Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Op 15/06/2010 16:16, gdgqler schreef: On 15 Jun 2010, at 11:43, Dilwyn Jones wrote: the QL and Aurora are only brought out for the specific use fo testing programs or, sorry Rich, formatting DD disks for the very occasional Quanta library request. It seems as if I am the only person actually able to format blank DD disks using QPC2 and Windows XP. Perhaps its because I have a Packard Bell floppy reader. Perhaps those wanting DDs formatted should send them to me! George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm No, I too can format a DD floppy with my Iomega USB floppy drive. Format 'flp1_abc*D' - 1440/1440 sectors in 1 minute 10 seconds. Format 'flp1_abc*H' - 2880/2880 sectors in 14 seconds. François Van Emelen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. I think the idea of using a platform independent system to run an emulator to be a good idea, though it does add another layer of indirection and a performance penalty. After all, it's a virtual processor/machine running within another virtual processor/machine. For those who like hardware, maybe building upon the work done in the Linux world would be an interesting way forward, e.g. writing a bare-metal M68K virtual machine on top of an ARM (I know, it's an Acorn derivative ;-)) machine which is already available. I found the following web article interesting with regards to keeping Acorn RISCOS alive. Maybe the same hardware could help keep the QDOS and derivative OSs alive?: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/riscos_beagleboard/ Steve -- --- Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. I think the idea of using a platform independent system to run an emulator to be a good idea, though it does add another layer of indirection and a performance penalty. After all, it's a virtual processor/machine running within another virtual processor/machine. My original suggestion for the QL In A Browser was intended more as a portable option - where I could use my QL from abrowser wherever I happened to be at the time (no comments please!). I accept what you say about the speed overheads, but it was really only intended as a facility to use a QL in a browser, nothing more than that. For those who like hardware, maybe building upon the work done in the Linux world would be an interesting way forward, e.g. writing a bare-metal M68K virtual machine on top of an ARM (I know, it's an Acorn derivative ;-)) machine which is already available. I seem to remember that Urs mentioned something on 11th June discussed at the Austrian QL meeting called a QCF card (QLCompact Flash), a bare bones Linux computer on a flash card for the ROM port. I'm not sure if this was meant to be running a QL emulator and so become a super-QL-on-a-QL (he mentioned the QXL.WIN etc) or simply a plug-in Linux computer for the QL. Either way, it sounded interesting and certainly one way to go forward. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c27117d.20...@lingula.org.uk, Stephen Usher st...@lingula.org.uk writes Rich Mellor wrote: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. I think the idea of using a platform independent system to run an emulator to be a good idea, though it does add another layer of indirection and a performance penalty. After all, it's a virtual processor/machine running within another virtual processor/machine. For those who like hardware, maybe building upon the work done in the Linux world would be an interesting way forward, e.g. writing a bare-metal M68K virtual machine on top of an ARM (I know, it's an Acorn derivative ;-)) machine which is already available. I found the following web article interesting with regards to keeping Acorn RISCOS alive. Maybe the same hardware could help keep the QDOS and derivative OSs alive?: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/riscos_beagleboard/ Hi Steve, Nice link ... :-) Chris Curry and Clive Sinclair originally worked together, and then split with the Acorn/Sinclair rivalry ( friendly though ). Coming back to together with a common hardware platform - the ARM chips - would be interesting. RISCOS Open is a nice idea, too, to take forward the development. Interesting to hear that is now happening. I still use my Archimedes ... :-) Would that work for an QDOS/SMSQ/E Open ... ? Anyway, something needs to get done. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 24/06/2010 05:10, Gerhard Plavec wrote: Hello Rich ! Rich Mellor schrieb: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. That are very good news, but why don't you publish the link(s) for everybody may have a look on these Java based Amiga emulator(s) ? Gerhard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm My apologies - one emulator which is 99% complete is Miggy - http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Games/Miggy.shtml Also have a look at UAE4ALL Amiga - this seems to have been ported to various platforms, including mobile phones which need Java, but I can't find a main site for it -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Am 24.06.2010 um 09:05 schrieb Rich Mellor: On 24/06/2010 05:10, Gerhard Plavec wrote: Hello Rich ! Rich Mellor schrieb: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. That are very good news, but why don't you publish the link(s) for everybody may have a look on these Java based Amiga emulator(s) ? Gerhard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm My apologies - one emulator which is 99% complete is Miggy - http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Games/Miggy.shtml Also have a look at UAE4ALL Amiga - this seems to have been ported to various platforms, including mobile phones which need Java, but I can't find a main site for it -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Rich, here is the website for UAE4ALL: http://chui.dcemu.co.uk/uae4all.html Anton ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message e1orbxq-0005od...@outmx01.plus.net, Martin Wheatley mart...@martinwheatley.plus.com writes For personal use it will be provided free. Although, a persons free use will continue to make money for the provider behind the scenes. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ If you are expecting Microsoft or Apple to allow you to use their products for free you may have a very long wait! martinw For software the free to use model, for personal use, is already in place and successful. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 19/06/2010 21:46, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Anyway, I haven't heard any specifications, as yet for a QL21 - a QL inheritance device for the 21st Century . -- Malcolm Cadman I think it'd be great to have an online QL running in a browser - perhaps Java based or whatever. I seem to remember someone mentioning a ZX81 or Spectrum which would run in a browser. That way, you'd be free of the nuances of any particular QL emulator or QL compatible - wherever you are, fire up your browser and access the QL over an internet connection. Synchronised online storage space (there's plenty of free space providers) would ensure your files would be up to date no matter whether you were running it at home or away from home. Ah well, I can dream I suppose ... Dilwyn Jones I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote, on 23/Jun/10 22:01 | Jun23: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. ... and capable of running on a Java compatible mobile. Mine has a 480 x 800 resolution so would be fine for most QL displays. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Hello Rich ! Rich Mellor schrieb: I would also like a java based Sinclair QL emulator and perhaps that would be a project which Quanta could help fund the development of - it would attract a much wider audience and enable demos of programs to be played online to show what the QL is capable of. There are already Java based emulators for the Amiga - perhaps someone could use this core, or even see if they can get the QL emulator to run on the Java based Amiga emulator. That are very good news, but why don't you publish the link(s) for everybody may have a look on these Java based Amiga emulator(s) ? Gerhard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message e1oqo1x-0008vu...@outmx06.plus.net, Martin Wheatley mart...@martinwheatley.plus.com writes With the iPad, you have missed the point I was making. I was using the iPad like devices - not the iPad per se - as an example as to the way things may well ( are ) going forward. Then we will have to disagree. There is a place for the Ipad and Ipadalikes but I don't see it replacing PCs We will see ... :-) I received, today, a promotion for a new portable computer which has two touch screens. One way where you may expect it, and the other where the QWERTY keypad would normally be. It can display a view using both screens, or one screen. The other screen can have six different virtual modes of operation. So, it is a crossover product, with portable computer capacity and touch screen technology. You seem to be anti-Apple ( poor Steve Jobs ) ... :-) Not at all. I admire his ability to stick a bit of coloured plastic on something, quadruple the price and get away with it The one thing he isn't is poor! Don't underestimate how difficult it is to bring innovative electronic products to market. Sir Clive had innovative ideas and brought electronic products to market, yet didn't stay a world leader. Steve Jobs has done it over and over again, and made it very successful world wide. The influence on others is also very profound. The Cloud is more than that - as the concept develops it will have the potential to take away owing individual versions of software on individual devices - like computers - or on network servers, etc. Providers could just stop selling individual versions of software, altogether. Or sell them only at quite high cost. At same time as offering you a free service, through their own provision. Which, then, would you choose ? And you miss my point. It won't be free. You will be expected to pay for Word and Excel and many others over and over again. They will charge you an annual fee for using each prog Microsoft tried to quietly introduce this a few years and had to withdraw it in the face of consumer resistance. Computer software and hardware companies do things in their own interest not yours and the cloud under various names is something they've been trying to introduce for years. Do you really trust Microsoft or Google to keep all your letters rather than keeping them yourself?I don't think so The fee basis works well in industry. Always has. For personal use it will be provided free. Although, a persons free use will continue to make money for the provider behind the scenes. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c1fbc34.2000...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes Yes, OK then ... what will be the 21st Century specification of this Linux based laptop ? No need to be practical, right now ... just dream what it might be . Well, if you put it like that, I still have no idea! However, a few thoughts, or rambles? MC68 processor and lots of RAM. Floating Point Unit built in - keeps George happy! ;-) RAM disk, Floppy disc, Hard disk - a proper one, not a pseudo one like we have at the moment. Proper file system where the set up is like, or better then I have documented here: http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/blog/2009/05/whats-wrong-with-this-file-system/ - obviously backward compatibility mode would be included, but as a separate module. A proper (!) windowing system, like Windows if necessary, that is easy to use, set up and control. Resize by dragging borders (I know George has a demo - but it should be built in). Judging by Tony Tebby's rants against Unix, in QL Toady, I better not mention it in any way! ;-) Not that I was going to. Dual boot - Linux or QPC. Networking built in as laptops etc already have. Proper Ethernet (gigabit) and not some mash up designed by Sinclair. Proper character sets using unicode as and where necessary, one codeset fits all! A decent pile of software - C and C++ compilers - I know we have an extremely good C compiler already thanks to Dave Walker and his brother - Assembly language of course and SuperBasic. probably doesn't need changing for the 21st century - they got it right! Decent sound, able to play all known codecs - MPx (if you must), Ogg, FLAC, etc. Video and image abilities. HTML and CSS as standard. Etc etc. You name it, if it's already on Linux, then the QL21 should also have it! And so on. Cheers, Norman. Nice, Norman ... keep it coming ... :-) I hope that others can now build there ideas on this. Or, something different again ! -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
For personal use it will be provided free. Although, a persons free use will continue to make money for the provider behind the scenes. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ If you are expecting Microsoft or Apple to allow you to use their products for free you may have a very long wait! martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Malcolm wrote So, iPad like devices will succeed all of the above, and we will all be using them as they get more capable. You have to distinguish between those things that are long term computing trends and those which are short term fads No one can dispute the huge sales of the Ipad. It looks great - it is marketed brilliantly but what does it do? It is easy to imagine people looking at it in 9 months and saying to themselves - 'I spent a lot of money on that but what did I do with it that I couldn't have done with the equipment I already had' The answer in many cases will be nothing! The cloud is not new - it failed the previous time. The thinking behind it is not the storage of backups but the use of programs in the cloud. That way instead of you making a one-off payment for a prog you can use for as long as you like you end up making an annual payment to use the prog. The companies make much more money from the prog and have a steady income stream from it and you are tied to them. Personally I prefer to do my own computing rather than have Microsoft do it. The history of Microsoft in recent years is them attempting to take over more and more of what you do and people resisting it. You are in their hands with the cloud - they can ask what they like since all they have to do is stop your access to their server. And that can happen accidently anyway martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Roy Wood wrote, on 20/Jun/10 23:29 | Jun20: On 20/06/2010 20:03, Norman Dunbar wrote: On 18/06/10 00:15, Tony Firshman wrote: I have that set but it doesn't spell check. Looks like a bug (3.0.4). That's interesting Tony. Roy on Windows and you on Mac and me on Linux, all using 3.0.4 (I think Roy mentioned 3.0.4) and only Linux can spell check as you type. Spooky! Works fine for me here. Thankfully. My only problem with it is when the words I type are correctly spelled/spelt but they are the wrong words! Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm 3.0.5 actually ... and so is mine now, but only just updated. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message e1oqc0a-0006a9...@outmx08.plus.net, Martin Wheatley mart...@martinwheatley.plus.com writes Malcolm wrote So, iPad like devices will succeed all of the above, and we will all be using them as they get more capable. You have to distinguish between those things that are long term computing trends and those which are short term fads No one can dispute the huge sales of the Ipad. It looks great - it is marketed brilliantly but what does it do? It is easy to imagine people looking at it in 9 months and saying to themselves - 'I spent a lot of money on that but what did I do with it that I couldn't have done with the equipment I already had' The answer in many cases will be nothing! Hi Martin, Great that you have entered the discussion. With the iPad, you have missed the point I was making. I was using the iPad like devices - not the iPad per se - as an example as to the way things may well ( are ) going forward. Douglas Adams used the idea of The Book as being a portable device that one could refer to for everything you wanted to know. That is now starting to be implemented with first the 2G mobile phones, then 3G mobile phones; and iPad like devices. I am not advocating that I like iPad, per se. Yet, as ever it is a great piece of marketing - as you have conceded. But, more than that it is indicative of another way forward in human ergonomic use of devices - not longer keyboard and mouse ( which is the current PC de facto user method ). Of course, as ever, the new devices can always refer back to previous technology; and the iPad like devices will have virtual/touch keyboards for a while, too. You seem to be anti-Apple ( poor Steve Jobs ) ... :-) The cloud is not new - it failed the previous time. The thinking behind it is not the storage of backups but the use of programs in the cloud. That way instead of you making a one-off payment for a prog you can use for as long as you like you end up making an annual payment to use the prog. The companies make much more money from the prog and have a steady income stream from it and you are tied to them. Personally I prefer to do my own computing rather than have Microsoft do it. The history of Microsoft in recent years is them attempting to take over more and more of what you do and people resisting it. You are in their hands with the cloud - they can ask what they like since all they have to do is stop your access to their server. And that can happen accidently anyway martinw The Cloud is more than that - as the concept develops it will have the potential to take away owing individual versions of software on individual devices - like computers - or on network servers, etc. Programs and usage will be provided - more like radio and television. No need for the user to ever have to worry about buying software, having enough storage space, or being up to date. It will just be there. Obviously, the provider will require a fee for the provision. Providers, like Google, already give you their services for free. However, behind the scenes in small fractions of your time usage, along with millions of others, they are making an income - all of the time. Otherwise, how did they become so rich ? Providers could just stop selling individual versions of software, altogether. Or sell them only at quite high cost. At same time as offering you a free service, through their own provision. Which, then, would you choose ? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c1fb5a0.80...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes So, iPad like devices will succeed all of the above, and we will all be using them as they get more capable. Nope. iPad like devices may catch on - they didn't when they were called Tablet PCs way back. I admit the technology wasn't as advanced and mobile phones hardy even existed then. However, in the long run, I predict, that there will be iPad like devices and maybe lots of them, but the PC - in all it's guises - will still be dominant. PC's will only remain popular - as a mass market - as long as the industry supports their manufacture. Once the game moves elsewhere, they will be more of the technological history. I, like you, will probably still use them - as we do the QL ( which is no longer manufactured ) - probably because we like all sorts of technology and we know how to use them. After all, the iPad has been here before, remember this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ ? There were even Compaq (I think) versions from before 2000. Anyway, I still awaiting your dream ideas for the QL21 ... :-) If I had any, then we'd end up with a Linux based Laptop running QPC! Yes, OK then ... what will be the 21st Century specification of this Linux based laptop ? No need to be practical, right now ... just dream what it might be . :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Yes, OK then ... what will be the 21st Century specification of this Linux based laptop ? No need to be practical, right now ... just dream what it might be . Well, if you put it like that, I still have no idea! However, a few thoughts, or rambles? MC68 processor and lots of RAM. Floating Point Unit built in - keeps George happy! ;-) RAM disk, Floppy disc, Hard disk - a proper one, not a pseudo one like we have at the moment. Proper file system where the set up is like, or better then I have documented here: http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/blog/2009/05/whats-wrong-with-this-file-system/ - obviously backward compatibility mode would be included, but as a separate module. A proper (!) windowing system, like Windows if necessary, that is easy to use, set up and control. Resize by dragging borders (I know George has a demo - but it should be built in). Judging by Tony Tebby's rants against Unix, in QL Toady, I better not mention it in any way! ;-) Not that I was going to. Dual boot - Linux or QPC. Networking built in as laptops etc already have. Proper Ethernet (gigabit) and not some mash up designed by Sinclair. Proper character sets using unicode as and where necessary, one codeset fits all! A decent pile of software - C and C++ compilers - I know we have an extremely good C compiler already thanks to Dave Walker and his brother - Assembly language of course and SuperBasic. probably doesn't need changing for the 21st century - they got it right! Decent sound, able to play all known codecs - MPx (if you must), Ogg, FLAC, etc. Video and image abilities. HTML and CSS as standard. Etc etc. You name it, if it's already on Linux, then the QL21 should also have it! And so on. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 21/06/2010 20:10, Malcolm Cadman wrote: SNIP No need to be practical, right now ... just dream what it might be . :-) Was it the Rocky Horror Show? - 'Don't dream it - be it!' -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
With the iPad, you have missed the point I was making. I was using the iPad like devices - not the iPad per se - as an example as to the way things may well ( are ) going forward. Then we will have to disagree. There is a place for the Ipad and Ipadalikes but I don't see it replacing PCs You seem to be anti-Apple ( poor Steve Jobs ) ... :-) Not at all. I admire his ability to stick a bit of coloured plastic on something, quadruple the price and get away with it The one thing he isn't is poor! The Cloud is more than that - as the concept develops it will have the potential to take away owing individual versions of software on individual devices - like computers - or on network servers, etc. Providers could just stop selling individual versions of software, altogether. Or sell them only at quite high cost. At same time as offering you a free service, through their own provision. Which, then, would you choose ? And you miss my point. It won't be free. You will be expected to pay for Word and Excel and many others over and over again. They will charge you an annual fee for using each prog Microsoft tried to quietly introduce this a few years and had to withdraw it in the face of consumer resistance. Computer software and hardware companies do things in their own interest not yours and the cloud under various names is something they've been trying to introduce for years. Do you really trust Microsoft or Google to keep all your letters rather than keeping them yourself?I don't think so martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
on 19/6/10 11:44 PM, ql-us...@q-v-d.com wrote: Darren Branagh wrote: If I come across fifty grand I dont need i'll give you a call:) Okay, I'll stay near the phone from now on :-D What about QLAY, or Q-Emulator.. guys? Or writing one from scratch... anyone out there with the ability or the money :) It'll have to be written from scratch in any case. The only advantage I'd have is a somewhat intimate knowledge of the system. Marcel I wonder if Clive Sinclair has the odd bob or two to spare. Bryan H _ __ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 19/06/2010 23:30, Darren Branagh wrote: On 6/19/10, Malcolm Cadmanq...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: I am looking forward to have an iPad like device myself, though, too ... although I would expect to make a wider use of it than just entertainment. Why? its a toy. its an Apple iTouch on steroids. I had one for a while testing it (I'm working for the mobile phone network 3 at present, and they are interested in the 3G version for obvious reasons) and I pretty much hated it - dont get me wrong, its beautiful, it makes you go oh when you first use it, but a replacement for a good laptop it aint - its a nice toy, and an overpriced one at that - the eee pad (the iPad looking version of the cheap netbook eeepc that came out a few years ago) should be a better buy. And will probably run QPC too .now, a handheld touchscreen QL, wouldnt that be nice? Hi all - been lurking for a long time but this mention of Ithingies caught my eye. Iphone I like but a bit pricey considering I use my mobile phone as a phone pretty much 95% of the time, this of course would change with the options on an Iphone. But an Ipad - no, what do you do with a hi tech dinner plate when not using it, too big to go in your pocket, even the most confirmed medallion man would think twice. Up North here perhaps we could fit one onto a flat cap, Norman could of course disguise one as a sporran, although there was that hooha about radiation with phones, might need lead undergarments. On topic I use a usb floppy with QPC but can't recall any format problems (Vista) but doubt that I would be formatting anything other than HD All the best - Bill ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
But an Ipad - no, what do you do with a hi tech dinner plate when not using it, too big to go in your pocket, even the most confirmed medallion man would think twice. Hi-tech dinner plate... I like it. I could just imagine Bill on the farm sat in his tractor cab playing with his hi-tech dinner plate sorting out his farm accounts and reading his emails, with an app controlling his tractor, another controlling his muck-spreader, another feeding the animals... ...and Bill fuming when it all went wrong! ;o)) Up North here perhaps we could fit one onto a flat cap, Norman could of course disguise one as a sporran, although there was that hooha about radiation with phones, might need lead undergarments. A Scot with an iPad up his kilt? ooer missus, I hate to think! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/2010 11:01, Dilwyn Jones wrote: But an Ipad - no, what do you do with a hi tech dinner plate when not using it, too big to go in your pocket, even the most confirmed medallion man would think twice. Hi-tech dinner plate... I like it. I could just imagine Bill on the farm sat in his tractor cab playing with his hi-tech dinner plate sorting out his farm accounts and reading his emails, with an app controlling his tractor, another controlling his muck-spreader, another feeding the animals... ...and Bill fuming when it all went wrong! ;o)) Up North here perhaps we could fit one onto a flat cap, Norman could of course disguise one as a sporran, although there was that hooha about radiation with phones, might need lead undergarments. A Scot with an iPad up his kilt? ooer missus, I hate to think! Dilwyn Jones I'm retired now Dilwyn, I thought that would mean more time for QLing, but no, What with U3A, old Bikes, Luncheon club, Countdown, Garden and grand kids ... I do a bit of work for my old employer during busy spells, includes driving a satellite navigation control tractor, so yes chips are everywhere even on fertilizer spreaders ( not muck spreaders though ), combines read the crop yield as they cut it, satellites read mineral deficiencies from space, this data is put on a card which is inserted in the fertilizer spreader and it spreads the required amount where it is needed instead of a wasteful blanket coverage. Works quite well with the exception of trees !!! ( signal loss ) All the best - Bill ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message aanlktilppsanrruhli7ao-pluchjabu7q1exxyn7a...@mail.gmail.com, Darren Branagh darrenbran...@gmail.com writes On 6/19/10, Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I think it'd be great to have an online QL running in a browser - perhaps Java based or whatever. I seem to remember someone mentioning a ZX81 or Spectrum which would run in a browser. That way, you'd be free of the nuances of any particular QL emulator or QL compatible - wherever you are, fire up your browser and access the QL over an internet connection. Synchronised online storage space (there's plenty of free space providers) would ensure your files would be up to date no matter whether you were running it at home or away from home. Ah well, I can dream I suppose ... Dilwyn Jones Hi All, Yes - I'm here and alive and reading with great interest, although kids, and being in and out of work are keeping me busy, This is the best thread in ages !! I agree with Dilwyn - an online browser based QL is vey much needed - I use a ZX Spectrum one all the time via a Facebook app, great stress relief. :-) most of the games on World of Spectrum are available this way too. I would love to see Marcel work on converting QPC to run this way - Marcel, is this possible? If so, is much work involved? I certainly would'nt mind paying a few bob for the ability to pull up a working QL on ANY PC I happen to be working on - with an internet connection, or course. Darren. Hi Dilwyn, Nice thought ... a virtual QL21 that would be there, with legacy software and present/future capabilities. Hi Darren, Nice to see that we have woken you up again ... :-) As you both say something like it is being done in a present www browser form with other retro computers. Keep the ideas coming ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message aanlktiksjke34p4bw1hldg73ejkzyzkrn_k6wlmkx...@mail.gmail.com, Darren Branagh darrenbran...@gmail.com writes On 6/19/10, Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: I am looking forward to have an iPad like device myself, though, too ... although I would expect to make a wider use of it than just entertainment. Why? its a toy. its an Apple iTouch on steroids. I had one for a while testing it (I'm working for the mobile phone network 3 at present, and they are interested in the 3G version for obvious reasons) and I pretty much hated it - dont get me wrong, its beautiful, it makes you go oh when you first use it, but a replacement for a good laptop it aint - its a nice toy, and an overpriced one at that - the eee pad (the iPad looking version of the cheap netbook eeepc that came out a few years ago) should be a better buy. And will probably run QPC too .now, a handheld touchscreen QL, wouldnt that be nice? Hi Darren, Glad to have you back on the list, contributing ... :-) The first version of anything is never that good ... I will wait for version 2 or 3 before using one. Although, the millions of users will just grow and grow, I suspect for iPad like devices ( a lot of rivals are being planned for launch ). The PC way, with a QWERTY keyboard will start to have had its day. Mobile phones with keyboards have not exactly been popular with the majority of users. The ergonomics of the touch screen are better. A future device could be very interesting. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/10 10:13, Billy wrote: But an Ipad - no, what do you do with a hi tech dinner plate when not using it, too big to go in your pocket, even the most confirmed medallion man would think twice. It doesn't do flash, which puts about 70% of the internet out of reach. It doesnt do HD quality. it doesn't do multi-tasking. It's not a phone (which is a blessing, you'd look pretty stupid holding one of those up to your ear!). There's a decent web site somewhere out there in internet-land with the title the 10 missing bits of the iPad or similar. It also has a call action against it in the US, already. It was advertised as being internet ready and the website the used was shown to work. Unfortunately, Apple didn;t mention that the image was a mock up because the web site in question used Flash - which the iPad cannot display. The new ads show the flash bit as unavailable. Up North here perhaps we could fit one onto a flat cap, Norman could of course disguise one as a sporran, although there was that hooha about radiation with phones, might need lead undergarments. A true Scotsman never wears anything under the kilt - lead or otherwise! ;-) Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/10 11:01, Dilwyn Jones wrote: A Scot with an iPad up his kilt? ooer missus, I hate to think! Now Dilwyn, we wear the sporran on the outside of the kilt. It's a glorified handbag/purse. There are no pockets on a kilt, so you have to put your wallet, chewing gum, loose change etc somewhere! Mine is a dead horse. That's what it is made from. And sterling silver of course! My wife, Alison, complained (jokingly) at the price I paid for it when I bought it as she's never paid that much for a handbag! Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/10 19:56, Norman Dunbar wrote: It also has a call action against it in the US, already. He should have wrote (!): It also has a CLASS action Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 18/06/10 00:15, Tony Firshman wrote: I have that set but it doesn't spell check. Looks like a bug (3.0.4). That's interesting Tony. Roy on Windows and you on Mac and me on Linux, all using 3.0.4 (I think Roy mentioned 3.0.4) and only Linux can spell check as you type. Spooky! Works fine for me here. Thankfully. My only problem with it is when the words I type are correctly spelled/spelt but they are the wrong words! Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 19/06/10 20:00, P Witte wrote: But surely you see that it could spell then end of the Personal Computer, in which case the next great thing becomes significant and not merely a fad. They said that COBOL was dead. it lives on many many years after it's alleged demise. The reaosn being, there are still far too many apps written in COBOL to be rewritten in TNGT (The Next Great Thing). COBOL is still with us, 10 years after the Y2K problem. Think about how many laptops, desktops and so on there are, even tablets and netbooks. The clouds (grey and miserable usually!) will not take that away. The applications may run on the cloud servers and the data may reside there too, but people sill still have DVDs to watch, CDs to listen to/rip to MPx/OGG/FLAC or whatever, emails to send etc. The desktop PC, like COBOL, is not dead - and won't be for a long time. The issues you raise regarding privacy and security will be solved, otherwise this idea will vanish (until needed on some other occasion). The issue I have are simple, I don't *know* that my data are safe in the cloud. I don't know that the competitors I have cannot see my data. it's true I don't want to have to pay for all those servers when I can get space and rent someone else's, but I will never *know* how secure they are. Equally, when the cloud hosting company goes bust - where is my data and applications? Do I get them back? Or am I stuffed up beyond all recognition. My business could depend on it! SNIP Of course there will be thousands of old fogeys, like me, and perhaps you, who wont take to all that jazz, but will continue to issue our curses and incantations over strange black boxes from another era, nay, civilisation. There may well be old fogeys, like me and you ;-) but I don't think that ludditism will be the reason for not taking up the next fad. That doesn't mean to say lots of people won't be taking it up - after all, look how many iPads Apple have sold - and, as Darran pointed out, they are basically good looking but useless cr4p! Still, I have a DropBox account, and find it very handy. Yes, but you are Joe user and not Big Joe Company. DropBox isn't really the cloud, it's off site storage. Really. Its like a folder in Explorer except its located in the Cloud. Come on! It's located in the cloud. It's located on a server somewhere on the other end of your internet connection. That's all. Companies have been using this sort of technology for years. It's was never called the cloud back then. That's simply a bit more marketing hype - call something we already use by a trendy new name and watch the money roll in! I used to have some free disc space at Demon. It was there when I logged in on any computer, from any location. Granted it wasn't a drive mapped in explorer - but I have a network drive here that I can access from anywhere on the internet - but it's not cloud! It's network attached storage. I'm too much of a cynic I'm afraid to fall for the hype. I copy there is immediately replicated across all my PCs and physically reside there, as well as in the cloud. If my house burns down with my computers and backups I can still access my data from anywhere. This is exceedingly useful, I agree. But it's NAS, not cloud. Cloud should become inaccessible, I still have copies across my computers. Privacy? I only store zipped and encrypted files in DropBox unless I decide to share. Beware, if you mean your zip files have a password, do a quick Google for cracking zip passwords and be worried. I advise you get hold of something like Gnu Privacy Guard, crate yourself a pair of keys and use that to encrypt your data. Encrypt with the public key and decrypt with the private key. It's a lot safer than trusting a fairly easily broken zip file password. At work, and since before the Tax Man lost 29 million names, addresses and bank details, we have been using GPG (Gnu Privay Guard) on Windows and Linux to encrypt all data being sent off site. Each vendor must supply us with a public key before we will send them anything. A couple have refused, but when they didn't get the data, they soon capitulated! (I can be a right stubborn b'stard when I want to and when I'm protecting my sensitive data - I'm stubborn!) So its not all bad. It may not be the final word in computing paradigms, There's never going to be a final word in paradigms. When one has been here for 30 seconds, it's so last week! Think Ruby On Rails - where's that nowadays? but you dont NOT take the ferry because youre convinced that in ten years time therell be a bridge. B*gger! No wonder I never got across the water! ;-) Equally, it doesn't mean you have to be on the maiden voyage either. Think titanic. These DropBox guys dont at present seem to want to program you or rifle through your private papers. Yes, maybe. But do you really really know that 100%. You and I have no idea what happens to your data when you don't control it. I suppose they make their
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 18/06/10 00:42, Roy Wood wrote: It was the threading that I was referring to. Turnpike would put thum into subject threads but Thunderbird just puts them in a long, jumbled, list - just like Outlook! Well, mine are threaded, by subject, threads start with the initial posting and new stuff is added in date order, beneath. Oh and 'Reply' and 'Reply to list do the same thing. Maybe I have not set it up right but I don;t log on here much - except this week. Reply replies to the sender. Reply to List replies to a list or newsgroup. In the case of this list, the sender and the list are one and the same. In the case of the Oracle-L list I subscribe to, reply to sender send the email back to the poster and not to the list, reply to list does the opposite - oracle-l gets it, not the OP. (Well, the OP gets it from the list but not directly from me.) It's not you and not TBird that is at fault, it's simply the fact that the sender is the list in this case. That is ticked but does nothing. Also, if you check th ebox that says 'check spelling before sending you get an empty box when you try to send which says ;check word' but has no word in it. Tony on the Mac has a similar problem. I'm on Linux and I don't have either of the problems you mention. We are both on 3.0.4. I presume you are on Windows 7 and the same version? Funny how Linux is the only one that works. Free software is like that too sometimes, I agree. Mind you, commercial software is just as bad. Now, funnily enough, I was discussing this last night with 6 people in the Dive Club BSAC or PADI? I'm an old BSAC myself. because they all had various IT problems. All but 1 said they found the ribbon to be a far better way of accessing the functions (as do I) than the old menus system. I have to admit I tried it for a week a while back and hated it. Not just because it was different, just because it seems to take up an inordinate amount of screen space! I was ahead because, having come from a HOT_KEY enviroment I learnt the keyboard shortcuts. always amused me when you press 'CONTROL/V' and text appears and then PC dummies go 'How did you do that?' I use quite a few shortcuts myself too. It saves having to reach for the mouse, click, then type, then mouse, then . But also think usability. Jonathan Hudson wrote some great programs but no front ends so few people used them. They were not marketed so fewer people knew they existed. I have to admit to using a couple of JH's programs and it was true, there were no bells and frills. He was the master of minimalist programming I think. Not in the apps themselves, just in the frills department. I only occasionally heard of them though and that's when I got around to trying them out. They were never advertised at all as far as I remember. SNIP There you could not resist replying again - even though I have just driven back from a songwriting session in London. Now you have my full admiration there Roy. I do admire people who have talent - music, crafts or whatever. I have very little I'm afraid. I can play my digeridoo (now that gave the spell checker a headache!) as long as I don't have to circular breathe - I have yet to master that little nicety. Good luck with the songs. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Norman Dunbar wrote (an awful lot), on 20/Jun/10 20:52 | Jun20: Nice to see so much good stuff from you Norman - your silver sporran must contain good stuff.. ... and my check as you type speel checker is now working. I think I missed it as the underlines disappear randomly. The 'speel' above was underlined, but is now not. The one in the previous line is still there, but if I delete the new line before The it goes away. Clearly there are bugs. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c1e6efb.2070...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes On 19/06/10 20:00, P Witte wrote: But surely you see that it could spell then end of the Personal Computer, in which case the next great thing becomes significant and not merely a fad. They said that COBOL was dead. it lives on many many years after it's alleged demise. The reaosn being, there are still far too many apps written in COBOL to be rewritten in TNGT (The Next Great Thing). COBOL is still with us, 10 years after the Y2K problem. Think about how many laptops, desktops and so on there are, even tablets and netbooks. Hi Norman, Yet COBOL is not the next great thing ... :-) Rather, an old thing. As you say laptops have succeeded desktops, and netbooks have succeeded laptops. So, iPad like devices will succeed all of the above, and we will all be using them as they get more capable. Anyway, I still awaiting your dream ideas for the QL21 ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
A Scot with an iPad up his kilt? ooer missus, I hate to think! Now Dilwyn, we wear the sporran on the outside of the kilt. It's a glorified handbag/purse. There are no pockets on a kilt, so you have to put your wallet, chewing gum, loose change etc somewhere! Drat, foiled again. Anyway, Sporrans ain't big enough to hold iPads are they, surely??? Never mind a QL (there, back on topic) And wasn't there a QL adventure game called McSporran's Lament? (There, even more tenuously back on topic) Mine is a dead horse. That's what it is made from. And sterling silver of course! My wife, Alison, complained (jokingly) at the price I paid for it when I bought it as she's never paid that much for a handbag! You mean you've never spent that much on her, don't you??? :o) Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/2010 20:03, Norman Dunbar wrote: On 18/06/10 00:15, Tony Firshman wrote: I have that set but it doesn't spell check. Looks like a bug (3.0.4). That's interesting Tony. Roy on Windows and you on Mac and me on Linux, all using 3.0.4 (I think Roy mentioned 3.0.4) and only Linux can spell check as you type. Spooky! Works fine for me here. Thankfully. My only problem with it is when the words I type are correctly spelled/spelt but they are the wrong words! Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm 3.0.5 actually -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 20/06/2010 20:52, Norman Dunbar wrote: On 18/06/10 00:42, Roy Wood wrote: It was the threading that I was referring to. Turnpike would put thum into subject threads but Thunderbird just puts them in a long, jumbled, list - just like Outlook! Well, mine are threaded, by subject, threads start with the initial posting and new stuff is added in date order, beneath. Nope - not here - all jumbled up. Oh and 'Reply' and 'Reply to list do the same thing. Maybe I have not set it up right but I don;t log on here much - except this week. Reply replies to the sender. Reply to List replies to a list or newsgroup. In the case of this list, the sender and the list are one and the same. In the case of the Oracle-L list I subscribe to, reply to sender send the email back to the poster and not to the list, reply to list does the opposite - oracle-l gets it, not the OP. (Well, the OP gets it from the list but not directly from me.) It's not you and not TBird that is at fault, it's simply the fact that the sender is the list in this case. It did not work that way in Turnpike. If you hit private reply it replied direct to the sender and not the list. Free software is like that too sometimes, I agree. Mind you, commercial software is just as bad. Now, funnily enough, I was discussing this last night with 6 people in the Dive Club BSAC or PADI? I'm an old BSAC myself. I am a BSAC Dive Leader, Diver Cox and Open Water Instructor. Currently the clubs Diving Officer and just finishing the Advanced Diver course. SNIP. There you could not resist replying again - even though I have just driven back from a songwriting session in London. Now you have my full admiration there Roy. I do admire people who have talent - music, crafts or whatever. I have very little I'm afraid. I can play my digeridoo (now that gave the spell checker a headache!) as long as I don't have to circular breathe - I have yet to master that little nicety. Good luck with the songs. Well I don't know if I have talent. I enjoy writing, songs, blogs on my MySpace page and I used to enjoy writing the QL Today columns. Songs are the best because they are more personal. I do it, like I do everything really, purely for the fun of doing it. I leave it for others to decide if they are worth it or not. Like you I never got much feedback from the articles I wrote. One of my main problems in life was that, most of teh time, I never did anything for money. It never really interested me. These days I do a job I quite dislike so that is probably the first time in many years that I have done normal work. Everything else is just for fun. I spent all day yesterday running the siund, and providing the sound equipment for a local open air show. 11 hours work for free. But I had a great time. That is what life is all about. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 6/20/10, Roy Wood qbra...@qbranch.demon.co.uk wrote: Well I don't know if I have talent. I enjoy writing, songs, blogs on my MySpace page and I used to enjoy writing the QL Today columns. Songs are the best because they are more personal. I do it, like I do everything really, purely for the fun of doing it. I leave it for others to decide if they are worth it or not. Like you I never got much feedback from the articles I wrote. One of my main problems in life was that, most of teh time, I never did anything for money. It never really interested me. These days I do a job I quite dislike so that is probably the first time in many years that I have done normal work. Everything else is just for fun. I spent all day yesterday running the siund, and providing the sound equipment for a local open air show. 11 hours work for free. But I had a great time. That is what life is all about. you've got talent alright roy - that song communicate got inside my head many years ago, and grew roots - I have it on my iPod now and I love it along with the rage, happy, and lots of other stuff. I love the stuff you do. I keep promising myself I will catch a show live sometime soon and it never happens. keep having to make do with that rough shot DVD you sent me - I'll get there. cheers, darren. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
gdgqler wrote: On 17 Jun 2010, at 23:44, P Witte wrote: The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. Aha! But how do you program for this? George You dont. It programs you. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 19 Jun 2010, at 11:39, P Witte wrote: gdgqler wrote: On 17 Jun 2010, at 23:44, P Witte wrote: The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. Aha! But how do you program for this? George You dont. It programs you. Then it is of no interest ay all to me George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
George, The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, Aha! But how do you program for this? Cloud is the latest marketing paradigm/buzz word to hit the IT world. Like most other next great things it will pass and fade from memory. All it means is that instead of you or your company owning a pile of servers onto which you install and run stuff, like Oracle databases, WebLogic app servers and so on, huge companies like Amazon and (possibly) Google own the servers and you rent space on them as and when you need. You pay by the time used and if you need, say, to run a training course, switch on a few more processor cores (or whatever) and pay the extra for that training course only. The problem is, all your data is on Amazon's servers - do you know that Amazon are making the security work? How safe is your data? Who else can see it? It's fine under certain circumstances, but personally, I don't trust it. However, I have become very cynical with the IT business - having been in it far too long - and all these next great things that so far, have all come to nothing! Best avoided. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Norman Dunbar wrote: George, The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, Aha! But how do you program for this? Cloud is the latest marketing paradigm/buzz word to hit the IT world. Like most other next great things it will pass and fade from memory. All it means is that instead of you or your company owning a pile of servers onto which you install and run stuff, like Oracle databases, WebLogic app servers and so on, huge companies like Amazon and (possibly) Google own the servers and you rent space on them as and when you need. You pay by the time used and if you need, say, to run a training course, switch on a few more processor cores (or whatever) and pay the extra for that training course only. The problem is, all your data is on Amazon's servers - do you know that Amazon are making the security work? How safe is your data? Who else can see it? It's fine under certain circumstances, but personally, I don't trust it. However, I have become very cynical with the IT business - having been in it far too long - and all these next great things that so far, have all come to nothing! Best avoided. But surely you see that it could spell then end of the Personal Computer, in which case the next great thing becomes significant and not merely a fad. The issues you raise regarding privacy and security will be solved, otherwise this idea will vanish (until needed on some other occasion). The most common devices to access these vast resources may well look very different from our standard PCs of today. They could be small, always-online mobile devices with lots of bling and little brain. In other words smartphones or iPads or what have you. Of course there will be thousands of old fogeys, like me, and perhaps you, who wont take to all that jazz, but will continue to issue our curses and incantations over strange black boxes from another era, nay, civilisation. Still, I have a DropBox account, and find it very handy. Its like a folder in Explorer except its located in the Cloud. Anything I copy there is immediately replicated across all my PCs and physically reside there, as well as in the cloud. If my house burns down with my computers and backups I can still access my data from anywhere. If the Cloud should become inaccessible, I still have copies across my computers. Privacy? I only store zipped and encrypted files in DropBox unless I decide to share. So its not all bad. It may not be the final word in computing paradigms, but you dont NOT take the ferry because youre convinced that in ten years time therell be a bridge. These DropBox guys dont at present seem to want to program you or rifle through your private papers. I suppose they make their money by getting you addicted and then selling you more space above the two Gig free bait. Seems fair enough to me. Google Docs, Calendar, etc are really a peek into a possible future of Cloud Computing. (Is it true that Google is as big as General Motors?) If it is, they must be doing something right. It is right if it makes sense, but more often it is right if it makes a profit and so you make damned sure it makes sense too, by making every other way of doing things increasingly difficult and expensive, and finally obsolete. In the end it comes down to: Eat shit! A trillion flies cant be wrong! We all do it, you know. We all finally succumb to that scatological temptation. (Hands up all here with PCs! Right! See! I rest my case.) Per (feeling a bit strange after those tablets my doctor gave me %o$ ) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c1d13b9.10...@witte.fsbusiness.co.uk, P Witte p...@witte.fsbusiness.co.uk writes Norman Dunbar wrote: George, The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, Aha! But how do you program for this? Cloud is the latest marketing paradigm/buzz word to hit the IT world. Like most other next great things it will pass and fade from memory. All it means is that instead of you or your company owning a pile of servers onto which you install and run stuff, like Oracle databases, WebLogic app servers and so on, huge companies like Amazon and (possibly) Google own the servers and you rent space on them as and when you need. You pay by the time used and if you need, say, to run a training course, switch on a few more processor cores (or whatever) and pay the extra for that training course only. The problem is, all your data is on Amazon's servers - do you know that Amazon are making the security work? How safe is your data? Who else can see it? It's fine under certain circumstances, but personally, I don't trust it. However, I have become very cynical with the IT business - having been in it far too long - and all these next great things that so far, have all come to nothing! Best avoided. But surely you see that it could spell then end of the Personal Computer, in which case the next great thing becomes significant and not merely a fad. The issues you raise regarding privacy and security will be solved, otherwise this idea will vanish (until needed on some other occasion). The most common devices to access these vast resources may well look very different from our standard PCs of today. They could be small, always-online mobile devices with lots of bling and little brain. In other words smartphones or iPads or what have you. Of course there will be thousands of old fogeys, like me, and perhaps you, who wont take to all that jazz, but will continue to issue our curses and incantations over strange black boxes from another era, nay, civilisation. Still, I have a DropBox account, and find it very handy. Its like a folder in Explorer except its located in the Cloud. Anything I copy there is immediately replicated across all my PCs and physically reside there, as well as in the cloud. If my house burns down with my computers and backups I can still access my data from anywhere. If the Cloud should become inaccessible, I still have copies across my computers. Privacy? I only store zipped and encrypted files in DropBox unless I decide to share. So its not all bad. It may not be the final word in computing paradigms, but you dont NOT take the ferry because youre convinced that in ten years time therell be a bridge. These DropBox guys dont at present seem to want to program you or rifle through your private papers. I suppose they make their money by getting you addicted and then selling you more space above the two Gig free bait. Seems fair enough to me. Google Docs, Calendar, etc are really a peek into a possible future of Cloud Computing. (Is it true that Google is as big as General Motors?) If it is, they must be doing something right. It is right if it makes sense, but more often it is right if it makes a profit and so you make damned sure it makes sense too, by making every other way of doing things increasingly difficult and expensive, and finally obsolete. In the end it comes down to: Eat shit! A trillion flies cant be wrong! We all do it, you know. We all finally succumb to that scatological temptation. (Hands up all here with PCs! Right! See! I rest my case.) Per (feeling a bit strange after those tablets my doctor gave me %o$ ) Hi Per, Interesting stuff ... :-) I agree that the personal computer may just become another technological casualty as the 21st Century progresses. Devices like iPads look like being the way forward that most people will go for. After all PC's and the www, only really became popular to use by people who wanted to chat, play music, watch video, etc; and have it all relatively easily presented to them. I am looking forward to have an iPad like device myself, though, too ... although I would expect to make a wider use of it than just entertainment. I haven't tried the Cloud, yet I understand the advantages that you describe. I believe that Google are developing their own OS, which will no doubt be offered free. Anyway, I haven't heard any specifications, as yet for a QL21 - a QL inheritance device for the 21st Century . -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Anyway, I haven't heard any specifications, as yet for a QL21 - a QL inheritance device for the 21st Century . -- Malcolm Cadman I think it'd be great to have an online QL running in a browser - perhaps Java based or whatever. I seem to remember someone mentioning a ZX81 or Spectrum which would run in a browser. That way, you'd be free of the nuances of any particular QL emulator or QL compatible - wherever you are, fire up your browser and access the QL over an internet connection. Synchronised online storage space (there's plenty of free space providers) would ensure your files would be up to date no matter whether you were running it at home or away from home. Ah well, I can dream I suppose ... Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 6/19/10, Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I think it'd be great to have an online QL running in a browser - perhaps Java based or whatever. I seem to remember someone mentioning a ZX81 or Spectrum which would run in a browser. That way, you'd be free of the nuances of any particular QL emulator or QL compatible - wherever you are, fire up your browser and access the QL over an internet connection. Synchronised online storage space (there's plenty of free space providers) would ensure your files would be up to date no matter whether you were running it at home or away from home. Ah well, I can dream I suppose ... Dilwyn Jones Hi All, Yes - I'm here and alive and reading with great interest, although kids, and being in and out of work are keeping me busy, This is the best thread in ages !! I agree with Dilwyn - an online browser based QL is vey much needed - I use a ZX Spectrum one all the time via a Facebook app, great stress relief. :-) most of the games on World of Spectrum are available this way too. I would love to see Marcel work on converting QPC to run this way - Marcel, is this possible? If so, is much work involved? I certainly would'nt mind paying a few bob for the ability to pull up a working QL on ANY PC I happen to be working on - with an internet connection, or course. Darren. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Darren Branagh wrote: I would love to see Marcel work on converting QPC to run this way - Marcel, is this possible? If so, is much work involved? I certainly would'nt mind paying a few bob for the ability to pull up a working QL on ANY PC I happen to be working on - with an internet connection, or course. Well, if a few means about 5 and bob is Euros I might start considering it, but otherwise, life's too short, sorry ;) I'm no student anymore, time is very precious these days. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 6/19/10, Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: I am looking forward to have an iPad like device myself, though, too ... although I would expect to make a wider use of it than just entertainment. Why? its a toy. its an Apple iTouch on steroids. I had one for a while testing it (I'm working for the mobile phone network 3 at present, and they are interested in the 3G version for obvious reasons) and I pretty much hated it - dont get me wrong, its beautiful, it makes you go oh when you first use it, but a replacement for a good laptop it aint - its a nice toy, and an overpriced one at that - the eee pad (the iPad looking version of the cheap netbook eeepc that came out a few years ago) should be a better buy. And will probably run QPC too .now, a handheld touchscreen QL, wouldnt that be nice? I haven't tried the Cloud, yet I understand the advantages that you describe. For a basic idea of what its all about, try this :- http://eyeos.org/ And click on the try it now button. eye os is a cloud based computing platform, and quite good it is too; a lot of us use it in work and its great if you travel a lot - any internet cafe and you can easilt get at your desktop. I believe that Google are developing their own OS, which will no doubt be offered free. Yes - later this year hopefully, The Chrome OS. But we're heading waaayyy of topic now... Anyway, I haven't heard any specifications, as yet for a QL21 - a QL inheritance device for the 21st Century . back on topic againwell done!! I think the 21st centrury QL will exist online - as a Java applet or freeware emulator or similar must like the spectrum. I've love to have a QL emulator on my phone!! Cheers, Darren. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 6/19/10, Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net wrote: Darren Branagh wrote: I would love to see Marcel work on converting QPC to run this way - Marcel, is this possible? If so, is much work involved? I certainly would'nt mind paying a few bob for the ability to pull up a working QL on ANY PC I happen to be working on - with an internet connection, or course. Well, if a few means about 5 and bob is Euros I might start considering it, but otherwise, life's too short, sorry ;) I'm no student anymore, time is very precious these days. oh, well That answers that then!! :) If I come across fifty grand I dont need i'll give you a call:) What about QLAY, or Q-Emulator.. guys? Or writing one from scratch... anyone out there with the ability or the money :) Darren. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
P Witte wrote, on 19/Jun/10 20:00 | Jun19: Norman Dunbar wrote: George, The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, Aha! But how do you program for this? Cloud is the latest marketing paradigm/buzz word to hit the IT world. Like most other next great things it will pass and fade from memory. All it means is that instead of you or your company owning a pile of servers onto which you install and run stuff, like Oracle databases, WebLogic app servers and so on, huge companies like Amazon and (possibly) Google own the servers and you rent space on them as and when you need. You pay by the time used and if you need, say, to run a training course, switch on a few more processor cores (or whatever) and pay the extra for that training course only. The problem is, all your data is on Amazon's servers - do you know that Amazon are making the security work? How safe is your data? Who else can see it? It's fine under certain circumstances, but personally, I don't trust it. However, I have become very cynical with the IT business - having been in it far too long - and all these next great things that so far, have all come to nothing! Best avoided. But surely you see that it could spell then end of the Personal Computer, in which case the next great thing becomes significant and not merely a fad. The issues you raise regarding privacy and security will be solved, otherwise this idea will vanish (until needed on some other occasion). The most common devices to access these vast resources may well look very different from our standard PCs of today. They could be small, always-online mobile devices with lots of bling and little brain. In other words smartphones or iPads or what have you. Of course there will be thousands of old fogeys, like me, and perhaps you, who wont take to all that jazz, but will continue to issue our curses and incantations over strange black boxes from another era, nay, civilisation. Still, I have a DropBox account, and find it very handy. Its like a folder in Explorer except its located in the Cloud. Anything I copy there is immediately replicated across all my PCs and physically reside there, as well as in the cloud. If my house burns down with my computers and backups I can still access my data from anywhere. If the Cloud should become inaccessible, I still have copies across my computers. Privacy? I only store zipped and encrypted files in DropBox unless I decide to share. So its not all bad. It may not be the final word in computing paradigms, but you dont NOT take the ferry because youre convinced that in ten years time therell be a bridge. These DropBox guys dont at present seem to want to program you or rifle through your private papers. I suppose they make their money by getting you addicted and then selling you more space above the two Gig free bait. Seems fair enough to me. Google Docs, Calendar, etc are really a peek into a possible future of Cloud Computing. (Is it true that Google is as big as General Motors?) If it is, they must be doing something right. It is right if it makes sense, but more often it is right if it makes a profit and so you make damned sure it makes sense too, by making every other way of doing things increasingly difficult and expensive, and finally obsolete. In the end it comes down to: Eat shit! A trillion flies cant be wrong! We all do it, you know. We all finally succumb to that scatological temptation. (Hands up all here with PCs! Right! See! I rest my case.) well a Macbook (8-)# I guess I use a cloud of sorts - but it is: 1) VPN to my space on a Worldnews machine 2) Mapping a drive on my server in Maidenhead. I feel secure with these as I am in control and I *know* they have secure firewalls and logins, especially the WN VPN. I would not like to have my data unencrypted with a third party. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Darren Branagh wrote: If I come across fifty grand I dont need i'll give you a call:) Okay, I'll stay near the phone from now on :-D What about QLAY, or Q-Emulator.. guys? Or writing one from scratch... anyone out there with the ability or the money :) It'll have to be written from scratch in any case. The only advantage I'd have is a somewhat intimate knowledge of the system. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Malcolm Cadman wrote, on 19/Jun/10 20:45 | Jun19: Interesting stuff ... :-) I agree that the personal computer may just become another technological casualty as the 21st Century progresses. Devices like iPads look like being the way forward that most people will go for. After all PC's and the www, only really became popular to use by people who wanted to chat, play music, watch video, etc; and have it all relatively easily presented to them. I am looking forward to have an iPad like device myself, though, too ... although I would expect to make a wider use of it than just entertainment. ... well once it becomes a *real* multitasking computer. The first release is, to my mind, an early development version. I guess you have noticed it has the micro-sim - not yet reached the UK in phones. Current SIMs can be cut down and there is already an adaptor to std SIMs available. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 17 Jun 2010, at 23:44, P Witte wrote: The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. Aha! But how do you program for this? George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c1aa536.3070...@witte.fsbusiness.co.uk, P Witte p...@witte.fsbusiness.co.uk writes Damn, I missed all the fun as Orange havent delivered the mail for over a week ;o( Not even the message to tell me that I need to agree to their new conditions before I can use my mail account (via an email client or even their webmail interface). How dumb and unhelpful is that! Regarding floppies, No, you cant format DD disks in Vista or W7 as the native drivers dont support it. No problem reading them, though, and no problem formating HD disks from W7 or from within QPC - at least there shouldnt be. Solution: Copy your old stuff to HDDs and go on living! As for the QL future, I guess there aint any, at least not at the present (if that makes sense). Modern computers have evolved far beyond what was envisaged when the QL was young. Surely we dont need yet another way of doing the same old tired things any fool can now do with Linux, Windoze or Macs. The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. There is still the possibility that some of the seminal concepts from the QL era will come round again in a new form in the future, so its worthwhile hanging on in there and keeping it alive as best we can. And if not, weve still had our moneys worth! Per Hi Per, You are right to point out that what we call computing is moving on. Certainly in the office work environment there are many individual machines - now usually networked in some form - who knows what that will be like in just a few years time ? At home devices are all converging with many intelligent features embedded. Individual computers, as we have known them may then rapidly disappear in favour of the ipad style of machine. So, what will a QL21 - code name for a project for a 21st Century version of QL heritage - actually be like? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Evening Roy, On 16/06/10 20:32, Roy Wood wrote: Right, if you want to read what I am replying to you will have to go back to Norman's eloquent reply to my . well you get the picture. Eloquent? I've never been called that before! ;-) I fear I was a touch spartan when I referred to free software. Indeed, that's what started me on rant number one! I do use Firefox and some of the add-ons for that and there is a wonderful free application for Windows call 'Irfan View' which has the dual attribiutes of combining the fastest graphics viewing program I have found (for Windows) with a lot of useful functions and a great little front end for the scanner. I'm currently in the process of trying to get approval to use this utility at work. Government work and geological processes move at roughly the same speed. Irfan View is an excellent utility. I am typing this in Thunderbird (which I don't really like but Turnpike, which dealt with these lists much better, will not run on W7. Funnily enough, I never got to grips with Turnpike when I first started up with Demon. Thunderbird has been my email client of choice since it came out. I do admit to problem with version 3 and those damned smart folders (a bit like Word's Smart quotes in a way, neither of them are smart in the slightest!). Tony had similar troubles until I told him how to get back to normal folders. (Click the or arrows on the first tab until the caption says all folders - job done!) I'm not sure what you mean when you say that TBird doesn't handle these lists very well, mine is fine - I view the lists threaded and in descending date order. Works fine. I have not found how to turn on the speal chucker which is a pain because I can't type fro toefef - there see what I mean ? I have a similar problem. But even after about 30 years in IT, I still look at the keys when I'm typing, not the screen. For spell chequeing, there's a button at the top of the write window that spell cheques the selection or the entire email. To spell as you type, edit-preferences (on Linux anyway - mayne tools-options on Windows) then Composition, spelling tab and tick the enable spell checking as you type. To be a tad serious, what I meant was that, as a generalisation, a commercial program has to try to go that extra inch to look a bit better, be a bit more usable and generally sell itself, True, but as someone who has done work on commercial software in the UK and for a company in the US, the vast majority of the changes come about through the marketing department and not from the users. Bug fixes yes, trendy new .net layouts and whatever the current paradigm is, that's what marketing want. And that's regardless of the effect it has on the product. Free software is like that too sometimes, I slightly disagree this time! Most free software is done when it's done. The bells and whistles of, say Word's ribbon add little to the functionality of the application. Free word processors don't tend to go for the fancy look and feel, over and above what is necessary. In most cases! but very often it stops when the author thinks it should - not the user. The other aspects of commercial software are that it gets more advertising because someone is trying to sell it and, if it sells well it gets updated and improved because there is the feedback loop of getting a bit of cash for what you do. True, but see above under Marketing. In my view it all ground to a halt when there were no more new commercial programs. If there is no money coming back you can't afford to go to foriegn or far away shows so no shows so.another, less pleasant, feedback loop. Well, I only ever made enough money out of the QL to raise my tax levels by about £20 quid a year. That was at the height of my popularity. When I said the QL was a business machine I meant that was how it was marketed. Yes, that was a point I made as well, it never really had a real home or niche, like the Spectrum and ZX-81. Sold with a suite of office oriented programs and more expensive than the spectrums of the time it was aimed at the business user more than the gamer. Exactly, and it was not really of much use business wise. (I don't recall saying it was a 32 bit machine). You didn't, I did. I was ranting about the lack of a real home for the QL from day one, and mentioned that it was supposed to be 32 bit and wasn't. Marketing again! There were games for it but nothing the retro gamers would chop their left arm off to play again. True, not a sign of Jet Set Willy or Manic Miner. Scrabble was about the only game I played frequently. Until I got my Miracle Hard Drive - and then it refused to run! My point was that, if you are going to try to introduce people to the QL you will need something good- better than what we have now. Exactly. And we agree 100% on this fact. Nothing we have on the QL will impress a MAC or PC user and many of the QL programmers decamped and
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Damn, I missed all the fun as Orange havent delivered the mail for over a week ;o( Not even the message to tell me that I need to agree to their new conditions before I can use my mail account (via an email client or even their webmail interface). How dumb and unhelpful is that! Regarding floppies, No, you cant format DD disks in Vista or W7 as the native drivers dont support it. No problem reading them, though, and no problem formating HD disks from W7 or from within QPC - at least there shouldnt be. Solution: Copy your old stuff to HDDs and go on living! As for the QL future, I guess there aint any, at least not at the present (if that makes sense). Modern computers have evolved far beyond what was envisaged when the QL was young. Surely we dont need yet another way of doing the same old tired things any fool can now do with Linux, Windoze or Macs. The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. There is still the possibility that some of the seminal concepts from the QL era will come round again in a new form in the future, so its worthwhile hanging on in there and keeping it alive as best we can. And if not, weve still had our moneys worth! Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Damn, I missed all the fun as Orange havent delivered the mail for over a week ;o( Not even the message to tell me that I need to agree to their new conditions before I can use my mail account (via an email client or even their webmail interface). How dumb and unhelpful is that! On Orange broadband here and no end of annoying little problems even though no major outages. My big gripe is their tech helplines - foreign and totally incapable of appreciating (language permitting) that there can be any sort of problem, let alone what it is. They seem to have a we are Orange, we are perfect, therefore you must be wrong approach. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent beyond any whisker of doubt. Service slows right down in the afternoons when local kids come home from school - yet it's only a small village, god knows what it's be like in a big town. Or maybe that's the reason? Regarding floppies, No, you cant format DD disks in Vista or W7 as the native drivers dont support it. No problem reading them, though, and no problem formating HD disks from W7 or from within QPC - at least there shouldnt be. Solution: Copy your old stuff to HDDs and go on living! I suspect Rich might have been copying stuff for a customer onto DD disks when this thread started. Likewise, I get the occasional request for stuff on DD disks. Apart from archived old QL disks, I never use floppy disks for my own QLing any more. As for the QL future, I guess there aint any, at least not at the present (if that makes sense). Modern computers have evolved far beyond what was envisaged when the QL was young. Surely we dont need yet another way of doing the same old tired things any fool can now do with Linux, Windoze or Macs. The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. Using online applications is a bugbear here. Type something and then the whole thing stops while it's sent and handled. Part of the thrill of living in an area where dial-up is modern high tech I guess. There is still the possibility that some of the seminal concepts from the QL era will come round again in a new form in the future, so its worthwhile hanging on in there and keeping it alive as best we can. And if not, weve still had our moneys worth! Definitely. I think the one thing that came out of this discussion is that the QL has meant a lot to many of us and it still has its uses in knocking up a quick basic program to do a specific task. It's more than a quarter of a century old, discontinued a quarter of a century ago and people have said here they felt it never really knew its role in life. People still use ZX81s and Spectrums and other 1980s computers - I guess some of them are retro games machine whereas the QL has been more of a home programming machine in some ways. Either way, it's had a good innings even if it slowly passes away. It still has its uses for me but I can also see the day sometime in not too many years when it won't. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 17/06/2010 21:51, Norman Dunbar wrote: I am typing this in Thunderbird (which I don't really like but Turnpike, which dealt with these lists much better, will not run on W7. Funnily enough, I never got to grips with Turnpike when I first started up with Demon. Thunderbird has been my email client of choice since it came out. I do admit to problem with version 3 and those damned smart folders (a bit like Word's Smart quotes in a way, neither of them are smart in the slightest!). Tony had similar troubles until I told him how to get back to normal folders. (Click the or arrows on the first tab until the caption says all folders - job done!) I'm not sure what you mean when you say that TBird doesn't handle these lists very well, mine is fine - I view the lists threaded and in descending date order. Works fine. It was the threading that I was referring to. Turnpike would put thum into subject threads but Thunderbird just puts them in a long, jumbled, list - just like Outlook! Oh and 'Reply' and 'Reply to list do the same thing. Maybe I have not set it up right but I don;t log on here much - except this week. I have not found how to turn on the speal chucker which is a pain because I can't type fro toefef - there see what I mean ? I have a similar problem. But even after about 30 years in IT, I still look at the keys when I'm typing, not the screen. For spell chequeing, there's a button at the top of the write window that spell cheques the selection or the entire email. To spell as you type, edit-preferences (on Linux anyway - mayne tools-options on Windows) then Composition, spelling tab and tick the enable spell checking as you type. That is ticked but does nothing. Also, if you check th ebox that says 'check spelling before sending you get an empty box when you try to send which says ;check word' but has no word in it. Free software is like that too sometimes, I slightly disagree this time! Most free software is done when it's done. The bells and whistles of, say Word's ribbon add little to the functionality of the application. Free word processors don't tend to go for the fancy look and feel, over and above what is necessary. In most cases! Now, funnily enough, I was discussing this last night with 6 people in the Dive Club because they all had various IT problems. All but 1 said they found the ribbon to be a far better way of accessing the functions (as do I) than the old menus system. I was ahead because, having come from a HOT_KEY enviroment I learnt the keyboard shortcuts. always amused me when you press 'CONTROL/V' and text appears and then PC dummies go 'How did you do that?' but very often it stops when the author thinks it should - not the user. The other aspects of commercial software are that it gets more advertising because someone is trying to sell it and, if it sells well it gets updated and improved because there is the feedback loop of getting a bit of cash for what you do. True, but see above under Marketing. But also think usability. Jonathan Hudson wrote some great programs but no front ends so few people used them. They were not marketed so fewer people knew they existed. In my view it all ground to a halt when there were no more new commercial programs. If there is no money coming back you can't afford to go to foriegn or far away shows so no shows so.another, less pleasant, feedback loop. Well, I only ever made enough money out of the QL to raise my tax levels by about £20 quid a year. That was at the height of my popularity. It was more a case of making a smaller loss! Sold with a suite of office oriented programs and more expensive than the spectrums of the time it was aimed at the business user more than the gamer. Exactly, and it was not really of much use business wise. To be fair, about as much use as any other computer of its time - once it was finished that is. It just did not grow (or get marketed) as fast as the other machines. Must get back behind taht parapet. Still it has been a lively discussion. Well, I for one have certainly enjoyed it! Thanks. There you could not resist replying again - even though I have just driven back from a songwriting session in London. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 17/06/2010 23:59, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Damn, I missed all the fun as Orange havent delivered the mail for over a week ;o( Not even the message to tell me that I need to agree to their new conditions before I can use my mail account (via an email client or even their webmail interface). How dumb and unhelpful is that! On Orange broadband here and no end of annoying little problems even though no major outages. My big gripe is their tech helplines - foreign and totally incapable of appreciating (language permitting) that there can be any sort of problem, let alone what it is. They seem to have a we are Orange, we are perfect, therefore you must be wrong approach. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent beyond any whisker of doubt. Service slows right down in the afternoons when local kids come home from school - yet it's only a small village, god knows what it's be like in a big town. Or maybe that's the reason? My main gripe with ADSL providers is that they never consider that poor speeds and connection issues may be a problem with the line - they don't want to call in BT engineers, even when you are paying them the line rental. I eventually decided to move back to BT, when my broadband dropped to below 300Kbps and Talk Talk were telling me that my line could only support 512Kbps anyway, so the 300 was a result of the contention ratio (that was despite the fact I was getting 2.5Mbps with Tiscali before Talk Talk took them over). Switched to BT and they sent out an engineer to find the line was corroded at the point it came into the house. Regarding floppies, No, you cant format DD disks in Vista or W7 as the native drivers dont support it. No problem reading them, though, and no problem formating HD disks from W7 or from within QPC - at least there shouldnt be. Solution: Copy your old stuff to HDDs and go on living! I suspect Rich might have been copying stuff for a customer onto DD disks when this thread started. Likewise, I get the occasional request for stuff on DD disks. Apart from archived old QL disks, I never use floppy disks for my own QLing any more. Yes I have to still make up DD disks for customers when they order software. But Per and others, have probably missed my comment. The point is, is that I can sometimes format DD disks in W7 - I just have to unplug and replug in my USB disk drive a few times, to get it to work eventually. There must be some drivers about somewhere which will work reliably on W7 ! As for the QL future, I guess there aint any, at least not at the present (if that makes sense). Modern computers have evolved far beyond what was envisaged when the QL was young. Surely we dont need yet another way of doing the same old tired things any fool can now do with Linux, Windoze or Macs. The current trend appears to be towards Cloud computing, where data storage and even processing power is an off-site, on-line service. Thats a major paradigm shift - back to square one, some three or four generations ago. Using online applications is a bugbear here. Type something and then the whole thing stops while it's sent and handled. Part of the thrill of living in an area where dial-up is modern high tech I guess. There is still the possibility that some of the seminal concepts from the QL era will come round again in a new form in the future, so its worthwhile hanging on in there and keeping it alive as best we can. And if not, weve still had our moneys worth! Definitely. I think the one thing that came out of this discussion is that the QL has meant a lot to many of us and it still has its uses in knocking up a quick basic program to do a specific task. It's more than a quarter of a century old, discontinued a quarter of a century ago and people have said here they felt it never really knew its role in life. People still use ZX81s and Spectrums and other 1980s computers - I guess some of them are retro games machine whereas the QL has been more of a home programming machine in some ways. Either way, it's had a good innings even if it slowly passes away. It still has its uses for me but I can also see the day sometime in not too many years when it won't. Well, contrary to popular opinion on the list, I still see a future in the QL market. Yes, many of my 600+ QL customers have come to me to purchase a membrane, or items of software to collect, but many of them (50-60%) have gone on to purchase other items too, including games, disk drives and other items which suggest that they are doing more than just collecting computers. It does not help that Quanta do not actively work to promote the QL apart from running the odd show (well, not to my knowledge). I mentioned some months ago about going to the Vintage Computer Festival, but it was down to me to suggest that they let me have some membership forms, and a banner to display, along with Quanta magazines - even then, I had to print off the membership forms
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 15 Jun 2010, at 19:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). SNIP Doesen't work here on XP with an USB drive (which is recognized as flp1_) Writing and reading is ok, but formatting just makes the drive accessing and stoping on and on, whithout any results. Cheers...Ralf Time to summon Marcel and Jochen to see if they can shed any light on this, I guess! The drive which consistently works for me is Packard Bell UFD-100 George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Am Mittwoch, den 16.06.2010, 11:32 +0100 schrieb gdgqler: On 15 Jun 2010, at 19:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). SNIP Doesen't work here on XP with an USB drive (which is recognized as flp1_) Writing and reading is ok, but formatting just makes the drive accessing and stoping on and on, whithout any results. Cheers...Ralf Time to summon Marcel and Jochen to see if they can shed any light on this, I guess! The drive which consistently works for me is Packard Bell UFD-100 George I have a Fuji USB drive which works perfectly well using QPC XP (read, write, format), but constatnly fails formatting a DD in Windows 7. Read and write works reliably, though. So it's probably a mix of Windows device driver problem (if it gives problems in XP) and a general lack of implemented support in Windows 7. Just to give a hint to people having problems using USB floppies and XP: The floppy drivers are pretty much interchangable - i.e. you might be able to solve a USB floppy problem by switching to another vendor's driver (Albeit that I would assume this wouldn't cure the Windows 7 problems) Cheers, Tobias. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 15 Jun 2010, at 23:29, Roy Wood wrote: The QL was a business computer in concept. Very few games of any note. Right now, as was pointed out earlier, there is no decent word processor and no other, modern, usable, software. QPC2 runs just fine on my W7 machine, but why would I use it? If I was a new user what would make me want to buy it and run it? I use QPC2 for doing horrible things like tax returns for which I wrote Archive programs a very long time ago. Rewriting for a PC or whatever is just not an option for me. I also use QPC2 for programming, both in SBASIC especially for quick one off results, and in Assembler. I have tried Visual Basic on a PC and I did not like it. Assembler on Intel chips is pretty ghastly. A new user of QPC2, say, would, I imagine, almost certainly want to use it for programming - and almost certainly not for the word processors etc available. Quite obviously, QPC2 would not be an alternative to a PC but would be one of the applications a PC could run. On my W7 and XP machines I run music software, word processing and spreadsheets, email, photo manipulation and website creation software. What is there on the QL side of things that matches this? The QL was fun to program in SuperBASIC ( I never got any further) and, back 18 years ago, would multitask when most PCs could not (nor can the iPAD), but it was rapidly overtaken by modern hardware and software. What I was saying before still applies. If you want to keep it alive you need to keep the scene alive. You need innovation and you need some sort of commercial operation. I know that there are a whole bumch of 'free software' guerillas out there but no free software has ever matched the commercial stuff - sad as that may be. Hm. I thought Firefox was free software. When RBS stopped allowing me to use Safari on an IMAC for their online banking I had to use the PC's version of Firefox, which RBS accepted. I also use, on a PC, a free version of a screen grabber. (On QPC2 I prefer my own!) George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 15/06/10 23:29, Roy Wood wrote: Hi Roy, good to hear from you. Hope you are well. I know that there are a whole bumch of 'free software' guerillas out there That'll be me then! ;-) but no free software has ever matched the commercial stuff - sad as that may be. Forgive me, but that is total bullsh*t! I presume you use the internet then? What's running most of it is not commercial software, but Apache, PHP, HTML, XML etc. Note, nothing there out of Redmond - there are a few IIS servers out there serving up web pages, I grant you, but last time I saw the official figures, over 70% of the internet was running on Apache. Apache is free and as I have to look after both it and IIS at work, guess which one I *don't* have to spend much time with? (Clue: It's not IIS) Linux too, which I know from the past you simply don't like, that's free and much more reliable than Windows. I presume you have heard of Microsoft's Express editions of SQL Server (that's like a database!), Visual C++, Visual Basic et al - they are free and of decent enough quality - they are just restricted versions of the production versions after all. Oracle, that's commercial, it's also free in the XE version. Free for commercial, non-commercial or any use you like, without a need to pay (huge!) sums of money to Oracle. Firefox, Opera - decent standards compliant browsers, IE8 - still not CSS compliant, never has been and I suspect, never will be. Thunderbird too. Need a free (open source) database? Try Firebird, PostGresSQL (Spelling?) - the list of quality free software is quite substantial. Now, there are only a few examples there, but all are free (as in no-cost, not necessarily Free as in you are free to do with it as you please) and all, with the exception of SQL Server (!), are quality. Ok, rant over. I agree with most of your other comments though. The QL is dead, long ago. It was dead really before it started out in life in my opinion, but that never stopped me having 5 of the damned things! It was a 32 bit machine, erm no it bloody wasn't! It was a business machine - fraid not. The QL never knew what it actually was - unlike the Spectrum and ZX-81 (my other Sinclairs) which did have their own niche in the market. There is no point, really, in bringing it back to life - it never had one to start with! I think QUANTA was well named, Tinkerers, that's what we QL users are really. We tinker with a machine, making it do things it was never designed to do, and we have fun! I agree that some poeple ran a business using the QL - doing so, probably taught them the meaning of make a backup - mine used to hang every time the fridge or freezer turned on, most irritating. The PC has never done so. If we try to raise the QL above the hobby and tinkerer level, we won't attract new users (in my opinion) simply because, as you say, you can do word processing, spreadsheets, graphics, photos, databases, video editing, programming in dog knows how many different languages, just about anything in fact. (Ok, maybe not magazine production, quality music or real graphic artistry - you'd most likely use a Mac for that) but the quality is far superior to anything the QL can provide. But then again, the QL is circa 1984 and this is 2010 and Moore's Law still applies. Mind you, I'd love to see a PC doing so well with only 32KB or ROM and 128 KB of RAM! And as for Windows 7, don't start me off again! It's being heavily advertised on TV at the moment. How wonderful that I can save mouse clicks by only having to click once to launch a program - gee, I've been doing that on Linux since at least 2001. And auto aligning windows please, get real. Linux (X11) always has done! And these are the best bits of Windows 7? I have it on this laptop, and I'm sticking with Linux. That's my opinion, you probably think otherwise, that's allowed too! I do get a tad teed off when people slag off Linux or Windows without giving it proper thought and without trying it. (Not accusing you of this by the way - I don't know how long you tried Linux for, or how long ago!) They are two different ways of doing what you want to do, if something works for you, stick with it and be happy. That's what I've done. I remember a long time ago you complaining that what you hated about Linux was having to use the root account to do things and your own account for normal work. Welcome to secure computing - I happen to work with may systems and each has an admin account of some sort, even Windows these days. (Although on XP, the administrator account is supplied with no password! Guess why so many XP boxes are running as zombies now?) However, as I said, each to their own. If it works, so be it. I will never abandon it completely because it taught me a lot of the fundamental principles of computing. I have a lot of affection for it and for many of the people in the QL community because we did all those shows and we went through all that but you have to take off the
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
Right, if you want to read what I am replying to you will have to go back to Norman's eloquent reply to my . well you get the picture. I fear I was a touch spartan when I referred to free software. I do use Firefox and some of the add-ons for that and there is a wonderful free application for Windows call 'Irfan View' which has the dual attribiutes of combining the fastest graphics viewing program I have found (for Windows) with a lot of useful functions and a great little front end for the scanner. I am typing this in Thunderbird (which I don't really like but Turnpike, which dealt with these lists much better, will not run on W7. I have not found how to turn on the speal chucker which is a pain because I can't type fro toefef - there see what I mean ? To be a tad serious, what I meant was that, as a generalisation, a commercial program has to try to go that extra inch to look a bit better, be a bit more usable and generally sell itself, Free software is like that too sometimes, but very often it stops when the author thionks it should - not the user. The other aspects of commercial software are that it gets more advertising because someone is trying to sell it and, if it sells well it gets updated and improved because there is the feedback loop of getting a bit of cash for what you do. In my view it all ground to a halt when there were no more new commercial programs. If there is no money coming back you can't afford to go to foriegn or far away shows so no shows so.another, less pleasant, feedback loop. When I said the QL was a business machine I meant that was how it was marketed. Sold with a suite of office oriented programs and more expensive than the spectrums of the time it was aimed at the business user more than the gamer. (I don't recall saying it was a 32 bit machine). There were games for it but nothing the retro gamers would chop their left arm off to play again. My point was that, if you are going to try to introduce people to the QL you will need something good - better than what we have now. Nothing we have on the QL will impress a MAC or PC user and many of the QL programmers decamped and pitched their tents in LINUX city so you won't get many from there either. The problem is that all the people who want to do this 'show the QL to a wider public; trick can are doing it from inside their own little bit of QL World. It is the things they like that they push. All very natural, of course but, if you are really going to try to present it to a new public you have to find a trick, a gimmick, a good game (QWord is pretty cool, I think) a neat application, something to excite the vapid general public who watch X Factor and Big Brother, by iPads and still think a man who can kick a ball can be a genius. You see, all the users left in the QL circle now are either tinkerers of people who use Quill, Nothing wrong with that except, when you open the door to a new vistor it is like saying, 'Come in, have a fish paste sandwich, make yourself a chair and sit down'. BTW yes I hated the root account in LINUX when I tried it and I also hated the way I had to tell it there was a hard drive and there was a CD. I tried it again, post Q40, on an old PC that I had here and I hated searching for drivers and being snottily told I could write them myself, or adapt them myself. I gather it is better now but I wanted it to work without my having to program it. Just like this machine did. I have other things to do - like the thing that I built the machine for. I have a W7 machine because, when my old motherboard popped its caps a couple of months ago I built a new one and put W7 on it so I knew my way round the O/S because people still ask me to fix the mess they make of their machines. It's fast, sometimes annoying and overly flashy but it runs 95% of the programs I need and, apart from card readers ( which seemto consistently not work), I can plug any piece of hardware in , off the shelf, and they work too. I am not trying to be negative just to show you what you are up against and to get you to look out from the circle of users you have and see the world from a no QL Users point of view. Must get back behind taht parapet. Still it has been a lively discussion. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c17fed1.9080...@qbranch.demon.co.uk, Roy Wood qbra...@qbranch.demon.co.uk writes On 15/06/2010 21:58, Malcolm Cadman wrote: SNIP There is an audience for retro computers - of which the QL is one. A software package, or easy access to free or low cost software, would be essential to tempt users in. As they need to see something to be done with the system - and will not be interested in finding it all out for themselves. Once interest is kindled, then users will get interested in acquiring original hardware and original add-ons, as well as using the emulator(s) on PC hardware ( or others ). Most users, on this list, are not a part of this target market - as most already have several QL hardware items, and a lot of software; plus long experience. The latter need tempting in a different way, by some new hardware or software, for the 21st Century - as the QL was a 20th Century invention. I have QDT, which I use all of the time as the main desktop for a QL system. Yet it is not finished - the file manager side is not complete; and it lacks a lot of other functionality. I also use Launchpad to compensate for QDT's deficiencies in the file management area. Both Quanta and QL Today could be involved in this type of promotion of the QL. OK - head above the parapet again and , to quote Sir Henry, 'first chink of reality and youre dead' I spent a lot of time, enthusiasm and energy on the QL (not as much as Tony, Dilwyn and Jochen, but enough). The approach of saying 'here is a free emulator, now look at what we have' is fine except...what do we have? The QL was a business computer in concept. Very few games of any note. Right now, as was pointed out earlier, there is no decent word processor and no other, modern, usable, software. QPC2 runs just fine on my W7 machine, but why would I use it? If I was a new user what would make me want to buy it and run it? On my W7 and XP machines I run music software, word processing and spreadsheets, email, photo manipulation and website creation software. What is there on the QL side of things that matches this? The QL was fun to program in SuperBASIC ( I never got any further) and, back 18 years ago, would multitask when most PCs could not (nor can the iPAD), but it was rapidly overtaken by modern hardware and software. What I was saying before still applies. If you want to keep it alive you need to keep the scene alive. You need innovation and you need some sort of commercial operation. I know that there are a whole bumch of 'free software' guerillas out there but no free software has ever matched the commercial stuff - sad as that may be. I will never abandon it completely because it taught me a lot of the fundamental principles of computing. I have a lot of affection for it and for many of the people in the QL community because we did all those shows and we went through all that but you have to take off the rose tinted goggles and take a hard look at what you are promoting - and then decide what you do from here. Hi Roy, I am glad that you are back on the QL scene - we need some good debate ... :-) Rich Mellor has pointed out, several times, how successful other retro computers are now being ( a new life ). The QL can be the same - although to a smaller segment - and again Rich has shown the way with his creation of the QL Wiki. Which has also included bringing out the games that are available for the QL. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Roy Wood wrote: Well, I've lurked on the list for a while since I hung up the QBranch boots in the closet but recent posts deserve some comment I suppose. Welcome back (back from lurking, I mean). I will start with the floppy issue. Way back when I was doing lots of shows I decided that you could not format DD disks under QPC2 on any of my PCs. In fact I brought a QL / Aurora and monitor to many shows just to format disks. Firstly it was far too slow and secondly it failed too often. I was not typing it in at the command line because that was too slow at a show. Formatting was haphazard and took ages. I mentioned it on several occasions and got the usual 'does not happen here' response. Understandably hard to pin down. I did, however, find that formatting the disks using Disk Mate 5 usually worked fine - on all of the systems - so I hazard the guess that it is not a problem with Microsoft but something else. I have have not tried under Windows 7 on this sytem but then it is hardly surprising that the ability to format a 20+ year old disk has been removed from a new system. This is like complaining that your CD player won't play 78s.No one uses floppy disks any more. Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). Sounds like we'll have to keep a QL just to keep formatting DD disks for those who still use the dear old black boxes. Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' I was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. Fair point - sounds like the Roy Wood we knew and loved for telling it straight. QDT and my Launchpad were programs written in response to requests. When they came out, only a tiny percentage of QL users actually bought them. Actually, there has been a recent survey to update the last one Quanta did. Hopefully we'll all know the results very soon. Then we'll know hopefully how many use basic QLs, how many use emulators, how many don't use PE, how many have GD2 systems and whatever. We might even see a situation where to all intents and purposes no two users have the same system (well, ok, I doubt that but you know what I mean) In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward with ideas flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) If you knew it was in Quanta and knew it was wrong, nothing to stop you telling Quanta to correct it either??? If people know the information is wrong, why let it go on being wrong??? Although I wasn't charged with that particular sub-groups issue, the virtually zero response I got when trying to sort out the list of international groups was pretty heartbreaking. I gave up in the end and just printed what info I had. Taking off my Quanta hat for a moment and speaking personally, it's easy to criticise organisations like Quanta. Geoff Wicks has said enough about the Quanta committee being dominated by NEMQLUG (Manchester group) members, but has been realistic enough to realise that had it not been for the likes of John and Sarah Gilpin the organisation might have been in danger of folding already due to apathy and lack of interest from anyone else. Many in the committee, myself included, have to double or triple up on duties. John has given so much time between the magazine, treasurer and membership duties. Indeed, had
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 15 Jun 2010, at 11:43, Dilwyn Jones wrote: the QL and Aurora are only brought out for the specific use fo testing programs or, sorry Rich, formatting DD disks for the very occasional Quanta library request. It seems as if I am the only person actually able to format blank DD disks using QPC2 and Windows XP. Perhaps its because I have a Packard Bell floppy reader. Perhaps those wanting DDs formatted should send them to me! George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
the QL and Aurora are only brought out for the specific use fo testing programs or, sorry Rich, formatting DD disks for the very occasional Quanta library request. It seems as if I am the only person actually able to format blank DD disks using QPC2 and Windows XP. Perhaps its because I have a Packard Bell floppy reader. Perhaps those wanting DDs formatted should send them to me! George I can format DD on Windows XP with the built in floppy drive, but the USB floppy drive doesn't usually want to know. Probably as someone suggested it doesn't have the sensor for disk type. In the case of these modern USB floppy drives, I think the issue is more likely to be the drives themselves on Windows XP systems. Of course, the issue is probably completely different with Rich's Windows 7 as DD floppy disk support has been removed from Windows by Windows 7. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
SNIP Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). Well it was the same with native, on board drives too.. SNIP nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was If you knew it was in Quanta and knew it was wrong, nothing to stop you telling Quanta to correct it either??? I did mention it a few times - but at shows. I must confess I was also lax in not notifying them formally. SNIP It would be great to hear from people explaining why they DON'T want to go on committee. Surely it can't all be down to lack of time? We don't have to travel much to committee meetings, modern technology means we can do most work by email or telephone or conferencing and just meet up once or twice a year as necessary to sort out the major issues. Oh I know why people don't want to go on a committee. Firstly they would have to do something and secondly they can no longer carp and criticise from the sidelines. Simple. I am Diving Officer for the Dive Club so that puts me just under teh Chairman on the committee. I know how that works. SNIP I'll continue pouring out mediocre programs and supporting the QL, but although I didn't always agree with Geoff's sometimes negative viewpoints in QL Today, it's hard to see the QL having a lifetime of more than 3 to 5 years the way it's going (in other words, I often agree with him more than I think). OK, it'll always be handy to be able to write quick s*basic programs for my own use while I still have a working QL emulator (and the PC is the only computer in regular use here at the moment - the QL and Aurora are only brought out for the specific use fo testing programs or, sorry Rich, formatting DD disks for the very occasional Quanta library request. I would never say you wrote mediocre programs. You and Geoff wrote some really innovative stuff. SNIP OK, that's my rant over! Keep prodding, Roy, the QL community could do with a good kick up the rear end sometimes. Dilwyn Jones I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion And running a series of training sessions for the Dive Club. BTW one other reason that Rich has a long mailing list is probably that he sells on EBAY. Maybe a Quanta shop there would generate some interest. You will also find a lot of people who just want to buy a part to go with the QL in teh glass case that they house their 'retro computers' in - along wit their collection of 'dust through the ages'. What you need is not people who look back but those who are willing to turn around and look in the other direction - and face what they see. Still I will continue to (sporadically) read the list. (feel free to print all/some/none of my comments in Quanta. I may even splutter into incoherance angain. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Roy Wood wrote: SNIP Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). SNIP Doesen't work here on XP with an USB drive (which is recognized as flp1_) Writing and reading is ok, but formatting just makes the drive accessing and stoping on and on, whithout any results. Cheers...Ralf ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Roy/ I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion Seems a mite borken (whoops - but because that was a superb accidental mistype I will leave it). I am getting Sorry. messages and the CD link does nothing. Are you paying for that myspace site? I could offer free space on my server, and, if you have a wooden lion domain name, you could use that without advertising the host. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Tony Firshman wrote, on 15/Jun/10 19:25 | Jun15: Roy/ I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion Seems a mite borken (whoops - but because that was a superb accidental mistype I will leave it). I am getting Sorry. messages and the CD link does nothing. Are you paying for that myspace site? I could offer free space on my server, and, if you have a wooden lion domain name, you could use that without advertising the host. That was meant to be private but but I forgot to edit the address- so reply to me personally please, Roy. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Sounds like the same experience I had. Totally unpredictable results on that particular USB floppy drive (well, might be predictable to someone like Marcel who knows the underlying code). SNIP Doesen't work here on XP with an USB drive (which is recognized as flp1_) Writing and reading is ok, but formatting just makes the drive accessing and stoping on and on, whithout any results. Cheers...Ralf Time to summon Marcel and Jochen to see if they can shed any light on this, I guess! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Dilwyn Jones wrote: Time to summon Marcel and Jochen to see if they can shed any light on this, I guess! No idea. This is up to the hardware driver and I have no insight whatsoever into this. I just do the right calls in QPC and either it works after that, or it doesn't. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
It would be great to hear from people explaining why they DON'T want to go on committee. Surely it can't all be down to lack of time? We don't have to travel much to committee meetings, modern technology means we can do most work by email or telephone or conferencing and just meet up once or twice a year as necessary to sort out the major issues. Oh I know why people don't want to go on a committee. Firstly they would have to do something and secondly they can no longer carp and criticise from the sidelines. Simple. I am Diving Officer for the Dive Club so that puts me just under teh Chairman on the committee. I know how that works. OK, I guess that explains that ;-) Actually, my partner Ann is on the committee of a craft association - I guess she'd probably say exactly the same thing. I would never say you wrote mediocre programs. You and Geoff wrote some really innovative stuff. Nice of you to say that - I feel better now! Actually, don't tell Geoff, but I use some of his programs quite a lot ;-) ...even if they have mis-spelled my name twice in two issues :o) I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion And running a series of training sessions for the Dive Club. OK, will take a look later on. Do QLers get a discount on the album? ;-) BTW one other reason that Rich has a long mailing list is probably that he sells on EBAY. Maybe a Quanta shop there would generate some interest. Actually, Rich has sold quite a lot of gear Quanta has acquired - John Gilpin will confirm that. You will also find a lot of people who just want to buy a part to go with the QL in teh glass case that they house their 'retro computers' in - along wit their collection of 'dust through the ages'. Nobody denies that - I get a lot of contact from retro users via my website. The other type of contact I get is ex-QL users dusting off their QLs once more and realising that emulators etc open up a new world of nostalgia for them. I do try to steer them in the direction of QL Today and Quanta, but never really know how successful I am about pointing people in various directions. My pages about returning to the QL, PC/QL file transfer, zip/unzip and serial links get respectable numbers of hits, so there's obviously people looking at all this info, but I just don't know where it all leads in the end. What you need is not people who look back but those who are willing to turn around and look in the other direction - and face what they see. Agreed. Still I will continue to (sporadically) read the list. (feel free to print all/some/none of my comments in Quanta. I may even splutter into incoherance angain. ;-) Good to hear from you again - keep spluttering into incoherence! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
I could offer free space on my server, and, if you have a wooden lion domain name, you could use that without advertising the host. That was meant to be private but but I forgot to edit the address- so reply to me personally please, Roy. Tony Since it accidentally got onto this list, I'll just comment that I do buy space for my website off Tony and NONE of the few glitches with my website have been down to him or his servers... highly recommended. /end of free advert for TF Services... Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 15/06/2010 19:25, Tony Firshman wrote: Roy/ I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion Seems a mite borken (whoops - but because that was a superb accidental mistype I will leave it). I am getting Sorry. messages and the CD link does nothing. Are you paying for that myspace site? I could offer free space on my server, and, if you have a wooden lion domain name, you could use that without advertising the host. Tony MySpace is a free social networking site - where have you been? I just clicked on it and it worked straight away. The bands actual website is hosted by a friend of mine. www.woodenlion.com Way too off topic. Roy -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 15/Jun/10 19:42 | Jun15: I could offer free space on my server, and, if you have a wooden lion domain name, you could use that without advertising the host. That was meant to be private but but I forgot to edit the address- so reply to me personally please, Roy. Tony Since it accidentally got onto this list, I'll just comment that I do buy space for my website off Tony and NONE of the few glitches with my website have been down to him or his servers... highly recommended. /end of free advert for TF Services... Thanks. It runs in a datacentre in Maidenhead, and has (touch wood) never crashed or had to be re-booted. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 15/06/2010 19:39, Dilwyn Jones wrote: SNIP BTW one other reason that Rich has a long mailing list is probably that he sells on EBAY. Maybe a Quanta shop there would generate some interest. Actually, Rich has sold quite a lot of gear Quanta has acquired - John Gilpin will confirm that. The point was that, if Quanta had their own shop people would the seeQUANTA. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Roy Wood wrote, on 15/Jun/10 20:06 | Jun15: snip MySpace is a free social networking site - where have you been? Working. I just clicked on it and it worked straight away. Doesn't work for me (8-)# The bands actual website is hosted by a friend of mine. www.woodenlion.com Way too off topic. (8-)# -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion Seems a mite borken (whoops - but because that was a superb accidental mistype I will leave it). I am getting Sorry. messages and the CD link does nothing. I did manage to listen to it, or rather I did the second time when I realised my speakers weren't switched on the first time...doh, beware ex broadcast techie at work :o( Dilwyn ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 15/Jun/10 20:16 | Jun15: I may not raise my head above th e parapet too much. I am in the throes for finishing my Album - those who are interested can get a taste at www.myspace.com/thatlegendarywoodenlion Seems a mite borken (whoops - but because that was a superb accidental mistype I will leave it). I am getting Sorry. messages and the CD link does nothing. I did manage to listen to it, or rather I did the second time when I realised my speakers weren't switched on the first time...doh, beware ex broadcast techie at work :o( Temporary glitch evidentally. Working now. Mind you sound (and therefore CD) is not the best media. You have to *see* as well as hear. His outfits, makeup, acting and effects (as well as singing and playing) are superb. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
In message 4c16cc82.9090...@genesis-midi.com, Phil Kett pk...@genesis-midi.com writes On 15/06/2010 00:15, Roy Wood wrote: Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) This may all seem a bit harsh but, like a jolt to the heart in teh case case of cardiac arrest, sometimes you need a defibrilator to restore a pulse. The paddles are in your hands - don't wait for the flat line. I wasn't going to contribute to the QL future debate but Roy's reply (good to hear from you by the way) has prompted me to. If you look at the communities surrounding the old computers, whether they be sinclair, commodore, atari or whatever - in nearly all cases it's the games that keep the computers alive. Yes, there are hardware innovations, but it's nearly always the ability to load games quicker that prompts the development - the div-ide interface for the spectrum springs to mind. People unfamiliar with the QL aren't going to want to try and use a word processor from the 80s when the one installed on their PC is 100 times better. The availability of software is also something that isn't there in the QL community. Search for just about any other 80s computer and you'll find a wealth of software available on the net. The legality of these downloads may be suspect but they're there - search for QL software and what do you find? One or two sites offering compilers and productivity software or asking you to purchase games. The QL is a fairly obscure platform and no one that is unfamiliar with it is going to pay money for something on the off chance that it might be good. There is another problem with QL software - it's fragmented. Some software will run on a basic QL for which you can download an emulator. Other software requires an enhanced system for which you need to either have the hardware to run it or purchase an emulator. For just about every other 80s or 90s computer you can download an emulator that will run all the software for that machine. I think we need to face the fact that the QL is almost a dead machine. People aren't willing to invest money in something if they have no compelling reason to use it and let's face it most people don't even know what the QL is! There are thriving homebrew communities for a lot of the old computers but the QL isn't one of them. Why is this? It's not a money thing, a lot of homebrew software is given away free. Basically there aren't that many people who are bothered about the QL - why write something for the QL when you could write something for the Spectrum and get a wider audience? The QL is a dwindling niche market and while people continue charging not inconsiderable sums for software it will remain that way (until it dwindles into oblivion). Sorry for the rant - I think I've had too many glasses of wine this evening! Regards, Phil The QL market will continue to be smaller than the Spectrum, Commodore or others; as the QL sold less well when it was first introduced. Therefore the customer base is smaller. Yet, potential users will be tempted back in, or new ones introduced by an easy way in. This would need to be through an Emulator - either completely free and workable - or an Emulator on a time period trial, say of 60 days.
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 15/06/2010 21:58, Malcolm Cadman wrote: SNIP There is an audience for retro computers - of which the QL is one. A software package, or easy access to free or low cost software, would be essential to tempt users in. As they need to see something to be done with the system - and will not be interested in finding it all out for themselves. Once interest is kindled, then users will get interested in acquiring original hardware and original add-ons, as well as using the emulator(s) on PC hardware ( or others ). Most users, on this list, are not a part of this target market - as most already have several QL hardware items, and a lot of software; plus long experience. The latter need tempting in a different way, by some new hardware or software, for the 21st Century - as the QL was a 20th Century invention. I have QDT, which I use all of the time as the main desktop for a QL system. Yet it is not finished - the file manager side is not complete; and it lacks a lot of other functionality. I also use Launchpad to compensate for QDT's deficiencies in the file management area. Both Quanta and QL Today could be involved in this type of promotion of the QL. OK - head above the parapet again and , to quote Sir Henry, 'first chink of reality and youre dead' I spent a lot of time, enthusiasm and energy on the QL (not as much as Tony, Dilwyn and Jochen, but enough). The approach of saying 'here is a free emulator, now look at what we have' is fine except...what do we have? The QL was a business computer in concept. Very few games of any note. Right now, as was pointed out earlier, there is no decent word processor and no other, modern, usable, software. QPC2 runs just fine on my W7 machine, but why would I use it? If I was a new user what would make me want to buy it and run it? On my W7 and XP machines I run music software, word processing and spreadsheets, email, photo manipulation and website creation software. What is there on the QL side of things that matches this? The QL was fun to program in SuperBASIC ( I never got any further) and, back 18 years ago, would multitask when most PCs could not (nor can the iPAD), but it was rapidly overtaken by modern hardware and software. What I was saying before still applies. If you want to keep it alive you need to keep the scene alive. You need innovation and you need some sort of commercial operation. I know that there are a whole bumch of 'free software' guerillas out there but no free software has ever matched the commercial stuff - sad as that may be. I will never abandon it completely because it taught me a lot of the fundamental principles of computing. I have a lot of affection for it and for many of the people in the QL community because we did all those shows and we went through all that but you have to take off the rose tinted goggles and take a hard look at what you are promoting - and then decide what you do from here. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Actually, if I unplug the USB and plug it back in, I can normally get Q-emuLator to recognise the disk and format it, but not QPC2. However, once formatted in Q-emuLator, even if QPC2 reports format failed, it will still save to the disk successfully. I wonder if it struggles with the lack of the read-only signal from the drive... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Am Montag, den 14.06.2010, 16:00 +0100 schrieb Rich Mellor: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Hi Rich, probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! I have just successfully formatted a totally new DD floppy disk using QPC2 on Windows Xp. This took a minute. The instruction I gave was: format 'flp1_Dab*D' George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:11, gdgqler wrote: On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! I have just successfully formatted a totally new DD floppy disk using QPC2 on Windows Xp. This took a minute. The instruction I gave was: format 'flp1_Dab*D' George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Oddly enough many years ago, I wrote a small utility which allowed you to set the floppy format to use On SMSQ/e for Super Gold Card, if you did FORMAT 'flp1_test*H' on a High Density disk, or FORMAT 'flp1_test*E' on a Extra Density disk, that worked fine. But if you tried FORMAT 'flp1_test*D' on a Double Density disk after using one of the above commands, the format always failed! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:11, Tobias Fröschle wrote: Am Montag, den 14.06.2010, 16:00 +0100 schrieb Rich Mellor: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Hi Rich, probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Worked fine here with Win XP all the time - with two different USB floppies which I used to bring to the shows in the past 6 or 7 years. Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Rich Mellor wrote, on 14/Jun/10 16:15 | Jun14: I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Indeed. Once I realised it was drive B, despite the fact that there was no other floppy, it worked fine under XP. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:16, Jochen Merz wrote: I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Worked fine here with Win XP all the time - with two different USB floppies which I used to bring to the shows in the past 6 or 7 years. It seems that Windows 7 is not a good idea. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias Seems the most obvious explanation under Windows 7! Looks like Rich has been micro-shafted by M$. Some time ago I reviewed a USB floppy drive for Quanta and it worked brilliantly (albeit under XP) at first. Then mysteriously it started being awkward with DD disks, sometimes it would format correctly, sometimes it wouldn't. (whether using *D or *H) I tried formatting the disks on the Aurora and QL, then reformatting them on the USB drive to see what happened. Reliability improved, but was not perfect, sometimes it would format the disk as a HD even though the disk was DD, probably down to what Rich suggested with the drive sensor (or lack of). The same disks would usually format perfectly on the built in floppy drive on this PC (also XP)! If you manage to find a solution, can you post it here? Would be useful information as more and more people use QL emulators on Windows 7 machines. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:34, Dilwyn Jones wrote: probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias Seems the most obvious explanation under Windows 7! Looks like Rich has been micro-shafted by M$. Some time ago I reviewed a USB floppy drive for Quanta and it worked brilliantly (albeit under XP) at first. Then mysteriously it started being awkward with DD disks, sometimes it would format correctly, sometimes it wouldn't. (whether using *D or *H) I tried formatting the disks on the Aurora and QL, then reformatting them on the USB drive to see what happened. Reliability improved, but was not perfect, sometimes it would format the disk as a HD even though the disk was DD, probably down to what Rich suggested with the drive sensor (or lack of). The same disks would usually format perfectly on the built in floppy drive on this PC (also XP)! If you manage to find a solution, can you post it here? Would be useful information as more and more people use QL emulators on Windows 7 machines. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Well, I've lurked on the list for a while since I hung up the QBranch boots in the closet but recent posts deserve some comment I suppose. I will start with the floppy issue. Way back when I was doing lots of shows I decided that you could not format DD disks under QPC2 on any of my PCs. In fact I brought a QL / Aurora and monitor to many shows just to format disks. Firstly it was far too slow and secondly it failed too often. I was not typing it in at the command line because that was too slow at a show. Formatting was haphazard and took ages. I mentioned it on several occasions and got the usual 'does not happen here' response. Understandably hard to pin down. I did, however, find that formatting the disks using Disk Mate 5 usually worked fine - on all of the systems - so I hazard the guess that it is not a problem with Microsoft but something else. I have have not tried under Windows 7 on this sytem but then it is hardly surprising that the ability to format a 20+ year old disk has been removed from a new system. This is like complaining that your CD player won't play 78s.No one uses floppy disks any more. Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' I was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward with ideas flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) This may all seem a bit harsh but, like a jolt to the heart in teh case case of cardiac arrest, sometimes you need a defibrilator to restore a pulse. The paddles are in your hands - don't wait for the flat line. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Op Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:14:29 +0300 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: Oddly enough many years ago, I wrote a small utility which allowed you to set the floppy format to use On SMSQ/e for Super Gold Card, if you did FORMAT 'flp1_test*H' on a High Density disk, or FORMAT 'flp1_test*E' on a Extra Density disk, that worked fine. But if you tried FORMAT 'flp1_test*D' on a Double Density disk after using one of the above commands, the format always failed! As far as I know formatting DD under SMSQ/E for the Super Gold Card has been broken since version 2.93. Files can be read but writing locks up the machine. I hardly use DD's anymore but if needed, I start my QL or Aurora under QDOS. I even find ED formatting more reliable there. I have never formatted floppies from QPC before but I tested it just now with QPC2 v3.34 Vista to a USB drive. Formatting, writing to and reading from a HD or DD disk went without problems, only a bit slow. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 15/06/2010 00:15, Roy Wood wrote: Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' I was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward with ideas flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) This may all seem a bit harsh but, like a jolt to the heart in teh case case of cardiac arrest, sometimes you need a defibrilator to restore a pulse. The paddles are in your hands - don't wait for the flat line. I wasn't going to contribute to the QL future debate but Roy's reply (good to hear from you by the way) has prompted me to. If you look at the communities surrounding the old computers, whether they be sinclair, commodore, atari or whatever - in nearly all cases it's the games that keep the computers alive. Yes, there are hardware innovations, but it's nearly always the ability to load games quicker that prompts the development - the div-ide interface for the spectrum springs to mind. People unfamiliar with the QL aren't going to want to try and use a word processor from the 80s when the one installed on their PC is 100 times better. The availability of software is also something that isn't there in the QL community. Search for just about any other 80s computer and you'll find a wealth of software available on the net. The legality of these downloads may be suspect but they're there - search for QL software and what do you find? One or two sites offering compilers and productivity software or asking you to purchase games. The QL is a fairly obscure platform and no one that is unfamiliar with it is going to pay money for something on the off chance that it might be good. There is another problem with QL software - it's fragmented. Some software will run on a basic QL for which you can download an emulator. Other software requires an enhanced system for which you need to either have the hardware to run it or purchase an emulator. For just about every other 80s or 90s computer you can download an emulator that will run all the software for that machine. I think we need to face the fact that the QL is almost a dead machine. People aren't willing to invest money in something if they have no compelling reason to use it and let's face it most people don't even know what the QL is! There are thriving homebrew communities for a lot of the old computers but the QL isn't one of them. Why is this? It's not a money thing, a lot of homebrew software is given away free. Basically there aren't that many people who are bothered about the QL - why write something for the QL when you could write something for the Spectrum and get a wider audience? The QL is a dwindling niche market and while people continue charging not inconsiderable sums for software it will remain that way (until it dwindles into oblivion). Sorry for the rant - I think I've had too many glasses of wine this evening! Regards, Phil ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
