The hummingbird doing aileron rolls chasing a bug is neat!!! This is
beautiful...be sure and watch closely (around 2 min 40 sec) and check out
the baby bat under its mama. Unreal Monarchs!
Some of the finest photography I have ever seen.
so buddha is some dude who is born into the upper crust of society.
.decides it's not the way to go..sets out to find the way..then makes the
way known to others who have lost the way.
.same old story repeated by christ...though with buddha he could always go back
to the rich life if looking
bill..artists can be logical too... logic plays a big part in my art...merle
Everyone,
I try to communicate with people on this forum in the way I think would be best
to reach them. In Zen that's called 'skillful means'. I sometimes refer to it
as 'using all the tools in my toolbox'.
I
bill do not make it up..what you think these words mean ... use a
dictionary...merle
Edgar,
Below you asked: What do you think illusory actually means?, and that is
exactly what I dreamed about last night and was prepared to explain to you this
morning. I do think part, but not all, of
enlightenment is as slippery as an eel..merle
Will the one and only true Buddha Nature please stand up!
--ED
Web definitions
* Buddha-nature or Buddha Principle (Buddha-dhâtu), is taught, within
Mahayana Buddhism, to be an intrinsic, immortal potential for reaching
enlightenment
so buddha is some dude who is born into the upper crust of society.
.decides it's not the way to go..sets out to find the way..then makes the
way known to others who have lost the way.
.same old story repeated by christ...though with buddha he could always go back
to the rich life if
try being a christian... it will ease the pain...merle
Kris,
This takes no effort.
Ultimately, yes - in day to day living, no. At least not in the story of my
life. It's so easy to claim Buddhahood when things are going well, but just
watch that little house of cards coming crashing down
Anthony,
I communicate with Ben Bernanke by practicing quantitative easing. I
communicate with you by practicing qualitative easing..Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote:
Bill!,
Â
How do you communicate with Ben Benanke, who, like you say, is a good
Edgar, Edgar, Edgar...
Qualities to not evolve for a purpose. That would be engineering, not
evolution. New qualities appear primarily by random mutation. If the quality
is advantageous (gives the organism an advantage over competing organisms) or
at least is not a disadvantage it is likely
Edgar,
I've yet to see a set of succinct definitions of what you mean by 'reality' and
'illusions'. How about taking the list I posted and tell us what your
definitions are?
And try to keep the definitions to a couple sentences.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen
JMJM,
Well you have succeeded, at least with me. I often times think you are so
wishy-washy you are nobody...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ chan.jmjm@... wrote:
Hi Bill,
You are still trying to show me that you are somebody. Sorry.
I have come to
Bill! liked the words and didn't pay much attention to the girl...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
PS: Bill! just likes her because she's so skinny her pants are about to fall
off!
:-)
Edgar
On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Merle,
There is no inner and outer world. There is no third eye.
There is Just THIS!
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
 i disagree bill there is the inner world and the outer world..open your
third eye!...merle
Â
Merle,
JMJM,
How do you think what you call the state of 'Janan' compares with what zen
literature calls 'Buddha Nature' (or Original Face, etc..)?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ chan.jmjm@... wrote:
Ah, yes Merle. What else is there? :-)
It would be perfect,
Logic plays a big part in engineering, not art...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
 bill..artists can be logical too... logic plays a big part in my art...merle
Â
Everyone,
I try to communicate with people on this forum in the way I think
Merle,
What do you use as a guide and reference when you paint?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
bill do not make it up..what you think these words mean ... use a
dictionary...merle
Â
Edgar,
Below you asked: What do you think
Merle,
Am I an atheist? Depends on the definition of God. The Biblical God clearly
does NOT exist, nor do all the Buddhist Gods. These are all make believe
stories from the childhood of humanity.
I define God as the universe itself. That way God clearly DOES exist. There can
be no argument
Merle,
Being a Christian may temporarily ease some types of suffering but since it is
DELUSION it will only lead to more suffering in the end...
It's like your mom and dad telling you everything is OK when it isn't
Christianity is the biggest scam on the planet because it promises
Bill!,
Yes I understand all that fine but purpose does not imply a goal, it has to do
with function.
The purpose of the heart is to pump blood through the body thus sustaining life.
However I really don't want to get into arguing over biology on this group. I
do plenty of that on other groups
Edgar,
Merle prefers dictionary definitions...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Merle,
Am I an atheist? Depends on the definition of God. The Biblical God clearly
does NOT exist, nor do all the Buddhist Gods. These are all make believe
stories from
Edgar,
I'm very happy to drop this thread, but I didn't see it as a thread focusing on
biology or even evolution. If it is then yes, it belongs in some other forum.
However, since I ASSUME that on this Zen Forum that everything someone posts
has something to do with zen, or their idea of zen,
Merle,
Yes, absolutely. But don't take my word for it - it's available to anyone
regardless of race, sex, age or belief system etc. People were doing it long
before the Buddha, but he used the state to a) calm the mind b) to really
inquire deeply into bodily sensation and its effect on the
Bill!
Realty is what exists in the present moment. It includes Buddha Nature and
everything including all the forms and any illusions that exist in the present
moment by manifesting Buddha Nature. But the fundamental reality of all these
forms is Buddha Nature only.
Illusions are the
Bill!,
That's nonsense as any, or at least most, practicing artists will tell you...
Good art requires enormous technical mastery which involves long study and a
deep rational understanding..
Edgar
On Sep 7, 2012, at 4:58 AM, billsmart wrote:
Logic plays a big part in engineering, not
rubbish bill
.i would not say that to cezanne, mondrian kandinsky etc .,,just a few artists.
..check cubist theories might give you some insight
.please check facts before making outlandish one off remarks that are highly
emotional and totally illogical..merle
Logic plays a big part in
sometimes the eel must be caught as it is the only source of food...be it for
the body or the soul...merle
Merle,
An eel only seems slippery to one who tries to grasp and hold onto it.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
enlightenment is
Bill!,
Exactly, because all the seeming qualities and self substances of things are
actually just qualia in minds. Illusory in the sense that they are not part of
the external reality of those things. When all these qualia are subtracted from
things all that remains and actually exists is
insight, feelings, thoughts and dare i say LOGIC.. merle
Merle,
What do you use as a guide and reference when you paint?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
bill do not make it up..what you think these words mean ... use a
Merle,
There is a *big* difference between these stories of Buddha and Christ. With
Buddha's story it makes no difference whether you believe Buddha was a real man
or not. It's the teachings that are important because they gel with our real
existence in this life. Personally, I believe the
Merle,
For me, being a Christian is akin to putting a plaster on an amputee's wound.
Buddhism gets right into the causes of emotional pain which causes suffering.
It's really more of a scientific study of the how the mind works, rather than a
faith-religion. Just believing something with no
thank you mike...i see
..i ask how does the parents of a disabled child come to terms with
suffering.? buddha style?
..jesus still had to suffer...
...he shared man's journey
...jesus was god...so it is said..
.now we get into the curly bit..
. if god create man in his own image...and free
Bill!,
Not sure what JM would say here, but jhanas and Buddha Nature are 2 different
things altogether. It's the insight wisdom brought about by vipassana (seeing
things as they really are) that manifests Buddha Nature. Vipassana in the
jhanic state is helpful because the hindrances that stop
so you are not an atheist edgar?.
.i remember when you were hammering nils in the other group.
.hammer and tongs about god..why oh why did you not say it like it is to him?
you betcha...
it is so just as you have outlined
merle
Merle,
Am I an atheist? Depends on the definition of
Edgar,
The operative word here is 'big'. Logic does not plays a 'big' part in
engineering. Logic does not play a 'big' part in art. I didn't say it doesn't
play any part.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill!,
That's nonsense as any, or at
Merle,
Very good. Those are exactly the things I use when I write. I don't
cross-check every word I use with a dictionary (reference). I don't need to do
that.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
 insight, feelings, thoughts and dare i say
Edgar,
Thanks for this post. I read it over hastily but will read it over more
thoroughly in the [my] morning, and will respond as appropriate.
Good Night...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill!
Realty is what exists in the present moment. It
Merle and Edgar,
Before I chuck it in for the night I thought I'd go to Merle's suggested Source
of all Truth - the dictionary.
Here are the definitions of 'art' and 'engineering' copied from Merriam-Webster
Online. I trust you'll accept these definitions without smearing them with
labels of
Let's drop this non Zen thread too. OK?
Edgar
On Sep 7, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar,
The operative word here is 'big'. Logic does not plays a 'big' part in
engineering. Logic does not play a 'big' part in art. I didn't say it
doesn't play any part.
...Bill!
--- In
Bill and Merle,
If I must, my definition of art, as a long time art dealer among other things,
is a work in which the form rather than the function is emphasized.
From my site at http://EdgarLOwen.info
ORIGINS: The concept of art is a human invention, therefore it is possible to
define art in
Morning Bill,
As you know, I did not read zen literature and not familiar with zen
terms. I had only one teacher who happens to be the patriarch of Chan.
He taught me the following:
1. when we sit on the cushion, try to practice just this ala Bill!
2. when we focus hard and long we will
Our particular 'mutation' being this business of thinking that some
appearances are random, some purposeful. Some advantageous, some
disadvantageous - while thinking them so is so is clearly not a matter
of either or but both/and- simply a matter of how this appears.
KG
On 9/7/2012 4:34 AM,
Correction: 5. when we enjoy life, just let our heart shine through,
ala Merle. :-) Thank you all for your teaching.
On 9/7/2012 7:29 AM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote:
Morning Bill,
As you know, I did not read zen literature and not familiar with zen
terms. I had only one teacher who happens to be
On 9/7/2012 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Christianity is the biggest scam on the planet because it promises
everything and delivers nothing!
All appears so, when one seeks from other.
KG
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or
Or realizing this to be the dragon, one is consumed by it's fire...
KG
On 9/7/2012 7:37 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
sometimes the eel must be caught as it is the only source of
food...be it for the body or the soul...merle
Merle,
An eel only seems slippery to one who tries to grasp and hold
On 9/7/2012 7:39 AM, mike brown wrote:
There is a *big* difference between these stories of Buddha and
Christ. With Buddha's story it makes no difference whether you believe
Buddha was a real man or not...
So one you accept more readily because you believe it to likely be
allegorical, the
Well I don't find much utility in this particular definition; the function of
art may not be known precisely, but it surely has to do with things such as
conveying some communication of the interestingness of life from one human to
another.
I encourage my kids to make art when feelings too
On 9/7/2012 7:51 AM, mike brown wrote:
For me, being a Christian is akin to putting a plaster on an amputee's
wound. Buddhism gets right into the causes of emotional pain which
causes suffering.
As the story goes, the second patriarch of Zen, when his arm had been
cut off by attackers, stop
On 9/7/2012 7:55 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Is this suffering going to be remedied by looking into the cause and
then working thru it.. or by telling myself Jesus was born of a
virgin? It's a no-brainer.
Yet you apply your mind to it as if it were. ;)
Original mind is unborn, undying. Christ is
Kristopher,
Correction: Edgar Owen did NOT write those words you quote as his and respond
to...
Edgar
On Sep 7, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
On 9/7/2012 7:55 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Is this suffering going to be remedied by looking into the cause and then
working thru it..
Correct Edgar! Finally, truth appears!
Apologies for the sloppy edit (though I doubt any would mistake those
for your words).
KG
On 9/7/2012 1:11 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Kristopher,
Correction: Edgar Owen did NOT write those words you quote as his and
respond to...
Edgar
On Sep 7,
KG. how well you put this..congratulations...!..merle
Original mind is unborn, undying. Christ is
unborn, undying.
In the story Gautama was the name of a man,
Buddha is an expression of realization.
In the story Jesus was the name of a
christianity delivers hope and universal love.
the teachings are profound and deep
open your heart..and let the sun shine in!
merle
On 9/7/2012 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Christianity is the biggest scam on the planet because it promises
everything and delivers nothing!
All appears so,
i love order bill.
... that's logic in play..
. are you telling me you have changed your mind now..?
. logic is part and parcel of any human endeavour
we live in an ordered world
what planet are you coming from?...merle
Edgar,
The operative word here is 'big'. Logic does not
Bill!,
Wise choice, because money always prevails over quality.
Anthony
From: Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 7 September 2012, 16:16
Subject: Re: [Zen] Bill!'s Posts to Edgar
Anthony,
I communicate with Ben
bill..do you know anything about art?...merle
Merle,
My remarks were not outlandish nor emotional or illogical.
My remarks were my opinion based on my experience.
What 'facts' do you think I should check? Should I have checked someone else's
opinion before I expressed mine?
...Bill!
edgar..why are you playing word games with nils then?
why are you so anti supernatural?
what is supernatural today maybe reality tomorrow
think about it
tried astra travelling recently?
merle
Merle,
Am I an atheist? Depends on the definition of God. The Biblical God clearly
does NOT
Madness:
Anandamayi Ma - would be found rolling around on the floor of her kitchen while
the food she was preparing burned. For a long time she only ate 9 grains of
rice
a day.
Ramana Maharshi - became so oblivious of his body the he didn't wash, his hair
grew matted, his finger nails
and killing people for a cause is not madness...? merle
Madness:
Anandamayi Ma - would be found rolling around on the floor of her kitchen while
the food she was preparing burned. For a long time she only ate 9 grains of
rice a day.
Ramana Maharshi - became so oblivious of his
Merle:
I'm not sure why you are asking that. One of my biggest problems with this
email group is the time delay between posts and responses.
My original question was : is madness a precursor to enlightenment?
To which Bill! responded : That depends on how you define 'madness'.
So I
Beautiful stuff Merle
Bill
Find what makes your heart sing…and do it!
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 7, 2012 2:07:38 AM
Subject: [Zen] The Beauty of Pollination
what evermerle
This is in reply to your post Merle about primary and secondary functions of
the body.
Who is the boss
When the body was first made, all the parts wanted to be the boss.
The brain said, since I control everything and do all the thinking, I should
be the boss.
The
Edgar,
I got up this morning, had a cup of tea and settled in to watch CNN 360 when a
neighbor had an emergency which captured my attention so I am just now able to
attend to your post.
I'm feeling very generous this morning so I will forgo the usual 'tough love'
and concentrate instead on
Edgar,
I will not originate any more posts on this topic, but will respond to posts if
asked or if I feel that a response is called for.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Let's drop this non Zen thread too. OK?
Edgar
On Sep 7, 2012, at 8:03
Edgar,
I thought you wanted to drop this thread.
Did that mean you just wanted ME to drop the thread, or was that to apply to
you also?..Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill and Merle,
If I must, my definition of art, as a long time art dealer among
Edgar,
I use 'Just THIS!'...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 9/7/2012 6:43 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Anyone have a better pronoun for God?
Historically, proverbs have been used.
KG
Current Book Discussion:
what a mouthful...all about what is real and what is not..jesus... what till
dementia gets ya..what's real then?..merle
Edgar,
I got up this morning, had a cup of tea and settled in to watch CNN 360 when a
neighbor had an emergency which captured my attention so I am just now able to
Kris,
All will be delivered tomorrow...the check's on the way...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 9/7/2012 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Christianity is the biggest scam on the planet because it promises
everything and delivers nothing!
All appears
what check..money money money...makes you funny..abba song
merle
Kris,
All will be delivered tomorrow...the check's on the way...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 9/7/2012 6:57 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Christianity is the biggest scam on the
Kris,
More important than whether or not either of these personages actually existed
or how accurate the [translated] 3rd-person accounts of what they did and what
they said is that YOU EXPERIENCE what they are said to have experienced.
And you can do that. I'm confident 10's of thousands or
Merle,
My comments in the parts of you post that refer to me are below:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
...bill...you have the dictionary definition of art..yet you fail to see
there is any logic in this definition..strange...Â
[Bill!] What other
Merle,
Christianity also conducted 20 or more crusades into the lands controlled by
Islamic people that were responsible for countless horrors in the name of Jesus
and 'universal love'.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
christianity
Merle,
Good post and question. My response is embedded below:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
i love order bill.
... that's logic in play..
[Bill!] Yes Merle, I love it too. My entire professional career is based on
developing and applying logic.
right bill... you win if that is the game...whatever...
merle
Merle,
My comments in the parts of you post that refer to me are below:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
...bill...you have the dictionary definition of art..yet you fail to see
there
Yes, sadly that's the way it seems...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote:
Bill!,
Â
Wise choice, because money always prevails over quality.
Â
Anthony
From: Bill! BillSmart@...
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
so did the atheists... and the so called buddhist countries are good at mass
slaughter too..what's your point?..merle
Merle,
Christianity also conducted 20 or more crusades into the lands controlled by
Islamic people that were responsible for countless horrors in the name of Jesus
Merle,
Why do you ask?
I don't need to know anything about art myself as long as I can look it up in a
dictionary, do I? At least that's what you implied when you rejected
out-of-hand my definitions of the way I used certain zen-related terms and
instead directed me to a dictionary.
More or less, misses the point again.
There is nothing to do to realize this. There is only this experiencing.
'You' and your 'experience(s)' of objects/events are but aspects of
this, arising and passing. Nothing could be simpler.
Some realize this some don't. Doesn't change this. How could
Bill,
I agree with your conclusion, but what's your point? I do remember some
discussion on madness vis-a-vis 'enlightenment', but what specifically are you
implying here? That 'enlightened' people would be considered mad by 'normal'
society?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,
bill..bill bill..why must we argue?..i am me and you are you.
.. you are the zen of zen since you have been zenning for so long you have
forgotten to forget the rules.
.cos from what i gather there are no rules..and none in art either...artists
are free to do what they will
how much of your
Merle,
Be careful! Remember the Holy Christian Crusades! Their purpose was
essentially to return the Holy City of Jerusalem to Christian control. And
that cause a lot of killing on both sides.
You wouldn't want to get accused of Blasphemy now, would you?
...Bill!
--- In
Chris,
Good question! I won't respond other than that because I know you already know
the answer, and the remedy...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote:
Why is it so easy to know the oneness of all in the forest and so hard to
know it back in the family
On 9/8/2012 12:41 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
right bill... you win if that is the game...whatever...
merle
He can't win (or lose) as he never stops playing! If he does, he won't
be able pay himself off. *L*
Perhaps Bill! knows to much about zen to realize don't know'. Edgar
might know
who me...for christ sake!..ill answer to godmyself..
i do not need you of all people to point it out!..merle
Merle,
Be careful! Remember the Holy Christian Crusades! Their purpose was
essentially to return the Holy City of Jerusalem to Christian control. And
that cause a lot of
Everyone,
I just wanted everyone to know that we have many members on this form from all
over the world. I live in Thailand. Merle lives in Australia and Anthony
lives in Singapore (I think). Most of you do live in the USA.
The good part about all this is we get a GREAT cross-section of
bill you are the moderator or edgar?..merle
Everyone,
I just wanted everyone to know that we have many members on this form from all
over the world. I live in Thailand. Merle lives in Australia and Anthony
lives in Singapore (I think). Most of you do live in the USA.
The good part
Merle,
This post was directed primarily to Edgar. He and I like to discuss such
things.
None of this is really important or a pre-requisite to zen practice.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
 what a mouthful...all about what is real and
'Christianity' doesn't commit atrocities, or kindnesses. People do.
Regardless of what they call themselves, the ones who commit atrocities
are the one who think as divisively and with as much certainty regarding
others as as you do below.
Right marches on.
KG
On 9/8/2012 12:32 AM, Bill!
Merle,
Oh yeah. I forgot that you don't 'do' metaphors very well.
What I really said was: Christianity is all about 'being good' because you
fear punishment or hope for a reward. Both the punishment (Hell) and reward
(Heaven) are levied on you at sometime in the future (Judgement Day).
So
Merle,
My point (and what my point usually is on posts like this) is to show the other
side.
Christianity does not just inspire hope and love. It is also generates despair
and hate.
Being a 'mandala' person your 'third eye' should recognize this as Yin/Yang.
...Bill!
--- In
Kris,
When you say it I prefer 'Suchness'.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
More or less, misses the point again.
There is nothing to do to realize this. There is only this experiencing.
'You' and your 'experience(s)' of objects/events are but
Trained as a product designer, who's function largely lies at the 'crux'
of the matter, this art/logic discussion is too damn funny. I've done
enough translating and peacemaking between 'creative types' and
'logical/linear thinkers', no need to do it here.
Y'all jus' keep gropin' 'roun' on
Merle,
We don't need to argue. I don't think of most of these posts as
'arguing' as I do 'discussions'. Just because I disagree with you and
state my opposing position doesn't mean (to me) that I'm 'arguing' with
you.
I don't 'Google', I 'Bing'. (This is not meant to be an augmentative
Merle,
Edgar and I are Co-Moderators. A guy named Al is the 'Owner' of the Yahoo! Zen
Forum. He doesn't participate here much now and basically handed it all over
to Edgar and me.
Al and I also have created and Co-Moderate the Zen Forum on Facebook.
...Bill!
--- In
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