Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On 2/7/06, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. This is new different platform, based on Zope ideas but with absolutely different code bases Indeed. This is why I think that if a proper moniker (e.g. Zope3 Zimba) would be better. No, it would only make people go What, first Zope 2, then Zope 3, now Zope Zimba? thinking it's three different things. But always writing it Zope3 might be helpful. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Local Component Management Simplification
On Monday 06 February 2006 12:33, Dieter Maurer wrote: No it is not. Explicit is better then implicit. declareSite creates a new site in the sites mapping. We use this pattern for layers and skins already. If it *creates* something why itn't its name createSite (rather than declareSite). As I said, the names were not set in stone. FRom my understanding of English both are fine. And what does site as it apparently does not create nor declare a site? It declares that all the configuration elements inside it are configuration elements of this site. I originally wanted to add a new attribute to configure called site, but then I do not want to make configure the place where we put all things that provide wrapper behavior. On the other hand, defining the site of application is so fundamental that we should place it there. So based on your suggestions: createSite name=mysite ... configure xmlns=http://namespaces.zope.org/zope; i18n_domain=zope site=mysite ... /configure Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Lennart Regebro wrote: On 2/7/06, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it would only make people go What, first Zope 2, then Zope 3, now Zope Zimba? thinking it's three different things. But always writing it Zope3 might be helpful. Telling that there is a difference between Zope 2 and Zope 3 is difficult without actually doing *something* Zope 3 vs Zope3 is a search engine optimisation, and doesn't comunicate anything. It is not as if it hasn't been done for Zope 2 either: Results 1 - 10 of about 293,000 for zope2. (0.20 seconds) Naturally you can tell the difference between 2 and 3 with just a lot of communication. But I believe that a Zope surname will help make the point. To bad that Zope Zen has been used. others from a brief brainstorm: - Zope Zulu - Zope Zone - Zope Spin - Zope Revolution - Zope Shift - Zope Nascence - Zope Transfer - Zope Realize - Zope Works - Zope NG - Zope NT - Zope DR - Zope XP Home edition -- hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark http://www.mxm.dk/ IT's Mad Science ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Broken homefolder tests
On Monday 06 February 2006 19:18, Roger Ineichen wrote: Does somebody know if there is a method for check if a teardown get called after a test? Some hints? No, this is usually painful tracking down. You could check for test setup code that assigns AttributeAnnotatable to File. Also note that there is no good way for tearing down classImplements() statements. So this issue potentially exists in many places. I think for now it would be okay to add the declaration to the test setup. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Local Component Management Simplification
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 00:31, suresh wrote: No it is not. Explicit is better then implicit. declareSite creates a new site in the sites mapping. We use this pattern for layers and skins already. Can you have site... directives without a corresponding declareSite...? What would that achieve? Probably not. In this case the site name=foo directive would raise an exception saying that no site with name foo exists. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
On Monday 06 February 2006 20:49, Gary Poster wrote: How about we have a marketing competition? :-) +1 from me plus everything else you said below. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Stephan Richter wrote: On Monday 06 February 2006 20:49, Gary Poster wrote: How about we have a marketing competition? :-) +1 from me plus everything else you said below. Yep, it's a good idea. --Paul ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Nine new ZC Zope 3 packages
Gary Poster wrote: [snip a few things that we think would be nice and useful for the packages] Sure. I'd love to. I'm happy if I at least get the stuff open- sourced, though. Life is full of compromises. I understand the spirit in which these were donated to the community, and it's appreciated. Note that I'm in the same state with the 'hurry' package; it's also sitting off in an svn repository somewhere without a release. I just wanted to start talking about the next step to make the status of these packages more clear. Stephan and I have been talking, and he has a lot of ideas about how to start managing this, so I'll wait for his proposal and comment on that. [snip questions on how to install these packages] Sure, if you like. I'm cool with whatever, as long as it doesn't add too much ceremony to actually open-sourcing our code. For those watching at home, one obvious alternative for UNIX-based systems is symlinks; less obvious but cross-platform alternative is using pkgutil.extend_path from the standard library. I'm concerned about those developers, or system administrators later on, who unlike you and me, do not have the patience to figure it out for themselves. I'm not cool with whatever myself, as I will need to explain it to others and I'd prefer a single obvious way to do it in that case. I'm also worried about putting non-core packages into the namespace 'zope'. It's unclear what ZC's policy is in this; some packages are in the 'zope' namespace, other packages are in 'zc'. And not only ZC is adding things to the 'zope' namespace; there's zope.paste, for instance. We don't have a policy, we have intelligence guided by experience, since we've never done anything like this before. Okay, so then we're free to make up a policy for the future. :) Note that Jim wants to make the zope package in the repository smaller, and divide up the zope namespace into separate projects that can be knit together. We don't know how this will work yet, which is what conversations like yours will hopefully suss out. Exactly. FWIW, right now generally the zope namespace for us includes things that we (a) know from the beginning that we want to open-source, and (b) are fundamental, things that in the past we would have just added to the repo because we would have been confident that the world wanted them as part of Zope. Maybe we'll do zc packages exclusively from now on. That'll make it a bit more consistent, which is good. I saw that the new zc packages appear to all have a 'src' directory which contains the code itself - that's a good consistency. We can put README.txt, dependency information and setup.py and the like in the outer package eventually. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Selecting a code name
Hi there, Just to drop a note that I think a discussion about a potential brand name for Zope 3 is far less important than actually fixing our website and presenting Zope 3 (and Zope 2 for that matter) in a better way. Perhaps we can better redirect our energies to that than to have long (but easy, as everybody can say something without having to do anything) discussions about something that in the end isn't going to matter that much. Zope 3 already has a recognized brand as a rewrite of Zope 2 in the community - let's go with that. A brandname won't help us a bit if we don't do anything with it to present it properly, so the website is primary again there too. If we suddenly all start to talk about Zope 3 Odyssey without updating our website I fear we'll end up looking like flailing around wildly to keep up instead, and confusing people more. If we do manage to build a new website and are a good way done with it, *then* is the time to discuss possible branding options. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Hi there, Gary Poster wrote: [competition] +1. I think the requirement to have enough people submitting is very important, though. No competition anounced unless we get some idea that we'll actually have enough competitors, otherwise we end up looking silly (what happened to the Zope marketing competition? oh, nobody showed up would make Zope marketing *worse*) Alternatively, we could use our energy to actually work together on a new website instead of competing. There's a zope-web mailing list, after all, so go and talk there. This would have my preference. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On 2/6/06, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guys ... from my reading of the z3-user discussion, there were two subtly
different things that came out:
- Have funky release codenames. Okay, good - makes it easier to talk
about Zope 3.2 vs. 3.3. However, I think this is secondary (by far) to ...
I think it's terrible. I say again, I think 3.2 and 3.3 are easy to
talk about. Well, the current version is 3.2. 3.3 is coming out this
spring and is likely to include foo.baz. We're hoping to get foo.bill
in for 3.4 later this year, but it depends on the usage patterns we
notice from some of the 3.1 deprecations
Well, the current version is Sarengeti. Olympus is coming out this
spring and is likely to include foo.bz. We're hoping to get foo.bill
in for Mushroom later this year, but it depends on the usage patterns
we notice from the Dustmop deprecations
I don't think the second message is any clearer.
- Have a *brand*. That means one name, a name that doesn't change. It
could just be Zope 3 with a capital 3, or it could be a more distinctive
name, e.g. Zope 3 Zomething (where Zomething is something to be decided)
to have an even more distinctive brand; a logo that has some punch, a
colour scheme, a web site with proper advocacy and some start-here
documentation and some quick tutorials.
A good brand name is good. Maybe to be proper with the Web 2.0
phenomenon, it should be 3Zopes.
Beyond that, I think that 'Zope 3' is a good looking set of characters
and can be a strong brand in and of itself. Just always, always,
always refer to it as Zope 3. It doesn't need to be Zope on Zydeco or
something like that. 'Zope 3' has a lot of strong brand potential.
It's crisp, it's clear, it builds on something established yet can
differentiate itself from it.
The secondary brand name (the Zomething in my example above) was the
original example - and I personally think this is a good idea, just to
give the clear message that this is distinct but building on Zope 2.
Zope 2 is seldom referred to as Zope 2. Zope 2.x maybe, but I seldom
notice it referred to as Zope 2, except now that Zope 3 is on the
scene. By just adding emphasis to the 3, and it doesn't even need to
be a strong emphasis, I think we can capture a lot.
A fancy name isn't going to give the message that this is distinct,
especially if the experience of finding out what Zope 3 is and how to
use it starts bringing back painful memories of prior Zopes, or starts
to mirror the stories people have heard about Zope - yeah, it's great
if you can figure it out... good luck figuring it out...
(alright, I'm a little cranky after losing a fight with trying to a do
what I thought was a simple multi-adapter registered with just an
'adapter factory=...' directive call in ZCML... damn thing wouldn't
use my publishTraverse and all I could do was scream and cry and
re-architect my solution because those browser directives did their
magic blessings of publishTraverse, call, and everything else and I
couldn't figure out how to do that on my own easily... augh..)
Seriously, look at http://www.djangoproject.com or http://rubyonrails.com.
This is about getting people to *understand* what Zope is about, to
understand that we *care* that they understand and that we made an
*effort* to make it easy for them to get into it. It's about lowering the
barrier to entry and the risk that they'll spend time learning something
that'll turn out to be a dead end. It's about showing off that Zope can be
sexy and knock the socks off the competition. It's about generating some
excitement, not just a dreary list of technical blather.
Yes! Exactly! You know, for all of the Django is wonderfully
Pythonic... it's for perfectionists... talk, I see a lot in its
core documentation that I think Zope 3 does better. Django does some
very impressive things, but glancing over documents like their Model
API:
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/model_api/
I see a lot of things that remind me of things that didn't scale well
conceptually in Principia/Zope - tuples and tuples of tuples
(including permissions, in the style of (('can_order_pizza', 'Can
Order Pizza'),) )! Those of us who remember building aggressively
large __ac_permissions__ structures also remember, if their
experiences are like mine, the difficulty of maintaining such lists -
is id or title the first element? Oops, I made a typo and did
'cant_order_pizza' and nothing caught it!, and so on.
zope.formlib and zope.schema really blow all of these other systems
away, I think. I think it's ridiculous that people are saying well, I
don't want to write an Interface but are fine with writing
``first_name = meta.CharField(maxlength=30)``. But in Zope 3.2, you
can't even get a list of zope.schema.* fields in apidoc easily! To
make up for it, there's *great* documentation about formlib, but it's
in the source.
Anyways, I'm sure this is all stuff that we can agree on.
I think the code-naming thing is silly. Names
Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.schema: defaults for non-immutables... questions
On Monday 06 February 2006 11:53, Shaun Cutts wrote: I've thought of several things I'd like to see in it The biggest would obviously be (optional) type checking of method calls, together with a more robust Method definition. Yes, there has been suggestions in this direction before. http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/MethodSpecification http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SpecificationUnification Obviously this might be a subject for zope.interface. Also it would be nice to have something like delegateImplementation( iface, cvar ) and delegateProvision( iface, ivar) to delegate the fulfillment of an interface to a class variable or an instance variable. I don't understand what you mean. But my overall question is: since zope.schema is generally useful for components, why is it separate from zope.interface? I can think of two answers: one, pragmatically, zope3 wants a stable zope.interface so the rest of the system can come up to speed. Thus we can think of schema as sort of like the __future__ version of zope.interface. Second, as schema came from abstracting away zope-like features from gui support, it is meant as proto-gui-support. Well, it is a matter of overhead. We don't feel that everyone needs zope.schema. See the twisted guys for example. I would argue that, though it does support some features that would be useful for a gui, it is more generally applicable to component-based programming. If you feel strongly about this, bring it up on the zope.interface mailing list. (I have been using it for-- among other things-- some souped-up database Rows, which support transparently some postgress-specific features. The extra introspection capabilities in zope.schema have been useful.) Yep, it is nice for RDB things. But maybe Jim resists changes because he has a more specific role in mind for zope.schema, and the development of zope.interface? You have to ask him and the zope.interface mailing list. :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:09, Jeff Shell wrote: Alright, I've stayed up way too late on this. Jeff, you always make great points! I would like to nominate you as the Zope 3 Propaganda Minister! :-) No seriously, you have a great way of explaining why Zope 3 is better than the latest hype; I think you are probably the best qualified to lead the marketing efforts? Are you willing? Anyone seconding me? :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] RFE: Ignore .svn directories when doing a Zope3 make install
On Sunday 05 February 2006 17:15, Craeg Strong wrote: Is there a way to provide an ignore pattern for the installation scripts? I don't think there is. Maybe bugging Fred directly might help. If someone can point me in the right direction to get started, I can provide a patch. Cool. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Selecting a code name
Stephan Richter wrote: Okay, I am giving in on this. There is a three step process that will have to be fullfilled to assign a codename to the Zope 3.3 release. Surely codenames are only really useful or meaningful for software that is going to be branded, but the marketing/branding teams haven't yet come up with the brand? You need some way to describe the project, so you use a codename until the real name and brand have been decided upon. We've already got Zope 3 .. I don't really see any need to start using codenames. Unless, of course, people just want to feel cool by saying I'm currently working on Glubberzortlet or whatever. rob ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Selecting a code name
Paul Winkler wrote: Mac OSX in itself, on the other hand, was brilliant. With one letter they managed to establish: [...] Right... but that is a brand, not a codename. As I understand it, people are discussing things like Tiger, and Panther, to follow your example. rob ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:09, Jeff Shell wrote: Alright, I've stayed up way too late on this. Jeff, you always make great points! I would like to nominate you as the Zope 3 Propaganda Minister! :-) No seriously, you have a great way of explaining why Zope 3 is better than the latest hype; I think you are probably the best qualified to lead the marketing efforts? Are you willing? Anyone seconding me? :-) +10! Jeffs postings are somewhat lengthy, but allways worth to be read :) Just curious - has anyone already thought about the ressource organization? Is there any place we can paste our marketing slogans into? Some repository which could host design proposals for the brand new Zope3 advocay site? Regards, Igor ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:42, Igor Stroh wrote: Just curious - has anyone already thought about the ressource organization? Is there any place we can paste our marketing slogans into? Some repository which could host design proposals for the brand new Zope3 advocay site? Join the zope-web mailing list. Martijn has started some materials collecting there. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Hj Jeff, Okay - I'd like to restate my position. :-) I think you're right - having different names for each release (Zope 3.2 = Blah, Zope 3.3 = Foo) *is* a bad idea, it creates confusion, especially in a framework with frequent releases. So -1 on that from me from now on. :) However... Jeff Shell wrote: Beyond that, I think that 'Zope 3' is a good looking set of characters and can be a strong brand in and of itself. Just always, always, always refer to it as Zope 3. It doesn't need to be Zope on Zydeco or something like that. 'Zope 3' has a lot of strong brand potential. It's crisp, it's clear, it builds on something established yet can differentiate itself from it. The secondary brand name (the Zomething in my example above) was the original example - and I personally think this is a good idea, just to give the clear message that this is distinct but building on Zope 2. Zope 2 is seldom referred to as Zope 2. Zope 2.x maybe, but I seldom notice it referred to as Zope 2, except now that Zope 3 is on the scene. By just adding emphasis to the 3, and it doesn't even need to be a strong emphasis, I think we can capture a lot. A fancy name isn't going to give the message that this is distinct, especially if the experience of finding out what Zope 3 is and how to use it starts bringing back painful memories of prior Zopes, or starts to mirror the stories people have heard about Zope - yeah, it's great if you can figure it out... good luck figuring it out... if you don't mind me using your argumentation to argue my point: There are a lot of people out there, it seems, that hate Zope. Maybe they hate Zope 2, maybe they even tried Zope 3.0 and got burnt. Somehow, it just seems it's got some bad stigma around it (e.g. look at the average flaming reply to a blog posting about Zope 3). Now, for those people, putting a new name in their heads may be a good way of suggesting that indeed, there is something new and something better here. It's not just the same old Zope with a few more bells and whistles, it's something entirely different. It deserves a second look. As Stephan pointed out, denying the Zope legacy is denying the work of those who took it from Zope 2 to Zope 3, and denying that we've learnt a lot of lessons from Zope 2. Which is why, in my reading, the original proposal for all this was to include all of them: The Zope, the 3 and the new name. And with that, as you identify, some more branding, in terms of resources, in terms of a clear, concise message and tag line, in terms of a good logo that people recognise, and in terms of an outward-facing orientation. That name should stay the same, across releases! Let's say we adopted the brand Zope 3 Singularity, zope3singularity.org, a slogan (Zope 3 Singularity - Be Adaptive), a logo, a colour scheme, a web site that's simple and on-message and a download box that says: Download version 3.2. When version 3.3 comes out, you'd say - NEW! Version 3.3, now with these cool new features, click here to see them in action. The brand stays Zope 3 Singularity, though. The message stays. The logo stays. And for new adopter that raves about Z3 Singularity being the best thing since sliced bread, people will take note that it's something new, not just the same dreary Zope (2) they tried before. So why the name, why not just Zope 3? You say that for Zope 3 to become a strong brand, people should Just always, always, always refer to it as Zope 3. What about the ones who didn't get the memo? What about J. Random Blogger who goes on and rants or raves about the latest version of Zope, forgetting the 3 and people either ignore him as a Zope Zealot (heh) with his head in the sand, or start arguing vigorously against him because they used Zope once in 1998 and didn't like it. As you said - this isn't easy. We need to be opinionated, proud, clear on our message. We need to take marketing seriously, because at the moment, a beautiful framework is obscured by an awful web site and an absent brand. Martin View this message in context: Re: Re: Selecting a code name Sent from the Zope3 - dev forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Selecting a code name
Max M wrote: Lennart Regebro wrote: On 2/7/06, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it would only make people go What, first Zope 2, then Zope 3, now Zope Zimba? thinking it's three different things. But always writing it Zope3 might be helpful. Telling that there is a difference between Zope 2 and Zope 3 is difficult without actually doing *something* Zope 3 vs Zope3 is a search engine optimisation, and doesn't comunicate anything. Naturally you can tell the difference between 2 and 3 with just a lot of communication. ... which only the converted will bother listening to. :) I think you hit the nail on the head, Max. Martin View this message in context: Re: Selecting a code name Sent from the Zope3 - dev forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re(2): [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Ursprüngliche Nachricht Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:01:23 +0100 von: Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternatively, we could use our energy to actually work together on a new website instead of competing. There's a zope-web mailing list, after all, so go and talk there. This would have my preference. I agree and think that Zope 3 doesn't need a secondary brand name. My suggestion: set up a dedicated website zope3.tld to emphazise that it is not just a new version, and things will go the right direction. The Zope3-rotterdam logo may be good enough to start a no-nonsens design. Downloads, tutorials and documentation of any level should be available by as less clicks as possible. The site should be as user friendly as possible for someone who looks the first time at zope3 (and may be thinking the sql-way), this is the audience. Just my 5¢ for further discussions. regards, -Klaus ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: Re: Selecting a
Max M wrote: If you want to fix the Zope 2 website at the same time as branding Zope 3, I fear it is a monumental task that will never happen. The Zope 2 website is so big, and has so much content that it should have somebody working on it full time if it needs changing. Perhaps this monumental approach to a zope site is wrong. Microsites with well defined boundaries, that a few or a single person could be responsible for might be a better approach. I think it's very important that if this is to happen, it must be done in realistic chunks so that it isn't seen as a failure. Which again goes back to the original proposal by Joel: If the adopted brand name for the new sexy Zope 3 thing is e.g. Zope 3 Singularity, we'll have http://zope3singularity.org. That site will be small and well-focused, it will be sexy and well-designed, it will have the information you need to wet your appetite, a few examples, a sleek and easy-to-follow tutorial, a list of successful Zope 3 sites and pointers to more comprehensive documentation and the books. And nothing more. Most importantly, it must *not* have a Wiki! zope.org can continue hosting the development wiki, a collaboration tool for the Zope core developers, but the marketing web site needs slightly tighter contrl. And it needs someone in charge, someone who feels it's their responsibility to keep it looking good, otherwise it will degenerate quickly and add to our misery. It would be good if such a site ran on Zope 3, too... could e.g. Tiks host it? Martin View this message in context: Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: Re: Selecting a Sent from the Zope3 - dev forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] [Zope3-Users] Selecting a code name
Martijn Faassen wrote: If we do manage to build a new website and are a good way done with it, *then* is the time to discuss possible branding options. ... except if that website is to incorporate a given brand and have a big launch. :) But you're absolutely right - presenting it properly, with a serious web site that has had some serious thought gone into it is the most important thing. Martin View this message in context: Re: [Zope3-Users] Selecting a code name Sent from the Zope3 - dev forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: Re: Selecting a
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:55, Martin Aspeli (sent by Nabble.com) wrote: If the adopted brand name for the new sexy Zope 3 thing is e.g. Zope 3 Singularity, we'll have http://zope3singularity.org. That site will be small and well-focused, it will be sexy and well-designed, it will have the information you need to wet your appetite, a few examples, a sleek and easy-to-follow tutorial, a list of successful Zope 3 sites and pointers to more comprehensive documentation and the books. And nothing more. Oh, here is goes. In a previous message I saw Zope 3 - Be Adaptive and I love it. :-) Even better Zope 3 - Adapted. Though I would use this more as a slogan than a codename or surname. (Yes, I am a huge Matrix fan, so this sounds like Reloaded :-) It would be good if such a site ran on Zope 3, too... could e.g. Tiks host it? We have to ask Roger, but he is currently developing a tiks.org site, so I guess that could be reused for zope3.org as well? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] [Zope3-Users] Selecting a code name
Martin Aspeli (sent by Nabble.com) wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: If we do manage to build a new website and are a good way done with it, *then* is the time to discuss possible branding options. ... except if that website is to incorporate a given brand and have a big launch. :) Which is why I said a good way done with it, not have launched it; I realize that if a brand name is done, it should be done before launch. But still... First build the content for this website, work on a design for it, be close to actually being able to launch, i.e. do all the real work, *then* have a discussion about brandnames. Right now, this is a distraction. Real work first, discussions on naming later. But you're absolutely right - presenting it properly, with a serious web site that has had some serious thought gone into it is the most important thing. Right, so let's put thought into this. The zope-web mailing list is open. We actually are collecting text. Feel free to help write some. Regards, Martijn P.S. My suggestion is Zope 3 Emacs :) ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Max M wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Alternatively, we could use our energy to actually work together on a new website instead of competing. There's a zope-web mailing list, after all, so go and talk there. This would have my preference. If you want to fix the Zope 2 website at the same time as branding Zope 3, I fear it is a monumental task that will never happen. Yes, that is indeed a risk that I'm well aware of. Still, I think we can present a good 'brochure' about Zope 2 on a unified website. Whatever we do, we should definitely sketch out the relationship between the two projects, something that is now completely missing. Zope 2 needs marketing as much as Zope 3. The Zope 2 website is so big, and has so much content that it should have somebody working on it full time if it needs changing. Perhaps this monumental approach to a zope site is wrong. Microsites with well defined boundaries, that a few or a single person could be responsible for might be a better approach. Yes. Rest assured my ambition is to keep ambitions as low as possible. :) Otherwise nothing will happen. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Martijn Faassen wrote: Max M wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Alternatively, we could use our energy to actually work together on a new website instead of competing. There's a zope-web mailing list, after all, so go and talk there. This would have my preference. If you want to fix the Zope 2 website at the same time as branding Zope 3, I fear it is a monumental task that will never happen. Yes, that is indeed a risk that I'm well aware of. Still, I think we can present a good 'brochure' about Zope 2 on a unified website. Whatever we do, we should definitely sketch out the relationship between the two projects, something that is now completely missing. Zope 2 needs marketing as much as Zope 3. The Zope 2 website is so big, and has so much content that it should have somebody working on it full time if it needs changing. Perhaps this monumental approach to a zope site is wrong. Microsites with well defined boundaries, that a few or a single person could be responsible for might be a better approach. Yes. Rest assured my ambition is to keep ambitions as low as possible. :) Otherwise nothing will happen. The front page of Zope.org doesn't show the activity around Z3 at all. That wouln't cost anything to start to add a few z3 links in Zope Exits for example. (beside the point to have a marco/micro approach) Regards Tarek ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Local Component Management Simplification
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 07 February 2006 00:31, suresh wrote: No it is not. Explicit is better then implicit. declareSite creates a new site in the sites mapping. We use this pattern for layers and skins already. Can you have site... directives without a corresponding declareSite...? What would that achieve? Probably not. In this case the site name=foo directive would raise an exception saying that no site with name foo exists. In which case I tend to agree with Dieter that declareSite ... is redundant and ZCML ceremony that we can without! If that pattern is being used elsewhere, may be we can eliminate it everywhere in one refactoring :) Suresh ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Local Component Management Simplification
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 07:08, suresh wrote: Probably not. In this case the site name=foo directive would raise an exception saying that no site with name foo exists. In which case I tend to agree with Dieter that declareSite ... is redundant and ZCML ceremony that we can without! If that pattern is being used elsewhere, may be we can eliminate it everywhere in one refactoring :) It is definitely not redundant. It creates a site. We do not want to implicitly create sites. To repeat myself again: EXPLICIT IS BETTER THAN IMPLICIT! Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Mikhail Kashkin wrote: 2. When users searchin' in search engines 'Zope 3', Google or other throw away 3 and search only for Zope Google doesn't throw away the 3. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Selecting a code name
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 09:42:31PM +1100, Rob Jeschofnik wrote: Paul Winkler wrote: Mac OSX in itself, on the other hand, was brilliant. With one letter they managed to establish: [...] Right... but that is a brand, not a codename. As I understand it, people are discussing things like Tiger, and Panther, to follow your example. Both codenames and brands are under discussion here. As I said before, I'm +0 on enhancing the brand, -1 on adding release codenames. IMO codenames make it harder, not easier, to talk about releases. Which came first - Cheetah or Puma? I submit that nobody but a certified mac geek can answer that question without googling it. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 03:09:01AM -0700, Jeff Shell wrote: and this, which I absolutely love: http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/whatsnew/whatsnew24.html +1. I think we really need something like that. I know that even I would care a lot less about new Python releases if -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Zope Foundation Imminence (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Nine new ZC Zope 3 packages)
On Feb 6, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Chris McDonough wrote: BTW, how impending is impending? Days, weeks, months? Anybody know? The word on the street is a pretty small number of weeks. (I believe the general idea at ZC is to not announce any precise guess as to exactly how impending we think things are, so people don't get mad at us if we miss a timeframe over which we have no control.) Gary ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Marketing Competition? (was Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name)
Tarek Ziadé wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Yes. Rest assured my ambition is to keep ambitions as low as possible. :) Otherwise nothing will happen. The front page of Zope.org doesn't show the activity around Z3 at all. That wouln't cost anything to start to add a few z3 links in Zope Exits for example. (beside the point to have a marco/micro approach) Good point. I'm not a maintainer of the current zope.org so this suggestion will have to be made to someone who can change things. I'm sure someone is listening on the zope-web mailing list who can? Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Selecting a code name
On 2/7/06, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said before, I'm +0 on enhancing the brand, -1 on adding release codenames. IMO codenames make it harder, not easier, to talk about releases. Which came first - Cheetah or Puma? I submit that nobody but a certified mac geek can answer that question without googling it. I agree with Paul here. Version relationships are important for technical audiences, and names don't help wirth that. I don't know what would help with marketing, but I suspect a general brand would be more helpful than version codenames. The only version codename I'm likely to remember is that for Ubuntu 6.04. :-) -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com There is no wealth but life. --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
You're right, googling Zope 3 works well surprisingly enough. For the record, I'm +.9 on sticking with Zope 3 for the moment, not ruling out adding a codename or marketing tagline in future if we found one that really fit. There *is* some bad feeling associated with Zope - but also a lot of respect and I'd like to see us stand by our name and drive out the badness. I think an excellent django/ror/turbogears-style website is all the Zope brand needs to win. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] zope.schema: defaults for non-immutables... questions
Stephan, By delegation support I mean support for being a proxy for an interface, and delegating its fulfillment to a subobject. For instance (by example): class ISomeContainer( Interface ): ... class ISoup( Interface ): ... class SomeContainer: implements( ISomeContainer ) class SoupedUpContainer: implements( ISomeContainer, ISoup ) delegateToInstanceAttribute( ISomeContainer, 'theContainer' ) def __init__( self ): self.theContainer = SomeContainer() What delegateToInstanceAttribute does is use __metaclass__ to create member functions in the SoupedUpContainer interface to implement the ISomeContainer interface by calling the functions on getattr( self, 'theContainer' ) delegateToClassAttribute would create classmethod members that did the same, except they delegated to a class attribute. (Note -- these names are more descriptive, but long-winded.) In my experience, it is quite common to want to delegate one interface but not another. Currently, even automating this outside of zope.interface now takes messing around with the advise internals, as a custom metaclass is called before the class interfaces are set up, where here we want to do the delegation afterwards. But some mechanism would be very useful, as proxying code is repetitive and thus boring and easy not to maintain. ... I will work up a proposal on this at some point, and post about it to the zope.interface list (which I had overlooked). I just wanted to explain what I meant in case it caught your fancy. As for the separation of zope.interface and zope.schema, I don't really feel Strongly; I just wanted to know why it was done the way it was done. If zope.interface provided better hooks (e.g. in advise) that would make implementing non-core features elsewhere easier. -Original Message- From: Stephan Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:15 AM To: zope3-dev@zope.org Cc: Shaun Cutts Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.schema: defaults for non-immutables... questions On Monday 06 February 2006 11:53, Shaun Cutts wrote: I've thought of several things I'd like to see in it The biggest would obviously be (optional) type checking of method calls, together with a more robust Method definition. Yes, there has been suggestions in this direction before. http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/MethodS pecification http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Specifi cationUnification Obviously this might be a subject for zope.interface. Also it would be nice to have something like delegateImplementation( iface, cvar ) and delegateProvision( iface, ivar) to delegate the fulfillment of an interface to a class variable or an instance variable. I don't understand what you mean. But my overall question is: since zope.schema is generally useful for components, why is it separate from zope.interface? I can think of two answers: one, pragmatically, zope3 wants a stable zope.interface so the rest of the system can come up to speed. Thus we can think of schema as sort of like the __future__ version of zope.interface. Second, as schema came from abstracting away zope-like features from gui support, it is meant as proto-gui-support. Well, it is a matter of overhead. We don't feel that everyone needs zope.schema. See the twisted guys for example. I would argue that, though it does support some features that would be useful for a gui, it is more generally applicable to component-based programming. If you feel strongly about this, bring it up on the zope.interface mailing list. (I have been using it for-- among other things-- some souped-up database Rows, which support transparently some postgress-specific features. The extra introspection capabilities in zope.schema have been useful.) Yep, it is nice for RDB things. But maybe Jim resists changes because he has a more specific role in mind for zope.schema, and the development of zope.interface? You have to ask him and the zope.interface mailing list. :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Broken homefolder tests
Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 10:31 schrieb Stephan Richter: On Monday 06 February 2006 19:18, Roger Ineichen wrote: Does somebody know if there is a method for check if a teardown get called after a test? Some hints? No, this is usually painful tracking down. You could check for test setup code that assigns AttributeAnnotatable to File. Also note that there is no good way for tearing down classImplements() statements. So this issue potentially exists in many places. I think for now it would be okay to add the declaration to the test setup. Can I assume that the problem is not in the homefolder package? Florian ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On 2/7/06, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:09, Jeff Shell wrote: Alright, I've stayed up way too late on this. Jeff, you always make great points! I would like to nominate you as the Zope 3 Propaganda Minister! :-) No seriously, you have a great way of explaining why Zope 3 is better than the latest hype; I think you are probably the best qualified to lead the marketing efforts? Are you willing? Anyone seconding me? :-) I'm willing, if I can make the time. And if I can make the time to write the lengthy emails that I do, I can write a real document, right? :) Last night I was looking at this page: http://www.zope.org/WhatIsZope and going damn, that's nice and then damn, I wrote a lot of that! There was some pre-existing material, but I remember updating it into the form that it stands at now and has stood at since. It really makes me want to register a whatiszope3.com and putting a page like that up. I've really really really been wanting to do this, and I've talked with the other guys here about doing something.. anything... to give back to the community. Heck, I've been wanting a little server here that I could play with in making a public facing Zope 3 application. But our resources have been severely limited :\. I may still go ahead and make a static page for now, or a post in Griddle Noise. Or even make a Writeboard.. Or a page in my Backpack account.. Or.. So many options, but so many deadlines. But I'll do my part to try to do something in the next few days. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Jeff Shell wrote: Beyond that, I think that 'Zope 3' is a good looking set of characters and can be a strong brand in and of itself. Just always, always, always refer to it as Zope 3. It doesn't need to be Zope on Zydeco or something like that. 'Zope 3' has a lot of strong brand potential. It's crisp, it's clear, it builds on something established yet can differentiate itself from it. hear hear! (alright, I'm a little cranky after losing a fight with trying to a do what I thought was a simple multi-adapter registered with just an 'adapter factory=...' directive call in ZCML... damn thing wouldn't use my publishTraverse and all I could do was scream and cry and re-architect my solution because those browser directives did their magic blessings of publishTraverse, call, and everything else and I couldn't figure out how to do that on my own easily... augh..) oooh, suckage :-/ I hope this is easy to unplug... I think the code-naming thing is silly. Names drive me crazy after a point because I just don't find the worth in keeping my internal translations up to date. hear hear 2! cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Mikhail Kashkin wrote: 1. This is new different platform, based on Zope ideas but with absolutely different code bases 2. When users searchin' in search engines 'Zope 3', Google or other throw away 3 and search only for Zope 3. Zope3 (or zope3) is more pythonic, you cann't name your module '''zope 3.webdev''' or something like this. Yes, but then we end up with Zope3 3.2.5, which is exactly what caused us to drop the X3 previously ;-) cheers, Chris - Simple is better, but then I would say that! -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:37:08 -0800, Fred Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/7/06, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said before, I'm +0 on enhancing the brand, -1 on adding release codenames. IMO codenames make it harder, not easier, to talk about releases. Which came first - Cheetah or Puma? I submit that nobody but a certified mac geek can answer that question without googling it. I agree with Paul here. Version relationships are important for technical audiences, and names don't help wirth that. I don't know what would help with marketing, but I suspect a general brand would be more helpful than version codenames. The only version codename I'm likely to remember is that for Ubuntu 6.04. :-) The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Code names for releases is only useful inside the team, IMO - unless you have the marketing power of designing a themed logo for every release (like Apple did - and it still creates confusion, so they dropped that for 10.4 Tiger - no stripes there, sir). -- _ Alexander Limi · Chief Architect · Plone Solutions · Norway Consulting · Training · Development · http://www.plonesolutions.com _ Plone Co-Founder · http://plone.org · Connecting Content Plone Foundation · http://plone.org/foundation · Protecting Plone ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:32:52 -0800, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like it or not, Zope (2) seems to have a lot of stigma out there; Zope 3 has been around a while. In actual fact, for a while I thought Zope 3.x was still just unfinished vapourware, waiting for the fabled Zope2 integration (the dropping of the X) that people were talking about. The way it was done was also incredibly unprofessional and created a lot of confusion: Quoting from http://www.zope.org/DevHome/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope320: It is our opinion that Zope 3 is more than ready for production use, which is why we decided to drop the X for experimental from the name. Problem is, the X was never about whether Zope was ready for production use - it had been *explicitly assigned* as a marker that meant Zope 2 migration/support was not there yet. A lot of people actually believed this would happen (as the Zope roadmap and PR spiel told them so), even though all of us knew it wouldn't happen. (I know the reasons, I know the plans for convergence, I know how Five works - I'm just pointing out that this part made a lot of people lose faith in Zope) -- _ Alexander Limi · Chief Architect · Plone Solutions · Norway Consulting · Training · Development · http://www.plonesolutions.com _ Plone Co-Founder · http://plone.org · Connecting Content Plone Foundation · http://plone.org/foundation · Protecting Plone ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Broken homefolder tests
Hi Florian [...] No, this is usually painful tracking down. You could check for test setup code that assigns AttributeAnnotatable to File. Also note that there is no good way for tearing down classImplements() statements. So this issue potentially exists in many places. I think for now it would be okay to add the declaration to the test setup. Can I assume that the problem is not in the homefolder package? Sorry, but no you can't. One problem is, that the homefolder README test is broken because of, the File doesn't support AttributeAnnotatable by default. You can add directlyProvides(File, IAttributeAnnotatable) in the test setup. The bad thing is, that the test doesn't fail if you are running all tests at once. This means that another test provides IAttributeAnnotatable for the File. And this another test doesn't teardown correct. Regards Roger Ineichen Florian ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
Alexander Limi wrote: The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Random thought... hehe... Zope Cubed. It's only a typographical change from Zope 3. The tagline would be Zope, raised to a higher power! It's a vague reference to cubicles, where enterprise developers usually work. It's also a vague reference to Cubism, which lets the viewer see many perspectives from a single viewpoint, like Zope 3, which lets the developer accomplish many objectives using a single framework. :-) wasting-time-ly y'rs, Shane ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Broken homefolder tests
Hi Stephan [...] No, this is usually painful tracking down. You could check for test setup code that assigns AttributeAnnotatable to File. Also note that there is no good way for tearing down classImplements() statements. So this issue potentially exists in many places. I think for now it would be okay to add the declaration to the test setup. Ok, I will take a look at this next week. Have a nice week Regards Roger Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 22:37:45 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Limi wrote: The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Random thought... hehe... Zope Cubed. It's only a typographical change from Zope 3. The tagline would be Zope, raised to a higher power! It's a vague reference to cubicles, where enterprise developers usually work. It's also a vague reference to Cubism, which lets the viewer see many perspectives from a single viewpoint, like Zope 3, which lets the developer accomplish many objectives using a single framework. I quite like that one (note that Cubed is also a codename for some Z3 work that's just been begun in the Plone sphere, but I'm sure this could be changed if this name were to stick). Zope^3 :) Martin -- (muted) ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On 2/8/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, but then we end up with Zope3 3.2.5, which is exactly what caused us to drop the X3 previously ;-) Thinking about the X it is unfortunate it was used to indicate compatibility with Zope2 and the experimental version of Zope. It was mentioned on the users list how Mac OS X communicated the message adding just the X that this was a completely different operating system to the previous Mac OS-s. Of course, as Martin pointed out, it is not just the brand name but the marketing effort behind it that makes the difference. But to me X could very easily stand for Extreme Programming which is what Zope3 is about - agile, rapid, adaptive, iterative, extreme development (throwing in a few more words for the upcoming marketing campaign :). The X can send this message better than any other single character and it's not as obtrusive as adding or changing a name. I believe to certain extent there is already understanding out there that X could mean XP. I also think that Zope 2.8 Zope 2.9 Zope X 3.2 Zope X 3.3 is clearer that this is a different Zope not just a next release, as it would be at the moment: Zope 2.8 Zope 2.9 Zope 3.2 Zope 3.3 or is it Zope 2.8 Zope 2.9 Zope 3 3.2 Zope 3 3.3 Back in the days of X3.0 I think Philipp in the heading of this article named Formula X used X in a different context and I liked it: http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/54/Zope_X30_Review.pdf (maybe we should check with Philipp if this article could be reviewed for 3.2 and used for the new site as it gives a nice overview) I am not sure if it was a good idea raising the X from the dead so I am slowly ducking for cover. But what's the big deal, we just adapt it to a different context... or is it adapt context to a different interface .. or ... anyhow you get my drift :) Alen ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:37:45 -0800, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Limi wrote: The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Random thought... hehe... Zope Cubed. It's only a typographical change from Zope 3. The tagline would be Zope, raised to a higher power! It's a vague reference to cubicles, where enterprise developers usually work. It's also a vague reference to Cubism, which lets the viewer see many perspectives from a single viewpoint, like Zope 3, which lets the developer accomplish many objectives using a single framework. :-) Too bad this is already the name for the experimental Plone integration work with Zope 3. :) -- _ Alexander Limi · Chief Architect · Plone Solutions · Norway Consulting · Training · Development · http://www.plonesolutions.com _ Plone Co-Founder · http://plone.org · Connecting Content Plone Foundation · http://plone.org/foundation · Protecting Plone ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
On 2/7/06, Alen Stanisic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: upcoming marketing campaign :). The X can send this message better than any other single character and it's not as obtrusive as adding or changing a name. I believe to certain extent there is already understanding out there that X could mean XP. If we must add something at all, I don't see that it needs to be a single letter. Adding the X would simply make the confusion worse, anyway, given that only a limited amount of marketing will get done anyway. So why not say it's about XP and make it Zope XP 3.x.y? -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com There is no wealth but life. --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name
2006/2/7, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Alexander Limi wrote: The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Random thought... hehe... Zope Cubed. It's only a typographical change from Zope 3. The tagline would be Zope, raised to a higher power! It's a vague reference to cubicles, where enterprise developers usually work. It's also a vague reference to Cubism, which lets the viewer see many perspectives from a single viewpoint, like Zope 3, which lets the developer accomplish many objectives using a single framework. :-) +1 It's also an exponential increase in power. Cubism was an innovation allowing multiple views of an object. 2006/2/8, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Zope^3 :) That's brilliant. It works in ASCII, or in normal text in a paragraph of a magazine. Now, try it in a few different typefaces, and make it big. Zope^3 is *far* more visually interesting than 'Zope3'. 2006/2/8, Alexander Limi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Too bad this is already the name for the experimental Plone integration work with Zope 3. :) Too bad? I'd say it's perfect. All the apps will get cubed. :-) kit -- kit BLAKE Infrae · infrae.com · +31 10 243 7051 Hoevestraat 10 · 3033GC · Rotterdam · The Netherlands ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Selecting a code name
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 22:11:31 -0800, kit BLAKE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Are you going French style with your last name in all caps, Kit? :) 2006/2/8, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Zope^3 :) That's brilliant. It works in ASCII, or in normal text in a paragraph of a magazine. Now, try it in a few different typefaces, and make it big. Zope^3 is *far* more visually interesting than 'Zope3'. +1. Zope^3 is visually interesting enough, and geeky enough. 2006/2/8, Alexander Limi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Too bad this is already the name for the experimental Plone integration work with Zope 3. :) Too bad? I'd say it's perfect. All the apps will get cubed. :-) Sounds good to me. Bring on the Cubification, baby! :] -- _ Alexander Limi · Chief Architect · Plone Solutions · Norway Consulting · Training · Development · http://www.plonesolutions.com _ Plone Co-Founder · http://plone.org · Connecting Content Plone Foundation · http://plone.org/foundation · Protecting Plone ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
