people on this thread have pointed out that you are not giving specifics bugs that are being ignored by WMF (and should not be). Can you provide some examples? Chico Venancio Em qua, 13 de mar de 2019 às 17:01, John Erling Blad escreveu: > This is like an enormous sinkhole,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

This is like an enormous sinkhole, with people standing on the edge, warning about the sinkhole. All around people are saying "we must do something"! Still the sinkhole slowly grows larger and larger. People placing warning signs "Sinkhole ahead". Others notifying neighbors about the growing

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Fri, 2019-03-08 at 13:31 +0100, John Erling Blad wrote: > The backlog for bugs are pretty large (that is an understatement), > even for bugs with know fixes and available patches On tickets in general (not: patches) and their prioritization, I wrote

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

What frustrates me the most are - bugs found by the editor community, that has obvious simple fixes, which isn't acted upon for several years - new features that isn't fully tested, and you have to answer in the community about stuff you rather want to throw out - new features and changes that

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 10:29 PM Bartosz Dziewoński wrote: > > I get an impression from this thread that the problem is not really the > size of the backlog, but rather certain individual tasks that sit in > said backlog rather than being worked on, and which according to John > are actually

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hi! > 1. My impression is that there's agreement that there is a huge backlog. Obviously, there is a backlog. As for it being "huge", it's subjective, for someone who has experience with long-running projects, having thousands of issues in the bug tracker is nothing out of the ordinary. Does it

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Andre, good points, thanks. I think that this ties in with my comments regarding having a common situational awareness. I don't think that I have good situational awareness regarding the state of the backlog, the composition of the backlog, etc. I'm confident that there is a backlog and that there

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

I get an impression from this thread that the problem is not really the size of the backlog, but rather certain individual tasks that sit in said backlog rather than being worked on, and which according to John are actually major issues. It's hard to disagree or agree with this without

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 20:34 +, Pine W wrote: > > 1. My impression is that there's agreement that there is a huge backlog. Phabricator is public. Anyone can propose and report anything. Hence the number of ideas, bugs, feature requests is usually higher than the number of available developers

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> > I think that there's consensus that the backlog is a problem. > For whom is the backlog a problem? On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:36 PM Pine W wrote: > I'm going to make a few points that I think will respond to some comments > that I've read, and I will try to organize some of my previous

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

I'm going to make a few points that I think will respond to some comments that I've read, and I will try to organize some of my previous points so that they're easier to follow. 1. My impression is that there's agreement that there is a huge backlog. 2. I think that there's consensus that the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Regardless of definition-related issues, I concur editors' most shared/fundamental needs deserve being addressed spending some money. Vito Il giorno mar 12 mar 2019 alle ore 11:50 John Erling Blad ha scritto: > Without the editors there would be no content, and thus no readers, > and without

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Without the editors there would be no content, and thus no readers, and without readers there would be no use for the software provided. So is the actual users subsidizing the software? Definitely yes! The content is the primary reason why we have readers. The software is just a tool to provide

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

A customer, by definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer) exchanges something of value (money) for a product or service. That does not mean that a freemium model ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemium) is not a valid business model. However, if there is no exchange of value, the person

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> 2- Everything is open-source and as non-profit, there's always resource > constraint. If it's really important to you, feel free to make a patch and > the team would be always more than happy to review. Wikipedia is the core product, and the users are the primary customers. When a group of core

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

It seems like some projects simply put everything coming from external sources into deep freezer or add "need volunteer". If they respond at all. In some cases it could be that the projects are defunc. On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 9:51 PM Stas Malyshev wrote: > > Hi! > > > In my experience WMF teams

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hi! > In my experience WMF teams usually have a way to distinguish "bugs we're > going to work on soon" and "bugs we're not planning to work on, but we'd > accept patches". This is usually public in Phabricator, but not really > documented. There's the "Need volunteer" tag that I think can be

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On 2019-03-09 12:25, Strainu wrote: The discussion athttps://lists.gt.net/wiki/wikitech/889489 is relevant, I believe. The request there was to not decline low-priority issues that might be resolved by volunteers and this clearly increases the number of open bugs (as I said, there are good

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> > Most development work is done by volunteers According to https://wikimedia.biterg.io/ that does not appear to be the case. Or is there some other metric that is more accurate? On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 6:33 PM Zppix wrote: > To blame WMF for having a huge backlog is wrong imho. Most

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

To blame WMF for having a huge backlog is wrong imho. Most development work is done by volunteers, and while I do believe more can be done from both sides but blaming it all on WMF is wrong. -- Devin “Zppix” CCENT Volunteer Wikimedia Developer Africa Wikimedia Developers Member and Mentor

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Re reading this now on the ground in Austin, reminds me not to send emails in a hurry from an airplane! So trying again - hopefully more grammatically sound this time! The Tech Engagement team (which includes Wikimedia Cloud Services) in the Tech department is investing in a developer advocacy

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Also, the Tech team at the Foundation is investing in Technical Engagement team who I hope will be (amongst other things) become advocates for the tech debt that affects our communities. Best regards, Victoria Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 9, 2019, at 6:28 PM, bawolff wrote: > > Regarding:

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Regarding: >My proposal is to begin the discussion here: how can we better relay issues >that are more important to communities than new features? How can we have a >"community whishlist for bugs"? Well fundamentally it starts with making a list. This is basically a lobbying discussion right.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Strainu, I, too, am glad for the discussion! On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 22:31, Strainu wrote: > Let me start with a simple question, to put the references to wmf into > context. You keep talking below about volunteer developers and how they can > take over any project. I'm confused by this. I

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

This discussion touches on a number of my frustrations. If someone is in a bad mood then they might want to postpone reading my comments below. As far as I know, WMF wants to advertise itself as being a provider of infrastructure for fundraising purposes, and wants to exercise absolute power over

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 11:26, Strainu wrote: > How many successful commercial projects leave customer issues unresolved > for years because they're working on something else now? > Almost all of them, they just keep it secret. Companies pay millions of dollars each year for support packages,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Pe vineri, 8 martie 2019, bawolff a scris: > "tracked" does not mean someone is planning to work on it. This could be > for a lot of reasons, maybe the bug is unclear, maybe its not obvious what > a good way to fix is, maybe nobody cares (This sounds harsh, but the simple > truth is, different

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

"tracked" does not mean someone is planning to work on it. This could be for a lot of reasons, maybe the bug is unclear, maybe its not obvious what a good way to fix is, maybe nobody cares (This sounds harsh, but the simple truth is, different things have different people caring about them, and

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> Also should be on the list: Sometimes bugs have a known fix that isn't > being rolled out, in favour of a larger more fundamental restructuring > (demanding even more resources). Yes, I've seen a lot of cookie licking. It makes it hard to solve even simple bugs.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 18:04, Strainu wrote: > Several things: > * the bug backlog has been steadily increasing in all phabricator reports I > have seen (I don't read them all, so some decreases might have occurred > occasionally, but the trend is there) > * feature development is prioritized

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Fri, 2019-03-08 at 20:03 +0200, Strainu wrote: > * after Andre stopped being bug wrangler {{Citation needed}} andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Pe vineri, 8 martie 2019, Amir Sarabadani a scris: > Hey, > I'm not WMF so I'm not the best one to answer the question but I think your > statement is overgeneralizing. Some teams have more resource constraints > than the other ones and treating all of WMF as a big monolith doesn't seem > to be

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

> > So if only wikiworld were for profit, then it wouldn't be > resource-constrained? > You don't have to be for-profit to have a self-sustaining business model. But you do have to have a problem (or a need), with a solution, that customers are willing to pay for to solve. Even if you give the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:04 AM Amir Sarabadani wrote: " Everything is open-source and as non-profit, there's always resource constraint." So if only wikiworld were for profit, then it wouldn't be resource-constrained? Therein could lie the solution of all problems, not just those of wikiworld.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs

Hey, I'm not WMF so I'm not the best one to answer the question but I think your statement is overgeneralizing. Some teams have more resource constraints than the other ones and treating all of WMF as a big monolith doesn't seem to be a good approach. I think you should be more precise and give a