The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 335 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: <e34> intermittent factory radio head and main studs (s50) Re: <E30> Parts car haul off Re: Tranny ATF Drain (automatic) Re: Tranny ATF Drain (automatic) Re: <E30> iS rear wing Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc., Calling all engineers... Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:52:22 -0500 From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "John Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: <e34> intermittent factory radio Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John, I had this problem on my factory head unit on my 92 325i. It was the one with the NWS built into it. Mine was accompanied by a strong odor....something like dead fish. When opened, the circuit board had several leaking electrolytic capacitors (hence the smell). The caps were replaced and the unit worked fine. Then my trunk mounted CD player went on the fritz and was skipping constantly so I finally elected to replace the head unit with a Blaupunkt New Orleans with integrated CD player. I've been happy with that so far and the lights "almost" match the BMW amber. Good luck with your radio. Phil Irby 92 325i ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: [UUC] <e34> intermittent factory radio > My factory radio is occasionally loosing sound. The > display stays lit and all other functions seem to > work, but I get no sound from either radio stations or > cassette. Sometimes it will come back on right away > and sometimes it won't work for 10 - 15 minutes. What > should I check first? > > This is a '93 525i with factory radio, amp, and > speakers. > > John > > ===== > end > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ________________________________________________________________________ __ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:10:59 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Club-Racing-List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Trackjunkies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: head and main studs (s50) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry for the cross post Finally putting my frankenmotor together. I want to use studs for the head and crank mains vice the stock BMW parts. "off the shelf" aftermarket studs list an M50 application. I am assuming that will work in an S50 - anyone know for sure. Marco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:36:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> Parts car haul off Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah. They'll probably give you between one and two cents a pound depending on the local market and how generous they're feeling on any given day so don't make any big plans for the money - it might cover your gas for the trip there and back. Of course the primary objective in this case is to get rid of the carcass. Now if you've got a few pounds of copper then it's more likely to be worth your while to make a trip to the metal salvage. More like 40 cents a pound last time I checked. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Aug 25, 2004 5:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] <E30> Parts car haul off Hmmm, Around here you simply take it to a scrape metal yard and THEY PAY YOU for the metal, lol. I have hauled more than a couple to a metal yard. They weigh you coming in and going out, then pay for the difference. Doesn't work out to be much, but sure is better than paying them money for something they are going to make money on also. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:44:38 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tranny ATF Drain (automatic) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John, Sorry, I should clarify the concept..... I would place a tube of sufficient ID to seal against the ATF fill tube such that I could pull a vacuum and draw the fluid into the container. I'm wondering if this is feasible. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:35:42 -0700 From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tranny ATF Drain (automatic) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 10:44:38AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > John, > > Sorry, I should clarify the concept..... > > I would place a tube of sufficient ID to seal against the ATF fill tube > such that I could pull a vacuum and draw the fluid into the container. I'm > wondering if this is feasible. An interesting idea, but the last transmission I looked in didn't have the dipstick tube going all the way to the bottom of the pan. It only went low enough so that the end of the dipstick was aimed at the correct place to measure fluid height. Suction on the dipstick tube itself would result in very little / maybe no fluid being removed. Hmm, actually, the last transmission I was in (my BMW's), there was no dipstick tube. The Nissan transmission I was in before that had a dipstick tube, but it did not get very close to the bottom of the pan. Sounds like you just don't want to deal with the huge mess of removing a tranny pan without a drain plug. Can't say I blame you. :) But the big $3 under-bed storage bin from Target makes a helluva catch pan! And while you've got it open, you can replace the filter too. And if you're going that far, you might as well unhook the cooler lines and flush the old fluid out of the torque converter as well to accomplish a pretty-much full fluid change. -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:21:32 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[uucdigest]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, bmw digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: <E30> iS rear wing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Btw if you turn an E30 rear spoiler around front to back, it makes a nice fit on a 2002. Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Anyone know how the stock E30 325iS wing is attached to the trunk? > >-Kevin > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:34:57 -0400 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil, Are you happy with the spring rate of the current springs? If so, you could simply cut off the desired amount of the current spring to attain the desired ride height. It's a little crude, but rather effective and certainly cheap. I'm not absolutely certain of the traditional e36 rear motion ratio. I've heard it is 0.65 from someone who actually measured it, but never having measured it on the car myself I can't substantiate that number. The motion ratio is the ratio of vertical movement of the wheel compared to the relative movement between spring perches. Wheel movement/Spring movement = 0.65 So, if the ride height changed by 1", you're looking at 0.65" of spring travel. Therefore, to change the ride height by that much, you need a spring of equal rate 0.65" shorter. If you were to cut 0.65" from the free length of the current springs, you'd be in the ball park. Change rates and it becomes a little more complicated, but I've done these calculations many times for the e30 rear suspension. The concept is identical, just slightly different numbers. A good source (with different motion ratios, but same concept) is Gustave's page: http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/susp-tech/eff_rate/eff_rate.ht m This describes effective wheel rate determination and motion ratios for the e30. Good stuff to read and understand. As for coil binding.....that depends on what static ride height you want to use, and the amount of travel you anticipate to support those 650lbs under all conditions. The factory springs on my e30 style rear suspension are of a bee-hive design (albeit a mostly linear spring rate) which is I presume to increase the spring travel before coil-bind occurs. You can obtain from the spring manufacturer, the max compression of the spring you choose. Then, with the motion ratio you can calculate how much wheel travel that translates to and determine if the bump stop or the spring will hit first. Stiffer springs have both a shorter working range and require less movement to support the same weight. Let me know if you have additional questions, I can try to walk you through the calculations. Picking rates however can become a little more complicated. That's what I'm working on now! :) Chet Dawes > -----Original Message----- > E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. > Subject: > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Group, > > After removing a few hundred pounds from my E36 coupe, > the rear of the car has risen up on the springs (H&R > sports) about an inch or so, and has affected the > rake, weight distribution and center of gravity. The > solution is to get shorter 60mm springs with ride > height adjusters, but my problem is that I'm unsure > if, say, a 5" tall spring at a rate comparable to the > H&R sports (350 lb/in) would experience coil bind, > either in motion or at rest. I have about 650 lbs on > each rear wheel, but I know there's some "motion > ratio" that amplifies that weight at the spring. > > What are some of the lighter spring rates folks are > using? Would going to a 6" tall spring help this > situation, or would my ride height then still be too > high? Please help... I'm desperate, but don't want > to shell out the coin for a full coilover setup with > 500+ lb spring rates (yet). > > Thanks, > > Neil > **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc., Calling all engineers... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Chet, et al, Thanks very much for the input. If anyone still cares, please take a look at the following link: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2755067#post2755067 I posted the same question here, and just added my own little technical ideas based on some information from the H&R Germany website. I know we have some very smart engineer-types here, and I would love to have you guys poke holes in my CPA-brained theories. PS - I didn't think you could cut down beehive springs? Thanks, Neil --- "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Neil, > Are you happy with the spring rate of the current > springs? If so, you > could simply cut off the desired amount of the > current spring to attain > the desired ride height. It's a little crude, but > rather effective and > certainly cheap. > I'm not absolutely certain of the traditional e36 > rear motion ratio. > I've heard it is 0.65 from someone who actually > measured it, but never > having measured it on the car myself I can't > substantiate that number. > The motion ratio is the ratio of vertical movement > of the wheel compared > to the relative movement between spring perches. > > Wheel movement/Spring movement = 0.65 > > So, if the ride height changed by 1", you're looking > at 0.65" of spring > travel. Therefore, to change the ride height by > that much, you need a > spring of equal rate 0.65" shorter. If you were to > cut 0.65" from the > free length of the current springs, you'd be in the > ball park. Change > rates and it becomes a little more complicated, but > I've done these > calculations many times for the e30 rear suspension. > The concept is > identical, just slightly different numbers. A good > source (with > different motion ratios, but same concept) is > Gustave's page: > http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/susp-tech/eff_rate/eff_rate.ht > m > > This describes effective wheel rate determination > and motion ratios for > the e30. Good stuff to read and understand. > > As for coil binding.....that depends on what static > ride height you want > to use, and the amount of travel you anticipate to > support those 650lbs > under all conditions. The factory springs on my e30 > style rear > suspension are of a bee-hive design (albeit a mostly > linear spring rate) > which is I presume to increase the spring travel > before coil-bind > occurs. You can obtain from the spring > manufacturer, the max > compression of the spring you choose. Then, with > the motion ratio you > can calculate how much wheel travel that translates > to and determine if > the bump stop or the spring will hit first. Stiffer > springs have both a > shorter working range and require less movement to > support the same > weight. > > Let me know if you have additional questions, I can > try to walk you > through the calculations. Picking rates however can > become a little > more complicated. That's what I'm working on now! > :) > > > Chet Dawes > > > -----Original Message----- > > E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. > > Subject: > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Group, > > > > After removing a few hundred pounds from my E36 > coupe, > > the rear of the car has risen up on the springs > (H&R > > sports) about an inch or so, and has affected the > > rake, weight distribution and center of gravity. > The > > solution is to get shorter 60mm springs with ride > > height adjusters, but my problem is that I'm > unsure > > if, say, a 5" tall spring at a rate comparable to > the > > H&R sports (350 lb/in) would experience coil bind, > > either in motion or at rest. I have about 650 lbs > on > > each rear wheel, but I know there's some "motion > > ratio" that amplifies that weight at the spring. > > > > What are some of the lighter spring rates folks > are > > using? Would going to a 6" tall spring help this > > situation, or would my ride height then still be > too > > high? Please help... I'm desperate, but don't > want > > to shell out the coin for a full coilover setup > with > > 500+ lb spring rates (yet). > > > > Thanks, > > > > Neil > > > > **************************************************************************************** > > Note: The information contained in this message may > be privileged and confidential and thus protected > from disclosure. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to the message and > deleting it from your computer. Thank you. > > **************************************************************************************** > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:00:02 -0700 From: "Damon at gmx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil, Cutting the spring will result in making the spring stiffer. If you want to keep the spring rate equal to what you have but with a lower ride height, you need to get a new spring with the same diameter wire and coil and same number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. -Damon '94 325i '95 993 ----- Original Message ----- From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. > > Neil, > Are you happy with the spring rate of the current springs? If so, you > could simply cut off the desired amount of the current spring to attain > the desired ride height. It's a little crude, but rather effective and > certainly cheap. <snip>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:20:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that? :-) Neil --- Damon at gmx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Neil, > > Cutting the spring will result in making the spring > stiffer. If you want to > keep the spring rate equal to what you have but with > a lower ride height, > you need to get a new spring with the same diameter > wire and coil and same > number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. > > -Damon > '94 325i > '95 993 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 rear ride height, race spring > rates, etc. > > > > > > Neil, > > Are you happy with the spring rate of the current > springs? If so, you > > could simply cut off the desired amount of the > current spring to attain > > the desired ride height. It's a little crude, but > rather effective and > > certainly cheap. > <snip>> > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:42:08 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If I am not mistaken, several different companies would make custom springs. I have seen sets of H&R and Eibach that were special ordered for spring rates. No idea on price but was told by the clubracer it was only a few hundred more for the set. Mike And yes, it is next to impossible to cut rear bee hive springs for a E36. Fronts easy, rears not going to happen. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil N. -> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 3:21 PM -> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. -> -> -> Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that? -> -> :-) -> -> Neil -> -> --- Damon at gmx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -> -> > Neil, -> > -> > Cutting the spring will result in making the spring -> > stiffer. If you want to -> > keep the spring rate equal to what you have but with -> > a lower ride height, -> > you need to get a new spring with the same diameter -> > wire and coil and same -> > number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. -> > -> > -Damon -> > '94 325i -> > '95 993 -> > -> > -> > -> > ----- Original Message ----- -> > From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -> > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:34 AM -> > Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 rear ride height, race spring -> > rates, etc. -> > -> > -> > > -> > > Neil, -> > > Are you happy with the spring rate of the current -> > springs? If so, you -> > > could simply cut off the desired amount of the -> > current spring to attain -> > > the desired ride height. It's a little crude, but -> > rather effective and -> > > certainly cheap. -> > <snip>> -> > -> > -> > Search the -> > -> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> > -> > -> > -> _____________________________________________________________ -> _____________ -> > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, -> > founder of the BMW CCA. -> > -> > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and -> > home of the Ultimate -> > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! -> > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com -> > -> -> -> -> -> __________________________________ -> Do you Yahoo!? -> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. -> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -> Search the -> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> -> -> _____________________________________________________________ -> _____________ -> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of -> the BMW CCA. -> -> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the -> Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 -> . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com -> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:02:07 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Better way with non-concentric shapes is to torch the end coils to nearly red hot. A home MAPP gas torch is sufficient for this. Then put on heavy leather work gloves and hold the opposite end of the spring. Press down against a hard flat surface. That will collapse the soft ends of the spring without affecting the heavy thicker middle coils. So the spring rates under heavy loads remain the same, only the rate for the first few cm or so of compression gets stiffer. For the front springs, use the upper spring cup to collapse the upper coil end down so it touches the coil below it. That gives ~1.5cm lower height, a flat seating surface, with slightly higher overall rate. To make the job look clean and professional, clean the spring where you just burned the paint by torching it, and spray a few light coats of Krylon glossy black. I'm not recommending anyone try to pass these off as stock springs. However this method will result in a shorter but stock appearing spring that gives a greater effective rate. If the car now sits lower than you want, use thicker stock spring pads to bring the ride heights back up. Barry Neil N. wrote: > <>Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that?:-) > Neil > --- Damon at gmx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Neil, > Cutting the spring will result in making the spring > stiffer. If you want to keep the spring rate equal to what you have > but with > a lower ride height,you need to get a new spring with the same diameter > wire and coil and same number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. > -Damon '94 325i '95 993 > <><><>Neil, Are you happy with the spring rate of the current > springs? If so, you could simply cut off the desired amount of the > current spring to attain the desired ride height. It's a little crude, > but<> rather effective and certainly cheap.<snip>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:30:31 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -> -----Original Message----- -> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of chet.dawes -> Neil, -> Are you happy with the spring rate of the current springs? -> If so, you could simply cut off the desired amount of the -> current spring to attain the desired ride height. By cutting the spring, you are increasing the spring rate. Without doing measurements, one cannnot say to how much, but it will be different. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:42:30 US/Mountain From: Peter Guagenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil -- 5" springs are definitely too short for the application. 6" springs are better, and 7" springs will result in a ride height more akin to what you had before. All that said, I would actually posit that coilover-style springs probably are not the best way to go with the shocks you probably have. Even if you match a spring rate to the shocks you've been using (or vice-versa, pairing them is the most important change to make), the height of the shock means that at full droop the spring will pop out of place completely. This is why the "kits" all have matched shorter shocks in the rear. A better bet may be to buy yourself a set of H&R race springs. If I remember correctly, the spring rates are very close to the sports, with ride height being the primary difference. You could try the rear springs only and see if that gives you the rake you were looking for, or you can try them both and see if that's a better choice. I know my comments aren't very scientific, but I figured I'd offer another perspective. Your best bet is to call Jay Morris at Ground Control and tell him what you are trying to do. IMO, Jay knows more about E36 suspension tuning than any other aftermarket retailer and will be able to help you figure out what will work best. As an aside, he's got an ITS 325 that he just built and tuned that is _amazingly_ quick. -peter*g ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(14 messages) **********
